Post by: Deftech on September 30, 2005, 11:28:00 AM
I bolded/colored the good shit.
http://xbox360.ign.c...4/654965p1.html
Itagaki Speaks
The lead ninja speaks about X360 pricing, hard disks, wide screen support and LCD hate.
QUOTE
September 30, 2005 - With its November issue, Famitsu Xbox has officially changed its name to Famitsu Xbox 360. While the cover has a different logo, the magazine remains unchanged inside, right down to the monthly Team Ninja Freaks column, which features a lengthy, always-illuminating chat with Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden developer Team Ninja. This month's interview session with lead ninja Tomonobu Itagaki took place the day before the Tokyo Game Show.
Itagaki is first asked to comment on the Xbox 360's Japanese price, which, with tax, just manages to squeeze in under the 400 dollar mark. Itagaki states that he wishes the price were a little lower, but this is his stance as a game maker and not a gamer. For the gamers, who play games as a hobby, any price would be okay if the system's capabilities and software lineup are good. Given a lineup that appeals to gamers, the overseas price of the system and the price of past systems don't matter.
On the topic of system specs, Itagaki states that, because he wants gamers to play in a high definition environment, he was particularly impressed that MS decided to include high definition cables with the system (the Japanese version includes a single cable that outputs both to composite and D-cable). However, he does admit that the number of owners of high definition televisions is low. He seems to be basing this comment on the survey postcard that Team Ninja includes with its games, where purchasers are asked to describe their play environment.
With the inclusion of HD cables as standard, Itagaki hopes that people will end up making the move to HDTV. He suggests standard CRT over other types, devoting a lengthy rant to his displeasure with LCD televisions. Itagaki states that Team Ninja has "flagship class" LCD televisions throughout its offices, and he's not impressed with any of them. The problem, he states, isn't so much with response time, but with inaccurate color. Combine that with the high prices, and he comes to the conclusion: "buying a CRT is, as a gamer, a wise choice."
Itagaki is also sure to give some talk to sound, offering the hope that players will invest in a 5.1 system. Dead or Alive 4 is fully 5.1 compliant, and Team Ninja has even mixed separate surround and stereo tracks for some parts, including the ending movie. Itagaki was a bit surprised when the interviewer revealed that surround sound systems are down to about 200 bucks.
On the note of high definition televisions, Famitsu Xbox 360 poses a question that we've all been wondering: what happens when you play DOA4 on a standard 4x3 television rather than a wide screen 16x9 screen? Itagaki feels that black borders are horrible and not good looking, which is why current generation Xbox games support both 4x3 and 16x9. "I could not take pride in using black areas on both sides of a wide television," he states, "and I have no desire to have my fans play something in which I do no take pride." While he'd like people to purchase a wide-screen television, he realizes that this is not an option everyone, and so DOA4 is being made to display in full screen on a standard 4x3 television. In other words, he jokes, the game is fully SD compliant (the joke is that current generation Xbox games were listed as being fully HD compliant).
The interview turns to a discussion of the Xbox 360 hard disk. Responding to the question of what kind of effect the lack of a standard hard drive in America and Europe will have on his games, Itagakis states that he's known for quite some time that MS was looking into releasing a version of the system without the hard disk. "Without a hard disk," he explains, "it's difficult to do things like the Ninja Gaiden Hurricane Pack. There are also problems with caching." He suggests that smooth startup sequences for games would be difficult. Also regrettable, he states, is that, minus a hard disk, he won't be able to manage sound in the way Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball does now, where music is copied over from the game disk.
However, those who plan on buying the fully equipped hard disk needn't worry, as Itagaki adds "The Xbox 360 I buy will have a hard disk equipped. I believe 80% will buy the hard disk model. And so, take solace that we will make games that fully utilize the hard disk, just as we have until now." Those without the hard disk are being taken care of, though, with Itagaki planning on tuning the game for the core system as well.
In closing, Itagaki asks that users make a couple of additional purchases for their Xbox 360. First up is a USB keyboard. DOA4 allows for keyboard chat. The game uses a lobby system that Itagaki refers to as "House," where players can create their own avatars, which Itagaki refers to as a "Doll." Itagaki also suggests purchasing a joystick. Team Ninja is overseeing the development of an official joystick with peripheral maker Hori, just as it did for the DOA3 stick.
Itagaki is first asked to comment on the Xbox 360's Japanese price, which, with tax, just manages to squeeze in under the 400 dollar mark. Itagaki states that he wishes the price were a little lower, but this is his stance as a game maker and not a gamer. For the gamers, who play games as a hobby, any price would be okay if the system's capabilities and software lineup are good. Given a lineup that appeals to gamers, the overseas price of the system and the price of past systems don't matter.
On the topic of system specs, Itagaki states that, because he wants gamers to play in a high definition environment, he was particularly impressed that MS decided to include high definition cables with the system (the Japanese version includes a single cable that outputs both to composite and D-cable). However, he does admit that the number of owners of high definition televisions is low. He seems to be basing this comment on the survey postcard that Team Ninja includes with its games, where purchasers are asked to describe their play environment.
With the inclusion of HD cables as standard, Itagaki hopes that people will end up making the move to HDTV. He suggests standard CRT over other types, devoting a lengthy rant to his displeasure with LCD televisions. Itagaki states that Team Ninja has "flagship class" LCD televisions throughout its offices, and he's not impressed with any of them. The problem, he states, isn't so much with response time, but with inaccurate color. Combine that with the high prices, and he comes to the conclusion: "buying a CRT is, as a gamer, a wise choice."
Itagaki is also sure to give some talk to sound, offering the hope that players will invest in a 5.1 system. Dead or Alive 4 is fully 5.1 compliant, and Team Ninja has even mixed separate surround and stereo tracks for some parts, including the ending movie. Itagaki was a bit surprised when the interviewer revealed that surround sound systems are down to about 200 bucks.
On the note of high definition televisions, Famitsu Xbox 360 poses a question that we've all been wondering: what happens when you play DOA4 on a standard 4x3 television rather than a wide screen 16x9 screen? Itagaki feels that black borders are horrible and not good looking, which is why current generation Xbox games support both 4x3 and 16x9. "I could not take pride in using black areas on both sides of a wide television," he states, "and I have no desire to have my fans play something in which I do no take pride." While he'd like people to purchase a wide-screen television, he realizes that this is not an option everyone, and so DOA4 is being made to display in full screen on a standard 4x3 television. In other words, he jokes, the game is fully SD compliant (the joke is that current generation Xbox games were listed as being fully HD compliant).
The interview turns to a discussion of the Xbox 360 hard disk. Responding to the question of what kind of effect the lack of a standard hard drive in America and Europe will have on his games, Itagakis states that he's known for quite some time that MS was looking into releasing a version of the system without the hard disk. "Without a hard disk," he explains, "it's difficult to do things like the Ninja Gaiden Hurricane Pack. There are also problems with caching." He suggests that smooth startup sequences for games would be difficult. Also regrettable, he states, is that, minus a hard disk, he won't be able to manage sound in the way Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball does now, where music is copied over from the game disk.
However, those who plan on buying the fully equipped hard disk needn't worry, as Itagaki adds "The Xbox 360 I buy will have a hard disk equipped. I believe 80% will buy the hard disk model. And so, take solace that we will make games that fully utilize the hard disk, just as we have until now." Those without the hard disk are being taken care of, though, with Itagaki planning on tuning the game for the core system as well.
In closing, Itagaki asks that users make a couple of additional purchases for their Xbox 360. First up is a USB keyboard. DOA4 allows for keyboard chat. The game uses a lobby system that Itagaki refers to as "House," where players can create their own avatars, which Itagaki refers to as a "Doll." Itagaki also suggests purchasing a joystick. Team Ninja is overseeing the development of an official joystick with peripheral maker Hori, just as it did for the DOA3 stick.
Post by: wasting on September 30, 2005, 11:38:00 AM
Post by: Deftech on September 30, 2005, 11:43:00 AM
Im sure it'll be expensive for many years so its not a priority, but still curious.
if it has a Cell chip in it, I wont buy one, I'll stick with old ass DLP
Post by: EverestX on September 30, 2005, 11:46:00 AM
Post by: Deftech on September 30, 2005, 11:56:00 AM
QUOTE(EverestX @ Sep 30 2005, 01:57 PM)
Sed? What's that? All I know is he is right. Nothing beats a crt, it's the hands down champ of the display ring.
http://www.engadget.com/entry/5732841184005838/
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000150026155/
http://www.computerworld.com.sg/ShowPage.a...id=3&issueid=45
http://discussions.hardwarecentral.com/sho...ad.php?t=167015
http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Entertainment...y/News/C3Q6A7J8
hey, he asked :P
Post by: LowProfileWurm on September 30, 2005, 12:23:00 PM
1080p HD
1ms Response
8600:1 Contrast
1/3 Power Consumption
That's all the best parts of current tech crammed into one. Now, I can't wait to see what cons they find with it. Will it buzz, fade, fart, weigh a ton... cost $100K. I'll pick one up in 2 or 3 years when 1080p is actually standardized and I'm making $100K a year.
Post by: hugoboss1 on September 30, 2005, 12:31:00 PM
QUOTE(Deftech @ Sep 30 2005, 02:00 PM)
http://www.engadget.com/entry/5732841184005838/
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000150026155/
http://www.computerworld.com.sg/ShowPage.a...id=3&issueid=45
http://discussions.hardwarecentral.com/sho...ad.php?t=167015
http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Entertainment...y/News/C3Q6A7J8
hey, he asked :P
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000150026155/
http://www.computerworld.com.sg/ShowPage.a...id=3&issueid=45
http://discussions.hardwarecentral.com/sho...ad.php?t=167015
http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Entertainment...y/News/C3Q6A7J8
hey, he asked :P
Dam i was getting all excited and we wont get it till 2007 correct me if im wrong..
now i dont know what to do buy a hdtv set now or wait...because if i drop $2500$
and something else comes out for the same or less with better quality Ill be pissed.
Post by: hugoboss1 on September 30, 2005, 12:35:00 PM
QUOTE(LowProfileWurm @ Sep 30 2005, 02:34 PM)
Flirking Schnit!
1080p HD
1ms Response
8600:1 Contrast
1/3 Power Consumption
That's all the best parts of current tech crammed into one. Now, I can't wait to see what cons they find with it. Will it buzz, fade, fart, weigh a ton... cost $100K. I'll pick one up in 2 or 3 years when 1080p is actually standardized and I'm making $100K a year. :P
1080p HD
1ms Response
8600:1 Contrast
1/3 Power Consumption
That's all the best parts of current tech crammed into one. Now, I can't wait to see what cons they find with it. Will it buzz, fade, fart, weigh a ton... cost $100K. I'll pick one up in 2 or 3 years when 1080p is actually standardized and I'm making $100K a year. :P
That fugger better cost no more than 3k...
Post by: LowProfileWurm on September 30, 2005, 12:39:00 PM
QUOTE(hugoboss1 @ Sep 30 2005, 03:39 PM)
That fugger better cost no more than 3k...
42" plasmas were 15K when they first launched. What makes you think Toshiba won't pull the same stunt? They'll come down to 3K bye 2008.Post by: hugoboss1 on September 30, 2005, 12:37:00 PM
the x360 i was expecting deals and hdtv's that advertise for looking good with 360 games...
I expect that to happen soon with launch around the corner...maybe they want you to buy a 360 first and then push the hd-tv thing with samsung.
Post by: LowProfileWurm on September 30, 2005, 12:48:00 PM
Post by: Heet on September 30, 2005, 02:08:00 PM
Post by: Deftech on September 30, 2005, 02:51:00 PM
QUOTE(Heet @ Sep 30 2005, 04:19 PM)
Ive got both a LCD 52" and a 30" CRT and the CRT kills the lcd. Also, the LCD was 2,000, while the crt was 359$ from www.outlet.philips.com No contest. I know what I'll be playing my 360 on. :beer:
damn skippy
people fall for the lcd stuff so easily. If they want a better pic, they can get a crt for a lot cheaper. And no offense intended to LCD owners, If thats what your eyes like and you want/wanted it, great. always recommend going with your gut, regardless of what tech it is. I personally cant stand anything LCD.
If I still used tv sets for gaming, it would be CRT. Although a good DLP set wou;d give me tingles. But seeing as Im a projector man now, DLP all the way, LCD projectors are horrid looking in comparison.
if you want to buy me a $20,000.00 300lb crt projector, feel free :beer:
I dont even think they manufacture them anymore. Twisted has a behemoth of a crt projector..only 200 lbs :P I wouldnt want to sit under one of those.
Post by: brooksie48 on September 30, 2005, 03:33:00 PM
Post by: spIdeZ on September 30, 2005, 04:23:00 PM
I got a Samsung 930b and I can't see any ghosting or any other artifacts. Plus it's much easier on the eyes, much clearer, less glare, smaller, and uses less power than CRTs. 
Post by: whiteblur67 on September 30, 2005, 05:01:00 PM
QUOTE
I believe 80% will buy the hard disk model.
dammit M$ why are you being dumb
you still have time to vanish the core pack
i have a 4:3 crt normal tv too
its a sony
Post by: whiteblur67 on September 30, 2005, 05:09:00 PM
This post has been edited by whiteblur67: Oct 1 2005, 12:11 AM
Post by: miggidy on October 01, 2005, 11:01:00 PM
http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/pr...=LNR329DX%2fXAA
I've made all kinds of comparisons already and this is the best HDTV I've seen.
Any of the newer Samsung LCD's will do the trick, no matter what the size is.
I love DLP's but I hate the fact that they're still a projection television in the long run. You still have to replace the tube/bulb and you have to look at the screen at the right hight.
And forget Plasmas....
SED's? Ok I'll look into those when I'm a rich :) That's right after I buy a Ferrari :lol:
CRT's are great if you don't mind 480p and 1080i only.
Samsung's line of HDTV widescreen CRT's look great.
But I don't like the fact that they up convert 720p to 1080i.
I'm telling you, as bad as LCD's are,
Samsung's new (and M$'s official Xbox 360 tv's) LCD's are the ish....
I know which HDTV set I'm going to buy this November :luv:
This post has been edited by miggidy: Oct 2 2005, 06:07 AM
Post by: hugoboss1 on October 01, 2005, 11:41:00 PM
QUOTE(miggidy @ Oct 2 2005, 01:05 AM)
Sorry Itagaki but I fell in love with this Samsung LCD:
http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/pr...=LNR329DX%2fXAA
I've made all kinds of comparisons already and this is the best HDTV I've seen.
Any of the newer Samsung LCD's will do the trick, no matter what the size is.
I love DLP's but I hate the fact that they're still a projection television in the long run. You still have to replace the tube/bulb and you have to look at the screen at the right hight.
And forget Plasmas....
SED's? Ok I'll look into those when I'm a rich :) That's right after I buy a Ferrari :lol:
CRT's are great if you don't mind 480p and 1080i only.
Samsung's line of HDTV widescreen CRT's look great.
But I don't like the fact that they up convert 720p to 1080i.
I'm telling you, as bad as LCD's are,
which model are you getting???
Samsung's new (and M$'s official Xbox 360 tv's) LCD's are the ish....
I know which HDTV set I'm going to buy this November :luv:
http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/pr...=LNR329DX%2fXAA
I've made all kinds of comparisons already and this is the best HDTV I've seen.
Any of the newer Samsung LCD's will do the trick, no matter what the size is.
I love DLP's but I hate the fact that they're still a projection television in the long run. You still have to replace the tube/bulb and you have to look at the screen at the right hight.
And forget Plasmas....
SED's? Ok I'll look into those when I'm a rich :) That's right after I buy a Ferrari :lol:
CRT's are great if you don't mind 480p and 1080i only.
Samsung's line of HDTV widescreen CRT's look great.
But I don't like the fact that they up convert 720p to 1080i.
I'm telling you, as bad as LCD's are,
which model are you getting???
Samsung's new (and M$'s official Xbox 360 tv's) LCD's are the ish....
I know which HDTV set I'm going to buy this November :luv:
Post by: Deftech on October 01, 2005, 11:55:00 PM
that should not be a factor, you wont own a set that long.
but get what your heart and eyes like I always say
QUOTE
DLP manufacturers list the backlight bulb hours at around 80,000 hours, with most reaching over 90,000. What's more, this bulb can be replaced for as little as $200 in some cases, and that price will drop steadily over time.
at the 12 month mark my projector didnt even have 800 (eight hundred hours), and I do a lot of shit on it. That bulb will last me 4 to 5 years, atleast 3. and by that time the bulb for it will be $100 - 150.00 instead of the $300 it is now.
Even at 12 hours a day, 7 days a week...all year long, you'll only reach 4,300 some hours. Thats TWELVE hours a day, every day of the year. Thats 18 Years of use out of a DLP tv
I just dont want people getting the wrong idea about a DLP tv, the bulb needing replacement isn't an issue. I dont even see it being an issue with a DLP projector at 4,000 hours.
shit, even if you left the set on 24 hours a day, it would still take 9 years for it to go.
Post by: chilin_dude on October 02, 2005, 02:57:00 AM
QUOTE(spIdeZ @ Oct 1 2005, 12:34 AM)
I don't care what anyone says, LCDs rock I got a Samsung 930b and I can't see any ghosting or any other artifacts. Plus it's much easier on the eyes, much clearer, less glare, smaller, and uses less power than CRTs.
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Ballz2TheWallz on October 02, 2005, 12:57:00 PM
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best i have is a 27inch 4:3 sony wega from 2001....tv was damn expensive to i could get a 32inch HD samsung today for what we payed
we had an addition to our house and there supposed to buy a tv for that....but they only want to spend $350 max
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: SatanX2112 on October 02, 2005, 05:06:00 PM
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Really? I play Tony Hawk and Amped 2 just fine and in HD, it upscales.
LCD is improving, but it is still has not reached the same PQ as a GOOD CRT set.
As far as Samsung DLP sets, do a little research on sound lag and Xbox lag.
Kept me from buying one....
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: SatanX2112 on October 02, 2005, 05:08:00 PM
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I got a Samsung 930b and I can't see any ghosting or any other artifacts. Plus it's much easier on the eyes, much clearer, less glare, smaller, and uses less power than CRTs. Post by: Ballz2TheWallz on October 02, 2005, 12:57:00 PM
best i have is a 27inch 4:3 sony wega from 2001....tv was damn expensive to i could get a 32inch HD samsung today for what we payedwe had an addition to our house and there supposed to buy a tv for that....but they only want to spend $350 max
Post by: SatanX2112 on October 02, 2005, 05:06:00 PM
QUOTE(miggidy @ Oct 2 2005, 02:05 AM)
CRT's are great if you don't mind 480p and 1080i only.
Really? I play Tony Hawk and Amped 2 just fine and in HD, it upscales.
LCD is improving, but it is still has not reached the same PQ as a GOOD CRT set.
As far as Samsung DLP sets, do a little research on sound lag and Xbox lag.
Kept me from buying one....
Post by: SatanX2112 on October 02, 2005, 05:08:00 PM
QUOTE(Deftech @ Oct 2 2005, 03:06 AM)
You do know that the average bulb in a DLP tv lasts upwards of 80,000 (eighty thousand) hours right? Im only mentioning this because thats the only negative you gave the DLP tv -
Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Heet on October 02, 2005, 05:14:00 PM
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ballztothewallz, i got my 30" for 359$ shipped. Go to www.outlet.philips.com. The tv ROCKS!
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Deftech on October 02, 2005, 05:49:00 PM
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hmmm
8,000 is what the manufacturers mention, with most exceeding 10k from the little searching I just did.
regardless if its 80 or 8, its still not an issue when buying a tv set or projector. If you cant afford a fuggin $200.00 bulb every 5 to 7 years, then how the hell can you afford a 400.00 console and 60.00 games?
A dlp tv would last me to 6 to 8 years at 8,000 hours, and Id get a new one 2 to 3 years after I purchased it anyways so no bulb problem here. Surely some of you dont have the same tv you got 8 years ago. My bad, *some* of you were only 8 years old 8 years ago. I keep forgetting the ages around here :(
Shit in the last 11 years(when I got into home theatre hardcore), Ive gone thru 4 tv's(2 of them HD) and a projector.
Noone I know who likes games and movies holds onto a tv for more than 4 to 5 years. With progression comes time to buy new toys :beer:
I need to check the site that said it was 80,000 hours, maybe I read it wrong?
Nope, I didnt read it wrong..
Im sure the dlp tv's have a low lamp mode like projectors do. that alone would prolong the life of the bulb by a significant amount, and I can guarantee that Most owners do not use it because it darkens the picture, and most people live a bright picture.
Ive calibrated many a tv for people and they hate how dark it is afterwards. I guess the dont like lifelike pictures and instead of watching it how the directors intended, theyd rather crank up the contrast and black level. Makes me sick :grr:
This post has been edited by Deftech: Oct 3 2005, 12:53 AM
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Deftech on October 02, 2005, 05:56:00 PM
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Heet, what kind of warranty do you get with the factory renewed ones at that site? doesnt shipping make the deal not worth while?
that 400.00 model on that site (30PW8402/37B) is the one at target and walmart that I saw when getting my cousins Samsung.
I want a hdtv resembling the phillips in every room of the house, including the bathroom!
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Carlo210 on October 02, 2005, 05:49:00 PM
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j/k
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: SatanX2112 on October 02, 2005, 06:08:00 PM
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I need to check the site that said it was 80,000 hours, maybe I read it wrong?
Nope, I didnt read it wrong..
I'm not trying to fight or bad mouth DLP, but seriously, do a search at AVSforum.com, no one gets anywhere near that.
http://www.dlptvreview.com/dlptv/3estimated.html
http://www.primediahometech.com/dlpseeit/705common/
How long will it last?
This is really a two-part question. The DLP parts should last as long as any other TV. The lamp on the other hand, doesn't live nearly as long. Each DLP projector uses a lamp (a fancy light bulb) to create the light that eventually ends up on a screen as a picture. These last from between 1500 and 8000 hours. Bulb life is going up, and costs are going down. Currently a replacement bulb costs $200-400 or so.
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Deftech on October 02, 2005, 06:19:00 PM
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I dont have any tv's, well the 25" in my room, but nothing you'd want.
and Satan, for there to be a huge difference between 1500 and 8000 hours, somethings amiss.
the low end either reflects someone abusing it or the bulb was shit to begin with, or both. No way in hell should there be such a difference in average bulb life.
why am I talking about this? I'll never buy a tv again, not for main viewing(movies and games) anyways. I wanna get the phillips or samsung crt's that are cheap, the picture on them are fantastic. And for $300.00? Maybe thats what Carlo is talking about :P
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Carlo210 on October 02, 2005, 06:22:00 PM
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Post by: Heet on October 02, 2005, 05:14:00 PM
Post by: Deftech on October 02, 2005, 05:49:00 PM
QUOTE(SatanX2112 @ Oct 2 2005, 07:19 PM)
I've seen this floating around, wee bit off. 8000 hours tops (thats with minimal off/on).
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=576698
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=576698
hmmm
8,000 is what the manufacturers mention, with most exceeding 10k from the little searching I just did.
regardless if its 80 or 8, its still not an issue when buying a tv set or projector. If you cant afford a fuggin $200.00 bulb every 5 to 7 years, then how the hell can you afford a 400.00 console and 60.00 games?
A dlp tv would last me to 6 to 8 years at 8,000 hours, and Id get a new one 2 to 3 years after I purchased it anyways so no bulb problem here. Surely some of you dont have the same tv you got 8 years ago. My bad, *some* of you were only 8 years old 8 years ago. I keep forgetting the ages around here :(
Shit in the last 11 years(when I got into home theatre hardcore), Ive gone thru 4 tv's(2 of them HD) and a projector.
Noone I know who likes games and movies holds onto a tv for more than 4 to 5 years. With progression comes time to buy new toys :beer:
I need to check the site that said it was 80,000 hours, maybe I read it wrong?
Nope, I didnt read it wrong..
QUOTE
LIFESPAN
DLP manufacturers list the backlight bulb hours at around 80,000 hours. What's more, this bulb can be replaced for as little as $200 in some cases. Certain DLP TV displays require a technician to change their bulbs, and this will cost you more than the lamp itself. In other cases, though, the DLP is configured in a way that makes it easy for a layperson to replace burned-out bulbs. It all depends on the make and model of your DLP.
And, since DLP is a mirror and light technology, once the bulb is replaced, the DLP should perform as well as it did when it was brand new.
Plasma, by contrast, uses a small electric pulse for each pixel to excite the rare natural gases argon, neon, and xenon (a k a "phosphors") to produce the color information and light. As electrons excite the phosphors, oxygen atoms dissipate. These rare gases actually have a life and fade over time. Manufacturers of plasma have estimated the life of these phosphors to be about 60,000 hours. The life of the plasma display itself is usually determined by half-life of the phosphors. So at 30,000 hours the phosphors will be at their half-life, and the viewer will be seeing an image that has half the brightness capability that it did when originally purchased. This should be a good point at which to consider its life over. The gases in plasma TVs cannot be replaced. There is no phenomenon of "pumping" new gases into a plasma display.
Advantage: DLP
DLP manufacturers list the backlight bulb hours at around 80,000 hours. What's more, this bulb can be replaced for as little as $200 in some cases. Certain DLP TV displays require a technician to change their bulbs, and this will cost you more than the lamp itself. In other cases, though, the DLP is configured in a way that makes it easy for a layperson to replace burned-out bulbs. It all depends on the make and model of your DLP.
And, since DLP is a mirror and light technology, once the bulb is replaced, the DLP should perform as well as it did when it was brand new.
Plasma, by contrast, uses a small electric pulse for each pixel to excite the rare natural gases argon, neon, and xenon (a k a "phosphors") to produce the color information and light. As electrons excite the phosphors, oxygen atoms dissipate. These rare gases actually have a life and fade over time. Manufacturers of plasma have estimated the life of these phosphors to be about 60,000 hours. The life of the plasma display itself is usually determined by half-life of the phosphors. So at 30,000 hours the phosphors will be at their half-life, and the viewer will be seeing an image that has half the brightness capability that it did when originally purchased. This should be a good point at which to consider its life over. The gases in plasma TVs cannot be replaced. There is no phenomenon of "pumping" new gases into a plasma display.
Advantage: DLP
Im sure the dlp tv's have a low lamp mode like projectors do. that alone would prolong the life of the bulb by a significant amount, and I can guarantee that Most owners do not use it because it darkens the picture, and most people live a bright picture.
Ive calibrated many a tv for people and they hate how dark it is afterwards. I guess the dont like lifelike pictures and instead of watching it how the directors intended, theyd rather crank up the contrast and black level. Makes me sick :grr:
This post has been edited by Deftech: Oct 3 2005, 12:53 AM
Post by: Deftech on October 02, 2005, 05:56:00 PM
QUOTE(Heet @ Oct 2 2005, 07:25 PM)
ballztothewallz, i got my 30" for 359$ shipped. Go to www.outlet.philips.com. The tv ROCKS!
Heet, what kind of warranty do you get with the factory renewed ones at that site? doesnt shipping make the deal not worth while?
that 400.00 model on that site (30PW8402/37B) is the one at target and walmart that I saw when getting my cousins Samsung.
I want a hdtv resembling the phillips in every room of the house, including the bathroom!
Post by: Carlo210 on October 02, 2005, 05:49:00 PM
j/k
Post by: SatanX2112 on October 02, 2005, 06:08:00 PM
QUOTE(Deftech @ Oct 2 2005, 08:53 PM)
I need to check the site that said it was 80,000 hours, maybe I read it wrong?
Nope, I didnt read it wrong..
I'm not trying to fight or bad mouth DLP, but seriously, do a search at AVSforum.com, no one gets anywhere near that.
http://www.dlptvreview.com/dlptv/3estimated.html
http://www.primediahometech.com/dlpseeit/705common/
How long will it last?
This is really a two-part question. The DLP parts should last as long as any other TV. The lamp on the other hand, doesn't live nearly as long. Each DLP projector uses a lamp (a fancy light bulb) to create the light that eventually ends up on a screen as a picture. These last from between 1500 and 8000 hours. Bulb life is going up, and costs are going down. Currently a replacement bulb costs $200-400 or so.
Post by: Deftech on October 02, 2005, 06:19:00 PM
QUOTE(Carlo210 @ Oct 2 2005, 08:00 PM)
Hey Deftech, is there any possibility you could be hospitable and pass down one of your tv's down to me? :D
j/k :popcorn:
j/k :popcorn:
I dont have any tv's, well the 25" in my room, but nothing you'd want.
and Satan, for there to be a huge difference between 1500 and 8000 hours, somethings amiss.
the low end either reflects someone abusing it or the bulb was shit to begin with, or both. No way in hell should there be such a difference in average bulb life.
why am I talking about this? I'll never buy a tv again, not for main viewing(movies and games) anyways. I wanna get the phillips or samsung crt's that are cheap, the picture on them are fantastic. And for $300.00? Maybe thats what Carlo is talking about :P
Post by: Carlo210 on October 02, 2005, 06:22:00 PM
QUOTE(Deftech @ Oct 3 2005, 02:23 AM)
I wanna get the phillips or samsung crt's that are cheap, the picture on them are fantastic. And for $300.00? Maybe thats what Carlo is talking about
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: krazyshane on October 02, 2005, 08:20:00 PM
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Post by: krazyshane on October 02, 2005, 08:20:00 PM
QUOTE(Heet @ Sep 30 2005, 10:19 PM)
Ive got both a LCD 52" and a 30" CRT and the CRT kills the lcd. Also, the LCD was 2,000, while the crt was 359$ from www.outlet.philips.com No contest. I know what I'll be playing my 360 on.
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Heet on October 02, 2005, 08:25:00 PM
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Oh you mean the one i ordered off the site and is in my bedroom? I read your snide comments from the last thread, didnt feel like the response was needed. Anyways, I watch hdtv, which is hooked up to component, at 1080i, and play xbox at 480p and 1080i. I never said it was the best hdtv sold, and i never said you had to buy it. I was merely mentioning it as a viable option for someone that doesnt have 2000$ for a tv.
FUCK OFF.
Also, the tv wasnt 399$ dipshit. It was 359$. That site has different tv's up every week. If you werent a moron youd know that thats how refurb sites work.
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Deftech on October 02, 2005, 08:50:00 PM
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Heet, how much was shipping with those refurbished sets they sell?
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Heet on October 02, 2005, 08:58:00 PM
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Well for most shipping is included (i think it says on the site which are/arent). Mine was 359$ shipped to my front door. Best deal ive ever seen. At the time the tv retailed for 1200$.
If you read shayne, i said that this picture (you know, the shitty refurb) is better than my 52" LCD. The lcd is a panasonic. Is that a shitty brand too?
This is it. http://www.samsclub....A956272&fid=P24
Like i said, the 30" shitty philips is better than the 52" lcd. Hands down.
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: krazyshane on October 02, 2005, 09:07:00 PM
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Post by: Heet on October 02, 2005, 08:25:00 PM
FUCK OFF.
Also, the tv wasnt 399$ dipshit. It was 359$. That site has different tv's up every week. If you werent a moron youd know that thats how refurb sites work.
Post by: Deftech on October 02, 2005, 08:50:00 PM
Post by: Heet on October 02, 2005, 08:58:00 PM
If you read shayne, i said that this picture (you know, the shitty refurb) is better than my 52" LCD. The lcd is a panasonic. Is that a shitty brand too?
This is it. http://www.samsclub....A956272&fid=P24
Like i said, the 30" shitty philips is better than the 52" lcd. Hands down.
Post by: krazyshane on October 02, 2005, 09:07:00 PM
QUOTE(Heet @ Oct 3 2005, 04:36 AM)
Oh you mean the one i ordered off the site and is in my bedroom? I read your snide comments from the last thread, didnt feel like the response was needed. Anyways, I watch hdtv, which is hooked up to component, at 1080i, and play xbox at 480p and 1080i. I never said it was the best hdtv sold, and i never said you had to buy it. I was merely mentioning it as a viable option for someone that doesnt have 2000$ for a tv.
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Deftech on October 02, 2005, 09:15:00 PM
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Thus making the component the only connection to receive the 1080i signal.
Dont tell me all their sets have HDMI, I highly doubt they'd do that.
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Ballz2TheWallz on October 02, 2005, 09:16:00 PM
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Post by: Deftech on October 02, 2005, 09:15:00 PM
Thus making the component the only connection to receive the 1080i signal.
Dont tell me all their sets have HDMI, I highly doubt they'd do that.
Post by: Ballz2TheWallz on October 02, 2005, 09:16:00 PM
QUOTE(Heet @ Oct 3 2005, 01:25 AM)
ballztothewallz, i got my 30" for 359$ shipped. Go to www.outlet.philips.com. The tv ROCKS!
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Heet on October 02, 2005, 09:46:00 PM
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Exactly deftech. Thats why im saying he is a dumbass. You just read it, he said I cant play 360 games at 1080i on the tv. Dude quit making posts if you dont know what your posting about. Are you saying that HDMI and DVI are the standard now LOL! Btw, I play mx vs atv unleashed at 1080i all the time on xbox. The xbox360 games are 720p, the tv will not display that, the xbox converts it to 1080i, thats what I will see. End of story.
"If the X360 ONLY outputs HD on components, and the Philips TV WILL NOT take HD input on the components, that means that you will not be seeing the xbox 360 in HD"
Just keep posting this stuff. Its fun to read.
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Deftech on October 02, 2005, 09:50:00 PM
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You know whats better?
when they try and dig themselves out of the hole they dug
lets wait and see shall we?
its time
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Heet on October 02, 2005, 10:21:00 PM
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Ya and im not really looking to get into a petty catfight over hdtv, I just cant stand it when people try to correct me in these forums when its not hard to go and get the info and get facts straight, and he's done it twice. Its like saying that ALL xbox games are 480p. Most are but there are also games that support 1080i as well. Just like in the case of the tv i bought. It DOES support 1080i on component. Want the model number or pdf of it? Quit assuming things.
Btw, here is the first post
QUOTE(Heet @ Sep 29 2005, 05:29 AM)
359$ for a philips 30" widescreen shipped to your door. www.outlet.philips.com
I was considering this TV as well...
First of all, the Phillips is $399.
Second of all, they're refurbished.
Third, Phillips is a cheap brand.
Fourth AND MOST IMPORTANT
Those Phillips TVS DO NOT accept HD on the component port. They have one component input and it's 480p only... NO GOOD for the 360.
Shane
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: krazyshane on October 02, 2005, 10:35:00 PM
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Post by: Heet on October 02, 2005, 09:46:00 PM
"If the X360 ONLY outputs HD on components, and the Philips TV WILL NOT take HD input on the components, that means that you will not be seeing the xbox 360 in HD"
Just keep posting this stuff. Its fun to read.
Post by: Deftech on October 02, 2005, 09:50:00 PM
You know whats better?
when they try and dig themselves out of the hole they dug
lets wait and see shall we?
its
time
Post by: Heet on October 02, 2005, 10:21:00 PM
Btw, here is the first post
QUOTE(Heet @ Sep 29 2005, 05:29 AM)
359$ for a philips 30" widescreen shipped to your door. www.outlet.philips.com
I was considering this TV as well...
First of all, the Phillips is $399.
Second of all, they're refurbished.
Third, Phillips is a cheap brand.
Fourth AND MOST IMPORTANT
Those Phillips TVS DO NOT accept HD on the component port. They have one component input and it's 480p only... NO GOOD for the 360.
Shane
Post by: krazyshane on October 02, 2005, 10:35:00 PM
QUOTE(Deftech @ Oct 3 2005, 06:01 AM)
Oh so he DID think all Phillips had HDMI only.
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Heet on October 02, 2005, 11:00:00 PM
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Heet on October 02, 2005, 11:45:00 PM
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K, cant find the pdf but hope you will take amazon's word for it for now.
http://www.amazon.co...nics&vi=reviews
Now tell me what I cant play the 360 on LOL. Again, i have an lcd too, my whole point of this was just to say that this 359$ tv has a better picture than the 2000$ one and that its what i'll be playing the 360 on. Where did i go wrong?
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: krazyshane on October 02, 2005, 11:59:00 PM
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Post by: Heet on October 02, 2005, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: Heet on October 02, 2005, 11:45:00 PM
http://www.amazon.co...nics&vi=reviews
Now tell me what I cant play the 360 on LOL. Again, i have an lcd too, my whole point of this was just to say that this 359$ tv has a better picture than the 2000$ one and that its what i'll be playing the 360 on. Where did i go wrong?
Post by: krazyshane on October 02, 2005, 11:59:00 PM
QUOTE(Heet @ Oct 3 2005, 07:56 AM)
K, cant find the pdf but hope you will take amazon's word for it for now.
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Heet on October 03, 2005, 12:22:00 AM
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Ok, my angst came from the first post in the other thread that went like
1st of all "what i took as YOUR WRONG!"
2nd of all "what i took as YOUR WRONG!"
3rd of all "what i took as YOUR WRONG!"
Re-reading it though I see that they have completely sold out of the tv that i got which does do 1080i. So you never saw it.
I'm right and your right. Squashed.
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: ikecomp on October 03, 2005, 12:37:00 AM
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Not trying to start anything with u guys but I found some technical specs that lists the components specifically if u are interested HERE
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Heet on October 03, 2005, 12:54:00 AM
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Naw its ok, i think we see i to i now. Thanks for the spec sheet. I did find out some things out about that tv that i didnt know though. Like the reasons why there were so many refurbs for that model. It had a history of PSU and picture problems but it looks like they were either lemons or perfectly fine tv's. So far so good. Here's hoping :beer:
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: miggidy on October 03, 2005, 02:09:00 AM
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Wow, I wasn't aware of that.
Perhaps I will take a look at the Samsung DLP's again.
I guess the only thing really going against it now is the fact that you have to sit at the right hight. From what I recall, it wasn't so much as the angle you're watching from whether it's from the left or right. But the problem I saw with the DLP's is that if lets say you're sitting on the floor and you're looking up at the screen (depending how high the screen is mounted), you'll see the dreaded projection shadow of old.
But don't get me wrong, it's no where near as bad as old school projection TV's. It's just that when I looked at the Samsung LCD's, you could easily view the screen from any angle.
That's important to me because I like to sit on a bean bag while I play video games. And when ever there's a big time sporting event, my friends come over to watch and they usually fill up my living room.
Damn, too many things to consider now that I know a DLP's shelf life is no different than any other TV.
Thanx for the info bro! :beer:
This post has been edited by miggidy: Oct 3 2005, 09:11 AM
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Title: Itagaki Speaks..dislikes Lcd
Post by: Heet on October 03, 2005, 02:43:00 AM
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Get this though. The guy who bought the tv had a gun go out, he had about a month of problems trying to get it fixed/replaced with Mitsubishi, and now he's getting a 1080P!!! Turns out the problems were more than just the gun. Im so pissed
Owell, I keep telling myself that nobody's going to support that
Post by: Heet on October 03, 2005, 12:22:00 AM
1st of all "what i took as YOUR WRONG!"
2nd of all "what i took as YOUR WRONG!"
3rd of all "what i took as YOUR WRONG!"
Re-reading it though I see that they have completely sold out of the tv that i got which does do 1080i. So you never saw it.
I'm right and your right. Squashed.
Post by: ikecomp on October 03, 2005, 12:37:00 AM
Post by: Heet on October 03, 2005, 12:54:00 AM
Post by: miggidy on October 03, 2005, 02:09:00 AM
QUOTE(Deftech @ Oct 2 2005, 08:06 AM)
You do know that the average bulb in a DLP tv lasts upwards of 80,000 (eighty thousand) hours right? Im only mentioning this because thats the only negative you gave the DLP tv :)
that should not be a factor, you wont own a set that long.
but get what your heart and eyes like I always say :beer:
at the 12 month mark my projector didnt even have 800 (eight hundred hours), and I do a lot of shit on it. That bulb will last me 4 to 5 years, atleast 3. and by that time the bulb for it will be $100 - 150.00 instead of the $300 it is now.
Even at 12 hours a day, 7 days a week...all year long, you'll only reach 4,300 some hours. Thats TWELVE hours a day, every day of the year. Thats 18 Years of use out of a DLP tv :lol:
I just dont want people getting the wrong idea about a DLP tv, the bulb needing replacement isn't an issue. I dont even see it being an issue with a DLP projector at 4,000 hours.
shit, even if you left the set on 24 hours a day, it would still take 9 years for it to go.
that should not be a factor, you wont own a set that long.
but get what your heart and eyes like I always say :beer:
at the 12 month mark my projector didnt even have 800 (eight hundred hours), and I do a lot of shit on it. That bulb will last me 4 to 5 years, atleast 3. and by that time the bulb for it will be $100 - 150.00 instead of the $300 it is now.
Even at 12 hours a day, 7 days a week...all year long, you'll only reach 4,300 some hours. Thats TWELVE hours a day, every day of the year. Thats 18 Years of use out of a DLP tv :lol:
I just dont want people getting the wrong idea about a DLP tv, the bulb needing replacement isn't an issue. I dont even see it being an issue with a DLP projector at 4,000 hours.
shit, even if you left the set on 24 hours a day, it would still take 9 years for it to go.
Wow, I wasn't aware of that.
Perhaps I will take a look at the Samsung DLP's again.
I guess the only thing really going against it now is the fact that you have to sit at the right hight. From what I recall, it wasn't so much as the angle you're watching from whether it's from the left or right. But the problem I saw with the DLP's is that if lets say you're sitting on the floor and you're looking up at the screen (depending how high the screen is mounted), you'll see the dreaded projection shadow of old.
But don't get me wrong, it's no where near as bad as old school projection TV's. It's just that when I looked at the Samsung LCD's, you could easily view the screen from any angle.
That's important to me because I like to sit on a bean bag while I play video games. And when ever there's a big time sporting event, my friends come over to watch and they usually fill up my living room.
Damn, too many things to consider now that I know a DLP's shelf life is no different than any other TV.
Thanx for the info bro! :beer:
This post has been edited by miggidy: Oct 3 2005, 09:11 AM
Post by: Heet on October 03, 2005, 02:43:00 AM
Get this though. The guy who bought the tv had a gun go out, he had about a month of problems trying to get it fixed/replaced with Mitsubishi, and now he's getting a 1080P!!! Turns out the problems were more than just the gun. Im so pissed Owell, I keep telling myself that nobody's going to support that