Post by: Xbox-Scene on May 21, 2007, 09:43:00 PM
Xbox360 LIVE Bans Info and iXtreme Online FW WIP Posted by XanTium | May 21 23:43 EST | News Category: Xbox360 |
| Here are some details about the Xbox360 LIVE bans I got directly and indirectly from GaryOPA, Commodore4eva (C4E), Iriez and others. Of course don't take any of this info as 100% confirmed, noone knows exactly based on what data MS is banning ... it's just an analysis of what they think is happening and what MS might/can be checking. C4E thinks MS is probably detecting and banning consoles from LIVE by tracking usage of backups via timing of the challenge response (c/r) on the drive over the last few weeks or months. A modified FW will reply much faster to the the Challenges requests (stored in a table) than an original firmware (seek on drive). They probably do this test more than once and can ban you if you're above a certain average. FuzzyLogic also found that microsoft is sometimes doing additional checks on discs: PFI/DMI (so images without these sectors (or if using an old FWs without support for PFI/DMI) can probably be detected easily), drive inquiry (reads ascii string from drive), and capacity (reports capacity of disc) are requested. Strange thing here is MS requests 0x8000 bytes for PFI and DMI, while it should normally be 0x0800 bytes. TheSpecialist pointed out that the remaining 0x7800 bytes contains the relocated SS and PFI on burned discs ... which would make it very easy to detect backups for MS. C4E however told us this would not work on TS drives as its cut off to 0800 even if more data is asked, it's unconfirmed how modified HLG FWs drives respond to this atm. The "read capacity check" will also work as detection on HLG because, unlike the newest TS FWs, it doesn't have true 'stealth media' yet, these drives are reporting back the burned disc based size of PFI instead of the correct PFI. Apparently there's also an issue with SS (Security Sector) extracted from Hitachi-LG, some necessary data is screwed ... which means that probably only the Toshiba-Samsung / Kreon setup has been extracting correct SS. Another thing they are probably detecting (but probably not using yet to decide to ban or not) and log/flag is if you ever booted your Xbox360 with DVD SATA cable not connected to your Xbox360 (E64). Many people did this to power their drive when they wanted to flash it (power connected to 360, SATA to PC). So it's highly suggested to use an external power to flash next time. It's also possible MS also bans based on stuff like bad credit card info for your country, running a NTSC machine with euro-address/credit card (or inverse), having out-of-region (arcade) games and demos on your HDD, unofficial 360 HDD, internet downloaded gamesaves etc. There's no clear view on all this yet. For now, C4E believes Microsoft is not detecting modified FWs or detecting FW changes/updates. Using a special FW they did not detect any debug commands sent to the drive by MS (they went through the dash/kernel updates with the special FW as well and did not detect any debug commands there either). So they think either: A/ MS is not doing any FW detection right now, and only previously (maybe on request of MS servers while playing on LIVE?), or B/ MS is banning based only on the timings of the drive, ss/pfi/dmi checks, capacity, drive inquiry and c/r verification. We also got information C4E is working on an "iXtreme Online" FW for Toshiba-Samsung drives, a Hitachi-LG version and maybe even BenQ version might follow later. The new FW will have less features than the current Xtreme FWs: no single-layer (DVD5) support, no ripping of games (0800 mode), but more features to safely play from burned discs (emulate the exact speed and timings of the original games) and prevent booting from un-safe discs (without PFI and DMI or bad SS - so discs not passing the 'Stealth Check' (using Xbox Backup Creator(info) for example) are not going to boot on the new firmware), or images that aren't exact dumps of the original. There's no official ETA (maybe this weekend though for TS drives), and of course no guarantee MS will never ban you based on new checks (that's the risk it takes if you want to be part of the modding community ;)) The HLG FW will take a bit longer as it'll require true 'Stealth media' etc added. This new FW will of course be made mostly for new consoles being modded, because even if you're not banned from LIVE yet there's no way to know if MS already has info/logs on your console ID regarding timings or other stuff so even changing to this new firmware in the near future may not stop that console ID from being banned in the next wave of MS bans. If your console is not banned yet, it's highly suggested you don't boot any burned discs, originals should be ok, even when offline (MS might be storing results of some checks in flash), until the release of the new FW. If your console is already banned this will of course not help you ... just enjoy the offline playing on that console for now (with some games you could try using 3rd party networks like XLink Kai(info)) and maybe some day a new exploit will allow you to do more with that console. To end with ... X-Scene's obvious tip of the month: don't buy 2nd hand Xbox360 consoles ;) |
Post by: magic_man185 on May 21, 2007, 09:13:00 PM
Post by: XanTium on May 21, 2007, 09:57:00 PM
QUOTE(magic_man185 @ May 22 2007, 05:49 AM) 
so if we were lucky enough to not get banned, but have previously played burned disks, then we should not even play backups offline? Because of possible detection by kernel?
it's probably possible (some) of these checks are done by the kernel and could be logged into flash ... so even playing burned discs offline is a risk if you don't want to get banned from LIVE.
Post by: ikecomp on May 21, 2007, 09:22:00 PM
QUOTE(magic_man185 @ May 21 2007, 10:49 PM) 
so if we were lucky enough to not get banned, but have previously played burned disks, then we should not even play backups offline? Because of possible detection by kernel?
yep, apparently this is where the information is stored and can be requested by MS (through live) at any time so playing offline with backups will do you no good because the information is still stored whether you're online or not.
Post by: nuke field ET on May 21, 2007, 09:25:00 PM
Post by: restricted4545 on May 21, 2007, 09:26:00 PM
i have an non flashed TS
when the new FW is released would it be "safer" to flash with say the blaster360, which is an external powering solution?
sorry if i'm way off
TIA
Post by: zal91 on May 21, 2007, 09:27:00 PM
Post by: PerfectGun on May 21, 2007, 09:32:00 PM
This place is crawling with narcs and you post this info... pfftt
Post by: nickolasj80 on May 21, 2007, 09:41:00 PM
Post by: Muzzakus on May 21, 2007, 10:18:00 PM
QUOTE(PerfectGun @ May 22 2007, 04:08 AM)
Ahhh the big mouths of the internet strike again! Can't even keep quiet about this until the damn thing is released... MS Thanks you for your complete coverage of C4E's working so it can be defeated day 1.
This place is crawling with narcs and you post this info... pfftt
You're a fool. This is the scene, it's all open and transparent - no secrcey and tricks. That's M$'s game.
Let the information flow, and thanks to the Boys for shedding light on the situation and for busting their chops on a solution.
Death to corporation, Long live the Scene.
Post by: XanTium on May 21, 2007, 09:49:00 PM
QUOTE(PerfectGun @ May 22 2007, 06:08 AM)
Ahhh the big mouths of the internet strike again! Can't even keep quiet about this until the damn thing is released... MS Thanks you for your complete coverage of C4E's working so it can be defeated day 1.
This place is crawling with narcs and you post this info... pfftt
if the FW is released, the binary is available for anyone ... do you really think MS doesn't have the right people to analyze it? We aren't telling anything MS can't find out themselves.
Post by: blue_calx on May 21, 2007, 10:31:00 PM
QUOTE(nickolasj80 @ May 22 2007, 12:17 AM)
The article states that the new FW won't be able to read DVD5, what about xbox1 single layers?
are you fucking serious? re-read your question
Post by: PerfectGun on May 21, 2007, 10:31:00 PM
QUOTE(Muzzakus @ May 21 2007, 09:18 PM)
You're a fool. This is the scene, it's all open and transparent - no secrcey and tricks. That's M$'s game.
Let the information flow, and thanks to the Boys for shedding light on the situation and for busting their chops on a solution.
Death to corporation, Long live the Scene.
That's the exact reason I say that.. It's like a chess game at this point and MS will always have the upper hand when information like this is readily available. That's the difference, MS security keeps their mouths shut. You have to rely on secrecy and tricks to stay one step ahead and you are the fool for making a statement like "it's all open and transparent - no secrecy and tricks". It's all about the tricks!
All posts like this do is satisfy the "noob" curiousity and ends up in a thread of usually stupid questions.. I think someone needs to lock a certain IRC channel so it's invite only. And the other information was being discussed on another website I'm sure MS are familiar with but at least they don't make it front page news and then have digg pick it up...
I've been in the scene for MANY years before the internet is what it is today and it always thrived on being in the shadows.. But I guess those days are over and your long live the scene is stupid.. I've been watching it die slowly for a long time and things like this makes it worse..
Oh well.. I guess the damage is done..
Post by: blue_calx on May 21, 2007, 09:58:00 PM
I don't want to buy that whole kit if all i need is to get the xbox360 drive adapted to a molex connection.
Note: I tried searching around and couldn't find one.
Post by: kylec2425 on May 21, 2007, 10:01:00 PM
I'm strongly looking forward to this new firmware update, and wont have any problem buying another system and testing out the new firmware, i hate microsoft for their dictation on how we use our own hardware that we pay money for, but hey... when you're money hungry you go all out...
Post by: wellmodded on May 21, 2007, 10:37:00 PM
Post by: PerfectGun on May 21, 2007, 10:39:00 PM
QUOTE(XanTium @ May 21 2007, 09:25 PM)
if the FW is released, the binary is available for anyone ... do you really think MS doesn't have the right people to analyze it? We aren't telling anything MS can't find out themselves.
Of course, but let's at least get it in the hands of the people before giving them all the tools. Now they know this is coming maybe instead of slowing banning they are going to change the numbers and just drop the hammer on everyone?? Once your banned your done.. So I would at least like a chance to try it before MS kills my Live connection. If I was MS now that I see this coming I would take an even closer look at the numbers(since MS has been logging for awhile we now know) and if I see anything out of the ordinary ban them now before they have a chance to run this FW.
I just think all this info should of waited until the binary was released.
Post by: eatshitanddie on May 21, 2007, 10:40:00 PM
I was thinking though...
some of the latest games like FF2 and Crackdown have messed up Video Sectors...maybe they are looking at that too? aleast for crackdown...
Post by: ikecomp on May 21, 2007, 10:10:00 PM
QUOTE(restricted4545 @ May 21 2007, 11:02 PM)
school me on this
i have an non flashed TS
when the new FW is released would it be "safer" to flash with say the blaster360, which is an external powering solution?
sorry if i'm way off
TIA
no need...I would think you could just use 5.25 external enclosure with a sata interface....it should work the same way
Post by: Base8 on May 21, 2007, 10:46:00 PM
Post by: magokbr on May 21, 2007, 11:01:00 PM
i can't wait for this release!
thanks!
Post by: blue45 on May 21, 2007, 11:03:00 PM
Post by: geniusjc on May 21, 2007, 11:16:00 PM
The FW upgrades and methods used for playing backups along with any possible methods for detecting them need to follow a similar plan so that there is no advance warning and it will be longer time enjoying backups on the FW before having to rewrite a new one. And don't try to say M$ has smart people that could figure it out on their own. If they did we wouldn't have ever been able to play backups in the first place and the hypervisor vulnerability that was released in the normal updates wouldn't have been there.
Post by: Iriez on May 21, 2007, 10:43:00 PM
QUOTE(magic_man185 @ May 21 2007, 10:49 PM)
so if we were lucky enough to not get banned, but have previously played burned disks, then we should not even play backups offline? Because of possible detection by kernel?
We already know that the amount of power up's are stored in the nand flash. We suspect that e64 (no dvd unit attached) and other errors are also stored. It is just as easy for them to check c/r, dmi, pfi to create a error report to flag and store.
QUOTE(PerfectGun @ May 21 2007, 11:08 PM)
Ahhh the big mouths of the internet strike again! Can't even keep quiet about this until the damn thing is released... MS Thanks you for your complete coverage of C4E's working so it can be defeated day 1.
This place is crawling with narcs and you post this info... pfftt
We have been playing backups on live for a year. ...Yes, *a year*. It has taken them a whole year to implement a security, and within 2-3 days we have already discovered and defeated it. What more do you really think they have up their sleeve? With billions of dollars to throw into security, dont you think if they had a full-proof solution they would have implemented it first-bang? Think from a buisness perspective, instead of a ignorant-consumer prospective for a second, and I think you'll realize your statements lack of logic.
QUOTE(nickolasj80 @ May 21 2007, 11:17 PM)
The article states that the new FW won't be able to read DVD5, what about xbox1 single layers?
DVD5 = Single Layer
QUOTE(blue_calx @ May 21 2007, 11:34 PM)
Is there a guide on how to make a ODD adapter similar to the Xecuter connectivity kit?
I don't want to buy that whole kit if all i need is to get the xbox360 drive adapted to a molex connection.
Note: I tried searching around and couldn't find one.
No. however, perhaps someone will make one now.
QUOTE(wellmodded @ May 21 2007, 11:37 PM)
just wonderign since Samsung drive are soo good at sleathing and stuff if i spoofed a sammy drive so it can work on my xbox360 which ahs a hatchi would that be ok
It is not that MS see's your drive as a samsung, its that their method of checking the dmi/pfi is reported incorrectly (and therefore flagged) from a hitachi. Spoofing mean's nothing.
QUOTE(PerfectGun @ May 21 2007, 11:39 PM)
Of course, but let's at least get it in the hands of the people before giving them all the tools. Now they know this is coming maybe instead of slowing banning they are going to change the numbers and just drop the hammer on everyone?? Once your banned your done.. So I would at least like a chance to try it before MS kills my Live connection. If I was MS now that I see this coming I would take an even closer look at the numbers(since MS has been logging for awhile we now know) and if I see anything out of the ordinary ban them now before they have a chance to run this FW.
I just think all this info should of waited until the binary was released.
Read above. We've been saying this is going to be a cat/mouse game to come for almost a year....we are just experiencing it now. No surprise. There are a few other ways for MS to detect, but they are being patched, or are unreliable (lots of non-modded users will be banned)
Post by: dre74 on May 21, 2007, 11:21:00 PM
QUOTE(XanTium @ May 22 2007, 04:57 AM)
it's probably possible (some) of these checks are done by the kernel and could be logged into flash ... so even playing burned discs offline is a risk if you don't want to get banned from LIVE.
If this is the case why has no one with a modchip like the nme reported being banned. If it proves to be safer I might try a nme chip next time vs flashing the drive.
Post by: mlapaglia on May 21, 2007, 11:25:00 PM
Post by: hawkolugy on May 21, 2007, 11:30:00 PM
Post by: copter71 on May 21, 2007, 11:30:00 PM
ok now that I have that out of my system, thank you guys so much for keeping up with M$ and not giving up, there are some haters/skeptics out ther, but what they don't realize is that you guys aren't obligated to do ANYTHING for us, so I appreciate your generosity!
Hopefully we'll be good for at least another year of flying under the radar ^.^
What will the firmware do if a bad (detectable) backup is inserted? Eject it? or just not load it?
Post by: shniper9 on May 21, 2007, 11:31:00 PM
Post by: DBG on May 21, 2007, 11:37:00 PM
HOWEVER! At this point in time, I don't think any next-gen console, even the 360, has a catalog of stellar games that is so great that anyone with a job can't save up to buy a copy of the best games out there, used or not. Just my opinion and I wanted to put it out there. Also as a side note I am sad to see that more isn't being done with Linux and the PS3. Hell XMBC seems to be more active than this project. I know the platform is different and not what people have been using for the last decade or so, but I'll have to come up with my own ports and programs (which I would of course share freely), and I am looking forward to seeing Linux on the 360 one day, and perhaps getting some more help in programming than I've been getting so far for the PS3 (maybe I am just not looking in the right places, maybe there aren't enough people interested, but I've already gone way off-topic so I'll leave it at that and let someone PM me if they have something to say).
Post by: scottmuller28 on May 21, 2007, 11:41:00 PM
Dont rush out and purchase another console just wait, and cancel your live subscription if you really want to get back at them. Hit them where it hurts $$. Only need a small % to do this will make them think twice!!
Post by: indiraider on May 21, 2007, 11:42:00 PM
Post by: BEVEL on May 21, 2007, 11:54:00 PM
Post by: copter71 on May 21, 2007, 11:21:00 PM
QUOTE(BEVEL @ May 22 2007, 06:54 AM)
Is there any word on the HDD being safe for usage in a new console ?
salright, its safe ese
Post by: Haruno on May 21, 2007, 11:21:00 PM
QUOTE(nickolasj80 @ May 22 2007, 05:17 AM)
The article states that the new FW won't be able to read DVD5, what about xbox1 single layers?
I believe it means it won't read singlelayer/dvd5 backups.
Xbox 1 retail games will work just fine.
After all, it was 5.2 that introduced single layer backup ability.
Before 5.2, xbox 1 backups worked but you HAD to burn it on a dual layer.
Post by: feflicker on May 22, 2007, 12:00:00 AM
It sounds like the right people are on the right track, good news, and good work!
Post by: BEVEL on May 22, 2007, 12:04:00 AM
QUOTE(feflicker @ May 22 2007, 07:00 AM)
As soon as all these extra features started being added in the FW (Xbox 1, DVD5, etc) I thought it was a horrible idea. I'm glad we are back on the "let's make this as close to retail as possible" bandwagon, I liked that strategy much better...
It sounds like the right people are on the right track, good news, and good work! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Doesnt matter.
My box is banned so Ill continue to use the DVD5 FW
Im glad they did that anyways, but also glad they removed it to improfe future security
Post by: andi_06 on May 21, 2007, 11:33:00 PM
QUOTE(nuke field ET @ May 22 2007, 02:01 PM)
I hope to hell my 360 can hold out against the banning spree until this new firmware comes out. Currently unbanned still with an elite 360 w/78fk; just got done playing my backup of crackdown offline, and just signed into live a few minutes ago...
Wait a second, you got an elite and modded it.. Your either dumb, or money is of no object to you.
Post by: pvolk on May 22, 2007, 12:13:00 AM
And to all you doubters: MS will eventually get tired of patching their security holes that get exploited by C4E and Gary... after all we always have the not so sneaky "NEW FIRMWARE AVALIABLE" warning from MS when they are adding new features(adding security fixes).
And ideally: we need a MS security insider to help out C4E and gary so we can find all the firmware checking and analyzing methods that MS is currently using... but thats never gonna happen (woudl be nice if it did tho)
Keep up the fantasic work everyone! Look forward to this rls.
End Rant
Post by: hecz on May 21, 2007, 11:42:00 PM
QUOTE(andi_06 @ May 22 2007, 02:09 AM)
Wait a second, you got an elite and modded it.. Your either dumb, or money is of no object to you.
I think he has the money cuz there is no reason for buying an elite. Unless you want: fancy colors, bigger HDD (for what?) and of course being online everyday to play your xbla games and content
Post by: Iriez on May 21, 2007, 11:43:00 PM
QUOTE(dre74 @ May 22 2007, 12:21 AM)
If this is the case why has no one with a modchip like the nme reported being banned. If it proves to be safer I might try a nme chip next time vs flashing the drive.
NME is banned aswell. Anyone who uses a non-stealth backup (and NME style SS is *very* detectable) will be banned eventually.
Post by: gerzand on May 21, 2007, 11:53:00 PM
QUOTE(blue_calx @ May 22 2007, 04:34 AM)
Is there a guide on how to make a ODD adapter similar to the Xecuter connectivity kit?
I don't want to buy that whole kit if all i need is to get the xbox360 drive adapted to a molex connection.
Note: I tried searching around and couldn't find one.
http://www.kev.nu/360/dvdshort.html
Post by: STICKY_BUD on May 22, 2007, 12:44:00 AM
QUOTE(Iriez @ May 21 2007, 10:19 PM)
We already know that the amount of power up's are stored in the nand flash. We suspect that e64 (no dvd unit attached) and other errors are also stored. It is just as easy for them to check c/r, dmi, pfi to create a error report to flag and store.
...
It is not that MS see's your drive as a samsung, its that their method of checking the dmi/pfi is reported incorrectly (and therefore flagged) from a hitachi. Spoofing mean's nothing.
...
hey iriez, since "spoofing means nothing", would swapping drives from non-flashed hitachi to flashed samsung pose a risk of being banned?
This post has been edited by STICKY_BUD: May 22 2007, 07:47 AM
Post by: tomgreen99200 on May 22, 2007, 12:48:00 AM
Post by: Phat Phreddy on May 22, 2007, 12:21:00 AM
QUOTE(PerfectGun @ May 22 2007, 11:08 AM)
This place is crawling with narcs and you post this info... pfftt
Interesting.. And why would you feel narcotics agents are on these forums ??
pfftt indeed..
Post by: StormB on May 22, 2007, 12:57:00 AM
Will
Post by: pure3d2 on May 22, 2007, 12:25:00 AM
QUOTE(StormB @ May 22 2007, 07:57 AM)
i haven't got an open 360 handy.. but can't you just unplug the power connector to the 360 motherboard to stop it booting, while you're flashing the ODD?
Will
Where do you think the ODD is getting its power from? Hint: The motherboard.
Post by: DjBOX on May 22, 2007, 12:39:00 AM
About the power of the DVD, I think it's not possible, because we have, in france, a guy which play with XBLA games without DVD drive, and he did the last update.
And if you want to check, switch on your xbox and check the start time with and without DVD Drive.
With some people, we check the data transmit by the network, and we will compare with a ban and no ban xbox.
For this time, the xbox connect on the live, to check if this console are ban or not, so the good way, maybe, it's send by the network to the xbox, the good message to unban the console.
I will inform you when I have a good news.
Gx-Mod Forum
Greeting from france.
Post by: BEVEL on May 22, 2007, 01:22:00 AM
QUOTE(DjBOX @ May 22 2007, 08:15 AM)
Hello
About the power of the DVD, I think it's not possible, because we have, in france, a guy which play with XBLA games without DVD drive, and he did the last update.
And if you want to check, switch on your xbox and check the start time with and without DVD Drive.
With some people, we check the data transmit by the network, and we will compare with a ban and no ban xbox.
For this time, the xbox connect on the live, to check if this console are ban or not, so the good way, maybe, it's send by the network to the xbox, the good message to unban the console.
I will inform you when I have a good news.
Gx-Mod Forum
Greeting from france.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
What the heck does he mean?
he plays online without a DVD drive???
wierd shit
This post has been edited by BEVEL: May 22 2007, 08:23 AM
Post by: mole1012000 on May 22, 2007, 12:48:00 AM
QUOTE(scottmuller28 @ May 22 2007, 05:41 AM)
I think that the bans was a test run to see outcome reaction. They will wait to see if those ppl banned will rejoin as they have to becareful not to disrupt the live service too much. I think they were not planning to do this yet but due to their ever increasing 360 failure rates & lack of demand for the PS3 have taken a punt to boost sales and test their live security detection. I dont think too many more ppl will be getting banned for this month as they will wait and see the outcome of the first wave of bans.
Dont rush out and purchase another console just wait, and cancel your live subscription if you really want to get back at them. Hit them where it hurts $$. Only need a small % to do this will make them think twice!!
I think that`s fool hardy. Think about the what is it now 8 million people on live. Now how many do you really think have done anything to there 360, other than play it. I am sure the figure isn't anywhere near 500,000 people have a modded console. So even if 500,000 (which bare in mind this site has something like 150,000 members and its the biggest modding site) then theres still going to be 7.5million left. Though even for m$ 500,000 people are worth the time and money. You get a game for $60 if the person brought it. That would end up being if 500,000 didn't buy it. This would mean NET income lost from that one game, would be= $3000,000.
Now personally you or i would turn down this money. Neither would m$. As for the whole sub scription point. How long do you think they are going to make money. If all there developers most to another console. I know i dont want to pay to play the same games over and over. It DOES matter, if anyone on here has coded or dont any programming work. They will know it can be rewarding but also a long process. Now i for one would want to get paid for my work and if not releasing my work or moving console meant i would get paid i would have in a heart beat.
Now my figures are all heresy i am not saying otherwise but my point is do you really think more than 1million people are using modded consoles or even backup`s. I say highly unlikely. Personally i would say it has yet to get near the 500,000 mark as well. So its bigger than the modders that are around its about the developers mainly and keeping them happy as well. As otherwise i as a consumer dont care how many millions of floating points my console has, i want new games and without the developers, no new games.
Mole
Post by: DjBOX on May 22, 2007, 01:25:00 AM
And all update are installed on his xbox.
Post by: vitorp07 on May 22, 2007, 01:32:00 AM
QUOTE(scottmuller28 @ May 22 2007, 01:41 AM)
I think that the bans was a test run to see outcome reaction. They will wait to see if those ppl banned will rejoin as they have to becareful not to disrupt the live service too much. I think they were not planning to do this yet but due to their ever increasing 360 failure rates & lack of demand for the PS3 have taken a punt to boost sales and test their live security detection. I dont think too many more ppl will be getting banned for this month as they will wait and see the outcome of the first wave of bans.
Dont rush out and purchase another console just wait, and cancel your live subscription if you really want to get back at them. Hit them where it hurts $$. Only need a small % to do this will make them think twice!!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grr.gif) ???????OR JUST WAIT UNTIL APPLE COMES OUT WITH SOMETHING LIKE AN IBOX (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
Post by: chris_mouland3 on May 22, 2007, 01:35:00 AM
If a Samsung drive (flashed with the new iXtreme firmware) is put into an xbox 360 that originally had a Hitachi drive (drive is spoofed obviously), would that make the system safer than if the Hitachi was kept? Or have MS found a way of detecting spoofed drives too?
I think someone asked this before, but didnt get a good reply.
Thanks
Post by: hecz on May 22, 2007, 01:47:00 AM
This post has been edited by hecz: May 22 2007, 08:49 AM
Post by: mike96sc2 on May 22, 2007, 01:52:00 AM
QUOTE(Xbox-Scene @ May 21 2007, 11:19 PM)
We also got information C4E is working on an "iXtreme Online" FW for Toshiba-Samsung drives, a Hitachi-LG version and maybe even BenQ version might follow later.
The new FW will have less features than the current Xtreme FWs: no single-layer (DVD5) support, no ripping of games (0800 mode), but more features to safely play from burned discs (emulate the exact speed and timings of the original games) and prevent booting from un-safe discs (without PFI and DMI or bad SS - so discs not passing the 'Stealth Check' (using Xbox Backup Creator()(<a href="http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox360-tools/XboxBackupCreator.php">info) for example) are not going to boot on the new firmware), or images that aren't exact dumps of the original.
or people could buy original games.
Call me a troll if you want, but considering how much the BST has gone insane lately with banned consoles and 100+ games posts, or how many people were upset their copied Crackdown they got from a friend no longer lets them online, etc. The people who have the biggest stake in seeing new firmware can't pretend it's more about backing up games they own instead of just piracy.
Post by: stezo2k on May 22, 2007, 01:22:00 AM
QUOTE(BEVEL @ May 22 2007, 06:54 AM)
Is there any word on the HDD being safe for usage in a new console ?
Well, I cant seem to sign into live on my brothers unmodded 360 with my HDD
No idea why...
Post by: Martinchris23 on May 22, 2007, 02:00:00 AM
Don't think you're safe in assuming this will prevent you from being banned. The best advice I've seen is for people to pick up a new core 360 for playing on Xbox Live and leave another 360 solely for backups. Remember you can swap the HDD from one to the other, keeping your content with you as you travel.
Martin
This post has been edited by Martinchris23: May 22 2007, 09:03 AM
Post by: Hi-Fidelity on May 22, 2007, 02:06:00 AM
you get:
- new firmware without extra features
you can not:
- play backups on live (which we would never ever do anyway)
also you should not
- play backups offline
so there is no difference between a 360 with the new firmware and an unmodded one!
you only play originals.
also: if ms can only detect that you play backups, not your firmware, you can also still stick with
the firmware you already have, just don't play backups anymore.
am i getting this totally wrong?
Post by: xmgr on May 22, 2007, 02:07:00 AM
QUOTE
C4E thinks MS is probably detecting and banning consoles from LIVE by tracking usage of backups via timing of the challenge response (c/r) on the drive over the last few weeks or months. A modified FW will reply much faster to the the Challenges requests (stored in a table) than an original firmware (seek on drive). They probably do this test more than once and can ban you if you're above a certain average.
I must admit that myself (and others) noticed a huge increase in the amount of time that it took to load the gamer profile in Crackdown over the past few weeks.
Given its popularity and the focus on the H3 Beta this would be an ideal game to include any tests on.
Post by: hecz on May 22, 2007, 01:36:00 AM
QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ May 22 2007, 04:00 AM)
Just as an FYI, the theory of flashing before using Xbox Live is a complete myth. I flash an OOTB Core 360 (literally opened it myself to do the job), which has now been reported as banned.
Don't think you're safe in assuming this will prevent you from being banned. The best advice I've seen is for people to pick up a new core 360 for playing on Xbox Live and leave another 360 solely for backups. Remember you can swap the HDD from one to the other, keeping your content with you as you travel.
Martin
oh man
thats not good. By the way, do I have to be online all the time when I play my xbla games? or just once? For example: I dont have Internet connection but I download games from my neighbors console with my HDD.
Post by: TIME2PLAYDAGAME on May 22, 2007, 01:39:00 AM
QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ May 22 2007, 03:00 AM)
Just as an FYI, the theory of flashing before using Xbox Live is a complete myth. I flash an OOTB Core 360 (literally opened it myself to do the job), which has now been reported as banned.
Don't think you're safe in assuming this will prevent you from being banned. The best advice I've seen is for people to pick up a new core 360 for playing on Xbox Live and leave another 360 solely for backups. Remember you can swap the HDD from one to the other, keeping your content with you as you travel.
Martin
For those who weren't banned so far, like 2 of my friends who hardly ever play & could care less about multiplayer...Just maybe they played their cards right & didnt even realize it.
I dont think flashing out the box is the answer to our prayers, but its certainly more comforting...Especially with the iXtreme coming out.
Post by: BEVEL on May 22, 2007, 02:23:00 AM
QUOTE(stezo2k @ May 22 2007, 08:58 AM)
Well, I cant seem to sign into live on my brothers unmodded 360 with my HDD
No idea why...
check if the console is also banned, do the network test to check this
And does your brother also have a live account on his box ?
If so.. does that account still work?
Oh btw.
As c4e stated... you might also be banned if you use downloaded save-games etc
Stuff thats not supposed to be on your console/HD
This post has been edited by BEVEL: May 22 2007, 09:25 AM
Post by: cRACKmONKEY421 on May 22, 2007, 02:25:00 AM
maybe I'll finally get one.
Remember the days when you just don't use backups on xbox live? DVD Firmware modchips don't seem so silly anymore.
I wonder if XBL would ban my original xbox if I use hacked firmware + backups on live.. not that it matters.
Good luck and thanks.
Post by: Trunks360 on May 22, 2007, 02:49:00 AM
and iam going to get banned even before touching the firmware
i hope that there is a way to make the 360 shut up about this 
dam M$ they are really destroying the live name 
Way to go C4E you are the king
Post by: Trune on May 22, 2007, 02:50:00 AM
I only done it like that to see if i was banned from live, which im not.
Post by: pinkerton on May 22, 2007, 02:56:00 AM
This post has been edited by pinkerton: May 22 2007, 09:57 AM
Post by: d-range on May 22, 2007, 02:59:00 AM
So atm I have a 360 that might have some red flags logged in flash, but which is not banned yet, still on kernel version 2585 and never had a backup in the drive while on XBL. For now I will not connect it to XBL until the new fw is out, but I'm really curious if MS can ban this one as well...
Post by: idog on May 22, 2007, 02:36:00 AM
QUOTE(blue_calx @ May 22 2007, 06:34 AM)
Is there a guide on how to make a ODD adapter similar to the Xecuter connectivity kit?
I don't want to buy that whole kit if all i need is to get the xbox360 drive adapted to a molex connection.
Note: I tried searching around and couldn't find one.
Just use a banned console for your power solution. I.e. take the drive out of the new console. Plug the power of a banned console into the drive and connect your sata as usual to the pc. When flashing is done, put the drive back in the new console and done.
No need for molex or adapters..
Post by: JORT on May 22, 2007, 03:16:00 AM
Post by: xboxer360 on May 22, 2007, 03:18:00 AM
Post by: xboxer360 on May 22, 2007, 03:33:00 AM
Post by: pinkerton on May 22, 2007, 03:40:00 AM
This post has been edited by pinkerton: May 22 2007, 10:44 AM
Post by: NumarkTTX1 on May 22, 2007, 03:46:00 AM
Post by: bonsc2 on May 22, 2007, 03:55:00 AM
Post by: TIME2PLAYDAGAME on May 22, 2007, 04:07:00 AM
QUOTE(NumarkTTX1 @ May 22 2007, 04:46 AM)
too bad for me.. i was hoping the theory of the "flashing out the box to stealth firmware" was going to keep my safe. i got my ass home tonight and found my ms28 BANNED! too bad. it was fun while it lasted...
Post by: DeMoN_DARREN on May 22, 2007, 03:31:00 AM
QUOTE(bonsc2 @ May 22 2007, 10:55 AM)
Ive ever played on live with my originals or backups the only time i ever used live was to download the odd demo and at them time update my 36 so whats the chances of a ban.What happens when you need the new updates to play the latest games.
If you wish to update, find a mate with a 360, go to his, he comes to you, whatever, take your HDD out and put that mother in a nonbanned console with your live profile, then insert orginal and wham, there you go
Post by: ewok666 on May 22, 2007, 04:14:00 AM
QUOTE(jay_galway @ May 22 2007, 10:24 AM) 
On that point, I love what Bunny said regarding he spoke to M$ about allowing homebrew to run on the xbox and prevent people copying games... Hes so neieve M$ will never do that, why? Simply put consoles including the xbox/ps etc are all high end expensive pieces of kit, that cost more to produce than they gain from selling them. Thats why games are expensive and thats where these companies make their money...
Then why does Sony let us run Homebrew? And Sony does NOT make a profit on their consoles. It's a smart move...it takes away the urge to hack it....for some of us ;-)
Post by: BEVEL on May 22, 2007, 04:27:00 AM
QUOTE(TIME2PLAYDAGAME @ May 22 2007, 11:07 AM)
IMO flashing out of the box before even making a live acct. is still the best idea. Its just that most of us didn't take certain [/b]other precautions. While others may have taken them... i would think most who aren't banned just got lucky with their gaming habbits, not even aware of what was explained by C4E tonight.
And if you read C4E's comments correctly, EVERYONE who has played a copy on XBL will eventually get banned.
No matter what firmware, drive , if you flashed it out of the box etc etc
its just that the banning is done manually, thats why its taking a while for everyone who should be banned, to get banned.
read the C4E comments again m8
This post has been edited by BEVEL: May 22 2007, 11:29 AM
Post by: KingProzak on May 22, 2007, 05:03:00 AM
Anyway, great work C4E and GaryOPA, great work lads.
This post has been edited by KingProzak: May 22 2007, 12:05 PM
Post by: sp1200 on May 22, 2007, 05:04:00 AM
That's a hell of a lot of xbox profiles to scan through by hand, even if flagged so they aren't having to go through every live user.
Not banned yet, haven't played a game on live for months but iXtreme FTW (Firm the Win).
Post by: bonsc2 on May 22, 2007, 04:31:00 AM
QUOTE(DeMoN_DARREN @ May 22 2007, 11:07 AM)
If you wish to update, find a mate with a 360, go to his, he comes to you, whatever, take your HDD out and put that mother in a nonbanned console with your live profile, then insert orginal and wham, there you go
So all i have to do is take my harddrive to someone else's 360 to update but i thought it updated something in the 360 its self
Post by: chemicalthunder on May 22, 2007, 04:44:00 AM
QUOTE(xboxer360 @ May 22 2007, 10:33 AM)
hmm i think the checks implemented at the moment have something to do with kreon rips vs ms28 rips. I have flashed close to 100 drives and most people have been banned. Of those games earlier on I ripped them using my ms28 on my xbox and the rest with the kreon drive. One of my mates who only plays a few select games which happen to be ripped from the ms28 happens to not be banned. garyopa himself said that kreon rips aren't safe so people that are not banned are you using ms28/ms25 rips only or kreon ones also?
quote from front page: "which means that probably only the Toshiba-Samsung / kreon setup has been extracting correct SS"
but maybe the kreon disks are different slightly I dunno?
Post by: the soul poet on May 22, 2007, 05:32:00 AM
QUOTE(chemicalthunder @ May 22 2007, 12:20 PM)
quote from front page: "which means that probably only the Toshiba-Samsung / kreon setup has been extracting correct SS"
but maybe the kreon disks are different slightly I dunno?
I hope the Kreon drives are correct, if so I wasted money buying that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)
Post by: wotankrieger on May 22, 2007, 05:44:00 AM
Post by: the soul poet on May 22, 2007, 05:14:00 AM
QUOTE(wotankrieger @ May 22 2007, 12:44 PM)
I think this is good but for now I've decided to buy a 2nd 360 later in the year and actually buy the very few games I want to play on live. This way I have it all, most games I never played on live anyway and there were very very few I did and I can afford to buy them. MS will find a way to ban in the long run, it's nice to see the effort, but I don't think it'll hold. They will always be able to create new discs with new methods of check implemented on them and still ban.
amen, I agree. We will counter for a while but not for good.
Unless as above it is down to non stealth firmware and not using 100% stealth backups, can anyone claim to only have done so?
Post by: little miss modder on May 22, 2007, 06:06:00 AM
Post by: bucko on May 22, 2007, 06:11:00 AM
Post by: wcrov on May 22, 2007, 06:18:00 AM
Great job C4e and Garyopa! Freedom off the M$ world!!!
i can't wait for this release!
thanks!
Post by: ryanworrell on May 22, 2007, 06:18:00 AM
QUOTE(bucko @ May 22 2007, 07:11 AM)
I think the best way to play backups now is to buy a Core along with your Premium/Elite and mod the Core Unit but set it's network gateway to 0.0.0.0 and set a manual IP address. Keep your Core up to date via CD updates and make a hard drive using HDHacker or use a Memory Unit (use the memory Unit to load your saves on your Premium/Elite to unlock achievements under your gamertag).
How do you do the updates via CD, several people here have mentioned that but none answer to how it is done.
Can't wait for the new FW. I just bought a Blaster360 so hopefully I'll be good, I like to push the limit though.
Post by: blue_calx on May 22, 2007, 06:32:00 AM
QUOTE(idog @ May 22 2007, 05:12 AM)
Just use a banned console for your power solution. I.e. take the drive out of the new console. Plug the power of a banned console into the drive and connect your sata as usual to the pc. When flashing is done, put the drive back in the new console and done.
No need for molex or adapters..
I don't know anyone around me with a banned xbox 360. Not everyone does.
Post by: peasofcrap on May 22, 2007, 07:16:00 AM
QUOTE(BEVEL @ May 22 2007, 06:27 AM)
And if you read C4E's comments correctly, EVERYONE who has played a copy on XBL will eventually get banned.
No matter what firmware, drive , if you flashed it out of the box etc etc
its just that the banning is done manually, thats why its taking a while for everyone who should be banned, to get banned.
read the C4E comments again m8
Post by: Again on May 22, 2007, 06:43:00 AM
QUOTE(BEVEL @ May 22 2007, 12:27 PM)
And if you read C4E's comments correctly, EVERYONE who has played a copy on XBL will eventually get banned.
No matter what firmware, drive , if you flashed it out of the box etc etc
its just that the banning is done manually, thats why its taking a while for everyone who should be banned, to get banned.
read the C4E comments again m8
Well maybe it's my bad english, but I can't seem to read that anywhere. As of today I'm still not banned. Only have two back-ups and have played it a a couple of times the last few weeks (never on live).
Is is inevitable that I will get banned? Because if that's the case I won't spend another 20 euros to upgrade the fw.
Post by: blue_calx on May 22, 2007, 06:50:00 AM
QUOTE(gerzand @ May 22 2007, 02:29 AM)
thanks but that site is asking for a login and password
Post by: ryanworrell on May 22, 2007, 06:54:00 AM
QUOTE(Xbox-Scene @ May 21 2007, 11:19 PM)
We also got information C4E is working on an "iXtreme Online" FW for Toshiba-Samsung drives, a Hitachi-LG version and maybe even BenQ version might follow later.
The new FW will have less features than the current Xtreme FWs: no single-layer (DVD5) support, no ripping of games (0800 mode), but more features to safely play from burned discs (emulate the exact speed and timings of the original games) and prevent booting from un-safe discs (without PFI and DMI or bad SS - so discs not passing the 'Stealth Check' (using Xbox Backup Creator()(<a href="http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox360-tools/XboxBackupCreator.php">info) for example) are not going to boot on the new firmware), or images that aren't exact dumps of the original.
There's no official ETA (maybe this weekend though for TS drives), and of course no guarantee MS will never ban you based on new checks (that's the risk it takes if you want to be part of the modding community
) The HLG FW will take a bit longer as it'll require true 'Stealth media' etc added.I just ordered my Blaster360 and will wait for this FW to come out before flashing, but can anyone fill me in on how we are supposed to backup or games if there is no ripping supported??
Thanks!
Post by: romm2002a on May 22, 2007, 07:32:00 AM
How would M$ distinguish between a legitimate removal of the drive and a not legitimate removal of the drive?
Or does Microsoft somehow reset that flag when doing repairs on the consoles?
Again, just a thought... im no expert in the field what so ever. just a NooB
Post by: elcazador on May 22, 2007, 07:43:00 AM
Firstly, this is my console. It has a Hitachi Drive 59DJ original firmware. Currently running C4EVA's 2.4 FW.
Secondly, I have gamesaved from 360gamesaves.com for oblivion recently. After the spring update all those gamesaves stopped working.
Thirdly, now this is the important part where i got banned. I was playing Test Drive unlimited and it was Victoria Day here in canada. So i went out for a few hours. I came back to see my TDU game was offline XBOX LIVE. I tried reconnecting didnt work. Called Tech support and they said i have been banned and i didnt know at that time it was the modding ban. Well i would usually say i didnt mod my 360. And they asked me to send it in. Obiously i wont. Damn i spoke to them for 2 hours.!!!
Okay there was some productivity when i spoke to them. Firstly anyone playing Crackdown can download Halo 3 beta regardless Backup/Original. Secondly, E66 and E68 - Dont use external fans like the intercooler and dont split the power in the 360, the intercooler is very noisy, and drains power causing a E66 or E68 because the 360 is unable to have enough power to startup, this could cause your 360 TO BRICK! THIS ISSUE IS NOT COVERED UNDER THE 360 WARRANTY. DO NOT USE ANY EXTERNAL OR INTERNAL POWER SPLITTING DEVICES. Well the thing is that the HITACHI 360 is the most silent 360 of all. Adding the intercooler only makes it more noisy although it does a good job on cooling. Anyways my E66 AND E68 are finally fixed by myself (personal credit).
Lastly, this is how I will fix my ban issue. It may as well be a fix for everyone. You will need a new console to apply this fix! You will have to modchip this new console and you can continue playing game backups. Thats the fix. Please do not use any of C4EVA's or GARYOPA's FW because they do not send the correct response to the MS servers or to the flash memory in the 360. The modchip is successful according to my stats obtained from XS Filter - Do not link to Torrents Sites on xs. ** forums where 0 people out of 100 reported being banned while using the modchip. MS has detected that you have modded the 360 and playing backups because of that response issue. THE MODCHIP is the only solution ATM or if you want to wait for C4EVA to fix the response issue and wait. While even C4EVA says it only appplies the fix on NEW CONSOLES! SO YOU WILL HAVE TO GET A NEW CONSOLE ANYWAY!!!! ~~~~
Sorry about this long post lastly.
Post by: mace1337 on May 22, 2007, 07:48:00 AM
I'm still not banned and I think it's because I havent played alot after the fall update.
Maybe in total 4 hours of play with backups between fall update and spring update.
Now i'm not banned and I think that I'm somehow under the threshold for detection, either that or I'm just not banned YET.
Time will tell.
Post by: Johnwinger on May 22, 2007, 07:18:00 AM
Now after 10s of thousands of people lose their consoles do they even consider a new firmware upgrade.
I'm through modding. Its not worth the risk.
Post by: SomeDudeWhack on May 22, 2007, 07:57:00 AM
QUOTE(Deihmos @ May 22 2007, 02:49 PM)
Opening the console voids the warranty completely so there is no legitimate reason to remove the drive. I don't see why hackers are pushing to allow people to play backups on Live just to get the consoles banned again.
the reason most hackers are hackers..... to "beat the system"...... its a never ending battle.....ex. a hacker working retail job at walmart whos "smarter than your average bear" outsmarts a MS employee getting paid 250k a year for his knowledge............
Post by: romm2002a on May 22, 2007, 07:22:00 AM
QUOTE(Deihmos @ May 22 2007, 02:49 PM)
Opening the console voids the warranty completely so there is no legitimate reason to remove the drive. I don't see why hackers are pushing to allow people to play backups on Live just to get the consoles banned again.
Post by: Nailed on May 22, 2007, 07:38:00 AM
QUOTE(Deihmos @ May 22 2007, 01:57 PM)
That is exactly how i feel. I don't see why they are even bothering with a new firmware just to get more consoles banned. They already achieved their goal in being able to play backups but let the pirates play them offline. I don't see the point of this mod either becuas all it does is help piracy and nothing else.
From a hacker's perspective, the point is because you can. It's the challenge, plain and simple.
Post by: Deihmos on May 22, 2007, 07:41:00 AM
QUOTE(Nailed @ May 22 2007, 10:14 AM)
From a hacker's perspective, the point is because you can. It's the challenge, plain and simple.
yes it is a challenge but in the long run who suffers? People will be selling their banned consoles on Ebay or doing some scam to get them replaced and i am sure the banning will just continue even with a new firmware. it's just more harm than good.
Post by: TripseV on May 22, 2007, 07:43:00 AM
The ban is a punishment, how is it a punishment to let people play another week/month before being banned.
What do they have to gain from waves of bans?
Post by: gerzand on May 22, 2007, 07:50:00 AM
QUOTE(blue_calx @ May 22 2007, 01:26 PM)
thanks but that site is asking for a login and password
Yeah the site must have gotten over-run since last night. Here are some pics I saved while it still worked.
Post by: Xx The 0ne xX on May 22, 2007, 08:08:00 AM
Post by: BlackWaterOp on May 22, 2007, 08:46:00 AM
QUOTE(TripseV @ May 22 2007, 10:19 AM)
I still don't see why MS would ban in waves.
The ban is a punishment, how is it a punishment to let people play another week/month before being banned.
What do they have to gain from waves of bans?
There is an argument to this: M$ would sell more consoles
The counter is: M$ will spend more money issuing updates for the new FW
Either way I am not banned yet and have stopped playing backups alltogether.
I play the H3 Beta everyday for at least an hour and haven't benn banned (knock on wood)
Post by: BEVEL on May 22, 2007, 08:52:00 AM
QUOTE(BlackWaterOp @ May 22 2007, 03:46 PM)
There is an argument to this: M$ would sell more consoles
The counter is: M$ will spend more money issuing updates for the new FW
Either way I am not banned yet and have stopped playing backups alltogether.
I play the H3 Beta everyday for at least an hour and haven't benn banned (knock on wood)
As C4E said, the banning is being doen manually.
So its logic that banning is being done in waves, because there has to be checking and double checking.
Go ahead and play HL3 while you can... and report back when you're banned.
Post by: TripseV on May 22, 2007, 08:55:00 AM
QUOTE(BlackWaterOp @ May 22 2007, 04:46 PM)
There is an argument to this: M$ would sell more consoles
The counter is: M$ will spend more money issuing updates for the new FW
Either way I am not banned yet and have stopped playing backups alltogether.
I play the H3 Beta everyday for at least an hour and haven't benn banned (knock on wood)
How do they sell more consoles depending on when some one gets banned?
Post by: gamemaster14 on May 22, 2007, 08:58:00 AM
Post by: ezmoney on May 22, 2007, 08:59:00 AM
Post by: Ranger72 on May 22, 2007, 09:04:00 AM
QUOTE(chris_mouland3 @ May 22 2007, 08:35 AM)
Can someone answer this?
If a Samsung drive (flashed with the new iXtreme firmware) is put into an xbox 360 that originally had a Hitachi drive (drive is spoofed obviously), would that make the system safer than if the Hitachi was kept? Or have MS found a way of detecting spoofed drives too?
I think someone asked this before, but didnt get a good reply.
Thanks
I have an Elite that had a Hitacki 78 drive that I replaced with a Samsung ms28 and I have not been baned from Live yet.
But then I don't play many backups ether.
Post by: ryanworrell on May 22, 2007, 09:16:00 AM
QUOTE(romm2002a @ May 22 2007, 08:32 AM)
Just a thought, If M$ some how has some detection to detect the DVD drive from ever being disconnected from the motherboard, does this not also apply to consoles that had gone back to M$ for repair?
How would M$ distinguish between a legitimate removal of the drive and a not legitimate removal of the drive?
Or does Microsoft somehow reset that flag when doing repairs on the consoles?
Again, just a thought... im no expert in the field what so ever. just a NooB
I hope this ain't an issue. My xbox was replaced by M$ RMA. Surely they have a way of checking this stuff.
Post by: Obveron on May 22, 2007, 09:23:00 AM
QUOTE(chris_mouland3 @ May 22 2007, 08:35 AM)
Can someone answer this?
If a Samsung drive (flashed with the new iXtreme firmware) is put into an xbox 360 that originally had a Hitachi drive (drive is spoofed obviously), would that make the system safer than if the Hitachi was kept? Or have MS found a way of detecting spoofed drives too?
I think someone asked this before, but didnt get a good reply.
Thanks
I just bought a virgin 360, but it has a hitachi drive
I have a ms25 drive from my banned 360. I would also like to know the possible repercussions of spoofing. I'd like to flash the ms25 with the new ixtreme (when it comes out) and stick it in the vrigin 360. But if spoofing will not be a possibility, then I might aswell return this virgin 360 right now.
Post by: bLiTz 2k on May 22, 2007, 09:43:00 AM
QUOTE(kylec2425 @ May 22 2007, 12:37 AM)
Yes this has indeed been something that has confused many of us, Me personally i think it has to be the fact that it registers some kind of data to the console and microsoft can some how recognize it, AND the media read speed that differs from using a retail disc aside from a back up you made from the disc you own.
I'm strongly looking forward to this new firmware update, and wont have any problem buying another system and testing out the new firmware, i hate microsoft for their dictation on how we use our own hardware that we pay money for, but hey... when you're money hungry you go all out...
Money hungry? Because obviously paying for your software is a ridiculous notion to comprehend...Gotta love people who feel piracy is a right.
Post by: Blank on May 22, 2007, 09:43:00 AM
QUOTE(Johnwinger @ May 22 2007, 08:54 AM)
After losing my console to Microsoft I basicly lost all faith in the modding community. They knew the crap could be seen by Microsoft yet did nothing to prevent.
Now after 10s of thousands of people lose their consoles do they even consider a new firmware upgrade.
I'm through modding. Its not worth the risk.
Oh boo fucking hoo. Seriously, you knew the risks when you decided to flash your console. Period. Don't blame the whole modding community because you're a dumbass. My god...
Post by: redwolf on May 22, 2007, 09:53:00 AM
QUOTE
I still don't see why MS would ban in waves.
The ban is a punishment, how is it a punishment to let people play another week/month before being banned.
What do they have to gain from waves of bans?
their call centres will blow up, imagine how many people will try to call them at once The ban is a punishment, how is it a punishment to let people play another week/month before being banned.
What do they have to gain from waves of bans?
Post by: leon111 on May 22, 2007, 10:05:00 AM
Post by: elcazador on May 22, 2007, 10:12:00 AM
QUOTE(leon111 @ May 22 2007, 12:05 PM)
when c4eva says you cannot power from the 360, does this mean the new xeno top loader i bought is ueless?
Correct. Actually Xeno top gear makes my system freeze. So i cant use it anyway. Plus i like keeping my 360 open. i have no casing on it. keeps it cooler. so i can readily remove the dvd drive to flash it. its upto you. move the big box to your pc or the small drive...
Post by: RuFf rYdA on May 22, 2007, 10:23:00 AM
QUOTE
After losing my console to Microsoft I basicly lost all faith in the modding community. They knew the crap could be seen by Microsoft yet did nothing to prevent.
Now after 10s of thousands of people lose their consoles do they even consider a new firmware upgrade.
I'm through modding. Its not worth the risk.
Now after 10s of thousands of people lose their consoles do they even consider a new firmware upgrade.
I'm through modding. Its not worth the risk.
Im wondering why the scene is getting filled up with arrogant people who dont know anything about the scene
Back in the day there wasnt any of these guys
Post by: antz1970 on May 22, 2007, 10:25:00 AM
Post by: sosotiit on May 22, 2007, 10:25:00 AM
QUOTE
MANY POSTS REMOVED
Many posts removed, sanction served for all
BEFORE POSTING YOU MUST FIRST READ: http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=603855
no discussion on
-no Off topic discussion: this is limited to discussion in IXtreme FW
-discussing Backups on Live
-no use of illegal copies
-no antagonistic posts
-NO THEORIES ON BAN this is the technical section (read the pinned http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=603855 as there is a place for that http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=603700).
-all other rules still applies
Post by: walterg74 on May 22, 2007, 10:30:00 AM
QUOTE(gerzand @ May 22 2007, 03:29 AM)
http://www.kev.nu/360/dvdshort.html
Nice link... too bad it asks for user/pass...
Post by: feflicker on May 22, 2007, 10:42:00 AM
Sure, everyone will concede that way too many people use these hacks for piracy purposes. That is why sites like X-S do not allow those people to post about it, and furthermore will ban these people. These people are not encouraged to be here!
The bottom line is that there is a legitimate reason to backup optical media that you own! As long as this is the case, then there is a need for this modding!
Now, if MS$ would just replace scratched discs for free, then there wouldn't be a legitimate need for a drive hack, then X-S could ban all talks of it, couldn't they
Post by: noobiex2 on May 22, 2007, 10:46:00 AM
QUOTE
If your console is not banned yet, it's highly suggested you don't boot any burned discs, originals should be ok, even when offline (MS might be storing results of some checks in flash), until the release of the new FW.
I understand that this is just a guess on their part, but to make sure isn't there a way to locate and delete these events written to flash? It seems as though this would solve a lot of peoples problems if in fact it is possible.
MS-28 5.2C--Still not banned.
Flashed AFTER connecting to live first time.
Have played backups
Post by: Winchy on May 22, 2007, 10:48:00 AM
QUOTE(feflicker @ May 22 2007, 05:42 PM)
The bottom line is that there is a legitimate reason to backup optical media that you own! As long as this is the case, then there is a need for this modding!
Christmas day, brother bought me all seasons of scrubs for my birthday (same day), half way through season one disc one it starts skipping and ends up with a fat ring around it. Thought to myself 'damn, aint gonna let that happen to my £40 games too'.
Never watched any DVDs on it since.
Damn you MS. Fix your scratched disc error instead of banning everyone haha.
Post by: djxxx on May 22, 2007, 10:50:00 AM
QUOTE(XanTium @ May 22 2007, 04:57 AM)
it's probably possible (some) of these checks are done by the kernel and could be logged into flash ... so even playing burned discs offline is a risk if you don't want to get banned from LIVE.
If these checks are stored, I`m sure its possible to erase so MS see nothing.........
Post by: kylec2425 on May 22, 2007, 10:57:00 AM
Post by: ptnguyen203 on May 22, 2007, 11:01:00 AM
I have a hitachi 59 with the latest 2.4 firmware. after flashing my drive i did the spring update.
All my games are not downloaded. I backed them up from my originals (or my brother's)
I dump the games using the Samsing 16c with the kreon .81 firmware and do 1:1 copies
All my games still plays online just fine. I have been checking it often and still hasnt been banned.
hope it stays that way until new firmware are released.
Post by: Mellow Yellow on May 22, 2007, 11:05:00 AM
does it log onto the hdd or 360 itself
another thing ppl dl gamesaves and get banned so by swapping hdd isnt that really the same??
just my thought
Post by: TerminatR on May 22, 2007, 11:25:00 AM
QUOTE(bonsc2 @ May 22 2007, 10:55 AM)
What happens when you need the new updates to play the latest games.
Lots of games have the updates included right on the DVD, but if you remain up to date on XBL you would never realize this because you never see the checks or the prompts.
For example, Crackdown, TMNT and Need for Speed: Carbon all require the Fall 2006 update to play. If you dont have it, it won't let you play the game (even offline) until you update via the DVD. No internet connection required.
My console is still pre-Fall 2006 update so theres a few games I simply cant play.
In the end, this is how Microsoft will win, once they shut us out completely, and the new games will prompt for an update that will kill the firmware hack (whenever that day comes)
Post by: sephiro499 on May 22, 2007, 11:28:00 AM
You had alot more to gain with the first xbox in terms of modding than you do currently with the 360.
Post by: sosotiit on May 22, 2007, 11:33:00 AM
QUOTE
MANY POSTS REMOVED
Many posts removed, sanction to be served for all
BEFORE POSTING YOU MUST FIRST READ: http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=603855
no discussion on
-no Off topic discussion: this is limited to discussion in IXtreme FW and not a debate on hacking vs piracy
-discussing Backups on Live
-no use of illegal copies
-no antagonistic posts
-NO THEORIES ON BAN this is the technical section (read the pinned http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=603855 as there is a place for that http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=603700).
-all other rules still applies
Post by: mat82284 on May 22, 2007, 11:33:00 AM
QUOTE(TerminatR @ May 22 2007, 05:25 PM)
Lots of games have the updates included right on the DVD, but if you remain up to date on XBL you would never realize this because you never see the checks or the prompts.
For example, Crackdown, TMNT and Need for Speed: Carbon all require the Fall 2006 update to play. If you dont have it, it won't let you play the game (even offline) until you update via the DVD. No internet connection required.
My console is still pre-Fall 2006 update so theres a few games I simply cant play.
In the end, this is how Microsoft will win, once they shut us out completely, and the new games will prompt for an update that will kill the firmware hack (whenever that day comes)
You could always buy a core system and swap your hd drive over to it and update it with the origial discs "which you should have other wise thats illegal" or even better call your friend over and swap you hdd drives and put in the game and do the update!
Post by: TerminatR on May 22, 2007, 11:40:00 AM
QUOTE(mat82284 @ May 22 2007, 06:33 PM)
You could always buy a core system and swap your hd drive over to it and update it with the origial discs "which you should have other wise thats illegal" or even better call your friend over and swap you hdd drives and put in the game and do the update!
I don't think you were quite understanding the concept I was trying to illustrate. The backup copies are able to update the 360 via DVD the same as an original store bought disc can.
For example, I updated to the Spring 2006 dash update with the scene release of Prey as opposed to downloading it from Xbox Live. I have chosen by my own free will not to install the Fall 2006 or Spring 2007 updates. In doing so, I forgo the opportunity to play certain games, but thats my choice.
What I was trying to demonstrate is that with the release of one of these updates, we will be put into a situation where - if you update its Game-Over for the firmware hack. After that point, future games would be protected by including the update on the DVD.
That day hasnt come yet. But how far away are we?
Post by: The Dude on May 22, 2007, 11:45:00 AM
As far as I know there is no law against taking apart a machine that you own, and as far as I know you are not violating xbox live policy by taking apart your machine. You are only voiding the warantee.
Only speculation here...
If MS is logging disconnected dvd drives and using this to ban consoles it is most likely they are using this information in addition to "timing" issues with backup discs. For example they have logs of timing issues from your machine and they have a log of the dvd drive being disconnected then they can be 99.9% sure the console is modified and running backup discs. A disconnected dvd drive error could only indicate say a 10-25% chance of the console actually being modded.
Perhaps MS needs mutiple timing errors (say for example timing errors could be caused by scratched/damaged original games) in conjuction with a disconnected dvd drive disconnect error to deffinitively prove a console is modified. This may explain why some consoles have not been banned at this point.
Post by: ikecomp on May 22, 2007, 12:03:00 PM
QUOTE(Deihmos @ May 22 2007, 09:17 AM)
yes it is a challenge but in the long run who suffers? People will be selling their banned consoles on Ebay or doing some scam to get them replaced and i am sure the banning will just continue even with a new firmware. it's just more harm than good.
this argument is completely mute. the people that work on hacking these systems are sharing their knowledge freely. they are not twisting your, mine or anyone else's hand into modding. if you're interested in what they have to offer from a curiosity and learning standpoint then attempt some of the mods they've released and be happy but don't take the situation and turn it around to make it seem like they are bad guys just because people took their knowledge, ran with it like it was the gospel and got banned...nothing you do (modding wise) is 100% fool proof/safe...the sooner some of you realize that...the better off the scene will be.
Post by: gerzand on May 22, 2007, 12:10:00 PM
QUOTE(walterg74 @ May 22 2007, 04:30 PM)
Nice link... too bad it asks for user/pass...
Look at pg. 7 of this thread. I posted the pics there because the link is now pass protected.
Post by: hydrasworld on May 22, 2007, 12:20:00 PM
QUOTE(bonsc2 @ May 22 2007, 11:55 AM)
Ive ever played on live with my originals or backups the only time i ever used live was to download the odd demo and at them time update my 36 so whats the chances of a ban.What happens when you need the new updates to play the latest games.
you don't NEED updates to play the games - You just can't connect to live to play them if they've not been updated. This is fine if you've already been banned as you couldn't connect up anyway. And if you've not been banned you've got no problem
Post by: Tsmith10803 on May 22, 2007, 12:34:00 PM
To anyone who is banned- You all knew the risks, take it like an adult, you had a good run, and you still have a functioning xbox 360. You can do what you want with your hardware, which is why they didn't stop you from playing backups, but when you enter their network, their territory, it's their rules. So, they are more than allowed to prohibit you from going onto xbox live. You whining doesn't help anything. Be thankful you got this far.
To anyone who isn't banned- Once again, just consider yourselves lucky. Who knows if we (Currently unbanned) will get banned. If we do, we have to act just like how I said above. Nobody knows for sure what's going to happen to everyone, but, I'm sure we'll all find out.
Everyone has a right to be pissed, but hell, what we were doing was against the xbox live TOS, they have a right to stop us.
Post by: LesserEvil on May 22, 2007, 12:43:00 PM
So in this case, use the power connector described earlier (Page 7), something built for it, or use a Kreon for backing up your discs.
I think the idea that Microsoft is using a combination of factors is probably the most likely, since some of the checks, individually, would dragnet innocent users, too. Another factor here would be Microsoft's trend of only taking action against modders DIRECTLY using Live with backups...
I have to wonder, however, without the GoW hacks from Team Exo, if all of this would have been moot. Until then the "integrity" of Live was not an issue since the executables are signed, as are many resources. Once they proved that you could "cheat" on live using hacked backups, the hammer of Microsoft was bound to come down with a vengeance.
A pox on the cheaters of Team Exo!!
/Hates playing cheaters online
Post by: Altima NEO on May 22, 2007, 01:08:00 PM
Post by: handles25 on May 22, 2007, 01:18:00 PM
MS25 Xtreme 5.2d
Never played a backup online, have not been playing anything much the last month or two (play on live about once every three months). Thinking about it I have never played a game online with hacked firmware.
all Kreon backups
Never ran the shader disk hack
Never used hacked saves
Still not banned.
I think the reason they throw in the part about disconnecting the drive, is to help explain why nonmodded systems got banned.
Refurbished 360 playing scratched discs/crappy replacement drive that has been opened at least once. Thats multiple checks failed. Banned. I kind of doubt they are logging the disconnection, but anything is possible.
Post by: wilcox69 on May 22, 2007, 01:34:00 PM
QUOTE(romm2002a @ May 22 2007, 08:32 AM)
Just a thought, If M$ some how has some detection to detect the DVD drive from ever being disconnected from the motherboard, does this not also apply to consoles that had gone back to M$ for repair?
How would M$ distinguish between a legitimate removal of the drive and a not legitimate removal of the drive?
Or does Microsoft somehow reset that flag when doing repairs on the consoles?
Again, just a thought... im no expert in the field what so ever. just a NooB
There is no reason M$ would have to power on the 360 without the DVD drive connected. They would just install a new drive and set the key.
Jim
Post by: bi0hacker on May 22, 2007, 01:50:00 PM
Is it widely believed that a person would get banned for changes to the firmware? (checksum changes)
Post by: bob10 on May 22, 2007, 01:53:00 PM
Post by: handles25 on May 22, 2007, 01:55:00 PM
QUOTE(bi0hacker @ May 22 2007, 08:50 PM)
Alright. What if a person isn't banned and has a modded firmware already?
Is it widely believed that a person would get banned for changes to the firmware? (checksum changes)
God knows. This is something I will be gunnie pigging. Although you sound like you are on track (ie the people that flashed back to original FM after not being banned and boom, banned)
Post by: g8crapachino on May 22, 2007, 02:00:00 PM
QUOTE(pvolk @ May 22 2007, 06:13 AM)
And to all you doubters: MS will eventually get tired of patching their security holes that get exploited by C4E and Gary... after all we always have the not so sneaky "NEW FIRMWARE AVALIABLE" warning from MS when they are adding new features(adding security fixes).
Why would they get tired of it? Where is the logic in your assumption? There is probable a group or team of employees at Microsoft working on security and if one person gets "tired" he moves on and Microsoft just hires a new person. The company as a whole is not ever going to tire of protecting their products...the day that happens would be the same day Microsoft stops selling Xbox's altogether.
Reverse the roles and think about it from the other point of view. Who's going to fill in for C4E and Gary when they run out of hacking ideas? Everytime they find a security hole, Microsoft will probable fill it. It's inevitable that eventually there soon may not be any exploits or security holes left to take advantage of.
Post by: THAHAQQ on May 22, 2007, 02:11:00 PM
Post by: handles25 on May 22, 2007, 02:20:00 PM
QUOTE(THAHAQQ @ May 22 2007, 09:11 PM)
Aww damn... why this have to come out on the spur of the HALO3 Beta.
Thats MS's MO. Hell, if I were them I'd be pretty entertained with the situation (I think they like to put a little salt in the wound and honestly I respect that). They banned a huge wave of Xbox 1 users on or around Nov 9th when Halo 2 was released. If a person were smart (those who don't remember the past...) anyone who wanted to firmware mod would have waited untill this or the Halo 3 release date to pull the trigger. But hey I didn't practice what I'm preaching, so perhaps this advice should come from someone who didn't mod before the beta.
Post by: skforty on May 22, 2007, 02:31:00 PM
I still cant help but get a little nervous when it comes to updating my firmware to the new one this weekend. I should feel more confident, if i believe everything. But changing something, makes me apprehensive.
oh, and GREAT work to C4EVA, fuzzylogic, The specialist, garyopa, and everyone else who is sacrificing time, money, and hard work. Thanks everyone, its a fun game.
Post by: kyle939 on May 22, 2007, 02:39:00 PM
Thanks for 'some' usefull posts, most are some argueing. But I have a flashed Hitachi drive an playing on XBOX LIVE, so far it's all good, I have only tested one game in the the xbox.
Does anyone know what I should do, I don't wanna get banned but I also don't wanna get the xbox re flashed back to default. What if I unplug XBL? will it work ok.
If I get banned, it completes locks the xbox out don't it, so I can't play on the thing full stop, or is it just Xbox live, cause me friend actually has just been banned an that's when I come here an read about the post.
Thanks in advanced.
Post by: Billkwando on May 22, 2007, 02:49:00 PM
QUOTE(Blank @ May 22 2007, 04:43 PM)
Oh boo fucking hoo. Seriously, you knew the risks when you decided to flash your console. Period. Don't blame the whole modding community because you're a dumbass. My god...
I've had my gamertag since the beta days, so I knew better than to flash. I follow the whole thing because it interests me (I have a modded X1 as well), but I'm not messing up my ability to play on Live. I respect those who were brave enough to try.
Post by: simpace on May 22, 2007, 02:49:00 PM
QUOTE(kyle939 @ May 22 2007, 10:39 PM)
If I get banned, it completes locks the xbox out don't it, so I can't play on the thing full stop, or is it just Xbox live, cause me friend actually has just been banned an that's when I come here an read about the post.
Thanks in advanced.
You should have read the other posts first, You will just get banned from Xbox live, you will still be able to play backups offline.
Post by: silentbob343 on May 22, 2007, 02:54:00 PM
QUOTE(XanTium @ May 21 2007, 11:57 PM)
it's probably possible (some) of these checks are done by the kernel and could be logged into flash ... so even playing burned discs offline is a risk if you don't want to get banned from LIVE.
ouch, MS strikes back.
Post by: slunk on May 22, 2007, 03:11:00 PM
Good luck to C4E and rest of the scene with getting to the bottom of this.
Post by: nuke field ET on May 22, 2007, 03:26:00 PM
QUOTE(pvolk @ May 22 2007, 12:13 AM)
And to all you doubters: MS will eventually get tired of patching their security holes that get exploited by C4E and Gary... after all we always have the not so sneaky "NEW FIRMWARE AVALIABLE" warning from MS when they are adding new features(adding security fixes).
Well, I'm tired of doing my job, I'm tired of things breaking all the time and fixing them, so I think I'll just quit.
Post by: omaragha on May 22, 2007, 03:40:00 PM
Whatever FW comes out they will catch up anywho !
How many 360's do peeps wanna keep buying , the majority of the games are shite anyways
Post by: TheIrishLad on May 22, 2007, 03:41:00 PM
QUOTE(nuke field ET @ May 22 2007, 04:26 PM)
Well, I'm tired of doing my job, I'm tired of things breaking all the time and fixing them, so I think I'll just quit.
Owned.
Post by: wow on May 22, 2007, 03:43:00 PM
QUOTE(zal91 @ May 22 2007, 05:03 AM)
Cool, I just traded my un-banned modded Hitachi 360 for my friends un-modded ms28. I should be good to go.
Post by: bLiTz 2k on May 22, 2007, 03:43:00 PM
QUOTE(kyle939 @ May 22 2007, 04:39 PM)
Heya people
Thanks for 'some' usefull posts, most are some argueing. But I have a flashed Hitachi drive an playing on XBOX LIVE, so far it's all good, I have only tested one game in the the xbox.
Does anyone know what I should do, I don't wanna get banned but I also don't wanna get the xbox re flashed back to default. What if I unplug XBL? will it work ok.
If I get banned, it completes locks the xbox out don't it, so I can't play on the thing full stop, or is it just Xbox live, cause me friend actually has just been banned an that's when I come here an read about the post.
Thanks in advanced.
Its probably a good idea to do some reading before you start posting..it helps.
Post by: feflicker on May 22, 2007, 03:49:00 PM
To the haters: We all know modding is dangerous (in gaming terms), and cutting edge at times, so live with the consequences or get out of the game!
Post by: Winchy on May 22, 2007, 03:51:00 PM
The original firmware was made with no idea of whether MS could check anything at all. It seemed to be fine so there was no need to add protection for that stuff. Now they have an idea of what MS are capable of checking and as they don't seem to check the actual firmware being used, once this stuff is fixed it will hopefully be ok from then on (or a long time at least). MS did a combination of checks through logging stuff and manually checking so it seems they don't have much to go on.
360s aren't that expensive. But then, it is your choice.
Post by: KiLL CraZy on May 22, 2007, 03:53:00 PM
The users must have well-taken care of not to flash the drive using the power supply of the unbann console. They should not play games before they leave the region."
what do they mean by use the power supply of the unbann console blah blah? power supply is more what I wanna know wut they are talking about?
I bought my modded 360 elite last weekened from someone on xbox-scene and the 360 is new and never been online form what I know, I havn't been on live b/c im afraid of being banned. But i dont understand what they mean about the drive being flashed with the power supply and what not.
Can someone explain that to me?
Post by: The Dude on May 22, 2007, 03:58:00 PM
QUOTE(KiLL CraZy @ May 22 2007, 10:53 PM)
"We must have some precaution with Xtreme Online?
The users must have well-taken care of not to flash the drive using the power supply of the unbann console. They should not play games before they leave the region."
what do they mean by use the power supply of the unbann console blah blah? power supply is more what I wanna know wut they are talking about?
I bought my modded 360 elite last weekened from someone on xbox-scene and the 360 is new and never been online form what I know, I havn't been on live b/c im afraid of being banned. But i dont understand what they mean about the drive being flashed with the power supply and what not.
Can someone explain that to me?
I think what they mean is, don't use the 360 to power the dvd-rom whil you are trying to flash. They speculate that MS may be able to detect if the xbox was ever powered on without the dvd-rom plugged into the 360 board. If you are going to flash your drive make sure the power source comes from somewhere other than the 360.
Post by: Schnick1 on May 22, 2007, 04:00:00 PM
QUOTE(KiLL CraZy @ May 22 2007, 04:53 PM)
"We must have some precaution with Xtreme Online?
The users must have well-taken care of not to flash the drive using the power supply of the unbann console. They should not play games before they leave the region."
what do they mean by use the power supply of the unbann console blah blah? power supply is more what I wanna know wut they are talking about?
I bought my modded 360 elite last weekened from someone on xbox-scene and the 360 is new and never been online form what I know, I havn't been on live b/c im afraid of being banned. But i dont understand what they mean about the drive being flashed with the power supply and what not.
Can someone explain that to me?
To flash the DVD drive you must connect a SATA cable from the drive to your PC. You must also power teh DVD drive. Many people use the 360 to power the DVD drive while the SATA cable is attached to the PC. This results in the xbox being powered up with no drive attached.
I use a power adapter (and do many others) board that runs off of a molex connector from my PC so that you do not need the 360 to power the drive.
Post by: namgorf on May 22, 2007, 04:01:00 PM
QUOTE(KiLL CraZy @ May 22 2007, 10:53 PM)
I bought my modded 360 elite last weekened from someone on xbox-scene and the 360 is new and never been online form what I know, I havn't been on live b/c im afraid of being banned. But i dont understand what they mean about the drive being flashed with the power supply and what not.
Can someone explain that to me?
they're just talking about unhooking the sata cable and using the xbox itself to power the dvd drive. then hooking the sata cable into your pc for flashing.
also, you wont get banned if you dont play bad copies.
make your own copies (like you should) and use the PFI, DMI, and video stealth and you will not be banned.
Post by: Elemino on May 22, 2007, 04:02:00 PM
QUOTE(Xbox-Scene @ May 21 2007, 11:19 PM)
Another thing they are probably detecting (but probably not using yet to decide to ban or not) and log/flag is if you ever booted your Xbox360 with DVD SATA cable not connected to your Xbox360 (E64).
What if you booted while just fixing the X-Clamp issue? I hope I left it connected... I didn't mod my 360, I just fixed it so I could play my legit games again.
Post by: KiLL CraZy on May 22, 2007, 04:08:00 PM
QUOTE(Schnick1 @ May 22 2007, 06:00 PM)
To flash the DVD drive you must connect a SATA cable from the drive to your PC. You must also power teh DVD drive. Many people use the 360 to power the DVD drive while the SATA cable is attached to the PC. This results in the xbox being powered up with no drive attached.
I use a power adapter (and do many others) board that runs off of a molex connector from my PC so that you do not need the 360 to power the drive.
OOOO ok, yeah, I never flahsed a 360 so I wasn't sure on how it goes so now I see that the drive has to be powered by an outside source while flashing just to be on the safe side instead of using the 360 to power it on. Gotcha, not I gotta get in contact with the guy and see what method he used to flah the drive.
QUOTE(namgorf @ May 22 2007, 06:01 PM)
they're just talking about unhooking the sata cable and using the xbox itself to power the dvd drive. then hooking the sata cable into your pc for flashing.
also, you wont get banned if you dont play bad copies.
make your own copies (like you should) and use the PFI, DMI, and video stealth and you will not be banned.
and is that a fact? b/c all my copies have PFI, DMI and Video all stealth... Can someone else confirm if this is true?
btw i have a hitachi78 with 1.7 on it...
Post by: zal91 on May 22, 2007, 04:12:00 PM
QUOTE(KiLL CraZy @ May 22 2007, 05:08 PM)
OOOO ok, yeah, I never flahsed a 360 so I wasn't sure on how it goes so now I see that the drive has to be powered by an outside source while flashing just to be on the safe side instead of using the 360 to power it on. Gotcha, not I gotta get in contact with the guy and see what method he used to flah the drive.
and is that a fact? b/c all my copies have PFI, DMI and Video all stealth... Can someone else confirm if this is true?
btw i have a hitachi78 with 1.7 on it...
You will not be safe with 1.7.
He is talking about the iXtreme Online firmware.
Post by: groundhog32 on May 22, 2007, 04:20:00 PM
I believe C4E is correct by stating it is a timing issue of the DVD drive, that is how much time it takes for your drive to respond to a command. Microsoft logged this data, if it wasn't with in spec (depending on which drive you had), they banned your console. I also think C4E is on the right track with making code for the FW that has the same reponse time as the original FW. And it wouldn't be a bad idea to do this with the power supplied to your DVD being external from the "untouched xbox 360".
With all that said, I don't think I will be modding another 360. It's just getting to expensive and don't really want to be banned again. Plus I would like more good games to come out for the 360.
Best of luck.
Post by: Deihmos on May 22, 2007, 04:50:00 PM
QUOTE(Solender @ May 22 2007, 06:29 PM)
here's an interesting aspect to throw into the scene;
Been using a modified xbox on xbox silver for about a year, played no games online.
Monday i put my original crackdown dvd into the unit to download the halo 3 beta (and it is a REAL original crackdown disk), play halo 3 for about 20 minutes, today i try and connect and what do you know....banned. never played anything but originals online.
Funny thing is, i bought a xbox gold membership about 3 months ago via pre paid card, only entered the details on monday and two days later i'm banned...nice!.
Your gold sub is still good just that your xbox will never connect to Live again.
Post by: feflicker on May 22, 2007, 04:52:00 PM
QUOTE
Monday i put my original crackdown dvd into the unit to download the halo 3 beta (and it is a REAL original crackdown disk), play halo 3 for about 20 minutes, today i try and connect and what do you know....banned. never played anything but originals online.
What about offline? The hypothesis is that the console flags this (timing issues, etc), whether online or not...
Post by: dbldown768 on May 22, 2007, 05:16:00 PM
Post by: TIME2PLAYDAGAME on May 22, 2007, 05:32:00 PM
Now i gotta sit & twiddle my thumbs til the fw is released
Post by: nunz77 on May 22, 2007, 05:34:00 PM
QUOTE(dbldown768 @ May 22 2007, 07:16 PM)
also, was all of this after the SPRING update?
As it has been said a millions times the spring update has nothing to due with the bans as friends of mine have been banned without this update...period
Post by: TIME2PLAYDAGAME on May 22, 2007, 06:08:00 PM
Post by: dgomes on May 22, 2007, 06:08:00 PM
QUOTE(TIME2PLAYDAGAME @ May 23 2007, 12:32 AM)
I guess i just lucked out....Got a box from BB, manufactured 8-15-06. Opened it up & i've gotta 59DJ
Now i gotta sit & twiddle my thumbs til the fw is released
You don't have to wait for the 59DJ firmware to come out. My box had a 59DJ, too. Get yourself a TS drive (they're easy to find now...) and use 360 FW Toolbox to spoof the drive as a 59DJ.
Post by: uk_dan2k on May 22, 2007, 06:10:00 PM
How many game bootups and restarts do you think it would take to fill up the log files, if they are stored on the xbox.
Before its safe to go back on xbl?
Post by: STICKY_BUD on May 22, 2007, 06:15:00 PM
QUOTE(nunz77 @ May 22 2007, 04:34 PM)
As it has been said a millions times the spring update has nothing to due with the bans as friends of mine have been banned without this update...period
i am pretty sure i understand your statement here...
HOWEVER, since the update was released, your console cannot connect to xbox live without first accepting the update. since the bans did not come until AFTER the update, how is it possible to receive the ban message BEFORE accepting the spring update? did they intend to accept the update and get banned immediately?
i have read elsewhere that the bans can also be caused by exploits, using the live service out of region and internet gamesaves, but still you have to connect to live to receive the ban.
Post by: NookularDeath on May 22, 2007, 06:34:00 PM
QUOTE(ikecomp @ May 21 2007, 10:58 PM)
yep, apparently this is where the information is stored and can be requested by MS (through live) at any time so playing offline with backups will do you no good because the information is still stored whether you're online or not.
so the question would be... where is this information stored until it has time to be send to M$?? Is it on the harddrive?? Is it in a EPROM??
would be interesting to have a firmware that cleared this cached info and inserted the info that M$ is
expecting back...
I for one don't play too many game s online... The only time I signin on Live is to download a movie or game from the arcade..
Post by: Teitoku on May 22, 2007, 06:45:00 PM
QUOTE(Iriez @ May 22 2007, 12:19 AM)
We have been playing backups on live for a year. ...Yes, *a year*. It has taken them a whole year to implement a security, and within 2-3 days we have already discovered and defeated it.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhh no, we haven't. The whole point of this topic was that we do NOT know what basis they're banning on, so how could we have defeated it if we don't even know what TO defeat?
Post by: hecz on May 22, 2007, 06:54:00 PM
QUOTE(xbox-sky @ May 22 2007, 08:45 PM)
Good evening commodore4eva, it is a dream to talk to you.
Thank you very much.
The users are asking if the old Xtreme copies will work with iXtreme.
Xtreme Online will not take backups without stealth, only discs with stealth, PFI and DMI will run.
Do you already know which is the real reason of the bans?
The bans are a manual process, logs are made and are watched. It takes time.
Manual? What is it that they verify exactly?
Many things. Timing and boot-ups without the dvd drive plugged in, like when you flash the dvd drive with the power supply of the console, and some more.
So when we flash the XBOX360 with Xtreme Online we will not be able to do it with the power source of the console?
Correct. Or to do it with a console that is already banned.
On the other hand, will Xtreme Online will be completely secure?
YES
Will Xtreme Online be available for Hitachi drives?
YES
Will it also be available for the drives with firmware v79?
All the Hitachi, including the 79, but it still will be necessary to flash it via hardware.
What about the BenQ drives?
The version for BenQ will be available after the others, almost all the work was finished before the bans started.
Will it be safe for the users to flash with Xtreme Online if they previously flashed with others versions of Xtreme and they have not been banned?
We do not know that, it could happen or it couldnt happen. It could be too late if the user is already in the logs. But when the drive is flashed with Xtreme Online, it would be possible to call Microsoft complaining that the ban was not justified so they dont ban your console and there is no need to buy a new one.
So thanks to Xtreme Online we have a little hope for the ban to be removed?
Apparently yes they re-scan the console if you complain to the SAT.
Briefly, how does the Xtreme Online FW work?
Xtreme Online will emulate the exact speed and timings of the original games, and will protect the users against executing backups without stealth.
We must be careful with Xtreme Online?
The users must have well-taken care of not to flash the drive using the power supply of the unbann console. They should not play games before they leave the region.
Thank you very much for your time.
Something that you'd like to add?
YES look for a release this weekend.
I got this from XBSky
Post by: TIME2PLAYDAGAME on May 22, 2007, 07:03:00 PM
QUOTE(dgomes @ May 22 2007, 07:08 PM)
You don't have to wait for the 59DJ firmware to come out. My box had a 59DJ, too. Get yourself a TS drive (they're easy to find now...) and use 360 FW Toolbox to spoof the drive as a 59DJ.
Anyways, why would i wanna switch drives when the new fw is for both TS & Hitachi? Plus, maybe ill set off a flag by doing that. Im currently playing my games on the banned system. So im good til this new one comes out & ill use the banned one to flash & make a whole new acct.
Post by: tankertux on May 22, 2007, 07:35:00 PM
I know this is off of the motherboard, but anyone with half a brain can trace the power and ground wires from the motherboard pins to the dvd drive connector and make their own power adapter to use off of an ATX power supply. I think you'll need a resister to simulate 3.3v off of an ATX adapter, but you might use a PicoPSU to achieve the same results. If you don't feel like rigging your own cable header to fit the DVD drive, llamma.com sells replacement dvd power cables.
Hope this helps someone and I hope I didn't miss a previous post that says the same thing!
Post by: telo{+} on May 22, 2007, 07:36:00 PM
I'll be first in line for a new firmware no doubt. But, I have little confidence that the xbox is recording powered on without a sata cable plugged it.
I know for a fact that prior to the spring update I booted the console without the sata plugged in (flashed to 5.3 and forgot to plug it back in), took awhile but eventually it booted to dash and the option was there to 'open tray'. I am still unbanned.
The french guy who boots with no drive plugged in b/c he lost the key for it, he seems to be online just fine.
Can anyone (except for what C4E said) confirm 100% that this is true ? I mean, I must have 20 or 30 of these fault conditions recorded b/c it took awhile to get the bad flash method to work.
Thats only thing I could possible add of use to this thread..... which would be nullified if perhaps they started recording no sata connected since the spring update ?
Post by: Obveron on May 22, 2007, 07:43:00 PM
QUOTE(dgomes @ May 23 2007, 01:08 AM)
You don't have to wait for the 59DJ firmware to come out. My box had a 59DJ, too. Get yourself a TS drive (they're easy to find now...) and use 360 FW Toolbox to spoof the drive as a 59DJ.
Will spoofing be supported with the new ixtreme firmware?
Post by: Ralph_Nader on May 22, 2007, 07:48:00 PM
Post by: copter71 on May 22, 2007, 07:51:00 PM
Post by: RiPpN-N-TrIppN on May 22, 2007, 08:22:00 PM
no body knows why and how the bans are taking place
there could be hundreds of diffrent methods too detect if you running a hacked fw
not that i dont have trust in the guys behind the fw but its gonna be funny when ppl have gone out and bought a brand spankin new box only to get banned the followin day
but hey its your money spend it how u want
Rip
Post by: jxoxn21 on May 22, 2007, 08:44:00 PM
Post by: gli7ch on May 22, 2007, 08:50:00 PM
Post by: neodregan on May 22, 2007, 08:54:00 PM
Post by: NookularDeath on May 22, 2007, 09:03:00 PM
QUOTE(gli7ch @ May 22 2007, 09:50 PM)
So Who is interested in homebrew and not backups again?
personally, I'm ready for some serious hacking of the hardware. I'd like to see someone hack the
dash and give people the option to play on non M$ servers..
C4EVA sounds like someone that has direct contact with M$ 360 creators and is getting passed
info on this latest security measure. From what I read he was working on this latest F/W even
before the bans started happening... How the hell did he get that much of a lead time??
There's gotta be some disgruntle employees of M$ that are sick of M$'s BS and are more than
happy to sneak out dashcode. Time will tell..
Post by: kevhonda on May 22, 2007, 09:08:00 PM
I wounder if M$ would release the amount of xbl users vs. the amount of xbl users that are banned hmmm. Good luck guys!
Post by: copter71 on May 22, 2007, 09:09:00 PM
QUOTE(RiPpN-N-TrIppN @ May 23 2007, 03:22 AM)
you have to remember every thing regarding the bans and the new FW is based on 100% speculation
no body knows why and how the bans are taking place
there could be hundreds of diffrent methods too detect if you running a hacked fw
not that i dont have trust in the guys behind the fw but its gonna be funny when ppl have gone out and bought a brand spankin new box only to get banned the followin day
but hey its your money spend it how u want
Rip
100 different methods?! HAH! That's insane! I'd say more like 93
Post by: hecz on May 22, 2007, 10:06:00 PM
QUOTE(gli7ch @ May 22 2007, 10:50 PM)
So Who is intrested in homebrew and not backups again?
yeah man homebrew would be the thing that will make me forget of xbox live, Dreamcast emulation mmmmm
custom dashboard mmmm
Post by: Iriez on May 22, 2007, 10:16:00 PM
QUOTE(blue_calx @ May 22 2007, 08:26 AM)
thanks but that site is asking for a login and password
kev is having site issues, no eta when its back up.
Post by: mat82284 on May 23, 2007, 12:09:00 AM
QUOTE(kevhonda @ May 23 2007, 03:08 AM)
Anyone who had a xbox or even knew someone w/ one around the time Halo 2 was released and has any modification on their drive and considers xbl as an option is crazy. Well crazy if you get mad b/c you have a banned 360, my xbox got banned 3 times after Halo 2 was released of course they were all my fault (forgetting the game was in the drive and going online with the chip not thinking). Luckily hackers knew enough about it to dev. some great tools to fix the problem. Of course this is just the tip of the iceberg once November hits expect to see a lot more banning.
I wounder if M$ would release the amount of xbl users vs. the amount of xbl users that are banned hmmm. Good luck guys!
O i remember those days, I had a beta chip installed in mine and it was nice playing on live at first then all of a sudden bam were banned. I never used live again in till the 360. I belive the reason it didnt bother me was because i could do so much more with my xbox bigger hd, hella games on hd, divx movies, emulation and so on. that was the best system yet, but xbox360 can do so much more if we can get homebrew running. The reason so many people are mad about live is now xbox live is apart of every game made back on xbox it wasnt it was on some. Thats a good reason why live didn't bother many. I feel all the hackers will continue to attact to be on live, its more about the principle and the fact the 360 puts rings around are disc's even movies!
If Microsoft fixed this then thats another story. I can see this new firmware working in till the release of halo 3. I wonder though how much money they will lose from the market place. I doubt they would ever release that info.
Post by: gerzand on May 23, 2007, 12:35:00 AM
QUOTE(telo{+} @ May 23 2007, 01:36 AM)
I know for a fact that prior to the spring update I booted the console without the sata plugged in (flashed to 5.3 and forgot to plug it back in), took awhile but eventually it booted to dash and the option was there to 'open tray'. I am still unbanned.
The french guy who boots with no drive plugged in b/c he lost the key for it, he seems to be online just fine.
Can anyone (except for what C4E said) confirm 100% that this is true ? I mean, I must have 20 or 30 of these fault conditions recorded b/c it took awhile to get the bad flash method to work.
Thats only thing I could possible add of use to this thread..... which would be nullified if perhaps they started recording no sata connected since the spring update ?
Yeah, I am also a believer that this log system did not exist, (at least prior to the spring update) because I also powered on 4 seperate 360 many many many times with no drive connected in my attempts to flash which are still not banned. All have hitachi's by the way and have never played a game that wasnt stealth protected and confirmed with dvd-mulleter.
I wonder if there is any specific evidence to substantiate this claim of logs being made at any point.
Post by: Spider1985 on May 23, 2007, 12:47:00 AM
Its about powering up only!!
Kind regards,
S
Post by: Savaga123 on May 23, 2007, 01:23:00 AM
Post by: hordak on May 23, 2007, 02:32:00 AM
QUOTE(Savaga123 @ May 23 2007, 08:23 AM)
Hey guys....just asking...has anyone put back the original firmware and is not banned yet?
Yes, I didn't go online on the day the banning started. The day after, I restored my original FW and I've been online everyday since, I'm not banned yet...
Post by: neodregan on May 23, 2007, 02:41:00 AM
QUOTE(gerzand @ May 23 2007, 02:35 AM)
Yeah, I am also a believer that this log system did not exist, (at least prior to the spring update) because I also powered on 4 seperate 360 many many many times with no drive connected in my attempts to flash which are still not banned. All have hitachi's by the way and have never played a game that wasnt stealth protected and confirmed with dvd-mulleter.
I wonder if there is any specific evidence to substantiate this claim of logs being made at any point.
What's the easiest way to use an alternate power source for the flashing? Someone posted a guide earlier to make one yourself. But, it said something about a Molex connector and other stuff. I don't understand that at all. Thanks
Post by: eli68 on May 23, 2007, 03:13:00 AM
Post by: Trunks360 on May 23, 2007, 03:31:00 AM
QUOTE(Spider1985 @ May 23 2007, 07:47 AM)
Can you power up a toshiba and Hitachi drive with the Xbox 360 Connectivity Kit v1?
Its about powering up only!!
Kind regards,
S
I want to know that too
Post by: mace1337 on May 23, 2007, 03:53:00 AM
http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hpim1701nj5.jpg
Yeah it's messy but I had a few beers, so circuit layout was not my strongest point.
Anyways, it's based on a LM317 voltage regulator, and I have used a resistor value of 330 and 68 ohms which together gives me 395 (1% tolerance lol) which gives me a nice clean 3,32 volts.
Post by: chemicalthunder on May 23, 2007, 05:30:00 AM
QUOTE(mat82284 @ May 23 2007, 07:09 AM)
I never used live again in till the 360. I belive the reason it didnt bother me was because i could do so much more with my xbox bigger hd, hella games on hd, divx movies, emulation and so on. that was the best system yet, but xbox360 can do so much more if we can get homebrew running. The reason so many people are mad about live is now xbox live is apart of every game made back on xbox it wasnt it was on some. Thats a good reason why live didn't bother many. I feel all the hackers will continue to attact to be on live.
Heres a quote for Y'all - Gone are the days of turning the Paystation into a playstation!
Yeah those were the days! I think the 360 is built for live. I wish I didn't mod mine now. No idea if i've been banned yet as i've got no broadband. If I were to buy a 360 right now there is no way i'd bother modding it. Like many people said on here - its not worth it. There is just not that many games that are amazingly fantastic to bother. I would just buy the games I love and stick with them. PGR3, Forza, Farcry Live and these games would keep me happy :-)
Post by: sosotiit on May 23, 2007, 07:22:00 AM
QUOTE
MANY POSTS REMOVED
Many posts removed, sanction to be served for all
BEFORE POSTING YOU MUST FIRST READ: http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=603855
no discussion on
-no Off topic discussion: this is limited to discussion in IXtreme firmware and not a debate on hacking vs piracy
-discussing Backups on Live
-no use of illegal copies
-no retail fraud discussion (returning an open console)
-no antagonistic posts (telling others they are retard, dumb...)
-NO THEORIES ON BAN this is the technical section (read the pinned http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=603855 as there is a place for that http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=603700).
-all other rules still applies
I just removed almost an entire page of posts, either theories of how the ban is done (should be in thread ^mentionned above^, not here) or post not related to the firmware, and could have removed even more.
Post by: dbldown768 on May 23, 2007, 07:23:00 AM
QUOTE(hordak @ May 23 2007, 03:32 AM)
Yes, I didn't go online on the day the banning started. The day after, I restored my original FW and I've been online everyday since, I'm not banned yet...
So did you restore before the spring update? my question is, i haven't gone on since before the spring update, if i put back everything and then update i'm assuming this is my best bet before finding out what might happen. now i know a ton of people are going to say, thats b.s. i got banned without it and it doesnt matter and all of this, i just wanted to know if someone else would have tried the same scenario.
Post by: ProdigyXP on May 23, 2007, 07:38:00 AM
QUOTE(NookularDeath @ May 22 2007, 11:03 PM)
C4EVA sounds like someone that has direct contact with M$ 360 creators and is getting passed
info on this latest security measure. From what I read he was working on this latest F/W even
before the bans started happening... How the hell did he get that much of a lead time??
I think you're right there. C4EVA sounds fairly certain of himself on a few things. It sure seems as though he has some knowledge that would be extremely difficult to come by without some inside information. I doubt he would make some of his comments so 'matter of fact' if he didn't have some inside scoop. ...which I think is awesome.
I would have taken this whole "boot up X360 without DVD drive attached = logging to flag a potential ban" as pure garbage, until I see who is actually saying it. Now I'm thinking it more than likely is true. I haven't updated or been on Live since prior to the Fall Update (figuring MS was logging starting with the Fall Update), so I felt fairly safe (still knowing none of us are ever totally safe in this game), but since I orignally did maybe 2 or 3 flashes using the 360 PSU - before I got the connectivity kit - who knows. It's good weather now so I'll wait it out until the Fall and see where things get to by then. Thanks in advance to those who will sacrifice their boxes in the meantime for the cause!
Post by: Neo_9000uk on May 23, 2007, 07:42:00 AM
QUOTE(ProdigyXP @ May 23 2007, 02:38 PM)
I think you're right there. C4EVA sounds fairly certain of himself on a few things. It sure seems as though he has some knowledge that would be extremely difficult to come by without some inside information. I doubt he would make some of his comments so 'matter of fact' if he didn't have some inside scoop. ...which I think is awesome.
I would have taken this whole "boot up X360 without DVD drive attached = logging to flag a potential ban" as pure garbage, until I see who is actually saying it. Now I'm thinking it more than likely is true. I haven't updated or been on Live since prior to the Fall Update (figuring MS was logging starting with the Fall Update), so I felt fairly safe (still knowing none of us are ever totally safe in this game), but since I orignally did maybe 2 or 3 flashes using the 360 PSU - before I got the connectivity kit - who knows. It's good weather now so I'll wait it out until the Fall and see where things get to by then. Thanks in advance to those who will sacrifice their boxes in the meantime for the cause!
But if C4EVA had inside info wudn't he have prevented the ban because he would have known what checks M$ were going to use?
Post by: CHdude on May 23, 2007, 07:49:00 AM
QUOTE(Spider1985 @ May 23 2007, 08:47 AM)
Can you power up a toshiba and Hitachi drive with the Xbox 360 Connectivity Kit v1?
Its about powering up only!!
Kind regards,
S
I have the Connectivity Kit v2 and on that u have to put DOWN the Eject Bottom (only need to be up on LGs) and put UP the Mode Bottom (turns it off)! There should not be the red light! But i Blue Light!
Correct me if I'm wrong!
Post by: ProdigyXP on May 23, 2007, 07:49:00 AM
QUOTE(Neo_9000uk @ May 23 2007, 09:42 AM)
But if C4EVA had inside info wudn't he have prevented the ban because he would have known what checks M$ were going to use?
If he had information from his potential source before the bans started, yes. Otherwise he could just be getting information from people who only find out the details after action is already taken. My guess is that a limited number of MS people would be "in the know" on things like this (and security) until absolutely necessary. Of course, maybe he doesn't have any source, and they are using technical means to figure this stuff out.
Post by: Obveron on May 23, 2007, 08:24:00 AM
Post by: MythiK on May 23, 2007, 08:56:00 AM
Please Please Please!!!
I have Connectivity Kit v1 and i dont success using enable 0800 dvd to re-flash my ms25.
So i need to use the 10sec method, but i need to reboot my ms25 for this...
Please! How do you do to reboot your drive with tour CKv1???
Thanks all!
Post by: Neo_9000uk on May 23, 2007, 09:07:00 AM
QUOTE(MythiK @ May 23 2007, 03:56 PM)
Hello,
Please Please Please!!!
I have Connectivity Kit v1 and i dont success using enable 0800 dvd to re-flash my ms25.
So i need to use the 10sec method, but i need to reboot my ms25 for this...
Please! How do you do to reboot your drive with tour CKv1???
Thanks all!
What the hell?! wrong thread...
Post by: ikecomp on May 23, 2007, 09:26:00 AM
QUOTE(ProdigyXP @ May 23 2007, 08:38 AM)
I think you're right there. C4EVA sounds fairly certain of himself on a few things. It sure seems as though he has some knowledge that would be extremely difficult to come by without some inside information. I doubt he would make some of his comments so 'matter of fact' if he didn't have some inside scoop. ...which I think is awesome.
I would have taken this whole "boot up X360 without DVD drive attached = logging to flag a potential ban" as pure garbage, until I see who is actually saying it. Now I'm thinking it more than likely is true. I haven't updated or been on Live since prior to the Fall Update (figuring MS was logging starting with the Fall Update), so I felt fairly safe (still knowing none of us are ever totally safe in this game), but since I orignally did maybe 2 or 3 flashes using the 360 PSU - before I got the connectivity kit - who knows. It's good weather now so I'll wait it out until the Fall and see where things get to by then. Thanks in advance to those who will sacrifice their boxes in the meantime for the cause!
if you read the article on the news page, it says that most of the theories that him and other modders have come up with came from testing out the machine. at this point, he doesn't know exactly how MS is detecting and banning people...he basically just going through the different ways they could be detecting modded consoles
Post by: MythiK on May 23, 2007, 09:26:00 AM
QUOTE(Neo_9000uk @ May 23 2007, 04:07 PM)
What the hell?! wrong thread...
not exactly... before i can do this with the power of the 360, with iXtreme C4E highly suggest to stop this.
Because of iXtreme and C4E i ask this question
Post by: Antman1 on May 23, 2007, 09:37:00 AM
QUOTE(MythiK @ May 23 2007, 04:26 PM)
not exactly... before i can do this with the power of the 360, with iXtreme C4E highly suggest to stop this.
Because of iXtreme and C4E i ask this question
I posted questions on this thread: http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=604586# about the Xecuter Connectivity Kit v1.2 there..
Post by: MythiK on May 23, 2007, 09:45:00 AM
QUOTE(Antman1 @ May 23 2007, 04:37 PM)
I posted questions on this thread: http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=604586# about the Xecuter Connectivity Kit v1.2 there..
Thanks you i just read it but there is no my answer...
I post my issue there! thx!
Post by: mrtvgame on May 23, 2007, 09:50:00 AM
QUOTE(ikecomp @ May 23 2007, 11:26 AM)
if you read the article on the news page, it says that most of the theories that him and other modders have come up with came from testing out the machine. at this point, he doesn't know exactly how MS is detecting and banning people...he basically just going through the different ways they could be detecting modded consoles
And let's face it, there are only so many ways for them to do checks. Their options are not infinite. He is simply looking at data and trying to resolve what he can with the firmware. From the data discussions in that group they do know that for sure SS, DMI are being checked. The new firmware is trying to address that those checks will respond correctly and appropriately. Amazing work really and much appreciated.
Post by: Deihmos on May 23, 2007, 10:16:00 AM
QUOTE(mrtvgame @ May 23 2007, 11:50 AM)
And let's face it, there are only so many ways for them to do checks. Their options are not infinite. He is simply looking at data and trying to resolve what he can with the firmware. From the data discussions in that group they do know that for sure SS, DMI are being checked. The new firmware is trying to address that those checks will respond correctly and appropriately. Amazing work really and much appreciated.
I wonder how many people will risk being banned with another firmware. I know I wouldn't since connecting to live is more important than playing backups.
Post by: DarrenR on May 23, 2007, 10:19:00 AM
Post by: rgtaa on May 23, 2007, 10:21:00 AM
Post by: sjorsw on May 23, 2007, 10:29:00 AM
QUOTE(magic_man185 @ May 22 2007, 05:49 AM)
so if we were lucky enough to not get banned, but have previously played burned disks, then we should not even play backups offline? Because of possible detection by kernel?
What about when i didnt go on XboxLive since the spring-update (and thus didnt update)?
Post by: newfie4ever on May 23, 2007, 10:31:00 AM
Cant wait to try it out..
Post by: xsirxx on May 23, 2007, 10:33:00 AM
QUOTE(Deihmos @ May 23 2007, 05:16 PM)
I wonder how many people will risk being banned with another firmware. I know I wouldn't since connecting to live is more important than playing backups.
Well I for one have to go out and buy another WSOP 2007 because mine is totally scratched to hell and I cant play a backup of it. Very annoying but atleast the game can be had for 19.99$. But by all means annoying, I backup every single audio disc and only listen to the backups. I dont understand why this isnt allowed... there should be some sort of initiative that microsoft could allow certain backups that are made off of owned discs to be played with somehow checking that the original is owned or registered with them. Annoying.
Post by: Deihmos on May 23, 2007, 10:42:00 AM
QUOTE(xsirxx @ May 23 2007, 12:33 PM)
Well I for one have to go out and buy another WSOP 2007 because mine is totally scratched to hell and I cant play a backup of it. Very annoying but atleast the game can be had for 19.99$. But by all means annoying, I backup every single audio disc and only listen to the backups. I dont understand why this isnt allowed... there should be some sort of initiative that microsoft could allow certain backups that are made off of owned discs to be played with somehow checking that the original is owned or registered with them. Annoying.
The only way that would happen is if console games begin to work like Pc games where you use a serial key to activae them. I don't see consoles going down that road either. It's not hard to not scrach a disc...
Post by: rgtaa on May 23, 2007, 10:53:00 AM
If this is the case, could you post link to the right product to buy.
Thanks
Post by: ikecomp on May 23, 2007, 11:01:00 AM
QUOTE(DarrenR @ May 23 2007, 11:19 AM)
I'm willing to try it just because. C4E has done excellent work, I trust his judgement on these things.
yeah, I bought a 360 off ebay with the 3ROLD (sticker intact) that I plan to fix and use to test out C4E's new firmware...that way I won't waste a brand new console if it still gets banned
funny thing is I haven't really been playing my 360 much lately but I'm intrigued by this whole cat and mouse game....plus it gives me reason to tryout a new tool set I bought
Post by: newfie4ever on May 23, 2007, 11:04:00 AM
http://www.divineo.com/cgi-bin/div-us/zz-36-psucomb.html
Post by: kreeeee on May 23, 2007, 11:52:00 AM
QUOTE(newfie4ever @ May 23 2007, 06:04 PM)
This is what you are looking for I think.
http://www.divineo.com/cgi-bin/div-us/zz-36-psucomb.html
No, he wants the xecutor connectiviyt kit where you can power the 360's drive froma molex connector.
Post by: xsirxx on May 23, 2007, 12:03:00 PM
QUOTE(Deihmos @ May 23 2007, 05:42 PM)
The only way that would happen is if console games begin to work like Pc games where you use a serial key to activae them. I don't see consoles going down that road either. It's not hard to not scrach a disc...
I believe yer right here. That wouldnt be bad btw to only have to register if you want more protection for yer game. Atleast its not a bad option, without requiring people to do it.
Also it may not be hard to scratch a disc for you, but I do have friends and more than 1 game I play. That means switching out the discs often and friends switching out the discs often(sometimes not placing them where they should have). Accidents do happen.
Also note that all my son's dvds are backuped on my HD. I replace his discs atleast 1 disc a week. That would cost me a fortunes if I gave him the bought copies and had to rebuy every time it skipped.
Post by: NookularDeath on May 23, 2007, 12:26:00 PM
or perhaps I've passed over a thread that specifically says that someone
with a core got banned..
where is this checkcode being stored at?? sounds to me it's on the HD..
doesn't sound practical to store these checks in some NVRAM. Then again
maybe that's what M$ is doing...
Post by: Antman1 on May 23, 2007, 12:49:00 PM
QUOTE(NookularDeath @ May 23 2007, 07:26 PM)
so I've not seen anyone with a core unit with modified F/W getting banned...
or perhaps I've passed over a thread that specifically says that someone
with a core got banned..
where is this checkcode being stored at?? sounds to me it's on the HD..
doesn't sound practical to store these checks in some NVRAM. Then again
maybe that's what M$ is doing...
Friend had a core and got banned
Post by: RuFf rYdA on May 23, 2007, 12:51:00 PM
QUOTE
Another thing to keep in mind when stealthing the firmwares:
MS could inject a fake challenge in the CR sequence, If the drive responds normally, it is obviously detectable.
I explain this with challenge type 1:
When the drive receives a challenge type 1, it's instructed to read 8 bytes from a particular sector on the disc.
The first 4 bytes should be equal to 4 bytes received in the challenge data. If this is the case, then the next 4 bytes will be send back in a response to the Xbox.
Problem is, currently there is no check if this data matches. (for Hitachi FW) It is assumed the Xbox will send the correct challenge data.
Something to remember when designing the iXtreme online fw for Hitachi.
MS could inject a fake challenge in the CR sequence, If the drive responds normally, it is obviously detectable.
I explain this with challenge type 1:
When the drive receives a challenge type 1, it's instructed to read 8 bytes from a particular sector on the disc.
The first 4 bytes should be equal to 4 bytes received in the challenge data. If this is the case, then the next 4 bytes will be send back in a response to the Xbox.
Problem is, currently there is no check if this data matches. (for Hitachi FW) It is assumed the Xbox will send the correct challenge data.
Something to remember when designing the iXtreme online fw for Hitachi.
Post by: NookularDeath on May 23, 2007, 01:24:00 PM
QUOTE(Antman1 @ May 23 2007, 01:49 PM)
Friend had a core and got banned
yeah but did he have a hard drive plugged in??
Post by: blue_calx on May 23, 2007, 02:53:00 PM
Post by: ikecomp on May 23, 2007, 03:25:00 PM
QUOTE(blue_calx @ May 23 2007, 03:53 PM)
Doesn't the Xbox 1 have the same dvd power connector? Couldn't we use that for external power to the xbox 360 drive when we flash?
no, the power connector in the 360 is completely different
Post by: Kalabaza on May 23, 2007, 03:34:00 PM
QUOTE(blue_calx @ May 23 2007, 03:53 PM)
Doesn't the Xbox 1 have the same dvd power connector? Couldn't we use that for external power to the xbox 360 drive when we flash?
The first xbox has a normal ATX connector (4 pins, 5 and 12 volts and 2 grounds). That wouldn't work.
I have one friend that conects the drive to his computer, but I don't know where did he get the connector?
Post by: RuFf rYdA on May 23, 2007, 03:36:00 PM
QUOTE
I have one friend that conects the drive to his computer, but I don't know where did he get the connector?
You have to get the molex converter
Like the one that comes in the x360 usb kit
Post by: sdeens on May 23, 2007, 03:47:00 PM
"MS could inject a fake challenge in the CR sequence, If the drive responds normally, it is obviously detectable."
....that is exactly right and something I mentioned in another thread; moreover, C4eve has stated he plans to remove DVD5 support for playing XBOX1 backups...he is NOT sure which direction to go (or at least publically there is NO mention of it yet) and this back and forth approach to what is and what is NOT supported in his next firmware is very dangerous. The ban is no joke and it will continue many many MANY more times in the future...probably every 6 months since MS's "signal integrity" division needs time to write the code and beta test it properly so there is no collateral damage...plus it takes time to record these logged events..blacklisting is a time consuming process for Sattelite TV providers and the evidence suggest its the same with MS's XBL system.
I suggest he needs to rethink this decison for DVD5 support of XBOX1 games, since many many testers have already converetede their original XBOX libararies into the newere DVD5-xtereme v5.0+ format so they can be played in the XBOX360...the latest XBC v2.4 and v2.5 perform the conversion properly with full STEALTH protection, also latest DVDMulleter beta 7 does this as well.
this means the backdoor is left open to a potential "fake" C/R or other similar approach that checks so to see if the users eventually inserts a "rebuilt" XBOX1 backup for DVD5 play back....
I guarantee this will happen alot...humans make mistakes..and its an easy one to make.
the key word here is: "eventual"
they could easily incorporate that C/R into the next fall update 2007...and its more than likely people will inadvertantly or accidently insert such a 'rebuilt' xbox1 game and thi coulds trigger the malicious log command and thus will contribute to their next round of blacklisting or XBL bans...it will be just another screening tool...
look, he provided support for this method..if he removes it now it will open up another whole can of worms for detection via the "fake C/R' tetchnique correctly mentioned above this thread...
alot of people will get flagged that way, all because they accidently inserted the "rebuilt" XBOX1 gfame for DVD5 compliance with the currently used xtreme v5.0+ firmwares...
he needs to "beef up" that support for XBOX1 backups on DVD5 media so its passes all stealth checks and other C/R type of checks that he deems appropriate...but NOT to eliminate it altogether.
if he in fact removes it you better place those "rebuilt" XBOX1 DVD5 games in a safe place far away from your XBX360...once accidently inserted thius will trigger the attack potentially.
I saw Dishnetwork perform a similar spoofing attack against the sattellite TV acces cards.....the usage oif fake code is a normal way of playing the cat + mouse game, from the Providers standpoint.
he wants to put the genie back in the bottle..but its too late for that, and too many XBOX1 game libararies have already been "rebuilt" thansks to the efforts of XBC v2.4 and v2.5 and DVDMulleter beta 7...which are the defacto standards for building our libaray of backups...
Post by: TIME2PLAYDAGAME on May 23, 2007, 03:58:00 PM
Post by: Schnick1 on May 23, 2007, 04:02:00 PM
QUOTE
QUOTE(blue_calx @ May 23 2007, 03:53 PM)
Doesn't the Xbox 1 have the same dvd power connector? Couldn't we use that for external power to the xbox 360 drive when we flash?
QUOTE(Kalabaza @ May 23 2007, 04:34 PM)
The first xbox has a normal ATX connector (4 pins, 5 and 12 volts and 2 grounds). That wouldn't work.
I have one friend that conects the drive to his computer, but I don't know where did he get the connector?
Actually, the original XBOX DOES use the same power cable/connector for the dvd drive as the 360 (atleast xbox v1.6 does). However, the power and eject signals may be different. So your best bet is to pick up a Team Xecuter Connectivity Kit.
Post by: wellmodded on May 23, 2007, 04:49:00 PM
QUOTE(Schnick1 @ May 23 2007, 06:32 PM)
Actually, the original XBOX DOES use the same power cable/connector for the dvd drive as the 360 (atleast xbox v1.6 does). However, the power and eject signals may be different. So your best bet is to pick up a Team Xecuter Connectivity Kit.
so u are saying tht the xbox 1 con't power the 360 drive?? has any tested it
Post by: Schnick1 on May 23, 2007, 05:58:00 PM
QUOTE(wellmodded @ May 23 2007, 05:49 PM)
so u are saying tht the xbox 1 con't power the 360 drive?? has any tested it
No, All I'm saying is that the cable and connectors are identical. The key is whether or not the original xbox pinouts are the same as the 360's. With a little bit of searching i'm sure you could find the pinouts for both and see if they are identical
Post by: pu1se on May 23, 2007, 06:09:00 PM
Then recently, the day of the F/W release, cracked it open and installed the 5.3a f/w. Then, again tested with a single game and backup. Those are the only times any discs had been put in up to this point and it was never taken on live. Now, with my ms25 with 5.3a banned, I decided to flash my ms28 back to orig.bin and switched to using it on live with my originals.
I'm guessing I've been playing on live with the second console since the day after the banhammer cracked down with no issues... but now I read I'm possibly not out of hot water yet... bust...
I'll post again if I get a z code ::knocks on wood::
Post by: ewok666 on May 23, 2007, 06:22:00 PM
QUOTE(sdeens @ May 23 2007, 10:47 PM)
"MS could inject a fake challenge in the CR sequence, If the drive responds normally, it is obviously detectable."
I suggest he needs to rethink this decison for DVD5 support of XBOX1 games, since many many testers have already converetede their original XBOX libararies into the newere DVD5-xtereme v5.0+ format so they can be played in the XBOX360...the latest XBC v2.4 and v2.5 perform the conversion properly with full STEALTH protection, also latest DVDMulleter beta 7 does this as well.
DVD5 backups are a nice idea but if there is ANY additional risk then it's a total waste of time and should be removed. A DL DVD costs less then $4....not much compared to the original it may save.
I could not care less about DVD5 backups......
Post by: jayce0481 on May 23, 2007, 06:53:00 PM
Post by: hazed69 on May 23, 2007, 07:06:00 PM
is there a comfirmation on ms beeing able to know if indeed you are using back ups off line
Post by: mirko on May 23, 2007, 07:55:00 PM
Post by: kero on May 23, 2007, 08:39:00 PM
QUOTE(Xbox-Scene @ May 21 2007, 11:19 PM)
Another thing they are probably detecting (but probably not using yet to decide to ban or not) and log/flag is if you ever booted your Xbox360 with DVD SATA cable not connected to your Xbox360 (E64).
Is booting your xbox360 as per normal, wait for it to boot and check for the dvd-rom, and then popping out the SATA cable doable??
Post by: ikecomp on May 23, 2007, 09:32:00 PM
QUOTE(mirko @ May 23 2007, 08:55 PM)
The bans are for breaking the terms of service for Live so surely Microsoft couldn't ban you for just playing backups offline...?
they can ban you for playing on live with a modified console....whether or not you have a backup in the tray while playing on live is completely irrelevant
Post by: cmac0351 on May 23, 2007, 09:37:00 PM
Sorry if this is already mentioned. I just can't find the time to read all 17 pages
Post by: nub on May 23, 2007, 11:13:00 PM
QUOTE(XanTium @ May 22 2007, 05:25 AM)
if the FW is released, the binary is available for anyone ... do you really think MS doesn't have the right people to analyze it? We aren't telling anything MS can't find out themselves.
QFT
Post by: syntaxerror329 on May 23, 2007, 11:17:00 PM
QUOTE(Schnick1 @ May 24 2007, 12:58 AM)
No, All I'm saying is that the cable and connectors are identical. The key is whether or not the original xbox pinouts are the same as the 360's. With a little bit of searching i'm sure you could find the pinouts for both and see if they are identical
I just checked. They are very differnt.
Post by: kreeeee on May 24, 2007, 03:10:00 AM
The connectivity kit v2 has an adapter to use a molex power cable from your PCs power supply and it had an on/off switch.
Hope that helps
Post by: ewok666 on May 24, 2007, 04:55:00 AM
QUOTE(kreeeee @ May 24 2007, 10:10 AM)
For the guy asking about PC power:
The connectivity kit v2 has an adapter to use a molex power cable from your PCs power supply and it had an on/off switch.
Hope that helps
Good thing I have a dead 360 motherboard here.......3 ROL and the warranty sticker removed so nowhere else to go. This will be my DC adapter for flashing ;-))))
Post by: malbowsier on May 24, 2007, 06:16:00 AM
QUOTE(xboxer360 @ May 22 2007, 10:33 AM)
hmm i think the checks implemented at the moment have something to do with kreon rips vs ms28 rips. I have flashed close to 100 drives and most people have been banned. Of those games earlier on I ripped them using my ms28 on my xbox and the rest with the kreon drive. One of my mates who only plays a few select games which happen to be ripped from the ms28 happens to not be banned. garyopa himself said that kreon rips aren't safe so people that are not banned are you using ms28/ms25 rips only or kreon ones also?
My mate has a ms25 with extreme 5.3 (spoofed to ms25 and flashe AFTER the spring dashboard update) and only rips with KREON and xbc2.5. NOT BANNED while I am with my 078fk
......
Post by: Schnick1 on May 24, 2007, 09:04:00 AM
QUOTE
QUOTE(Schnick1 @ May 23 2007, 06:58 PM)
No, All I'm saying is that the cable and connectors are identical. The key is whether or not the original xbox pinouts are the same as the 360's. With a little bit of searching i'm sure you could find the pinouts for both and see if they are identical
QUOTE(syntaxerror329 @ May 24 2007, 12:53 AM)
I just checked. They are very differnt.
The only difference is that the original xbox used yellow wires. The 360 uses black wires. Other than that the dvd drive power/eject cables are identical
Post by: cartervt2k on May 24, 2007, 09:44:00 AM
QUOTE(ewok666 @ May 24 2007, 07:31 AM)
Good thing I have a dead 360 motherboard here.......3 ROL and the warranty sticker removed so nowhere else to go. This will be my DC adapter for flashing ;-))))
I have one too, though I'm missing the heatsink for the the CPU. I was thinking of getting another heatsink or jerry-rigging another one on there, but even if I were to just leave it as is and fry the cpu, do you think it'll still power up the board?
Post by: rgtaa on May 24, 2007, 09:13:00 AM
Post by: telo{+} on May 24, 2007, 09:43:00 AM
QUOTE(rgtaa @ May 24 2007, 04:49 PM)
Do you think that MS would be able to log DVD drive (e64) not connected to 360 prior to fall update? I was hoping after the fall update is when they started logging dvd power removal. I have a 360 that doesn't have fall or spring update on it.
Prior to the spring update anyone who has an MS28 who had trouble with the bad flashing method would have easily racked up at least 20-30 of these no sata connected conditions. Like me..... and I'm still unbanned. So either they started recording it prior to spring and they don't care, or they just started recording lately.
I have a feeling that booting with no sata cable is OK at least prior to spring update.... I mean, I have done it and I know for a fact it boots right to dash on my box. (No error code at all, it just takes a bit to boot)
A faulty or non responsive dvd drive / sata bridge on an unmodified drive could cause this error. So its not a 100% fool-proof ban method.
As someone else said; I would be interested to know if its better to boot to dash then unplug. Although due to sata's hot swapping nature I would think there is a cyclic interval of the drive reporting its still there or the host asking "hey, you still connected? yea? ok good.... hey, you still connected ? yea ok good...". So while it might have worked on IDE, probably not on sata.
Maybe this is all to sell more conectivity kits ?
I think I'll just modify and xbox 1 cable, or just made a male header that goes into the 360 cable, so the cable remains intact,
Post by: sosotiit on May 24, 2007, 09:50:00 AM
QUOTE
MANY POSTS REMOVED
Many posts removed, sanction to be served for all
BEFORE POSTING YOU MUST FIRST READ: The Spring 2007 Ban Thread, !!!Do not post!!!on this without reading FIRST
no discussion on
-no Off topic discussion: this is limited to discussion in IXtreme firmware and not a debate on hacking vs piracy
-discussing Backups on Live
-no use of illegal copies
-no retail fraud discussion (returning an open console)
-no antagonistic posts (telling others they are retard, dumb...)
-NO THEORIES ON BAN this is the technical section (read the pinned The Spring 2007 Ban Thread as there is a place for that I Been Banned? SPRING 2007, Theories, News).
-all other rules still applies
I just removed almost another entire page of posts, theories of how the ban is done (should be in thread ^mentionned above^, not here) or post not related to the firmware, and could have removed even more.
Just as well transfer of HDisk is not related to firmware, here is not general discussion of the BAN, that is ^^other thread ^^, discuss &*?&&% theories there
Post by: rgtaa on May 24, 2007, 09:56:00 AM
I have been hearing elsewhere that if you don't plug in video cable you have 5 minutes to flash drive before turn-off.... so you can flash using 360 power supply ... which should be fine with m25/28. This doesn't not produce the e64 log, because no kernal is activated. So, we can still use the 360 power supply , as long as video cable is not hooked up (5minute window). Coming from very good source.
Post by: Schnick1 on May 24, 2007, 11:29:00 AM
QUOTE(rgtaa @ May 24 2007, 11:32 AM)
Thanks for the reply.
I have been hearing elsewhere that if you don't plug in video cable you have 5 minutes to flash drive before turn-off.... so you can flash using 360 power supply ... which should be fine with m25/28. This doesn't not produce the e64 log, because no kernal is activated. So, we can still use the 360 power supply , as long as video cable is not hooked up (5minute window). Coming from very good source.
This may work fine (without logging) but you had better work fast when flashing because if the power did shut off (after 5 min.) while flashing the drive you WILL BRICK your drive. Just a heads up!
Post by: wellmodded on May 24, 2007, 11:50:00 AM
Post by: Schnick1 on May 24, 2007, 12:55:00 PM
QUOTE(wellmodded @ May 24 2007, 01:26 PM)
so does any now how your can build a molex connection to power the 360 drive
This has been mentioned several times. Look back on page 7 of this thread, there is a diagram showing what you need.
Post by: TIME2PLAYDAGAME on May 24, 2007, 03:36:00 PM
Post by: BoNg420 on May 24, 2007, 05:13:00 PM
KEEP IT ON TOPIC
Post by: mrPMP on May 24, 2007, 06:43:00 PM
Post by: Nailed on May 24, 2007, 08:58:00 PM
QUOTE(Schnick1 @ May 24 2007, 06:05 PM)
This may work fine (without logging) but you had better work fast when flashing because if the power did shut off (after 5 min.) while flashing the drive you WILL BRICK your drive. Just a heads up!
I came so close to doing that once! Didn't realize the video cable wasn't plugged in and the 360 shutdown about 2 seconds after the flash finished. Heed this warning!
Post by: gymguy on May 24, 2007, 09:17:00 PM
This may work fine (without logging) but you had better work fast when flashing because if the power did shut off (after 5 min.) while flashing the drive you WILL BRICK your drive. Just a heads up!
I came so close to doing that once! Didn't realize the video cable wasn't plugged in and the 360 shutdown about 2 seconds after the flash finished. Heed this warning!
And if you dont finish the flash within 5 minutes can the drive be saved via the bad flash method ? (samsung only)
Post by: Trunks360 on May 24, 2007, 09:21:00 PM
QUOTE(gymguy @ May 25 2007, 04:17 AM)
QUOTE(Schnick1 @ May 24 2007, 06:05 PM)
This may work fine (without logging) but you had better work fast when flashing because if the power did shut off (after 5 min.) while flashing the drive you WILL BRICK your drive. Just a heads up!
I came so close to doing that once! Didn't realize the video cable wasn't plugged in and the 360 shutdown about 2 seconds after the flash finished. Heed this warning!
And if you dont finish the flash within 5 minutes can the drive be saved via the bad flash method ? (samsung only)
Also is it really exactly 5 min so that i can use a stopwatch?
Post by: rgtaa on May 25, 2007, 07:52:00 AM
10 second method on m25/28 ... 30 seconds start to finish.
I don't see a problem!
Post by: syntaxerror329 on May 25, 2007, 08:04:00 AM
QUOTE(Schnick1 @ May 24 2007, 04:40 PM)
The only difference is that the original xbox used yellow wires. The 360 uses black wires. Other than that the dvd drive power/eject cables are identical
Yeah, I know the damn cable is the same. We were talking about the pinout.
In other words you could not power a xbox 360 dvd drive by connecting it to a xbox 1 motherboard.
Post by: mace1337 on May 25, 2007, 09:07:00 AM
QUOTE(rgtaa @ May 25 2007, 03:52 PM)
5 minute shut off with video cable NOT plugged in ... I timed it.
10 second method on m25/28 ... 30 seconds start to finish.
I don't see a problem!
The problem is human stupidity, and Murphy's law, both closely related.
And as Albert Einstein so aptly put it:
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not certain about the universe."
Post by: MythiK on May 25, 2007, 09:19:00 AM
Post by: DarrenR on May 25, 2007, 09:37:00 AM
Post by: Biablo on May 25, 2007, 10:11:00 AM
Post by: hordak on May 25, 2007, 10:54:00 AM
QUOTE(Biablo @ May 25 2007, 05:11 PM)
Anyone know if an unbanned 360 can play originals on live and not get banned?
Well that works for me, but if they have logged people then its just a matter of time.
Post by: jayce0481 on May 25, 2007, 01:59:00 PM
Post by: mace1337 on May 25, 2007, 02:16:00 PM
QUOTE(jayce0481 @ May 25 2007, 09:59 PM)
anyone ever tried tradeing consouls with a freiend who is banned calling m$ telling them you bought a used counsol from a flea market or some thing and playing the dumb role asking way it won't connect to live i'm willing to bet that they can remotely reset the consouls they would have to. think about this sanerio for a second everone thats selling there banned consouls to poor unspecting people and you would end up being that person i highly dout m$ will just turn around and say your shit out of luck in that case. but once reset im sure what every caused the flag to go up in the first place will be sent rite back up again example booting without drive connected or playing a burned game thats ripped wrong and i highly dout that there detecting firmware changes it self there's to many errors that could happen in this dectection method n huge company like M$ isn't that dumb i hope. just a thought to possibly try
Here: ..............,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Some comma's and points, you seem to have run out.
To comment on your idea, I think it will NOT be so easy to unban consoles.
MS is probably going to screw you by saying that it is the risk you've taken by buying second-hand stuff.
Post by: yamdankee on May 25, 2007, 02:30:00 PM
QUOTE(jayce0481 @ May 25 2007, 08:59 PM)
i highly dout m$ will just turn around and say your shit out of luck in that case.
I don't.
(And for God's sake would you put at least a little effort into spelling and grammar?)
Post by: gymguy on May 25, 2007, 02:49:00 PM
QUOTE(mace1337 @ May 25 2007, 04:16 PM)
Here: ..............,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Some comma's and points, you seem to have run out.
To comment on your idea, I think it will NOT be so easy to unban consoles.
MS is probably going to screw you by saying that it is the risk you've taken by buying second-hand stuff.
QUOTE(yamdankee @ May 25 2007, 04:30 PM)
I don't.
(And for God's sake would you put at least a little effort into spelling and grammar?)
First off this is not English class so everyone that is complaining about grammar can just stop now! Also to the guy with the idea about calling MS and straight up lying to them to try and get back on live, You knew the risk when you opened the 360 and this site does will not condone this kind of post. With more post like that you will not only be banned from xbox live but also from this site!
Post by: mace1337 on May 25, 2007, 03:04:00 PM
QUOTE(gymguy @ May 25 2007, 10:49 PM)
First off this is not English class so everyone that is complaining about grammar can just stop now! Also to the guy with the idea about calling MS and straight up lying to them to try and get back on live, You knew the risk when you opened the 360 and this site does will not condone this kind of post. With more post like that you will not only be banned from xbox live but also from this site!
This is not english class, but why should I care about what people post, when they refuse to put in the slightest bit of effort in order to make a post that is acutally readable?
Sure people make mistakes, and english is not everybody's native language, but using caps, and a little interpunction never killed anybody.
It's very simple: If you want people to take the time to read it, you should take the time to type it.
Post by: *Ricey* on May 25, 2007, 03:31:00 PM
QUOTE(Iriez @ May 22 2007, 07:19 AM)
NME is banned aswell. Anyone who uses a non-stealth backup (and NME style SS is *very* detectable) will be banned eventually.
NME is deffo banned cus mine's nme 1,2 and thats finished with live
Post by: zal91 on May 25, 2007, 03:58:00 PM
QUOTE
May 24
About an hour ago commodore4Eva posted that on IRC to the #fw channel on Efnet. Once done of course, heÂ’ll need to test it. the following are key questions answered, and comment that Commodore4eva was able to provide. IÂ’ve removed anything not related to c4evaÂ’s comments, and in some cases altered the post order to make it more readable tying Questions to their Answers as provided by c4eva.
(07:56:09) (+c4eva) fw is 95% done, one section to go, then testing begins
(08:00:42) (+c4eva) going from 5.3 to iXtreme was a code massacre! but much more secure and safe for all
(08:01:54) (diggyz) c4eva: so there will be a hitachi with media stealth aswell?
(08:02:01) (+c4eva) yes
(08:02:47) (Mangoo) is spoofing going to be possible with the new firmware ?
(08:03:38) (+c4eva) mangoo:spoofing is always more of a risk
(08:03:42) (ak47) so c4eva the new firmware will only play games if they are stealthed? what about my non stealthed burns they are waste?
(08:04:00) (+c4eva) ak47:yes, or use on old fw
(08:04:06) (tech_) am i better off using a hitachi rather then spoofing a sammy to a hitachi?
(08:04:41) (+c4eva) tecK:ok at present
(08:06:14) (+c4eva) the bannings has certainly made all those who doubted stealth very quiet
(08:06:09) (baphomet) c4eva: will you support the older style firmware, or are you going to move on to maintaining the live-capable firmware?
(08:07:18) (+c4eva) baphomet:live only
(08:09:59) (tech_) c4eva: your opinion on the subject matter? I have virgin xb360.. with hitachi and brand new samsung driveÂ… should i just wait on your new fw for hitachi or should i swap/spoof and use sammy fw?
(08:10:36) (+c4eva) tech:no i would stay with the sammy for now
(08:12:53) (+c4eva) helo:we are getting daily logs now of live disk checks
(08:13:50) (+c4eva) so we will know from now on if anything changes in disk checks
(08:15:16) (heloWorld) c4e: with this foul swoop of banning, are you anticipating a quickish response from ms, or do you believe youÂ’ve got the bases completely covered ?
(08:15:45) (heloWorld) c4e: i mean, nobody has a crystal ball, but it sounds like youÂ’ve nearly got backups replying exactly the same as originals when stealthed correctly
(08:16:03) (+c4eva) heloworld:it will take some time i think
(08:15:39) (jas0nuk) c4e do microsoft have a way of detecting spoofed drives?
(08:16:43) (+c4eva) jas0nuk:yes, it is more risky
(08:16:51) (heloWorld) c4e: well if it is in fact true that ms arenÂ’t detecting alterations in the firmware directly, sounds like this iXtreme will give people a good run on live b4 m$ come up with another detection method
(08:17:58) (+c4eva) helo:yes, a long time i hope, MS are running out of options
(08:20:32) (HolyRoses) c4eva: any ideas why some are banned and others not?
(08:21:08) (+c4eva) holy:stealth disks
(08:21:53) (Antman_) c4eva: How would we know if any backups have corrupted ss.bin or dmi or pfi? is it possible to check this on the disc. As I saw mentioned some ripped with other drives than samsung are not correct
(08:22:31) (+c4eva) antman:yes iXtreme will not boot these
(08:29:36) (+c4eva) my only regret was not ENFORCING stealth earlier, would have saved many sammys
(08:33:14) (+c4eva) there comes a point, hopefully with iXtreme, that there are no more options left for detection, or too risky for MS
(08:34:25) (+c4eva) now that we have gone done the secure path, it actually makes it easier and clearer
(08:34:35) (|sanchez|) c4eva i got a question for you or anyone else on the legal aspects of this TOS and Firmware modding, because i have heard a lot of discussion people saying M$ cant legally Brick a 360 if its modded ? any insight ?
(08:35:23) (+c4eva) sanchez:inncorrect, error 66
.fin
From http://hsdemonz.xbox-scene.com/
Post by: tankertux on May 25, 2007, 04:27:00 PM
Post by: cartervt2k on May 25, 2007, 04:36:00 PM
Post by: nuke field ET on May 25, 2007, 04:38:00 PM
QUOTE(mace1337 @ May 25 2007, 02:16 PM)
Here: ..............,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Some comma's and points, you seem to have run out.
lmao
owned
Post by: MythiK on May 25, 2007, 05:15:00 PM
C4E says that stealth patched disks is the difference between banned and not banned.
What is the best according to you, keep 5.3D or reflash with ixtreme?
Post by: kreeeee on May 25, 2007, 05:32:00 PM
QUOTE(MythiK @ May 26 2007, 12:15 AM)
My samsung is running x5.3D and not banned. I've used ONLY stealth patched disks.
C4E says that stealth patched disks is the difference between banned and not banned.
What is the best according to you, keep 5.3D or reflash with ixtreme?
I'd reflash since the firmware is stealthed MS should not detect the change. With the new firmware you should be protected somewhat from dodgy discs which are patched incorrectly.
Post by: zal91 on May 25, 2007, 05:34:00 PM
QUOTE
c4eva: morning
c4eva: one routine to go
c4eva: bad ss will also now not boot, eg hitachi dumps
c4eva: also hitachi is being worked on now
c4eva: one routine to go
c4eva: bad ss will also now not boot, eg hitachi dumps
c4eva: also hitachi is being worked on now
Around 6:30PM Central Time -6:00
In IRC
Post by: MythiK on May 25, 2007, 05:49:00 PM
With a little test its very simple i think... if too long in average it's mean you are running a hack firmware in slow speed -->ban!
Post by: baghnah on May 25, 2007, 06:34:00 PM
Post by: thebutcher on May 25, 2007, 06:50:00 PM
Post by: baghnah on May 25, 2007, 07:16:00 PM
Post by: lukebe on May 26, 2007, 12:31:00 AM
QUOTE(MythiK @ May 26 2007, 09:15 AM)
My samsung is running x5.3D and not banned. I've used ONLY stealth patched disks.
C4E says that stealth patched disks is the difference between banned and not banned.
What is the best according to you, keep 5.3D or reflash with ixtreme?
I'm a little confused about the whole stealth patched disks.
From what I understand stealth media for the sammy firmware was introduced back in like version 3.
Why would it matter what extraction method you use if the firmware is controlling stealth media?
You said you only used stealth patched disks so what method is that?
I use the Schtrom/Kreon setup and I read contracting posts if this works correctly. Can someone confirm?
Post by: mrjkwik on May 26, 2007, 01:01:00 AM
Post by: Logi7 on May 26, 2007, 02:51:00 PM
i have an old 46 Hitachi, took it offline 2 weeks before the dashboard update - You think if i boot up ~100 original games that would 'clear' the flash memory of any backups being played? lol
Post by: edrock200 on May 26, 2007, 03:08:00 PM
Post by: skidude2121 on May 26, 2007, 03:55:00 PM
Post by: bebrewer1 on May 26, 2007, 05:16:00 PM
QUOTE(skidude2121 @ May 26 2007, 04:55 PM)
People were talking about the xbox kernel logging if you were playing backups or not even if your offline. Does anyone know if the xbox kernel from the fall update would log these things or if it only just started since the spring update.
It has nothing to do with the fall or spring update. MS was checking to see if you had a backup disk in your drive whether you were connected to Live or not. Only consoles that have been using stealthed backups are not banned at this moment. I don't think anyone is sure when they started checking for this but it doesn't matter if you were using your backup for Live or offline. If you had a non-stealth backup = banned console.
Post by: 4n2t0 on May 26, 2007, 06:59:00 PM
QUOTE(bebrewer1 @ May 26 2007, 07:16 PM)
It has nothing to do with the fall or spring update. MS was checking to see if you had a backup disk in your drive whether you were connected to Live or not. Only consoles that have been using stealthed backups are not banned at this moment. I don't think anyone is sure when they started checking for this but it doesn't matter if you were using your backup for Live or offline. If you had a non-stealth backup = banned console.
How do we know this for sure? How would this explain unmodified units being banned? When the new firmware gets released I will test that theory. I took the update before the bans started and disconnected after it was completed. I think MS is looking at more than we anticipate, maybe the new firmware won't even work. They'll likely get it right eventually but there are to many questions and not enough answers (yet). I'll reserve judgment for now.
This post has been edited by 4n2t0: May 27 2007, 02:02 AM
Post by: jpast45 on May 26, 2007, 07:02:00 PM
1)my xbox 360 has been banned, does anyone know if there is going to be something in the future that can "UNban" my xbox? just wondering, not expecting any miracles
2)If i put MY 360 hard drive into a friend's (not modded, not banned) 360, to update my gamerscore and go to the marketplace, is there a possibility of his getting banned? dont wanna screw him over for no reason.
thx
Post by: mrjkwik on May 26, 2007, 07:13:00 PM
QUOTE(jpast45 @ May 26 2007, 09:02 PM)
I've got a couple questions that might be dumb or already answered somewhere, but here goes:
1)my xbox 360 has been banned, does anyone know if there is going to be something in the future that can "UNban" my xbox? just wondering, not expecting any miracles
2)If i put MY 360 hard drive into a friend's (not modded, not banned) 360, to update my gamerscore and go to the marketplace, is there a possibility of his getting banned? dont wanna screw him over for no reason.
thx
1) no, not at this time.
2) He should be fine, since its your box that gets banned, not your account.
Post by: pure_bluff on May 27, 2007, 02:33:00 AM
Anything 4.0 and above is based on an MS28 - either on a 28 or spoofed as a 25.
Post by: mace1337 on May 27, 2007, 04:30:00 AM
QUOTE(ewok666 @ May 27 2007, 12:24 PM)
I have used non-stealth disks (yes, my own lazyness) disks before and after the spring updat. Obviously I will not be doing this any longer and I will re-do my backups.
I am NOT banned at this stage but I have NEVER played on live.
Same here, I've played oblivion, of which my copy is not stealthed (no video and no PFI/DMI) AFTER the spring update.
Totalling 10 hours or so (bloody addictive game that is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) )
NOT banned. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
This post has been edited by mace1337: May 27 2007, 11:31 AM
Post by: bob10 on May 27, 2007, 07:34:00 AM
(+c4eva) getting the timing right for c/r, everything else is done, hang in there!
Post by: *razor on May 27, 2007, 07:38:00 AM
QUOTE(bob10 @ May 27 2007, 03:34 PM)
c4e said this just 5 mins ago on irc
(+c4eva) getting the timing right for c/r, everything else is done, hang in there!
cool, so the Firmware will be released today? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Post by: bob10 on May 27, 2007, 07:40:00 AM
<bob10> c4e, how long do you think it will take to complete c/r?
<c4eva> bob10:not long, coded solution, testing now
Post by: baghnah on May 27, 2007, 07:44:00 AM
QUOTE(pure_bluff @ May 27 2007, 09:33 AM)
They are pre-spoofed then.
Anything 4.0 and above is based on an MS28 - either on a 28 or spoofed as a 25.
NO, in the makefirmware.bat command in all of c4e's releases, you can choose to either make the drive report as ms25 OR ms28. they are pre spoofed if you make your firmware with xtreme boot maker though.
This post has been edited by baghnah: May 27 2007, 02:45 PM
Post by: sosotiit on May 27, 2007, 07:59:00 AM
read and understand your risk
also note some reading on stealth Tutorial: How To Verify Media Stealth,(DMI, PFI, Video Partition, Samsung SS) )
Post by: wans on May 27, 2007, 07:59:00 AM
QUOTE
<wan5> another quick question for C4EVA.. the new samsung fw, is it based on ms28 or ms25?
<c4eva> wan5:ms28
<bob10> c4e, how long do you think it will take to complete c/r?
<c4eva> bob10:not long, coded solution, testing now
<XerionX> c4eva: you just said you were working on timings bout 4 mintues ago, did you just complet it then that quickly?
<c4eva> xerionx:no ,been testing all afternoon, for best solution
<lollerska> c4eva: any banned consoles yet? (of your own)
<c4eva> none
<ruffrydaz> c4e : do you think samsungs will be more safe than hitachis with ixtreme?
<c4eva> ruff:almost the same, sammy has firmguard, hitachi will have safecode (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) both will be stealth disk
<c4eva> wan5:ms28
<bob10> c4e, how long do you think it will take to complete c/r?
<c4eva> bob10:not long, coded solution, testing now
<XerionX> c4eva: you just said you were working on timings bout 4 mintues ago, did you just complet it then that quickly?
<c4eva> xerionx:no ,been testing all afternoon, for best solution
<lollerska> c4eva: any banned consoles yet? (of your own)
<c4eva> none
<ruffrydaz> c4e : do you think samsungs will be more safe than hitachis with ixtreme?
<c4eva> ruff:almost the same, sammy has firmguard, hitachi will have safecode (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) both will be stealth disk
Post by: xbox360sexual on May 29, 2007, 01:15:00 PM
QUOTE(manh @ May 29 2007, 08:39 PM)
If all these are true, and when the new iXTREME firmware does come out. We upgrade to the new firmware then connect to live, whats stopping M$ from using their previously collected data from the log and start banning the systems? Does the new firmware have a feature to block from the previous detection's banning?
No. The f/w can't stop you from getting a ban, it can only help prevent you from getting detected playing backups. If m$ choose to ban you they'll do it by banning your ConsoleID remotely, nothing at all to do with f/w.
Post by: abduln22 on May 29, 2007, 02:43:00 PM
I hope I dont get banned. But it I do Ill take one for the team
so no one else try it until I respond
Post by: *razor on May 29, 2007, 02:43:00 PM
When is confirmed Release Date???
Post by: taximan89 on May 29, 2007, 02:49:00 PM
Post by: the soul poet on May 29, 2007, 02:55:00 PM
QUOTE(*razor @ May 29 2007, 10:19 PM)
damn need this new Firmware! Its really Hard to be offline and dont play Gears of War @Live.
When is confirmed Release Date???
quote from garyopa:
As for the "iXtreme", the TS drive version is under going private beta testing, and is looking good,
and the Hitachi drive is being finished up, and I trying to get the flashing finished for the Hitachi
and BenQ drives, and "c4eva" is helping out finishing the Hitachi now with others, and then the
BenQ drive is next, which is very much like the TS drive, so that will not take long.
Post by: TIME2PLAYDAGAME on May 29, 2007, 03:00:00 PM
QUOTE(the soul poet @ May 29 2007, 04:31 PM)
quote from garyopa:
As for the "iXtreme", the TS drive version is under going private beta testing, and is looking good,
and the Hitachi drive is being finished up, and I trying to get the flashing finished for the Hitachi
and BenQ drives, and "c4eva" is helping out finishing the Hitachi now with others, and then the
BenQ drive is next, which is very much like the TS drive, so that will not take long.
Post by: the soul poet on May 29, 2007, 03:15:00 PM
QUOTE(TIME2PLAYDAGAME @ May 29 2007, 10:36 PM)
If the TS fw is taking 2-3days already for the beta testers to evaluate, you best believe we wont see the hitachi fw out in the open, til next week.
a=At the end of day do you want them to rush and bring it out not ready?
Post by: mrjkwik on May 29, 2007, 03:57:00 PM
QUOTE
(6:00:38 PM) c4eva: soon, preparing xbm and such
Post by: testerx on May 29, 2007, 03:59:00 PM
I say lets cheer them on Go team Go
Post by: klewan on May 29, 2007, 04:33:00 PM
so keep up the testing!!
i don't mind about a few days more, still waitin for my xectuer connectivty thingy :-) just preparin all for iXtreme :-D
Post by: poopsickle on May 29, 2007, 04:56:00 PM
if i dont have a connectivity kit can i use a different banned console to power the unbanned xboxs drive?
Post by: OriginalCompGeek on May 29, 2007, 05:15:00 PM
QUOTE(poopsickle @ May 29 2007, 07:32 PM)
something with this "logging when unplugged sata cord" idea
if i dont have a connectivity kit can i use a different banned console to power the unbanned xboxs drive?
Yes
Post by: MPA on May 29, 2007, 05:15:00 PM
QUOTE(poopsickle @ May 30 2007, 12:32 AM)
something with this "logging when unplugged sata cord" idea
if i dont have a connectivity kit can i use a different banned console to power the unbanned xboxs drive?
Sure can dude! Saves a couple of quid on a connectivity kit (mine's in the post on its way to me now, god bless ebay)
Post by: telo{+} on May 29, 2007, 06:01:00 PM
Personally, I think MS used every trick they had when the bannings started, or at least the ones they felt acceptable to use. That is, if MS is checking the response time then why not ban people for it right now ?
Perhaps they formulated a two stage assault ? Perhaps they figured ok, we'll hit them for reasons A-D, then give them some time to react, then release the hounds on reasons D-Z. There by making an already fearful situation for some into a disaster.
I doubt they are that organized. From my experience with large projects at large companies the level of sharp attacks and organization diminishes greatly.
Its very possible that the legion of the unbanned (I'm a charter member myself) will get screwed updating to the newer-safer firmware. But, I think its unlikely.
Then again, I imagine it is fully possible for MS to send commands to your xbox via live asking to do things that were not included in the update... ie: new checks
I think it'll be fine. I'll wait while the tons of you that have no patience will hop on right away letting me know if its safe... So, it will be fine for me at least
Post by: TIME2PLAYDAGAME on May 29, 2007, 06:20:00 PM
Post by: telo{+} on May 29, 2007, 06:23:00 PM
Post by: apw100 on May 29, 2007, 06:25:00 PM
Post by: TIME2PLAYDAGAME on May 29, 2007, 06:40:00 PM
QUOTE(telo{+} @ May 29 2007, 07:59 PM)
Go back and read what manh wrote.
Post by: manh on May 29, 2007, 08:40:00 PM
If senario 2 is in effect then there is no point for us to upgrade to the new firmware.
Also, a question someone should ask C4eva when they get a chance to catch him on IRC (I don't go on there) is "Are the testers using brand new systems without any prior firmware mod to test the iXTREME firmware on LIVE, or are the systems they are using to test have been on LIVE with a modded firmware before."
Post by: manh on May 29, 2007, 10:03:00 PM
Post by: PacinoAllstars on May 30, 2007, 05:23:00 AM
QUOTE(manh @ May 30 2007, 05:16 AM)
What I was trying to get at from my previous post was, "will this new iXTREME firmware prevent M$ from using data from our past firmware's behaviour and MAYBE avoid us from being banned from the point of the iXTREME firmware forward" or "will our previous firmware's behaviour still in effective after the new iXTREME have been applied and we are going to see the banhammer"
If senario 2 is in effect then there is no point for us to upgrade to the new firmware.
Also, a question someone should ask C4eva when they get a chance to catch him on IRC (I don't go on there) is "Are the testers using brand new systems without any prior firmware mod to test the iXTREME firmware on LIVE, or are the systems they are using to test have been on LIVE with a modded firmware before."
I suppose testing means they test with different set ups. So that would include brand new boxes and boxes that survived the first wave of banning.
Post by: dareios21 on May 30, 2007, 01:32:00 PM
is there a problem if i try to mod an unbanned console by removing the sata cord way? is this logged somewhere on the console? and maybe has to do with xbl ban?
Post by: solo81 on May 31, 2007, 04:26:00 AM
Post by: wcrov on May 31, 2007, 09:20:00 AM
Post by: xnoelahg on May 31, 2007, 01:30:00 PM
QUOTE(MetalHead06 @ May 30 2007, 03:38 AM)
I have two questions:
1) This question is for Hitachi drives 78 and 79. If you can't use the xbox itself to power the DVD drive, how can I get the drive into Mode B? If I use a connectivity kit, those don't work for the 78 and 79 to get into mode b, and even I use it JUST to power it, and use slax, won't it go out of Mode B once I restart my computer from slax to windows?
2) Will there be a way to test if an images is properly patched with everything it needs, on the PC before burning it to a disc?
Thanks.
Wow, you're the FIRST to ask that ever, ever.
1) C4E stated that 78/79 drives will have to be flashed via the old method (external flash with a programmer)
2) xDVDMulleter7 does that.
Post by: ghettoc401 on May 31, 2007, 03:11:00 PM
QUOTE(xnoelahg @ May 31 2007, 03:06 PM)
Wow, you're the FIRST to ask that ever, ever.
1) C4E stated that 78/79 drives will have to be flashed via the old method (external flash with a programmer)
2) xDVDMulleter7 does that.
Not really, if he is using an external power supply for his drive (not using his pc) then restarting his computer wont mess up mode b. Whether using the xbox to power the drive or the connectivity kit, restarting the computer while a drive is in mode b wont affect it.
Also, you dont have to use an external flash. You can use a firmware toolbox to flash those drives.
Post by: sletje on May 31, 2007, 03:51:00 PM
So in short: is there a difference between the two in how secure you are when you want to test if you've been banned in the meanwhile? This is merely a matter of laziness and not having to flash to 1.0 and back, if you were banned in the meantime but didn't know it. As far as I have been able to read in the countless threads over the weeks up to now, it doesn't seem to matter as long as you use an original? Or does iX 1.0 have other features I may have overlooked that differentiate it from X5.3a etc in that it makes it more secure to test your banned-ness with a retail disc? I understand that banned=banned and all that, just want to check with the minimum of risk if I need to go for iXtreme before checking my bannedness, or if it doesn't really matter as long as you use a retail disc which reports the correct timing values etc anyway. Even if it's already taken me more time to find the answer to this, than it would take to just flash the damn thing and then try it online..
Post by: Wilhelmm on May 31, 2007, 04:06:00 PM
QUOTE(sletje @ May 31 2007, 07:27 PM)
I have been following this whole banning/iXtreme firmware thing in the background for a while now, and one question remains: if you are unsure if you are banned as of this moment (you disconnected the ethernet cable, never signed in to Live since before the spring update etc), would there be an advantage in using iXtreme 1.0 over Xtreme 5.3 when you test your bannedness with an original?
So in short: is there a difference between the two in how secure you are when you want to test if you've been banned in the meanwhile? This is merely a matter of laziness and not having to flash to 1.0 and back, if you were banned in the meantime but didn't know it. As far as I have been able to read in the countless threads over the weeks up to now, it doesn't seem to matter as long as you use an original? Or does iX 1.0 have other features I may have overlooked that differentiate it from X5.3a etc in that it makes it more secure to test your banned-ness with a retail disc? I understand that banned=banned and all that, just want to check with the minimum of risk if I need to go for iXtreme before checking my bannedness, or if it doesn't really matter as long as you use a retail disc which reports the correct timing values etc anyway. Even if it's already taken me more time to find the answer to this, than it would take to just flash the damn thing and then try it online..
I understood that If you want to continue to play backup games use ixtreme 1.0... why? because this frmware just accepts backups same as orginals.. if you have sure that all your backups are "good" there is no difference from the prevous firmware.
About the issue of people dsconnected since the ban start , following the most acceptable theorie there is no dfference log in with 5.3C or iX 1.0 . Because the logs of checks that result in ban are already sent to m$ so the new firmware just MAKE SURE that your backups are fine and arent producing logs that can ban you.. so people that are afraid have 2 option in my opinion:
1 - Enter in live and see if you get banned or not.. if not use iX 1.0 to prevent bad backups.
2 - Wait for more explanations and solutions......
Post by: PacinoAllstars on May 31, 2007, 04:15:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelmm @ Jun 1 2007, 12:42 AM)
I understood that If you want to continue to play backup games use ixtreme 1.0... why? because this frmware just accepts backups same as orginals.. if you have sure that all your backups are "good" there is no difference from the prevous firmware.
About the issue of people dsconnected since the ban start , following the most acceptable theorie there is no dfference log in with 5.3C or iX 1.0 . Because the logs of checks that result in ban are already sent to m$ so the new firmware just MAKE SURE that your backups are fine and arent producing logs that can ban you.. so people that are afraid have 2 option in my opinion:
1 - Enter in live and see if you get banned or not.. if not use iX 1.0 to prevent bad backups.
2 - Wait for more explanations and solutions......
That is not the only difference. It also has accurate timings.
Post by: cartervt2k on May 31, 2007, 04:23:00 PM
Post by: telo{+} on May 31, 2007, 05:17:00 PM
QUOTE(PacinoAllstars @ May 31 2007, 11:18 PM)
I believe "the turn on av cable while no sata is connected will cause ban" is just a myth. You can also change the myth into "What if I power on my xbox while the sata cable from the xbox drive is connected with my pc" this will cause a ban because the drive will know its connected with a pc which means modded.
Myself flashed my ixtreme on the normal way and if I might get banned because of the so called myth Im happy to let you people know I was wrong.
I suggest some more reading and less typing.
The southbridge checks at boot up for the AV cable if its not there the CPU does NOT power up. No CPU - No ban checking.
Also, do you realize you are suggesting that its the same thing as the iX firmware on the drive is keeping track of when its hooked to a pc and then reporting that to the host (cpu) ?
If you boot with no AV cable there is no chance for a ban, its safe..... except for that 5 min limit.
More Read - Less Type esp when YOU are telling people whats a myth and whats not.
Post by: sosotiit on May 31, 2007, 05:33:00 PM
QUOTE(cartervt2k @ May 31 2007, 06:59 PM)
Will Schtrom or XBC stealth check detect bad Hitachi SS extracts or will only the iXtreme firmware tell you what's good and what isn't?
only the fact it does not start in iXtreme, but again one should know how he has made his backup!!!
Further discussion on media stealth in Media Stealth: What is needed and How To Verify, (DMI, PFI, Video Partition, Samsung SS)
-soso
Post by: hardin69 on May 31, 2007, 07:27:00 PM
console had not been on live since a few days before dash update and was running 5.3
update to ixtreme and then tried to connect to live and got told i was banned. so what ever it is banning folks aint in the dash update it's sumin else it would seem but as to what i have no idea
only thing i did do thou was use the xbox to power the drive everytime i flashed. apart from ixtreme where i left the video lead out and powered it that way as read this dont kick the cpu in or sumin.
xbox is now back to 5.3 and old dash still just thought would let folks know
Post by: TIME2PLAYDAGAME on May 31, 2007, 07:32:00 PM
QUOTE(hardin69 @ May 31 2007, 09:03 PM)
i was banned with using ixtreme and no dash update!!
console had not been on live since a few days before dash update and was running 5.3
update to ixtreme and then tried to connect to live and got told i was banned. so what ever it is banning folks aint in the dash update it's sumin else it would seem but as to what i have no idea
only thing i did do thou was use the xbox to power the drive everytime i flashed. apart from ixtreme where i left the video lead out and powered it that way as read this dont kick the cpu in or sumin.
xbox is now back to 5.3 and old dash still just thought would let folks know
Post by: polakis on June 01, 2007, 12:05:00 AM
Post by: hardin69 on June 01, 2007, 03:24:00 AM
Post by: wcrov on June 05, 2007, 07:16:00 AM
Post by: Durrik on June 05, 2007, 07:28:00 AM
QUOTE(telo{+} @ Jun 1 2007, 12:53 AM)
I suggest some more reading and less typing.
The southbridge checks at boot up for the AV cable if its not there the CPU does NOT power up. No CPU - No ban checking.
Also, do you realize you are suggesting that its the same thing as the iX firmware on the drive is keeping track of when its hooked to a pc and then reporting that to the host (cpu) ?
If you boot with no AV cable there is no chance for a ban, its safe..... except for that 5 min limit.
More Read - Less Type esp when YOU are telling people whats a myth and whats not.
I think you should do more reading too. This was proven to not be true by moderators in the #fw on IRC. I believe it might have also been proven false by c4eva. So you need to take your own advice buddy.
Post by: ghettoc401 on June 05, 2007, 11:19:00 AM
QUOTE(Durrik @ Jun 5 2007, 09:04 AM)
I think you should do more reading too. This was proven to not be true by moderators in the #fw on IRC. I believe it might have also been proven false by c4eva. So you need to take your own advice buddy.
So the 5 minute flash w/ no a/v cable was proven not to be safe? If so how come people believe in it?
*Im not trying to argue, im trying to understand.
Post by: sosotiit on June 05, 2007, 11:40:00 AM
QUOTE(Durrik @ Jun 5 2007, 10:04 AM)
I think you should do more reading too. This was proven to not be true by moderators in the #fw on IRC. I believe it might have also been proven false by c4eva. So you need to take your own advice buddy.
What is not true in what he is saying?
-that it can be tracked when the cable is out?
-that E64 error when using the cable can result in a ban?
because the last I heard is that there was no proof that it was (or that it was not) tracked by MS. Nor that they could say if that would be in the future, so nothing wrong by doing it without the cable and not having the E64 logged. It was just not sure it was helping, but certainly not that it was hurting.
do you have more pricise info?
Post by: sosotiit on June 05, 2007, 12:10:00 PM
QUOTE(cypher21 @ Jun 5 2007, 02:19 PM)
That method is not proven, however it is proven that when there;s no AV cable attached, the xbox doesn't boot all the way. So there's a theory the AV cablecheck is performed before the rest of the checks (no sata attached) and IF they log something, they probably log the "not connected AV cable" error instead of the not connected SATA cable error
and since the AV cable is an external cable, their would be no conclusion to be drawn by MS by not having it connected. So it does not seem to hurt not to have it connected,
good
-soso
Post by: Zheez on June 09, 2007, 12:40:00 PM
QUOTE(snowysplosh @ Jun 9 2007, 05:46 PM)
The hitachi stopped going online when i attempted to play my back up Call of Duty 3 call it stupid but straight away i swapped boxes over and put the same backup of Call of Duty 3 in the box signed in straight away and like i say is still going strong on live!!
for how long i have no idea..Basically what iam tryin to point out is the ban sweep seems to have nothing to do with stealth backups as my boxes have proved.
But the current Hitachi firmwares don't have stealth media support, only the Samsung firmwares do, so basically a Hitachi drive playing a backup may as well just not have any PFI/DMI sectors as it won't read them anyway.
Post by: xaudiox on June 09, 2007, 01:22:00 PM
Post by: xnoelahg on June 22, 2007, 12:14:00 AM
Does anybody know what all kernels have the offline PFI checks? Reason I ask, is I have a 4552 kernel, but I may decide to update it one day and take it online.
Post by: flash360 on June 22, 2007, 05:54:00 AM
Im still not banned I didnt think it would be an issue but theres no harm in being as safe as you can.
Post by: Havok on June 22, 2007, 10:38:00 AM
QUOTE(vyse12012 @ Jun 22 2007, 01:00 PM)
if MS are really checking the sata cable ... what happens when your cable stop working ? is that possible ? If so, MS would ban you right away just because you have a faulty console ?
I hardly believe that. Last day my sata cable was loosy and I got the E64 error.. It has been 2 months and I'm not banned yet..
The chances of that happening are VERY slim. The cables are simple to produce and the connectors are very tight.
I don't think MS would ban on that alone.. (IMHO).. But E64 errors and other ancedotal information collected by MS could be used to ban you. Every little thing gives them a clue..
To the guy that says well I gave myself an E64 error and I am not banned... Maybe you aren't banned YET..
As soso stated.. its safer.. so might as well flash with the AV cable unplugged.
Post by: godmachine81 on January 20, 2008, 12:40:00 AM
Post by: IBreaker on August 08, 2008, 07:18:00 AM
So far I didnt have any problem playing live, and I always check if my backups are 100% stealth can I get banned?
Some old posts were saying the hitachi isnt 100% stealth, is this still the case even with the lastest fw? If so should I avoid live from now on?
Post by: BoNg420 on August 08, 2008, 10:02:00 AM
QUOTE(IBreaker @ Aug 8 2008, 09:54 AM)
I have a hitachi 78FK flashed with the Commodore4Eva iXtreme Hitachi-LG v1.4 fw, Is there some problem with the fw?
So far I didnt have any problem playing live, and I always check if my backups are 100% stealth can I get banned?
Some old posts were saying the hitachi isnt 100% stealth, is this still the case even with the lastest fw? If so should I avoid live from now on?
Dont bump old threads. This post was made 1 year 3 months ago and the last activity was in January of 2008, ixtreme 1.4 fixes the problems with the way they were banning so you are fine.
Note even with up to date firmware it is always possible to get banned. MS can find new ways or keep track of data on you for months, years, who knows before they ban you.