Post by: RadATI on March 17, 2006, 07:36:00 PM
*Note: the Associate's name is not used to respect his/her privacy
{MS} Welcome to the Xbox North America Customer Support! My name is *Name removed *. How may I be of assistance?
{me} please give me a moment to type the next message
{MS} ok
{me} Hi, I understand that the Xbox 360 will come with an HD-DVD add-on later in the year, but HD-DVD will require HDMI or DVI cables to output a video signal. And as far as I'm concerned, the Xbox 360 mother-board is fixed in an anolog output. When the HD-DVD drive hits the market, will my Xbox 360 become obsolete with its disability to output in an hdmi cable? Do you know of any hdmi cables that will come out for the 360?
{MS} yes the 360 will soon have HDMI cables released for it soon
{MS} sorry
{me} Will it be compatible on ALL xbox 360 consoles?
{me} The motherboard looks extremely analog to me
{MS} compatible to all
{me} Do you have an estimate on when this will appear on the market?
{MS} not really kevin, just keep checking the website for any updates. ok?
{me} Alright thanks, is it ok with you if I post this chat on some Xbox forums? I will not use your real name to respect your privacy.
{MS} sure kevin
{me} Ok, thanks
{MS} It was a pleasure chatting with you today. Thank you for inquiring about Xbox. If you need further assistance, please come back and visit us again. I hope you have a nice day!
Does this sound ligit to you guys? This chat is is sworn to be quoted
Post by: HMAWL411 on March 17, 2006, 08:32:00 PM
Post by: gordita37 on March 17, 2006, 08:46:00 PM
QUOTE
cool but since you want to protect his privacy and all you might want to edit the first line of the convo
heh yeah I was thinking the same thing
Post by: marauderrt10 on March 17, 2006, 10:52:00 PM
QUOTE(HMAWL411 @ Mar 17 2006, 10:39 PM) 
cool but since you want to protect his privacy and all you might want to edit the first line of the convo
Haha, when i saw that i was laughing my ass off, haha.
Post by: RadATI on March 18, 2006, 07:07:00 AM
QUOTE(marauderrt10 @ Mar 18 2006, 12:59 AM)
Haha, when i saw that i was laughing my ass off, haha.
Oh $HIT!
Post by: Potato_salad on March 18, 2006, 04:40:00 PM
Post by: deadparrot on March 18, 2006, 04:44:00 PM
Post by: Arjun on March 18, 2006, 07:21:00 PM
Post by: LESTAT on March 19, 2006, 04:51:00 AM
do you even have anything that uses hdmi ? a tv ? is it 1080p capable ? no? then wtf are you worried for.
do you have an A/V reciever that is HDMI capable ? no ? guess what then your SOL you'll be listening to all those kick ass 5.1 Dolby games thru your shitty tv speakers in 2 channel stereo
do you have anything else in your household that does hdmi ? no then once again why even bother...
component or HDMI your not going to increase the viaual quality unless you got one crappy set of compnent cables..
and no where have i read that the xbox360 is able to output a digital video signal
another reason why you have not seen a DVI connector... although the ATI Chipset can do it.. i am not sure that its been said that it actually has been implemented in the architecture.
Post by: Potato_salad on March 19, 2006, 06:56:00 AM
Post by: RadATI on March 19, 2006, 07:00:00 AM
QUOTE(LESTAT @ Mar 19 2006, 06:58 AM)
you people and your HDMI
do you even have anything that uses hdmi ? a tv ? is it 1080p capable ? no? then wtf are you worried for.
do you have an A/V reciever that is HDMI capable ? no ? guess what then your SOL you'll be listening to all those kick ass 5.1 Dolby games thru your shitty tv speakers in 2 channel stereo
do you have anything else in your household that does hdmi ? no then once again why even bother...
component or HDMI your not going to increase the viaual quality unless you got one crappy set of compnent cables..
and no where have i read that the xbox360 is able to output a digital video signal
another reason why you have not seen a DVI connector... although the ATI Chipset can do it.. i am not sure that its been said that it actually has been implemented in the architecture.
Yeah? Well guess what? I have ALL OF THOSE. I mainly want the HDMI to have a slight chance of reducing video delay on my DLP.
Post by: Potato_salad on March 19, 2006, 07:06:00 AM
There goes another puppy!!!!
Post by: RadATI on March 19, 2006, 07:49:00 AM
QUOTE(Potato_salad @ Mar 19 2006, 09:13 AM)
GGGRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAHH!!!!!!!!!!!
There goes another puppy!!!!
Now you go to hell...
Post by: Potato_salad on March 19, 2006, 07:55:00 AM
Post by: RadATI on March 19, 2006, 08:30:00 AM
QUOTE(Potato_salad @ Mar 19 2006, 10:02 AM)
Just tell me what the stupid HDMI thingy is!
High Definition Media Interface !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Potato_salad on March 19, 2006, 08:37:00 AM
Post by: RadATI on March 19, 2006, 08:38:00 AM
QUOTE(Potato_salad @ Mar 19 2006, 10:44 AM)
Ahhh! So ,what does that do then? Does it like , make wireless AV senders show in HD on HD TVs ,and have less video delay?
ah... JA JA SI SI
100% Digital!!!
Post by: Potato_salad on March 19, 2006, 09:31:00 AM
Post by: Elemino on March 19, 2006, 12:19:00 PM
HDMI is simply another new connection. Only instead of just being video like DVI, it has audio too.
BTW to LESTAT. They sell TV's at WalMart now that have HDMI connectors on them. I've been thinking about getting one. It's new just like component was several years ago. Pretty soon, it'll be common place technology since ALL TV's will eventually be digital. Now they have a $600 32inch Sanyo/GE at WalMart that supports resolution up to 1080i and has an HDMI input... I've been seriously considering it now that I have a 360 and full support through my computer's video card. Anyway, my point is your little rant was unnecessary.
Post by: gerzand on March 19, 2006, 07:23:00 PM
Post by: C o s m o on March 19, 2006, 09:04:00 PM
Post by: celicagt1993 on March 20, 2006, 02:02:00 AM
Post by: C o s m o on March 20, 2006, 07:19:00 AM
QUOTE(celicagt1993 @ Mar 20 2006, 03:09 AM)
ok, then here's my 2 quesiton... I know that HDMI has audio going through it, will it be able to convert to DVI and still keep the security? if so, what about audio? currently i have a sony 52" tv that has dvi, and i'm using an optical 5.1 sound system, i know that my tv is hdcp (too lazy to look it up and can't remember the exact name of it) for the security, but i don't want to have to buy a new tv just for this. any ideas?
The HDCP will be fine if you convert from HDMI to DVI (it's still all digital, so no worries
)DVI does not carry audio, so you'll need to keep your toslink cable for surround sound.
Post by: twistedsymphony on March 20, 2006, 07:28:00 AM
oh and Potato_salad next time you have a question like that Just read the damn sticky... I try to answer all the basic questions people might ask in the stickies...
moving to AV Technical...
Post by: lowendfrequency on March 20, 2006, 07:59:00 AM
Post by: lowendfrequency on March 20, 2006, 10:51:00 AM
Post by: DragoNs on March 20, 2006, 11:00:00 AM
QUOTE(lowendfrequency @ Mar 20 2006, 10:06 AM)
I think we all knew that when the HD-DVD hit we would get the HDMI cable, which is great... less cables and it free's up a component input on my TV. The real question now is, when will the HD-DVD drive be released? Content should be hitting shelves this month...
Thats why i want it, too many component cables, i hate having to switch them, would be nice for the 360 to go to the HDMI port
Post by: Potato_salad on March 20, 2006, 11:06:00 AM
QUOTE(C o s m o @ Mar 20 2006, 04:11 AM)
The reason we want HDMI is because when HD-DVD is out in the marketplace, we will need HDMI. Read any one of TwistedSymphony's hundreds of posts about HD-DVD and the DVD consortium. HD-DVD will be written in such a way that without wither DVI or HDMI, we won't be able to view HD-DVDs. HDMI will be required for us to watch HD-DVD movies.
Ahh ,Ok I get it now! Thanks!!
Post by: Owtlaw333 on March 20, 2006, 08:47:00 PM
QUOTE(thax @ Mar 20 2006, 10:11 AM)
Unfortunately the HDMI interface is for the HD-DVD drive only. It is highly likely that the accessory will have a custom patch cable that will take the analog output from the console and input it into the HD-DVD accessory. The HD-DVD drive can then encode the analog signal for transmission over HDMI. The end result is component quality over an HDMI connection.
Most people probably cannot tell the difference anyway, they will simply think they are getting a better picture quality.
Let me know if I'm understanding what you wrote..... You think that the HDMI cable will plug into the HD-DVD drive itself? If that's what ur saying, I HIGHLY doubt that, lol. Because if that was the case, there would be NO point to hooking it up to the 360. It would be a standalone. Unless there's gunna be some retarded converter block of somesort that comes with this cable, I'm pretty sure it's all gunna be digital. I'm giving M$ the benefit of the doubt and say they wouldn't be so stupd as to not have this thing output in digital.
I'm wondering if they'll alow for upconverting of DVDs with this cable... prolly more wishfull thinking though. But it would be nice, lol.
And LESTAT.... ur an idiot. Of course everyone interested in this cable has fuckin' HDMI/DVI... otherwise they WOULDN'T BE INTERESTED! And I too have a reciever with 3 HDMI ins and out and a TV with DVI... answer all ur questions?
Post by: trey85stang on March 21, 2006, 02:20:00 AM
QUOTE(LESTAT @ Mar 19 2006, 12:58 PM)
you people and your HDMI
do you even have anything that uses hdmi ? a tv ? is it 1080p capable ? no? then wtf are you worried for.
do you have an A/V reciever that is HDMI capable ? no ? guess what then your SOL you'll be listening to all those kick ass 5.1 Dolby games thru your shitty tv speakers in 2 channel stereo
do you have anything else in your household that does hdmi ? no then once again why even bother...
component or HDMI your not going to increase the viaual quality unless you got one crappy set of compnent cables..
and no where have i read that the xbox360 is able to output a digital video signal
another reason why you have not seen a DVI connector... although the ATI Chipset can do it.. i am not sure that its been said that it actually has been implemented in the architecture.
one calbel vs 7 cables. Let me think about this long and hard. I will take the one cable. Post by: celicagt1993 on March 21, 2006, 03:47:00 AM
QUOTE(CKwik240 @ Mar 21 2006, 10:08 AM)
Actually, I think what he is saying is that the 360 will plug into the HD-DVD accessory directly. Then the HD-DVD accessory will output the video for both the 360 and the HD-DVD's over an HDMI cable. In a way it's almost a stand alone, but the 360 would supply the GUI and remote interface(via remote control or game controller) for the HD-DVD accessory.
i could possibly see that, since what's i've heard is the output for the 360 is analog. if this is the case, then the hddvd drive will probably cost more... I really don't want to see that... there again isn't MS suppose to want things to be easy? who would really want to run 2 cables (usb and audio video) from the 360 to the drive, then run a cable from the drive to the tv? wouldn't it be easier to run one usb cable to the 360? i wonder if the av cable/port only does av or if it does some type of data? with only 3 usb ports, and the one in the back suppost to be the wireless, then that would mean you would have to hook it up to the front. I for one don't want that... that's why i got wireless remotes so i don't have cables coming out of the front.
interesting side note, if this drive runns off usb, would it work with a computer?????? might be a cheaper solution to HD-=DVD with computer if it's not another $500... how about a price for this, what would you guys be willing to pay for the HDDVD drive? I probably wouldn't pay more than $150.... correction, i would pay, but i woulnd't be happy for anything over $150
Post by: Foe-hammer on March 21, 2006, 05:03:00 AM
Post by: twistedsymphony on March 21, 2006, 09:09:00 AM
2nd - the AVIP port on the 360 flat out does not have digital signals present, There are jumpers to change the ports output into various formats (component, composite, s-video, scart, vga, etc.) all the possible combinations of jumpers have been tried and the console in it's current state does not output a digital signal AT ALL. This means that there either needs to be A. a hardware update, meaning only new versions of the console will be able to output in HDMI or B. the HDMI output will come directly from the HD-DVD drive, meaning no HDMI without it. There is a remote possibility that they could update the software on the encoder chip (not much is known about the chip) to include Digital output. I find it unlikely because if the chip was actually capable of digital output I believe MS would have it capable out of the box but disabled (by jumper configuration) until the cable was released.
3rd - having the HDMI output come from the DVD drive DOES NOT mean it's a complete stand alone player, the drive reads the content on the disc then passes it off to the Xbox to process it and actually generate the image, which would then pass it back to the DVD drive to where it would convert the data into the HDMI format before outputting. I HIGHLY doubt you'll see the component cables go from the AVIP back into the HD-DVD drive, considering that would be an unsecured signal and even if it was a specialized cable there wouldn't be anything stopping you from hijacking that before the HDCP was added... I don't see it happening.
4th - I don't think you'll see this drive get used in PCs for a long long time (if ever). Official drivers will not be released because PCs currently don't offer HDCP protection. it's impossible with todays hardware AND software. Windows Vista will be the first and only OS to offer it, and even then you'll need an HDCP capable drive, video card and monitor to view these discs on a PC. By the time that stuff rolls out I'm sure they'll also have much cheaper HD-DVD drives purpose built for the PC. The only way you'd see the 360's drive on the PC is if someone wrote custom drivers for it. And we don't even have fully functional drivers for the last gen Xbox's DVD drive, By the time someone were to figure it out it'd be pretty useless as again the cheaper PC equivalents will probably already be available.
5th - I think Foe-Hammers price estimates are about correct, $200 - $250 (I would say possibly even $300) would seem to be the most appropriate price point for a drive like this. Considering the stand alone players will start at $500 the add-on drive + console would need to be competitive with that. Core+HD-DVD would place it at $200, they could easily excuse a higher price considering you get a whole console on top of that. Alternatively they could price match a 360+HD-DVD drive to the price of the PS3, which could put it anywhere depending on the PS3's price point. Based on the hardware involved I think the $200-$250 is the most plausible price point though.
6th -I think the HDMI cable will probably completely evaporate if HD-DVD follows Blu-Ray's lead and drops the HDCP requirement. http://slashdot.org/...6/03/16/2047251
I've been all for HD-DVD over Blu-Ray since I saw their initial specs, but since Blu-Ray has dropped the HDCP requirement they're getting my support, that is unless HD-DVD follows suit.
You can bet that MS wont bother increasing the cost of the HD-DVD drive, or spend the money rolling out an extra cable type to add digital support if they don't have to.
Post by: thax on March 21, 2006, 01:46:00 PM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Mar 21 2006, 05:16 PM)
3rd - having the HDMI output come from the DVD drive DOES NOT mean it's a complete stand alone player, the drive reads the content on the disc then passes it off to the Xbox to process it and actually generate the image, which would then pass it back to the DVD drive to where it would convert the data into the HDMI format before outputting. I HIGHLY doubt you'll see the component cables go from the AVIP back into the HD-DVD drive, considering that would be an unsecured signal and even if it was a specialized cable there wouldn't be anything stopping you from hijacking that before the HDCP was added... I don't see it happening.
So do you think that the HD-DVD drive will be USB attached, then upload the compessed data from the drive to the console and download rendered video and finally output from the drive via HDMI?
Post by: trey85stang on March 21, 2006, 09:44:00 PM
Post by: Owtlaw333 on March 22, 2006, 12:51:00 AM
QUOTE(trey85stang @ Mar 21 2006, 08:51 PM)
the speculation in this thread is rediculous. Why don't you guys just ask the magic 8-ball what M$ will do.
What would be the fun in that? It's called a discussion. It's what people do to entertain themselves when there's nothing else to do. Get over it.
And that thing about Sony dropping HDCP is still speculation to me. When it comes from Sony's mouth and the film industry, I'll believe it. But if it really does happen, you can bet on HD-DVD following suit. I don't see how they couldn't. They're already behind in popularity, and if they didn't do the same as BluRay, it would be the final nail (or all of them) in they're coffin. I too would like HD-DVD to win, but it's not lookin' too well. Although Sony seems to keep chokin', so we'll see.
Post by: twistedsymphony on March 22, 2006, 07:28:00 AM
QUOTE(thax @ Mar 21 2006, 03:53 PM)
So do you think that the HD-DVD drive will be USB attached, then upload the compessed data from the drive to the console and download rendered video and finally output from the drive via HDMI?
I don't believe the signal will come out of the AV port in an analogue fashion and back out the drive in digital..
I question the bandwidth available through the USB ports for such a thing and I wouldn't put it past MS to somehow use the HDD's SATA port to connect the drive.
who knows though, they could have something up there sleeve in terms of the video encoders capabilities, really anything is possible these are just the theories of my magic 8 ball...
Post by: prankfurter on March 22, 2006, 07:59:00 AM
Post by: thax on March 22, 2006, 10:57:00 AM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Mar 22 2006, 03:35 PM)
I question the bandwidth available through the USB ports for such a thing and I wouldn't put it past MS to somehow use the HDD's SATA port to connect the drive.
Using the SATA port would be the best action, as using up the only available USB port really sucks. I also wonder about the USB bandwidth when you consider that the rear port is a single USB line with a limited bandwidth.
QUOTE(prankfurter @ Mar 22 2006, 04:06 PM)
the 400mb/s avialable to usb 2.0 should be more than enough to handle the HD video...
Maybe. Remember that is 40 MB, or 40 Megabytes per second for USB 2.0. This is the theoretical maximum capacity of the transmission, there is overhead which reduces this number. Then you need to consider that not only does the data have to go up to the console at 4.56 MB/s in a compressed form, it needs to come back to the HD/DVD player in a secured format which will be much larger than the original compressed format. HDMI has something like 625 MB/s bandwidth, which greatly dwarfs the available USB 2.0 capacity. This means if MS uses USB it will need to transport the digital signal back to the HD-DVD drive in a proprietary format and then re-encode it to transmit it via HDMI.
It would be much easier for MS if the HD-DVD accessory was pretty much a standalone player controlled by the x360. Output from the x360 would then be passed through the HD-DVD drive to reduce the number of hookups required. Don't be dissappointed if this is the case.