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Xbox360 Forums => Xbox360 Hardware Forums => Xbox360 Audio/Video Technical => Topic started by: Gman22 on September 30, 2005, 05:48:00 AM

Title: Nextgeneration - Hdtv And Its Problems
Post by: Gman22 on September 30, 2005, 05:48:00 AM
What about a rear-projection TV, or Projectors?

Excellent article otherwise.

Gman22
Title: Nextgeneration - Hdtv And Its Problems
Post by: Gman22 on September 30, 2005, 06:03:00 AM
"Projector/Beamer"

At first I thought you were making fun of Mexicans...Beaner...lol


Gman22
Title: Nextgeneration - Hdtv And Its Problems
Post by: xboxmodder4life on September 30, 2005, 06:18:00 AM
what about rear projection tv's? You didnt write anything about them. I have a toshiba 46inch rear projection 46h84 and it has some excellent video qaulity. From what i understand a properly calibrated Rear Projection can rival most other sets in picture qaulity. Mine isn't professionally calibrated because it would cost like 400-500$ and for that price i could buy almost half of my tv.
Title: Nextgeneration - Hdtv And Its Problems
Post by: xboxmodder4life on September 30, 2005, 06:22:00 AM
rear projection is also CRT thats the most common type of rear projection tv.

http://www.bestbuy.c...mcat55300050014



best buy description to lazy to find a better source of info on rear projection crt
Title: Nextgeneration - Hdtv And Its Problems
Post by: CrisK on September 30, 2005, 07:37:00 AM
Wow...many errors in your post.

I have a Plasma and an LCD (I don't own a DLP, so I can't speak of them), but almost every point you made in those 2 categories is wrong.  UNLESS, you are buying the cheapest model you can find.

Here are some basic corrections:

Plasma:

- Low Contrast
*** now rated up to 5000:1 - of course that is from the specs, so numbers are not true to real life experiences.

- Image Interpolation due to Weird Resolutions (1380*720 for example)
*** highest resolution possible on today's plasmas is 1366x768 and you can't notice any interpolation

- Black appears as dark green
*** blacks appear as black, sorry that's a fact on any decent screen

- Well lit room decreases visual quality
*** unless there is direct sunlight on the screen (which is an issue for an display device), not much of an issue

- Burn-in
*** not really an issue after the first 100 hours or so

- LifeSpan is very short  
*** 60,000 hours until half life is reached - that is close to 20 years of normal use

LCD - Liquid Crystal Displays:

- Low Contrast
*** agree somewhat, but are definitely getting much better with each new model

- Black Appears as Dark Green
*** not anymore, but true of older models

- Well lit room decreases visual quality
*** appear looks better in a brighter room due to their lower contrast ratio

- Image does not always show properly; depending at which angle you look at the TV.
*** most have 170 viewing angle - but who watches from such extreme angles anyway

- Low Refreshrate causing the image to blur on its own.
*** only true of the cheapest LCDs
- Dead Pixels (They come without additional cost!)
*** this is true, but highly doubtful that you would notice one from any distance greater than 3 or so feet
- Interpolation
*** get a screen that is true 720p and then this is not an issue


Have you even seen a Plasma or LCD in someone's home set up properly?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Rear Projection usually is Plasma or DLP

I havent heard of other technology used for Rear Projection TV's."

Plasma is not rear projection.
There are rear projection versions of LCD, CRT, and DLP.

Title: Nextgeneration - Hdtv And Its Problems
Post by: CrayZEE on September 30, 2005, 10:06:00 AM
Okay let's have a go at it smile.gif

5000:1 is low. A Sony Wega CRT, (a 300$ 32" TV) has ~10000:1 Contrast.

Indeed 5000:1 seems high when you are used to low quality LCD which came with 500:1 for quite some time.

Image interpolation is always a problem. Does it look worse then the image rendered in the backbuffer? Sure does!. But, it doesn't mean its complete and utter crap. But i don't believe up or downsampling images to scale/fit your TV Screen is good. It decreases quality, even if it is so little, you dont have the exact image that is in the backbuffer. This affects your quality, it doesn't make the image work pixel by pixel and thats just a fact. Wheter it bothers you or not, its up to you, for me it does.

Black does not always appear as black. You can read that anywhere, its a pretty normal fault in any screen other then CRT. I won't even get into that. But we know that black doesnt exist as color, it is always a darkened primary color (green or blue usually).

Indeed if you purchase top of the line products for well over 3500$ you can get less problematic devices/displays. But low contrast is something that always remains, Dead Pixels do remain, problems with light (not sunlight alone) will remain and so will the rainbow effect on a DLP.

Anyhow, im off to have some fun instead of worrying of new technology wink.gif
Title: Nextgeneration - Hdtv And Its Problems
Post by: CKwik240 on September 30, 2005, 11:29:00 AM
Personally, all these specs are crap.  Most are relatively hard to perceive.  Go to a TV store.  Look at the differences.  You'll find alot more differences between cheap and expensive versions of the same technology than between the expensive versions of the different technologies or the cheap versions of different technologies.  Visually that is.  So if picture quality is of concern, shop around and see what is most appealing to you.  The human eyes don't see the numbers listed in teh specs.  We perceive the picture.  That's all that really matters.  Looking around at big screens, I see very nice picture qualities in each of the technologies out there.  What would make the difference for me is functionality, ergonomics(including required space), and maintenance(longevity).  

I am mostly considering Rear projection DLP, and Rear projection LCD.  Possibly even a flat CRT, but I haven't seen any first hand yet.  And of course given decent picture quality, I want the biggest damned thing I can afford.   tongue.gif
Title: Nextgeneration - Hdtv And Its Problems
Post by: hugoboss1 on September 30, 2005, 11:44:00 AM
Quote
With the inclusion of HD cables as standard, Itagaki hopes that people will end up making the move to HDTV. He suggests standard CRT over other types, devoting a lengthy rant to his displeasure with LCD televisions. Itagaki states that Team Ninja has “flagship class” LCD televisions throughout its offices, and he’s not impressed with any of them. The problem, he states, isn’t so much with response time, but with inaccurate color. Combine that with the high prices, and he comes to the conclusion: “buying a CRT is, as a gamer, a wise choice.”
Title: Nextgeneration - Hdtv And Its Problems
Post by: JustDanMI on September 30, 2005, 01:01:00 PM
I bought a 61" RCA Scenium DLP tv and I love it.  When I went shopping for TV's I wanted something comparable to a CRT tv quality but bigger.  

Plasma's look GREAT......but they do have a higher chance of burn in AND the plasma cells will burn out themselves because plasma only lasts for so long.  Not to mention you can see all of the plasma cells if you look close enough.  

LCD looked allrigtht, as long as you were pretty far away from it.  If you get close you can see all the lines and pixels in the TV, and that was something I was trying to stay clear of.

Since LCD, and Plasma were the only one's that could hang on the wall, I was out of luck on that.  But the DLP was my best solution for a TV that had a picture comparable to a CRT, yet bigger.  The DLP is rear projection, so there are no lines, or pixels to see, no matter how close you get to the TV.  The picture looked great on it still, and the black actually looked black, and not the greyish color you can see on LCD's.  The light bulbs do burn out, but I've had mine for 3 years now and I'm still on my original bulb, and my TV is on ALOT.  Even if it did burn out tomorrow, the bulb's for my model are only 75 bucks, and it's easy to access to change it.  75 bucks every 3 years isn't that bad in my opinion.  The rainbow effect you mentioned only appears to a small percentage of people.  

All in all, you get what you pay for.  If your looking for a cheap tv, don't expect the best quality.  My DLP was 2,800 at ABC Warehouse, I saw them listed as high as 3,800 at other places.  I love my DLP TV, and I'm still glad I bought it to this day.
Title: Nextgeneration - Hdtv And Its Problems
Post by: hugoboss1 on September 30, 2005, 01:18:00 PM
I want to make sure I get a 2005  model DLP...and Ill buy bulbs in advance just in case they are discontinued..
Title: Nextgeneration - Hdtv And Its Problems
Post by: Marinos33 on September 30, 2005, 02:52:00 PM
my 30" sony CRT HDTV sure looks damn good now, especially with native 720p AND 1080i.  i was careful to get one that doesn't down- or up-sample the signals to non-intended resolutions.  I love it.  I keep thinking about getting a bigger TV, but in my pretty small living room abut 6 - 8' from the screen, it seems just right.  If there are any doubters out there, I highly recommend the CRT's as high-quality, budget-sensitive purchases.  Just be willing to spend the extra for the signal handling.
Title: Nextgeneration - Hdtv And Its Problems
Post by: JustDanMI on October 01, 2005, 12:14:00 PM
tongue.gif  Nothing like feeling like your right there in the game.
Title: Nextgeneration - Hdtv And Its Problems
Post by: EMAGDNIM on October 04, 2005, 09:22:00 AM
QUOTE(CrayZEE @ Sep 30 2005, 08:10 AM)
Projector/Beamer: