Post by: Xbox-Scene on September 19, 2006, 10:34:00 PM
| From 360gamesaves.com: Quote
News-Source: 360gamesaves.com To browser the HD with a Windows PC you'll need Xplorer360(info). To connect the Xbox360 HD with your PC you have lots of choices these days: * You can open the HD-case (void warranty!) and connect the drive to your PC via an sata port (and if your PC has no SATA you can buy a standard SATA-to-USB converter). * If you don't wanna open your Xbox360 HD-case you can buy 3rd party accessoires like: - via SATA port: Xecuter Connectivity Kit, Xeno Connectivity Kit, 360toSATA Connectivity Kit, MiniSpy SATA - via USB port: Xecuter X360 USB, Datel XSATA, MiniSpy USB, XCM 360 SATA |
Post by: leorimolo on September 19, 2006, 09:53:00 PM
Post by: DaShiZNiT on September 19, 2006, 10:03:00 PM
cleary this is VERY interesting
Post by: xboxexpert on September 19, 2006, 10:16:00 PM
Post by: edwinmcdunlap on September 19, 2006, 10:21:00 PM
This would also be useful in case your hard drive gets filled with other stuff
Post by: Heet on September 19, 2006, 10:30:00 PM
TUTORIAL.
You burn the directory to dvd or cd.
Post by: Pikkon on September 19, 2006, 10:55:00 PM
QUOTE(Heet @ Sep 19 2006, 11:37 PM) 
A how to?
TUTORIAL.
You burn the directory to dvd or cd.
TUTORIAL.
You burn the directory to dvd or cd.
Im pretty sure you need to make a image of the directory then burn it to a cdr or a dvdr.
Post by: evilkeo on September 19, 2006, 10:57:00 PM
Post by: lord^infamous on September 19, 2006, 11:07:00 PM
Post by: jizmo on September 19, 2006, 11:26:00 PM
And the ability to play WMV-HD videos off the burnt DVD would've make x360 a kick-ass standalone HD player. I still hope PS3 will support media playing and streaming more freely than x360 so that MS would have to unlock the media restrictions in Xbox as well.
Post by: sinister slipknot on September 19, 2006, 11:29:00 PM
Post by: Lunar Aura on September 19, 2006, 11:35:00 PM
Some angel in the sky maybe? From the heavens? Wink wink.
Post by: reidage on September 20, 2006, 01:09:00 AM
Post by: PedrosPad on September 20, 2006, 01:55:00 AM
QUOTE(lord^infamous @ Sep 20 2006, 06:14 AM)
Gangsta! who woulda thought it'd be that easy
The default.xex within the XBLA PIRS archive are simply media flagged to run from a "Live-signed package". No mention of what physical media the package has to reside on.
QUOTE(jizmo @ Sep 20 2006, 06:33 AM)
It would've been useful if the demos or videos would've run. Demos are the ones that take most of your HDD space and would've fit nicely on cheap DVD+R discs.
Agreed. That's what was hoped for, but in our tests we couldn't make it fly.
QUOTE(sinister slipknot @ Sep 20 2006, 06:36 AM)
I like how they say its useful to people without hard drives, though they say you need to get it off the hard drive... so you need to get the hard drive to do this with, then not needing to put it on a CDR.
Or find a friend with one!. Given that these are simply trial versions (and free!) alternative distribution may be possible.
-- \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ --QUOTE(Lunar Aura @ Sep 20 2006, 06:42 AM)
I hope some soul in another dimension could somehow oh I don't know place an eyeso that has every XBLA game to date and maybe burnable to DVD-R.
Xbox Live Arcade Unplugged lite?
QUOTE(reidage @ Sep 20 2006, 08:16 AM)
So is it possible to copy a full version game from one x360 to another x360?
Nope.
My working theory regarding XBLA licensing goes likes this... The trail PIRS archives of XBLA games download uniformly (everyone gets an identical file - there's no personalization). When you 'purchase', a full license (a short file) is downloaded from XBL and stored in a 'license repository' (aka. 'key vault') stored in the FW on your console (maybe
[1]) (and mirrored on the XBL servers). Six bytes in the header of the XBLA PIRS archive are modified to hold the index (hash) of the newly stored license.When the XBLA game is executed, it uses the index/hash in the archive header to swiftly consult the console's key vault, and if the license is valid for the game, plays the full version, else, and if online, it consults the XBL server held key vault related to your profile, else trail only.
So you can move 'purchased' XBLA PIRS archives between consoles, but because the 2nd console's key vault will not contain license at the given index/hash location, it'll only play as trail (assuming different profile and/or offline!)
[1] I'm still unsure if a physical key vault is actually maintained/necessary. The bytes updated in the purchased XBLA PIRS archive's header may be being used in concert with the unique console serial number, and via some algorithm achieve a logical binding, rather than maintain a physical license vault. This theory is easy enough to check, but would involve unsoldering and dumping the consoles FW before and after an XBLA purchase to check for changes, which is beyond my abilities.
Post by: pimpmaul69 on September 20, 2006, 02:02:00 AM
Post by: Martinchris23 on September 20, 2006, 02:17:00 AM
QUOTE(reidage @ Sep 20 2006, 08:16 AM)
So is it possible to copy a full version game from one x360 to another x360?
IIRC, the XBLA Trial games are the same as the full game with the exception of it not being paid for. I'm sure someone can test this on a console where a XBLA title has been purchased and then trying to play it from a downloaded trial version on CD/DVD-R.
Post by: geoffmac on September 20, 2006, 04:26:00 AM
As they are full versions of the game or maybe the "Xbox Live Arcade Unplugged" installs necessary keys to make it work as a full version of the games.
Just my bit ..
Gff
Post by: Diablohead on September 20, 2006, 05:15:00 AM
*edit* Oh wait already said.
This post has been edited by Diablohead: Sep 20 2006, 12:16 PM
Post by: Textbook on September 20, 2006, 05:26:00 AM
QUOTE(Lunar Aura @ Sep 20 2006, 01:42 AM)
I hope some soul in another dimension could somehow oh I don't know place an eyeso that has every XBLA game to date and maybe burnable to DVD-R.
Some angel in the sky maybe? From the heavens? Wink wink.
Even then, what would it really be good for? Let's see...you can download all of the trial versions on XBL Marketplace for free, or you could download them "all on a DVD" and guess what? You would still be left with a disc full of trial version XBL games.
Post by: redshadownl on September 20, 2006, 05:45:00 AM
this whas found out a couple weeks ago (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
but its not realy usefull.......
Post by: PedrosPad on September 20, 2006, 05:53:00 AM
QUOTE(redshadownl @ Sep 20 2006, 12:52 PM)
xbox-scene is realy starting to lose it
this whas found out a couple weeks ago
but its not realy usefull.......
Most useful to X360 CORE owners with no HDD admittedly.
You can't fit many XBLA titles on a MemPak, so archiving them to DVD in a usable form is a plus. Obviously these folks would need to be able to connect their USB MemPaks to their PC to facilitate the backup their own XBLA content. By repeating this process, they can compile their own usable DVD of their XBLA content.
Post by: downlowfunk on September 20, 2006, 06:47:00 AM
Post by: Obveron on September 20, 2006, 07:30:00 AM
QUOTE(PedrosPad @ Sep 20 2006, 09:02 AM)
My working theory regarding XBLA licensing goes likes this... The trail PIRS archives of XBLA games download uniformly (everyone gets an identical file - there's no personalization). When you 'purchase', a full license (a short file) is downloaded from XBL and stored in a 'license repository' (aka. 'key vault') stored in the FW on your console (maybe
[1]) (and mirrored on the XBL servers). Six bytes in the header of the XBLA PIRS archive are modified to hold the index (hash) of the newly stored license.When the XBLA game is executed, it uses the index/hash in the archive header to swiftly consult the console's key vault, and if the license is valid for the game, plays the full version, else, and if online, it consults the XBL server held key vault related to your profile, else trail only.
So you can move 'purchased' XBLA PIRS archives between consoles, but because the 2nd console's key vault will not contain license at the given index/hash location, it'll only play as trail (assuming different profile and/or offline!)
[1] I'm still unsure if a physical key vault is actually maintained/necessary. The bytes updated in the purchased XBLA PIRS archive's header may be being used in concert with the unique console serial number, and via some algorithm achieve a logical binding, rather than maintain a physical license vault. This theory is easy enough to check, but would involve unsoldering and dumping the consoles FW before and after an XBLA purchase to check for changes, which is beyond my abilities.
Interesting. Care to explain how the full versions games run off the Live Arcade Unplugged DVD? Clearly these versions work without such key vaults.
Also, does this mean that if I buy a Live Arcade game, I'll only be able to play the full version when I'm online?
QUOTE(redshadownl @ Sep 20 2006, 12:52 PM)
xbox-scene is realy starting to lose it
this whas found out a couple weeks ago
but its not realy usefull.......
I see you joined 3 minutes before making this your first post.. but its not really useful!
Post by: kingroach on September 20, 2006, 08:57:00 AM
QUOTE(Obveron @ Sep 20 2006, 02:37 PM)
Interesting. Care to explain how the full versions games run off the Live Arcade Unplugged DVD? Clearly these versions work without such key vaults.
Also, does this mean that if I buy a Live Arcade game, I'll only be able to play the full version when I'm online?
I see you joined 3 minutes before making this your first post.. but its not really useful!
]
Most likely all the racade dvd uses same license.. or The dvd has unlocked build ( .xex without license) of the title. Someone needs to make a checksum comparasion of two builds..
btw. This method of booting xbl title was discovered before.. There was a release of Hexic HD in 55MB iso a week or so ago.
Post by: PedrosPad on September 20, 2006, 10:09:00 AM
QUOTE(downlowfunk @ Sep 20 2006, 01:54 PM)
so core users can download an arcade title to a mem card?
I've always believed so. Never actually tired it myself, but IIRC when downloading from XBL, in general, it asks where you want the download stored. I assumed this held true for XBLA content also.
Not to allow this would seem to unnecessarily reduce the audience/market for XBLA content.QUOTE(Obveron @ Sep 20 2006, 02:37 PM)
Care to explain how the full versions games run off the Live Arcade Unplugged DVD?
I've not seen this title yet, so I can't comment with any confidence. Two theories I've heard are that
1. The titles on the XBLA Unplugged DVD do not require a license (or uses a default license) and are simply media flagged for execution solely from an X360 format DVD. HexicHD also doesn't require a unique license, so there is precedent for this.
2. I also heard there is a very small (~50k IIRC) XEX on the DVD, that may simply install the licenses into the key vault.
But like I said, I've not seen this disk myself yet.
QUOTE(Obveron @ Sep 20 2006, 02:37 PM)
Also, does this mean that if I buy a Live Arcade game, I'll only be able to play the full version when I'm online?
Nope. When you 'purchase' a license for an XBLA title, the license gets added to your profile data held on the XBL server and 'cached' locally within the the console 'used to make the purchase'! So you can play full purchased versions while offline on the 'purchase console', and anywhere (such as on a m8's console) as long as you log into XBL with your profile.
Post by: twistedsymphony on September 20, 2006, 10:37:00 AM
QUOTE(PedrosPad @ Sep 20 2006, 12:16 PM)
...
2. I also heard there is a very small (~50k IIRC) XEX on the DVD, that may simply install the licenses into the key vault....
2. I also heard there is a very small (~50k IIRC) XEX on the DVD, that may simply install the licenses into the key vault....
That would be interesting... if true you could essentially go around giving all your friends licenses to the games included on the disc, they could then just download the trial versions and have access to the full versions. Heck if the disc went up for rental you could probably do the same thing... something tells me MS wouldn't do that fir that very reason. (then again you could do the same thing with the Halo 2 expansion map pack disc)
Also how would that work with XBL? If the licenses is mirrored on both what happens when your Console has new licenses that don't exist on XBL?
I think a more likely solution would be that the games are always the full version on the disc and they're flagged such that they must be run from Xbox 360 pressed DVD media (much like full retail 360 games)
though much like you I'm just speculating as well...
Post by: R-Dawggy Dawg on September 20, 2006, 10:41:00 AM
Post by: pimpmaul69 on September 20, 2006, 11:17:00 AM
Post by: PedrosPad on September 20, 2006, 01:13:00 PM
QUOTE(PedrosPad @ Sep 20 2006, 05:16 PM)
QUOTE(downlowfunk @ Sep 20 2006, 01:54 PM)
so core users can download an arcade title to a mem card?
I've always believed so. Never actually tired it myself, but IIRC when downloading from XBL, in general, it asks where you want the download stored. I assumed this held true for XBLA content also.
Not to allow this would seem to unnecessarily reduce the audience/market for XBLA content.Just got home and tired it. Popped off the HDD, and downloaded XBLA Scramble direct to MemPak with no problem.
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Sep 20 2006, 05:44 PM)
Also how would that work with XBL? If the licenses is mirrored on both what happens when your Console has new licenses that don't exist on XBL?
Nothing. Since the console's key vault is checked first, XBL would not be consulted. The license search stops at the first hit. If you ever had to replace the console, the new console's key vault would simply be repopulated on 1st use of XBLA Unplugged. BTW, XBL profile recovery doesn't repopulate a console's key vault with all purchased licences. Licences are only installed into the console's local key vault at point of actual purchase (when M$ points are actually spent)!
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Sep 20 2006, 05:44 PM)
I think a more likely solution would be that the games are always the full version on the disc and they're flagged such that they must be run from Xbox 360 pressed DVD media (much like full retail 360 games)
Agreed. I suspect we're over thinking this and the XBLA Unplugged games are simply media bound in some way.
Post by: pholly on September 20, 2006, 02:26:00 PM
Post by: kingroach on September 20, 2006, 02:45:00 PM
since you have the tools ( and my xbox 360 just broke with error 0102
).. Can you get a image dump ( using linux and dd) any XBL arcade full version's folder and get image dump of same games trial version. Now mount the full version's folder in linux and copy the license to trial version. and running the image from cd..
Post by: esc1 on September 20, 2006, 02:47:00 PM
QUOTE(xboxexpert @ Sep 20 2006, 12:23 AM)
Post by: DjoeN on September 20, 2006, 04:37:00 PM
QUOTE(DaShiZNiT @ Sep 20 2006, 06:10 AM)
WOW I cant believe noone has tried this before now....
cleary this is VERY interesting
Actually someone did
Released 10/09/2006 (European Date time dd/mm/yyyy)
(MUX360S, just placed a wrong date in there NFO)
The also said, it could be done easily with all arcade games, but the stay in trail unless you buy then.
| _ // \/ \\ // \\ _ .\ / _/___ 360 \\ |
| //' . \' '/ \' |/ \\\____ \ \ |
: // \ / .\ /_ .\ / __// / .\ \ :
//_______\\//______\\____________\\________\ /____________\ \
/ \
/_____ +--- -- -- - - -- -- ---+ _____\
.... / / Hexic HD SELFBOOTING XBOX360 - MUX360S \ \ ....
::' /: +--- -- -- - - -- -- ---+ :\ `::
' / +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ \ `
/__ Company : Alexey Pajitnov __\
| Date : 10/11/2006 |
| System : XenawarriorprincessBOX nr.360 |
| Size : size did matter afterall sayz s0r's GF :c |
___ : _ Country : EUR _ : ___
\ . / Language : Multi1 (Engrish) \ . /
\ / _ __ ___________________________________________________ __ _ \ /
' /_________________________________________________________________\ '
. .
Gay info
: :
| |
| Hexic HD came with MS HDD for 360!! |
| But now u dont need to buy MS HDD for 360 thx to MUX360s!! |
| |
| COOL NFO : |
| |
| First of all, Mr. Madden Himself sends warm yellow greetings |
| to his friends in DNL, after MUX360s scored the touchdown. |
| |
| |
| So... wtf is this fuzz about, Wondered s0r[MUPS]... |
| so, he looked up HEXIC on google..... |
| This Xbox Live Arcade puzzle game is designed by Alexey Pajitnov|
| the internationally-known creator of Tetris. |
| You will spend your time rotating groups of different colored |
| hexagons,attempting to group them together and wipe them from |
| the board....... |
...
| some rather nice side nfo is, it works on non modded consoles. |
| how h.a.r.d.C.0.r.e is that my wiggahz? |
| |
| ok,it still doesnt work on PSP, but FW 3.1 will include a mode |
| to run unsigned XBL code. but the beta shows promise! |
| |
| This image works on UNMODDED XBOX360! Just put the disc inside |
| and go to XboX live arcade menu in the dashboard and play
|| You can burn this image on dvd or cd, it has been tested on |
| animals,dvdrw and cdrw
...
QUOTE(pholly @ Sep 20 2006, 10:33 PM)
I tried using the games from the unplugged disc and they were demos so that won't work.
that's normal
When you have bought (let's say) 10 xbla games and suddenly your xbox360 goes broke.
1. You go get a new X360 / Or you send it in for warranty and you get a refurb/new one
2. You take your hd and slip in on your new x360
3. WTF all those bought arcade XBLA games i PAYED for are all back TRAIL
4. Well you have to sit and lay down to it, the xbla full games are bound to the console you downloaded then and unlocked them on
5. Do i get a refund: No MS has stated that when you buy/get/whatever way a new X360 you have to buy all those xbla games again.
Conclusion:
Does this suxs, i hope my x360 will never break, or i lose alot of money, i bought almost every xbla game out and i hate to see it wasted money, money MS will stick in there pocket with no refund!
Post by: pholly on September 20, 2006, 05:17:00 PM
Post by: DjoeN on September 20, 2006, 05:26:00 PM
QUOTE(pholly @ Sep 21 2006, 01:24 AM)
Unless I'm mistaken, even if you play on a different or new 360 as long as your profile is connected to xbox live they will be full again...right?
No, there not
(ok, the are somehow bound to your account to, if you take your account on, memory and go to another box you should be able to play your xbla games full)
BUT
Some while ago i and some friends did some tests
we made an account xbl gold
the guy who payed the account shared his account with us (bassicly we could just log into our xbox360 with his account) we made a deal, we log into our account adding the shared account, when we see it online we don't use it (if you connect with 1 account from 2 places one of them get disconnected)
We donated him some money for MS Points and he started to buy full xbla games he played them all fine (full not trial)
When he logged out he got back with his private xbla telling us one of us could go online with his shared account)
So we went recovered the profile to our xbox360, logging in with his account and downloading the game he purchased.
The result was we only got it working trial, not full (had it something to do with having the account on HD and not on memorycart?)
(we did some more tests, but this is it explained in a straight way.)
Some of the guys lived in the same country, some lived in another, but still european country
Anyway we stopped wondering about it and get one with work and wife, no messing around anymore with it
just play
Post by: pimpmaul69 on September 20, 2006, 07:13:00 PM
Post by: pimpmaul69 on September 20, 2006, 11:22:00 PM
Post by: pimpmaul69 on September 21, 2006, 12:11:00 AM
Post by: PedrosPad on September 21, 2006, 03:20:00 AM
QUOTE(pholly @ Sep 20 2006, 09:33 PM)
I tried using the games from the unplugged disc and they were demos so that won't work.
Not having the disk yet, I have to rely on feedback from others.
I find this post extremely interesting.
The online distribution, trial system, and purchase model of the XBLA service imposes constraints on how things must work. Republishing the XBLA games on DVD removes all those constraints (it doesn't even need to be the same game code, let alone similar distribution (PIRS archives)). It's interesting that it appears that M$ choose to change as little as possible and simply redistribute the standard XBLA content and appears to leverage the regular licensing model. (Obviously, this is the most cost effective.)
Responding directly to the quoted post, I take it you burnt the content from the Unplugged DVD onto CD in the necessary folder structure for your test. I'm impressed that they worked as trial games, and simply didn't refuse to work. From this it would appear that where downloaded license for XBLA content binds itself to the console, the Unplugged content license appear to be bound to the original DVD.
QUOTE(kingroach @ Sep 20 2006, 09:52 PM)
@PedrosPad,
since you have the tools ( and my xbox 360 just broke with error 0102
).. Can you get a image dump ( using linux and dd) any XBL arcade full version's folder and get image dump of same games trial version. Now mount the full version's folder in linux and copy the license to trial version. and running the image from cd..I've a folder on my PC full of trial XBLA content, and an identical folder filled with purchased versions. The only differences are limited about a dozen bytes within the PIRS header (in addition to the regular 2048bit PIRS content certificate which is recalculated to encompass the content byte changes). I expect that if I burn one of my purchased XBLA titles to CD, it'd play as full version on my console and trial on any other. But I'm happy to verify this.
QUOTE(DjoeN @ Sep 20 2006, 11:44 PM)
When you have bought (let's say) 10 xbla games and suddenly your xbox360 goes broke.
1. You go get a new X360 / Or you send it in for warranty and you get a refurb/new one
2. You take your hd and slip in on your new x360
3. WTF all those bought arcade XBLA games i PAYED for are all back TRAIL
4. Well you have to sit and lay down to it, the xbla full games are bound to the console you downloaded then and unlocked them on
5. Do i get a refund: No MS has stated that when you buy/get/whatever way a new X360 you have to buy all those xbla games again.
Conclusion:
Does this suxs, i hope my x360 will never break, or i lose alot of money, i bought almost every xbla game out and i hate to see it wasted money, money MS will stick in there pocket with no refund!
This has happened to a few folks. For them, M$ support simply credited their M$ point account with enough points to repurchase the content.
QUOTE(pholly @ Sep 21 2006, 12:24 AM)
Unless I'm mistaken, even if you play on a different or new 360 as long as your profile is connected to xbox live they will be full again...right?
100% correct.
QUOTE(pimpmaul69 @ Sep 21 2006, 07:18 AM)
i could be wrong about hexic... so if someone could further test that would be awesome
AFAIK no trial version of HexicHD exists. It's always the full version. Whether this is achieved via a default license, or the code simply doesn't contain a license check is unknown.
Post by: rippinitto on September 21, 2006, 07:07:00 AM
will probly patch this
Post by: R-Dawggy Dawg on September 21, 2006, 10:26:00 AM
QUOTE(rippinitto @ Sep 21 2006, 09:14 AM)
they
will probly patch thisjust like they will probly patch the dvd firmware?
Post by: pimpmaul69 on September 21, 2006, 11:55:00 AM
QUOTE(pholly @ Sep 21 2006, 12:24 AM)
Unless I'm mistaken, even if you play on a different or new 360 as long as your profile is connected to xbox live they will be full again...right?
you are correct... i disagree with djoen..because ive seen 2 xboxes that people purchased their content with their hdd but someone elses box and when they put the hdd on their boxes they didnt work..but if they sign into live then it did in fact work
Post by: Spark on September 21, 2006, 01:04:00 PM
I'm not an expert on these things, but doesn't that effectively mean that when you purchase Arcade content, your ID is written into the executable, so therefore dependent on the type of signing they've used, it could effectively be possible to hex that information to match that of a second profile and it would run.
I'm not a programmer at all, this is just pure speculation.
This post has been edited by Spark: Sep 21 2006, 08:05 PM
Post by: PedrosPad on September 21, 2006, 02:34:00 PM
QUOTE(Spark @ Sep 21 2006, 08:11 PM) 
So in effect then, they are locked to the Gold Live profile ?
I'm not an expert on these things, but doesn't that effectively mean that when you purchase Arcade content, your ID is written into the executable, so therefore dependent on the type of signing they've used, it could effectively be possible to hex that information to match that of a second profile and it would run.
I'm not a programmer at all, this is just pure speculation.
Not exactly. When you purchase a license for an XBLA title, the fact you purchased it is recorded in your XBL server-held profile.
If your profile is logged in when you attempt to play an XBLA title, the title will, after failing to find a locally held license, consult your profile data held on the XBL server. So while licenses are certainly purchased under, and are related to, a profile name, it's a loosely-coupled relationship (dependant on M$'s XBL server!), and not the closely-coupled relationship you suggest (as that would be too easy to exploit as you mention).
This post has been edited by PedrosPad: Sep 21 2006, 09:39 PM
Post by: Spark on September 21, 2006, 03:38:00 PM
It's a questionable security method though, because if ever your Live profile was accidentally corrupted or removed in error by MS, you would essentially lose access rights to software which you had already paid for.
Post by: PedrosPad on September 22, 2006, 02:16:00 AM
QUOTE(Spark @ Sep 21 2006, 10:45 PM)
It's a questionable security method though, because if ever your Live profile was accidentally corrupted or removed in error by MS, you would essentially lose access rights to software which you had already paid for.
Don't worry. I'm sure M$ backup the XBL-server's databases regularly.
Post by: PedrosPad on September 22, 2006, 05:30:00 AM
This post has been edited by PedrosPad: Sep 22 2006, 12:36 PM
Post by: FUCKMICROSOFT on September 23, 2006, 02:33:00 PM
