Post by: Diontae18 on August 07, 2004, 01:27:00 PM
"svcplus.zip" is this corect? Now where should it go?
Post by: Prican24 on August 07, 2004, 12:38:00 PM
but since they support gogo's work which has included that game, i guess i could help
<mod edit: info removed>
Post by: GogoAckman on August 07, 2004, 01:50:00 PM
, now you re embarassing you and me
Post by: Prican24 on August 07, 2004, 04:14:00 PM
really makes no difference if its said here or there, they support your work so you can talk about it here or there but if it makes you happy heres the link to gogo's forum
FBA-XXX Forum
Post by: sammaza on August 07, 2004, 05:30:00 PM
and im not scared to say it ...
lol
This post has been edited by sammaza on Aug 8 2004, 12:30 AM
Post by: GogoAckman on August 07, 2004, 05:03:00 PM
Post by: Diontae18 on August 07, 2004, 05:08:00 PM
| QUOTE (GogoAckman @ Aug 8 2004, 01:06 AM) |
| I had some reclamations in the beginning, especially with fba team, this site is more known, I don t want more problems that s all |
Ok then, No problems from us.
Post by: sammaza on August 07, 2004, 05:51:00 PM
-- is supported in 4 sets (bootleg)(HERO hack,real dump, and hacked p1) but only the "protections removed" set is working all others boot to blank screen ....i think it would be sweet to have the real dump version with transparencies working in fbaxxx
Post by: Prican24 on August 07, 2004, 09:08:00 PM
hell the last mslug doesn't work without the hacked p1 since the original p1 isn't cracked yet on any emu except the leaked one and thats including mame
still wondering why neopong still won't work on fba-x/xxx
Post by: feflicker on August 07, 2004, 09:19:00 PM
Post by: GogoAckman on August 08, 2004, 01:44:00 AM
Post by: lantus on August 08, 2004, 06:26:00 PM
people can't seem to follow even the simplest of rules - we dont care what you do with FBA, but distributing binaries with illegal drivers - yes Gogo, a flag in an ini file is meaningless because the binary has been compiled with those drivers is unacceptable.
ive shown this thread to the FBA devs and they agree.
Post by: Thraxen on August 08, 2004, 07:09:00 PM
| QUOTE |
people can't seem to follow even the simplest of rules - we dont care what you do with FBA, but distributing binaries with illegal drivers - yes Gogo, a flag in an ini file is meaningless because the binary has been compiled with those drivers is unacceptable |
*sigh* We've been through this debate before. Emulators built with XDK are illegal and virtually all ROMS are illegal despite what people may believe. Yet you are still going to nit pick over drivers for the new ROMS? I agree that this thread should probably be removed for the sake of the XS site, but not for the hypocritical reason you think it should be.
Post by: Danjuro on August 08, 2004, 06:20:00 PM
Post by: lantus on August 08, 2004, 06:54:00 PM
| QUOTE (Thraxen @ Aug 9 2004, 01:09 AM) |
*sigh* We've been through this debate before. Emulators built with XDK are illegal and virtually all ROMS are illegal despite what people may believe. Yet you are still going to nit pick over drivers for the new ROMS? I agree that this thread should probably be removed for the sake of the XS site, but not for the hypocritical reason you think it should be. |
yes we have been through it before, and we will go through it again until people understand.
Last time i checked , FBA certainly is a legal piece of sourcecode. Sourcecode is legal, No illegal roms are distributed with it.
Illegal drivers are not permitted as part of the FBA policy - http://fba.emuunlim.com/?fba=policy
any other talk about illegal XDKs, modchips, hacked bioses are moot
now run along to 1emulation forums and have a cry about it
Post by: feflicker on August 08, 2004, 08:19:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| You may not distribute binaries which support games with copyright dates less then three years old; |
I am not a lawyer, but how are drivers that are over 3 years old deemed "legal", and those that are under 3 years said to be "illegal"? What is the legal precedence for the "3 years" that is mentioned? (Forgive me if if there is precedence behind this, that I simply do not know about...)
I know the authors of FBA post this policy on their website, but it really isn't their job to "enforce" this stuff, right? Aren't those simply *guidlines* for using their source? There is no *legal* action that can be taken, right?
I am not saying what is right/wrong (I agree it is probably *wrong* to download source and not adhere to the authors usage terms). I am just speaking to what is legal/illegal. I think the "legal" word is getting tossed around without weight behind it?
Sometimes I think it is all taken a little too seriously. I mean, if you want to download someones source freely off the internet, and do what you want with it, who cares if a rule or two is broken here or there. That is "innovation", and having some balls IMHO... If GoGo is willing to take a risk that the FBA authors are not, good for him
Post by: Prican24 on August 08, 2004, 08:52:00 PM
| QUOTE (lantus @ Aug 8 2004, 09:57 PM) |
| now run along to 1emulation forums and have a cry about it |
1emulation.com has nothing to deal with this or fba-xxx so i don't know why you mention the site. this is basically between this forum and gogo and co. to deal with that issue.
funny how you didn't bother to mention about the "drivers" early on to any mod here as even the source has them in it but i don't set the rules so i leave that up to the man that runs this forum and supports gogo's work.
Post by: Thraxen on August 08, 2004, 09:06:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| any other talk about illegal XDKs, modchips, hacked bioses are moot |
Haha... dodging the issue. You well know that everything I said is true. Virtually all of the emulators are compiled with the XDK and are thus illegal. Period. You can't debate that and that issue is NOT moot. Also, this whole "3 year" deal is completely arbitrary. There are no legal grounds supporting this limit. Most ROMS older than 3 years are no more legal than ROMS newer than 3 years. Again, this is not debatable.
| QUOTE |
| now run along to 1emulation forums and have a cry about it |
Spare me... who is acting like the child here?
Post by: sp1200 on August 08, 2004, 09:23:00 PM
)cheers to the squares and blacksheep in the emulation scene.
Post by: Prican24 on August 08, 2004, 09:28:00 PM
| QUOTE (lantus @ Aug 9 2004, 12:06 AM) |
| i was led to believe that gogo's build did not have any > 3 y/o drivers in place. Certainly his older source tree didnt have them. this new ini file switch has only been implemented in recent builds yes? i make mention to 1emulation forums because, you and i both know its a haven for neo kiddies who want hacked builds. |
the ini switch is new but older sources when x-s supported him did have the drivers, only the binary that was posted in "you know where" didn't have them (not the sources that was posted in your forum a while ago)
i'm glad you notice 1emulation is a happy place for freedom of speech but as of now theres rules in effect that change that.
thraxen its a dead issue man, just let it be
fba-team allows the source to availible and to be used in good terms, doing something as such goes against them and they're willing to stop it
sp1200 where the hell do you get 10,000 from
thats mame not fba which is in question i too like gogo's work to the fact it even beats lantus's last fba-x (sorry but its true, but you still rock lantus and tmaul
)
Post by: lantus on August 08, 2004, 09:41:00 PM
| QUOTE (Thraxen @ Aug 9 2004, 04:09 AM) |
| Haha... dodging the issue. You well know that everything I said is true. Virtually all of the emulators are compiled with the XDK and are thus illegal. Period. You can't debate that and that issue is NOT moot. Also, this whole "3 year" deal is completely arbitrary. There are no legal grounds supporting this limit. Most ROMS older than 3 years are no more legal than ROMS newer than 3 years. Again, this is not debatable. Spare me... who is acting like the child here? |
ok so because code is built with an xdk, lets no give a shit about what policy/licence agreement the original devs have in place, because by your argument its all illegal anyway? How about i break into my neighbors car, because i compile code with an xdk.
listen buddy, source code is source code - even if OpenXDK was the main development environment of choice, people would still be providing hacked binaries, id still be preaching and you'd still be debating this with me.
the fact that xbins provide binaries is a discussion that is out of scope with this one and goes back to the beginnings of xbins, its purpose and why it was formed.
the fba devs know about this, why do you want to piss them off even more? its only going to make things worse for the future.
Post by: Thraxen on August 08, 2004, 09:41:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| By the way, very nice logic "since you xbox emulators developers break the law, why not screw over the guys providing you with the source for your ports". |
That's not the point. Lantus was jumping on GoGo for his version using "legality" of the drivers as the basis for his argument. I was just pointing out how absurdly hypocritical that argument is.
| QUOTE |
| even if OpenXDK was the main development environment of choice, people would still be providing hacked binaries, id still be preaching and you'd still be debating this with me. |
Yes I would... because the 3 year rule would still be arbitrary and newer ROMS are no more legal than most older ROMS. You like to to point how emulators themselves are not illegal, well, neither are drivers for newer games. Which leads us back to the authors wishes and then back to the legality of any ROM and back to the wishes of the developers of the actual games... and right back to hypocrisy.
[edit] Let me add that I do appreciate the work that you do, Lantus. Along with XPort, all the other emulator porters, and the people that originally developed the emulators. But it's just my personal opinion that no one involved with the emulation scene whether you be a developer or end user has ANY moral high ground to be harassing other scene members over ANY issue of legality. It's simply the height of hypocrisy.
Post by: lantus on August 08, 2004, 10:04:00 PM
) say in this.i will speak with gogo about this offline and ensure he removes any such ini flag from future builds
Post by: Prican24 on August 08, 2004, 10:21:00 PM
| QUOTE (Danjuro @ Aug 9 2004, 12:37 AM) |
| And to those of you trying to push Gogoackman on the front line, putting him in a very uncomfortable position just as to prove your point, I'll just say shut up and die. I'm glad to be immature. |
all i can say is that he did to himself and it up to him to fix it. someone like you wouldn't care about the problem at hand cuz you get what you want you are just saying that so nothing happens.
no one put the gun to his head to add the drivers in the first place so you think about that
i only hope for the best that things get worked out with fba team and gogo
lantus, have you heard anything about the new version of fba? been so long since an update so just wondering if you heard anything about it
Post by: GogoAckman on August 08, 2004, 10:39:00 PM
| QUOTE (lantus @ Aug 9 2004, 01:26 AM) |
| please remove this thread. people can't seem to follow even the simplest of rules - we dont care what you do with FBA, but distributing binaries with illegal drivers - yes Gogo, a flag in an ini file is meaningless because the binary has been compiled with those drivers is unacceptable. ive shown this thread to the FBA devs and they agree. |
I am sorry lantus, but you can speak for you first
:| CODE |
| You may freely use, modify, and distribute both the FB Alpha source code and binary, however the following restrictions apply to the FB Alpha original material (see below for a list of libraries with differing licenses, please consult their respective documentation for more information): - You may not sell, lease, rent or otherwise seek to gain monetary profit from FB Alpha; - You must make public any changes you make to the source code; - You must include, verbatim, the full text of this license; - You may not distribute binaries which support games with copyright dates less then three years old; - You may not distribute FB Alpha with ROM images unless you have the legal right to distribute them. |
I discussed it with loop too not so long ago, he said he ll speak to you but he didn t, is there a thing we don t know?
As for the ini, it is not my idea, I totally agree with you when you say it is an illegal binary but apparently manto has discussed about it on emulation forum/news and it is on the illegal limit (it would be illegal if you had only to press some buttons).
EDIT : by the way, I love and respect your work, I just don t agree with this 3 year things, as emulating a rom we don t possess is illegal, and I am sur at least some ppl have the original SS5,Mslug4 or other
.
Post by: Jan_Klaassen on August 09, 2004, 12:22:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| As for the ini, it is not my idea, I totally agree with you when you say it is an illegal binary but apparently manto has discussed about it on emulation forum/news and it is on the illegal limit (it would be illegal if you had only to press some buttons). |
Manto's opinion is as irrelevant as could possibly be. Mine and Lantus' are relevant, and FBA's license is relevant.
The license says this:
| QUOTE |
|
This is about as clear as it gets, and nowhere does it say "but if you make an ini variable to enable/disable newer games that's fine too." Please remove that option.
As to the general attitude about FBA or MAME not allowing new games to be played with them, it's not about us, the authors of the emulators, it's about trying to make sure the games developers and publishers can earn their income while the games are profitable in arcades. I can hear the shrill cries of "Hypocrisy!" from the usual "g1mme free g4mez" crowd a mile away, but I won't waste any more breath than I already have.
Post by: Silentjay420 on August 09, 2004, 12:24:00 AM
Post by: Prican24 on August 09, 2004, 01:16:00 AM
Post by: VampX on August 09, 2004, 03:50:00 AM
| QUOTE (Prican24 @ Aug 9 2004, 11:19 AM) |
| games like svc or mslug5 should support the makers and give them the time to earn what they worked for. svc is coming to xbox soon and will have live support for those that use that service and i hope some of you are willing to buy it a kof2002/3 collection is also coming soon for xbox also mslug4/5 collection is coming in january |
Screw those, real MVS cartridges is where its at!
I'd be so buying slug 4&5 if it werent for the fact that they are about $250 each if not more.
but i can wait.. and FBA-XXX makes the waiting so much less anoying.
Post by: GogoAckman on August 09, 2004, 07:47:00 AM
Post by: Prican24 on August 09, 2004, 11:17:00 AM
i really have no more to say about this topic and you embarassed yourself with your post quoting fba's rule which jan pointed out clearly.
i have no problem with your work as i have said before as you have turned a buggy source to something we all can enjoy and ditch kawa-x.
at this point its up to you and the fba team to discuss about fba-xxx and hope for the best.
Post by: GogoAckman on August 09, 2004, 11:43:00 AM
| QUOTE (Prican24 @ Aug 9 2004, 07:20 PM) |
| GogoAckman, did i put the gun to your head for you to add the drivers or to allow a switch to activate banned games? No i really have no more to say about this topic and you embarassed yourself with your post quoting fba's rule which jan pointed out clearly. i have no problem with your work as i have said before as you have turned a buggy source to something we all can enjoy and ditch kawa-x. at this point its up to you and the fba team to discuss about fba-xxx and hope for the best. |
You didn t had to break the rules of this forum, am I worng?
Now, as I said, I have no problem to remove post 2001 neogeo games, after all, I have the source and can compile it easily (that s your case too I know), but don t think I am going to break this forum rules because people love fbaxxx (and that you didn t like in the beginning if I remember).
Post by: Diontae18 on August 09, 2004, 12:24:00 PM
Post by: GogoAckman on August 09, 2004, 12:33:00 PM
2) I dont think Lantuse, nore FBA team are for these rules but they must respect finaluburn/mame license, in fact, I suppose the authors of mame have all the rights in this little emulation world, in fact since kof99, all became a little confusing, saying that playing new games is not legal, but it is, as it is illegal to play roms you don t possess (I will not say I possess a neogeo game, but that s another story).
So, I am not sad about Lantus or FBA team reaction, it is normal, I think they re ok to support those roms "unofficially", just don t think you can say/support/ask for support it anywhere
.Now, as I said, if FBA team asks me to cease the support of roms after 2001, I ll do it (I know there will always be someone to add new drivers BTW), after all, FBAXXX is now good enough to be a great emu, even without post 2001 roms support
.
Post by: Silentjay420 on August 09, 2004, 12:54:00 PM
| QUOTE (Manabyte @ Aug 9 2004, 08:18 PM) |
| This respect for the FBA license is rediculous. |
I'm curious, why is respect for something that isn't yours ridiculous? If it's in the license, it's in the damn license.. simple as that..
Post by: Prican24 on August 09, 2004, 01:13:00 PM
| QUOTE (GogoAckman @ Aug 9 2004, 02:46 PM) |
| You didn t had to break the rules of this forum, am I worng? Now, as I said, I have no problem to remove post 2001 neogeo games, after all, I have the source and can compile it easily (that s your case too I know), but don t think I am going to break this forum rules because people love fbaxxx (and that you didn t like in the beginning if I remember). |
what rule did i break? as i said they support your work and i'll be damned if the owner of the forum not to notice the banned games being added in your project. if they support it , they support it for its full limits hidden or not.
if you really didn't have a problem removing the 2002+ games and follow mame/fba's rule, then why not just do it? as lantus pointed out, any monkey can add the drivers so its not a big issue as your are making it into.
i'll admit that the first 3 or 4 versions of it (this is way before x-s supported him)i didin't like but like i said before you have changed a buggy source to something we all can enjoy and replaced kawa-x which is no longer supported since being a dead project.
Post by: GogoAckman on August 09, 2004, 01:17:00 PM
| QUOTE (Prican24 @ Aug 9 2004, 09:16 PM) |
| what rule did i break? as i said they support your work and i'll be damned if the owner of the forum not to notice the banned games being added in your project. if they support it , they support it for its full limits hidden or not. if you really didn't have a problem removing the 2002+ games and follow mame/fba's rule, then why not just do it? as lantus pointed out, any monkey can add the drivers so its not a big issue as your are making it into. i'll admit that the first 3 or 4 versions of it (this is way before x-s supported him)i didin't like but like i said before you have changed a buggy source to something we all can enjoy and replaced kawa-x which is no longer supported since being a dead project. |
Well I remember a post saying new roms are not supported here, effectively I don t find it anymore
.For the new roms support, you re right, if it isn t me , someone else will do it, but I just do not want to stop developping it for a little story about 2002+ roms.
Post by: gamemaster14 on August 09, 2004, 01:24:00 PM
Post by: Prican24 on August 09, 2004, 01:31:00 PM
btw, that post you were refering to was to kawa-x but was taken down since its a dead project
Post by: GogoAckman on August 09, 2004, 01:40:00 PM
| QUOTE (gamemaster14 @ Aug 9 2004, 09:27 PM) |
| I wouldnt doubt that most of the people on the fourm who support the 3 or 4 year rule either have a good arcade by them or have enough money to buy the arcade machines or boards. Alot of us dont have any decent arcades anymore thus in order to play the new games we must resort to emulation because it is the only way to play them. I am sure if there were more good arcades in the usa and other places this wouldnt be an issue but the simple fact is that the arcade on a whole is on a decline. I know a ton of you will say it is because of emulation but it isnt. These days most gamers would rather play their games in the confort of thir own homes which totally kills the money brought in by arcades so less are open. If anything can be blamed for the decline of arcades it could be console games. If we didnt have new and hot games right at our fingertips we would want to go to the noisy arcade and punp quarters in the latest game. Of course that isnt the case so many of us have gone to emulation to please our new arcade game craving. Are we wrong for doing this? That is for you to decide. I respect the people who make the emulators but the fact is as I said people who have arcades or alot of money dont mind the restrictions people who dont have either are left out. It is hard to play new games when they simply dont exist. |
I totally agree with you, but in some case, the new games go out on console, and they maybe don t have as good sells as they could because of emulation. This is vicious, because in this case the editor doesn t want to continue arcade games
.
Post by: GogoAckman on August 09, 2004, 01:44:00 PM
| QUOTE (Prican24 @ Aug 9 2004, 09:34 PM) |
| best thing i can suggest is just remove the ini option and make a clean version like you used to. thoses that want a special version would know where to go just like a few months ago btw, that post you were refering to was to kawa-x but was taken down since its a dead project |
I think if I have to remove 2002+ games, I will not include an "unofficial version" on the forum, but the drivers will be in the sources (after all, the license denies it only for the binary), and then maybe some one (maybe you
) will do an unofficial version 
.
Post by: Prican24 on August 09, 2004, 01:59:00 PM
| QUOTE (GogoAckman @ Aug 9 2004, 04:47 PM) |
| I think if I have to remove 2002+ games, I will not include an "unofficial version" on the forum, but the drivers will be in the sources (after all, the license denies it only for the binary), and then maybe some one (maybe you ) will do an unofficial version . |
sounds good, i haven't compiled fba in a while but you never know
Post by: feflicker on August 09, 2004, 02:12:00 PM
Seriously though, I can't believe how serious people are taking the 3+ years rule that MameDev implemented. I can't believe people care that much about the issue... If it isn't GoGo, someone else is going to do it anyway!
It is nice to see people debating the points though, and not launching a bunch or personal attacks
Post by: devlkore on August 09, 2004, 03:01:00 PM
As for licences, ie SNK's licences AND FBA team's licence, well, that's a hard one, but since the drivers are so easy to add, it will only take a well written tutorial for everyone to have access to the same games again, it will be even easier if the drivers are left in the source, but still very easy if they are not.
Post by: Prican24 on August 09, 2004, 03:12:00 PM
Post by: VampX on August 09, 2004, 04:26:00 PM
So if this thread will result in no more Banned games on FBA-XXX then i will now start the "lets buy Vamp Metal Slug 4&5 & Snk Vs Capcom" fund.
Post by: devlkore on August 09, 2004, 04:43:00 PM
| QUOTE (VampX @ Aug 9 2004, 11:29 PM) |
| There are hardly any arcades left in my country, the only way i can play NeoGeo is either buying the MVS Cartridges for my Cabinet or using FBA-XXX. So if this thread will result in no more Banned games on FBA-XXX then i will now start the "lets buy Vamp Metal Slug 4&5 & Snk Vs Capcom" fund. |
I think the majority of people are without a decent arcade within 100 miles of where they live and since most arcade games (not all) don't get home conversions, I think the 3 year thing is bollocks. I don't think respecting FBA team's (or any other author's) wishes is bollocks, I just think that what their wishes are happens to be bollocks.
When I was younger there was an arcade near my school and I used to play a few fighting games at lunch and have the (very) occasional game of Raiden, and for a short while there was a Metal Slug machine which I didn't play, because I was short on money and didn't want to risk it in a game that I knew nothing about. Now that arcade (which I now live over 75 miles away from) is now closed and as I said previously, the many arcades near where I live do not have any good games except for House Of The Dead 3 which I already have on Xbox. My point being, without emulation I wouldn't get to play arcade games, no matter how old, so the 3 year thing has no bearing on how much money SNK or whoever gets from me and I'm sure this is the same situation that loads of people are in.
Also, I don't deny that there are people who won't go to the arcades to play games, because they get them for free, but I don't think that's the majority, which is why I've referred to the 3 year rule as bollocks so many times.
BYEEEEE!!
PS: In case anyone didn't understand all of my post, I DO have respect for FBA Team's wishes, I just don't agree with what they are.
Post by: lantus on August 09, 2004, 05:19:00 PM
| QUOTE (Diontae18 @ Aug 9 2004, 07:27 PM) |
| Lantus, why are you trying to downgrade the xbox's FBA-XXX emulator? if Gogo puts it in the ini file whether or not to let the newer set of roms to be played, Why are you trying to take it away? |
for the record i think gogo is doing a great job with fba-xxx and i dont have any issues with him or his team at all.
the mameox team would respond in the exact same way as me if a build like this appeared on xbins. And you know how MHz reacted about KawaX.
Post by: lantus on August 09, 2004, 05:21:00 PM
| QUOTE (VampX @ Aug 9 2004, 11:29 PM) |
| There are hardly any arcades left in my country, the only way i can play NeoGeo is either buying the MVS Cartridges for my Cabinet or using FBA-XXX. So if this thread will result in no more Banned games on FBA-XXX then i will now start the "lets buy Vamp Metal Slug 4&5 & Snk Vs Capcom" fund. |
there still quite a few down at the arcades here. While i cant afford to buy carts, ive been picking up some NeoCD's on ebay. Have quite a nice collection now
Post by: Silentjay420 on August 09, 2004, 05:34:00 PM
| QUOTE (Manabyte @ Aug 9 2004, 09:20 PM) |
| And since you're since you're clearly going to join the bandwagon and kiss up, I'm sure you would NEVER enable the "forbidden" games right? Come on, tell everyone that you wouldn't do that because your code of eithics won't allow it. |
First off, don't assume you know anything.. kissing up? How have I tried to kiss up..? Oh that's right, I haven't. And I never have enable the forbidden games, because I don't care.. I truly don't.. Some people make it sound like it's a right to play those games, when it is not. If I wanna play SVC, I'll play it on my PS2... ain't no kissin' up here son.
Post by: Prican24 on August 09, 2004, 05:39:00 PM
Post by: Prican24 on August 09, 2004, 05:49:00 PM
| QUOTE (jimmyj @ Aug 9 2004, 08:41 PM) |
| what so you support banned games prican you pric read what i said earlier now ive read 4 pages of crap |
get over yourself, its over and done with jimmy boy
all my compiles have been from gogo/mantos source just to fix names, drivers and even adding freeware games; everything else was left as what they put in there.
i already said what i had to say about banned games and i for one support snk's work and will be buying svc, kof2003/3 and mslug4/5 for xbox when its out. (samurai shodown 5 if it does come out as well)
as for arcades, yeah some places are far but some are in places you normally expect them such as the movie theatre.
Post by: Prican24 on August 09, 2004, 06:03:00 PM
Post by: devlkore on August 09, 2004, 06:04:00 PM
| QUOTE (lantus @ Aug 10 2004, 01:03 AM) |
| yep, i gave them a few fixes that resolve some sprite priority issues (LB2 & Viewpoint comes to mind). |
Glad to hear it, I love Last Blade 2, more than any banned game, might I add
I wish we had net play, then we could all own each other at Last Blade 2 and Samura Showdown 4, but that's for a dev thread.
LA!
BYEEEEE!!
Post by: devlkore on August 09, 2004, 06:05:00 PM
| QUOTE (Prican24 @ Aug 10 2004, 12:52 AM) |
| get over yourself, its over and done with jimmy boy all my compiles have been from gogo/mantos source just to fix names, drivers and even adding freeware games; everything else was left as what they put in there. i already said what i had to say about banned games and i for one support snk's work and will be buying svc, kof2003/3 and mslug4/5 for xbox when its out. (samurai shodown 5 if it does come out as well) as for arcades, yeah some places are far but some are in places you normally expect them such as the movie theatre. |
What freeware games have you added?
Post by: VampX on August 09, 2004, 06:23:00 PM
| QUOTE (lantus @ Aug 10 2004, 03:24 AM) |
| there still quite a few down at the arcades here. While i cant afford to buy carts, ive been picking up some NeoCD's on ebay. Have quite a nice collection now |
You using a real NeoCD console or using your emulator?
i've been thinking of aquiring a NeoCD console myself,
but after your port of NeoCDSDLx i dont know if i could handle a real NeoCD console.
I mean.. it loads so sloooooooooooooooooooow
Still.. it would be a worthy addon to the collection "rubs hands"
Post by: Prican24 on August 09, 2004, 06:26:00 PM
i also added a working version of jockeygp thx to iq_321's fix
Post by: devlkore on August 09, 2004, 06:33:00 PM
| QUOTE (Prican24 @ Aug 10 2004, 01:29 AM) |
| i my early compiles i added all versions of neo no panepon, added neopong but that doesn't work, the pokernight game which is now in fba-xxx, and another called beast which was shadow of the beast amiga port to neogeo but doesn't have any sound. i also added a working version of jockeygp thx to iq_321's fix |
Are there any tutorials/guides to compiling FBAxxx (or general source compiling guides)?
This isn't so I can add/distribute banned games into FBAx, just so I can personalise it and have fun with the source code (I'm trying to learn to program).
Post by: Prican24 on August 09, 2004, 07:05:00 PM
lantus: any chance of an update to the neocd emu?
Post by: devlkore on August 09, 2004, 07:23:00 PM
| QUOTE (Prican24 @ Aug 10 2004, 02:08 AM) |
| devlkore .net visual 2003 and that illegal xbox software we aren't allowed to talk about hehe i recomend trying the pc version to practice with the drivers and such lantus: any chance of an update to the neocd emu? |
Aside from being able to test/play on the same machine that I'd be compiling on, are there any other advantages to using the PC version to test over the Xbox version?
Post by: Manto on August 10, 2004, 12:17:00 AM
Post by: Likklebaer on August 10, 2004, 01:32:00 AM
I can't say too much on this subject but it's my opinion that a Neo-Geo emulator should emulate the Neo-Geo and any morality involved about what you should and should not play on it should be down to personal conscience rather than imposed by the authors just because the MAME team says so.
Personally I couldn't care less about some game company's already over-inflated profits. Let people who don't know any better continue to line their bulging pockets. It's a pirettes life for me.
[sings] "A pirette I was meant to be, trim the sails... etc. etc." [/sings]
Post by: Manto on August 10, 2004, 03:11:00 AM
| QUOTE (Likklebaer @ Aug 10 2004, 08:35 AM) |
| But this thread should be locked. That way Gogo can continue his excellent work on FBA-XXX unharassed, and lantus won't have anywhere to bitch about 'n00 r0mZ'. |
Can't you read? The newer roms won't be added anymore in FBAxxx neither in the binary, neither in the sources.
[Edit:] And Lantus was the first one to make an xbox port of FBA. Without is work, FBAxxx wouldn't exist, so stop bitching around about things you don't know...
Post by: Likklebaer on August 10, 2004, 04:07:00 AM
lantus, since you dropped the FBA-X project you seem disgusted you at people 'misusing' your work to play so-called banned roms. However justified that may be I must ask, what did you think would happen?!
We're talking about a community that uses illegally modified consoles to play illegally downloaded games on emulators compiled with an illegal XDK. The moral fibre of this scene by its very definition is clearly less than exemplary. So did you really expect these people with clearly limited respect for the law to respect a little disclaimer telling them what they can and cannot do with the emulator?
Right or wrong, it was bound to happen and I'm sure you knew that all too well before the Neo-Geo supporting version of FBA-X was ever released.
Post by: devlkore on August 10, 2004, 06:26:00 AM
| QUOTE (lantus @ Aug 10 2004, 07:20 AM) |
| the same way i think GPL is a steaming pile of shit but i still adhere to it? |
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, Lantus.
Are you literally saying that you don't agree with the GPL, but you have to adhere to it because it's part of one/some of you port's original source code license, or are you just saying that what I said was crap?
In my previous post I was saying that I don't outright think people should break the license of FBA, but since I don't agree with what the license said I'm kind of glad that it did happen (notice: "kind of", I'm not happy that FBA Team are pissed off, but I am happy to be able to play as many games as possible).
Also, good point yadster.
Post by: devlkore on August 10, 2004, 07:47:00 AM
| QUOTE (Thraxen @ Aug 10 2004, 01:45 PM) |
| No, you are exactly correct... and it all goes back to my original point. Ignoring the emulator's developers wishes is like stealing money from a bank robber. Yet some people still get all indignant about the issue. I just wish these people would own up to the fact that emulators are a very grey area to begin with. |
I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that emulation in general is a grey area, the thing is we're all stepping on someone's toes, whether it's M$'es, Capcom's or Nintendo's, etc, the "problem" here is some people don't mind stepping on a few more, ie FBA Team, which is why this conversation will never end.
All anyone can really do is do what they feel is right; If you honestly don't think it's bad to go against the wishes of FBA Team, then go ahead and do it, if you do think it's bad, then don't. I personally, would question how and why you draw the line between FBA Team and SNK/Capcom/Sega/Nintendo/M$/etc?
Post by: devlkore on August 10, 2004, 08:19:00 AM
| QUOTE (farsight @ Aug 10 2004, 03:03 PM) |
| At the end of the day there are lines draw out in emulation for a reason, some legal (copy rights etc) others purely out of respect for manufactures and coders. His topic has crossed it and is now dancing all over it. It?s blocked for a reason. There are a lot of big bad wolves in the gaming world, but SNK Playmore is far from one of them. Now show a little respect and close this topic.. |
But as I pointed out, I don't think most people have access to the games which aren't allowed in FBA, also, someone else pointed out that Metal Slug 3 IS allowed, but it's available on Xbox, where's the logic in that?
As for closing the topic, I don't think it's doing any harm, I thought we were having a discussion here.
Post by: GogoAckman on August 10, 2004, 08:35:00 AM
| QUOTE (devlkore @ Aug 10 2004, 04:22 PM) |
| But as I pointed out, I don't think most people have access to the games which aren't allowed in FBA, also, someone else pointed out that Metal Slug 3 IS allowed, but it's available on Xbox, where's the logic in that? As for closing the topic, I don't think it's doing any harm, I thought we were having a discussion here. |
It is totally true, you/he got 1 point
.As for xdk, modchip/exploit, I think you re right too, do the users of emulator care about the law, after all I didn t see a law against emulators, when there will be a law stipulating emulation is legal but not for games that are less than 3 years, we will not be able to complain, but it is not the case (and I seriously dont think it will be
).As for the drivers in fbaxxx, I am speaking of it with manto, and as I have not received a mail/pm from fba team on my forum, I will continue to add it, and I do not agree with the facts it will be removed from the sources.
I do not like emulation "elite" but if I must remove new drivers, I ll do it, because I am as many of you, always waiting for FBA/mame update and I do not want them to stop working for this little problem.
Post by: GogoAckman on August 10, 2004, 09:21:00 AM
| QUOTE (farsight @ Aug 10 2004, 05:01 PM) |
| Gogo I'm not getting at you but as i've said before FBA team put a block on certain games for a reason. I don't want to see great emu's become closed source. Yes metal slug 3 is over 3 years old now leave it unblocked but svcplus is not, so just let people unblock it themselves. Im not to bothered if those blocks are deactivated or not but that should be there choice. I don't however think discussing it on X-S forum is the palace to do it. But keep up the good work anyway |
I think the difference between you and me is that you think for yourself (yes you can add drivers, so let them do this by themselves), and I think for everyone (that s why I started FBAXXX even without great notions in C++)
Post by: yadster on August 10, 2004, 09:30:00 AM
Post by: farsight on August 10, 2004, 09:46:00 AM
The 3 year rule is in place partly out of respect to SNK and partly not to piss them off to much.
Gogo, there where patches created for FBA-X and Kawa-X to unblock those games, they where easy enough to use. Why not just let people patch the xbe its easy enough to do, that way you stay nice and clean & FBA team can't blame you the coder.
Post by: Mephiska on August 10, 2004, 09:49:00 AM
all of the talk about no local arcades, sales, and the need to play the newest games is pointless.
is it that bad to wait a few years for an arcade game? do you have to play that game that much?
this isnt directed at any one person, in fact a salute gogo for cleaning up fbaxxx some and making it an overall better emu.
this whole thread is 6 pages of ppl saying the same thing.
Post by: Jan_Klaassen on August 10, 2004, 10:17:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| As for the drivers in fbaxxx, I am speaking of it with manto, and as I have not received a mail/pm from fba team on my forum, I will continue to add it, and I do not agree with the facts it will be removed from the sources. |
What the hell is that about? You've been asked twice right here in this thread, by Lantus and by me, so what is this nonsense? FBA's license is very clear on the subject, and I've had quite enough of this.
| QUOTE |
| I can't say too much on this subject but it's my opinion that a Neo-Geo emulator should emulate the Neo-Geo and any morality involved about what you should and should not play on it should be down to personal conscience rather than imposed by the authors just because the MAME team says so. |
Where did you get the insane idea that the MAME team decides what I can't and cannot emulate? The reason most emulators follow MAME's rules is that most emulator authors agree with them. We don't wish to be the ones that enable you to play your 0-day warez, get it yet?
| QUOTE |
| Personally I couldn't care less about some game company's already over-inflated profits. |
Oh, please, this is just pathetic. You are aware Sega suffered a hostile takeover, and SNK has been barely hanging on for years, right? You are aware Capcom has ceased development of arcade games, right? You are aware that most companies specialising in arcade games went bankrupt long ago, right?
There has however been at least one consequence of all you twits insisting you have some moral right to misuse our emulators by adding the latest games to them: a lot of people now won't write any drivers for systems on which games are still released. Congratulations on that achievement.
In point of fact, when I wrote FBA's Neo Geo driver, the system was considered dead. My only mistake was letting you have it when they released new games for the system anyway. Don't worry, won't happen again.
Post by: Mephiska on August 10, 2004, 10:20:00 AM
| QUOTE (Manabyte @ Aug 10 2004, 01:58 PM) |
| Let me ask you this Mephiska: Did the FBA team respect the license and wishes of the original developers by creating the emu? |
licenses go back to the whole legality discussion.
last i checked its not against any license to create an emulator.
*unless its a gameboy emu for a handheld/portable device.*
as for wishes, who knows what the original developers wanted. they work for a corporation, they have no wishes. their wishes are owned by whoever they work for.
next.
Post by: GogoAckman on August 10, 2004, 10:57:00 AM
| QUOTE (Jan_Klaassen @ Aug 10 2004, 06:20 PM) |
| What the hell is that about? You've been asked twice right here in this thread, by Lantus and by me, so what is this nonsense? FBA's license is very clear on the subject, and I've had quite enough of this. |
simply because -> inscription 09/08 2 messages, anyone could be registered with your nickname.
Now, ok, Manto will delete these drivers, as for myself, I will probably not be working on this project, too musch hypocrisis (I totally agree metal slug3 is worse than SS5 support), and afterall, manto do a great work (and I am occupied with u64-xxx).
EDIT : update is now done, I am now in right with the license, when is it your turn Lantus?
(even if fbaxbeta4.1 sources are not needed anymore, I say it just for fact)Post by: Jan_Klaassen on August 10, 2004, 01:07:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| EDIT : update is now done, I am now in right with the license, when is it your turn Lantus? (even if fbaxbeta4.1 sources are not needed anymore, I say it just for fact) |
This has been done to the death you know? You've been given the reason for the absence of those sources, you've been given the assurance that it won't happen again, and that's all there's to it. I've spoken to Lantus and TMaul about it, but unlike you they do try to adhere to the license and don't feel the need to bitch about it, scream about hypocrisy and try to weasel themselves out of adhering to it. Accidents happen, please let it rest.
Post by: haileymegs on August 10, 2004, 01:09:00 PM
This is an issue that will never been solved, and I think CAN'T be solved. Removing and not emulating the drivers isnt going to solve any companies money problems. Most of the companies money problems mostly extend to the fact that the consoles are out pacing the arcades. Which causes arcades to close down, which explains why I have to go ALL The way from Philadelphia to NY to actually SEE and PLAY any SNK game (Well any arcade game for that matter) when it comes out. There are little resturants and places that have games, but they are neither up to date and most of the time they don't work properly. Maybe SNK should release their own Xbox emulator for their games? I'd buy that instantly, knowing I could have full access to their games and have them legally. I don't blame the emulation authors for this, I blame the R&D team for the game companies, and their methods for distributing the games. They want everyone to play their games? Put it on a medium that everyone has access to. These companies have licenses and patents for these games, they should USE THEM. There are fans like me salivating to play another Metal Slug game or a really good arcade game, but where can I play it , if its no where to be found?
I've enjoyed what all the emulation person / teams have produced thus far. There are many games that I finally get a chance to play again because consoles, game arcade machines and portables DO DIE after time. If time was such a big deal to whether something was emulated or not, then the Xbox emulation / modding community wouldn't have existed until now. Cause I'm sure as soon as the Xbox was first released people started tinkering with it and making their own additions, same goes for cars, boats, other consoles, hair dryers, etc. I think what the person said earlier most people are using thier xboxes in a way that MS hadnt planned on, so why are people getting bitter at someone for choosing to extend the capabilities beyond what was initial purpose?
Would disabling / removing the drivers from FBA-XXX bring a grand renewal to SNK? Probably not. This is a moral issue. One that won't be fixed by removing or disabling anything. The more I read this thread, the more its like a corporate embezzler calling a bank robber "bad" or "evil". They are both doing the same thing, are they not? But thats my two cents.
Post by: Likklebaer on August 10, 2004, 01:19:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Oh, please, this is just pathetic. You are aware Sega suffered a hostile takeover, and SNK has been barely hanging on for years, right? You are aware Capcom has ceased development of arcade games, right? You are aware that most companies specialising in arcade games went bankrupt long ago, right? |
Don't try to tell me that even one of these companies has cited emulation as a reason for their hardships. Arcade games are no longer produced as abundantly because home console technology has equalled and surpassed them, they are simply not even nearly as profitable as they used to be. And the Neo-Geo has been looking pretty dated since the PSX came out, I'm amazed SNK stayed around for as long as they did. None of this has anything to do with the usage of roms old or new.
| QUOTE |
| We don't wish to be the ones that enable you to play your 0-day warez, get it yet? |
Then, frankly, you should have spent your time writing a pretty screensaver or something. I guarantee every single user of FBA (probably even yourself) has used it to play at least one rom that they did not pay for and do not own a legitimate copy of. That's warez my friend and, right or wrong, that's what the majority of emulators are used for.
| QUOTE |
| as for myself, I will probably not be working on this project, too musch hypocrisis |
I'm sorry to hear that Gogo. The work you did on FBA-XXX was nothing short of outstanding, but it's understandable you wanting out of all this BS. Good luck with U64-XXX.
Post by: Jan_Klaassen on August 10, 2004, 01:36:00 PM
| QUOTE | ||||
Don't try to tell me that even one of these companies has cited emulation as a reason for their hardships. |
Funny, with the original context restored, it looks uncannily like you're changing the subject. I never said emulation caused those problems. SNK, however, has said that.
| QUOTE |
| I guarantee every single user of FBA (probably even yourself) has used it to play at least one rom that they did not pay for and do not own a legitimate copy of. |
So why is it that every single I emphasise I don't want my emulator used for recent games you completely ignore that qualification? If you're going to respond, respond to to what I actually write, or don't respond at all.
Post by: devlkore on August 10, 2004, 01:45:00 PM
| QUOTE (Jan_Klaassen @ Aug 10 2004, 08:39 PM) |
| Oh, please, this is just pathetic. You are aware Sega suffered a hostile takeover, and SNK has been barely hanging on for years, right? You are aware Capcom has ceased development of arcade games, right? You are aware that most companies specialising in arcade games went bankrupt long ago, right?[/QUOTE] Don't try to tell me that even one of these companies has cited emulation as a reason for their hardships.[/QUOTE] Funny, with the original context restored, it looks uncannily like you're changing the subject. I never said emulation caused those problems. SNK, however, has said that. So why is it that every single I emphasise I don't want my emulator used for recent games you completely ignore that qualification? If you're going to respond, respond to to what I actually write, or don't respond at all. |
This isn't an attack on you JK, but do you really think that a significant number of people thought "I won't play/buy proper SNK STufF (ie play arcades, buy home conversions) because I can play it on my PC/Xbox with this hacked emu."?
Post by: Likklebaer on August 10, 2004, 02:37:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| So why is it that every single I emphasise I don't want my emulator used for recent games you completely ignore that qualification? If you're going to respond, respond to to what I actually write, or don't respond at all. |
Because your definition of 'recent' is just that, your definition and I don't think it's right that you impose it on every one who uses the emulator. To me the concept of one illegal rom being 'more ethical' than another is ridiculous (Metal Slug 3 is okay but don't even think about playing Metal Slug 4!!) so why should I be expected to adhere to your twisted sense of right and wrong?
The bottom line is that you released FBA as an open-source emulator. If the thought of people taking advantage of that situation to play 'forbidden' games on it bothered you then perhaps you should have reconsidered that when you added the Neo-Geo drivers. If FBA were closed-source and people were creating hacked versions to play newer games then you'd be justified in being upset. But when it's a case of people simply adding drivers to a code that you've made publicly available, no offense but I'm afraid it's no longer in your hands. All you can do is state what you think is right, and hope that the emu community is of a high enough moral fibre to agree with you (which I guess it isn't).
Post by: feflicker on August 10, 2004, 02:44:00 PM
Honestly, once ANYTHING goes open-source, you can't get pist if people take it, modify it to their "liking", and then distribute it. What is the point of making it open-source if people can't innovate within the code?
It is not like fba is a project looking for outside coders to "improve" it, right? We would all probably agree that FBA is one of the finest emulators available, it is not like you guys need help?
My question is: Would people still be pissed if I added the driver myself, compiled it on my PC, and used it myself, never distributing it to other people? Is that wrong? I don't feel it is, and I certainly don't think it makes a difference if I were to share that work
Post by: GogoAckman on August 10, 2004, 02:54:00 PM
| QUOTE (feflicker @ Aug 10 2004, 10:47 PM) |
| Holy crap! I just agreed with Likklebaer Honestly, once ANYTHING goes open-source, you can't get pist if people take it, modify it to their "liking", and then distribute it. What is the point of making it open-source if people can't innovate within the code? It is not like fba is a project looking for outside coders to "improve" it, right? We would all probably agree that FBA is one of the finest emulators available, it is not like you guys need help? My question is: Would people still be pissed if I added the driver myself, compiled it on my PC, and used it myself, never distributing it to other people? Is that wrong? I don't feel it is, and I certainly don't think it makes a difference if I were to share that work |
just continue like that and psikyo games support will be closed sources, that s all you re going to win (even if I agree with most people by a certain way), now -> to the moderator, do what you could have done since so many time, close this damn topic.
Post by: Prican24 on August 10, 2004, 02:58:00 PM
Post by: feflicker on August 10, 2004, 02:58:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| just continue like that and psikyo games support will be closed sources |
I know, I hope what I said is not taken that way... I guess I just don't understand opening sources if you are going to put all kinds of rules on how the source can be used (rules that make no sense, and will obviously be challenged and difficult to enforce).
And then tracking down people who don't follow your rules and demanding they follow them
I just wish it was more positive, that's all. Share each others hard work to make the best possible outcome for the people who use the applications (you know, the "warez" people mentioned earlier...)
Post by: feflicker on August 10, 2004, 03:11:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Lantus has attrapper the big one since a small times end c is damage qu it is necessary has chauqe times qu they break the people. Gogo and Manto do tubby good tres it finishes the tubby one of Lantus (it takes out an emu and arrete of develloper apres two versions.) Now some remove the drives for the new dump to be going to kill you your site and the pleasure qu one of the thousands of person has to use fba-xxx. Be everyone goes remains has the version 02/08 or d here a week there will be a fba-xxx2 cree by a monkey since d apres Lantus meme a monkey could add something has fba-x. In any case j's made the first move and I would continue has to compile the version with the new dump and I would continue has to screw it everywhere just to do to dump the mister that takes itself the tete parcequ it devellope too much emu xbox |
My favorite part is the "Now some remove the drives for the new dump to be going to kill you your site".
Post by: Prican24 on August 10, 2004, 03:19:00 PM
Post by: rekcah2000a on August 10, 2004, 03:34:00 PM
Post by: Prican24 on August 10, 2004, 03:56:00 PM
Post by: Jan_Klaassen on August 10, 2004, 04:39:00 PM
| QUOTE | ||
Because your definition of 'recent' is just that, your definition and I don't think it's right that you impose it on every one who uses the emulator. |
But it's my emulator, and Therefore it's my prerogative to attach conditions to it's usage. You're free to not use it, noone's forcing you to.
| QUOTE |
| To me the concept of one illegal rom being 'more ethical' than another is ridiculous |
It's easy: old arcade games no longer generate revenue, so having those playable doesn't hurt the developers.
| QUOTE |
| (Metal Slug 3 is okay but don't even think about playing Metal Slug 4!!) |
If we had known they'd finally get it ported 4 years after the release and about as long after home ports were cancelled, it would never have been included. Don't worry, we'll be more careful in the future, and your hammering this issue will only make us even more careful. We didn't remove it as the genie is out of the bottle, and has been for about 3 years now, so removing it would be pointless.
| QUOTE |
| so why should I be expected to adhere to your twisted sense of right and wrong? |
If you're using my emulator, because I say so. It's that simple, see above.
| QUOTE |
| The bottom line is that you released FBA as an open-source emulator. If the thought of people taking advantage of that situation to play 'forbidden' games on it bothered you then perhaps you should have reconsidered that when you added the Neo-Geo drivers. If FBA were closed-source and people were creating hacked versions to play newer games then you'd be justified in being upset. But when it's a case of people simply adding drivers to a code that you've made publicly available, no offense but I'm afraid it's no longer in your hands. |
That's bullshit. Releasing FBA binaries with new games enabled is both legally and morally the exact equivalent of hacking closed-source emulators when the authors object to such. FBA's license is quite clear on the subject and the licese text is embedded in the PC binaries, it's included in the source packages, and you're supposed to read it.
| QUOTE |
| Honestly, once ANYTHING goes open-source, you can't get pist if people take it, modify it to their "liking", and then distribute it. What is the point of making it open-source if people can't innovate within the code? |
Where the hell did you get that idea? You can't do anything with the source that goes against the license under which it is released. FBA's license includes a few restrictions, and so do most open-source licences. You can't, for instance, remove license information even under the most free licenses (e.g. BSD-style licenses).
Post by: feflicker on August 10, 2004, 05:01:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Where the hell did you get that idea? You can't do anything with the source that goes against the license under which it is released. FBA's license includes a few restrictions, and so do most open-source licences. You can't, for instance, remove license information even under the most free licenses (e.g. BSD-style licenses). |
Jan_Klaassen, I understand your point of view. I think, in general, people are just frustrated with your reasoning for the restrictions. I know it is YOUR decision to decide how YOUR source is used, but I just believe that rules are meant to be broken... (I am a bit of a sociopath, as I think a lot of users of this board are...)
I just think you should be able to sleep at night, knowing that YOUR release of YOUR emulator does what you want it to do.
I think some of us just don't understand you pursuing GoGo on this (his builds of FBA has generated tremendous interest on the scene. I personally had never heard of FBA until FBA-XXX, and all this discussion got me to install it and see how great it is! And to clarify, I don't have the banned ROM's working, I just don't have the desire to play those few "extra" games. I like having that decision left to me, though!)...
To quote one of my heroes (loosely):
| QUOTE |
"What is with all these F'ing Rules. Rules... Shit. This is a Rock and Roll band, I don't want rules..." -Lars Ulrich from "Some Kind Of Monster" |
Now let's see how long it takes this thread to turn into an anti-Lars flame-fest! (Bastards, read the transcripts of what he actually said about Napster instead of the news blurbs. And read what he has said about the issue SINCE then!)
Post by: Vejita on August 10, 2004, 05:08:00 PM
People who implement and take part of "emulation ethics/politics" should be shot.
If you want to adhere to the LAW, you shouldn't be using roms and emulators in the first place.
That is also Nintendo's stance on emulation yet none of you care and continue to make emulators for the N64 (Surreal).
Let me tell you this, are Nintendo happy about N64 emu's even if the system is now dead and redundant?
Do none of you understand the copyright laws?
Its just as bad playing a year 2000 rom as it is playing a year 2003/2004 rom.
To all the people taking part in emulation ethics, GET A LIFE!
Post by: VampX on August 10, 2004, 05:19:00 PM
| QUOTE (feflicker @ Aug 11 2004, 03:04 AM) |
| Now let's see how long it takes this thread to turn into an anti-Lars flame-fest! |
Fire Bad!!
Post by: Manabyte on August 10, 2004, 05:22:00 PM
Post by: devlkore on August 10, 2004, 05:31:00 PM
Now, I may not agree with limiting which ROMs people can play, but you have to remember that the gaming and especially arcade side of the industry actually blames emu devs for why they aren't getting as much money as they want, even though in reality it's because of the advances in console technology, SNK using over a decade old hardware, bootleggers, arcade owners that think it's ok to replace every fighting game with slot machines, etc
The thing is, it doesn't remove any of the pressure that is on the devs for "ruining" the gaming industry.
We all know that we can play Metal Slug 3 and it's "officially" supported, yet Rage Of The Dragons isn't, even though I bet hardly any of us have seen a Rage Of The Dragons machine ever, but when SVC Chaos comes out on Xbox (I think it's due to at some point) and it sells like crap, SNK Playmore are gonna be all over people like FBA Team and it'd be worse if they supported emulating it (SVC), even though the truth is, SVC Chaos just isn't that good and most of us would probably rather play games that have been around for ages (Street Fighter Alpha 2/3, KOF98/98, Samurai Showdown 4, etc).
It may sound like I'm switching sides, but I'm not, I think we should all be able to play whatever, no matter how recent it is, especially since we do the same with GBA and PSX, but at the end of the day, I don't have to live with almost direct accusations from SNKP saying that because of something I did, they've lost $50,000 or whatever.
Just something to think about.
BYEEEEE!!
PS: Someday, maybe we'll all live in a completely free society where information is shared freely without restriction (that's not a dig at FBA Team, honestly) and in my opinion, the world will be a better place then. Until then, enjoy what you have got for free.
Post by: Likklebaer on August 10, 2004, 05:38:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| If you're using my emulator, because I say so. It's that simple |
Sorry I disagree. If I take the FBA source, alter it to my liking by adding drivers or whatever then recompile it, the resulting product doesn't belong to you any more than my Xbox belongs to Micro$oft. While I may acknowledge that you deserve the credit for its creation, once it's made publicly available and I purchase/download one for myself I'll feel justified in doing whatever I damn well like with it. That's what happens when you release something publicly.
And so I put to you the same question I put to lantus. Did you really think that the emu scene into which you released this Neo-Geo emulator, a scene based on illegal rom downloads and the violation of copyright laws, would respect your wishes on such ridiculous grounds just because 'you say so'? It may not be right, but you can't say that you didn't see it coming?
Post by: Prican24 on August 10, 2004, 05:45:00 PM
manto which does the fba-xxx builds already said the banned roms are gone as of the next build.
now if a mod of this forum would plz close this thread as theres no other point to address, whats done is done. get over it ppl
Post by: deathx88 on August 10, 2004, 05:51:00 PM
| QUOTE (VampX @ Aug 11 2004, 01:22 AM) |
| Fire Bad!! |
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!! *cries*
| QUOTE |
| Now let's see how long it takes this thread to turn into an anti-Lars flame-fest! (Bastards, read the transcripts of what he actually said about Napster instead of the news blurbs. And read what he has said about the issue SINCE then!) |
no, lars good
lars is awesome
yeah he did the napster thing, but if he didn't do it someone else would of
Post by: Manto on August 10, 2004, 06:19:00 PM
| QUOTE (devlkore @ Aug 11 2004, 12:34 AM) |
| ... SVC Chaos just isn't that good and most of us would probably rather play games that have been around for ages (Street Fighter Alpha 2/3, KOF98/98, Samurai Showdown 4, etc). ... |
SVC Chaos simply SUX. This "game" sux like ALL the SNK-Playmore games... and like any neogeo games after since kof 2000 (included).
Their true name should be Paymore or Playless...
Post by: VampX on August 10, 2004, 06:47:00 PM
| QUOTE (Manto @ Aug 11 2004, 04:22 AM) |
| SVC Chaos simply SUX. This "game" sux like ALL the SNK-Playmore games... and like any neogeo games after since kof 2000 (included). |
Are you saying that Kof2000 sucks cause its made by playmore?
cause it isnt, kof2000 was the last kof made by SNK.
It still sucks though..
98-4-life!!
Post by: devlkore on August 10, 2004, 07:08:00 PM
| QUOTE (VampX @ Aug 11 2004, 01:50 AM) |
| Are you saying that Kof2000 sucks cause its made by playmore? cause it isnt, kof2000 was the last kof made by SNK. It still sucks though.. 98-4-life!! |
I didn't think 2000 was that bad, I even play 2001 from time to time, but 98 is definately my favourite, followed by 99. Also, Rage Of The Dragons and Power Instinct 5 are ok, not for hardcore play, but occasionally it makes a nice change from the usual list of SNK and Capcom fighters.
I've just been playing NAM 1975, that game never gets boring, so I'd just like to show appreciation for it, to all the people that enable me to play these games on my Xbox, so
Jan, Lantus, TMaul, Dave, GoGoAckman, Manto and anyone else I forgot.
Post by: sp1200 on August 11, 2004, 02:27:00 AM
| QUOTE (Jan_Klaassen @ Aug 11 2004, 12:42 AM) |
It's easy: old arcade games no longer generate revenue, so having those playable doesn't hurt the developers. |
That isn't true: who is to say these "non revenue generating" games will not appear in a compilation of games on an xbox disc, or appear again as new games similar as to the classic nes games now available on gameboy advance?
Post by: Mephiska on August 11, 2004, 04:21:00 AM
close the source.
release to who you feel is worthy.
end of problem.
btw to those who made a statement about emulators being illegal.
here is the only case where reverse engineering a emulator would be illegal. *only if you developed it for a portable/handheld hardware.*
a mod needs to do this...
Post by: VampX on August 11, 2004, 04:45:00 AM
Post by: lantus on August 11, 2004, 06:04:00 AM
| QUOTE (rekcah2000a @ Aug 10 2004, 10:10 PM) |
| Lantus a attrapper la grosse depuis un petit bout de temps c est dommage qu il faut a chauqe fois qu ils cassent les gens. Gogo et Manto font du tres bon boulot il termine le boulot de Lantus ( il sort un emu et arrete de develloper apres deux versions.) Maintenant en enlevent les drivers pour les nouveau dump vous aller tuer votre site et le plaisir qu on des milliers de personne a utiliser fba-xxx. Soit tout le monde va reste a la version 02/08 ou d ici une semaine il y aura un fba-xxx2 cree par un singe puisque d apres Lantus meme un singe pourrais ajouter quelque chose a fba-x. En tout cas j ai pris les devant et je continuerais a compiler la version avec les nouveau dump et je continuerais a la foutre partout juste pour faire chier le monsieur qui se prends la tete parcequ il devellope trop d'emu xbox PS : PLZ Lantus drop Fba-x on abandonware other people have time to continue the devellopement you not |
PARSE ERROR?
Post by: lantus on August 11, 2004, 06:15:00 AM
| QUOTE (Manabyte @ Aug 10 2004, 04:58 PM) |
| Let me ask you this Mephiska: Did the FBA team respect the license and wishes of the original developers by creating the emu? |
what the hell are you talking about moron? They credited every author and released sourcecode as part of the various licenses used for the various parts of FBA in their policy.
Post by: devlkore on August 11, 2004, 06:46:00 AM
| QUOTE (lantus @ Aug 11 2004, 01:06 PM) |
| no, im very serious i hate it, ive always hated it - yet i still adhere to it to keep the peace Is it to much to ask end users to do the same with respect to emulator specific licenses? i think not |
Ok, cool, I can respect that. As I said in my previous post, I have a personal conflict, which is that I'd like to be able to play all neogeo games, so I am/was glad to have access to them, but I'd also rather not piss off the FBA devs because I'd like them to enjoy their coding and continue to do so (especially if it's open source).
LA!
BYEEEEE!!
Post by: GLiTcH on August 11, 2004, 07:20:00 AM
..... I for one would like to see new releases of fbax/xxx... Post by: Prican24 on August 11, 2004, 12:01:00 PM
| QUOTE (GLiTcH @ Aug 11 2004, 10:23 AM) |
| fbax/xxx are awesome emus...... like I said b4.. If you recompile your own fbax/xxx for the banned roms.. keep it to your self ..... I for one would like to see new releases of fbax/xxx... |
i second that
Post by: devlkore on August 11, 2004, 12:11:00 PM
| QUOTE (Prican24 @ Aug 11 2004, 07:04 PM) |
| i second that |
I'll third that because only a retard would rather have easy access to SVC Chaos, KOF2003, Metal Slug 5 and Samurai Showdown 5 over Psikyo games.
Even though I like the occasional game of Power Instinct 5 and Rage Of The Dragons, they're nothing compared to the wonderful selection of Psikyo shooters.
Post by: Prican24 on August 11, 2004, 02:07:00 PM
Power Instinct 4: Matrimelee is the one on neogeo
Post by: sammaza on August 11, 2004, 02:41:00 PM
---> http://www.pixagogo.com/4126245911
dont make the monster mad...
and people who think these games sux should play 1 on 1 vs me on my cab...SVC,kof2k3 own!
Post by: Dai_UK on August 11, 2004, 02:42:00 PM
Everyone Shut Up About banned this or that - Don't P*ss them off so we never see Psyko Support
Post by: sammaza on August 11, 2004, 03:04:00 PM
Post by: deathx88 on August 11, 2004, 03:13:00 PM
Post by: TMaul on August 11, 2004, 05:48:00 PM
| QUOTE (Likklebaer @ Aug 11 2004, 01:41 AM) |
| And so I put to you the same question I put to lantus. Did you really think that the emu scene into which you released this Neo-Geo emulator, a scene based on illegal rom downloads and the violation of copyright laws, would respect your wishes on such ridiculous grounds just because 'you say so'? It may not be right, but you can't say that you didn't see it coming? |
Well, We did see it coming.
At the time I personally thought there might be a chance that xbox "scene" might be a bit more respectful but that was shot down pretty quickly. It turns out that most of the non-developing/programming xbox scene is full of stupid fucks.
And another thing, the FBA source is quite handy for learning about emulation. If after learning from it all someone can add is a few 20 line driver definitions, they shouldn't release it out of embarresment, let alone because they have been told not too. And I have seen what happens when people don't listen to what they are told, and often it doesn't end too well for them or their reputations.
I just thought I better add my 2pence worth before this thread is binned, not that anyone will actually read it or give a shit.
Post by: devlkore on August 11, 2004, 05:56:00 PM
| QUOTE (TMaul @ Aug 12 2004, 12:51 AM) |
| Well, We did see it coming. At the time I personally thought there might be a chance that xbox "scene" might be a bit more respectful but that was shot down pretty quickly. It turns out that most of the non-developing/programming xbox scene is full of stupid fucks. And another thing, the FBA source is quite handy for learning about emulation. If after learning from it all someone can add is a few 20 line driver definitions, they shouldn't release it out of embarresment, let alone because they have been told not too. And I have seen what happens when people don't listen to what they are told, and often it doesn't end too well for them or their reputations. I just thought I better add my 2pence worth before this thread is binned, not that anyone will actually read it or give a shit. |
Remember that for every time "I can't get t3h Met4l Slug 5 2 werk in teh Final BUrn Alph4 H4X0rS XXx h3x plus!!!!" gets posted, there will always be hundreds of people that don't care about the "banned games" and completely love your emu that don't post any comments at all.
Post by: sammaza on August 11, 2004, 06:16:00 PM
Post by: VampX on August 11, 2004, 06:53:00 PM
Post by: Prican24 on August 11, 2004, 08:36:00 PM
Post by: devlkore on August 12, 2004, 03:23:00 AM
| QUOTE (lantus @ Aug 12 2004, 02:05 AM) |
| psykio in mameox runs quite nicely - whats the issue? |
Is that a hint
Post by: Likklebaer on August 12, 2004, 12:54:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Well, We did see it coming. At the time I personally thought there might be a chance that xbox "scene" might be a bit more respectful but that was shot down pretty quickly. It turns out that most of the non-developing/programming xbox scene is full of stupid fucks. And another thing, the FBA source is quite handy for learning about emulation. If after learning from it all someone can add is a few 20 line driver definitions, they shouldn't release it out of embarresment, let alone because they have been told not too. And I have seen what happens when people don't listen to what they are told, and often it doesn't end too well for them or their reputations. I just thought I better add my 2pence worth before this thread is binned, not that anyone will actually read it or give a shit. |
Well I'm glad at least somebody other than me considered my question valid enough to answer. But if they haven't binned this thread by now I don't think they're going to.
| QUOTE |
| Everyone Shut Up About banned this or that - Don't P*ss them off so we never see Psyko Support |
Expressing things that I believe in, however trivial the issue might be, is far more important to me than any kind of support in any emulator. So that's where you can stick your 'Psyko Support'.
Besides arguing is soooo much more fun than Psikyo games.
Post by: devlkore on August 12, 2004, 01:16:00 PM
| QUOTE (Likklebaer @ Aug 12 2004, 07:57 PM) |
| arguing is soooo much more fun than Psikyo games. |
HEY! That's only half true.
Post by: Jan_Klaassen on August 12, 2004, 02:27:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Expressing things that I believe in, however trivial the issue might be, is far more important to me than any kind of support in any emulator. So that's where you can stick your 'Psyko Support'. |
Bah, whatever people say or think won't ever make us withold any drivers. I've already mentioned what the consequences of all the twits releasing fba builds with new games enabled are, and the Psikyo 68020 based hardware that fba emulates now isn't affected. Neither would the SH2 based Psikyo hardware be affected, but then I've not even started with that.
And yes, we did expect some twits couldn't resist releasing builds with new games, especially since it violates the license. It's still disappointing when people choose to act like such total twits, whether you expect it or not.
Post by: Prican24 on August 12, 2004, 02:34:00 PM