Post by: halofun121 on June 16, 2007, 10:46:00 AM
Does anyone have this TV? Even if you don't, do you think the picture quality would be better if I had the Xbox 360 output at the native resolution of my TV? My guess is yes, and my computer looks really sharp and clear on it when running at the native res. Thanks in advance.
I was also thinking about buying the Pelican Xbox 360 Pro Cooler to use with VGA (which has the added bonus of providing all of the supported connections).
This post has been edited by halofun121: Jun 16 2007, 05:54 PM
Post by: king360 on June 17, 2007, 02:31:00 AM
Bellow is a comparison between VGA and Component
VGA:
.HD DVD - 1080p resolution and all others
.DVD - Upscaled as high as 1080p resolution and all others
.Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future
Component:
.HD DVD - 1080i resolution maximum, limited by AACS
.DVD - Upscaled to 480p maximum, limited by CSS
.Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future
Post by: twistedsymphony on June 17, 2007, 09:20:00 PM
QUOTE(halofun121 @ Jun 16 2007, 12:46 PM) 
I just got my new HDTV not a long time ago. I've been using Component and have the Xbox 360 to output in 1080i. It looks very good, although I still have to mess with the settings a bit more. This TV has a native resolution of 1360x768. Now I've done quite a bit of reading on the web about VGA vs Component on the Xbox 360 (lots of crap to sort through about this topic), and have found that some have received better quality on VGA, and vise versa.
Does anyone have this TV? Even if you don't, do you think the picture quality would be better if I had the Xbox 360 output at the native resolution of my TV? My guess is yes, and my computer looks really sharp and clear on it when running at the native res. Thanks in advance.
I was also thinking about buying the Pelican Xbox 360 Pro Cooler to use with VGA (which has the added bonus of providing all of the supported connections).
even under component you'll get better picture quality running 720p rather then 1080i...
at 1080i your xbox 360 is upscaling, then throwing away half the lines of resolution then your TV is interpolating the missing lines of resolutions and downscaling.
running at 720p your Xbox 360 does nothing to the rendered image and then your TV does minimal upscaling.
Higher resolution ≠ Best Quality
Closest to Native resolution = Best Quality
The thing about VGA quality is based on 2 factors
1. The VGA colorspace your TV accepts. The VGA output of the 360 was designed for computer monitors and thus outputs at higher levels over VGA. Most HDTVs with VGA ports are designed to accept HDTV colorspace over vga which typically has lower levels. As a result most people using the 360 with HDTVs over VGA experience a washed out picture.
MS claims that the last spring update fixed this issue but I've yet to hear from anyone here in the forums if it actually did.
2. The amount of scaling happening is minimal and in general when that happens it can either be not noticeable at all, or it can completely ruin the picture by having to interpolate every pixel on the screen just to stretch it a slight bit further. I've personally never seen 1360x768 being rendered by the 360 but I've heard mixed results. some people claim it looks fantastic others claim the scaler trashes the image just trying to stretch it those few extra px.
The bottom line
Assuming the spring update did fix the colorspace/washed out picture issue this really comes down to scalers
component output at 720p uses your TV to upscale to it's native resolution
VGA output at 1360x768 uses the Xbx 360 to upscale to your TV's native resolution.
So it all depends whether the scaler in your console is better or worse then he scaler in your TV.
In general you want to do as few scaling operations as possible (no scaling at all is an ideal situation for maximum quality) Meaning the absolute WORST situation would be scaling the picture multiple times (which is what you're doing now when you output at 1080i).
My Suggestion:
Buy a VGA adapter and compare the VGA adapter at 1280x720 (yes I know this isn't your TV's native res) to Component at 720p... see which one gives you better COLOR and CONTRAST... This will compare how the color space differs on your TV between the two and this is FAR FAR more important then resolution.
If the Component video signal has better color and contrast in that comparison then stick with Component and sell the VGA cable on eBay or the BST forum.
If the VGA cable has better color and contrast then the Component cable then compare the VGA cable at 1280x720 to the VGA cable at 1360x768... this will compare the Xbox 360's scaler to your TVs scaler to determine which one scales the picture better... Use which ever setting has the best clarity.
If VGA has better color and contrast then compare
This post has been edited by twistedsymphony: Jun 18 2007, 04:23 AM
Post by: Foe-hammer on June 18, 2007, 04:16:00 PM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Jun 17 2007, 09:20 PM)
1. The VGA colorspace your TV accepts. The VGA output of the 360 was designed for computer monitors and thus outputs at higher levels over VGA. Most HDTVs with VGA ports are designed to accept HDTV colorspace over vga which typically has lower levels. As a result most people using the 360 with HDTVs over VGA experience a washed out picture.
MS claims that the last spring update fixed this issue but I've yet to hear from anyone here in the forums if it actually did.
It's actually the other way around. The 360 normally sent out "Video Levels" by default. So when vga was hooked up to PC monitors and a good few HDTV's that recognized "PC Level" with their VGA, the colors were washout. With the spring update there is an option for 3 different "levels": "STANDARD", "INTERMEDIATE" and "EXPERT". Standard = video levels, and Expert = PC levels. Intermediate is a color space between pc levels and video levels, and bastard color level so to speak, and rather pointless imo. Using Expert solved my problem with washout colors created by low contrast levels and non-true blacks.
Post by: twistedsymphony on June 19, 2007, 06:31:00 AM
QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Jun 18 2007, 06:16 PM)
It's actually the other way around. The 360 normally sent out "Video Levels" by default. So when vga was hooked up to PC monitors and a good few HDTV's that recognized "PC Level" with their VGA, the colors were washout. With the spring update there is an option for 3 different "levels": "STANDARD", "INTERMEDIATE" and "EXPERT". Standard = video levels, and Expert = PC levels. Intermediate is a color space between pc levels and video levels, and bastard color level so to speak, and rather pointless imo. Using Expert solved my problem with washout colors created by low contrast levels and non-true blacks.
I stand corrected...
I've never dealt with the video level issue first hand so I'm not as close to it as VGA users as yourself... good to know they did address it.
I should probably add that info to the FAQ.