Post by: CattyKid on June 11, 2005, 01:10:00 PM
If MS decides to go with HD-DVD in their new console, at my own personal urging, it could have many ramifications, most of which are positive. If MS decides to go with HD-DVD, then it would cause many plants to convert to this standard and DVD makers would scramble to make discs that are true HD. This could, very easily, put Sony in trouble with their so called "Blu-Ray" which I consider to be the bane of my existence.
Even though it may cost a little more, I think this would be an incredible and feasible idea that could put MS at the top, even though it will cost them more money. They would have the first player that can accept the new discs and videophiles, not just gamers, would scramble to pick it up.
Thoughts/Comments?
Post by: incognegro on June 11, 2005, 03:38:00 PM
if MS goes with HD-dvd then they will lose some of the long term advantages that they over sony. For example, cheaper to manufacture game system thus making the price always competitive compared to the ps3. It sure would be funny if the 360 system price drops on the ps3 launch or even sellling the 360's with halo 3 bundled
Size doesn't matter, its all about the performance.
Post by: blackchild1101 on June 14, 2005, 08:50:00 PM
Post by: Skitals on June 15, 2005, 01:22:00 AM
I dont think storage for games will be an issue. The only drawback is not being able to play HD-DVD movies in our Xbox when/if they start coming out.
Post by: nj12nets on June 15, 2005, 05:39:00 AM
these hd-dvds or bluray discs will not be out for another while and will not be popular for a long time. dvd just started becoming more popular over vhs but vhs is still around. so well have vhs, dvd, dvd-hd/blueray. noones heard of the last 2 plus you need a new player for blu-ray.
hd-dvd is more cost effective but it will not do anything in this generation as the switch of formats is at least 4-5 years away
Post by: sunkist on June 16, 2005, 12:56:00 PM
QUOTE(nj12nets @ Jun 15 2005, 05:50 AM)
first of the size of the discs are now even since they make a triple layer hd-dvd disc which is 50 gb I think.Blu-ray also has its problems like if you move it with alot of force the data points will collapse or if you like hit it too hard or bend it you lose all data.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: ninjax on June 16, 2005, 01:13:00 PM
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An 800GB DVD has been patented recently, which blows the doors off of any Blu-Ray media out there. DVD is still considerably faster then Blu-Ray as far as search times and load times are concerned. HDDVD is still DVD, and is fully backwards compatible with normal DVD's in every case I have heard. As far as I am concerned DVD will remain to be the format for a very, very long time.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: mikeandbandit on June 16, 2005, 03:01:00 PM
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the advantage which bluray cant even begin to touch is that hddvd can put both standard resolution disks and hd resolution on one disk, meaning that single disk would be playable in BOTH a regular dvd drive and a hd drive. thus it can be seemlessly intergrated into the movie industry with almost no backlash.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: nj12nets on June 16, 2005, 03:11:00 PM
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Post by: ninjax on June 16, 2005, 01:13:00 PM
QUOTE
Iomega Corporation announced that the United States Patent & Trademark Office (USPTO) recently issued a highly notable patent to Iomega for its work with nano-technology and optical data storage. On April 12, 2005, U.S. Patent No. 6,879,556 titled Method and Apparatus for Optical Data Storage was issued to Iomega. This patent is the first in a series of nano-technology-based subwavelength optical data storage patents sought by Iomega.
The patent covers a novel technique of encoding data on the surface of a DVD by using reflective nano-structures to encode data in a highly multi-level format. This technology, termed AO-DVD (Articulated Optical - Digital Versatile Disc), allows more data to be stored on a DVD and could allow future optical discs to potentially hold 40-100 times more information with data transfer rates 5-30 times faster than today's DVDs, and at similarly low costs.
This invention was recently recognized as a winner of the Nanotech Briefs' Nano 50 awards in its product category. The Nano 50 awards are given to the "best of the best" in the industry - the innovative people and designs that will move nano-technology to key mainstream markets.
Iomega is working to investigate the commercial feasibility of this format and other nano-structural data encoding formats. One possibility being investigated, termed NG-DVD (Nano-Grating - DVD), uses nano-gratings to encode multi-level information via reflectivity, polarization, phase, and reflective orientation multiplexing. Iomega is concurrently evaluating and developing appropriate partners to leverage this intellectual property for producing commercial data storage devices.
"Subwavelength optical data storage can provide an array of mechanisms by which the state of a focused spot of light upon reflection can be precisely changed. This is the key to new commercially interesting multi-level optical data storage that this technology represents," commented Fred Thomas, Chief Technologist, Research and Development, Iomega Corporation.
"The nano-replication technologies that are used to fabricate these structures at low-cost are just emerging from various labs. I believe the scope of Iomega patents issued and pending in this area, in conjunction with these exciting new nano-replication technologies, will make this a fertile area for optical data storage development and innovation for years to come. As high definition content becomes more pervasive, Iomega sees significant technology partnership and licensing opportunities for this intellectual property."
Thomas will present an overview of subwavelength optical data storage technology at the prestigious Information Storage Industry Consortium (INSIC) symposium in July in Monterey, CA.
The patent covers a novel technique of encoding data on the surface of a DVD by using reflective nano-structures to encode data in a highly multi-level format. This technology, termed AO-DVD (Articulated Optical - Digital Versatile Disc), allows more data to be stored on a DVD and could allow future optical discs to potentially hold 40-100 times more information with data transfer rates 5-30 times faster than today's DVDs, and at similarly low costs.
This invention was recently recognized as a winner of the Nanotech Briefs' Nano 50 awards in its product category. The Nano 50 awards are given to the "best of the best" in the industry - the innovative people and designs that will move nano-technology to key mainstream markets.
Iomega is working to investigate the commercial feasibility of this format and other nano-structural data encoding formats. One possibility being investigated, termed NG-DVD (Nano-Grating - DVD), uses nano-gratings to encode multi-level information via reflectivity, polarization, phase, and reflective orientation multiplexing. Iomega is concurrently evaluating and developing appropriate partners to leverage this intellectual property for producing commercial data storage devices.
"Subwavelength optical data storage can provide an array of mechanisms by which the state of a focused spot of light upon reflection can be precisely changed. This is the key to new commercially interesting multi-level optical data storage that this technology represents," commented Fred Thomas, Chief Technologist, Research and Development, Iomega Corporation.
"The nano-replication technologies that are used to fabricate these structures at low-cost are just emerging from various labs. I believe the scope of Iomega patents issued and pending in this area, in conjunction with these exciting new nano-replication technologies, will make this a fertile area for optical data storage development and innovation for years to come. As high definition content becomes more pervasive, Iomega sees significant technology partnership and licensing opportunities for this intellectual property."
Thomas will present an overview of subwavelength optical data storage technology at the prestigious Information Storage Industry Consortium (INSIC) symposium in July in Monterey, CA.
Post by: mikeandbandit on June 16, 2005, 03:01:00 PM
Post by: nj12nets on June 16, 2005, 03:11:00 PM
QUOTE(sunkist @ Jun 16 2005, 03:07 PM)
There are 100GB Blu-Ray disks as well. I never bend, hit or put lots of force on my DVD/CDs so I wouldnt do it to my higher up media either, unless I planned to get new ones. They all have downsides so I say bigger storage is best since thats the only reason these new formats are coming out.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: sunkist on June 16, 2005, 03:16:00 PM
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Post by: sunkist on June 16, 2005, 03:16:00 PM
QUOTE(mikeandbandit @ Jun 16 2005, 03:12 PM)
the advantage which bluray cant even begin to touch is that hddvd can put both standard resolution disks and hd resolution on one disk, meaning that single disk would be playable in BOTH a regular dvd drive and a hd drive. thus it can be seemlessly intergrated into the movie industry with almost no backlash.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: sunkist on June 16, 2005, 04:20:00 PM
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DVDs still are not fully understood by most people, they just buy them cause its hard to find VHS anymore. I have talked to many people who do not knwo what the difference is. HD-DVD will be the easiest to transition to but it will be many years of uglyness as two formats fight for a small niche market. Sucks for the consumer, unless prices drop a lot because of it. Maybe there will be dual readers like DVD+-R drives have become.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: Carlo210 on June 16, 2005, 04:55:00 PM
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Post by: sunkist on June 16, 2005, 04:20:00 PM
Post by: Carlo210 on June 16, 2005, 04:55:00 PM
QUOTE(sunkist @ Jun 16 2005, 11:27 PM)
People moved from VHS to DVD and there was nothing the same, but I am not a BLU-RAY fanboy I just want one format, whichever it is. I think if PS3 has Blu-ray that will be a big push like it did for DVDs but if Xbox releases a new version it wont be as big a push because the "old" DVD version will be cheaper so people will probably just continue to buy that. If they get rid of the old version than the people who first bough an Xbox360 on release day will feel cheated that they have an inferior product.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: CattyKid on June 16, 2005, 04:55:00 PM
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Post by: CattyKid on June 16, 2005, 04:55:00 PM
QUOTE(ninjax @ Jun 16 2005, 04:24 PM)
An 800GB DVD has been patented recently, which blows the doors off of any Blu-Ray media out there. DVD is still considerably faster then Blu-Ray as far as search times and load times are concerned. HDDVD is still DVD, and is fully backwards compatible with normal DVD's in every case I have heard. As far as I am concerned DVD will remain to be the format for a very, very long time.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: nj12nets on June 16, 2005, 06:55:00 PM
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Post by: nj12nets on June 16, 2005, 06:55:00 PM
QUOTE(CattyKid @ Jun 16 2005, 07:06 PM)
Is that a typo?
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: sunkist on June 16, 2005, 09:54:00 PM
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You will need a new DVD player to see the High Definition version but not the Standard defenition (or ED) that can be on ther as well form what I have heard. The HD-DVD players may not be as expensive to make though since that are similar to standard DVD players now. Blu-ray DVD players would use very different technology.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: twistedsymphony on June 17, 2005, 04:46:00 AM
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Post by: sunkist on June 16, 2005, 09:54:00 PM
Post by: twistedsymphony on June 17, 2005, 04:46:00 AM
QUOTE(microsizeboy @ Jun 17 2005, 12:56 AM)
I fully agree with you. Most people buy DVDs because many stores don't carry vhs anymore and they don't care about what features their DVD player has like progressive scan. People are forced to buy a DVD player... probably just buy the cheapest one (the 30 something ones from walmart) and that's a pain for them. The mainstream won't even think about bluray because of the price.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: Twasi on June 17, 2005, 05:25:00 AM
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Thats why HD-dvd has a much better chance of winning the medium war.
- Companies don't have to buy all new equipement to make them
- They are cheaper than Blu-ray
- They can hold just as much
- Cheaper players
I believe this is why Sony wanted a uniform medium in the first place. They knew if it came to the two types clashing they would have a hard time winning. As for the 800GB disk using nano-technology. You would most deffinetly need a new player because the way they read it is so precise you couldn't just update the firmware to tell the laser how to read it, you would need a specialized player and the room for error needs to be reduced so it can't vibrate and such. I don't know if that will also pertain to blu-ray and HD-dvd but I'm certain it will with any high storage devices such as a 800gig DVD. It shall be interesting to see if the public adopts blu-ray and HD-dvd now or waits a few years for nano-technology to produce far superior product that can be mass produced.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: ninjax on June 17, 2005, 07:07:00 AM
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Post by: Twasi on June 17, 2005, 05:25:00 AM
- Companies don't have to buy all new equipement to make them
- They are cheaper than Blu-ray
- They can hold just as much
- Cheaper players
I believe this is why Sony wanted a uniform medium in the first place. They knew if it came to the two types clashing they would have a hard time winning. As for the 800GB disk using nano-technology. You would most deffinetly need a new player because the way they read it is so precise you couldn't just update the firmware to tell the laser how to read it, you would need a specialized player and the room for error needs to be reduced so it can't vibrate and such. I don't know if that will also pertain to blu-ray and HD-dvd but I'm certain it will with any high storage devices such as a 800gig DVD. It shall be interesting to see if the public adopts blu-ray and HD-dvd now or waits a few years for nano-technology to produce far superior product that can be mass produced.
Post by: ninjax on June 17, 2005, 07:07:00 AM
QUOTE(Twasi @ Jun 17 2005, 07:36 AM)
Thats why HD-dvd has a much better chance of winning the medium war.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: sunkist on June 19, 2005, 11:51:00 AM
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Post by: sunkist on June 19, 2005, 11:51:00 AM
QUOTE(ZakMcRofl @ Jun 19 2005, 07:39 AM)
Someone stated earlier that games couldn't take advantage of a later switch to HD-DVD. But what if M$ would allow games to be stored on the HD as well as on the backward-compatible DVD layer? They could even use the same binary or a minor recompile with --HD, just display cutscenes (or other video content) in HD-DVD instead of DVD.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: twistedsymphony on June 20, 2005, 09:35:00 AM
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NO JOKE, I've read that a lot of hollywood is waiting to see which format the porn industry supports seeing as they release more movies than anyone else and has the clout to sway the industry one way or another.
As for the "speed comparison" saying DVDs have a transfer rate of 11.08MB/s is completely bogus.
That is the transfer rate PER SPEED.
so a SINGLE SPEED DVD drive has a transfer rate of 11.08MB/s
meaning that the 4x dvd drive in the current gen Xbox is around 44MB/s!!!! Wow that's already faster than the first gen HD-DVD discs... Not to mention that due to the fragility of the BRD Sony hasn't yet been able to achieve 1X speeds.
The only reason the "transfer rate" per speed is different is because it's directly related to the disc's data resolution. 1X means the disc is spinning at 500RPM at its fastest (this is on the inside of the disc, the outside spins at about 350RPM for 1x) so if the disc holds 1.32MB of data in a single pass on the inside you'll end up with an "estimated transfer rate" of 11.08MB/s per speed.
So IF the BRD could spin at 500RPM they would be able to collect at a rate of 54MB/s unfortunately they can't get them to spin that fast... not to mention if they try to increase the speed they'll begin to run into bandwidth limitations with the actual hardware. Considering HD-DVD is physically constructed in a similar way to current DVDs... they'll have far less problems getting 2X 4X etc. drives out
For comparison the 360 will have a 12x DVD drive meaning the transfer speed will be 133MB/s... compare that to the 1X BRD @ 54MB/s that will be included with the PS3 and ask yourself which format has the better/more reliable data rates.
As for storage space saying the HD-DVD has a max capacity of 30GB is not longer true... Toshiba found a way to use multi-layer (read: three or more layer) storage meaning that they can increase the capacity to the same levels that the BRDs are achieving with their multi-layer versions... So the two new formats are on level playing fields in that respect... go back and consider the other advantages/disadvantages.
---not trying to attack anyone just clearing up a lot of misnomers about the number people keep throwing around.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: deftonesmx17 on June 20, 2005, 11:27:00 AM
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And below is all I have to say to that ^
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: ninjax on June 20, 2005, 11:35:00 AM
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Post by: twistedsymphony on June 20, 2005, 09:35:00 AM
As for the "speed comparison" saying DVDs have a transfer rate of 11.08MB/s is completely bogus.
That is the transfer rate PER SPEED.
so a SINGLE SPEED DVD drive has a transfer rate of 11.08MB/s
meaning that the 4x dvd drive in the current gen Xbox is around 44MB/s!!!! Wow that's already faster than the first gen HD-DVD discs... Not to mention that due to the fragility of the BRD Sony hasn't yet been able to achieve 1X speeds.
The only reason the "transfer rate" per speed is different is because it's directly related to the disc's data resolution. 1X means the disc is spinning at 500RPM at its fastest (this is on the inside of the disc, the outside spins at about 350RPM for 1x) so if the disc holds 1.32MB of data in a single pass on the inside you'll end up with an "estimated transfer rate" of 11.08MB/s per speed.
So IF the BRD could spin at 500RPM they would be able to collect at a rate of 54MB/s unfortunately they can't get them to spin that fast... not to mention if they try to increase the speed they'll begin to run into bandwidth limitations with the actual hardware. Considering HD-DVD is physically constructed in a similar way to current DVDs... they'll have far less problems getting 2X 4X etc. drives out
For comparison the 360 will have a 12x DVD drive meaning the transfer speed will be 133MB/s... compare that to the 1X BRD @ 54MB/s that will be included with the PS3 and ask yourself which format has the better/more reliable data rates.
As for storage space saying the HD-DVD has a max capacity of 30GB is not longer true... Toshiba found a way to use multi-layer (read: three or more layer) storage meaning that they can increase the capacity to the same levels that the BRDs are achieving with their multi-layer versions... So the two new formats are on level playing fields in that respect... go back and consider the other advantages/disadvantages.
---not trying to attack anyone just clearing up a lot of misnomers about the number people keep throwing around.
Post by: deftonesmx17 on June 20, 2005, 11:27:00 AM
QUOTE(ninjax @ Jun 17 2005, 09:18 AM)
Blu Ray isnt even a disk, its like a zip drive.
And below is all I have to say to that ^
QUOTE
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/
1.10 Will Blu-ray discs require a cartridge?
No, the development of new cost-effective hard-coating technologies has made the cartridge obsolete. Blu-ray will instead rely on hard-coating for protection, which when applied will make the discs even more resistant to scratches and fingerprints than todays DVDs, while still preserving the same look and feel. The adoption of hard-coating will also allow manufacturers to downsize players/drives and lower their overall media production costs.
1.10 Will Blu-ray discs require a cartridge?
No, the development of new cost-effective hard-coating technologies has made the cartridge obsolete. Blu-ray will instead rely on hard-coating for protection, which when applied will make the discs even more resistant to scratches and fingerprints than todays DVDs, while still preserving the same look and feel. The adoption of hard-coating will also allow manufacturers to downsize players/drives and lower their overall media production costs.
Post by: ninjax on June 20, 2005, 11:35:00 AM
QUOTE(deftonesmx17 @ Jun 20 2005, 01:38 PM)
And below is all I have to say to that ^
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: deftonesmx17 on June 20, 2005, 11:39:00 AM
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Yes it has been done. It is just a hard version of those D-Skin things. HD-DVD supposedly is going to use it also. It is all because of the fact that one little scratch would kill data that compressed.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: incognegro on June 20, 2005, 12:13:00 PM
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Why sony had blu ray discs in cases like dvd-ram discs at e3 during the ps3 unveiling?
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: deftonesmx17 on June 20, 2005, 12:50:00 PM
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Post by: deftonesmx17 on June 20, 2005, 11:39:00 AM
Post by: incognegro on June 20, 2005, 12:13:00 PM
Post by: deftonesmx17 on June 20, 2005, 12:50:00 PM
QUOTE(incognegro @ Jun 20 2005, 02:24 PM)
Why sony had blu ray discs in cases like dvd-ram discs at e3 during the ps3 unveiling?
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: twistedsymphony on June 20, 2005, 01:10:00 PM
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Post by: twistedsymphony on June 20, 2005, 01:10:00 PM
QUOTE(incognegro @ Jun 20 2005, 02:24 PM)
Why sony had blu ray discs in cases like dvd-ram discs at e3 during the ps3 unveiling?
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: |Buddha| on June 21, 2005, 01:16:00 AM
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deftonesmx17: HD-DVD uses .6mm protective layer BRD uses the .1mm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD-DVD
^^^ Has some more info aswell.
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Title: Hd-dvd
Post by: twistedsymphony on June 21, 2005, 04:45:00 AM
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Post by: |Buddha| on June 21, 2005, 01:16:00 AM
deftonesmx17: HD-DVD uses .6mm protective layer BRD uses the .1mm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD-DVD
^^^ Has some more info aswell.
Post by: twistedsymphony on June 21, 2005, 04:45:00 AM
QUOTE(Jzor @ Jun 21 2005, 01:07 AM)
FYI. If the inside is spinning at 500RPM, the outside will be spinning at 500RPM as well.