Post by: CattyKid on August 05, 2005, 09:50:00 AM
Without a HDD, then devs will either have to make 2 versions of a game, which would be absurd, or just disregard it, which would be likely. Also, you would only be able to stream media and not store it locally. Haven't they been toting the Media Center Capability of this thing for months?
Games were supposed to use the PS2 HDD, but few people bought it. Look what happened to it. I know it was released late in its life, but if the PS2 had a built in HDD, games could have been so much better.
Just my $.02
Comments, or am I just a little tyrannical?
Post by: EverestX on August 05, 2005, 09:54:00 AM
I dont think so.. I think that it is brilliant.. Make a lame box for people who dont want backwards compatiability, they just want the newest shit at the cheapest price. And make the other for us.. the mod scene.. It seems perfect.. As for making 2 games I dont knwo where you came up with that.. a game will load just the same on a cd as a hard drive.. and did you really think you were goign to cache a whole game to that thing anyway? Doubt it...
Also they said compatability .. not being able to store the shit on your HD you are just goign to have a boxthat can stream all your chit from a media center home pc..
--Edit horrible spelling and grammer
Post by: thax on August 05, 2005, 10:02:00 AM
This information is not accurate in my opinion. You can't provide backwards compatibility without the HD.
Post by: xboxmodder4life on August 05, 2005, 10:02:00 AM
it's already been said that the xbox comes with a 20gig harddrive. So i'm guessing for that extra 100$ maybe you get 2 wireless controllers + charging kit, or 2 controllers + project gotham racing 3. Basically i believe the 399$ is just a bundle made by MS.
If there are a bundle version and regular version both with include the 20gb harddrive. This has been announced by MS numerous times that all versions will include the harddrive.
Post by: CattyKid on August 05, 2005, 10:06:00 AM
QUOTE(EverestX @ Aug 5 2005, 01:05 PM)
Without a HDD, then devs will either have to make 2 versions of a game, which would be absurd, or just disregard it, which would be likely.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: EverestX on August 05, 2005, 10:07:00 AM
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Yeah but do you really think once the hd-dvd's get to the box your shitty 20 gigs is goign to hold more than 1 game? That's my point.. and there is a differnt in caching to a hard drive and loading off a hard drive if I am correct.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: CattyKid on August 05, 2005, 10:12:00 AM
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Post by: EverestX on August 05, 2005, 10:07:00 AM
Post by: CattyKid on August 05, 2005, 10:12:00 AM
QUOTE(xboxmodder4life @ Aug 5 2005, 01:13 PM)
"and another unit near $399, with the more expensive unit including "additional hardware components (e.g., hard-drive option, extra controller, memory option) that core users will likely buy anyway."
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: EverestX on August 05, 2005, 10:19:00 AM
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No I am emplying that you would need one system with an hd to play the original Xbox games. The new 360 gmaews could opperate with or without it.. Infact they make make titles that require the hard drive... but I doubt they will make games that cant function in a 360 with a hard drive..
Ture about the caching but if there were 2 versions one could use the feature and one couldn't,, possibly part of that $100 differnce.
REally more than anything I think the hard drive has alot more to do with backwards compatability for the 360 than with cache. It's simply too small.. Along with teh fact the 12x dvd's are supposed to have a sick read/seek time it may be as fast in comparison to a 5400rpm 8 gig... You never know.. Well at least I wont tell i have that thing in 100 pieces accross my floor..
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: Carlo210 on August 05, 2005, 10:42:00 AM
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Post by: EverestX on August 05, 2005, 10:19:00 AM
Ture about the caching but if there were 2 versions one could use the feature and one couldn't,, possibly part of that $100 differnce.
REally more than anything I think the hard drive has alot more to do with backwards compatability for the 360 than with cache. It's simply too small.. Along with teh fact the 12x dvd's are supposed to have a sick read/seek time it may be as fast in comparison to a 5400rpm 8 gig... You never know.. Well at least I wont tell i have that thing in 100 pieces accross my floor..
Post by: Carlo210 on August 05, 2005, 10:42:00 AM
QUOTE(CattyKid @ Aug 5 2005, 06:01 PM)
If you read the front page, it reports that Forbes says there may very well be 2 versions of the 360 on release day. Now this, my friends, is not the smartest choice, in my mind. Okay, it may be $100 cheaper, but what ar the devs supposed to do? One of the reasons that games played so smoothly on the XBox was because an entire level could be cached to the HDD, like Halo, so there is no lag/ VERY little.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: holla45 on August 05, 2005, 10:50:00 AM
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Well well well noiw there's a slight chance they might be 2 versions if that statements true.......i guess there's gonna be alot of pissed M$ fans
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: deftonesmx17 on August 05, 2005, 10:53:00 AM
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Huh
Then explain why my 16x DVD drive in my computer cant even catch up with my IDE ATA-100 HDD, let alone my SATA drives.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: Bogus8 on August 05, 2005, 11:27:00 AM
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Yeah, optical storage is WAY behind and always will be behind standard HD storage... On the other hand Networks can keep up with cd/dvd roms but that is a painfully slow medium so that kind of puts it in perspective.
Try running linux live off a cd and you will see how slow cd/dvd really is
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: twistedsymphony on August 05, 2005, 12:32:00 PM
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GAH!
stop the stupidity please!
1st:
As Thax said Piper Jaffray is a consulting firm... they know next to nothing about the Xbox and are probably going off of old rumors reports with the two versions (The forbes article listed word for word the 2 versions rumor that was going around BEFORE the MTV unveling... it's totally rubbish don't bother listing to it)
Besides MS has outright said many many many times that "there will be only one version this holiday season" I tend to believe MS over fuggin Piper Jaffray, wait let me correct that... I tend to believe 4 or 5 MS execs, confirming each other about an MS product over a 3 paragraph online Forbes article quoting a consulting firm that's speculating about another companies product with no references to when those speculations where made.
2nd:
Even if the rumor IS true they never said that the lower "version" (which really sounds more like a "bundle" to me) would NOT include a hard drive. Who's to say that the "advanced" version wouldn't include a 40GB and the lower one includes a 20? Don't bother answering that because the rumor isn't true anyway
3rd:
There have been several interviews with game developers saying that they're utilizing the hard drive for caching/virtual memory. END OF STORY. Developers will not be making 2 versions of their game for a single console. And developer are relying heavily on the included hard drive for caching. THERE WILL BE A HARD DRIVE.
4th:
a 12x DVD drive is not faster than an SATA hard drive.... NOT EVEN CLOSE
1"X" is 11.06 Mbps so 12"X" is about 132.96Mbps. Now also consider a 12X is the drives "peek" speed meaning it has an average speed probably around 8X or 88.64 Mbps. An SATA hard drive on the other hand has a transfer speed of about 1200Mbps... in case you weren't paying attention 88 is no where near 1200. Not ot mention that on the off chance the 360 uses an ATA-100 drive as opposed to an SATA drive, the transfer speed is still 800Mbps. Add to that the fact that optical drives always have longer seek times...
Don't believe me? look it up yourself:
http://www.forret.co...itle=Serial ATA
Besides they don't put the whole DVD on the hard drive because it's faster than pulling it off the CD... they use it for virtual memory; as an extension of the RAM... If you still don't get it go look up virtual memory....
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: incognegro on August 05, 2005, 12:37:00 PM
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: holla45 on August 05, 2005, 12:52:00 PM
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Thing is why need a hdd for cache when xbox360 has 12x speed 3x then original xbox
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: EverestX on August 05, 2005, 12:58:00 PM
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... Um Serial ata operates at 150 meg a sec as opposed the ata 100, which odly enough.. .Was 100meg a sec.
.. Why 12x too slow? Well if you think your current cd rom drive is slow. wait till you have 3 3ghz proccessors in your new xbox.. then your cd rom is still going to be slow(er) than you likie. Also the information is going to be differnt so it would be better to have hard drive caching.. Al this shit is theorectical information.. None of us have a 360 in our hands so who knows what the hell is goign to come with it otherthan a power cord and a box as of right now..
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: deftonesmx17 on August 05, 2005, 01:06:00 PM
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Post by: holla45 on August 05, 2005, 10:50:00 AM
Post by: deftonesmx17 on August 05, 2005, 10:53:00 AM
QUOTE(thax @ Aug 5 2005, 12:20 PM)
The new 12x DVD drive in the x360 when spun up will theoretically have better seek and tranfer rates than the integrated HDD.
Huh
Then explain why my 16x DVD drive in my computer cant even catch up with my IDE ATA-100 HDD, let alone my SATA drives.
Post by: Bogus8 on August 05, 2005, 11:27:00 AM
Try running linux live off a cd and you will see how slow cd/dvd really is
Post by: twistedsymphony on August 05, 2005, 12:32:00 PM
stop the stupidity please!
1st:
As Thax said Piper Jaffray is a consulting firm... they know next to nothing about the Xbox and are probably going off of old rumors reports with the two versions (The forbes article listed word for word the 2 versions rumor that was going around BEFORE the MTV unveling... it's totally rubbish don't bother listing to it)
Besides MS has outright said many many many times that "there will be only one version this holiday season" I tend to believe MS over fuggin Piper Jaffray, wait let me correct that... I tend to believe 4 or 5 MS execs, confirming each other about an MS product over a 3 paragraph online Forbes article quoting a consulting firm that's speculating about another companies product with no references to when those speculations where made.
2nd:
Even if the rumor IS true they never said that the lower "version" (which really sounds more like a "bundle" to me) would NOT include a hard drive. Who's to say that the "advanced" version wouldn't include a 40GB and the lower one includes a 20? Don't bother answering that because the rumor isn't true anyway
3rd:
There have been several interviews with game developers saying that they're utilizing the hard drive for caching/virtual memory. END OF STORY. Developers will not be making 2 versions of their game for a single console. And developer are relying heavily on the included hard drive for caching. THERE WILL BE A HARD DRIVE.
4th:
a 12x DVD drive is not faster than an SATA hard drive.... NOT EVEN CLOSE
1"X" is 11.06 Mbps so 12"X" is about 132.96Mbps. Now also consider a 12X is the drives "peek" speed meaning it has an average speed probably around 8X or 88.64 Mbps. An SATA hard drive on the other hand has a transfer speed of about 1200Mbps... in case you weren't paying attention 88 is no where near 1200. Not ot mention that on the off chance the 360 uses an ATA-100 drive as opposed to an SATA drive, the transfer speed is still 800Mbps. Add to that the fact that optical drives always have longer seek times...
Don't believe me? look it up yourself:
http://www.forret.co...itle=Serial ATA
Besides they don't put the whole DVD on the hard drive because it's faster than pulling it off the CD... they use it for virtual memory; as an extension of the RAM... If you still don't get it go look up virtual memory....
Post by: incognegro on August 05, 2005, 12:37:00 PM
Post by: holla45 on August 05, 2005, 12:52:00 PM
Post by: EverestX on August 05, 2005, 12:58:00 PM
.. Why 12x too slow? Well if you think your current cd rom drive is slow. wait till you have 3 3ghz proccessors in your new xbox.. then your cd rom is still going to be slow(er) than you likie. Also the information is going to be differnt so it would be better to have hard drive caching.. Al this shit is theorectical information.. None of us have a 360 in our hands so who knows what the hell is goign to come with it otherthan a power cord and a box as of right now..
Post by: deftonesmx17 on August 05, 2005, 01:06:00 PM
QUOTE(thax @ Aug 5 2005, 02:57 PM)
The integrated HD only spins at 5400 RPM, I will pull the stats from the Seagate website later and show you. The seeks and transfer rates are slightly slower than an average 12x DVD drive.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: twistedsymphony on August 05, 2005, 01:07:00 PM
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Post by: twistedsymphony on August 05, 2005, 01:07:00 PM
QUOTE(EverestX @ Aug 5 2005, 03:09 PM)
... Um Serial ata operates at 150 meg a sec as opposed the ata 100, which odly enough.. .Was 100meg a sec.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: EverestX on August 05, 2005, 01:13:00 PM
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... Uh.. Whoops... *puts on dunce cap* Yeah i jsut wasn't getting where yo ucame up with that number.. makes sence now..
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: Moleman on August 05, 2005, 04:13:00 PM
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MS has stated that games and Xbox live will work without a hard drive present. While this may be true, I seriously doubt they wouldn't include a hard drive with the console. They want you to buy content in their marketplace, and they know most consumers wouldn't bother to get a hard drive to get content you have to pay for anyway. MS has also stated that you will be pleasantly suprised with the price. $399 doesn't sound pleasantly suprising.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: Carlo210 on August 05, 2005, 07:44:00 PM
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MS said one version many times. I don't even know why what these analysts pull out of their asses make you go WOW!
They thought Xbox would fail. Did it?
They thought the PS2 would be 50% of it's owners new personal computer. Did that happen?
Analysts could say anything but all they are doing are guessing things. If they are right, then they get paid. Also, the second reason why they do this is to keep their columns alive. At times like this, with no new news, they still gotta rack in 4-5 stories a week.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: Bogus8 on August 06, 2005, 11:36:00 AM
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: CattyKid on August 06, 2005, 12:22:00 PM
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Okay, thanks for clearing that up for me. That info just keeps popping up, and every time I freakin fall for it.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: Carlo210 on August 06, 2005, 05:54:00 PM
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Look, we are getting an Xbox360 with a 20gb harddrive, a headset, and a wireless controller. It's been said.
These 'analysts' pull possible conclusions out of their asses to get paid and you guys are taking them seriously. THIS isn't NEWS. It's assuming what could happen so if it does, the source which guessed it would happen would build a reputation. Some of you should know where this 'article' comes from and what it's all about before you take it into any sort of consideration.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: leaveye on August 08, 2005, 04:11:00 PM
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Post by: EverestX on August 05, 2005, 01:13:00 PM
Post by: Moleman on August 05, 2005, 04:13:00 PM
Post by: Carlo210 on August 05, 2005, 07:44:00 PM
They thought Xbox would fail. Did it?
They thought the PS2 would be 50% of it's owners new personal computer. Did that happen?
Analysts could say anything but all they are doing are guessing things. If they are right, then they get paid. Also, the second reason why they do this is to keep their columns alive. At times like this, with no new news, they still gotta rack in 4-5 stories a week.
Post by: Bogus8 on August 06, 2005, 11:36:00 AM
Post by: CattyKid on August 06, 2005, 12:22:00 PM
Post by: Carlo210 on August 06, 2005, 05:54:00 PM
These 'analysts' pull possible conclusions out of their asses to get paid and you guys are taking them seriously. THIS isn't NEWS. It's assuming what could happen so if it does, the source which guessed it would happen would build a reputation. Some of you should know where this 'article' comes from and what it's all about before you take it into any sort of consideration.
Post by: leaveye on August 08, 2005, 04:11:00 PM
QUOTE(Carlo210 @ Aug 7 2005, 02:05 AM)
Look, we are getting an Xbox360 with a 20gb harddrive, a headset, and a wireless controller. It's been said.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: thax on August 09, 2005, 09:51:00 AM
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On the front page is more bull about launching the console without a built-in HDD. If the console does launch in two configurations I will be extremely disappointed.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: twistedsymphony on August 09, 2005, 10:18:00 AM
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There wont be 2 "versions" if there are 2 of anything it would be a bundle AT BEST...
I could see 2 games a play and charge kit and a year of Gold for an extra $100
or maybe a 40GB hard drive the DVD remote and a game for an extra $100
but definitely not 2 "versions"
Thinking about it now you have to take into consideration the source... OUR definition of "versions" is hardware that is different in some way. Their definition of "versions" is different SKUs... you bundle in a game and it get's a different SKU...
Just think about that.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: deftonesmx17 on August 09, 2005, 11:00:00 AM
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Post by: thax on August 09, 2005, 09:51:00 AM
Post by: twistedsymphony on August 09, 2005, 10:18:00 AM
I could see 2 games a play and charge kit and a year of Gold for an extra $100
or maybe a 40GB hard drive the DVD remote and a game for an extra $100
but definitely not 2 "versions"
Thinking about it now you have to take into consideration the source... OUR definition of "versions" is hardware that is different in some way. Their definition of "versions" is different SKUs... you bundle in a game and it get's a different SKU...
Just think about that.
Post by: deftonesmx17 on August 09, 2005, 11:00:00 AM
QUOTE(thax @ Aug 8 2005, 07:01 PM)
Here is the information I said I would provide. I was incorrect about the transfer rate, but I believe I the seek times are theoretically faster on the DVD drive. The actual transfer rate fo the LD25 is not known yet, but it should exceed the 12x DVD. Please keep in mind even though SATA has a bandwidth of 150 MB/s doesn't mean that the drive is able to transfer at that rate.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: Carlo210 on August 09, 2005, 11:27:00 AM
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As long as I can get an xbox360 with a controller and 20gb harddrive for the 299.99 us, I'm happy.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: Andy51 on August 09, 2005, 03:30:00 PM
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: thax on August 09, 2005, 05:15:00 PM
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Post by: Carlo210 on August 09, 2005, 11:27:00 AM
Post by: Andy51 on August 09, 2005, 03:30:00 PM
Post by: thax on August 09, 2005, 05:15:00 PM
QUOTE(Andy51 @ Aug 9 2005, 11:41 PM)
yes and you won't be able to use it online
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: aepuppetmaster on August 09, 2005, 05:25:00 PM
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i bet eventually u will either be able to have 2 or use 1 big one, some group will figure it out, i just don't wanna pay 100 more on launch day for somthing (a bigger hdd) that i will have to buy later anyway when it gets cracked.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: c00ly on August 09, 2005, 07:03:00 PM
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I also would hate to have the console come in 2 version especially if the difference is harddrive-less. $299 USD is already too much money and to have no HDD and make you pay $100 more USD would just be a kick in the pants.
On another note i seem to recall the x360 having 512MB of flash memory as well as the HDD. In order to store the xbox360 OS as well as cache. And i seem to recall that they said you were able to save some save files there, in order to change harddrives and whatnot and still keep files on the machine.
The analysts shouldnt put thoughts in MS's noggin'. I wont be buying a 360 at that rediculus price ($399.99 USD).
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: CattyKid on August 09, 2005, 07:13:00 PM
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Flash memory built in? You must be thinking of a giant memory card or something. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remeber that.
Wow, this has been in the works for a long time.
Good searchin there ^^^ buddy.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: Ickypoopy on August 10, 2005, 07:50:00 AM
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Post by: aepuppetmaster on August 09, 2005, 05:25:00 PM
Post by: c00ly on August 09, 2005, 07:03:00 PM
On another note i seem to recall the x360 having 512MB of flash memory as well as the HDD. In order to store the xbox360 OS as well as cache. And i seem to recall that they said you were able to save some save files there, in order to change harddrives and whatnot and still keep files on the machine.
The analysts shouldnt put thoughts in MS's noggin'. I wont be buying a 360 at that rediculus price ($399.99 USD).
Post by: CattyKid on August 09, 2005, 07:13:00 PM
Wow, this has been in the works for a long time.
Good searchin there ^^^ buddy.
Post by: Ickypoopy on August 10, 2005, 07:50:00 AM
QUOTE(JesseWHHS @ Aug 10 2005, 12:23 AM)
I dont care if there are 7 versions. IM buying the biggest baddest one. along w/ most peopel here on teh scene. Ill spend an extra $100 for any small feature... Look at LE xboxs. u pay more for them adn tehy are teh SAME EXACT THING , just looks differnt. Therefor id happily pay for it beign a tiny bit better or faster. 
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: skel28 on August 21, 2005, 07:24:00 AM
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Post by: skel28 on August 21, 2005, 07:24:00 AM
QUOTE(Carlo210 @ Aug 5 2005, 06:53 PM)
You, my sir, need to learn a bit more about what you are talking about. There wILL NOT be 2 versions of ANY XBOX360. Retailers are just sugesting the occasional barebones xbox360 console for the listed price with the stuff in the box (cables, headstet, harddrive, etc) and a bundle, including the xbox360 box (cables, headset, harddrive, etc) with a game or two and an extra controller along with a memory card maybe.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: skel28 on August 21, 2005, 07:25:00 AM
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Post by: skel28 on August 21, 2005, 07:25:00 AM
QUOTE(Carlo210 @ Aug 5 2005, 06:53 PM)
You, my sir, need to learn a bit more about what you are talking about. There wILL NOT be 2 versions of ANY XBOX360. Retailers are just sugesting the occasional barebones xbox360 console for the listed price with the stuff in the box (cables, headstet, harddrive, etc) and a bundle, including the xbox360 box (cables, headset, harddrive, etc) with a game or two and an extra controller along with a memory card maybe.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: JimmyDeushku on August 21, 2005, 07:29:00 AM
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Post by: JimmyDeushku on August 21, 2005, 07:29:00 AM
QUOTE(skel28 @ Aug 21 2005, 08:36 AM)
So now the facts have been revealed, prices, SKU etc I bet you wish you hadn't been so vitriolic since your sarcastic comments are total bollocks. 
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: Carlo210 on August 21, 2005, 10:55:00 AM
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: Carlo210 on August 21, 2005, 12:47:00 PM
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: m_hael on August 21, 2005, 01:07:00 PM
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Post by: Carlo210 on August 21, 2005, 10:55:00 AM
Post by: Carlo210 on August 21, 2005, 12:47:00 PM
Post by: m_hael on August 21, 2005, 01:07:00 PM
QUOTE(Carlo210 @ Aug 21 2005, 12:58 PM)
I haven't been proven wrong, dumbass. MS said one version 2 months ago, and that is what I went with.
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: fofusion.co.uk on August 21, 2005, 02:41:00 PM
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Post by: fofusion.co.uk on August 21, 2005, 02:41:00 PM
QUOTE(m_hael @ Aug 21 2005, 08:18 PM)
we've known about 2 versions for 6months... STFU
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: Carlo210 on August 21, 2005, 04:43:00 PM
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Post by: Carlo210 on August 21, 2005, 04:43:00 PM
QUOTE(m_hael @ Aug 21 2005, 09:18 PM)
we've known about 2 versions for 6months... STFU
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Title: 2 Versions On Re;ease Day?
Post by: twistedsymphony on August 23, 2005, 07:02:00 AM
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The purpose of this topic has been served and all that's left are flames...
TOPIC CLOSED
Post by: twistedsymphony on August 23, 2005, 07:02:00 AM
TOPIC CLOSED