Post by: Xbox-Scene on November 10, 2011, 10:15:00 PM
Dae.bin Has Changed in Xbox 360 Fall 2011 Preview Dash Posted by XanTium | November 11 00:15 EST | News Category: Xbox360 |
| From http://c4evaspeaks.com/dae-bin-has-changed-in-xbox-360-fall-2011-preview-dash-2-0-14686-0/: Quote
News-Source: http://c4evaspeaks.com/dae-bin-has-changed-in-xbox-360-fall-2011-preview-dash-2-0-14686-0/ |
Post by: X4life3 on November 10, 2011, 11:26:00 PM
Post by: Hey12389 on November 10, 2011, 11:40:00 PM
Post by: krizalid on November 11, 2011, 12:45:00 AM
QUOTE(Hey12389 @ Nov 11 2011, 01:40 AM) 
So all the games with ap25 are going to have to be reburned with the new dae.bin?
That's what we normally have to go through.... so I guess that's a yeah...
I wish there would be a firmware to bypass AP25 fully and be offline... yes.. no LIVE!!!
Post by: ddxcb on November 11, 2011, 01:23:00 AM
Post by: evans05 on November 11, 2011, 01:38:00 AM
QUOTE(ddxcb @ Nov 11 2011, 09:23 AM) 
Yea the beta register tool, checks the security files, lawl.
i tried booting 2 back-ups and got disk unsuported, damn you microsoft flags
Post by: NADGG106 on November 11, 2011, 01:46:00 AM
with no flags 
Post by: goodey200 on November 11, 2011, 02:25:00 AM
Post by: evans05 on November 11, 2011, 02:29:00 AM
QUOTE(goodey200 @ Nov 11 2011, 10:25 AM)
so even, xbg3 rips need to be reburned also?
hmm strange, the 2 rips that were unsupported last night on my xbox after preview update, are supported today and running fine. now that is a strange one, unless the checks change everyday, like a rotating ap.25 file??
Post by: ddxcb on November 11, 2011, 02:50:00 AM
QUOTE(NADGG106 @ Nov 11 2011, 01:46 AM)
all backups even xgd3 burner max backups booting on my non ap25 sammy
with no flags beta sign tool prob report modded firmware
Post by: bodybag on November 11, 2011, 03:51:00 AM
QUOTE(evans05 @ Nov 11 2011, 09:29 AM)
hmm strange, the 2 rips that were unsupported last night on my xbox after preview update, are supported today and running fine. now that is a strange one, unless the checks change everyday, like a rotating ap.25 file??
I did read somewhere that MS has the ability to change the dae.bin values on the fly if they wanted too. After reading you post, it seems to be the fact.
Post by: domina on November 11, 2011, 04:40:00 AM
QUOTE(krizalid @ Nov 11 2011, 09:45 AM)
That's what we normally have to go through.... so I guess that's a yeah...
I wish there would be a firmware to bypass AP25 fully and be offline... yes.. no LIVE!!!
Sounds like reset glitch hack to me
. I would recommend this to everyone who dont use live.
Post by: Drefsab on November 11, 2011, 04:50:00 AM
Post by: tarektaha on November 11, 2011, 05:04:00 AM
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Am...cF9JSWs3VmhBNXc
This post has been edited by tarektaha: Nov 11 2011, 01:16 PM
Post by: onlyXMan on November 11, 2011, 05:39:00 AM
Post by: dbldown768 on November 11, 2011, 07:46:00 AM
Guess I might have to look into RGH or one of those xk3ys.
Post by: BoNg420 on November 11, 2011, 08:30:00 AM
QUOTE(dbldown768 @ Nov 11 2011, 09:46 AM)
so if i have an offline xbox and it gets flagged, what happens? Nothing until you sign on to live?
Guess I might have to look into RGH or one of those xk3ys.
If your box is flagged it wont necessary be a ban. Probably depends on how many times it happens because it is possible for legit games to give a false positive. Though they probably look for people who are unfamiliar with firmware and all the updates that happen. These would be people who don't reburn their copies of AP25 games and continue to try the game over and over getting flagged each time because they don't understand why their game is saying unsupported disc.
If you were to go with RGH or xk3ys it would probably be cheaper to go RGH, but only if you have all the equipment, but in the end it would probably be cheaper to have someone do it for you below $100 for someone else to do the RGH + cost of chip. If you don't have your own equipment the RGH hack would probably cost you $25 for the chip, you need a programmer for your nand and possibly to program your RGH chip as well, the programmer for the nand could be anywhere from $20-50 and you could probably get or make one to program the RGH chip for like $5-15 and then you need a soldering iron and solder and other such supplies.
In the end you get more out of the RGH and the xk3y is gonna cost you over $100 and not give you the same functionality the RGH would give.
Post by: Redsquirrel on November 11, 2011, 09:20:00 AM
However, he still can go online and play. BUT he cant use his profile in other systems as it says its currupt.
Post by: InsaneNutter on November 11, 2011, 09:32:00 AM
QUOTE(Redsquirrel @ Nov 11 2011, 05:20 PM)
However, he still can go online and play. BUT he cant use his profile in other systems as it says its currupt.
That's what happens when your console is flagged, saves and profiles signed by that console will only work on that console from now on.
Post by: looneeii on November 11, 2011, 09:56:00 AM
Post by: joliverio on November 11, 2011, 10:00:00 AM
Post by: kl1k on November 11, 2011, 10:50:00 AM
QUOTE(Drefsab @ Nov 11 2011, 01:50 PM)
yup rsg/jtag and then never have to give a damn about firmware, flags, burning discs etc so much easier
So glad I did the rgh to my falcon.
Post by: gabe681 on November 11, 2011, 11:24:00 AM
Post by: klbarnes1 on November 11, 2011, 11:36:00 AM
Post by: vv uk garf vv on November 11, 2011, 12:27:00 PM
QUOTE(joliverio @ Nov 11 2011, 05:00 PM)
Just a few games are worthy to play on Live, it really does not make any sense anymore to have just one console for "everything"; play your backups only in an offline console and original ones in a "Live" console. Your life will be much easier
couldn't agree more
Post by: pperez664 on November 11, 2011, 12:30:00 PM
Post by: klbarnes1 on November 11, 2011, 12:53:00 PM
Post by: Jumpy_Beans on November 11, 2011, 01:06:00 PM
Post by: tomgreen99200 on November 11, 2011, 01:21:00 PM
QUOTE(Jumpy_Beans @ Nov 11 2011, 03:06 PM) 
Does anyone know if this will affect Hitachi drives since ap2.5 didn't have have an affect on them?
Correct, most Hitachi drives aren't capable of reading ap2.5. If you have one of those then you are fine.
Post by: AmyGrrl on November 11, 2011, 01:56:00 PM
QUOTE(klbarnes1 @ Nov 11 2011, 01:36 PM)
I don't understad, so we don't have to update our firmware but we have re-burn all ap 2.5 & xgd3 games? Or just ap 2.5 games, or just xgd3 games? Or neither? Does anyone know for sure, I really don't care as I get discs for less then $1/each, so even if I have to burn the same game 10x, it really wouldn't bother me.
You don't have to update the firmware on the 360. But if you want to play on XBOX Live! then you have to update the firmware. Now sometimes when a new Dashboard/Firmware gets released it includes a new dae.bin file. This file contains the new AP2.5 challenge/responses. This means all AP2.5 Games need to be re-burned with the new responses. I should note here that AP2.5 Games are not true 1:1 backups. We just don't have the space to fit all the responses on a burned discs. There are far to many of them. I find it very funny that people act all surprised when they have to burn AP2.5 Games again. This has happened several times already. Its not anything new.
I was thinking in the future it would be nice if we could dump all the responses for a game to a txt file. Then when a new dashboard comes out with a new dae.bin file. We could then use the new dae.bin and the txt to re-patch the Game's ISO. This way we wouldn't have to rely on others to re-dump the AP2.5 data from a retail disc and provide them for us. Granted I don't fully know all the details of AP2.5. This txt file could be really huge in size for all I know.
Post by: Aldanga on November 11, 2011, 02:55:00 PM
QUOTE(looneeii @ Nov 11 2011, 10:56 AM)
I don't get it...for those of us who ripped our own bought game does that mean we have to re-rip and then insert a new dae? Since I thought the rip I did on my own FM4 was 1:1. Wasn't it?
Rips are never 1:1, due to differing manufacturing processes of consumer and retail discs.
Post by: looneeii on November 11, 2011, 03:54:00 PM
QUOTE(Aldanga @ Nov 11 2011, 04:55 PM)
Rips are never 1:1, due to differing manufacturing processes of consumer and retail discs.
Ok I get it, only considered 1:1 until a new DAE.BIN shows up.
Post by: Aldanga on November 11, 2011, 04:21:00 PM
Post by: shadowbroker on November 11, 2011, 05:01:00 PM
... just installed the new beta dash a moment ago, and was able to install skyrim to HDD as normal, but not play it "unsupported" and mw3 is also "unsupported" shows the games in the tray, but will not play. B***ards.
really odd way this time, like its still flashed due to showing the title in tray, but not letting me play.
Post by: ruciz on November 11, 2011, 05:09:00 PM
QUOTE(looneeii @ Nov 11 2011, 05:56 PM)
I don't get it...for those of us who ripped our own bought game does that mean we have to re-rip and then insert a new dae? Since I thought the rip I did on my own FM4 was 1:1. Wasn't it?
Another point, if it was 1:1 - you wouldn't need to modify the 360 in any way.
By the reports it seems like MS finally got the 'keyrolling' working in some fashion without modifying the drive's firmware.
Does being connected or disconnected from LIVE affect anything?
Post by: Unimatrix47 on November 11, 2011, 05:33:00 PM
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
NOPE!!!!
Muh Hu HAhahahaha...
Post by: filletofish on November 11, 2011, 05:41:00 PM
QUOTE(AmyGrrl @ Nov 11 2011, 10:56 PM)
You don't have to update the firmware on the 360. But if you want to play on XBOX Live! then you have to update the firmware. Now sometimes when a new Dashboard/Firmware gets released it includes a new dae.bin file. This file contains the new AP2.5 challenge/responses. This means all AP2.5 Games need to be re-burned with the new responses. I should note here that AP2.5 Games are not true 1:1 backups. We just don't have the space to fit all the responses on a burned discs. There are far to many of them. I find it very funny that people act all surprised when they have to burn AP2.5 Games again. This has happened several times already. Its not anything new.
I was thinking in the future it would be nice if we could dump all the responses for a game to a txt file. Then when a new dashboard comes out with a new dae.bin file. We could then use the new dae.bin and the txt to re-patch the Game's ISO. This way we wouldn't have to rely on others to re-dump the AP2.5 data from a retail disc and provide them for us. Granted I don't fully know all the details of AP2.5. This txt file could be really huge in size for all I know.
You have no idea how AP2.5 works.
It is a physical measurement of angles of where certain data is stored on a disk relative to other data. The challenge\response isn't some cryptographic secret code, it's simply the physical measurment. It would be impossible to store this data on the disk, or in a text file as it would take thousands of terrabytes...PER DISK!
QUOTE(shadowbroker @ Nov 12 2011, 02:01 AM)
was able to play mw3 and skyrim no problem today...
... just installed the new beta dash a moment ago, and was able to install skyrim to HDD as normal, but not play it "unsupported" and mw3 is also "unsupported" shows the games in the tray, but will not play. B***ards.
really odd way this time, like its still flashed due to showing the title in tray, but not letting me play.
You're using a crappy truncated burnt iso. Best give that information before misleading people there is a "problem".
Post by: Dermy on November 11, 2011, 05:58:00 PM
QUOTE
We can confirm though that these changes will indeed necessitate new versions of and/or changes to Xbox Backup Creator, abgx360, and several other associated tools.
Does this mean that an entirely different retail rip will be needed for dashboard 14686? If they have to change how XBC works, then it might mean that more than just the AP2.5 data has changed. It sounds like it might not be as simple as patching new AP2.5 data into existing ISOs with ABGX360 (which still hasn't been updated for XGD3 atm) and reburning like usual. If changes were made, I wonder if they were made to XGD2 games with AP2.5 as well as XGD3 games.
Any thoughts?
Post by: DodgeM4s on November 11, 2011, 06:11:00 PM
QUOTE(klbarnes1 @ Nov 11 2011, 08:53 PM)
People go through the trouble because most people want to be able to play their backups online, jtag/rgh/xkey cannot do this (play online), that is why!
I dont think there has been any reports of bans from people using an xkey online yet.
Post by: filletofish on November 11, 2011, 06:32:00 PM
QUOTE(Dermy @ Nov 12 2011, 02:58 AM)
Does this mean that an entirely different retail rip will be needed for dashboard 14686? If they have to change how XBC works, then it might mean that more than just the AP2.5 data has changed. It sounds like it might not be as simple as patching new AP2.5 data into existing ISOs with ABGX360 (which still hasn't been updated for XGD3 atm) and reburning like usual. If changes were made, I wonder if they were made to XGD2 games with AP2.5 as well as XGD3 games.
Any thoughts?
No it doesn't, where on earth did you get that idea?
Post by: bubbafett4hire on November 11, 2011, 06:41:00 PM
1st) This is almost no different then every other time a new dash comes out with different AP2.5 data with the need for re-burning backups with proper info, many of you should expect this by now as we've gone through this how many times already.
2nd) Why would you opt to put a beta update on your flashed machine when you know almost every past update they have changed AP25 data as well as other hidden items and wonder why backups won't boot.
3rd) Everyone who's jumping the gun thinking this is a bad thing needs to remember that XBC isn't even fully done yet as the current version of XBC still can't burn XGD3 discs , and we are still waiting for a new ABGX beyond this new change.
Everyone take a pill or smoke somthing and relax!!! people are working on it and jumping to speculation is just going to put out bad information when we have no real facts yet other then a DAE table change and C4E saying we will need some new software
QUOTE(DodgeM4s @ Nov 11 2011, 08:11 PM)
I dont think there has been any reports of bans from people using an xkey online yet.
According to C4E he claims he knows of 2 already being banned using xkey
Post by: Mehtevas on November 11, 2011, 07:02:00 PM
QUOTE(filletofish @ Nov 11 2011, 08:41 PM)
You have no idea how AP2.5 works.
It is a physical measurement of angles of where certain data is stored on a disk relative to other data. The challenge\response isn't some cryptographic secret code, it's simply the physical measurment. It would be impossible to store this data on the disk, or in a text file as it would take thousands of terrabytes...PER DISK!
You're using a crappy truncated burnt iso. Best give that information before misleading people there is a "problem".
So what I get from that is I won't have to reburn all these XGD3 discs I burnt for my kids because I bought the iHas burner and Verbs and did it right to begin with?
I don't mind reburning them after patching them but it'd be nice to not have to with my 100% verified burns.
Knowing my luck, probably will have to anyway for the new ap2.5 data lol.
Post by: Dermy on November 11, 2011, 07:37:00 PM
QUOTE(filletofish @ Nov 11 2011, 09:32 PM)
No it doesn't, where on earth did you get that idea?
I agree that we probably should wait for more info instead of speculating.
Post by: DARKFiB3R on November 11, 2011, 08:09:00 PM
QUOTE(Aldanga @ Nov 11 2011, 11:21 PM)
No, they're never, ever, in any circumstances considered 1:1. The data on the disc is all ripped, but the discs are not exact copies. Consumer recordable media is done with dye. Retail media is done by laser etching. The laser-etched discs have angles, while the dye does not. Thus, backup media are not exact replicas of the retail media.
The master discs are produced using various laser methods. Retail discs are pressed/stamped from this master.
The result is the same of course, i.e. the pits having angles which cannot be reproduced on recordable media.
Post by: HotKnife420 on November 11, 2011, 09:39:00 PM
- Is the AP2.5 data only physical angle measurements, or is there other data as well?
- If the physical disc does not change, why does the measurement?
- Have these 'angle measurements' potentially limited dvd performance (ie: increased load times to stop and measure)?
- Are there still only 6 titles who's AP2.5 data has been activated?
Post by: klbarnes1 on November 11, 2011, 09:57:00 PM
QUOTE(HotKnife420 @ Nov 12 2011, 12:39 AM)
I think there's a general confusion regarding how AP2.5, and more specifically, how it translates to the end-user. I will admit, I am amongst the confused, and I will try and ask some direct questions, if anyone cares to field them:
- Is the AP2.5 data only physical angle measurements, or is there other data as well?
- If the physical disc does not change, why does the measurement?
- Have these 'angle measurements' potentially limited dvd performance (ie: increased load times to stop and measure)?
- Are there still only 6 titles who's AP2.5 data has been activated?
I was wondering the same thing, is their still only 6 AP2.5 games, also does any of the new XGD3 games even have AP2.5? I'm assuming they do, because I believe all games have it but MS only activated it on those 6 games (so far anyhow), does anyone know for sure if any of the new XGD3 games have AP2.5 activated yet?
Post by: dradra on November 11, 2011, 10:34:00 PM
Calculating the angle from two different sectors in the disk will be practically infinite. But save the coordinates of every sector in the disk not. two doubles per every sector. With that information, it'll be possible to replay every angle. The storage needed will be ~1/128 the size of the DVD without compression.
And If the XBOX 360 DVD ROM is only capable of reading angles between sectors, and not positions, it's also possible mathematically (I Think) deduce the positions, from angle differences.
Post by: Spark on November 12, 2011, 12:55:00 AM
QUOTE(klbarnes1 @ Nov 12 2011, 06:57 AM)
I was wondering the same thing, is their still only 6 AP2.5 games, also does any of the new XGD3 games even have AP2.5? I'm assuming they do, because I believe all games have it but MS only activated it on those 6 games (so far anyhow), does anyone know for sure if any of the new XGD3 games have AP2.5 activated yet?
I believe that all of the XGD3 titles use it. For some reason it never really took off for XGD2, never could quite understand the MS strategy on that actually.
Post by: SoulInDeed on November 12, 2011, 01:37:00 AM
Post by: Aldanga on November 12, 2011, 02:46:00 AM
Post by: tripkip on November 12, 2011, 03:53:00 AM
Post by: Friks on November 12, 2011, 04:32:00 AM
QUOTE(tripkip @ Nov 12 2011, 11:53 AM)
All current XGD3 titles are AP25-active.
True , anyway from what i read here i also believe that any new XGD3 burn that i make now is just to send it to the "trash" right ? i mean if i want to play on-line with it
.Post by: tarektaha on November 12, 2011, 06:16:00 AM
QUOTE(tripkip @ Nov 12 2011, 12:53 PM)
All current XGD3 titles are AP25-active.
But abgx only lists few games that are AP25? This has changed with XGD3? So every game that is XGD3 has ap2.5 and its backup will not playnon the new dash? Or only some xgd3 only?
Post by: dradra on November 12, 2011, 06:35:00 AM
If every sector size and the laser path size is the same. It'll possible to create a mathematically equation. That knowing the start sector position, the end sector position of the disk, and the number of sectors. it'll give any sector position inside the disk.
Post by: Weirdjerz3y on November 12, 2011, 07:13:00 AM
Post by: filletofish on November 12, 2011, 07:43:00 AM
QUOTE(Mehtevas @ Nov 12 2011, 04:02 AM)
So what I get from that is I won't have to reburn all these XGD3 discs I burnt for my kids because I bought the iHas burner and Verbs and did it right to begin with?
I don't mind reburning them after patching them but it'd be nice to not have to with my 100% verified burns.
Knowing my luck, probably will have to anyway for the new ap2.5 data lol.
You WILL have ti reburn - that is beyond question.
There's 2 problems that are seperate, 1 a new dae.bin, so different parts of the disk are checked for information that isn't there on current backups, so the dae.bin is ripped and those challenges are added to the patches that get released and are available through ABGX360, so you then run your iso through ABGX360 making your iso work with the latest dash with no problems.
The other problem for some is that they are burning disks with normal dvd writer and thus only burning 97% of the iso, this will almost undoubtedly be detectable and games will either fail to boot, give an error in game or get you flagged. There are reports of MW3 definately not booting at all with latest title update and new dash with burns made through this method. It's outdated and not to be used anymore. You may read the odd cretin swear by it if you pirate your games from usenet nzb\torrent listing sites (these people are generally ignorant children and the idea of spending money on something that "already works" is not a happy proposition).
Neither of these are really problems though, use a proper iHAS burner like it sounds you are, wait for ABGX360 to get released and patch your ISO and there we go, sorted.
QUOTE(Weirdjerz3y @ Nov 12 2011, 04:13 PM)
You know, the only thing I never got was, why try now. To stop backups on xbox. They're going to release a new xbox in about a year two years, the xbox360 life is dying. Why spend money and resources on stopping it now? I dont see the point. Did companies finally complain? That people have been going online with backups for years? I understand the point that if something is yours u want to protect it, but when u had it for a while, and u know ur getting a new one in a bit don't bother. That's what I think, maybe you guys have better reason for trying so hard right now. If I didn't make sense somewhere tell me, I'm typing this early in the morning.
It doesn't cost a company much to update the dae.bin when they are releasing a new dashboard anyway Vs allowing stupid people who don't know about updating their backups to play them longer and force them to actually pay for some games.
QUOTE(tarektaha @ Nov 12 2011, 03:16 PM)
But abgx only lists few games that are AP25? This has changed with XGD3? So every game that is XGD3 has ap2.5 and its backup will not playnon the new dash? Or only some xgd3 only?
Previous dashboard updates have only changed certain games, some haven't changed. Someone made a table somewhere to show this...do a google. However, all XGD3 games use AP2.5. It's likely that all XGD3 games will have new challenge sector locations.
QUOTE(Friks @ Nov 12 2011, 01:32 PM)
True , anyway from what i read here i also believe that any new XGD3 burn that i make now is just to send it to the "trash" right ? i mean if i want to play on-line with it
.Pretty much.
QUOTE(klbarnes1 @ Nov 12 2011, 06:57 AM)
I was wondering the same thing, is their still only 6 AP2.5 games, also does any of the new XGD3 games even have AP2.5? I'm assuming they do, because I believe all games have it but MS only activated it on those 6 games (so far anyhow), does anyone know for sure if any of the new XGD3 games have AP2.5 activated yet?
There's about 30-ish AP2.5 games available now, all are AP2.5 released in the past month except some esoteric collections\japanesey type shooters\low budget one that were mastered a few months ago and not actually released then. You will be hard pushed to find a game that isn't using AP2.5 released from now on and everything is being phased over (well, already is phased over).
QUOTE(dradra @ Nov 12 2011, 07:34 AM)
I have a suggestion:
Calculating the angle from two different sectors in the disk will be practically infinite. But save the coordinates of every sector in the disk not. two doubles per every sector. With that information, it'll be possible to replay every angle. The storage needed will be ~1/128 the size of the DVD without compression.
And If the XBOX 360 DVD ROM is only capable of reading angles between sectors, and not positions, it's also possible mathematically (I Think) deduce the positions, from angle differences.
This is what emulation software does on PC games that use this type of protection. This data is stored in the signature of a burnt disk\iso. It didn't take long to overcome this type of protection although a universal fix is only available through emulating the needed data that the copy protection requests and not a 1:1 backup...although some drives could make a 1:1, certainly not all and those alleged 1:1 backups weren't playable on all readers. It's actually quite an old one although about as advanced as disk based protection ever became. We're going back to 2005 here though.
Post by: ruciz on November 12, 2011, 08:02:00 AM
patches will need to be re-ripped and ISO's reburnt to work with the newest dashboard. Without the newest dashboard newest games don't work. with newest dashboard already made backups are good to be ripped with an RGH system
So what we see from this is 100% burns are necessary and that 30+ titles AP2.5/XGD3 will need to be reburnt for this dashboard round... Those with common sense won't reburn all 30 backups - as they are a 'time-based' thing now, and would prove to be wasting discs as guess what - they will need to be repatched at 15000 dash too, and 15230 dash, and etc.
I suspect MS is not banning and striving for the 'piss-off' factor, just like Dave did back in the day. Those 30+ titles will work, some of the time.. and crap out mid-game to really annoy those who don't read that, 'dashboard update = backups reburning'
Until MS use their Live service to cloud encryption files that are changing between system/title/day - we are good to go with reflashing/updating software/game discs with online play.
When they make that divide and use a live dae file that changes hourly, daily, etc. for online play is when dvd mod become extinct and RGH/Drive emu is looked into. MS make more money with people buying point cards and xbox live than people buying new systems...
With the theory posted though, its possible for drive emulators to store that additional information to generate the C/R responses for any part of the disc on the fly - essentially a new-fangled keyroller
Post by: evans05 on November 12, 2011, 10:33:00 AM
Post by: ruciz on November 12, 2011, 11:33:00 AM
Post by: Master Reefed on November 12, 2011, 12:09:00 PM
QUOTE(Drefsab @ Nov 11 2011, 12:50 PM)
yup rsg/jtag and then never have to give a damn about firmware, flags, burning discs etc so much easier
ya... easier if you dont mind soldering how many spots on that 200$ motherboard?
Post by: SoulInDeed on November 12, 2011, 12:26:00 PM
Post by: ochentay4 on November 12, 2011, 01:02:00 PM
What if Microsoft decides to store multiple Dae.bin and choose it randomly to check AP2.5 games? Will the backup responde to new and or old Dae.bin?
An easy check could be an updated AP2.5 game with new rip with latest beta Dae.bin and check if it runs with dash 13599 and see if it boots/flag
Post by: bubbafett4hire on November 12, 2011, 02:08:00 PM
QUOTE(Master Reefed @ Nov 12 2011, 02:09 PM)
ya... easier if you dont mind soldering how many spots on that 200$ motherboard?
We did it for how many years on the original Xbox back when it was 22 - 27 wires during the early days
Post by: ekruob on November 12, 2011, 09:18:00 PM
QUOTE(Weirdjerz3y @ Nov 13 2011, 01:13 AM)
You know, the only thing I never got was, why try now. To stop backups on xbox. They're going to release a new xbox in about a year two years, the xbox360 life is dying. Why spend money and resources on stopping it now? I dont see the point. Did companies finally complain? That people have been going online with backups for years? I understand the point that if something is yours u want to protect it, but when u had it for a while, and u know ur getting a new one in a bit don't bother. That's what I think, maybe you guys have better reason for trying so hard right now. If I didn't make sense somewhere tell me, I'm typing this early in the morning.
They're testing it out for the new Xbox - i.e. if it fails for the 360, then there's no point wasting money putting the flawed protection into the Xbox 720 is there?!
Post by: misteromar on February 02, 2020, 11:14:00 PM
If we are burning full iso with ltmax, are we good?
Post by: rwcottrell on February 03, 2020, 02:17:00 AM
Post by: Oldxbox on November 13, 2011, 03:04:00 AM
QUOTE(tarektaha @ Nov 12 2011, 02:16 PM)
But abgx only lists few games that are AP25? This has changed with XGD3? So every game that is XGD3 has ap2.5 and its backup will not playnon the new dash? Or only some xgd3 only?
ABGX is not up to date for XGD3, neither the web site nor the software and the database. We have to wait for version 1.0.6
Post by: dawidkk on February 03, 2020, 06:31:00 AM
Post by: xD34DL1N3Rx on November 13, 2011, 07:44:00 AM
QUOTE(dawidkk @ Nov 13 2011, 07:31 AM)
I am not totally convinced that 1:1 copies are impossible to make. It's all the problem of high-level programming. How can you make 1:1 copy by the even best burning program if every burn is made by a bunch of standard .dll libraries and by the drive firmware itself using most of the standard burning algorithms. Laser is laser and disc is disc. All you need is low-level preparated firmware for a specific drive which is reading and writing track just as the die is prepared for the retail disc. So basically you need to fool your burner. Of course it will not be so easy due to ECC and other correction stuff, but still- it is possible.
Hope to see this coming from you in the next couple of weeks.
Post by: HotKnife420 on November 13, 2011, 10:19:00 AM
QUOTE(dawidkk @ Nov 13 2011, 02:31 PM)
I am not totally convinced that 1:1 copies are impossible to make. It's all the problem of high-level programming. How can you make 1:1 copy by the even best burning program if every burn is made by a bunch of standard .dll libraries and by the drive firmware itself using most of the standard burning algorithms. Laser is laser and disc is disc. All you need is low-level preparated firmware for a specific drive which is reading and writing track just as the die is prepared for the retail disc. So basically you need to fool your burner. Of course it will not be so easy due to ECC and other correction stuff, but still- it is possible.
Man, I don't know where you've been hiding, but I'm glad you're here, now!
Seriously, tho, if it's possible, how come NOBODY has been doing this for, well, anything?
In other words, if something like what you describe exists... then how can warez co-exist? After all, if we could make 1:1 copies, we wouldn't need to mod any consoles, ever.
Post by: dangerouseddy on February 03, 2020, 12:13:00 PM
QUOTE(dawidkk @ Nov 13 2011, 02:31 PM)
I am not totally convinced that 1:1 copies are impossible to make. It's all the problem of high-level programming. How can you make 1:1 copy by the even best burning program if every burn is made by a bunch of standard .dll libraries and by the drive firmware itself using most of the standard burning algorithms. Laser is laser and disc is disc. All you need is low-level preparated firmware for a specific drive which is reading and writing track just as the die is prepared for the retail disc. So basically you need to fool your burner. Of course it will not be so easy due to ECC and other correction stuff, but still- it is possible.
its physically impossible to make a 1:1 copy of a xbox 360 game for various reasons without a pressing plant.
Post by: Syn201 on November 13, 2011, 01:23:00 PM
QUOTE(dawidkk @ Nov 13 2011, 02:31 PM)
I am not totally convinced that 1:1 copies are impossible to make. It's all the problem of high-level programming. How can you make 1:1 copy by the even best burning program if every burn is made by a bunch of standard .dll libraries and by the drive firmware itself using most of the standard burning algorithms. Laser is laser and disc is disc. All you need is low-level preparated firmware for a specific drive which is reading and writing track just as the die is prepared for the retail disc. So basically you need to fool your burner. Of course it will not be so easy due to ECC and other correction stuff, but still- it is possible.
Unless you have a pressing machine and some dicks that allow you to press onto metal,not a dye based disk like we use now.you would also need the glass master or another way to master a disk eltro ,photo what ever.
This simply not financially viable to go average "backup maker" (yeah we need "backups " with 100 plus gig hard disks lol wtfe )..
Post by: dawidkk on February 03, 2020, 02:22:00 PM
QUOTE(dangerouseddy @ Nov 13 2011, 09:13 PM)
its physically impossible to make a 1:1 copy of a xbox 360 game for various reasons without a pressing plant.
Ever seen how retail discs are being made? It's all burnt initially by laser. The difference is that this "burner" can write any type of binary code to a disc. ECC corection codes, TOC etc. can be inserted to a disc not by laser firmware itself but by its software in initial image preparation. Laser can do whatever you "tell him straight to do" only if you do it in low-level code.
eg. bad sectors are not something which your drive can't read, but can't interpret logically due to wrong corrections added by a system software- not by the laser. You can't burn bad sectors to a disc because your firmware is unable to do it. furthermore you cant burn whole sector of zeros cause your firmware will always add extra byte of correction to an every single byte.
other words: we need a firmware which is making full rip of disc - not only data but whole data sectors with all its redundancy - bit by bit. All data-readed corrections should be done by software on ripped image- not by a firmware (non scratched retail discs never have any "Parity Outer Failures" which require extra sector read)
And of course a burning software for a (low-level) firmware which is burning all data just without any other "internal" modifications.
It is possible but not easy to do. Ask c4eva how he fooled drive to burn 8.7GB to 8.5 disc. You could force drive to write DL 10GB to a SL 4.7 disc with a success response and guess what...after all your burner would be still working.
Sorry for bad english.
Post by: dangerouseddy on February 03, 2020, 05:08:00 PM
Post by: col12 on February 03, 2020, 06:12:00 PM
Post by: astr4twin on February 04, 2020, 02:58:00 AM
There is still a lot of analysis to do. Unlike the changes to the dae.bin in the previous updates, this time around the changes arent so simple. In addition to possibly having to re-burn/re-press, accommodating the changes has a ripple effect across XBC, abgx360, other associated/internal tools, as well as potentially the fw itself. Right now its too early to make any definitive statements. It should be clarified in the original post where mention was made that the drive fws are not affected this was not in reference to c4evas fw, but rather to the ofw re-flashing of non-updated drives. The fw versions those drives get updated to has not changed in this update (e.g. Lite-On phats to 02510C, and Lite-On slim 9504 to 0272). The team appreciates your patience. More concrete info about what these changes entail will be posted in the days ahead as analysis progresses.
Post by: filletofish on November 14, 2011, 03:36:00 AM
QUOTE(dawidkk @ Nov 13 2011, 11:22 PM)
Ever seen how retail discs are being made? It's all burnt initially by laser. The difference is that this "burner" can write any type of binary code to a disc. ECC corection codes, TOC etc. can be inserted to a disc not by laser firmware itself but by its software in initial image preparation. Laser can do whatever you "tell him straight to do" only if you do it in low-level code.
eg. bad sectors are not something which your drive can't read, but can't interpret logically due to wrong corrections added by a system software- not by the laser. You can't burn bad sectors to a disc because your firmware is unable to do it. furthermore you cant burn whole sector of zeros cause your firmware will always add extra byte of correction to an every single byte.
other words: we need a firmware which is making full rip of disc - not only data but whole data sectors with all its redundancy - bit by bit. All data-readed corrections should be done by software on ripped image- not by a firmware (non scratched retail discs never have any "Parity Outer Failures" which require extra sector read)
And of course a burning software for a (low-level) firmware which is burning all data just without any other "internal" modifications.
It is possible but not easy to do. Ask c4eva how he fooled drive to burn 8.7GB to 8.5 disc. You could force drive to write DL 10GB to a SL 4.7 disc with a success response and guess what...after all your burner would be still working.
Sorry for bad english.
Biggest load of gibbering rubbish i've read for quite a while mate.
Bad sectors have been used for more than 10 years as a form of copy protection (Starting in the original pc copy protection called SafeDisk from Macrovision wayyyyyy back). They used bad sectors for the first 10,000\20,000 sectors, basically if you had a Liteon cd writer you could read the bad sectors as bad sectors and write them as bad sectors too. Some writers would automatically "correct" them.
The only special thing here was writing in "RAW" mode. This was 10 years ago though, things have moved on a LONG way since then. So your argument would make sense 10 years ago....slightly...I say slightly because that is only for PC games, where the reading hardware would not be consistent (different cd drives being used to read disk obviously) so they could only use the readable area on a disk that could be read by *any* normal cd reader.
Consoles are different. Take the Playstation 1, it's disks had an area with a signature in that could not be read or written by a CD writer, this means ANY cd writer - it was physically impossible - because the signature was in an area that a cd writer couldn't move it's head to write the data.
Even the "silver" stamping factories in thailand couldn't reproduce it!!!!
Sure you could get "silvers", but they still needed a mod chip belive it or not.
Later on in the Playstation 1 lifecycle, disks started being released that had data in the subchannel, so more advanced writing methods were needed (or simply a ppf patch to remove the protection in the exe), these "advanced writing methods" were called "DAO96", and also being able to write subchannel data without correcting it automatically in firnware of the writer - NOTE you still needed a mod chip!
Any console from then on uses similar technology as a base.
Basiclly, you're talking rubbish - complete rubbish.
The firmware C4E has hacked is simply to allow more bits to be in each sector on a disk - much like an audio cd has less error correction bits and hence a 700MB CD can hold 800MB of data by using less bits for error correction. This is why when an audio cd gets a small scratch it's often audible when you'd think it wouldn't be.
The Dreamcast back in the old days, once it got hacked had a similar thing, there was a program called "Disk Juggler" that could write DATA as an audio CD. GD-ROM disks were 1GB in size, so scene groups stripped out as much un needed data by downsampling video\audio and then burning it on a CD, you can overburn a CD so you could normally get about 820MB of on a 700MB CD. The reason the dreamcast could play copies isn't because the special signature could be written - it was because an audio track was placed in the first session on a CD that made the dreamcast think it was an audio cd, however data then followed...(i'm not certain on the details for this but in laymans terms, it's that).
Anyway, hope you feel suitably clued up now on these things. And please don't peddle that nonsene to anyone else.
Post by: bubbafett4hire on November 14, 2011, 07:05:00 AM
QUOTE(filletofish @ Nov 14 2011, 05:36 AM)
Biggest load of gibbering rubbish i've read for quite a while mate.
Bad sectors have been used for more than 10 years as a form of copy protection (Starting in the original pc copy protection called SafeDisk from Macrovision wayyyyyy back). They used bad sectors for the first 10,000\20,000 sectors, basically if you had a Liteon cd writer you could read the bad sectors as bad sectors and write them as bad sectors too. Some writers would automatically "correct" them.
The only special thing here was writing in "RAW" mode. This was 10 years ago though, things have moved on a LONG way since then. So your argument would make sense 10 years ago....slightly...I say slightly because that is only for PC games, where the reading hardware would not be consistent (different cd drives being used to read disk obviously) so they could only use the readable area on a disk that could be read by *any* normal cd reader.
Consoles are different. Take the Playstation 1, it's disks had an area with a signature in that could not be read or written by a CD writer, this means ANY cd writer - it was physically impossible - because the signature was in an area that a cd writer couldn't move it's head to write the data.
Even the "silver" stamping factories in thailand couldn't reproduce it!!!!
Sure you could get "silvers", but they still needed a mod chip belive it or not.
Later on in the Playstation 1 lifecycle, disks started being released that had data in the subchannel, so more advanced writing methods were needed (or simply a ppf patch to remove the protection in the exe), these "advanced writing methods" were called "DAO96", and also being able to write subchannel data without correcting it automatically in firnware of the writer - NOTE you still needed a mod chip!
Any console from then on uses similar technology as a base.
Basiclly, you're talking rubbish - complete rubbish.
The firmware C4E has hacked is simply to allow more bits to be in each sector on a disk - much like an audio cd has less error correction bits and hence a 700MB CD can hold 800MB of data by using less bits for error correction. This is why when an audio cd gets a small scratch it's often audible when you'd think it wouldn't be.
The Dreamcast back in the old days, once it got hacked had a similar thing, there was a program called "Disk Juggler" that could write DATA as an audio CD. GD-ROM disks were 1GB in size, so scene groups stripped out as much un needed data by downsampling video\audio and then burning it on a CD, you can overburn a CD so you could normally get about 820MB of on a 700MB CD. The reason the dreamcast could play copies isn't because the special signature could be written - it was because an audio track was placed in the first session on a CD that made the dreamcast think it was an audio cd, however data then followed...(i'm not certain on the details for this but in laymans terms, it's that).
Anyway, hope you feel suitably clued up now on these things. And please don't peddle that nonsene to anyone else.
+1
Post by: Dale7 on November 14, 2011, 10:17:00 PM
QUOTE(DodgeM4s @ Nov 11 2011, 06:11 PM)
I dont think there has been any reports of bans from people using an xkey online yet.
QUOTE(bubbafett4hire @ Nov 11 2011, 06:41 PM)
EVERYONE CALM DOWN
1st) This is almost no different then every other time a new dash comes out with different AP2.5 data with the need for re-burning backups with proper info, many of you should expect this by now as we've gone through this how many times already.
2nd) Why would you opt to put a beta update on your flashed machine when you know almost every past update they have changed AP25 data as well as other hidden items and wonder why backups won't boot.
3rd) Everyone who's jumping the gun thinking this is a bad thing needs to remember that XBC isn't even fully done yet as the current version of XBC still can't burn XGD3 discs , and we are still waiting for a new ABGX beyond this new change.
Everyone take a pill or smoke somthing and relax!!! people are working on it and jumping to speculation is just going to put out bad information when we have no real facts yet other then a DAE table change and C4E saying we will need some new software
According to C4E he claims he knows of 2 already being banned using xkey
c4eva Speaks! automated irc logs, updated instantly whenever and wherever c4eva speaks
http://c4evaspeaks.com/
[2011-10-30 06:49PM UTC] #fw <c4eva> zoneout: all ode are not live safe, already had one banned
with xkey, rgh>ode, ode is expensive way of getting banned!
[2011-06-15 06:42AM UTC] #c4e <theJ3STeR> You watch the New x360Key Vid c4?
[2011-06-15 06:44AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> jester:yes, wont take MS long to make xkey a good door stop
[2011-06-15 06:47AM UTC] #c4e <soon> c4eva, why you are sure that xkex wont be save on live?
[2011-06-15 06:47AM UTC] #c4e <soon> sorry mean xkey
[2011-06-15 06:48AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> soon:by its very nature the emulator is just that, an
emulator, and can be detected very easily
[2011-06-15 06:48AM UTC] #c4e <soon> with a new dash update its maybe also possible for m4 to
detect your fw
[2011-06-15 06:49AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> soon:soon:as fw is orig hardware,much harder to detect
[2011-06-15 06:50AM UTC] #c4e <Newb> ms can detect the diffrences between emulator and real and
we dont know if they can detect fw
[2011-06-15 06:50AM UTC] #c4e <[Athos]> the question is rather, would it be possible (in theory) to
make an emulator that is not detectable?
[2011-06-15 06:52AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> the problem you will have is MS will not just ban but stop the
game from booting offline, so it will be useless
_____________________________________
All XGD3 (Xbox Game Disc 3) games are AP 2.5! This means are "Capable" of AP 2.5, but only those XGD3
games in the latest updated dae.bin file have been "Activated" for it!
There are currently as of today "26" "Activated" AP 2.5 games! 6 of those are the XGD2, the rest are XGD3!
REFERENCES
The New System Update Faq - Scenyx Entertainment Community
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=730311
AP25 FAQ by Defosho UPDATED 4th October 2011 - Team Xecuter
http://team-xecuter....ead.php?t=62153
The Ap25 Faq - In Depth And Updated For 13604 - Scenyx Entertainment Community
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=728912
AP25 games list
https://spreadsheets...cF9JSWs3VmhBNXc
Post by: filletofish on November 15, 2011, 01:02:00 AM
QUOTE(Dale7 @ Nov 15 2011, 07:17 AM)
c4eva Speaks! automated irc logs, updated instantly whenever and wherever c4eva speaks
http://c4evaspeaks.com/
[2011-10-30 06:49PM UTC] #fw <c4eva> zoneout: all ode are not live safe, already had one banned
with xkey, rgh>ode, ode is expensive way of getting banned!
[2011-06-15 06:42AM UTC] #c4e <theJ3STeR> You watch the New x360Key Vid c4?
[2011-06-15 06:44AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> jester:yes, wont take MS long to make xkey a good door stop
[2011-06-15 06:47AM UTC] #c4e <soon> c4eva, why you are sure that xkex wont be save on live?
[2011-06-15 06:47AM UTC] #c4e <soon> sorry mean xkey
[2011-06-15 06:48AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> soon:by its very nature the emulator is just that, an
emulator, and can be detected very easily
[2011-06-15 06:48AM UTC] #c4e <soon> with a new dash update its maybe also possible for m4 to
detect your fw
[2011-06-15 06:49AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> soon:soon:as fw is orig hardware,much harder to detect
[2011-06-15 06:50AM UTC] #c4e <Newb> ms can detect the diffrences between emulator and real and
we dont know if they can detect fw
[2011-06-15 06:50AM UTC] #c4e <[Athos]> the question is rather, would it be possible (in theory) to
make an emulator that is not detectable?
[2011-06-15 06:52AM UTC] #c4e <c4eva> the problem you will have is MS will not just ban but stop the
game from booting offline, so it will be useless
_____________________________________
All XGD3 (Xbox Game Disc 3) games are AP 2.5! This means are "Capable" of AP 2.5, but only those XGD3
games in the latest updated dae.bin file have been "Activated" for it!
There are currently as of today "26" "Activated" AP 2.5 games! 6 of those are the XGD2, the rest are XGD3!
REFERENCES
The New System Update Faq - Scenyx Entertainment Community
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=730311
AP25 FAQ by Defosho UPDATED 4th October 2011 - Team Xecuter
http://team-xecuter....ead.php?t=62153
The Ap25 Faq - In Depth And Updated For 13604 - Scenyx Entertainment Community
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=728912
AP25 games list
https://spreadsheets...cF9JSWs3VmhBNXc
Post by: DodgeM4s on November 15, 2011, 04:07:00 AM
QUOTE(filletofish @ Nov 14 2011, 11:36 AM)
Biggest load of gibbering rubbish i've read for quite a while mate.
Anyway, hope you feel suitably clued up now on these things. And please don't peddle that nonsene to anyone else.
Good read and I didnt know someone has been banned using the x360key.
Post by: Drefsab on November 15, 2011, 06:26:00 AM
QUOTE(Master Reefed @ Nov 12 2011, 09:09 PM)
ya... easier if you dont mind soldering how many spots on that 200$ motherboard?
Yup 6 (phat) or 7 (slim) simple solder points, on a dirt cheap console to never have to worry about burning games again. Sure you stay off live but then you have to say off live with things like the xkey etc anyway.
If you can't solder those points you sure as hell shouldn't be doing an MRA hack or the Kamikaze hack, or soldering on a Sputnik. Sure soldering is not for everyone that's why you take it to someone who can solder have them install it and give them something for their time and effort.
Don't get me wrong I don't mind doing drive flashes for people but if MS were smart they will start doing these kinds of changes more and more often, people then have to reburn more often, and what with people having to use Verb's now its going to cost more and more money. How long will it be until people are spending so much on new disc's until they say sod it im either going to give up playing on live or buy originals (or both and have 2 box's like myself and many others do).
Post by: HotKnife420 on November 15, 2011, 11:45:00 AM
QUOTE(Drefsab @ Nov 15 2011, 02:26 PM)
Don't get me wrong I don't mind doing drive flashes for people but if MS were smart they will start doing these kinds of changes more and more often, people then have to reburn more often, and what with people having to use Verb's now its going to cost more and more money. How long will it be until people are spending so much on new disc's until they say sod it im either going to give up playing on live or buy originals (or both and have 2 box's like myself and many others do).
If MS were a small business, yes, they could do that all day (until they went out of business), but it all boils down to $$$. Microsoft isn't going to spend a bunch of money on something, only to throw money at it. Microsoft does see a spke in console sales when they have a banwave, but despite the fact that piracy has been possible on the 360 for almost it's entire life, Microsoft manages to have more developers and publishers than their competition. In order to keep publishers and developers happy, they need to take measures to at least make it harder to do something that may enable piracy (ie: drive security), so they can at least look like they're on top of things, but they're not going to go over-budget and keep paying people to come up with methods that will inevitebly fail, and in the end, still suffer the same "damages" they claim due to piracy.
So from a business perspective, it's a necessary and redundant cost, but not exactly a high priority.
Also, about the "having to use Verbs now" part - you can use other media. There's a guide on another forum that tells you how you can hack the BurnerMAX f/w to patch a different Media ID (ie: Ritek-04 for Memorex). FWIW, you can also burn on other media anyway (turn OPC off; try 2.4x), but I've heard mixed results. When I get my hands on some more off-brand crap I'll post my results
Post by: danthaman673 on November 15, 2011, 01:38:00 PM
QUOTE(ruciz @ Nov 12 2011, 09:39 AM)
Another point, if it was 1:1 - you wouldn't need to modify the 360 in any way.
By the reports it seems like MS finally got the 'keyrolling' working in some fashion without modifying the drive's firmware.
Does being connected or disconnected from LIVE affect anything?
If M$ wanted to roll the key they could have done it any time,(actually they already added to the number of challenges ages ago) there are many reasons why they wont just add a whole lot or try to add 'secret' ones (some of those reasons are obvious some are not)
QUOTE(dradra @ Nov 12 2011, 03:04 PM)
I have a suggestion:
Calculating the angle from two different sectors in the disk will be practically infinite. But save the coordinates of every sector in the disk not. two doubles per every sector. With that information, it'll be possible to replay every angle. The storage needed will be ~1/128 the size of the DVD without compression.
And If the XBOX 360 DVD ROM is only capable of reading angles between sectors, and not positions, it's also possible mathematically (I Think) deduce the positions, from angle differences.
I've been saying this fer ages, but it's still thwarted by complexity amongst other things, mind you if they push us that far, I'm sure the formulas and methods will appear in a surprising amount of time XD .... But I guess that wont happen on this generation..... besides there are other ways
QUOTE(Spark @ Nov 12 2011, 05:25 PM)
I believe that all of the XGD3 titles use it. For some reason it never really took off for XGD2, never could quite understand the MS strategy on that actually.
My guess was that M$ believed implementing ap2.5 on XGD2 was kinda a waste of time while we had the extra disc-space to store challenges, they wisely reclaimed the space before fully bringing it to bear.
QUOTE(dawidkk @ Nov 14 2011, 06:52 AM)
Ever seen how retail discs are being made? It's all burnt initially by laser. The difference is that this "burner" can write any type of binary code to a disc. ECC corection codes, TOC etc. can be inserted to a disc not by laser firmware itself but by its software in initial image preparation. Laser can do whatever you "tell him straight to do" only if you do it in low-level code.
eg. bad sectors are not something which your drive can't read, but can't interpret logically due to wrong corrections added by a system software- not by the laser. You can't burn bad sectors to a disc because your firmware is unable to do it. furthermore you cant burn whole sector of zeros cause your firmware will always add extra byte of correction to an every single byte.
other words: we need a firmware which is making full rip of disc - not only data but whole data sectors with all its redundancy - bit by bit. All data-readed corrections should be done by software on ripped image- not by a firmware (non scratched retail discs never have any "Parity Outer Failures" which require extra sector read)
And of course a burning software for a (low-level) firmware which is burning all data just without any other "internal" modifications.
It is possible but not easy to do. Ask c4eva how he fooled drive to burn 8.7GB to 8.5 disc. You could force drive to write DL 10GB to a SL 4.7 disc with a success response and guess what...after all your burner would be still working.
Sorry for bad english.
I agree with the earlier comments, I don't think you don't understand how Xbox AP works,(among other things) but you are kinda right(in one regard.. kinda) in that it may be possible (in theory) to get a burner to burn angles with some types of media (although I doubt anyone would go to the trouble/expense to get it to work) If a drive laser can read an angle then in theory it should be able write at that angle, perhaps a media of higher density could be used in a different manner and store the angle(s) over a larger area of the security sector. I wouldn't write it off entirely just yet, however unlikely it is, I argued with numbers of ppl who said it would be impossible to ever burn XGD3 etc.. (not that this is the same thing in any way, but given FW can translate the way things are decoded, and that angles are still converted ADC style... anyway you get what I'm saying..... Blurays hold a lot.. we may get in to hybrid systems if need be, if there really is that much data that can't be emulated based on 3d laser-scan in XBC of the sector, and I'm not convinced that that info can't be at least drastically condensed in a formulaic/3D EMU type of manner, then maybe (if needed) we could go to a piggy-back chip that supplies just that SS data to ANY challenge either with an online cahcing system or USB HDD storage.. hell maybe we'll end up with 2 discs for every game 1 XGD3 and one HDRW/BlUrayRW that just holds SS info (lol) .. This stuff about xkey being door-stop soon? surely they didn't build it that poorly? Perhaps we can pray for open-source ODDemu finally (or at least free) for offline use? Why not scene-release hybrid? I think C4eva does excellent work and has been at it for a while, I guess it would not surprise me entirely that ODDemu's are a ways off live-safe.
Brgds
Post by: Exobex on November 15, 2011, 02:53:00 PM
QUOTE(dradra @ Nov 15 2011, 07:41 PM)
I don't like to bash C4Eva comments... But... how many people got banned because using C4Eva firmware? A lots more than 1. If x360key got only one ban, then is the way to go. Also i don't like C4Eva bashing emu products without any proof. He only says it's detectable, he doesn't say how.
Exactly. If someone's been banned using an X360key can they please stand up and be counted, otherwise this remains a statement that should be tagged as, as Wikipedia would put it, [citation needed], along with the tales from the man in a pub whose mate's got a hacked Sky box but that for some reason you'll never get to see.
I don't have an ODE nor any links to their development, but I, no doubt like many others, am watching their performance with interest. It will be interesting to see what MS pulls out of the hat this forthcoming update, and whether it detects, blocks or renders inoperable ANY circumvention, be it RGH, ODE or modified drive firmware.
I personally think the Wasabi one, with its (at present) reliance on Microsoft's built-in media player for ISO selection, is on particularly shaky ground.
Post by: filletofish on November 15, 2011, 07:52:00 PM
QUOTE(danthaman673 @ Nov 15 2011, 10:38 PM)
If M$ wanted to roll the key they could have done it any time,(actually they already added to the number of challenges ages ago) there are many reasons why they wont just add a whole lot or try to add 'secret' ones (some of those reasons are obvious some are not)
I've been saying this fer ages, but it's still thwarted by complexity amongst other things, mind you if they push us that far, I'm sure the formulas and methods will appear in a surprising amount of time XD .... But I guess that wont happen on this generation..... besides there are other ways
My guess was that M$ believed implementing ap2.5 on XGD2 was kinda a waste of time while we had the extra disc-space to store challenges, they wisely reclaimed the space before fully bringing it to bear.
I agree with the earlier comments, I don't think you don't understand how Xbox AP works,(among other things) but you are kinda right(in one regard.. kinda) in that it may be possible (in theory) to get a burner to burn angles with some types of media (although I doubt anyone would go to the trouble/expense to get it to work) If a drive laser can read an angle then in theory it should be able write at that angle, perhaps a media of higher density could be used in a different manner and store the angle(s) over a larger area of the security sector. I wouldn't write it off entirely just yet, however unlikely it is, I argued with numbers of ppl who said it would be impossible to ever burn XGD3 etc.. (not that this is the same thing in any way, but given FW can translate the way things are decoded, and that angles are still converted ADC style... anyway you get what I'm saying..... Blurays hold a lot.. we may get in to hybrid systems if need be, if there really is that much data that can't be emulated based on 3d laser-scan in XBC of the sector, and I'm not convinced that that info can't be at least drastically condensed in a formulaic/3D EMU type of manner, then maybe (if needed) we could go to a piggy-back chip that supplies just that SS data to ANY challenge either with an online cahcing system or USB HDD storage.. hell maybe we'll end up with 2 discs for every game 1 XGD3 and one HDRW/BlUrayRW that just holds SS info (lol) .. This stuff about xkey being door-stop soon? surely they didn't build it that poorly? Perhaps we can pray for open-source ODDemu finally (or at least free) for offline use? Why not scene-release hybrid? I think C4eva does excellent work and has been at it for a while, I guess it would not surprise me entirely that ODDemu's are a ways off live-safe.
Brgds
Nothing of what dawidkk has any basis in reality whatsoever. The AP2.5 data CAN be written to a dvd, and it can be stored in it's entierity. It's got nothing to do with 3d lasers, deathstars, or luke skywalker just in case you were going to make another set of unfounded theories.
I'm only playing, but if you're interested in understanding have a look on google with the search term "twinpeak" or "twin peak sectors", also have a search on terms mentioned here http://en.wikipedia....ion_Measurement
QUOTE(bubbafett4hire @ Nov 16 2011, 03:30 AM)
If I'm not mistaken xkey has stated no XBL use yet on their site and in demo videos. Support for XBL was to be added later in upcoming updates according to their site, so yes if someone was banned using a ODE please stand up but in the same respects the xkey team even stated a ban was possible at this current time.
As far as your comment about the Sky being opened....guess you can't find a CAM or IKS service to use cause it is open and has been for some time.
OT sorry but i'm quite sure Sky is water tight as it's always been, edit....I see you're referring to card sharing. That's not hacked though in any sense of the word.
Post by: bubbafett4hire on November 15, 2011, 09:08:00 PM
QUOTE(filletofish @ Nov 15 2011, 09:52 PM)
OT sorry but i'm quite sure Sky is water tight as it's always been, edit....I see you're referring to card sharing. That's not hacked though in any sense of the word.
I stand corrected , was thinking of triple dragon and dreambox STB's with the sky cards, but now memory serves those still needed official cards and had to be updated by official receivers if I remember correctly could be wrong. I know card sharing is not a hack if anything it's a joke and a great way for grandmas to get hit when servers get captured. I've been playing with charlie for more then few years now and dave before that and have never supported IKS fully nor will I ever not safe enough for my tastes.
Post by: AarunJon on November 16, 2011, 04:47:00 PM
Always interesting to see alternative methods though!
Post by: BoNg420 on November 17, 2011, 12:23:00 PM
Post by: BaDHaBiTt on November 18, 2011, 03:50:00 AM
QUOTE(BoNg420 @ Nov 17 2011, 08:23 PM)
I feel bad for those who bought xk3y and other such devices since they need DAE.bin...
Well, so do CFW Einstein.
Post by: BoNg420 on November 18, 2011, 08:05:00 AM
QUOTE(BaDHaBiTt @ Nov 18 2011, 05:50 AM)
Well, so do CFW Einstein.
I know that. I was just saying they spent $100 on a product that now has them in the same boat as CFW. They boasted it would be so great, but I dont even think they are live safe in the first place.
Post by: theshiverman on November 18, 2011, 06:31:00 PM