Post by: boflc on December 20, 2010, 09:26:00 AM
QUOTE(Madhatta @ Dec 20 2010, 10:24 AM) 
First: I have some burned out (newer) 360's and was wondering if I would be able to at least read the NAND from them to use as a test?
yes -- ASSuming that it isn't the nand that is "burned out". they'll need to be plugged in (powered off) and draw idle power for you to be able to read their nands.
QUOTE
I know these newer burned out boards can't be written to but was wondering if the read would work so I can make sure my soldering skills are up to speed.
you could write to them, but there'd be no point as they wouldn't boot.
QUOTE
Second: Since I have a few should I get set up with the NAND-X option or should I just go buy the parts from radio shack and wire it my self? The NAND-X looks pretty slick but a little pricey, plus 10 bucks extra for each box.
i think you'd get a different answer over on team-x's forums
. i would just buy a usb spi flasher - it'll be the same speed as the nand-x. you could go to radio shack and build yourself an lpt cable, tho....QUOTE
Third: Looks like I have two major options for dashboard? Which one is recommended?
you only have more than one option if you don't care about the current dashboard of the system. 8955=xbr, 9199/12611=freeboot. that said, my first instinct was to you have only one option: freeboot.
others can answer question 4.
QUOTE
Fifth: If/when I get some of these boxes JTAG'd should I just remove the DVD drive and operate off HDD? Are there any downsides to this? More difficult to prep games anything that I should consider?
at least you are interested in protecting your system
. please make sure inflow matches outflow -- e.g, use mesh over the dvd bezel. you'll need to do a couple of things to let the system operate without the dvd. for the sake of references, i now provide a pointer to a pointer to a pointer, here: http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=725820look for my links to backtrack to how to do it.
Post by: Madhatta on December 20, 2010, 12:47:00 PM
So definitely go with freeboot though as it has the latest dash available.
Post by: SphtKr76 on December 20, 2010, 01:51:00 PM
QUOTE(Madhatta @ Dec 20 2010, 07:24 AM)
Hi I just picked up a few Xenon 360's that have super old dashboards (ex: 2858). Anyway, assuming the CB version is correct I am hoping to JTAG at least a couple of them. I have not performed a JTAG before and had some questions.
First: I have some burned out (newer) 360's and was wondering if I would be able to at least read the NAND from them to use as a test? I know these newer burned out boards can't be written to but was wondering if the read would work so I can make sure my soldering skills are up to speed. I have installed all types of mod-chips in original xbox's and done drive flashing on 360's so far but just don't want to waste any of these as I haven't done a ton of soldering in awhile.
Second: Since I have a few should I get set up with the NAND-X option or should I just go buy the parts from radio shack and wire it my self? The NAND-X looks pretty slick but a little pricey, plus 10 bucks extra for each box.
Third: Looks like I have two major options for dashboard? Which one is recommended?
Next questions have to do with box cooling:
Fourth: Does anyone know where I can get a few of the 2nd gen GPU heatsinks for a good price? People sell them on Ebay but kind of expensive if you are looking to get more than one set. I am pretty sure all these boxes have the first gen and just for staying power would like to throw the 2nd gen on with the extended heat pipe. I have been adding a 120mm fan to the top as well as cutting out the back cage for better air flow. These things combined with the 2nd gen heatsink have been working well so far. Oh doing southbridge clamps, uniclamp and the HANA/ANA heatsinks as well.
Fifth: If/when I get some of these boxes JTAG'd should I just remove the DVD drive and operate off HDD? Are there any downsides to this? More difficult to prep games anything that I should consider? The reason I was thinking is that it would allow me to install two fans into the 360 with one blowing directly over the GPU.
I probably have more questions but will start with these and add to it if I can think of more. I am not doing this as a business or anything, just a hobby so trying to keep it as low cost as possible while still making boxes that are hopefully going to last.
Thanks guys!
1. Yes, practicing on a bum console is a great way to increase your soldering skills, and make sure your PC setup is working well.
2. Get a USB flasher, you'll pay about $40 but it will pay for itself if you're doing more than one. And once you kow how to do it, you'll do as many as you can find
3. Use the newest freeboot. Get BestPigs toolbox to make your nand image with.
4. I generally don't sweat putting the extra heatsinks on, fan speed is your best friend when trying to get temps down. Use FanSpeedFlasher, you can set them to about any speed you want. I've found that 60% is ideal for Jaspers, 70 for Falcons and 80 for Xenons. Xenons especially need it, they idle over 80c, but will stay around 60 even during heavy gameplay with 80% fans.
5. I prefer to keep a DVD drive in my Jtags, just for installing games to NXE, running homebrew off of, etc. Its certainly not needed, but once again fan speed is the best way to get temps down, IMHO. 2.5" HDD's are cheap enough now that you can just slap a 500 on it and not bother with using an external drive that requires extra wiring and stuff.
All answers IMHO, of course
QUOTE(Madhatta @ Dec 20 2010, 09:46 AM)
Thanks for the answers. Some follow on stuff:
For the NAND that should work fine then to make sure my solder job is allowing the NAND to be read and written to. Thanks. I don't think that is what is burned on the system. It's throwing an E79 error never having the NAND messed with. I have another that is throwing three red lights like a minute after it's turned on so I'll see with that one.
I was looking at the USB SPI FLasher. Do you have to solder one into each box or how does that work? I realize (I think) that if I made my own I would have to desolder and resolder for each box but am looking for the easiest (cheapest way) to do multiple boxes. Maybe the USB SPI flasher has something I am not seeing but it looks like it is a permanent addition? Although it looks nice for reflashing in the future as it doesn't seem like you need to open the device. Any recommendations on where to buy one? I saw one some place for 20 bucks I think it was. Do these devices cover the connection points for the NAND and the JTAG or do you have to do something else for the JTAG portion?
SO freeboot is the way to go? I had seen some news posts about Freestyle dash on the front page but hadn't really looked into it. I will check out freeboot some more. Have seen it mentioned but haven't read much. Edit: looks like FSD is part of the freeboot package?
I will keep the mesh over the bezel in mind when removing the dvd drive. Thank you for the link as well. I was reading through a few posts on the forum about operating without a drive and it seems like kind of a hassle so far. edit 2: ah ok I was reading through those threads before and don't really understand what the problem the guy is having. He checked the box to operate without a dvd drive yet it wasn't booting to the right option when he had the drive out.
Anyway I am still in the research phase so all the help is much appreciated. If I have any terminology wrong I apologize just trying to take it all in.
I bought mine from the BST section here from kipper2k
http://kipper2k.com/usbflash.html
That shows you how it works. Really, once you have freeboot up and running you shouldn't ever need to reflash the nand with USB, you can use flash360 (runs from inside xexmenu off a USB stick) to update when new dashboards come out.
Post by: SphtKr76 on December 21, 2010, 09:53:00 AM
QUOTE(Madhatta @ Dec 20 2010, 06:06 PM)
SphtKr76: Thanks so much for all the advice.
With the USB flasher I am not seeing the steps for wiring up the JTAG portion. Do I need to buy extra stuff for that? Do you just de-solder this device when done?
The fan speeds can be adjusted once you have the device JTAG'd?
You said once it's flashed there is not much you need to do. You don't need the NAND to install the newest version of freeboot? It seems like a new version comes out whenever there is a new dashboard revision right? Maybe I am still unclear on the differences between XBR/freeboot and something like freestyle dash.
thanks again. Oh and these are Xenon's
Yes, that page I linked only shows you how to wire up the USB flasher. Yes, once you are done reading/writing to the nand you simply unsolder the wires and set it aside, it can be used limitless times. Once you have freeboot up and running you won't need to use the USB flasher anymore on that console, you can use a program called flash360 to write new nand images to your 360.
You can build the new images with BestPigs toolbox, using your original nand dump to create the new one.
Freeboot replicates the factory MS dash, it looks and acts just like a normal 360 (except for all the cool homebrew you can run) Freestyle is a totally different style of dash that you can run once you have freeboot up and running.
You will need to buy a few extra things to wire up the Jtag portion on your Xenon, luckily for you the Xenon wiring is WAAAY easier than Falcon/Jasper. The solder points are huge in comparison.
Feel free to PM me with any questions, I was once new to this just like you, and it can be tough to find what you are looking for.
Post by: Madhatta on December 21, 2010, 11:25:00 AM
Looks like I just need some wire and these switching diodes?
Switching Diodes
I have some 30 AWG wire. Do I need something a bit larger? Oh and what is the purpose of these switching diodes? I am having difficulty finding that information. Is the JTAG connection left in the box once complete?
Then I was looking at buying the flasher from here:
USB SPI Flasher
20 bucks seems like a good price. Can't find a link to buy the one you sent. Went to the forum link and just see instructions for how to make one. I am not that good
. Edit: nm. that one I linked to doesn't have a connector and you have to solder the wires to the programmer and the board. That doesn't seem ideal. I will look around a little more for the purchase link on the page you sent.Lastly, the only soldering I have done on these boards is at the power supply to wire in the fans and I can not get the solder to melt with a 15 or a 30 watt soldering iron. I need to pick up some flux but don't know if this is going to make any difference on the melting point. Are the JTAG/NAND points any softer? I am going to test it out tonight on one of my burned motherboards but I don't want to be holding the soldering iron up to the board for too long.
I remember the original Xbox motherboard having nice solder points that would flow easily.
I decided to post here in the hopes that yours (or anyone else's) answers might help someone digging around in the future since it seems like we're covering about everything to get started.
Thanks !
Post by: dennisv9 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:00 PM
QUOTE(Madhatta @ Dec 21 2010, 07:25 PM)
I am looking at this picture for the JTAG portion
Looks like I just need some wire and these switching diodes?
Switching Diodes
I have some 30 AWG wire. Do I need something a bit larger? Oh and what is the purpose of these switching diodes? I am having difficulty finding that information. Is the JTAG connection left in the box once complete?
Then I was looking at buying the flasher from here:
USB SPI Flasher
20 bucks seems like a good price. Can't find a link to buy the one you sent. Went to the forum link and just see instructions for how to make one. I am not that good
. Edit: nm. that one I linked to doesn't have a connector and you have to solder the wires to the programmer and the board. That doesn't seem ideal. I will look around a little more for the purchase link on the page you sent.Lastly, the only soldering I have done on these boards is at the power supply to wire in the fans and I can not get the solder to melt with a 15 or a 30 watt soldering iron. I need to pick up some flux but don't know if this is going to make any difference on the melting point. Are the JTAG/NAND points any softer? I am going to test it out tonight on one of my burned motherboards but I don't want to be holding the soldering iron up to the board for too long.
I remember the original Xbox motherboard having nice solder points that would flow easily.
I decided to post here in the hopes that yours (or anyone else's) answers might help someone digging around in the future since it seems like we're covering about everything to get started.
Thanks !
does it matter what the purpose of the switching diode is...? as long as it works, right... there is another wiring diagram on the internet, that also should work for xenons (aud_clamp method). apparantly the new wiring diagram only activates the jtag for as long as it is necessary (during boot); whereas the diodes wiring keep it running from start. i only use the diode method (xenon, zephyr and falcon). works right for me always.
15 or 30 watt is more then enough; i use both. but if your soldering skills are not all that well, be aware that a 30 watt solder iron CAN burn of solderpoints and via's. so be a little bit careful with that.
xenon's are easy to jtag; the picture you posted are the most easy point to solder. you cannot burn any of those solder points of; the other consoles are more tricky (db1f1 point.....)
and yes; you have to keep the jtag wiring inside.
why buy any usb flasher? just flash via a lpt cable, make it yourself. either use the lpt connector off an old lpt cable; or better, buy such a (solder) lpt connector at your radio shack. wire it up (use the 100 ohms resistors and a diode) and you are good to go. you only need to read about 2 mb of data; is around 1 minutes. you only need to flash around 50 blocks, around 30 seconds. all flashing is done via xellous. but you can throw away money and buy an expensive usb flasher; the work stays the same. it doesn't matter if you use an lpt or an usb flasher; the soldering point are all the same. you need to solder 6 (or 7) wires into the board, and after a successful read of your 2 mb of nand and a successful write of xellous you need to desolder the wires out. the usb is only 'quicker' but that was in the old days that you had to write and read the whole nand which did take forever via lpt. but with the latest method of just dumping the first 2 mb to verify if you have an exploitable console and then writing xellous to your nand; the time you save isn't that much.
you can use any wire you like, 30 awg, 24 awg. i use all kinds of wire (i prefer the single stranded copper wires;which i take out of an cat5 UTP cable. really nice to solder with that single strand wire). but you can use whatever you have around
some solder points are indeed more difficult to solder, especially if they are ground. all ground is connected to the copper plating; so for ground wires to solder you really need to heat up the solder point quite well since a lot of heat is dissipated via the copper plating.(hence i use a 30 watt solder iron, and not a 15 watt solder iron)
and yes, the good old days with the old xbox. they were really easy to solder, via's and solderpoints where really big and easy to solder... the did get a lot smaller on the 360's....
good luck with your jtag's
Post by: Madhatta on December 21, 2010, 04:55:00 PM
So you're saying to use this method or use another method for wiring it in? This one I posted keeps it running all the time? Is that bad?
I hadn't considered making my own LPT cable as it seems like another point where I could have failure my first time and not know if it was the soldering on the board or on the cable I made. I was just at radio shack and did not see any lpt connectors for sale and all the cables they have are like 40 bucks. Either way seems like radio shack would charge a lot for something that seems you could get a superior version of for around 25 bucks. I can then use any computer to hook it up to instead of the beast I use for flashing firmware. Also the two previos posters seemed to recommend the USB method.
OK, good to know on the wire. I have a roll of single strand copper here so that will work. I am assuming I want to keep those jtag cables as short as possible.
Thanks for the help!
Post by: Madhatta on December 21, 2010, 08:15:00 PM
I used non-spill flux from radio shack on everything and I guess I won't know how it went until I get the programmer but it looks good to me from what I can tell. I got the diodes the right way according to the diagram too.
Edit: Oh and I wired in one of the wires to the wrong hole on J1F1 by mistake which is why it has solder in it but I figure it shouldn't matter to leave that in there. Moved the wire obviously. Xbox still boots normally so ...
Post by: dennisv9 on December 22, 2010, 05:35:00 AM
i pay 2 euro for a complete lpt connector at my more then expensive diy electronics shop; so the prices you mention are quite high. 100 ohm resistors and the diodes sell for around 10 eurocent; so if you have wiring you can build your own lpt cable for around 3 euro.
now just solder up the remaining 7 wires (remember that if you solder the wires underneath the board; you have a little bit more space to work with. on the top side of the board there are a few capacitors that are close by). there is 1 ground wire (goes to header.. pin 13 is ground. you only need to solder pin 5 and pin 6). the ground (pin 13) one you don't have to solder. the whole casing and all screwholes are ground, so just wrap/tape your wire around the casing or screwhole
use this tutorial for flashing xellous
https://docs.google....mv5h_30dw33vpf4
Post by: Madhatta on December 22, 2010, 07:09:00 AM
The diodes and resistors are cheap and I may even have some 100 ohm resistors in my toolbox.
What is your recommendation for configuration of how the motherboard should be sitting and where the fans should be placed while doing the NAND dump and eventual re-write?
Post by: dennisv9 on December 23, 2010, 02:05:00 AM
QUOTE(Madhatta @ Dec 22 2010, 03:09 PM)
I will take a look again on radio shack's site dennisv9. I was blown away by how much they were charging but that was also a complete cable.
The diodes and resistors are cheap and I may even have some 100 ohm resistors in my toolbox.
What is your recommendation for configuration of how the motherboard should be sitting and where the fans should be placed while doing the NAND dump and eventual re-write?
for reading and writing your nand; you don't need any cooling. the xbox will not turn on at all; hence no cooling necessary. you only need to power the nand (by plugging the psu into the xbox); that is all.
to test whether you had a successful write to your xbox (xellous); the way i go about is to just take out the motherboard out of the casing (since i always solder the nand wiring to the underside of the board; since you have more space to work there (no capacitors in the way). i then put the motherboard on top of some piece of paper/magazine etc (to prevent short circuiting which might happen if you put it on a metal surface). and I put 2 * 12 volt computer fans onto the xbox (1 on the gpu, 1 on the cpu). from an old atx psu i took the 4 pin power connector (which also goes into the xbox); and soldered a few molex connectors (the one that are on my 12 volt computer fans) on it. it functions as an extension cable that is used to attach several 12 volt fans with molex connector. in this way i don't have to use the xbox 360's fan. but you can also use the 360's fan, only the power cable is shorter. hence you have less space to position it on both the cpu/gpu.
OR
power 12 volt fans externally; then you don't need the xbox fans/power connector at all.
Post by: SphtKr76 on December 23, 2010, 10:40:00 AM
Edit: On Xenons I usually use a single strand of solid CAT5 wire for the Jtag wiring, its the perfect size to push right into the holes.
Post by: brandogg on December 23, 2010, 11:58:00 PM