Post by: twistedsymphony on September 30, 2005, 01:47:00 PM
CODE
CD DVD HD-DVD Blu-Ray
Capacity per layer 0.6GB 4.7GB 15GB 25GB
Current Number of Layers 1 2 2 1
Current Max Capacity 0.6GB 8.5GB 30GB 25GB
Potential Max Number of Layers 1 2 2 2
Potential Max Capacity 0.6GB 8.5GB 30GB 50GB
Max Number of Sides 1 2 2 1
Max Capacity Layers and Sides 0.6GB 17.0GB 60GB 50GB
Average Transfer Rate per Speed (X) 1.2Mbps 11.1Mbps 36.5Mbps 36.0Mbps
Current Max Speed 48x 16x 1.5x 1.5x
Current Max Transfer Rate 58.9Mbps 177.3Mbps 55.0Mbps 54.0Mbps
Potential Max Speed 48x 16X 9X 12X
Potential Max Transfer Rate 58.9Mbps 177.3Mbps 328.5Mbps 432.0Mbps
Speed type 1.2, CLV 4.0, CLV 6.5, CAV 4.9, CAV
Laser Color infrared Red Blue-Violet Blue-Violet
Laser Wavelength 780nm 650nm 405nm 405nm
Numeracal aperture 0.45 0.6 0.65 0.85
Max Accecptable Read Power 0.65mW 0.60mW 0.50mW 0.35mW
Track Pitch 1.60µm 0.74µm 0.40µm 0.32µm
min. pit length 850nm 400nm 204nm 149nm
Base Layer Thickness 1.2mm 0.6mm 0.6mm 1.1mm
Protective Layer Thickness N/A 0.6mm 0.6mm 0.1mm
total Disc thickness 1.2mm 1.2mm 1.2mm 1.2mm
Disc Diameter 120mm 120mm 120mm 120mm
Backward Compatable N/A YES YES YES
Forward Compatable NO NO YES YES
BC Complexity (hardware based) N/A Simple Simple Complex
FC Complexity (media based) N/A N/A Complex Simple
Manufacturing Time Per Disc/Layer 0.3sec 0.6sec 1.4sec 4.5sec
Manufacturing Equipment Existing Existing Existing New
Video Compression N/A MPEG-2 MPEG-2, MPEG-2,
MPEG-4 AVC, MPEG-4 AVC,
VC-1(WMV-9) VC-1(WMV-9)
Technology Partners N/A N/A Toshiba Sony
NEC Apple
Sanyo Dell
Memory-Tech HP
MS Hitachi
LG
Matsushita (Panasonic)
Mitsubishi
Philips
Pioneer
Samsung
Sharp
TDK
Thomson
Capacity per layer 0.6GB 4.7GB 15GB 25GB
Current Number of Layers 1 2 2 1
Current Max Capacity 0.6GB 8.5GB 30GB 25GB
Potential Max Number of Layers 1 2 2 2
Potential Max Capacity 0.6GB 8.5GB 30GB 50GB
Max Number of Sides 1 2 2 1
Max Capacity Layers and Sides 0.6GB 17.0GB 60GB 50GB
Average Transfer Rate per Speed (X) 1.2Mbps 11.1Mbps 36.5Mbps 36.0Mbps
Current Max Speed 48x 16x 1.5x 1.5x
Current Max Transfer Rate 58.9Mbps 177.3Mbps 55.0Mbps 54.0Mbps
Potential Max Speed 48x 16X 9X 12X
Potential Max Transfer Rate 58.9Mbps 177.3Mbps 328.5Mbps 432.0Mbps
Speed type 1.2, CLV 4.0, CLV 6.5, CAV 4.9, CAV
Laser Color infrared Red Blue-Violet Blue-Violet
Laser Wavelength 780nm 650nm 405nm 405nm
Numeracal aperture 0.45 0.6 0.65 0.85
Max Accecptable Read Power 0.65mW 0.60mW 0.50mW 0.35mW
Track Pitch 1.60µm 0.74µm 0.40µm 0.32µm
min. pit length 850nm 400nm 204nm 149nm
Base Layer Thickness 1.2mm 0.6mm 0.6mm 1.1mm
Protective Layer Thickness N/A 0.6mm 0.6mm 0.1mm
total Disc thickness 1.2mm 1.2mm 1.2mm 1.2mm
Disc Diameter 120mm 120mm 120mm 120mm
Backward Compatable N/A YES YES YES
Forward Compatable NO NO YES YES
BC Complexity (hardware based) N/A Simple Simple Complex
FC Complexity (media based) N/A N/A Complex Simple
Manufacturing Time Per Disc/Layer 0.3sec 0.6sec 1.4sec 4.5sec
Manufacturing Equipment Existing Existing Existing New
Video Compression N/A MPEG-2 MPEG-2, MPEG-2,
MPEG-4 AVC, MPEG-4 AVC,
VC-1(WMV-9) VC-1(WMV-9)
Technology Partners N/A N/A Toshiba Sony
NEC Apple
Sanyo Dell
Memory-Tech HP
MS Hitachi
LG
Matsushita (Panasonic)
Mitsubishi
Philips
Pioneer
Samsung
Sharp
TDK
Thomson
There seems to be a lot of confusion about the true differences between DVD HD-DVD and Blu-Ray so I've it up a whole ton of technical sites and created the comparison chart below... each format has it's benefits and pitfalls and I was sure to include the difference between what the formats are doing NOW in prototype form and what the format owner things they MIGHT be able to do over the next couple of years as the technology advances.
Some of the values I couldn't find but was able to calculate with the other information I had.
Please let me know if you find any inaccuracies and I'll be happy to update it
This post has been edited by twistedsymphony: Sep 30 2005, 09:34 PM
Post by: Reaper527 on September 30, 2005, 02:18:00 PM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Sep 30 2005, 09:51 PM)
[code] CD DVD HD-DVD Blu-Ray
Disc Diamerter 120mm 120mm 120mm 120mm
Please let me know if you find any inaccuracies and I'll be happy to update it
Disc Diamerter 120mm 120mm 120mm 120mm
Please let me know if you find any inaccuracies and I'll be happy to update it
not really an inaccuracy, but just though i would point out you had a typo on diameter
Post by: twistedsymphony on September 30, 2005, 02:34:00 PM
QUOTE(Reaper527 @ Sep 30 2005, 04:22 PM)
not really an inaccuracy, but just though i would point out you had a typo on diameter
thanks :beer:
Post by: TheProfessional on September 30, 2005, 03:49:00 PM
Post by: mgamer20o0 on September 30, 2005, 04:22:00 PM
Post by: redwolf on September 30, 2005, 04:58:00 PM
good comparison
Post by: CattyKid on September 30, 2005, 09:00:00 PM
Also, a quick little correction, max capacity for CDs is about 700mb.
And, also, what happenned to the 200gb Blue Ray Discs that they were talking about a while ago. Thought that was the max, but that was a WHILE ago, maybe 4 months. Guess they found it to be impractical/not possible?
Post by: Charbless on October 01, 2005, 12:58:00 PM
Post by: Bogus8 on October 01, 2005, 02:01:00 PM
QUOTE(Charbless @ Oct 1 2005, 02:02 PM)
you can get cds that store 90min and 99min which have 800mb also a normal dvd 4.7gb is only 1 layer in that chart it seize its 2 layers which its only 2 layers if its over 4.7gb
What the waggle? We are talking about standards, not what *can* be done with some software and over burn blah blah blah... show some whitepapers saying this is manfacturing specs.
anyway the chart says "capacity per layer" 4.7 then when you look at max capacity it has the full 8.5. :rolleyes:
This post has been edited by Bogus8: Oct 1 2005, 09:03 PM
Post by: Charbless on October 02, 2005, 08:18:00 AM
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 02, 2005, 10:56:00 AM
QUOTE(Charbless @ Oct 2 2005, 06:22 AM)
Ok Mr smart ass if you want to go on about standards then really dvdr isnt 4.7gb do the maths so 8.5gb dual layer is wrong aswell then also standard cdr size now then is 702mb.
Those would be specifics... not standards. He was merely saying that a 800mb cd is not a standard in the indusrty. (Although neither was a 700mb when CD-R came out.... 650mb was what I remember... but that was consumer)
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 02, 2005, 05:06:00 PM
blank media doesn't factor into this...
Don't make me have to clean the flames out of my own thread...
If you disagree with what I've posed please post a link to some official paperwork that says otherwise and I will be more than happy to change it.
Post by: CattyKid on October 02, 2005, 06:38:00 PM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Oct 2 2005, 07:17 PM)
I'm going by white paper standards for PRESSED MEDIA
blank media doesn't factor into this...
Don't make me have to clean the flames out of my own thread...
If you disagree with what I've posed please post a link to some official paperwork that says otherwise and I will be more than happy to change it.
blank media doesn't factor into this...
Don't make me have to clean the flames out of my own thread...
If you disagree with what I've posed please post a link to some official paperwork that says otherwise and I will be more than happy to change it.
Sorry. My bad, didn't think it was just for pressed media.
Post by: mastergwaha on October 02, 2005, 11:06:00 PM
Post by: joerehall on October 03, 2005, 09:49:00 PM
QUOTE(mastergwaha @ Oct 2 2005, 10:17 PM)
i've also heard reports of toshiba trying to integrate a triple layer HD-DVD. sounds like fun!
http://www.physorg.com/news4052.html
i really do hope hd-dvd wins the war.. right now they can do a triple layer disc that holds 45 gb and then on the other side it would be a normal single or dual layer dvd called a hybrid disc... that would make it possible for MS to release the 360 with a hddvd drive later on and release all games on a hybrid disc so either way you get the game be it on hd-dvd or dvd
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 05, 2005, 06:40:00 AM
Post by: Bogus8 on October 05, 2005, 02:58:00 PM
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 05, 2005, 03:44:00 PM
QUOTE(Bogus8 @ Oct 5 2005, 01:09 PM)
I disagree with the concept of vhs to dvd is less of an upgrade then dvd9 to hd-dvd or blueray... I mean do you really think hd or BR is gonna sell as fast as dvd's did?-
Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 05, 2005, 04:08:00 PM
-
But I don't think they will resample a dvd I think they will re-encode from the original film.
It's also harder to justify the upgrade from dvd to hd-dvd (not just cause of the tv) but also because "we have a great picture now and a great collection and it will last "forever"" vs from vhs where you had no more rewinding and menus and can skip around and they stay "like new"
-
Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: mgamer20o0 on October 05, 2005, 04:33:00 PM
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Post by: Bogus8 on October 05, 2005, 04:08:00 PM
But I don't think they will resample a dvd I think they will re-encode from the original film.
It's also harder to justify the upgrade from dvd to hd-dvd (not just cause of the tv) but also because "we have a great picture now and a great collection and it will last "forever"" vs from vhs where you had no more rewinding and menus and can skip around and they stay "like new"
Post by: mgamer20o0 on October 05, 2005, 04:33:00 PM
QUOTE(Bogus8 @ Oct 5 2005, 11:09 PM)
But I disagree with the concept of vhs to dvd is less of an upgrade then dvd9 to hd-dvd or blueray...
-
Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 05, 2005, 04:54:00 PM
-
still going from tape that wears out and is magnetic to an optical digital system is a pretty massive technological leap. Yes digital is NOT HD but it SMOKES vhs by a LONG shot.
-
Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 05, 2005, 08:56:00 PM
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Post by: Bogus8 on October 05, 2005, 04:54:00 PM
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 05, 2005, 08:56:00 PM
QUOTE(Bogus8 @ Oct 5 2005, 02:19 PM)
But I don't think they will resample a dvd I think they will re-encode from the original film.
-
Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 05, 2005, 09:13:00 PM
-
I was speaking purely about the quality of the source media in it's final commercial format.
My place of work, and the gym I go to people generally ask me technical questions about home theater stuff...
Quite frequently I get asked "which HDTV should I buy?" my first question is always "why do you want an HDTV?" to which 99% of the time I get "so I can watch my DVD in HD."
At that point it turns into a discussion about how DVDs are not HD and that there are no HD DVD formats out yet.
To the average Joe ignorant consumer there is little to no difference between DVDs today and the next gen DVD formats... most think that their DVDs right now are HD. Most are completely capable of seeing the difference between ED and HD video. (Heck ask any HDTV owner which channels look better) But unless they experience it first hand, and side by side with current formats they're going to keep on thinking that DVDs today are just dandy, even for their HD sets.
Toshiba and Sony should be educating people about the differences in all the new technologies rather than fighting for technical supporters... who cares how many companies they have behind them if they both have absolutely ZERO mind-share with the consumers.
DVD took years to reach the point it's at today, and the difference was easy to see, especially because it was a similar change from cassettes to CDs, people understood the differences between analog tapes and digital discs....
But I don't think the next gen formats are going to take off anytime soon. MS has nothing to worry about because I don't think there will be much market penetration before the NEXT next gen consoles anyway.
I expect the next gen DVD formats to take off only slightly better than the SACD and DVD-A formats, if only because there are more movie buffs than Audiophiles and Sony will be virtually distributing Blu-Ray players with their PS3s.
-
Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 05, 2005, 09:56:00 PM
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 06, 2005, 12:23:00 AM
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Post by: twistedsymphony on October 05, 2005, 09:13:00 PM
My place of work, and the gym I go to people generally ask me technical questions about home theater stuff...
Quite frequently I get asked "which HDTV should I buy?" my first question is always "why do you want an HDTV?" to which 99% of the time I get "so I can watch my DVD in HD."
At that point it turns into a discussion about how DVDs are not HD and that there are no HD DVD formats out yet.
To the average Joe ignorant consumer there is little to no difference between DVDs today and the next gen DVD formats... most think that their DVDs right now are HD. Most are completely capable of seeing the difference between ED and HD video. (Heck ask any HDTV owner which channels look better) But unless they experience it first hand, and side by side with current formats they're going to keep on thinking that DVDs today are just dandy, even for their HD sets.
Toshiba and Sony should be educating people about the differences in all the new technologies rather than fighting for technical supporters... who cares how many companies they have behind them if they both have absolutely ZERO mind-share with the consumers.
DVD took years to reach the point it's at today, and the difference was easy to see, especially because it was a similar change from cassettes to CDs, people understood the differences between analog tapes and digital discs....
But I don't think the next gen formats are going to take off anytime soon. MS has nothing to worry about because I don't think there will be much market penetration before the NEXT next gen consoles anyway.
I expect the next gen DVD formats to take off only slightly better than the SACD and DVD-A formats, if only because there are more movie buffs than Audiophiles and Sony will be virtually distributing Blu-Ray players with their PS3s.
Post by: Bogus8 on October 05, 2005, 09:56:00 PM
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 06, 2005, 12:23:00 AM
QUOTE(Bogus8 @ Oct 5 2005, 08:07 PM)
Outlaw333: But you say movies aren't HD... there is no such thing as HD 35mm film... I *think* 35mm film is better than HD digital format... only a few hollywood peeps are shooting in HD (Rodriguez being one big name) and he's very anti film pro digital (which is great for us poor film makers that can't afford even 16mm). I think if they dumped the 35mm to HD it would be just as good as anything recorded in native HD (maybe better) this is pretty much speculation as I have know actual knowledge of these claims... but it's what I have gathered from the few things I have read.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 06, 2005, 01:00:00 AM
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for SURE Sin City was.. you are correct about DOF and such with digital but HD chips are larger and that is the main problem with DOF is that 1/3" CCD chips just aren't big enough.. vs 35mm! HD is taking it to 2/3" still not close to 35mm but it's much better and if you have big budget lighting you can still get great DOF. And grain is in the same catagory bigger chips = more light hitting them as I'm sure you know since you seem to have a pretty good grasp on the technology.
A side not there is a new "gadget" called Micro35 that allows you to slap on a 35mm lens and it projects on to a "ground glass" and then your dv cam caputers that image... with this device you can get DOF equal to 35mm since that's what your really capturing. It's really impressive and fairly cheap... we have on on the list... just trying to squeeze it into the budget
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: luther349 on October 06, 2005, 02:31:00 AM
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well i have been studing the new formats for some time now. yes some people said dvd wouldent beat vhs lol of course i laughed at them couse i knew it was far better. but now im onthe side of dvd whont get beat by hd-dvd blue ray for many reasions and not all in the specs. yes its more storage but whont be the needs of most people 8.5 gb is fine hell 4.6 is fine. in fact many people still havent even gone form cdr to dvdr. i would say 80% of the activ pcs out there still only have cdr drives. and noone i knoe even has a hd-tv some people simply dont like the format o joke my frends all think hd looks streched out. of course the pure lack of pure hd content is the blame there or simply the last 30 years of cart has just become common.
vhs to dvd was a huge step foward tech and qualty wise. but look how old vhs was befor it was finnly killed. and dont say other formats didnt try to replace it befor dvd there where a few and people just stuck to what they liked. like i said dvd simply blew them away. hd-dvd will not have the same effect its not a big step foward well maybe in the tech wise but for the other things the diffrence will not be enough to make people jump out and get it
what im saying is yes new tech is great but vhs was 20 years old befor people finnly let it go. its to soon for a new format and for those that do buy it they will quickly catch on its also to restrictiv. simply couse we havent smashed down a few rights killing laws yet and the companys havent figured out drm will not work. ok maybe it did for apple but only couse it lets you copy unlike the rest of the scams.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: joerehall on October 06, 2005, 04:46:00 AM
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Post by: Bogus8 on October 06, 2005, 01:00:00 AM
for SURE Sin City was.. you are correct about DOF and such with digital but HD chips are larger and that is the main problem with DOF is that 1/3" CCD chips just aren't big enough.. vs 35mm! HD is taking it to 2/3" still not close to 35mm but it's much better and if you have big budget lighting you can still get great DOF. And grain is in the same catagory bigger chips = more light hitting them as I'm sure you know since you seem to have a pretty good grasp on the technology.A side not there is a new "gadget" called Micro35 that allows you to slap on a 35mm lens and it projects on to a "ground glass" and then your dv cam caputers that image... with this device you can get DOF equal to 35mm since that's what your really capturing. It's really impressive and fairly cheap... we have on on the list... just trying to squeeze it into the budget
Post by: luther349 on October 06, 2005, 02:31:00 AM
vhs to dvd was a huge step foward tech and qualty wise. but look how old vhs was befor it was finnly killed. and dont say other formats didnt try to replace it befor dvd there where a few and people just stuck to what they liked. like i said dvd simply blew them away. hd-dvd will not have the same effect its not a big step foward well maybe in the tech wise but for the other things the diffrence will not be enough to make people jump out and get it
what im saying is yes new tech is great but vhs was 20 years old befor people finnly let it go. its to soon for a new format and for those that do buy it they will quickly catch on its also to restrictiv. simply couse we havent smashed down a few rights killing laws yet and the companys havent figured out drm will not work. ok maybe it did for apple but only couse it lets you copy unlike the rest of the scams.
Post by: joerehall on October 06, 2005, 04:46:00 AM
QUOTE(luther349 @ Oct 5 2005, 04:12 AM)
2 sided disk tend to be more of a hasel then anything. simple scraching wyther side = death of cd. single sided are a bit more protected.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 06, 2005, 01:03:00 PM
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Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 06, 2005, 01:03:00 PM
QUOTE(luther349 @ Oct 6 2005, 12:42 AM)
...but now im onthe side of dvd whont get beat by hd-dvd blue ray for many reasions and not all in the specs. yes its more storage but whont be the needs of most people 8.5 gb is fine hell 4.6 is fine. in fact many people still havent even gone form cdr to dvdr. i would say 80% of the activ pcs out there still only have cdr drives. and noone i knoe even has a hd-tv some people simply dont like the format o joke my frends all think hd looks streched out. of course the pure lack of pure hd content is the blame there or simply the last 30 years of cart has just become common.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 07, 2005, 03:42:00 AM
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I think (and hope) he was making a joke and fun of his friends that think that.. that's how I took it. But honestly everyone I know that has a 16:9 tv runs it that way. They usually have no HD channels but run their tv that way.. it's SO annoying... guess they want "their money's worth" cause you sure can't convince them that it's fucked up.... either that or it makes them feel better about themselves.. look at how fat Kate Moss is on that tv! (ok she would only look normal )
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 07, 2005, 02:33:00 PM
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As if there were enough types of new media coming out:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9618578/
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 07, 2005, 02:51:00 PM
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"Remember, any government big enough to give you everything you need is big enough to take away everything you have"
guess this is true with countries/manfactures that you exploit in china too... I think it would be awesome if big corporations dependancy on china came back to bite them on the ass!!
BTW, I read an industry mag (Broadcast Engineering) that said the switch to HD broadcast has been moved from jan 1 2006 to jan 1 2009 and that there is talk of a free set top box to "ease" transition and/or a $250 credit towards the purchase of a new tv... glad that fcc is really looking out for the people
now not only will they pocket millions in selling that spectrum we have to pay for the conversion, not just upfront but with tax dollars. Guess that's how the rich get richer and we keep sliding closer towards poverty everyday.
-
Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 07, 2005, 10:20:00 PM
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Post by: Bogus8 on October 07, 2005, 03:42:00 AM
)
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 07, 2005, 02:33:00 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9618578/
QUOTE
China to develop its own DVD format
Announced next-generation standard based on HD DVD
Updated: 8:41 a.m. ET Oct. 7, 2005
SHANGHAI, China - For the second time in two years, China has announced plans to develop its own next-generation DVD standard to break the monopoly of foreign companies and avoid paying heavy licensing fees.
If successful, the move could add a new wrinkle to the battle between HD DVD and the competing Blu-ray Disc formats over which will become the dominant new DVD standard.
The official Xinhua News Agency said the new standard will be based on but incompatible with HD DVD, which is being promoted by Toshiba Corp. and Universal Studios, as well as Intel Corp. and MS Corp., the leading suppliers of chips and software for most of the world's personal computers.
The Chinese standard, not expected to reach markets until at least 2008, would provide higher definition, better sound and better anti-piracy measures, Xinhua quoted Lu Da, deputy director of the government-affiliated National Disc Engineering Center, as saying earlier this week.
"With such format and related standards," Lu said, "We could have our own voice in the DVD industry."
The announcement marks China's latest attempt to leverage its manufacturing muscle to play by its own terms in the home video market. Up to 80 percent of DVD players are made in China, but makers have to cough up around 40 percent of the cost of each player to license holders, according to Chinese reports.
China began developing its own DVD standard in 1999, rolling out EVD, or enhanced versatile disc, in November 2003 with a vow to shake off dependence on foreign standards. Despite strong government backing, the initiative fizzled amid a legal battle between the technology's developer and a consortium of Chinese player manufacturers. Protoype EVD players were introduced in 2004 but never established a presence in the market.
Xinhua didn't give a name for the new HD DVD-based standard, and it wasn't clear whether it had borrowed technology from the EVD standard. No directory listing could be obtained for the National Disc Engineering Center on Friday, which was a holiday in China.
HD DVD's backers say they have made inroads with Chinese manufacturers, whose support is vital to quickly deploying the technology at a low price.
Blu-ray is backed by Sony Corp., Apple Computer Inc., Hewlett-Packard Co. and Dell Inc., along with a variety of other tech companies and studios.
Announced next-generation standard based on HD DVD
Updated: 8:41 a.m. ET Oct. 7, 2005
SHANGHAI, China - For the second time in two years, China has announced plans to develop its own next-generation DVD standard to break the monopoly of foreign companies and avoid paying heavy licensing fees.
If successful, the move could add a new wrinkle to the battle between HD DVD and the competing Blu-ray Disc formats over which will become the dominant new DVD standard.
The official Xinhua News Agency said the new standard will be based on but incompatible with HD DVD, which is being promoted by Toshiba Corp. and Universal Studios, as well as Intel Corp. and MS Corp., the leading suppliers of chips and software for most of the world's personal computers.
The Chinese standard, not expected to reach markets until at least 2008, would provide higher definition, better sound and better anti-piracy measures, Xinhua quoted Lu Da, deputy director of the government-affiliated National Disc Engineering Center, as saying earlier this week.
"With such format and related standards," Lu said, "We could have our own voice in the DVD industry."
The announcement marks China's latest attempt to leverage its manufacturing muscle to play by its own terms in the home video market. Up to 80 percent of DVD players are made in China, but makers have to cough up around 40 percent of the cost of each player to license holders, according to Chinese reports.
China began developing its own DVD standard in 1999, rolling out EVD, or enhanced versatile disc, in November 2003 with a vow to shake off dependence on foreign standards. Despite strong government backing, the initiative fizzled amid a legal battle between the technology's developer and a consortium of Chinese player manufacturers. Protoype EVD players were introduced in 2004 but never established a presence in the market.
Xinhua didn't give a name for the new HD DVD-based standard, and it wasn't clear whether it had borrowed technology from the EVD standard. No directory listing could be obtained for the National Disc Engineering Center on Friday, which was a holiday in China.
HD DVD's backers say they have made inroads with Chinese manufacturers, whose support is vital to quickly deploying the technology at a low price.
Blu-ray is backed by Sony Corp., Apple Computer Inc., Hewlett-Packard Co. and Dell Inc., along with a variety of other tech companies and studios.
Post by: Bogus8 on October 07, 2005, 02:51:00 PM
guess this is true with countries/manfactures that you exploit in china too... I think it would be awesome if big corporations dependancy on china came back to bite them on the ass!!
BTW, I read an industry mag (Broadcast Engineering) that said the switch to HD broadcast has been moved from jan 1 2006 to jan 1 2009 and that there is talk of a free set top box to "ease" transition and/or a $250 credit towards the purchase of a new tv... glad that fcc is really looking out for the people
now not only will they pocket millions in selling that spectrum we have to pay for the conversion, not just upfront but with tax dollars. Guess that's how the rich get richer and we keep sliding closer towards poverty everyday.
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 07, 2005, 10:20:00 PM
QUOTE(Bogus8 @ Oct 7 2005, 01:02 PM)
BTW, I read an industry mag (Broadcast Engineering) that said the switch to HD broadcast has been moved from jan 1 2006 to jan 1 2009 and that there is talk of a free set top box to "ease" transition and/or a $250 credit towards the purchase of a new tv... glad that fcc is really looking out for the people now not only will they pocket millions in selling that spectrum we have to pay for the conversion, not just upfront but with tax dollars. Guess that's how the rich get richer and we keep sliding closer towards poverty everyday.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 07, 2005, 10:41:00 PM
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Distant?? No, tell that to the millions that live near or below the poverty line and are using a hand me down tv to watch tv in between their 3 jobs.... FCC should be spending more time regulating clearchannel and sinclair and such... not forcing the ones they are supposed to be "protecting" to switch to something they don't need.
When they wanted to get rid of 3 wheel ATV's they passed a law saying you couldn't manufacture them anymore they didn't say everyone has to turn theirs in because they are unsafe. This is the equivilent, no they aren't asking you to turn in your tv but why make it useless... are they gonna give me 250 for every tv I have or a box for each tv I have.. I have about 10 sitting around in the attic and such (my father used to sell tv's and I collected old ones for various projects). I don't think it's in MY interest to render these devices useless .. granted they pretty much are useless... well I say that but I pulled one out the other day and used it 1986 Citek with 12 manually tuned channels (had a remote back in the day with a button for each channel too) I get a better signal on that tv then the new 20" apex I bought after I got tired of the channels drifting on that one... but the signal comes in worse now with a $75 fancy pants amplified antenna vs the 87' tv with the rabbit ears and uhf loop
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 07, 2005, 10:57:00 PM
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It's one thing to regulate, it's another to practically harass. They're not regulationg, they're dictating, and it's rediculous.
And if they were gunna just give away conversion boxes (or even at $50 to $100), then I see no problem with switching to a new format. Now, if they were going to charge an arm and a leg just so someone with an old TV can watch television, THEN there would be a problem. But just because broadcasting goes HD doesn't mean everyone has to go out and spend $1000+ on a new TV. It's not affecting much. If the FCC dedicated an entire year (or even two) to having conversion boxes available to the public to pic up, I see no problem with switching completely the next year. So if they started March of 2006, and ended the campaign in November of 2007 (but still continued to serve out units) then by January of 2008 they could switch over. Sounds good to me, lol.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 07, 2005, 11:21:00 PM
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And how many??? like I said I have like 10+ tv's... It seems unlikely that they will want to give more than 1 per household so they are dictating and being unreasonable. Plus do you have to show reciepts for your tv's? I don't have the reciept for that 20" I bought one year ago much less my 36" from 5 years ago or the other 8+ tv's I got lingering from the 70's-80's.
But I can buy a used 3 wheel ATV and get FULL of use out of it.
I think they should have passed a law so that they couldn't make anymore regular tv's when they decided to make this switch... instead they are STILL making and selling VERY expensive NON hd tv's... my neighbor just bought a 36" BEAST Wega that isn't HD but cost him 1k now he MAY get a free box (doubt he has reciept) or have to pay even more for a converter box... it's just rediculous and serves NO point! Eventually it would become not profitable to maintain standard broadcast from the stations stand point and they would have naturally dropped it IF they would have stopped making non hd tv's.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: LightningStruckMyXbox on October 07, 2005, 11:30:00 PM
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The only thing that worries me in this new "HD" era is what will happen to the price of our average movies? A VHS is made up of 5x more plastic than DVD but DVD cost 2 or 3 times as much. This is because they are not selling the material, they are selling the technology. I think that this new format of disks is going to drive up the cost of our movies by at least 4 or 5 dollars. Doesn't sound like much you say? Well that dvd you just bought for 25 bucks, no way it's gonna be 30 or more now. HD-DVD and Blue-Ray are great but at what cost to the consumer?
On the other hand, a plus to this price jump will be lower DVD price. I give it a year or so before VHS is removed from the shelves and DVD is the new, old technology (that will cost half as much).
I also expect game prices to rise (for games printed on HD-DVD or Blue-Ray disks) about 10-15 dollars extra. And the thing is, all of this is about this so called "High Resolution" or "High-Definition" format. My TV doesn't even support more than 1024x678. Do we need to go out and buy a TV that supports this super high resolution? Do they even make them yet?
This new DVD format is just too soon for our current technology. It's beyond our time. That doesn't necessarily mean that we don't need it but a dvd player will cost you around 30-40 bucks. It will play on any TV and you benefit from all of it's features. An HD-DVD player will cost you a pretty penny (more than a new xbox) and will play on (hopefully) every TV. BUT, you will only benefit from some of it's more professed features if you are the proud owner of a $6,000 TV. And as it stands the average home owner can't afford this.
HD-DVD and Blue-Ray will become more practical when the other items needed to unleash it's full potential become cheaper, and more available.
I DO understand that this higher capacity disk will be needed in corporate applications and some consumer but the average joe will probably not benefit from this for a couple years.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 08, 2005, 01:00:00 AM
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agreed to a point
Most of the cost of "new technology" is in the R&D of that process... samething with cpu's soon as it's out its rediculous then eventually it's dirt cheap and yet they are still making a profit. Cost of manf. isn't just materials.. hd and br will be expensive because of retooling (more so with br) and that will translate.. eventually it will come down... dvd has dropped drammatically and VHS WOW! at I remember movies being 70 bucks on vhs.
I also just saw a quick fact poll in that trade mag that said that only 13% of americans own an HD tv... not sure who they polled to know if it's mostly rich white men on some tech savy website or was it coming out of your average grocery store? that does skew your results.. but even if it is accurate 13% (not all their tv's are hd they just own AN hd tv) so there is another 87% of the 300 million people in the us that don't have even ONE hd tv... then add to that that most houses usually have more than one tv in the house. That's a LOT of people left out in the "dark" sure doesn't seem like something that "the people" are demanding and if it's not driven by the people who's interest is it being driven by?
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 08, 2005, 06:20:00 AM
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If the FCC want's to push out the date to 2009 FINE, but in doing so now they have to do the transition right
First, if the FCC was serious they'd require manufacturers to stop selling non-HDTVs plain and simple.
Consumer Joe walks into best buy, tells the clerk: "I just want a new TV, I can't afford one of those new fangled HDTVs".
Clerk: "we don't sell any non-HDTVs"
Joe: "What! Why?"
Clerk: "the FCC is requiring all broadcasts to be in HD by 2009, so they stopped making TVs that arn't HDTVs. We have some HDTV CRTs over here that are about the same price as the old sets."
Joe: "Wow really, I thought only those expensive plasma TVs where HDTVs."
Which brings me to my next point... rather than spending stupid amounts of money paying for boxes that DOWNGRADE your signal to work with your POS set. or wasting tax money giving everyone with a TV $250 to buy a new HDTV (yeah right, like most people will spend it on a TV). Why don't they spend just a fraction of that money EDUCATING PEOPLE!
Honestly even the people I know with HDTVs have no clue what they bought, I could spend all day in the AV forum here explaining the differences in resolutions and what-not and these are tech savvy people. The only people educated on the subject are those who have spent a great deal of personal time to educate themselves. It's not rocket science, if people were actually aware that they could buy CRT HDTVs for only a little more than non-HDTV CRTs, or that the broadcast standards were changing on X date in the future and the differences between analog, digital, and HD. I think a lot more people would make the right choices.
Instead Joe wakes up one day and the non-HDTV he bought last week doesn't work, he buys a paper and reads that the standards changed yesterday and he needs to go wait in line for a converter box.
Another part of the problem is that the Cable providers are slowly converting their channels from analog over to Digital... GREAT! ...BUT they still charge about $20-$40 more for the digital service over analog. If anything the FCC should be forcing them to create a digital price point equivalent to their analog service, that would dramatically increase the number of digital users and help the transition move faster.
As it is people are just complaining that their channels are disappearing and they're being forced to pay SUBSTANTIALLY more if they want them back.
I think almost anyone would pay an extra $5 to get the same service but in digital instead of analog, but most who would be fine with Analog probably wouldn't be happy paying an extra $20 or even $40 for it.
</rant>
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 08, 2005, 02:17:00 PM
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Amen my brother!!
I know he's resigned now but Micheal Powell was once quoted as saying "I really don't know what the people want" that kind of statement puts the FCC in perspective and explains why they keep letting big corporations do things that ONLY benefit them.
Just look up pirate radio stations or Low Power FM in a search engine and you will see lots of horrible things the FCC has done to put more money in the hands that "buy" them off and lots less interest in what the people need/want.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 08, 2005, 09:22:00 PM
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now not only will they pocket millions in selling that spectrum we have to pay for the conversion, not just upfront but with tax dollars. Guess that's how the rich get richer and we keep sliding closer towards poverty everyday.Post by: Bogus8 on October 07, 2005, 10:41:00 PM
When they wanted to get rid of 3 wheel ATV's they passed a law saying you couldn't manufacture them anymore they didn't say everyone has to turn theirs in because they are unsafe. This is the equivilent, no they aren't asking you to turn in your tv but why make it useless... are they gonna give me 250 for every tv I have or a box for each tv I have.. I have about 10 sitting around in the attic and such (my father used to sell tv's and I collected old ones for various projects). I don't think it's in MY interest to render these devices useless .. granted they pretty much are useless... well I say that but I pulled one out the other day and used it 1986 Citek with 12 manually tuned channels (had a remote back in the day with a button for each channel too) I get a better signal on that tv then the new 20" apex I bought after I got tired of the channels drifting on that one... but the signal comes in worse now with a $75 fancy pants amplified antenna vs the 87' tv with the rabbit ears and uhf loop
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 07, 2005, 10:57:00 PM
And if they were gunna just give away conversion boxes (or even at $50 to $100), then I see no problem with switching to a new format. Now, if they were going to charge an arm and a leg just so someone with an old TV can watch television, THEN there would be a problem. But just because broadcasting goes HD doesn't mean everyone has to go out and spend $1000+ on a new TV. It's not affecting much. If the FCC dedicated an entire year (or even two) to having conversion boxes available to the public to pic up, I see no problem with switching completely the next year. So if they started March of 2006, and ended the campaign in November of 2007 (but still continued to serve out units) then by January of 2008 they could switch over. Sounds good to me, lol.
Post by: Bogus8 on October 07, 2005, 11:21:00 PM
But I can buy a used 3 wheel ATV and get FULL of use out of it.
I think they should have passed a law so that they couldn't make anymore regular tv's when they decided to make this switch... instead they are STILL making and selling VERY expensive NON hd tv's... my neighbor just bought a 36" BEAST Wega that isn't HD but cost him 1k now he MAY get a free box (doubt he has reciept) or have to pay even more for a converter box... it's just rediculous and serves NO point! Eventually it would become not profitable to maintain standard broadcast from the stations stand point and they would have naturally dropped it IF they would have stopped making non hd tv's.
Post by: LightningStruckMyXbox on October 07, 2005, 11:30:00 PM
On the other hand, a plus to this price jump will be lower DVD price. I give it a year or so before VHS is removed from the shelves and DVD is the new, old technology (that will cost half as much).
I also expect game prices to rise (for games printed on HD-DVD or Blue-Ray disks) about 10-15 dollars extra. And the thing is, all of this is about this so called "High Resolution" or "High-Definition" format. My TV doesn't even support more than 1024x678. Do we need to go out and buy a TV that supports this super high resolution? Do they even make them yet?
This new DVD format is just too soon for our current technology. It's beyond our time. That doesn't necessarily mean that we don't need it but a dvd player will cost you around 30-40 bucks. It will play on any TV and you benefit from all of it's features. An HD-DVD player will cost you a pretty penny (more than a new xbox) and will play on (hopefully) every TV. BUT, you will only benefit from some of it's more professed features if you are the proud owner of a $6,000 TV. And as it stands the average home owner can't afford this.
HD-DVD and Blue-Ray will become more practical when the other items needed to unleash it's full potential become cheaper, and more available.
I DO understand that this higher capacity disk will be needed in corporate applications and some consumer but the average joe will probably not benefit from this for a couple years.
Post by: Bogus8 on October 08, 2005, 01:00:00 AM
Most of the cost of "new technology" is in the R&D of that process... samething with cpu's soon as it's out its rediculous then eventually it's dirt cheap and yet they are still making a profit. Cost of manf. isn't just materials.. hd and br will be expensive because of retooling (more so with br) and that will translate.. eventually it will come down... dvd has dropped drammatically and VHS WOW! at I remember movies being 70 bucks on vhs.
I also just saw a quick fact poll in that trade mag that said that only 13% of americans own an HD tv... not sure who they polled to know if it's mostly rich white men on some tech savy website or was it coming out of your average grocery store? that does skew your results.. but even if it is accurate 13% (not all their tv's are hd they just own AN hd tv) so there is another 87% of the 300 million people in the us that don't have even ONE hd tv... then add to that that most houses usually have more than one tv in the house. That's a LOT of people left out in the "dark" sure doesn't seem like something that "the people" are demanding and if it's not driven by the people who's interest is it being driven by?
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 08, 2005, 06:20:00 AM
First, if the FCC was serious they'd require manufacturers to stop selling non-HDTVs plain and simple.
Consumer Joe walks into best buy, tells the clerk: "I just want a new TV, I can't afford one of those new fangled HDTVs".
Clerk: "we don't sell any non-HDTVs"
Joe: "What! Why?"
Clerk: "the FCC is requiring all broadcasts to be in HD by 2009, so they stopped making TVs that arn't HDTVs. We have some HDTV CRTs over here that are about the same price as the old sets."
Joe: "Wow really, I thought only those expensive plasma TVs where HDTVs."
Which brings me to my next point... rather than spending stupid amounts of money paying for boxes that DOWNGRADE your signal to work with your POS set. or wasting tax money giving everyone with a TV $250 to buy a new HDTV (yeah right, like most people will spend it on a TV). Why don't they spend just a fraction of that money EDUCATING PEOPLE!
Honestly even the people I know with HDTVs have no clue what they bought, I could spend all day in the AV forum here explaining the differences in resolutions and what-not and these are tech savvy people. The only people educated on the subject are those who have spent a great deal of personal time to educate themselves. It's not rocket science, if people were actually aware that they could buy CRT HDTVs for only a little more than non-HDTV CRTs, or that the broadcast standards were changing on X date in the future and the differences between analog, digital, and HD. I think a lot more people would make the right choices.
Instead Joe wakes up one day and the non-HDTV he bought last week doesn't work, he buys a paper and reads that the standards changed yesterday and he needs to go wait in line for a converter box.
Another part of the problem is that the Cable providers are slowly converting their channels from analog over to Digital... GREAT! ...BUT they still charge about $20-$40 more for the digital service over analog. If anything the FCC should be forcing them to create a digital price point equivalent to their analog service, that would dramatically increase the number of digital users and help the transition move faster.
As it is people are just complaining that their channels are disappearing and they're being forced to pay SUBSTANTIALLY more if they want them back.
I think almost anyone would pay an extra $5 to get the same service but in digital instead of analog, but most who would be fine with Analog probably wouldn't be happy paying an extra $20 or even $40 for it.
</rant>
Post by: Bogus8 on October 08, 2005, 02:17:00 PM
I know he's resigned now but Micheal Powell was once quoted as saying "I really don't know what the people want" that kind of statement puts the FCC in perspective and explains why they keep letting big corporations do things that ONLY benefit them.
Just look up pirate radio stations or Low Power FM in a search engine and you will see lots of horrible things the FCC has done to put more money in the hands that "buy" them off and lots less interest in what the people need/want.
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 08, 2005, 09:22:00 PM
QUOTE(Bogus8 @ Oct 7 2005, 09:32 PM)
And how many??? like I said I have like 10+ tv's... It seems unlikely that they will want to give more than 1 per household so they are dictating and being unreasonable. Plus do you have to show reciepts for your tv's? I don't have the reciept for that 20" I bought one year ago much less my 36" from 5 years ago or the other 8+ tv's I got lingering from the 70's-80's.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 08, 2005, 09:43:00 PM
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Post by: Bogus8 on October 08, 2005, 09:43:00 PM
QUOTE(Owtlaw333 @ Oct 8 2005, 10:33 PM)
I'm thinking it won't be this complicated (or shouldn't be, at least). What they should do is have the cable companies hand them out. Maybe for every cable box you have in your house they'll give you a converter (or maybe they'll give you new boxes all together). For those that don't have cable boxes, they can find some other means... (I'm a lil tired from work and sleep deprivation at the moment so it's hard to think of some clever way to do it, haha) But I HIGHLY doubt they'd give you one for every TV you own. That's just rediculous and stupid.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 09, 2005, 11:01:00 PM
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Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 09, 2005, 11:01:00 PM
QUOTE(Bogus8 @ Oct 8 2005, 07:54 PM)
No, what's stupid is FORCING this upgrade when there is no logical or logistical reason to. The FCC's job is to protect the people... how does this follow that? It is ONLY serving the corporations that line their pockets via lobbyist.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 10, 2005, 03:40:00 AM
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Snake_Eye on October 10, 2005, 06:44:00 AM
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i think games will need more storage NG was like 6gb altho that had alot of high qulity CG and i remeber the makers of saint row saying the DVD couldn't stream fast enough so they could put in plains
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 10, 2005, 08:10:00 AM
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Post by: Bogus8 on October 10, 2005, 03:40:00 AM
Post by: Snake_Eye on October 10, 2005, 06:44:00 AM
i think games will need more storage NG was like 6gb altho that had alot of high qulity CG and i remeber the makers of saint row saying the DVD couldn't stream fast enough so they could put in plains
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 10, 2005, 08:10:00 AM
QUOTE(Snake_Eye @ Oct 10 2005, 08:55 AM)
i dont even have a DVD player yet or a DVD drive in my computer i use my xbox to watch dvds but it makes a loud nosie
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 10, 2005, 11:33:00 AM
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Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 10, 2005, 11:33:00 AM
QUOTE(Bogus8 @ Oct 10 2005, 01:51 AM)
There is NO mac computer that forces you to use a newer monitor, they do have the option to use the ADC or DVI but you can use a supplied DVI-VGA adapter with regular monitors even with the latest G5's... my production company has 2 macs and have looked at upgrading lately and we don't have ANY digital displays and that won't be a problem.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: nj12nets on October 10, 2005, 11:36:00 AM
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what about the apples where the computer is built in? the one that had like a handle in top that was in the movie zoolander
or what about the commercial where it was imitating the guy and the monitor was like a face and the guy stuck his tounge out and the computer opened the cd tray. they have had made u get newer monitors that were built in.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Moleman on October 10, 2005, 03:32:00 PM
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Another reason the FCC wants to go all digital is to free up some bandwidth in the upper spectrum of TV broadcasting, so they can auction it off for wireless networking and such. And digital is not necessarily HDTV. However, this DRM bullshit is getting quite annoying. TiVo could be a thing of the past.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 11, 2005, 02:29:00 AM
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Post by: nj12nets on October 10, 2005, 11:36:00 AM
or what about the commercial where it was imitating the guy and the monitor was like a face and the guy stuck his tounge out and the computer opened the cd tray. they have had made u get newer monitors that were built in.
Post by: Moleman on October 10, 2005, 03:32:00 PM
Post by: Bogus8 on October 11, 2005, 02:29:00 AM
QUOTE(Owtlaw333 @ Oct 10 2005, 12:44 PM)
Yes, the newer Macs required you to either get a new monitor or an adapter after they changed the ports.(Even though, I believe, they supplied the adapters) I think the same went for the keyboards and mice too.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 11, 2005, 02:31:00 AM
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Post by: Bogus8 on October 11, 2005, 02:31:00 AM
QUOTE(nj12nets @ Oct 10 2005, 12:47 PM)
what about the apples where the computer is built in? the one that had like a handle in top that was in the movie zoolander
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 11, 2005, 02:32:00 AM
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Post by: Bogus8 on October 11, 2005, 02:32:00 AM
QUOTE(Moleman @ Oct 10 2005, 04:43 PM)
Another reason the FCC wants to go all digital is to free up some bandwidth in the upper spectrum of TV broadcasting, so they can auction it off for wireless networking and such. And digital is not necessarily HDTV. However, this DRM bullshit is getting quite annoying. TiVo could be a thing of the past.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 12, 2005, 11:44:00 AM
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Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 12, 2005, 11:44:00 AM
QUOTE(Bogus8 @ Oct 11 2005, 12:40 AM)
New Macs G5's (honestly not sure about the "mini macs" though... it's not a real computer, I think it's a toy and you pay premium for toys) come with DVI-I (pretty standard today) and the ADC (Apple specific) but comes with a DVI to VGA adapter so you don't NEED anything new. Mouse and Keyboards are just usb that's nothing crazy. Trust me I'm not a mac fanboy (quite the opposite) I just happen to have cracked the case on a few in the recent days.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 12, 2005, 06:51:00 PM
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Not sure which one... there was the G3 and I don't know about those (too old) there was the cube and I don't recall what that had, but that was considered a flop... and again that's a "toy" to me. there was the ones with screens built in but again that's a toy and if a pc did that (sony did) it would be the same.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 12, 2005, 07:35:00 PM
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The difference is the broadcast and data transmission standards are controlled and regulated by the FCC.
The keyboard and monitor standards used on macs are NOT controlled by the FCC.
That would be like the FCC stepping in and forcing MS to support Xbox controllers and AV adapters on the 360...
it's not a public form of communication the FCC doesn't give a shit about it.
There are many new technologies that can't be fully realized because their aren't enough frequencies left in the spectrum due to continued support for archaic analog frequencies.
So in my personal opinion yes it is to the benefit of the public to force the change from an analog format to a digital format.
To give you an example of how much wasted over the air and cable bandwidth is wasted. For every 1 analog 480i 4:3 Stereo Audio channel you remove you can fit as many as 16 HD channel with 5.1 audio.
Everyone needs to use the airwaves and it's the FCC's job to decide how it should be used so that people don't just develop technologies that interfere with each other, that wouldn't be good for anyone.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 12, 2005, 08:01:00 PM
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I can appreciate that... but they are going about it the wrong way... why are they still letting people go in and spend hard earned money on tv's that should have been useless by the end of the year and will be useless in 3 years. They should stop the manufactures from making these tv's... they should have done so the minute they decided to mandate the change. They don't do so that way manfactures can still sell it to you then sell the upgrades later. Even if they aren't going to do THAT much they should have at least made it law that dealers had to INFORM everyone before allowing them to buy a non hd tv that it would be practically obsolete by X date. I think they are being underhanded and completely serving self and corporate interest... those that are completely out of synch with the publics. I mean when do they stop letting joe consumer go down to best buy and purchase a $1,000 dollar non hd tv? (at least without completely informing him). Actually worse is the 100-200 dollar tv's that they won't be giving you the free converter box for. Those will be wastes of money or an item we have to throw more money at later when you thought you were just buying the kids a cheap tv.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 13, 2005, 03:53:00 AM
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I agree completely....
as I said before: http://forums.xbox-s...dpost&p=2971693
I was just stating that the FCC does have SOME good reason for pushing the change over, even if they way they're doing it is flawed.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 13, 2005, 11:08:00 AM
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Post by: Bogus8 on October 12, 2005, 06:51:00 PM
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 12, 2005, 07:35:00 PM
The keyboard and monitor standards used on macs are NOT controlled by the FCC.
That would be like the FCC stepping in and forcing MS to support Xbox controllers and AV adapters on the 360...
it's not a public form of communication the FCC doesn't give a shit about it.
There are many new technologies that can't be fully realized because their aren't enough frequencies left in the spectrum due to continued support for archaic analog frequencies.
So in my personal opinion yes it is to the benefit of the public to force the change from an analog format to a digital format.
To give you an example of how much wasted over the air and cable bandwidth is wasted. For every 1 analog 480i 4:3 Stereo Audio channel you remove you can fit as many as 16 HD channel with 5.1 audio.
Everyone needs to use the airwaves and it's the FCC's job to decide how it should be used so that people don't just develop technologies that interfere with each other, that wouldn't be good for anyone.
Post by: Bogus8 on October 12, 2005, 08:01:00 PM
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 13, 2005, 03:53:00 AM
as I said before: http://forums.xbox-s...dpost&p=2971693
I was just stating that the FCC does have SOME good reason for pushing the change over, even if they way they're doing it is flawed.
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 13, 2005, 11:08:00 AM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Oct 12 2005, 05:46 PM)
The keyboard and monitor standards used on macs are NOT controlled by the FCC.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 13, 2005, 12:20:00 PM
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Understood but this IS a matter of the FCC doing it... if the tv manf wanted to force this change or even if a station decided to stop broadcasting in analog that would be fine... but they would feel the wrath of the consumer which is why they will not do so. But the FCC could level the playing field by forcing ALL manf. to stop making analog tv's and no one manf. would suffer. This would slowly bring about change naturally. The FCC does have to approve of all elecronic devices sold so it wouldn't be hard for them to outlaw the making of analog tv's. Once a bigger market share has analog tv's the smaller stations won't mind making the switch themselves as they won't be snubbing 90% of their viewers. Right now our local networks broadcast in both but they will not drop their analog until forced to do so because that would be suicide as barely anyone would watch them anymore and between our ABC and CBS affiliates it is severe cut throat market and would certainly spell death.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 13, 2005, 01:58:00 PM
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Haha...Sorry.. couldn't think of anything REALLY powerful to say at the end of that sentence, lol.
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Title: Cd Vs Dvd Vs Hd-dvd Vs Blu-ray
Post by: Bogus8 on October 13, 2005, 09:01:00 PM
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The mandate says they will require a cease in analog broadcasting so they can sell the spectrum for a reported 70 billion.
Post by: Bogus8 on October 13, 2005, 12:20:00 PM
Post by: Owtlaw333 on October 13, 2005, 01:58:00 PM
Haha...Sorry.. couldn't think of anything REALLY powerful to say at the end of that sentence, lol.
Post by: Bogus8 on October 13, 2005, 09:01:00 PM
The mandate says they will require a cease in analog broadcasting so they can sell the spectrum for a reported 70 billion.