Post by: LowProfileWurm on February 08, 2006, 09:00:00 AM
I'm not going to copy and paste the whole thing (unless someone asks nicely), but these are the parts I found interesting:
QUOTE
February 7, 2006 - I'm just going to say it: Tomb Raider Legend is the first game since Tomb Raider 2 that's worth your time and money. Crystal Dynamics' upcoming version of the famed action-adventure game, a series that helped forge PlayStation's fame in the late 1990s and pushed the first major female videogame character into the worldwide spotlight (no offense to Nintendo's great Samus, of course), really should be called Tomb Raider 3.
QUOTE
The 360 version is beautiful. The game is the same content on all platforms, so you won't play anything different on the Xbox than you will on Xbox 360. Although admittedly, the PSP version does offer mini-games and neat additions the others don't. But the Xbox 360 version is the high-end floor model. It's the showgirl. Lara's character features 24 MBs of textures alone and it contains 12 times the texture memory capable on the PS2. She's comprised of 20,000 polygons -- so her model is entirely re-done from the ground up on Xbox 360. And I have to say, this version of Lara Croft is sexy. For a character that lost her charm long ago, it's nice to see Ms. Croft looking so realistic in design, so carefully crafted, and as a result, so hot. This is the best looking version of Lara Croft you've ever seen.
QUOTE
The latest build puts to bed some of my fears, which sprung up due to the clunky demo that is about to hit retail stands. In that short demo, you'll find some very basic combat, which isn't the focus of the game. Combat always has been an area in need of improvement in Tomb Raider. But it's never been fixed. Even though I played the demo twice, I missed a bunch of hidden action moves in Lara's new repertoire. Her trademark twin pistols do make a comeback. She runs and strafes around enemies when you press the lock-on button, and she can certainly perform the classic side-ways strafe flip to boot. But the list gets better.
Edit: Eh, one more...
QUOTE
Bullet time has been used and abused in many a game, but this is sparingly implemented so it makes for great variety in combat. Lara can also reach out and gun-butt her enemy too, another little satisfying move. Oh, and that rappel line you've heard about so often? It too comes in handy during a fight.
There's more, but I gotta get back to work. Enjoy.
This post has been edited by LowProfileWurm: Feb 8 2006, 05:02 PM
Post by: twistedsymphony on February 08, 2006, 11:01:00 AM
I think game developers need to realize that making spending the extra time on graphics for the high performace version can increase your profits across all platforms as you can use the high horsepower version as your "high-end floor model".
Post by: miggidy on February 08, 2006, 11:39:00 AM
QUOTE
The first version of Tomb Raider: Legend that we checked out today was running on the Xbox 360, and it appeared to be a very similar demo to the PS2 version we played of a couple of weeks ago. The main difference, of course, was the quality of the visuals, which appeared to be taking advantage of just about every graphical bell and whistle that MS's new console can offer. The standout feature of the visuals was undoubtedly the normal-mapping techniques used to add detail and textures to what would otherwise be artificially smooth surfaces. This was evident not only on cave walls, ancient tiled floors, boulders, and such, but also on the delectable Lara Croft, who now boasts realistic skin textures that look good even when you give into temptation and zoom the camera in for a close look at her. Other eye candy that we found particularly tasty during our presentation included the realistic shadows being cast by each and every object, and the convincingly animated pools of water, which performed their reflecting and refracting duties with aplomb. We played the game on a 720p HDTV, incidentally, and although we only got to see it running at 4:3, we were told that widescreen support will also be included.
Read the rest http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/tombra...tml?sid=6143861!
This post has been edited by miggidy: Feb 8 2006, 07:40 PM
Post by: LowProfileWurm on February 08, 2006, 12:06:00 PM
IGN said their was lots of self-shadowing in the game (so the people who miss it in Oblivion will be happy
). I'm really looking forward to this resurrection.
Post by: miggidy on February 08, 2006, 03:02:00 PM
QUOTE(LowProfileWurm @ Feb 8 2006, 08:13 PM) 
IGN said their was lots of self-shadowing in the game (so the people who miss it in Oblivion will be happy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)).
Haha! That's exactly why I highlighted that part in the quote I posted (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
I wonder if these guys bitch every time the freakin groundhog doesn't see his shadow? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
(IMG:http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050202/050202_groundhog_hmed_6a.hmedium.jpg)
Post by: redwolf on February 08, 2006, 03:02:00 PM
http://xbox.gamespy....d/686667p1.html
QUOTE
Unsurprisingly, the PC and Xbox 360 versions will lead the pack in graphics. Normal, diffuse, parallax, and several other types of mapping will gives these versions an extra edge, with four to eight times the texture data of the other games. Much like those notorious basketball players, Lara will gleam when wet, and dry off over time. Similarly, rolling around in the dirt will give her that not-so-fresh look. Further, real-time lighting adds extra dazzle to her flashlight, and the Xbox 360 version will feature Live! awareness and achievements. The one disappointment so far is that the 360 version will only run at 30 frames per second. Its 720p widescreen looks nice, but not so much that it shouldn't be humming along at 60.
The Xbox version, by comparison, is actually the one version that does run at 60 fps. While it lacks most of those fancy effects mentioned above, it still features significantly more detailed textures than the PS2 version, and the smoother framerate is a treat. The PS2 version is the least impressive of the console SKUs, but that's to be expected, and it still looks very good. Xbox and PS2 both support widescreen, by the way.
The Xbox version, by comparison, is actually the one version that does run at 60 fps. While it lacks most of those fancy effects mentioned above, it still features significantly more detailed textures than the PS2 version, and the smoother framerate is a treat. The PS2 version is the least impressive of the console SKUs, but that's to be expected, and it still looks very good. Xbox and PS2 both support widescreen, by the way.
Post by: miggidy on February 08, 2006, 03:10:00 PM
Ok now that is very disappointing....
It doesn't mean I won't buy this game but we all know the 360 is capable of running this game at 60 fps.
I'd rather have the game late with 60 fps than early at 30 fps (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Post by: LowProfileWurm on February 08, 2006, 03:24:00 PM
I'd rather them ditch the self-shadowing ala Oblivion and get a tad higher framerate somewhere around 40 or so. And that groundhog comment made cry.
Post by: redwolf on February 08, 2006, 03:24:00 PM
QUOTE(miggidy @ Feb 9 2006, 12:17 AM) 
30 frames per second?
Ok now that is very disappointing....
It doesn't mean I won't buy this game but we all know the 360 is capable of running this game at 60 fps.
I'd rather have the game late with 60 fps than early at 30 fps
i don't think there is a playable 360 version given to any of these review company.
cos according to IGN (link above from the original poster)
QUOTE("IGN")
In today's demo we played the Xbox and PS2 versions and watched the Xbox 360 game.
not sure if they're talking about a premade or realtime demo of a video. 
if there was a actual "playable" demo for the 360 version GameSpy have, let just hope it's an old build, and since it's gonna get about 1 month or so extra for the development of 360 version, they may fix/tweak it.
Post by: Deftech on February 08, 2006, 03:29:00 PM
you will all get Legend and you will like it, regardless of frame rate. Bow to Lara and kiss her sexy tender feet!
Post by: prankfurter on February 08, 2006, 04:03:00 PM
Post by: BanjoK on February 08, 2006, 04:08:00 PM
Post by: miggidy on February 08, 2006, 05:28:00 PM
QUOTE(LowProfileWurm @ Feb 8 2006, 11:31 PM)
My only solace here regarding the 30fps... does Tomb Raider really need 60fps? I mean, we survived hundreds of games at 30fps just a few years ago (in fact, I remember when 60fps was a buzz word). She'll be running, jumping, shooting and puzzle solving. None of those really require 60fps. I'd be miffed if a RACING game or FPS didn't run at 60fps, but Tomb Raider? Compared to Burnout, Lara might as well just be standing still.
I'd rather them ditch the self-shadowing ala Oblivion and get a tad higher framerate somewhere around 40 or so. And that groundhog comment made cry.
You won't hear me arguing over 60 fps, so Def I'm not much of a graphics whore.
30 fps will do this game just fine, every other game in the series was fine with the same frame count.
But I'd sure love to see Lara in her full 60fps/720p glory
What I don't like here is that this particular dev (as well as others) is/are cutting corners.
What makes this worse is that they're doing it just to make sure the game is ready in time for a multi-platform release date.
Oh well, life goes on
Post by: twistedsymphony on February 08, 2006, 06:16:00 PM
Post by: LowProfileWurm on February 08, 2006, 06:45:00 PM
QUOTE(miggidy @ Feb 8 2006, 07:35 PM)
What I don't like here is that this particular dev (as well as others) is/are cutting corners.
What makes this worse is that they're doing it just to make sure the game is ready in time for a multi-platform release date.
Oh well, life goes on
Post by: redwolf on February 08, 2006, 06:53:00 PM
Post by: Deftech on February 08, 2006, 07:36:00 PM
QUOTE(redwolf @ Feb 8 2006, 09:00 PM)
speechless
Post by: miggidy on February 08, 2006, 07:50:00 PM
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)
I think I just found a new sig pic!
Post by: Heet on February 09, 2006, 12:17:00 AM
Post by: twistedsymphony on February 09, 2006, 06:33:00 AM
QUOTE(Heet @ Feb 9 2006, 02:24 AM)
Wait, its a ps2 port...
They're speculating
Even if they use the same engine, I'd hardly consider it a port if all the models have been re-done from the ground up.
Engines as the backbone of the game typically have to be re-written even for ports meaning the 360 version probably has NOTHING in common with the PS2 version in terms of graphics.
Post by: cjd70510 on February 09, 2006, 06:49:00 AM
Post by: KAGE360 on February 09, 2006, 07:14:00 AM
http://www.gamersrep....com/news/1287/
Post by: LowProfileWurm on February 09, 2006, 08:11:00 AM
A few more:
From Xboxyde: http://www.xboxyde.c...ws_2556_en.html
So THAT's what 20,000 poly's gets us? Wow.
As for the speculation: All my comments are speculation. I'm assuming that PS2 is the base design (largest user base) and then they work from there.
Post by: KAGE360 on February 09, 2006, 08:46:00 AM
QUOTE(LowProfileWurm @ Feb 9 2006, 10:18 AM)
So THAT's what 20,000 poly's gets us? Wow.
As for the speculation: All my comments are speculation. I'm assuming that PS2 is the base design (largest user base) and then they work from there.
its that fact that leads me to still believe that the game IS being held back by being a last gen port. i think the game looks great, really beautiful. however i thought that 20k polys (even though im sure that is MUCH higher then last gen versions) was kind of low for a next gen character model after hearing about other games using many many more polys per character.
still damn impressive though, game is looking much better then i thought it would. its good to see lara back in a positive way.
Post by: LowProfileWurm on February 09, 2006, 08:58:00 AM
QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Feb 9 2006, 10:53 AM)
its that fact that leads me to still believe that the game IS being held back by being a last gen port. i think the game looks great, really beautiful. however i thought that 20k polys (even though im sure that is MUCH higher then last gen versions) was kind of low for a next gen character model after hearing about other games using many many more polys per character.
still damn impressive though, game is looking much better then i thought it would. its good to see lara back in a positive way.
Post by: KAGE360 on February 09, 2006, 09:55:00 AM
QUOTE(LowProfileWurm @ Feb 9 2006, 11:05 AM)
Poly count is different for each game. Racing games (where the cars are the focus and the track goes ripping by) often put most of the poly budget into the cars. Fighting games are the same way. The fighters get all the polygons and the backgrounds get a reduced number. Action games are different because there are NPC's and interactive backgrounds to worry about. But, poly's don't really matter SO much anymore right? It's all about the shaders now.
yeah i understand all of that. i realized that long ago that polys dont mean as much now and what matters more is the "paint" (textures, shaders, effects) that the devs can put on these polys that is making more of a difference. im not downplaying it or saying its too low and sucks because of this, i just get the feeling if this was a next gen project from the get-go, there would be more polys being pushed throughout the whole scene not just the characters.
Post by: LowProfileWurm on February 09, 2006, 09:57:00 AM
QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Feb 9 2006, 12:02 PM)
yeah i understand all of that. i realized that long ago that polys dont mean as much now and what matters more is the "paint" (textures, shaders, effects) that the devs can put on these polys that is making more of a difference. im not downplaying it or saying its too low and sucks because of this, i just get the feeling if this was a next gen project from the get-go, there would be more polys being pushed throughout the whole scene not just the characters.
Post by: KAGE360 on February 09, 2006, 10:23:00 AM
QUOTE(LowProfileWurm @ Feb 9 2006, 12:04 PM)
I guess 20K is better than the 500 or so she was comprised of in TR1!!
i dont know i kinda liked the huge cone/triangle tits lol
i just pretended she was wearing one of madanna's former bras or something
Post by: twistedsymphony on February 09, 2006, 11:04:00 AM
PGR3 might have 90K polys per car but it also had an engine purpose built for the 360 and still can't run at full rez and can't use full FSAA, AND still only runs at 30FPS, couple that with the fact you're limiting the game to only 8 cars, and car's arn't really animated at all (basically it's a giant block with 4 wheels that move in 3 of 6 axis).
Then you have THIS game that has a character with more movement and animation in one of her fingers then an entire car model in PGR3.
Remember you typically need to improve the poly count on an EXPONENTIAL scale to improve the visual appeal on an incremental scale.
I've been told DOA4 and the upcoming Rumble roses only use 50K polys per character and those games only have 2 characters on the screen at a time. No to mention the "Rubie" tech demo ATI put on to demo the Xenos only used 70K average poly's per character, And that's a TECH demo with no AI Physics, or logic of any kind, optimized for that processor and that processor only meaning no game will probably ever touch that.
Also you don't know how many on-screen baddies they plan on having on screen at a time in TRL. If there's 20 or 30 then 20K is a pretty impressive number
putting it in that perspective I can't imagine why you'd like think 20K poly's is being "held back" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
This post has been edited by twistedsymphony: Feb 9 2006, 07:07 PM
Post by: LowProfileWurm on February 09, 2006, 11:20:00 AM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Feb 9 2006, 01:11 PM)
Also you don't know how many on-screen baddies they plan on having on screen at a time in TRL. If there's 20 or 30 then 20K is a pretty impressive number
Haha, ok, all kidding aside, I'm pretty surprised they are even going with 20K for Lara. I think Lara in Angel of Darkness only had 5000 polys and no shaders that I'm aware of. I'm most intrigued by the comment that "like the fighters in Fight Night Round 3, Lara will appear wet when swimming and will gradually dry off." And no, Deftech, I doubt there will be any wet-tshirt contests.
Regardless, I think the gaming industry is a little diluted when it comes to "next-gen" gaming visuals. Thanks to Sony and the Killzone demo...
Post by: KAGE360 on February 09, 2006, 12:43:00 PM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Feb 9 2006, 01:11 PM)
putting it in that perspective I can't imagine why you'd like think 20K poly's is being "held back"
dont get me wrong, im excited as all hell for this game and it impresses me more then i expected originally. but my main point is that i believe the game would look much better if disigned for next gen consoles. regardless of how they re-made the characters for the 360, i dont think its the same if they just made it for the 360 from scratch. the game is gorgeous, not dissapointed in any ways, just looking forward to what they do with a true next gen tomb raider is all. i understand your point of 20k being enough especially with multiple characters running around and more animation being thrown on screen then a racer but i believe we'll be getting MUCH more in the coming years out of these consoles once the developers come to grips with the new architecture.
Post by: twistedsymphony on February 09, 2006, 12:59:00 PM
Because the impression I get from these articles is that it IS being re-built specifically for the 360.
This post has been edited by twistedsymphony: Feb 9 2006, 09:00 PM
Post by: miggidy on February 09, 2006, 01:33:00 PM
The last thing the Tomb Raider series needs is a face lift.
Be greatful that we're even getting an Xbox 360 version of the game.
If the gameplay is fun, then look forward to seeing a sequal that's developed from ground up as a next gen title.
This post has been edited by miggidy: Feb 9 2006, 09:34 PM
Post by: KAGE360 on February 09, 2006, 02:13:00 PM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Feb 9 2006, 03:06 PM)
I guess I'm just confused as to what makes you think the 360 version is NOT re-built from the ground up for the 360?
Because the impression I get from these articles is that it IS being re-built specifically for the 360.
maybe im the mistaken one but from how i read it, only the character models are really the only thing being redone for the 360. yes they are adding extra layers of coating and paint and it looks damn pretty. however IMO there is a difference between a game that is built from the ground up for the 360 or a next gen system, and a game using a last gen engine improving specific aspects of a games visual or technical features. the game running at 30fps, also should further prove this idea. with this level of visual detail, the game should be able to run at 60fps no problem if the game was built better to run on multi-core architecture. i know that 30fps is fine, i have no problem with that, but its still a fact that should support my theory.
i dont know if its because its a last gen port or because the developers still need a lot more time to come to grips with the systems power but all im trying to say is that given the power of these next gen consoles i think that they are capable of doing much more then what we see in TRL. not saying im not impressed or not happy, just saying that as good as it is it could always get much better.
QUOTE(miggidy @ Feb 9 2006, 03:40 PM)
Kage I hear what you're saying bro but be happy that Crystal Dynamics is focusing on the gameplay here.
The last thing the Tomb Raider series needs is a face lift.
Be greatful that we're even getting an Xbox 360 version of the game.
If the gameplay is fun, then look forward to seeing a sequal that's developed from ground up as a next gen title.
im right there with you, im one of the biggest TR fans around and can not wait for this one to come out. im happy with everything that crystal dynamics is doing with the series and its good to see lora back in a positive spot light, all im saying is that i cant wait to see what can be done with the game being developed only on next gen hardware with all that power in mind.
Post by: LowProfileWurm on February 09, 2006, 02:31:00 PM
Oh well, I can wait 2 months. I'm still getting down and dirty with MBU. Plus Burnout will be here in a month. Mmmm...
MBU for another month then Burnout on 3/7 then TR2 in April... then GoW sometime over the summer. I'm loving this.
Post by: KAGE360 on February 09, 2006, 02:40:00 PM
QUOTE(LowProfileWurm @ Feb 9 2006, 04:38 PM)
I guess this is similar to the Burnout Revenge 360 coming out. Car models are being redone, but everything else is pretty standard issue. The environments aren't being rebuilt (are they?), just getting some cooler lighting techniques? Now that you two are confused, so am I!
Oh well, I can wait 2 months. I'm still getting down and dirty with MBU. Plus Burnout will be here in a month. Mmmm...
MBU for another month then Burnout on 3/7 then TR2 in April... then GoW sometime over the summer. I'm loving this.
MBU?
as for burnout 360, i think its one of the best looking games coming out. IMHO it looks better then PGR3 even though it doesnt have real cars. but yeah, i thought that only the characters were given the face-lift and the environments were given the extra coat of paint. either way i cant wait for the game to come out already, everything i have seen looks damn impressive from a gameplay purspective.
Post by: LowProfileWurm on February 09, 2006, 02:50:00 PM
QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Feb 9 2006, 04:47 PM)
MBU?
Marble Blast Ultra
The only thing with TR:L that I'm worried about is the control scheme. Now that they are abandoning the grid based gameplay, I hope the controls are spot on. Obviously there's no way to tell this without playing the game, but if it's even close to the fluid perfection that MBU's control is, I'll be happy.
Post by: Deftech on February 09, 2006, 04:34:00 PM
bow down to lara, kiss her feet, let her boobs tap your head from above while doing so, and buy the game, love it, need it, want it, play it!
it looks awesome, moving on......
