Post by: Xbox-Scene on March 29, 2006, 08:49:00 PM
Backwards Compatibility List Updated-- Posted by XanTium on March 29 22:13 EST
From the Team Xbox GamersScore Blog:
Quote
Hey there, Xbox fans old and new. Today we're updating the back compat list with three of the most requested games and updates to existing back-compat games.
* New games on the list: BLACK ; Star wars Battlefront II ; World Soccer Winning Eleven 9
* Updated games: Darkwatch ; Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas ; Half-Life 2 ; Fable ; Fable: The Lost Chapters ; Forza Motorsport ; Ninja Gaiden ; Ninja Gaiden Black ; SSX 3 ; Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Chaos Theory ; kill.switch ; World Series Baseball 2K3
The new updates are available on Xbox Live and on Xbox.com, with mail-order discs coming about two weeks later. And the team is by no means done - they'll continue to work on the most requested games, so stay tuned for more.
Read More: gamerscoreblog.com | xbox.com
Post by: Textbook on March 29, 2006, 08:27:00 PM
QUOTE
And the team is by no means done - they'll continue to work on the most requested games, so stay tuned for more.
They make it sound like it's an extra or a surprise bonus that they're not done. We don't expect them to be. There are many games that still aren't backwards compatible. I don't know, I just think 3 new games is a pretty weak update.
Post by: Rustmonkey on March 29, 2006, 08:37:00 PM
Post by: only2braincellz on March 29, 2006, 08:39:00 PM
First they ruch the 360 out... then act like its (like said above) an extra bonus that they decided to keep it updated and make it work with all games.
Funny that PS2 never had this problem with PS1 games..
Anyway.. keep up the crappy work MS.. if it wasnt for you, the hackers of america wouldnt have programs and consoles with security holes the size of texas
Post by: OffRoader23 on March 29, 2006, 08:40:00 PM
Post by: foreverporkchop on March 29, 2006, 08:42:00 PM
Post by: j666* on March 29, 2006, 09:52:00 PM
Post by: assmonkey on March 29, 2006, 09:26:00 PM
Post by: indiraider on March 29, 2006, 09:37:00 PM
QUOTE(only2braincellz @ Mar 30 2006, 04:46 AM) 
LOL, this is what makes me hate MS more by the day..
First they ruch the 360 out... then act like its (like said above) an extra bonus that they decided to keep it updated and make it work with all games.
Funny that PS2 never had this problem with PS1 games..
Anyway.. keep up the crappy work MS.. if it wasnt for you, the hackers of america wouldnt have programs and consoles with security holes the size of texas
G-D What a fucking idiot! MS only had trouble with the compatibility because they went from crappy Nvidia to ATI. It is commendable what MS is doing, in fact it is 50 times more than what DRM-Sony would ever do. Let me put it like this: Sony can emulate DIRECTLY from the hardware where as MS need to EMULATE the hardware of the origional Xbox in order to play these games. These guys who are doing the compatibility are real trouppers, who work hard at making these titles availible. And backwards compatibility is a BONUS because you dont remeber the days of pre-playstation, we had to use our old console to play our old games.
Never mind him
Now I does anyone know if this program might be a trogan horse with really a firmware update on it so you wont be able to do the Xecuter hack? Please, I am at work so if sum1 could open the file up in a hex editor and see if it makes any changes to anything other than the dashboard or harddrive.
Post by: Unregistered007 on March 29, 2006, 09:41:00 PM
QUOTE(foreverporkchop @ Mar 30 2006, 03:49 AM)
Umm what about Rallisport 2. I believe that game was requested quite a bit.
don't expect it to see that one for a while. RalliSpot 3 is already in developement.
secondly, I have to agree with the poster there, xbox360 was definitely rushed, I had 2 bad units but the 4thones I have is working pretty smoothly
(ps I sold the 3rd one from MS)One thing that I still hesitate about is the BC, my 360 was working fine till I poped in splinter cell and that just scared me, I am not going to play anymore xbox games on my 360....
QUOTE(indiraider @ Mar 30 2006, 04:44 AM)
G-D What a fucking idiot! MS only had trouble with the compatibility because they went from crappy Nvidia to ATI. It is commendable what MS is doing, in fact it is 50 times more than what DRM-Sony would ever do. Let me put it like this: Sony can emulate DIRECTLY from the hardware where as MS need to EMULATE the hardware of the origional Xbox in order to play these games. These guys who are doing the compatibility are real trouppers, who work hard at making these titles availible. And backwards compatibility is a BONUS because you dont remeber the days of pre-playstation, we had to use our old console to play our old games.
Never mind him
Now I does anyone know if this program might be a trogan horse with really a firmware update on it so you wont be able to do the Xecuter hack? Please, I am at work so if sum1 could open the file up in a hex editor and see if it makes any changes to anything other than the dashboard or harddrive.
you fucking moron PS2 had PS1 in it. there is hardly any emulation there.....
Post by: indiraider on March 29, 2006, 09:44:00 PM
QUOTE(Unregistered007 @ Mar 30 2006, 05:48 AM)
don't expect it to see that one for a while. RalliSpot 3 is already in developement.
secondly, I have to agree with the poster there, xbox360 was definitely rushed, I had 2 bad units but the 4thones I have is working pretty smoothly
(ps I sold the 3rd one from MS)One thing that I still hesitate about is the BC, my 360 was working fine till I poped in splinter cell and that just scared me, I am not going to play anymore xbox games on my 360....
you fucking moron PS2 had PS1 in it. there is hardly any emulation there.....
Thats what I said
Sony: Hardware emulation
MS: Software emulation
Post by: RadATI on March 29, 2006, 09:45:00 PM
QUOTE(indiraider @ Mar 29 2006, 11:44 PM)
G-D What a fucking idiot! MS only had trouble with the compatibility because they went from crappy Nvidia to ATI. It is commendable what MS is doing, in fact it is 50 times more than what DRM-Sony would ever do. Let me put it like this: Sony can emulate DIRECTLY from the hardware where as MS need to EMULATE the hardware of the origional Xbox in order to play these games. These guys who are doing the compatibility are real trouppers, who work hard at making these titles availible. And backwards compatibility is a BONUS because you dont remeber the days of pre-playstation, we had to use our old console to play our old games.
Never mind him
Now I does anyone know if this program might be a trogan horse with really a firmware update on it so you wont be able to do the Xecuter hack? Please, I am at work so if sum1 could open the file up in a hex editor and see if it makes any changes to anything other than the dashboard or harddrive.
Trojans on and Xbox 360??
ROFL!!!!!
I WANT MY XBOX 720!!!!!!
Xbox 720:
CPU: 10.0 Ghz Power PC with 9 cores
GPU: GeForce 24000 Ultra 5 Ghz GPU 10 GB video RAM 256 pixel pipelines
RAM: 20 GB
Disc Drive: Blu-Ray (12 layers), UMD, HD-DVD (20 layers), DVD9, CD, VHS(LMAO)
Xbox Live Premium (You can download HD movies, and FULL GAMES)
HDD: 5000 GB or 5 TeraBytes At 45,000 RPM
Post by: Unregistered007 on March 29, 2006, 09:47:00 PM
bottom line is that I am still not satisfied with the BC and since my xbox died after Splinter Cell, chances are my 360 is only going to eat xbox360 games.
Post by: Diggedy on March 29, 2006, 10:24:00 PM
mmm, Black in 720p... *drools*
Post by: indiraider on March 29, 2006, 09:51:00 PM
QUOTE(RadATI @ Mar 30 2006, 05:52 AM)
Trojans on and Xbox 360??
A trojan is not always a millicious code. It can be hidding a function in the backround (such as the update) while packing it in with another fuction (such as the firmware update with the bc)
Post by: RadATI on March 29, 2006, 09:54:00 PM
Post by: lostboyz on March 29, 2006, 09:54:00 PM
and yea sony had problems with playing ps1 games, if you played enough of them on the earlier versions it would burn out the laser. woopsies
dunno about you guys but i still have a few xboxes, and well i think it plays 100% of my xbox games
Post by: nickman on March 29, 2006, 09:58:00 PM
QUOTE(indiraider @ Mar 30 2006, 05:51 AM)
Thats what I said
Sony: Hardware emulation
MS: Software emulation
DOH!
What he meant is probobly that if you have the harware inside you don't Emulate someting. You RUN it.
Sony: Runs old games on old hardware (No emulation needed)
MS: Emulates old hardware throu sofware emulation.
Post by: indiraider on March 29, 2006, 09:59:00 PM
QUOTE(nickman @ Mar 30 2006, 06:05 AM)
DOH!
What he meant is probobly that if you have the harware inside you don't Emulate someting. You RUN it.
Sony: Runs old games on old hardware (No emulation needed)
MS: Emulates old hardware throu sofware emulation.
Well said, thats what I ment to say
Post by: Questioner on March 29, 2006, 10:35:00 PM
QUOTE(Sanitarium @ Mar 30 2006, 05:39 AM)
3 games? Apparently it takes them 1 month per game. And the games themselves, well they suck. I want PGR 1&2, MechAssault 1&2, Rallisport 1&2. Who gives a shit about Winning Eleven 9?
Um, winning eleven is quite possibly the most successful worldwide sports franchise, if you consider pro evolution which is very much related.
If MS was more in touch with the Japanese gaming community, they could actually challenge sony. One small gesture here perhaps.
Post by: pepe2004 on March 29, 2006, 11:46:00 PM
QUOTE(nickman @ Mar 30 2006, 06:05 AM)
Sony: Runs old games on old hardware (No emulation needed)
MS: Emulates old hardware throu sofware emulation.
You put it a little complex:
PS2: No emulation, it has a ps1 in one chip, so, the higher price than the xbox even with crapy hardware and without hard drive.
Xbox360: A very very powerfull machine than even can emulate the last generation of consoles, if anyone don't think like that maybe is because don't know a thing about system requirements for emulation
The thing is, anyone her think the ps3 is going to have this for a price of 400 dolars?:
- A new format of players, blu-ray (they are highly expensive when they come out)
- A cell processor at 3.2 ghz.
- 524 mg of a very very fast ram.
- A state of art nvidia graphic chip.
- A 60 gb hard drive.
- All the procesors of the ps2, so, almost all the console, inside.
- The control.
- Maybe one game free.
- Everything else.
If someone think that way, WOW
And with everything that, it will be AMASING if it comes with the hardware of the ps2 inside, if that doesn't come inside, there will be the emulation of a alot more complex machine, so, more problems, hahahaha, sony boys.
Post by: shamsulaswad on March 29, 2006, 11:52:00 PM
QUOTE(Sanitarium @ Mar 30 2006, 06:39 AM)
Who gives a shit about Winning Eleven 9?
I would care about WE9. The european already have their pro evolution 5 BC, and since I read somewhere that it will only works on PAL machine, I pretty much wanna play good soccer game on my 360 compared to what EA offers on FIFA.
Post by: troyBORG on March 30, 2006, 12:04:00 AM
Post by: chilin_dude on March 30, 2006, 01:11:00 AM
Post by: Megamil on March 30, 2006, 01:16:00 AM
Post by: ILLusions0fGrander on March 30, 2006, 01:32:00 AM
QUOTE(Unregistered007 @ Mar 29 2006, 11:48 PM)
One thing that I still hesitate about is the BC, my 360 was working fine till I poped in splinter cell and that just scared me, I am not going to play anymore xbox games on my 360....
could you elaborate, because that is the only BC game i plan to play on 360.
Post by: shamsulaswad on March 30, 2006, 01:43:00 AM
QUOTE(T Ghost @ Mar 30 2006, 09:32 AM)
Forza is running SMOOOOOOOOTH! perrrrfect frame rate, and looks 100% better on 360. Excellent job on this update for the forza emulator.
WE9 is another work of art. If wasn't for the controller you wouldn't realize it's not the native XBOX running.
For the guy who asked, PES4=WE8, that doesn't run on 360. WE9=PES5.
WE is the only reason I still keep my XBOX. No more reason for the old lady to be alive...
so how much improvement in graphic wise are we talking about for WE9?
Post by: PedrosPad on March 30, 2006, 02:01:00 AM
QUOTE(indiraider @ Mar 30 2006, 05:44 AM)
Now I does anyone know if this program might be a trogan horse with really a firmware update on it so you wont be able to do the Xecuter hack?
The Nov05, & Dec05 BC update distributions did also contained a firmware OS update to D/K:2.0.2241.0.
(More detail here.) There's no reason to think that the Mar06 update wouldn't also, and to an OS > D/K:2.0.2241.0 (i.e. one which will prevent the kiosk disk working ).
Post by: ZildjianKX on March 30, 2006, 02:10:00 AM
Beyond Good & Evil
Black
Fable: Lost Chapters
Half-Life 2
Halo
Halo 2
House of dead 3
I-Ninja
Panzer Dragoon
Project Snowblind
Riddick
Shenmue II
Soul Calibur 2
Super Monkey Ball
Incredible Hulk
Suffering
8/16 won't work on the 360.
Post by: PedrosPad on March 30, 2006, 02:12:00 AM
QUOTE(Megamil @ Mar 30 2006, 09:23 AM)
I think they need to get those xbox programmers they sent to help the Vista team back.
lol
Post by: Owtlaw333 on March 30, 2006, 02:21:00 AM
QUOTE(Megamil @ Mar 30 2006, 12:23 AM)
I think they need to get those xbox programmers they sent to help the Vista team back.
Was thinking the exact same thing.
And I second the Rallisport vote. Then that means I'd need ta buy myself another wheel... But Rallisport3 sounds fantastic. I thought 2 looked great, and now a next gen version...
Although wasn't EA aquiring DICE? That would kinda make me lose hope...
Post by: corkinator on March 30, 2006, 03:34:00 AM
And how does the jaggy city in San Andreas look?
Cheers
Post by: C89ZX7R on March 30, 2006, 04:19:00 AM
QUOTE(OffRoader23 @ Mar 30 2006, 04:47 AM)
Yeah, when I saw this on the RSS I was expecting something I actually had.. 3 games, thats like nothing. I am seriously hoping that they add Counter-Strike, and both the Unreal Championships, because those are a few of the games I still have left. Now I can't play Counter-Strike on live, because they haven't added them yet, but thank god I can still play Barbie Horse Adventures!!
lol funny . have you looked at the bottom of the list you could be playing
Yourself!Fitness
http://www.xbox.com/...ourselffitness/
Post by: luther349 on March 30, 2006, 05:00:00 AM
the ps3 i guess will have both blueray and standerd dvd sence blueray isnt backwords comptable. probly a dubble lazer job. the cell prosser is supposed to blow everything away even the tri core xbox 360 prosser. it will also sport a larger harddrive. its acully a first for sony to build a powerhouse. the ps2 is the weaker of all the systems even the dreamcast had more power. lets not forget there online service will have both free and pay serice but both will allow you to play all games. as for the 360 prosser its not relly tri core anyways sence it only has 1 memery unit when it should have 3 if it was a real multiprosser arc not mutch woulda been able to beat it.
of course we all learned by experance not the most powerfull system wins the console war. if it was true it wouldent be sony vs m$ it would be sega vs nintendo in the n64 and dreamcast days sence both consoles where more powerfull then the ps1.
with rumers sqare started with ff13 being the next mmo but also going to be multi console targeted who knoes whats gonna happon.
Post by: richie579 on March 30, 2006, 05:36:00 AM
Post by: KAGE360 on March 30, 2006, 06:45:00 AM
QUOTE(constanboi @ Mar 30 2006, 08:14 AM)
bah I dont care what you xbox fanboys say.... 3 new games to the list is a complete JOKE...... nearly 4-5 months to release a new update and for what.... 3...games??!?! 3 GAMES?!?
this really pisses me off... backwards compatability my ass....
seriously, what-a-joke.... 3 games? when i read the title i thought to myself, "finally jesus"... and then i read the "3 new games".. i was like.. "thats got to be a typo, the writer probably wanted to write 39 or 53..."...
i also dont give a shit about "the ps2 has the ps1 chip in it, the ps3 has the ps2+ps1 chip in it" excuses..... ALL i see is the ps3 = emulate 99% (im guessing a few wont work).. of ps2 and ps1 games..
360 = emulates like 20% of games...........
ugh I WANT TO PLAY SHENMUE 2 ON MY 360 GOD DAMN ITTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
p.s no i dont have an xbox, only a 360.
=/
im not sure what youre expecting, but the graphical improvements are minimal, they wont look like a completely new next-gen game if thats what youre hoping for.
Besides, only a couple of months until winning eleven 10 is released FOR the 360... hopefully it works on all versions (the jap version always come out a few months earlier than the rest). or at LEAST someone releases a region-free hack by that time.
go ahead and call out any names you like but before ranting a storm why not wait a little while and do some research to see if some of the existing BC titles have recieved improvements as well (like forza). BC isnt so easy to just switch on as its been said many times. also since black was just added it wont be long until many renderware titles are added.
i do understand you though, i want shemnue 2 BC really bad, and to add put on PDO and ill be happy.
on a related note to your comment, doesnt the ps3 need to emulate the ps2 and ps1 games as well? i can see the ps1 games being easy as im sure the cell alone can run it just fine but its the GPU that causes problems for emulation. im curious to see how high the rate of ps2 games really is unless sony does for the ps3 as they did with the ps2 (add a ps2 chip inside the ps3 to make BC painless)
Post by: VinnySem on March 30, 2006, 07:04:00 AM
I want to try Forza again tonite when I get home, that framerate before was ASS.
And PLEASE keep the flamebait to yourself. Jerkoffs that dont even have a 360 complaining about BW compatibility is a fuckin joke.
Post by: Shinamano on March 30, 2006, 07:11:00 AM
Post by: twistedsymphony on March 30, 2006, 07:13:00 AM
QUOTE(Owtlaw333 @ Mar 30 2006, 04:28 AM)
Was thinking the exact same thing.
And I second the Rallisport vote. Then that means I'd need ta buy myself another wheel... But Rallisport3 sounds fantastic. I thought 2 looked great, and now a next gen version...
Although wasn't EA aquiring DICE? That would kinda make me lose hope... QUOTE(corkinator @ Mar 30 2006, 05:41 AM)
Quick question... I assume all backwards compatible games are upped to 720p, but do they 'all' have anti-aliasing also?...
For all those haters out there... emulation is no easy task, it took YEARS for most of the homebrew emulators to even get to playable states, never mind console perfect, and those are for consoles decades old already. MS didn't have to include BC at all, and the compatability list was distributed before the console launched. They didn't make any promises past that they would continue to work on it... If you were expecting more then that then you obviously read way too far into the hype.
Post by: Lizard King on March 30, 2006, 07:38:00 AM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Mar 30 2006, 09:20 AM)
They didn't make any promises past that they would continue to work on it... If you were expecting more then that then you obviously read way too far into the hype.
I'm gonna hafta disagree with you there TS. MS published a list of games that would work. A lot of those games did not work - Some didn't boot right, some just loaded the menu and would lock on load (Splinter Cell) some had graphics anomolies that affected gameplay in varied ways. There was nothing in the FAQ about these problems (at the time), nor at the time I bought my 360. I was disappointed on Day one becasue of my library, Halo1 was the only game I could play.....again, according to MS's information, I should have been able to play 4.
MS had a FAQ about the BC games and said each game was "hand tested". My "research" about BC, about which games to sell for my old Xbox, about which games to keep, was all done with information put out by MS.
I believe that MS misled a bunch of people about BC. (My pessimistic view in intentionally, but that's just me....)
Post by: KAGE360 on March 30, 2006, 08:45:00 AM
QUOTE(Shinamano @ Mar 30 2006, 09:18 AM)
ANyone tried out Ninja Gaiden Black since the update...I have been thinking of getting it, but want it to be as good as Ninja Gaiden...as far as smooth as buttah!
i played ninja gaiden before the latest update and i thought it ran fine. yes it was a little bit smoother on the xbox but it was nothing bad at all. i loved it on the 360 and im a fiend for NG.
back to the topic, i know that there may be some games that dont work on the BC list that have been taken off. also anyone in gaming, especially here, should NOT expect any kind of emulation to be perfect, or even near, on day one or even year one. i have to keep saying that almost everyone here was expecting around 12-20 titles on launch day and they gave us around 200. they are doing what they set out to do, make every game BC, and there will be room for improvement for a while now. im happy that MS took this approach to BC as i think it was a good decision to concentrate on making a NEXT GEN console first and not put any time or resources in developing a system with BC and maybe holding something back from the final product. like twisted said, they didnt have to do anythin of this (and from early reports they werent going to) but they did and now even though the end product is better then we expected, people will still complain.
i suggest give it time like anything else in the emulation world and all should be fixed, i understand where some dissapointment can come from as there are games i want to be BC that arent, but good things will come eventually. in the mean time why not enjoy some next gen games on your next gen console.
Post by: incognegro on March 30, 2006, 09:57:00 AM
QUOTE(RogueStorm @ Mar 30 2006, 05:02 PM)
Seriously, why is everyone bitching about Shenmue II? The game was a Dreamcast port to the Xbox in the first place. Hell, it didn't even garner a 80% rating on most sites, why the hell would you want it to run so badly on your 360?
Let me break it down slowly for you:
Because......They......liked.......it. Who cares what another site said? if you played it and like it then wtf?
anyways, If I was on the Back Compat team an read anything on these forums you probably wouldnt be getting any updates at all! in fact, I might just break some of the games just to piss you off because you know, nobody buys a 360 to play 360 games! They use it to play xbox 1 games and then run to the forums and bitch about something that isn't really that big a deal in the first place.
Post by: KAGE360 on March 30, 2006, 09:57:00 AM
QUOTE(RogueStorm @ Mar 30 2006, 11:02 AM)
Seriously, why is everyone bitching about Shenmue II? The game was a Dreamcast port to the Xbox in the first place. Hell, it didn't even garner a 80% rating on most sites, why the hell would you want it to run so badly on your 360?
you wouldnt understand if you arent a fan of the series. its not just shemnue 2 but some other games that i didnt want to let go or was not worth the trade in value.
Post by: dmitri on March 30, 2006, 11:00:00 AM
1. At E3, MS said Xbox 360 would run the "top-selling Xbox games."
2. MS promised 200+(!!) games emulated
If you want to keep your full library, buy a PS3. Don't expect anything more than was promised from MS.
Post by: ZildjianKX on March 30, 2006, 11:17:00 AM
QUOTE(RogueStorm @ Mar 30 2006, 08:02 AM)
Seriously, why is everyone bitching about Shenmue II? The game was a Dreamcast port to the Xbox in the first place. Hell, it didn't even garner a 80% rating on most sites, why the hell would you want it to run so badly on your 360?
Actually it might look pretty good with FSAA on the 360.
Post by: GerbilJammer on March 30, 2006, 11:47:00 AM
Post by: KAGE360 on March 30, 2006, 12:32:00 PM
Darkwatch
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
Half-Life 2
Fable
Fable: The Lost Chapters
Forza Motorsport
Ninja Gaiden
Ninja Gaiden Black
SSX 3
Tom Clancys Splinter Cell Chaos Theory
kill.switch
World Series Baseball 2K3
http://www.joystiq.c...box-360-backwa/
so there we go, now we know what they did all that time. looks good to me, again fewer higher quality emus are better then many buggy/crappy ones
Post by: krawhitham on March 30, 2006, 01:13:00 PM
Post by: Foe-hammer on March 30, 2006, 02:52:00 PM
QUOTE(dmitri @ Mar 30 2006, 11:07 AM)
Why are you guys crying so much? It's in MS's best interest to sell NEW games. Rally Sport 3, Burnout 360, etc..
1. At E3, MS said Xbox 360 would run the "top-selling Xbox games."
2. MS promised 200+(!!) games emulated
If you want to keep your full library, buy a PS3. Don't expect anything more than was promised from MS.
Sony also said that the ps2 would be 100% compatible with the ps1, and it was not. It will be the same with the ps3. Your kidding yourself if you believe otherwise. But it will be a lot better then the 360 backwards compatibility, because nothing will be emulated.
Post by: KAGE360 on March 30, 2006, 02:57:00 PM
QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Mar 30 2006, 04:59 PM)
Sony also said that the ps2 would be 100% compatible with the ps1, and it was not. It will be the same with the ps3. Your kidding yourself if you believe otherwise. But it will be a lot better then the 360 backwards compatibility, because nothing will be emulated.
how is it not being emulated? im not argueing but im confused on how they are achieving BC on the ps3. the ps2 had ps1 parts in it to make BC work but i didnt read anything about that in the ps3. with the nvidia GPU and cell chip isnt that entirely different then the emotion engine so emulation is a must?
also while talking about compatibility and sony, only that company will release a revised version of their already existing console that wont even work on some ps2 games! the newest version of the ps2 (silver verion i think) can not play even some new games like the newest tekken to be or already released.
Post by: twistedsymphony on March 30, 2006, 02:57:00 PM
QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Mar 30 2006, 04:59 PM)
Sony also said that the ps2 would be 100% compatible with the ps1, and it was not. It will be the same with the ps3. Your kidding yourself if you believe otherwise. But it will be a lot better then the 360 backwards compatibility, because nothing will be emulated.
very true, heck the newer version of the slim PS2 has compatibility problems with some older PS2 games... That's not even backwards compatibility, that's just.... compatibility
Post by: ximmortalxxkingx on March 30, 2006, 03:53:00 PM
Post by: LVmOddER on March 30, 2006, 07:38:00 PM
Post by: GeToChKn on March 30, 2006, 08:25:00 PM
Post by: twistedsymphony on March 30, 2006, 10:07:00 PM
QUOTE(miggidy @ Mar 30 2006, 05:38 PM)
The thing that bothers me about this X360 BC "issue" (i use that term loosely),
is that Peter Moore said that they would continue emulating games on a game to game basis until they have one emulation engine that emulates every game.
So knowing that, "what's the hold up?" is the question that comes to my mind....
You figured if these cats can come up with specific game emulators, then they have the know-how needed to develope one Xbox emulator for most of their games. They've had more than enough time to do it....
The Xbox is still bringing in profit on the software end. And contrary to popular belief, M$ came out earlier this week and said that they have no plans of discontinuing Xbox production.
All this leads me to believe that M$ is afraid of releasing one common emulator.
Perhaps they fear that someone will pull that emulator and code it for use on PC's.
Such act would kill most of M$'s software sales and it would probably anger their 3rd party associates who still count on the regular Xbox for most of their revenue.
So game specific emulators makes perfect sense to M$ right now.
Maybe in a year or two, M$ will finally give us the ultimate Xbox emulator download.
I predict this will happen as early as the PS3 launch, or no later than next year.
Why this time frame? The release of both Sony's and Nintendo's next gen consoles will be the official end of the current console generation. Both consumers and software developers/publishers will focus on the next generation.
My 2 cents
QUOTE(ximmortalxxkingx @ Mar 30 2006, 06:00 PM)
wow...almost 4 months in the making and they pull off 3 games.....how lame can you go.....great job m$
Post by: AbRASiON on March 31, 2006, 03:01:00 AM
They have this strange initiative to make all the games run in 720p that are backwards compatible. (so I hear)
ARGH, so some of these B/C games are going to look REALLY good because the Xbox really isn't that bad graphically, despite it's age.
So MS are kinda stuck, do they release something like jade empire which looks really quite nice at 4:3 480p so that it does 720p (pillarboxed, I would guess?) ?
Cause it's going to look GOOD - so good infact hell I might just play that rather than whatever else they've released.
I think it's nice of them, but stupid - for goodness sakes some of these B/C games have frame rate issues,... guess what fella's - you could solve some of that by just supporting 480p, like the Xbox 1 always did ,... then you're not wasting cpu / gpu cycles AND some of our games might work!
Don't promise what you can't keep, it's just pissed a lot of us off.
I know 720p is better than 480p but hell we originally played these games in 480p fine - I'd prefer 480p working myself
- 720p stuttering or un-certified is useless to me.
Post by: Jimmni on March 31, 2006, 09:10:00 AM
x86 vs PowerPC
The original Xbox used x86 CPU chips, such as those made by Intel and AMD. Pretty much all PCs contain x86 chips. It was natural for MS to use them, since they're what they have experience using and programming for.
The Xbox 360 has shifted over to PowerPC CPU chips. These are the same family of chips that have powered Apple Macintosh computers for, well, years. The Xbox 360, PS3 and Revolution will all use PowerPC chips.
There's a fundamental difference between PowerPC and x86 in how they deal with numbers. Anyone who wants to get into more technical detail should Google it.
The reason the Xbox 360 must resort to emulation is that the two chip types just aren't directly compatible. Every single instruction sent to the chip needs to be changed. Apple are facing the exact same problem going in the opposite direction - they're having to emulate many of the OS X apps that were programmed for PowerPC chips when they are run on the new Intel (x86) Macs. Unless MS stuck a whole Xbox in the 360's box, they have no choice but to emulate.
Sony and Nintendo don't have the same problem. It isn't as simple as just popping a GameCube disc in the drive of the Revolution, obviously, but since both the PS2 and GameCube used PowerPC chips, and since both the PS3 and Revolution use PowerPC chips (Cell comes under the PowerPC family) they don't have to do the same low-level translation that MS would need to do. They still have to do a lot of technical stuff that I certainly don't understand, but they aren't faced with the same massive obstacle that MS are.
Now, the emulator on the Xbox 360 would be totally useless on the PC. There is no way anyone would ever rip it off and twiddle it to work under Windows. Why? Because they'd have to emulate an emulator, and that's just plain silly. It would be like running PearPC on your Intel PC to emulate a PowerPC Mac and then running Virtual PC on that to emulate a Intel PC. There's a much better chance of getting PowerMac G5s running the Xbox emulator than a Windows PC.
And don't forget - it was Apple's PowerMac G5s that MS sent to developers of the Xbox 360, not Dell PCs. It's all in the chips.
Post by: twistedsymphony on March 31, 2006, 10:02:00 AM
QUOTE(AbRASiON @ Mar 31 2006, 05:08 AM)
MS have shot themselves in the damned foot.
They have this strange initiative to make all the games run in 720p that are backwards compatible. (so I hear)
ARGH, so some of these B/C games are going to look REALLY good because the Xbox really isn't that bad graphically, despite it's age.
So MS are kinda stuck, do they release something like jade empire which looks really quite nice at 4:3 480p so that it does 720p (pillarboxed, I would guess?) ?
Cause it's going to look GOOD - so good infact hell I might just play that rather than whatever else they've released.
I think it's nice of them, but stupid - for goodness sakes some of these B/C games have frame rate issues,... guess what fella's - you could solve some of that by just supporting 480p, like the Xbox 1 always did ,... then you're not wasting cpu / gpu cycles AND some of our games might work!
Don't promise what you can't keep, it's just pissed a lot of us off.
I know 720p is better than 480p but hell we originally played these games in 480p fine - I'd prefer 480p working myself
- 720p stuttering or un-certified is useless to me.Well the 360 doesn't actually render the games at a higher resolution it simply scales them, the scaler chip is external to the CPU and GPU so scaling something to 720p doesn't cost them anything... Basically you'd probably see the same frame rate issues at 480p that you see at 720p.
4xMSAA costs a little more but not so much that it would eliminate your frame rate issues if they removed it, and without it games would probably look worse then on an Xbox 1 after being scalled
Post by: KAGE360 on March 31, 2006, 11:06:00 AM
QUOTE(Jimmni @ Mar 31 2006, 11:17 AM)
Sony and Nintendo don't have the same problem. It isn't as simple as just popping a GameCube disc in the drive of the Revolution, obviously, but since both the PS2 and GameCube used PowerPC chips, and since both the PS3 and Revolution use PowerPC chips (Cell comes under the PowerPC family) they don't have to do the same low-level translation that MS would need to do. They still have to do a lot of technical stuff that I certainly don't understand, but they aren't faced with the same massive obstacle that MS are.
since when has the ps2 used a powerPC chip? i thought the emotion engine was developed by toshiba. also the problem mainly comes from the different GPUs not CPUs. converting/emulating code from one CPU to another is far easier then to emulate code specifically made for a GPU. the technology and methods used in both Nvidia and ATI cards are different and through the emulation, the code must make the ATI card act like an Nvidia card.
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Mar 31 2006, 12:09 PM)
Well the 360 doesn't actually render the games at a higher resolution it simply scales them, the scaler chip is external to the CPU and GPU so scaling something to 720p doesn't cost them anything... Basically you'd probably see the same frame rate issues at 480p that you see at 720p.
4xMSAA costs a little more but not so much that it would eliminate your frame rate issues if they removed it, and without it games would probably look worse then on an Xbox 1 after being scalled
exactly what i was going to tell the guy. also i find it stupid for anyone to say any company is shooting themselves in the foot by giving us more then what we expected.
while were talking about BC and 720p there is something that is confusing me. i thought 720p was widescreen only, but some games (halo for ex.) does not display in full widescreen format, so does that mean that it isnt being properly scaled to 720p?
and to all those who still choose to complain and bitch, like twisted and i have said, not only have they added 3 games but have also improved on 13 existing games. i have already read reports that once buggy games like forza work fine now, which is great news to those of us who love the game to this day.
Post by: twistedsymphony on March 31, 2006, 11:20:00 AM
QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Mar 31 2006, 01:13 PM)
...exactly what i was going to tell the guy. also i find it stupid for anyone to say any company is shooting themselves in the foot by giving us more then what we expected. ...
IMO anyone who's responding with "Only three games!" probably doesn't care about the emulator is just looking for something to complain about. Anyone who really cared would be more excited about the improved capability of existing games. Or at least complain about the particular games they want that still arn't compatible.
Post by: Lizard King on March 31, 2006, 11:42:00 AM
BC is a reason I bought the 360, and I did not decide I actually wanted one until I saw that BC was the plan. I've said it before - this is a valid REASON to buy a 360, it is not a gift. It is not something I should bend over and thank MS for all their graciousness. It is something announced, and advertised before the console hit the market.
Some people have the space for one more console - I do not. My receiver only has 6 digital inputs, 5 of which are used now. I do not use crappy video switching boxes. My complaint was that MS did not deliver as promised. That may have been true for launch, but I am ecstatic to see work has not ceased. I'm happier and happier each day; it seemed like such a slow start.
Post by: incognegro on March 31, 2006, 03:23:00 PM
QUOTE
I'm happy with the games they fixed, not the games they added (as soon as they get me a jump button for Black, I'll buy it), but that's irrelevant
I can never undertsand why ppl make stupid excuses NOT to play a good game.
anyways in terms of ps3 Back Compat, I heard theyre putting in some of the ps2 chipset in the system while the ps1 games run by software emulation (makes sense since its easier to emulate).
Post by: Lizard King on March 31, 2006, 04:11:00 PM
QUOTE(incognegro @ Mar 31 2006, 05:30 PM)
I can never undertsand why ppl make stupid excuses NOT to play a good game.
Facetious. Look it up. The game is not my cup of tea, I don't have to make excuses, I didn't like it for a number of reasons. One of which was the lack of jump, which i felt was needed. I did not enjoy the demo, rented the game anyway, was not very entertained
Post by: ximmortalxxkingx on March 31, 2006, 07:43:00 PM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Mar 31 2006, 06:14 AM)
For my money the 13 games that were on the list before and are now being emulated near flawlessly as opposed to barely playable is worth a whole lot more then 3 new games... IMO that means they added closer to 16.
Ok...well the 13 games should never have even been released untill now if they were "barely playable"...
Post by: Gobelet on April 03, 2006, 03:48:00 PM
Post by: incognegro on April 03, 2006, 06:16:00 PM
QUOTE
Facetious. Look it up. The game is not my cup of tea, I don't have to make excuses, I didn't like it for a number of reasons. One of which was the lack of jump, which i felt was needed. I did not enjoy the demo, rented the game anyway, was not very entertained
yea ok.....good 4 u.
QUOTE
Ok...well the 13 games should never have even been released untill now if they were "barely playable"...
hmmm.........good point.
Post by: Hannard on April 04, 2006, 03:41:00 AM
Post by: PedrosPad on April 04, 2006, 04:09:00 AM
QUOTE(Hannard @ Apr 4 2006, 10:48 AM)
I'm wondering if the March 2006 update has been pulled. Because whereas the original update file was 3.8MB, the current one seems to be 3.07MB and is dated as being from December. Anyone else found this?
I concur, it has changed!
Oddly, I've also noticed that it's different again if downloaded from the UK BC page.
The US xbox.com BC page says "March 2006 update", the UK BC page doesn't (phased rollout maybe?).
Further, looking inside the March update zips....
US default.xex downloaded early March = 3,862,528 bytes
US default.xex (downloaded just now, 04/04) = 3,153,920 bytes - So indeed smaller!
UK default.xex (downloaded just now, 04/04) = 3,866,624 bytes - Biggest!
Well spotted Hannard, and certainly interesting.
Post by: Hannard on April 04, 2006, 05:47:00 AM
QUOTE(PedrosPad @ Apr 4 2006, 11:16 AM)
I concur, it has changed!
Oddly, I've also noticed that it's different again if downloaded from the UK BC page.
The US xbox.com BC page says "March 2006 update", the UK BC page doesn't (phased rollout maybe?).
Further, looking inside the March update zips....
US default.xex downloaded early March = 3,862,528 bytes
US default.xex (downloaded just now, 04/04) = 3,153,920 bytes - So indeed smaller!
UK default.xex (downloaded just now, 04/04) = 3,866,624 bytes - Biggest!
Well spotted Hannard, and certainly interesting.
The file was different last night, which was I last downloaded it. Now I've tried it again and it's a new file! In fact, I know why it's changed. It's a stealth update to enable sound on the PAL version of Star Wars Battlefront 2! And presumably Ninja Gaiden as well.
Post by: Hannard on April 04, 2006, 06:18:00 AM
Post by: PedrosPad on April 04, 2006, 09:05:00 AM
QUOTE(Hannard @ Apr 4 2006, 01:25 PM)
By which I mean I *know* it fixes the no-sound bug on PAL Battlefront 2 as I've got that game.
Appears your quite right. From Major Nelson's blog Update: Back Compat update:
QUOTE
There is an update to the Back Compat update that went out last week. This update does NOT add any new titles to the list, but rather fixes some audio issues. The back compat team game me this information to share:
Today weve released a compatibility update to resolve the loss of audio problem some customers outside of North America and Asia were experiencing with the March update. The Backwards Compatibility product is complex and we committed an error when building the package to release on Live. These issues are now resolved.
This update is now available via Xbox Live (when you play an original Xbox title youll get prompted for the update.)
Note: It may take a couple of hours before the updated version appears on the website (it has to be loaded on a lot of download servers) so if you have live just grab it from there. Again, no new titles were added to the list.
Today weve released a compatibility update to resolve the loss of audio problem some customers outside of North America and Asia were experiencing with the March update. The Backwards Compatibility product is complex and we committed an error when building the package to release on Live. These issues are now resolved.
This update is now available via Xbox Live (when you play an original Xbox title youll get prompted for the update.)
Note: It may take a couple of hours before the updated version appears on the website (it has to be loaded on a lot of download servers) so if you have live just grab it from there. Again, no new titles were added to the list.