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OG Xbox Forums => Software Forums => Emulators => Topic started by: feflicker on May 18, 2003, 02:19:00 PM

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: feflicker on May 18, 2003, 02:19:00 PM

Let me first say "THANK YOU" to everyone working on porting an N64 emu to the xbox... Your hard work is very much appreciated :D

I have yet to see a common place where we can post our ideas/comments/suggestions/requests for the N64 development that is going on.

Since I had a few things to say, rather than finding all of the threads, x-posting, and hoping one of the programmers reads it, I decided to start this thread ;)

Finally, please don't turn this into a flame session. This is for "positive" feedback only. :rolleyes:

Things I would like to see:
1. Adaptoid Plugin: I have an adaptoid, and it works like a charm for playing N64 on the PC. It would be awesome if I could plug in my N64 controllers!

2. Rumble Pack Support: I don't know if anyone has talked about this yet, but rumble pack support would be awesome... But no rush, we would like sound first :jester:

3. Save State: I haven't tried any of the N64 emus for xbox yet, but if they don't already, save state support would be nice, since I am one of the people that tend to use that feature a lot in my other emulators.

4. Universal GFX, Sound: One thing that makes it hard for people to play N64 on the PC, is that you have to switch GFX and Sound plugins so frequently... I hope the next generation of N64 emulator can handle GFX/Sound for all games instead of having to switch between carts... (Of course, this is like asking for the N64 emu to also play PS2 games, but it is worth mentioning :P )

5. Rom's that don't work: Instead of loading the game, and it crashing, it would be nice if the Emu told you something like "This ROM not supported", and didn't even try to launch the game. Maybe even had unsupported ROMs in a different color in the list like PJ64.

6. INI Files: Let's have (1) team build the INI file. That way their is only (1) file that you have to update from time to time, instead of finding stuff like "Lukes N64X INI" or "Daves N64X INI", etc. Maybe the developers can provide an email address to email game compatability info to, so that the "official" INI distributed with the prog can be maintained.

Also, NONE of the PC N64 Emulators supported all the carts. PJ64, in conjunction with several plugins was close, but no cigar. After the Emu is ported, is their going to be additional programming to get the rest of the ROMs working? If so, why didn't someone finish work on the PC, and then start porting it, so that in the meantime we would have a fully functional PC N64 Emulator? (Just something that was on the brain the other day that I hadn't heard mentioned yet...)

Once again, thanks to everyone working on this! :beer:

Anyone else have something to say?

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: Jse on May 18, 2003, 03:39:00 PM

the reason you havent seen a place to put your ideas forward is it was deleted

it was all nice and going well ideas coming from all over the place

then a guy named "cyrus64" entered and stired up legality issus of the whole scene then their was a big donations and commercial gain argument then a gpl argument then a my dad's harder than you dad my house is bigger than your house...... so it got locked and deleted

This post has been edited by jse: May 18 2003, 10:40 PM

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: kezzz on May 18, 2003, 03:52:00 PM

shouldn't the source for deadalis be released :lol: :lol:
j/k
Actully i don't even know if it is under the GPU.
Just ignore me and my rants :lol:
:rotfl:

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: DuDeR MaN on May 18, 2003, 06:09:00 PM

I said this in my last post so I'll do a little copy and pasting...

"is there or would there be a way to save a control setting for each game, so when you load the game those settings auto-load? You obviously wouldn't want the same controls for goldeneye as you do for mario. Also is it possible to replace the X and Y axis with buttons?

for those who want Halo controls for goldeneye...

N64 XBOX
Z = Right Trigger
B = X
A = Y or A
R&L = Left Trigger
up/down C = Right Thumbstick Y axis
left/right C = Left Thumbstick X axis
X axis = Right Thumbstick X axis
Y axis = Left Thumbstick Y axis

I'm not 100% sure but I believe these same settings go for Perfect Dark.

This is why I am concerned about the button configuration. I was playing goldeneye on my 64 today and then picked up my xbox controller to see if there would be 1 good config for all games... my conclusion... the n64 controller is so unique that you need fully editable controls which include X/Y axis being editable. "

and the rumble support would be nice too.

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: farmerfred on May 18, 2003, 06:22:00 PM

lol u people dont even have a fully working n64 emu yet and your already wanting more. :lol: just be satisfied with what u have.

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: feflicker on May 18, 2003, 06:25:00 PM

QUOTE

Well, let's just stick to suggestions, requests, etc. No need to get into the GPL, specific releases, etc. so that it does not become a legal issue... ;)

Just put your thoughts here, and hopefully someone in a development capacity will read it and think about it...

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: SSSSSmokey on May 18, 2003, 07:01:00 PM

Yea, a GREAT PJ64 plugin I got let me map all buttons to everything on my Cheap-ass axispad, and it was great. It also came with tons of different setting files for different games, like Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Conker and such. They were for keyboard and mouse config, but it was cool anyways.

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: rhawk79 on May 18, 2003, 07:26:00 PM

QUOTE (DuDeR MaN @ May 19 2003, 02:02 AM)

yes, here is what you can do. load up a game, set your controls, and then do a save state with the emulator. then load the state everytime you play the game. you can do this for each game. Yes it's tedious but it's better than nothing, and probably still quicker than mapping them everytime.

Now, if you could create a default save state for each game and have the emulator load the state automatically when you load that game, now that would be nice.

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: Iriez on May 18, 2003, 09:23:00 PM

QUOTE (feflicker @ May 18 2003, 04:12 PM)

Things I would like to see:
1. Adaptoid Plugin: I have an adaptoid, and it works like a charm for playing N64 on the PC. It would be awesome if I could plug in my N64 controllers!

Isnt that a hardware modification? Asking software developers to make a xbox hardware add-on wont accomplish anything.

QUOTE

3. Save State: I haven't tried any of the N64 emus for xbox yet, but if they don't already, save state support would be nice, since I am one of the people that tend to use that feature a lot in my other emulators.

As i already said in my pinned topic, there is save state.

QUOTE

4. Universal GFX, Sound: One thing that makes it hard for people to play N64 on the PC, is that you have to switch GFX and Sound plugins so frequently... I hope the next generation of N64 emulator can handle GFX/Sound for all games instead of having to switch between carts... (Of course, this is like asking for the N64 emu to also play PS2 games, but it is worth mentioning :P )

The PJ64 will be as universal as it can possibly be. My hope is that the launching method (i.e. which plugin) will be hard coded in, instead of giving you a selection. We'll see if the guy will do it.

QUOTE

6. INI Files: Let's have (1) team build the INI file. That way their is only (1) file that you have to update from time to time, instead of finding stuff like "Lukes N64X INI" or "Daves N64X INI", etc. Maybe the developers can provide an email address to email game compatability info to, so that the "official" INI distributed with the prog can be maintained.

There will only be one ini file, and that will be distributed with the beta. I have spent most of my beta testing going through that ini and making note of what games do/dont play, and with what issues, so you should be able to tell whether it crashes or not before you try to load. Note - I dont have jap, nor could i care about jap roms, so the ini really wont have any notes on those country specific roms =p (Unless there was a US/EU version aswell, then it will have notes)

QUOTE

Also, NONE of the PC N64 Emulators supported all the carts. PJ64, in conjunction with several plugins was close, but no cigar. After the Emu is ported, is their going to be additional programming to get the rest of the ROMs working? If so, why didn't someone finish work on the PC, and then start porting it, so that in the meantime we would have a fully functional PC N64 Emulator? (Just something that was on the brain the other day that I hadn't heard mentioned yet...)

It doesnt just work like that. Think about it for a second, if the guru's who created this emulator cannot get so and so game working, or fix so and so problem, do you think a non-native random developer can just pick up the sources and fix things? Very unlikely.

Keep in mind that the xbox has memory issues, so unless spends a extrodinary amount of time implementing xbox friendly virtual memory into the emulator, it will never be up to par with the PC release. Read My Reply about virtual memory and the xbox. Keep in mind the preformance of the emulator is also dependant upon the processing capabilities of your PC. Keep in mind aswell that some roms have "Core Note=high system requirement" , so the xbox is unlikely to play these efficiently. Just getting ROM's to work on the xbox in the first place is task enough before you start tackling playing roms that DONT work on the pc version :lol:

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: CyRUS64 on May 18, 2003, 09:47:00 PM

In essence, although everyone would love 100% compat. emulators it just doesn't work that way. Its taken many many years to get snes, genesis emus to the compat.levels we take for granted today, and they are low-level emulated.
The n64 has some rather powerful and nifty co-processors - the rsp and dsp - to low-level emulate these would require a complete beast of a piece of h/w, and thus all n64 emus by standard high-level emulate the display lists and audio lists received. Since game developers were able to develop their own microprograms to run on these co-processors to process the lists as they wished, different microprograms need to be detected and emulated individually. Fortunately there are a few standard ones, since I don't think Nintendo ever gave out the full docs other than to a few 'elite' companies like Rare, but it does mean that achieving perfect compat. is far from easy. However the system setup means that some processing that on other consoles would be done by the main cpu, can actually be totally intercepted and done at high-speed, allowing n64 emulators to achieve extraordinary levels of speed on comparatively meagre hardware. (They can surpass the '10x' standard for emulation on a target system)

Edit: Re:adaptoid, does x-box not support usb controllers? It would of course require a custom adaptoid driver but it'd still be a s/w only hack. (It may just be easier to get a h/w n64 -> xbox adaptor if they exist though!)

This post has been edited by CyRUS64: May 19 2003, 04:49 AM

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: feflicker on May 18, 2003, 10:33:00 PM

IRIEZ:

QUOTE

Isnt that a hardware modification? Asking software developers to make a xbox hardware add-on wont accomplish anything.

It is a piece of hardware, but you need an input plugin to use it. I was asking if anyone was working on the input plugin, or "driver", for the adaptoid. It is basically a N64-->USB adapter, so plugging it into the xbox is easy with the xbox controller-->usb adapter ;)

QUOTE

As i already said in my pinned topic, there is save state

Sorry, I thought I had read everything, but like I said, I haven't tried any of the Emu's yet, so I didn't know.

QUOTE

My hope is that the launching method (i.e. which plugin) will be hard coded in, instead of giving you a selection.

Cool. I was thinking the same thing after I posted this... Just have the EMU pick the appropriate settings based on the cart. :ph34r:

QUOTE

if the guru's who created this emulator cannot get so and so game working, or fix so and so problem, do you think a non-native random developer can just pick up the sources and fix things?

Since I didn't know any of these guys, for all I know the projects were dropped prematurely due to lack of funding, time, etc. I know what is currently being done is "porting", but after the porting is done, are there plans to further improve the application? That is what I was getting at, sorry if it seemed a tad confusing :rolleyes:

QUOTE

Just getting ROM's to work on the xbox in the first place is task enough before you start tackling playing roms that DONT work on the pc version

Amen! I am just so damn excited to see this coming together. If this ever works as good as what I already have on my PC, I will be more than satisfied :D

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CyRUS64

Thanks for the technical info you provided.

I understand the 10/1 processing ratio, etc. with emulation, and I also know it will never be perfect. It is just my hopes that the people coding don't have pre-conceived notions that it will *not* be perfect, for fear that this paradigm will cast a bad omen over the project :( I do a little programming, nothing near your work, but I always at least try to get it perfect, and if I fail, it must have been "impossible" :lol:

QUOTE

does x-box not support usb controllers? It would of course require a custom adaptoid driver but it'd still be a s/w only hack. (It may just be easier to get a h/w n64 -> xbox adaptor if they exist though!)

Exactly. It should only be a s/w driver that needs to be written. I am not sure if the input plugin for the adaptoid is open-source, but since it will run on a PC with only directx controls, I am sure something could be done, and implemented into one of these emu's so that the adaptoid owners can use their N64 controllers... (Of course, this will be something to think about after the actual Emu is finished!) I have yet to see a h/w N64-->Xbox controller port adapter, but if I find one I will definately buy it!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE

u people dont even have a fully working n64 emu yet and your already wanting more

I just felt, due to the extraordinary progress being made, that it was time to start talking about these things... Why wait until the coding is done, and it is more difficult to work in these types of things? Mega-Props to the coders who have been kicking arse :beer:

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: feflicker on June 09, 2003, 09:05:00 PM

I know this post is pretty much dead, but since I started it, why not add to it instead of opening a *new* one :D

After getting the new PJ64 port, and having the other DaedalusX port(s), here is a new request:

- Add an option file to specify a different rom directory (e.g. the rom directory used by Daedalus or another emulator...)

I know it is piddly, and worthless at this point, but *soon* we will have a few emulators to choose from for N64, and it would be a nice option.

If it is already being implemented, ignore this post... :blink:

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: rothbart on June 10, 2003, 12:38:00 PM

QUOTE (feflicker @ May 18 2003, 11:12 PM)

Finally, please don't turn this into a flame session. This is for "positive" feedback only. :rolleyes:

Things I would like to see:

I'd like to see SAMBA or some other networked support for ROMs. HD space is very precious on the Xbox, but relatively easy/cheap for the PC... I know one of the SNES emus is adding SAMBA support for the SNES ROMs. I basically think that idea should be extended to all the XBOX emulators... :)

--rothbart

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: feflicker on June 17, 2003, 09:39:00 PM

I know this has basically become "Feflickers Requests For The N64 Emulator", but I am still going to add to this, rather than creating a new thread. I figured more people would have ideas to put into the mix for the developers...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not to complain, as I am eternally grateful to the developers, but why does almost everybody require the "default.xbe" filename to be unchanged?

Hardly anyone uses these emulators right off of a bootable dvd-r, without a multi-game menu xbe anyway... Requiring the file to be called "default.xbe" eliminates the possibility of *sharing* emu applications in the same directory. And since no one ever implements rom folder paths, (untill the 100th revision of the app), it makes things difficult. It seems to me like this could be an easy thing to get around, just have to account for it at some point in the process, and a lot of people would be happy (even more happy than we already are!). Why not name it "start.xbe" or something that no one else is using?

If it is not technically possible to do this, then I understand... But if you can mount drives in boXplorer or XBMP so handily, why cant we specify full rom directory paths in most of the emulator applications, the apps that need it most! (Since almost no emu out there supports every cart, and you have to frequently use multiple emulators of the same console...)

Oh yeah, almost forgot, I think it would be cool to have a "shutdown" and "reboot" option directly in the emulator. It would be easy and small to implement, but it would be great for those of us who run these apps from disc...

Just some more ideas/thoughts to throw into the fray. Happy coding and thanks again for all the awesome developments over the past week!

Title: Requests For The N64 Emulator
Post by: pelago on June 18, 2003, 01:46:00 AM

Most people use the AutoAdd feature in EvoX dash (and presumably equivalents in other dashboards) which search directories for files called default.xbe. If the emulators came packaged with the xbe called something else, we would be flooded with people asking why they can't see their emulator in their dashboard after copying it across.

I think people who want to do 'advanced' stuff like sharing rom folders can figure out how to rename a file, but we need to keep it as simple as possible for the less advanced users.

EDIT: Just seen your posts in another thread why renaming the default.xbe isn't perfect (as when you quit a rom it cannot find the xbe and so it hangs). Hmm, that's a tricky one. I still think that there will be overall less problems for the majority of users if the files are named default.xbe, because of the AutoAdd thing mentioned above. As for sharing rom directories, I guess we'll have to wait until the emulators are updated to support configurable paths.

pelago

This post has been edited by pelago: Jun 18 2003, 08:55 AM