Post by: Goldeye on November 15, 2009, 05:55:00 PM
It seems to me there are two decent theories for people using verified discs getting banned:
1. Firmware timings -- stealth-checking routines delay security responses from ix fw, enough for ms to detect.
2. Modding process detection -- Flag set when 360 is booted without the DVD drive connected
I've seen the first mentioned frequently in threads, and the second much less so although my own experiences seem to indicate it's a possible cause.
So I have two questions maybe someone can answer:
1. Do the ix firmwares perform any checks on original discs (that could reveal the fw's latency)
If so, then it'd seem to go against the ban-for-timing theory. If not, it's seem to support it. (Based on unbanned 1.6 ix that only plays originals)
2. Does nonstealth fw like 1.4 have any drawbacks, other than the risk of unverified discs, and lack of compatibility for new drives.
In other words, should nonstealth 1.4 be as safe as the discs are?
Post by: Goldeye on November 15, 2009, 06:17:00 PM
Has anyone checked the latencies on the security responses? Is there software out there to elicit security responses from a drive? How about documentation about it, that might be used to make such a test setup?
Post by: chorizo1 on November 15, 2009, 06:22:00 PM
QUOTE(WBones @ Nov 15 2009, 07:00 PM) 
stealth checks seem to be what MS is able to detect
C4eva has said the same thing i think.. anyway you're right newbie chat...........
Post by: orlandomodder on November 15, 2009, 06:34:00 PM
QUOTE(chorizo1 @ Nov 15 2009, 08:22 PM) 
C4eva has said the same thing i think.. anyway you're right newbie chat...........
moved, to newbie chat who the heck will see it now?
Post by: tequiller on November 15, 2009, 07:05:00 PM
Post by: WBones on November 15, 2009, 07:17:00 PM
QUOTE(tequiller @ Nov 15 2009, 08:05 PM)
Two BenQ's on 1.4 non stealth, both not banned
So far I've seen approximately 9 people with 1.4 non-stealth that have not been banned and 0 that have been banned.
Kinda funny if it was the stealth checks that ended up getting us caught
This makes me wonder if and when c4eva releases Lite Touch (which is essentially non-stealth firmware for the Lite-On) if he'll just say for everyone else to use 1.4 non-stealth in the meantime
Post by: orlandomodder on November 15, 2009, 08:18:00 PM
but on a more serious note.
I think i will be modding my first xbox to 1.4
i wish i wouldnt have upgraded to nxe { i think it wasnt even mandatory}
i will make sure my games are 100% verified though
i would like to see someone who got banned on 1.4
there rips were probably bad.
Post by: WBones on November 15, 2009, 08:27:00 PM
Post by: sini on November 15, 2009, 08:59:00 PM
QUOTE(WBones @ Nov 16 2009, 03:27 AM)
Maybe people with 1.4 have been banned. We are talking specifically about the Non-stealth version of the firmware though. I havent seen anyone with non-stealth being banned yet
Then there must be something else special about 1.4 non-stealth because 1.51 for hitachi is also non-stealth and there have been numerous confirmed bans on those. Might have to try 1.4 again...
This post has been edited by sini: Nov 16 2009, 05:00 AM
Post by: orlandomodder on November 15, 2009, 09:21:00 PM
{ not that the lt ones arent good}
c4eva is the man!!!
nonethe less
but yeah, im trying to see if my freind will mod my 360 tommorrow to 1.4 pre -stealth.
i could always to iextreme lt later.
its a shame this topic was moved.
Maybe more people would join the wagon.
Post by: WBones on November 15, 2009, 09:24:00 PM
QUOTE(sini @ Nov 15 2009, 09:59 PM)
Then there must be something else special about 1.4 non-stealth because 1.51 for hitachi is also non-stealth and there have been numerous confirmed bans on those. Might have to try 1.4 again...
Yeah I'm not sure if 1.51 for Hitachi is completely non-stealth or not but if it is then this theory is blown
Post by: Toddler on November 15, 2009, 09:48:00 PM
QUOTE(WBones @ Nov 15 2009, 10:24 PM)
Yeah I'm not sure if 1.51 for Hitachi is completely non-stealth or not but if it is then this theory is blown
These forums are riddled with logical fallacies. How does that "blow the theory"?
Let's assume the following for the purposes of this thread:
- firmware stealth checks can be detected
- invalid stealth data can be detected
- playing early releases can be detected
That would mean:
- perfectly-stealthed discs on stealth-checking firmware can earn you a ban
- improperly-stealthed discs on non-stealth firmware can earn you a ban
- playing early releases on any firmware can earn you a ban
Since there are multiple ways to get banned, you cannot simply say the "theory is blown" just because Hitachi 1.51 users have been banned. You have no way of knowing what they did to get banned in the first place.
The only thing that would "blow the theory" is someone who played perfectly-stealthed discs on non-stealth firmware getting banned. And even then, someone who believes their discs are perfect can be wrong.
On a side note, I wish I had stayed on BenQ 1.41 non-stealth. If I'd known how all this wave shit was going to play out, I'd have never "upgraded" with each firmware update. Microsoft must be laughing mightily if C4E ended up outsmarting himself.
Post by: chorizo1 on November 15, 2009, 09:53:00 PM
QUOTE(orlandomodder @ Nov 15 2009, 07:34 PM)
moved, to newbie chat who the heck will see it now?
yep, 244 views so far... who's gonna see it.
technical modding is a forum for people in the middle or attempting to hack their xbox, NOT another "I think this is how they are banning" thread.
You have a problem with me moving your thread PM me.
Post by: I Bac0n I on November 15, 2009, 10:01:00 PM
they removed the PFi compliance so they wouldn't have to update it every time there was a new wave, because there is like 20 different firmwares for the hitachi drives
i believe the DMI and SS checks are still there.
The non stealth firmware will play the game regardless of dmi and pfi, just as long as the SS is valid and patched to the correct place.
Post by: MindsEye on November 15, 2009, 10:14:00 PM
Have only played on live 1 time. (screaming kids suck)
Never played anything prerel
I use my xbox mostly to stream tvirsity, therefore its on 24/7
I have played MOST titles on this box, but never any wave releases.
Dunno if this info helps, but it does seem the 1.41 fw's arent getting the banhammer.
Post by: mender on November 16, 2009, 01:00:00 AM
Post by: Syn201 on November 16, 2009, 04:52:00 AM
if it does it will cost you a new xbox or you could bitch like the rest and blame everyone but yourself and threaten to buy a ps3 or the other option would be to buy two consoles and never mod one never put online
as for the screaming kids of live bit i seen before there is a mute button to rid us of these fricking clowns
and its not always kids most of them are meant to be adults yet they sit there hurling racist comments to and throw does my tits in ..
Post by: WBones on November 16, 2009, 08:15:00 AM
QUOTE(spineshank @ Nov 16 2009, 08:04 AM)
My friend is on 1.4 yet and hes not banned.
1.4 Non-Stealth? Or just 1.4
Post by: Goldeye on November 16, 2009, 08:40:00 AM
I asked two questions about the ixtreme firmwares and one about the protocol. There has been only one attempt to answer any of those questions, and it was gave an "I think" answer about 1.51.
Post by: joshualukin on November 16, 2009, 08:47:00 AM
"Scenario: 4 Xboxs. Unused all Liteon 74580C (March 2009).
Box 1: Connect virgin to Live. Let it do all the latest live updates. Flash to iXtreme v1.6. No backup games.
Box 2: Connect virgin to Live. Let it do all the latest live updates. Flash to iXtreme v1.6. Play Fifa 10 backup (abgx verified).
Box 3: Flash to iXtreme v1.6 out of the box. Connect to live. Let it do all the latest live updates. No backup games.
Box 4: Flash to iXtreme v1.6 out of the box. Connect to live. Let it do all the latest live updates. Play Fifa 10 backup (abgx verified).
Results after 1 week.
Box 1: Still on Live.
Box 2: Still on Live.
Box 3: Banned
Box 4: Banned
Interesting ?"
Post by: WBones on November 16, 2009, 08:50:00 AM
QUOTE(Goldeye @ Nov 16 2009, 09:40 AM)
Maybe I should have put in the OP: "No one on this thread cares about whether your (or your friend's) xbox got banned'. MS aren't the only ones to know a thing or two about the dvd drive protocol; am I naive in hoping that someone on the forum devoted to that very topic does?
I asked two questions about the ixtreme firmwares and one about the protocol. There has been only one attempt to answer any of those questions, and it was gave an "I think" answer about 1.51.
Well for #1 in your original post you would need someone intimate with the workings of the firmware to answer that and that pretty much means c4eva but im guessing hes a little busy
For #2 again there is no clear answer. The difference between stealth and non-stealth firmwares is that the non-stealth doesnt prevent you from playing bad rips so in a way your assumption is correct... that with non-stealth you are safe as long as your discs are good, however since nobody knows (or if they know they havent revealed it) what is actually causing these bans we cant say for sure.
I have not seen a single user with 1.4 non-stealth saying they have been banned and about 9 or 10 that are running 1.4 non-stealth and havent been banned.
It would be awesome if c4eva would just let us know if its safe as he says he knows what the cause of the bans is but again hes busy. The only real "safe" thing to do is wait for iXtreme Lite Touch.
Post by: dragon45801 on November 16, 2009, 11:52:00 AM
Post by: sini on November 16, 2009, 02:03:00 PM
Post by: catchthabeat on November 17, 2009, 11:14:00 AM
Post by: XeoNoX on November 17, 2009, 01:16:00 PM
QUOTE(sini @ Nov 17 2009, 10:20 AM)
There is a google poll somewhere on this forum. When I saw it only 1 person with 1.4 non-stealth was banned, and that person said he didn't stealth check games. Everyone else with it was unbanned at that time. But is the non-stealth version available for all drives?
are you guys talking about benq firmware 1.41 or 1.4???
Post by: WBones on November 17, 2009, 01:21:00 PM
QUOTE(sini @ Nov 17 2009, 12:20 PM)
There is a google poll somewhere on this forum. When I saw it only 1 person with 1.4 non-stealth was banned, and that person said he didn't stealth check games. Everyone else with it was unbanned at that time. But is the non-stealth version available for all drives?
Non-stealth 1.4 should be for all drives but Lite-On I think
Post by: catchthabeat on November 17, 2009, 05:29:00 PM
Post by: onlyXMan on November 18, 2009, 05:18:00 AM
QUOTE(joshualukin @ Nov 16 2009, 04:47 PM)
Very interesting. Ironic that the thing that we all thought was keeping us safe was actually the one waving the giant neon colored flag that "there be a trouble a brewing" to MS. I'm going to put my spare box on the line and test it out. Team Xecuter has tested 4 boxes has well and.....
"Scenario: 4 Xboxs. Unused all Liteon 74580C (March 2009).
Box 1: Connect virgin to Live. Let it do all the latest live updates. Flash to iXtreme v1.6. No backup games.
Box 2: Connect virgin to Live. Let it do all the latest live updates. Flash to iXtreme v1.6. Play Fifa 10 backup (abgx verified).
Box 3: Flash to iXtreme v1.6 out of the box. Connect to live. Let it do all the latest live updates. No backup games.
Box 4: Flash to iXtreme v1.6 out of the box. Connect to live. Let it do all the latest live updates. Play Fifa 10 backup (abgx verified).
Results after 1 week.
Box 1: Still on Live.
Box 2: Still on Live.
Box 3: Banned
Box 4: Banned
Interesting ?"
This is the best test I have seen on this forum so far about bans.
It's very important beacuse it proofs that THEY CHECK EACH CONSOLE ONCE. That's why it's very hard to catch what they are checking. ( maybe they will repeat that test in future but for now it doesn't matter)
There will be second conclusion if team explain "No backup games" for BOX3:
1) no backups and played originals
2) no backups and no originals (no dvd played at all)
If we know that it resolves problem when the check is performed (boot console or DVD usage).
Post by: KIla on November 18, 2009, 09:36:00 AM
Post by: HyperUK on November 18, 2009, 10:03:00 AM
QUOTE(KIla @ Nov 18 2009, 04:36 PM)
I used ixtreme 1.41 non-stealth BENQ still unbanned
Can you play any wave games using this firmware without any patching?
Post by: f575gtc on November 18, 2009, 10:08:00 AM
Post by: WBones on November 18, 2009, 10:19:00 AM
QUOTE(f575gtc @ Nov 18 2009, 11:08 AM)
Can a benq be flashed back to 1.41 non stealth from 1.6 using jungleflash? I remember 1.41 was from the days of dos flashing before jungleflash came out.
Yes.
And non-stealth firmware can play any wave game
Post by: f575gtc on November 18, 2009, 11:14:00 AM
Anyways I am gonna flash it back to 1.41 non stealth and report on it. If I get banned will update
Wish me luck I'm doing it for you guys and girls.
Post by: ricflairandy on November 18, 2009, 12:01:00 PM
QUOTE(f575gtc @ Nov 18 2009, 07:14 PM)
Well guys when I get home from work I am gonna take one for the team. I have a 20gb xbox with a benq haven't. Turned it on since I replaced it with my elite like 3 months ago as far as I know its not banned but I do have a 5440 error on xbox.com it is out of warranty though its 3 years old.
Anyways I am gonna flash it back to 1.41 non stealth and report on it. If I get banned will update
Wish me luck I'm doing it for you guys and girls.
make that two of us. I have a rrod xbox that ive repaired, hasnt been connectged to live for a while. Has a samsung m28 in it flashed with 1.61. Im going to flash back to orig. Update via live to latest updates, and then flash back to 1.4 and test.
Will report back with results.
Post by: KIla on November 18, 2009, 12:13:00 PM
Post by: KIla on November 18, 2009, 12:39:00 PM
Post by: f575gtc on November 18, 2009, 01:46:00 PM
Post by: WBones on November 18, 2009, 02:06:00 PM
QUOTE(KIla @ Nov 18 2009, 01:39 PM)
So i got ban, i can't install game on hdd but my Savegames and profile is fine
Savegames and profile are fine as long as you dont play them on your banned console. Once you do they will show as corrupt on a non-banned console.
Yes you want the 12x Non-Stealth. If MS is doing things with timings then running slower than stock drive speed would be a dead giveaway
Post by: f575gtc on November 18, 2009, 02:31:00 PM
it seems microsoft does keep their logs of w/e consoles went online and when they found out how to detect firmwares they just looked for descrepancies in the log
the people who are on 1.41 non stealth prob never went to a newer firmware but that.
heard from me guys! benq back to 1.41 non stealth DOES NOT WORK
and I am confident even with Ceva's new firmware even if u upgrade to it, if you are set to be banned its not gonna care anymore what firmware u have.
Post by: WBones on November 18, 2009, 02:34:00 PM
QUOTE(f575gtc @ Nov 18 2009, 03:31 PM)
well ran the test reverted back to a non stealth 1.41, no disc in tray still got banned
it seems microsoft does keep their logs of w/e consoles went online and when they found out how to detect firmwares they just looked for descrepancies in the log
the people who are on 1.41 non stealth prob never went to a newer firmware but that.
heard from me guys! benq back to 1.41 non stealth DOES NOT WORK
and I am confident even with Ceva's new firmware even if u upgrade to it, if you are set to be banned its not gonna care anymore what firmware u have.
Yep.
Unfortunately the only people who would make good test candidates for this particular test are those who went from stock straight to a non-stealth firmware. There is a guy in a different set of forums who did just that. No word back from him yet (no news is good news?)
Post by: ricflairandy on November 18, 2009, 02:39:00 PM
QUOTE(WBones @ Nov 18 2009, 10:34 PM)
Yep.
Unfortunately the only people who would make good test candidates for this particular test are those who went from stock straight to a non-stealth firmware. There is a guy in a different set of forums who did just that. No word back from him yet (no news is good news?)
I went from 1.61 to original, connected to live, updated, played about with twitter and facebook.
didnt seem banne dbut i dont wanna test it now back to 1.41
Post by: f575gtc on November 18, 2009, 02:40:00 PM
Post by: xlinkx on November 18, 2009, 05:17:00 PM
QUOTE(f575gtc @ Nov 18 2009, 11:31 PM)
well ran the test reverted back to a non stealth 1.41, no disc in tray still got banned
it seems microsoft does keep their logs of w/e consoles went online and when they found out how to detect firmwares they just looked for descrepancies in the log
the people who are on 1.41 non stealth prob never went to a newer firmware but that.
heard from me guys! benq back to 1.41 non stealth DOES NOT WORK
and I am confident even with Ceva's new firmware even if u upgrade to it, if you are set to be banned its not gonna care anymore what firmware u have.
I had a modded xbox that haven't connect to live for 4 or 5 months. It has the liteon drive with ix 1.5. Last night I spoofed to a benq and downgraded to 1.4.1 non stealth. Played MW2 all night and still haven't ban yet.
Post by: HyperUK on November 18, 2009, 09:06:00 PM
I have flashed it to 1.41 unstealthed 12x and am now using it as my main machine connected to live.
I dont know if it being modded before hand with a different firmware will make any difference as it was never connected to live during this time.
Will let you lot know how I get on if anyone is interested
Post by: Nemesis999 on February 02, 2020, 10:13:00 PM
Post by: willkr07 on February 03, 2020, 01:38:00 PM
Anyways, I have a sammy in an elite I just bought that hasnt been connected to live and im willing to test this to. I have yet to fine a non-stealth ixtreme 1.4 anywhere. Does it exist? I tried running mw2 on the 1.4 I found but it wouldnt run.
Would xtreme 5.3 be the firmware to try?
Post by: WBones on February 03, 2020, 02:19:00 PM
Not sure if using the older Xtreme would be a good idea... there were some angle/jitter corrections in the newer ones I think?
Post by: willkr07 on February 03, 2020, 02:21:00 PM
Post by: Takashi on February 03, 2020, 09:09:00 PM
Post by: willkr07 on February 03, 2020, 09:29:00 PM
Post by: evolution2147 on February 03, 2020, 09:52:00 PM
This post has been edited by evolution2147: Today, 05:53 AM
Post by: loganbdh on November 20, 2009, 02:57:00 AM
Post by: evolution2147 on November 20, 2009, 08:44:00 AM
QUOTE(Goldeye @ Nov 16 2009, 01:55 AM)
I'm hoping for some knowledgeable opinions about this.
It seems to me there are two decent theories for people using verified discs getting banned:
1. Firmware timings -- stealth-checking routines delay security responses from ix fw, enough for ms to detect.
2. Modding process detection -- Flag set when 360 is booted without the DVD drive connected
I've seen the first mentioned frequently in threads, and the second much less so although my own experiences seem to indicate it's a possible cause.
So I have two questions maybe someone can answer:
1. Do the ix firmwares perform any checks on original discs (that could reveal the fw's latency)
If so, then it'd seem to go against the ban-for-timing theory. If not, it's seem to support it. (Based on unbanned 1.6 ix that only plays originals)
2. Does nonstealth fw like 1.4 have any drawbacks, other than the risk of unverified discs, and lack of compatibility for new drives.
In other words, should nonstealth 1.4 be as safe as the discs are?
just curious are you using 1.4 or 1.41? im about to flash this and am wondering if there was a difference, Thanks.
Post by: Nemesis999 on November 20, 2009, 10:42:00 AM
QUOTE(evolution2147 @ Nov 20 2009, 10:44 AM)
just curious are you using 1.4 or 1.41? im about to flash this and am wondering if there was a difference, Thanks.
There is only the one for Benq. It is under the 1.41 non stealth folder on xbins. Keep us updated. I am considering doing this as well but i can't afford another console right now
Post by: that360guy on November 20, 2009, 02:08:00 PM
Post by: Nemesis999 on November 20, 2009, 02:13:00 PM
Post by: WBones on November 20, 2009, 02:33:00 PM
However, if you cant afford to get banned please dont do this. It is not confirmed but is a definite noticeable trend. I just wish that if it was safe c4eva would let us know that the new firmware is only needed for the drives that dont already have a non-stealth firmware
Post by: Secret-Service on November 21, 2009, 06:18:00 AM
I will write here if there come some change. Sorry for my english.
I use BenQ 1.41 non stealth - Spofede as a Liteon 8xxx
Post by: ixirockx on November 21, 2009, 08:21:00 AM
As far as I know that is the latest sammy firmware that's non stealth, correct?
Post by: WBones on November 21, 2009, 08:30:00 AM
QUOTE(ixirockx @ Nov 21 2009, 09:21 AM)
Would a samsung drive with xtreme 5.3 likely get banned?
As far as I know that is the latest sammy firmware that's non stealth, correct?
Nobody can tell you for sure. You may want to start your own thread on the subject but I suspect you'll have trouble finding anyone who is still running that version so you may not get any conclusive data. If you can find some willing participants with stock unmodified samsungs they could try updating their console (while stock) then putting on Xtreme 5.3 to test it.
So far the 1.4 Non-stealth for the BenQs is looking pretty good. I have a friend who is coming by a little later who doesnt care about Live connectivity so he might be another tester
Post by: ixirockx on November 21, 2009, 09:07:00 AM
I'm thinking an upgrade to the lastest dash and then flashing would be the best idea
Post by: WBones on November 21, 2009, 09:30:00 AM
QUOTE(ixirockx @ Nov 21 2009, 10:07 AM)
I actually just bought a broken xbox that I'm going to fix and test with 5.3
I'm thinking an upgrade to the lastest dash and then flashing would be the best idea
This does seem to be the safest way
Post by: Nemesis999 on November 21, 2009, 10:21:00 AM
Post by: evolution2147 on November 21, 2009, 02:07:00 PM
QUOTE(ixirockx @ Nov 21 2009, 04:21 PM)
Would a samsung drive with xtreme 5.3 likely get banned?
As far as I know that is the latest sammy firmware that's non stealth, correct?
Wasnt this this firmware that everyone got banned for like 2 years ago? and thats why they came out with the ixtreme firmwares tho?
I just thought of this.
Post by: f575gtc on November 21, 2009, 06:44:00 PM
Second Benq drive had 1.51 has NOT been on at all, let alone on live since august ( person went off to college).
Reverted to 1.41 non stealth, turn it on
ran xbox live test, 360 asked for update accept update, got a failed update warning, went to run test again
BANNED!
Post by: Nemesis999 on November 21, 2009, 07:38:00 PM
QUOTE(f575gtc @ Nov 21 2009, 08:44 PM)
Update 2!!!!:
Second Benq drive had 1.51 has NOT been on at all, let alone on live since august ( person went off to college).
Reverted to 1.41 non stealth, turn it on
ran xbox live test, 360 asked for update accept update, got a failed update warning, went to run test again
BANNED!
Very interesting. Could be that the console was flagged before august. Or that there is something in one of the newer updates. It is always safer to update the console before flashing though.
Post by: evolution2147 on November 21, 2009, 08:58:00 PM
Post by: Goldeye on November 21, 2009, 09:04:00 PM
Post by: DemisesAngel on November 22, 2009, 12:47:00 AM
Firmware >>Flashed back to stock>>Updated XBox 360 (2 Most Recent Updates)>>Flashed back to 1.41 Non-Stealth and tested?
This being for BenQ drives
Post by: ZuuZuu on November 22, 2009, 05:04:00 AM
Post by: ZuuZuu on November 22, 2009, 07:59:00 AM
Post by: evolution2147 on November 22, 2009, 09:31:00 AM
QUOTE(DemisesAngel @ Nov 22 2009, 08:47 AM)
Has this been tried on here yet?
Firmware >>Flashed back to stock>>Updated XBox 360 (2 Most Recent Updates)>>Flashed back to 1.41 Non-Stealth and tested?
This being for BenQ drives
This is what i did on my unbanned console before it broke. i had 1.61 on it 2 weeks ago and was playing MW2 pre-release on it (also updated thru live). Once i heard everyone was getting banned i just stopped playing it. When i come home from school 2 weeks later I flashed it to stock and played original games on live for a few hours, flashed it with 1.41 and everything was fine. But just when i thought i was home free, bam E74.
Post by: Bramski on November 22, 2009, 10:21:00 AM
Post by: Nemesis999 on November 22, 2009, 10:43:00 AM
QUOTE(Bramski @ Nov 22 2009, 12:21 PM)
Just a quick question regarding non stealthed firmwares. Will the 1.4 still run games that have been patched to run on the 1.6 firmwares?
Yes. The only thing that was stopping the new wave games from loading was the stealth checks. Therefore any firmware that doesn't do the checks will boot any game
Post by: WBones on November 22, 2009, 11:26:00 AM
QUOTE(Bramski @ Nov 22 2009, 11:21 AM)
Just a quick question regarding non stealthed firmwares. Will the 1.4 still run games that have been patched to run on the 1.6 firmwares?
When you say patched I assume you mean Wave 4 games that are patched to Wave 3. yes they will boot but this is likely not a good idea. If there is one thing MS can easily check for its to see if a Wave 4 game has the proper data in the Wave partition or not
Post by: sini on November 22, 2009, 01:20:00 PM
QUOTE(ixirockx @ Nov 21 2009, 04:07 PM)
I actually just bought a broken xbox that I'm going to fix and test with 5.3
I'm thinking an upgrade to the lastest dash and then flashing would be the best idea
Have you done this yet? I'm willing to give it a go too... although I cannot seem to flash to flash to stock so I will be going straight to 5.3 and then performing the update. Risky I know but there are people who performed update with 1.4 and were not banned so I'm hoping 5.3 is similar due to it being stealth free.
I was thinking of going even earlier than 5.3 but <5 means no jitter fix.
Post by: TheDemonIII on November 22, 2009, 01:36:00 PM
QUOTE(sini @ Nov 22 2009, 03:20 PM)
Have you done this yet? I'm willing to give it a go too... although I cannot seem to flash to flash to stock so I will be going straight to 5.3 and then performing the update. Risky I know but there are people who performed update with 1.4 and were not banned so I'm hoping 5.3 is similar due to it being stealth free.
I was thinking of going even earlier than 5.3 but <5 means no jitter fix.
i dont understand how this makes any sense. there were ban waves before the current one... so this isnt the only time that MS was able to detect modified consoles. people got banned on 5.3, so who is to say that they wouldnt get banned again?
Post by: f575gtc on November 22, 2009, 01:38:00 PM
Ceva said it was the stealth that was doing people in
I have verified TWO consoles with non stealth get banned when trying to sign on
people going back to original then going online have been ok.
so if stealth was the reason the 1.41 shouldnt have been banned now I understand I could have been flagged earlier, but the lastest console I experimented on got banned, was NEVER on live...EVER went from a 1.51 to a 1.41 non stealth and then went online
I think what happen is MS keeps a log of all xboxs that enter live, until the recent ban wave (or when they found out how to) MS had no way of detecting what variables ment modded.
once they found out all they had to do was run the logs of the xboxes that connected to live through a search for those variables that constitute a ban.
the program tries to find them and locks that console from live, now why i think some people that are modded have not been banned and why some that are fully legit have is because of the method and varibles used to detect bans that its not perfect.
thats why i believe it doesnt matter when you last turned on your xbox, if it connected to live ever with a modded firmware MS has its log and all they needed to do was run all the logs through the system if your console met the variables that constitute a ban, your console is done
doesnt matter when u turn it on or if u go to any other firmware (unless LT tricks MS into scanning again which I highly doubt it does)
why I think some people are getting away with going to non stealth is because 1) they never went on live 2) they went on live with a legit stock firmware 3) were lucky enough to not get flagged, and the reason some people are getting away with going to stock and not getting banned is because MS could have not had enough logs of your console to confirm a ban and were waiting for more logs or the next search, and now that you have stock its searching for variables that arent there because your console is not legit..
thats just my 2 cents, take them or leave them.
Post by: Goldeye on November 22, 2009, 01:54:00 PM
Post by: f575gtc on November 22, 2009, 02:21:00 PM
but the 2nd xbox was never updated through live until we tried it yesterday it was always updated through disc updates
Post by: Nemesis999 on November 22, 2009, 02:36:00 PM
QUOTE(f575gtc @ Nov 22 2009, 03:38 PM)
, but the lastest console I experimented on got banned, was NEVER on live...EVER went from a 1.51 to a 1.41 non stealth and then went online
It doesn't matter if you've never been online. the xbox stores the data and sends it to m$ whenever you do go online. So more likely than not it stored the data from 1.51 and reported once you went online. Either that or you played a game early and they decided to ban you for that.
Post by: ZuuZuu on November 22, 2009, 03:02:00 PM
Post by: Goldeye on November 22, 2009, 04:48:00 PM
That'd be the best confirmation that 1.41 nonstealth is secure.
Post by: sini on November 22, 2009, 05:00:00 PM
QUOTE(TheDemonIII @ Nov 22 2009, 08:36 PM)
i dont understand how this makes any sense. there were ban waves before the current one... so this isnt the only time that MS was able to detect modified consoles. people got banned on 5.3, so who is to say that they wouldnt get banned again?
Because they were banned for different reasons in the 5.3 days. Nobody stealth checked games back then, there was no abgx, or mulleter.
The reason for 5.3 is that it is non-stealth. 1.41 is a better choice but not available for samsung.
QUOTE(Goldeye @ Nov 22 2009, 11:48 PM)
I'd love if someone took a stock benq system (no spoofing), flashed in 1.41 nonstealth and updated.
That'd be the best confirmation that 1.41 nonstealth is secure.
I think this has been done. The people who are not banned and using 1.41 applied the latest update with 1.41. Although they may have applied a previous update on stock.... can someone with 1.41 confirm if they flashed before going on live or after?
Oh and this is a longshot but.... is there anyone still running 5.3? lol
Post by: willkr07 on November 22, 2009, 05:22:00 PM
Post by: sini on November 22, 2009, 05:26:00 PM
QUOTE(willkr07 @ Nov 23 2009, 12:22 AM)
I think im gonna flash mine to 5.3a and update and see if I can play on live. I havent played on live since MW2 has come out and its killin me! This xbox I just bought hasnt been connected to live since I got it. What do yall think?
I think you're a brave man and be prepared to get banned. Don't do it unless you are ok with that. 5.3A is the best choice because B and C both mess with disk speed. Also update to new dash before you flash the new firmware.
Goodluck!
Post by: willkr07 on November 22, 2009, 05:30:00 PM
Actually I do have another lite-on in my banned xbox that I could maybe flash to stock and update and flash it, would that be a better idea?
Post by: DemisesAngel on November 22, 2009, 05:51:00 PM
Post by: willkr07 on November 22, 2009, 05:56:00 PM
Post by: ixirockx on November 22, 2009, 06:00:00 PM
QUOTE(willkr07 @ Nov 23 2009, 01:56 AM)
So updating with the liteon stock f/w spoofed would be basically the same if I updated with a non-stealth f/w with the sammy?
I don't think so. As long as you have the stock spoofed and not a modified firmware there should be no problem. I believe all the spoof does is change the name of the drive as the system sees it, it does not mess with the function of the drive.
Post by: willkr07 on November 22, 2009, 07:46:00 PM
Post by: sini on November 22, 2009, 07:55:00 PM
QUOTE(willkr07 @ Nov 23 2009, 02:46 AM)
Flashed to 5.3 updated and now im playing mw2 on live, for now. No ban.
No insta-ban is a good thing considering you've logged on during a ban phase. I've downloaded 5.3A and have my box ready to update (I've soldered the wire to nand write protect - I don't want to lose hard drive functionality when I get banned) but its almost 3am so I'll leave it until tomorrow. Hopefully a few of us should be enough to prove the point on the old xtreme firmware... either way.
Post by: evolution2147 on November 23, 2009, 12:28:00 AM
QUOTE(Goldeye @ Nov 23 2009, 12:48 AM)
I'd love if someone took a stock benq system (no spoofing), flashed in 1.41 nonstealth and updated.
That'd be the best confirmation that 1.41 nonstealth is secure.
Yes this would be the best but that is kinda hard to come by. But i did buy a brand new console to test this, however it obviously came with a liteon so i had to spoof. Still going strong! Im just wondering if saving games to the hdd makes a difference? For some reason i am too afraid to because atm i have not.
Post by: logicwatch on November 23, 2009, 01:32:00 AM
QUOTE(evolution2147 @ Nov 23 2009, 07:28 AM)
Yes this would be the best but that is kinda hard to come by. But i did buy a brand new console to test this, however it obviously came with a liteon so i had to spoof. Still going strong! Im just wondering if saving games to the hdd makes a difference? For some reason i am too afraid to because atm i have not.
I wouldnt load any games to the hard drive just yet it does make you wonder if their hard drive ban / lock out may have something to do with the bans ?
so for now I would keep testing just as you are !
Post by: Bramski on November 23, 2009, 10:21:00 AM
QUOTE(Nemesis999 @ Nov 22 2009, 06:43 PM)
Yes. The only thing that was stopping the new wave games from loading was the stealth checks. Therefore any firmware that doesn't do the checks will boot any game
Thanks for the replies, I was only asking as a few friends keep asking me to update their kids 360's to run new wave titles. They don't go on live so I'll be better off using a non stealth FW so they'll run anything (and they'll stop pestering me
)I'm also buying a new machine for myself as my current one keeps E74'ing so I'll use the 1.4 too and report back when/if I get banned.
Post by: sini on November 23, 2009, 05:07:00 PM
QUOTE
If you put an Xbox 360 disc in a normal DVD video player you will see a screen that says, "To play this disc, put it in an Xbox 360 console." This happens because there's a DVD video partition on the disc which is split over both layers on original discs. On normal backups the video partition is all on layer 0, and hacked firmwares are supposed to redirect reads to the layer 1 video back to layer 0. However, it was discovered that some hacked firmware versions prior to the release of iXtreme were not doing this properly, and if the Xbox 360 host tried to read the entire video partition, the second part of it would be blank because the firmware started reading from layer 1 instead of continuing to read from layer 0 like it was supposed to. One solution to this problem was called SplitVid, and it works by appending the layer 1 video to the end of an iso (padded up to the proper position based on PFI) so that when these buggy firmwares start reading from layer 1 they will actually read the layer 1 video instead of blank data. The better solution is to simply upgrade your firmware to the latest iXtreme version because these old firmwares have even more security holes, even if you have a perfectly stealthed disc. iXtreme versions prior to v1.4 also have a bug in disc jitter (see 'Is there such a thing as a "bad kreon rip"?' for more on this). If you still want to add SplitVid (or even if you want to remove it) you can select your preference in the Misc tab. The default behavior is to not check for it and just leave it the way it is, because if you're using iXtreme firmware it doesn't matter if a backup has SplitVid or not; data past the game partition will not be readable by the Xbox 360 host.
edit: Actually abgx has a tab for splitvid so if it passes that then why should 5.3 be dangerous? Did the person who flashed yesterday get banned yet? I've logged on once so far today... dare I have another game now...
Post by: xlinkx on November 23, 2009, 05:28:00 PM
QUOTE(xlinkx @ Nov 19 2009, 02:17 AM)
I had a modded xbox that haven't connect to live for 4 or 5 months. It has the liteon drive with ix 1.5. Last night I spoofed to a benq and downgraded to 1.4.1 non stealth. Played MW2 all night and still haven't ban yet.
It's been over a week and still no ban yet. I'll keep you guys updated again next week =).
Post by: ixirockx on November 23, 2009, 06:59:00 PM
QUOTE(sini @ Nov 24 2009, 01:07 AM)
Looks like it might not be worth chancing it with 5.3 - although I believe 5.3 does include the jitter fix.
edit: Actually abgx has a tab for splitvid so if it passes that then why should 5.3 be dangerous? Did the person who flashed yesterday get banned yet? I've logged on once so far today... dare I have another game now...
Then it looks like we should be cool if it's verified by abgx
And what exactly is the disc jitter fix?
Post by: sini on November 23, 2009, 07:55:00 PM
QUOTE(ixirockx @ Nov 24 2009, 01:59 AM)
Then it looks like we should be cool if it's verified by abgx
And what exactly is the disc jitter fix?
QUOTE
Disc-Jitter is slight randomization added to the result of Challenge types 5 and 7 so as to emulate a result from an actual physical drive.
This is to avoid any possible replay detection.
This is to avoid any possible replay detection.
Any update willkr07?
Post by: willkr07 on November 23, 2009, 11:38:00 PM
Post by: becomexbox on November 23, 2009, 11:46:00 PM
Post by: becomexbox on November 24, 2009, 12:38:00 AM
Post by: becomexbox on November 24, 2009, 02:00:00 PM
Post by: willkr07 on November 24, 2009, 02:32:00 PM
Post by: DemisesAngel on November 24, 2009, 02:41:00 PM
QUOTE(sini @ Nov 24 2009, 04:20 PM)
12X is safest. They will certainly see if your dvd-rom never goes above 5X. I maybe wrong but I think this was one of the reasons for the bans all those years ago.
I am using 12X but am going with 5.3 for now. Hopefully my wingman (willkr07) will let me know if/when he gets banned so I can disconnect lol. I am about to cain mw2 for the next few hours (after I run another abgx check using splitvid option this time).
12x is the normal speed of the XBox 360 DVD Drive (and recommended for those flashing and going online). It was said anything less was less safe.
QUOTE(willkr07 @ Nov 24 2009, 04:32 PM)
Ya I read something about the splitvid detection what is this? I haven't checked for this in any of my backups as far as I know.
From '07
Wasn't exactly in depth, but quick search gave me that. Someone else wanna explain it or post up a link?
Post by: becomexbox on November 24, 2009, 04:17:00 PM
Post by: ixirockx on November 25, 2009, 09:12:00 PM
I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Post by: moddrboy on November 27, 2009, 02:00:00 PM
QUOTE(becomexbox @ Nov 24 2009, 08:46 AM)
I just modded a new Benq box also tonight, went online no problems so far. Would be nice to know which speed you guys flashed to. I used 5x 1.41 non stealth. I'll keep ya posted.
Hi the stock speed is X12
I did post before on this site but it was closed! I took a brand new xbox and flashed it with 1.4 non-stealth 12x.straight out of the box. no updates or other games played. litteraly straight out of the box. I have been on live everyday for 3 weeks and still not banned. My friend did the same but on a console that had 1.61 but it had never been online before. He is NOT banned. I would only recommend flashing benq as it seems non-stealth f/w on other drives, has been banned. You can pick up a benq for about £25-30. My friend asked me if I would update to the new Lite-touch f/w? I said I wasn't going to, because from what I have read, this 1.4 non-stealth seems to be the only f/w to survive all ban waves. So why fix something that isn't broken lol. I hope this helps
Just to add, I dont think C4eva will back this up, because it is not ixtreme!!! The guys at ABGX said that "C4eva did not write the non-stealth f/w"
Post by: sini on November 27, 2009, 03:20:00 PM
QUOTE(moddrboy @ Nov 27 2009, 09:00 PM)
Hi the stock speed is X12
I did post before on this site but it was closed! I took a brand new xbox and flashed it with 1.4 non-stealth 12x.straight out of the box. no updates or other games played. litteraly straight out of the box. I have been on live everyday for 3 weeks and still not banned. My friend did the same but on a console that had 1.61 but it had never been online before. He is NOT banned. I would only recommend flashing benq as it seems non-stealth f/w on other drives, has been banned. You can pick up a benq for about £25-30. My friend asked me if I would update to the new Lite-touch f/w? I said I wasn't going to, because from what I have read, this 1.4 non-stealth seems to be the only f/w to survive all ban waves. So why fix something that isn't broken lol. I hope this helps
Just to add, I dont think C4eva will back this up, because it is not ixtreme!!! The guys at ABGX said that "C4eva did not write the non-stealth f/w"
You are forgetting all the people with 5.3.
Post by: vinnycuz on November 27, 2009, 03:24:00 PM
For Toshiba/Samsung = Xtreme 5.3 (obviously non-stealth)
For Hitachi = iXtreme 1.51 (said to be non-stealth)
For Benq =iXtreme 1.41 Rev 2 (non-stealth)
Correct me if I am wrong here but I am on a Sammy, awaying my new VIA Card since I friend mine this morning and will be going back to 5.3.
sini, any update?
Post by: sini on November 27, 2009, 04:19:00 PM
QUOTE(vinnycuz @ Nov 27 2009, 10:24 PM)
Correct me if I am wrong here but I am on a Sammy, awaying my new VIA Card since I friend mine this morning and will be going back to 5.3.
sini, any update?
Dude I've been hammering MW2, and so far nothing. I know of a person who got banned in the last few days (using 1.61) so they are definitely still banning. willkr07 is also using 5.3... he has been on it longer than me and afaik he is ok too.
When you get your VIA card go back to stock, then get the update, then flash to 5.3. You can go straight to 5.3 but I think the stock route is always safer.
Post by: moddrboy on November 27, 2009, 05:39:00 PM
QUOTE(sini @ Nov 28 2009, 12:20 AM)
You are forgetting all the people with 5.3.
Well i have read about people getting banned on 5.3 for sammy. So havent tried it myself and wont lol. i believe that was the whole reason for ixtreme, was because the sammy's were hit in the first ban wave. It looked to me, that the only f/w that has survived these waves is the 1.4 non stealth 12x for benq. I did do non stop research into this lol. Im not saying that i am 100% right, im just going on the evidence i see.
Also i believe the hitachi 1.51 is not non-stealth it just doesnt do the same checks as the other f/w's. There have been loads and loads banned with this f/w. Like i said you can buy a benq drive for less than the price of a game
Post by: evolution2147 on November 27, 2009, 05:40:00 PM
QUOTE(moddrboy @ Nov 27 2009, 10:00 PM)
Just to add, I dont think C4eva will back this up, because it is not ixtreme!!! The guys at ABGX said that "C4eva did not write the non-stealth f/w"
1.41 is ixtreme its just without all the stealth checks. he did write it.
QUOTE(vinnycuz @ Nov 27 2009, 11:24 PM)
The safest firmwares I've heard thus far survinging all the bans are:
For Toshiba/Samsung = Xtreme 5.3 (obviously non-stealth)
For Hitachi = iXtreme 1.51 (said to be non-stealth)
For Benq =iXtreme 1.41 Rev 2 (non-stealth)
sini, any update?
the hitachi is stealth and is not safe as of right now. it just neglects the video partition and pfi. but all other stealth has to pass to boot the game.
Post by: moddrboy on November 27, 2009, 06:00:00 PM
QUOTE(sini @ Nov 28 2009, 01:19 AM)
Post by: sini on November 27, 2009, 07:30:00 PM
We don't really have stats for properly tested backups on very old firmwares. This is what the few of us using 5.3 are trying to ascertain. You might be right and we may all get banned tomorrow but then at least we know for sure.
What exactly do you think is different between 1.41 and 5.3? The only thing I can see is the jitter problem where it sometimes uses 360 on 5.3. This is incorrect but abgx can correct all bad angles before you burn. The only person who knows the difference in code/timings is c4e.
Post by: ixirockx on November 28, 2009, 06:40:00 AM
I know I never personally verified my backups back when that firmware was out.
And I've been testing with 1.41 for a few days. Been playing MW2 and all is good.
I'll probably continue to test for a few more days and then I'm going to swap out my benq for my samsung and flash 5.3
Hopefully I won't get banned!
Post by: willkr07 on November 28, 2009, 10:49:00 AM
Post by: SDOD616 on November 28, 2009, 11:38:00 AM
. My question is do you have to reburn all your 1.61 rips? I have a bunch of rips that i used with 1.61 and abgx. Would i have to repatch them to work with 1.4?
Post by: vinnycuz on November 28, 2009, 11:04:00 PM
QUOTE(sini @ Nov 27 2009, 06:19 PM)
Dude I've been hammering MW2, and so far nothing. I know of a person who got banned in the last few days (using 1.61) so they are definitely still banning. willkr07 is also using 5.3... he has been on it longer than me and afaik he is ok too.
When you get your VIA card go back to stock, then get the update, then flash to 5.3. You can go straight to 5.3 but I think the stock route is always safer.
Makes sense to me. I have my new VIA card on its way, should have it sometime this week. I will let you know whats up.
Post by: ixirockx on November 29, 2009, 04:48:00 PM
When I'm using abgx I added the splitvid fix but do I also check "Adjust SS v1 Angle 359 for iXtreme <1.4"
What do you guys think? Thanks
Post by: xlinkx on November 29, 2009, 10:52:00 PM
QUOTE(xlinkx @ Nov 19 2009, 02:17 AM)
I had a modded xbox that haven't connect to live for 4 or 5 months. It has the liteon drive with ix 1.5. Last night I spoofed to a benq and downgraded to 1.4.1 non stealth. Played MW2 all night and still haven't ban yet.
It's been more than two weeks. Still no ban =).
Post by: loganbdh on November 30, 2009, 05:03:00 AM
QUOTE(loganbdh @ Nov 20 2009, 03:57 AM)
guys im gonna take one for the team... im flashing and spoofing a stock sammy(dead) into a benq drive w/ 1.41 ill play every day and also run a network test w/o hdd every time before i sign in .... is there anything else i should put into consideration
Ha ! Still no ban Im doing great playing MW2
Post by: lenselijertje on November 30, 2009, 09:09:00 AM
Post by: Guu-sama on November 30, 2009, 09:22:00 AM
QUOTE(lenselijertje @ Nov 30 2009, 11:09 AM)
I have a liteon drive and i switched it for a samsung with Xtreme 5.3A, is it safe to go on xbox live?
Use at your own risk. You could avoid this Ban only to be caught in the next end-of-year Ban/Sales Push.
Post by: iwanttheagrocrag on November 30, 2009, 01:15:00 PM
Post by: Secret-Service on December 01, 2009, 01:48:00 AM
Post by: me2611 on December 01, 2009, 05:35:00 AM
QUOTE(Secret-Service @ Dec 1 2009, 10:48 AM)
I has talk with one there know something about Nonstealth 1.4 and all other firmware he says that all firmware "Extreme,iXtreme " can be detectet by MS. the firmware has some security calculations there take to long for the "Extreme,iXtreme " But it will be fix in the new one "LT". you can believe it or not. But it a trusted source.
Trusted source?
Post by: Secret-Service on December 01, 2009, 05:47:00 AM
QUOTE(me2611 @ Dec 1 2009, 01:35 PM)
Trusted source?
Yes one person with a lot of respect on this page and other sites white the xbox 360 mods?
Post by: me2611 on December 01, 2009, 06:18:00 AM
QUOTE(Secret-Service @ Dec 1 2009, 02:47 PM)
Yes one person with a lot of respect on this page and other sites white the xbox 360 mods?
have you a link to this source.
Thanks
Post by: Secret-Service on December 01, 2009, 06:24:00 AM
QUOTE(me2611 @ Dec 1 2009, 02:18 PM)
have you a link to this source.
Thanks
A link ? No i have him on my Messenger?
Post by: me2611 on December 01, 2009, 06:41:00 AM
Post by: me2611 on December 01, 2009, 10:43:00 AM
Fingers crossed.
Post by: Nemesis999 on December 01, 2009, 10:52:00 AM
Post by: not2able on December 01, 2009, 11:23:00 PM
Will take the updates first though. Seems like people with this are not getting banned....I'll let everyone know how i get on too.
Post by: dennyy on December 02, 2009, 07:24:00 AM
Post by: dennyy on December 02, 2009, 08:27:00 AM
QUOTE(Guu-sama @ Dec 2 2009, 09:10 AM)
What you need to do is open the Original firmware in the Source section of JF, then open the X53A.bin in the Target and click the Spoof to Target button. This will copy over the key and other information, then you can flash to the drive.
I have a stock Xbox that has a samsung drive on it and i would like to get Xtreme 5.3a on it, I've never flashed a samsung before. So to write the firmware, i make sure the drive is unlocked (Vendor Mode) and click write.
Post by: dennyy on December 02, 2009, 11:25:00 AM
Back on topic.
I haven't had the chance to go online yet but I'll let you guys know by tomorrow. Hopefully no instant-ban for me. But by the looks of it, it doesn't look like we'll be seeing a new firmware anytime soon and this seems like the safest way to go. I have a friend who went from stock to 1.61 and got banned the next day.
Post by: ixirockx on December 03, 2009, 01:46:00 PM
QUOTE(Slateboard @ Dec 3 2009, 06:41 PM)
So, how long has this been going on?
Many of us have been playing online safely for a few weeks with 1.41 Rev 2 for BenQ. It seems to be the safest for now
It's currently unclear if 5.3a is safe for Samsung drives
I'm not sure about Hitachi drives but I'm pretty sure they're SOL
Post by: willkr07 on December 03, 2009, 02:09:00 PM
QUOTE(ixirockx @ Dec 3 2009, 02:46 PM)
It's currently unclear if 5.3a is safe for Samsung drives
I have been one of the first testers for 5.3a on my Sammy and I have been playing for weeks now no ban on MW2. Also im not running a splitvid copy either.
This is my official update as of now: Still No BAN on 5.3a
Post by: maxmoore on December 03, 2009, 02:25:00 PM
Thanks!
Post by: ka-b00m on December 03, 2009, 03:57:00 PM
Post by: me2611 on December 03, 2009, 05:42:00 PM
QUOTE(maxmoore @ Dec 3 2009, 11:25 PM)
Hello guys, sorry if my questions was answered a couple of post ago but I haven't found it... I have LiteOn and I want to test this theory by myself. Do I have to spoof my drive with 1.41 Rev 2 for BenQ ? Has X1.4 any ways to check waves?
Thanks!
Hey,
You cant spoof the LiteOn with BenQ FW. But you can spoof a Benq (to make it appear as a LiteOn) with 1.41 Rev2 and use it in your LiteOn console. I have done this and been fine for 5 days so far.
You need a BenQ drive then open Jungle flasher on the Firmware tool 32 tab load the dummy.bin from your liteOn drive as the Source. Then load the Target with 1.41 Rev2 Non Stealth Fw *X12* then hit spoof source to target. If done correctly it will show under target as Spoofed as a PLDS DG-16D2S 7485 (or something similar if you have a newer model LiteOn) Then hit save to file and you have your CFW ready and need to proceed to flash your drive.
You can get BenQ drives off eBay for 20-25 pounds (UK)
Also make sure you choose 12X as the drive speed (2x 5x 8x 12x are the speeds to choose from). Am pretty sure you will get pulled up by using anything lower than 12X to run games with on XBL.
Good Luck Man
Post by: me2611 on December 03, 2009, 06:07:00 PM
QUOTE(Slateboard @ Dec 4 2009, 02:54 AM)
So if I have my drive modded with this firmware, what other precautions do I have to take?
And are there any wave restrictions?
There are no wave restrictions on 1.41 Non stealth it will play any wave and any backup you put into your drive, even if it is stealthed patched or not properly. So make 100% sure your backups are fully verified and patched correclty and you should be sound. Also if your making any new rips i would have Splitvid enabled in ABGX so your backups will be ready for when/if you update to LT.
Post by: Slateboard on December 03, 2009, 06:20:00 PM
Post by: kdallas on December 03, 2009, 06:34:00 PM
QUOTE(Slateboard @ Dec 4 2009, 10:20 AM)
And BenQ Drives are the only ones that have Non-Stealth firmware?
No... All drives (except LiteOn) have available (older) non-stealth firmwares.
Anything pre-iXtreme is non-stealth. i.e. Xtreme 5.3 for the Sammy. People are using a non-stealth iXtreme 1.41 firmware for the BenQ as that was the most recent one available that is available as non-stealth.
If you have a LiteOn, it seems evident the best option at the moment is to get hold of a BenQ drive and spoof it as your LiteOn with 1.41 rev2 non-stealth. This makes a big assumption that the stealth checking was key to getting banned.... but take that and do what you will. If it gets us another 12 months of gaming only to be banned again next year - well to some that is probably a worthwhile risk.
Personally I still don't trust the non-stealth Hitachi firmware... nor Xtreme 5.3 -- but if you are super careful with checking the discs with agbx and re-burning any dodgy ones (with corrected ISOs), one might just survive the next ban wave. And I'd place higher trust in good stealthed self-ripped ISOs than anything else.
This has been all said before upteen times in the last 12 pages, but anyway it might help people with a re-cap.
Post by: creed7727 on December 04, 2009, 01:16:00 AM
i got ?
the people that down flashed from 1.6 to 1.4 did you use that xbox to power the drive? if so i read the xbox keep a log of all the time its power on and off so if it was powered off with out the dvd drive hookup would M$ know that and baned the xbox ? would it be best to use a mod chip to flash and then put the drive back it the box then update.........just thinking
Post by: dennyy on December 04, 2009, 01:35:00 AM
Post by: badgerlb on December 04, 2009, 08:04:00 AM
Post by: me2611 on December 04, 2009, 09:25:00 AM
QUOTE(creed7727 @ Dec 4 2009, 10:16 AM)
well hello all
i got ?
the people that down flashed from 1.6 to 1.4 did you use that xbox to power the drive? if so i read the xbox keep a log of all the time its power on and off so if it was powered off with out the dvd drive hookup would M$ know that and baned the xbox ? would it be best to use a mod chip to flash and then put the drive back it the box then update.........just thinking
Nope i used the CK3 to power mine and many others. Makes it easier IMO and its proberly safer.
Post by: sini on December 04, 2009, 09:32:00 AM
QUOTE(creed7727 @ Dec 4 2009, 08:16 AM)
well hello all
i got ?
the people that down flashed from 1.6 to 1.4 did you use that xbox to power the drive? if so i read the xbox keep a log of all the time its power on and off so if it was powered off with out the dvd drive hookup would M$ know that and baned the xbox ? would it be best to use a mod chip to flash and then put the drive back it the box then update.........just thinking
I always use xbox power supply. If you're para you can just use the nand write protect method by soldering one wire.
Post by: Slateboard on December 04, 2009, 01:52:00 PM
I want to check my already made backups in abgx, but I don't know what to check for exactly.
Post by: wyldstallions on December 04, 2009, 04:06:00 PM
its going in a banned box so just want it to run anything and everything...
Post by: kdallas on December 04, 2009, 08:30:00 PM
QUOTE(wyldstallions @ Dec 5 2009, 08:06 AM)
whats the verdict then for the best non stealth firmware for an old hitachi...?
its going in a banned box so just want it to run anything and everything...
mate if its already banned - why do you care? Just use the latest iXtreme firmware for your Hitachi. (still 1.51 I believe). Still boots everything AFAIK.
Post by: wyldstallions on December 05, 2009, 04:57:00 AM
The ones to go online I figure it may be best to use non steatlh firmware. It may be that if the backups are made correctly then they should be safe, it may be security through obsolecense.
If MS is looking for the new firmware and or stealth checks it may be that they are not interested in the odd few dives potentially running old firmware. Its not worth the resources to reverse engineer and dedicate a team to finding it beyond the old methods...
It makes me wonder though which of the huge pile of different firmwares is closest to the factory original....
Post by: ixirockx on December 05, 2009, 08:30:00 AM
QUOTE(willkr07 @ Dec 3 2009, 10:09 PM)
I have been one of the first testers for 5.3a on my Sammy and I have been playing for weeks now no ban on MW2. Also im not running a splitvid copy either.
This is my official update as of now: Still No BAN on 5.3a
Thanks for the update!
I switched out my benq for a sammy last night and flashed 5.3a
Played MW2 with splitvid and I'm still not banned
Post by: willkr07 on December 06, 2009, 12:11:00 AM
QUOTE(ixirockx @ Dec 5 2009, 09:30 AM)
Thanks for the update!
I switched out my benq for a sammy last night and flashed 5.3a
Played MW2 with splitvid and I'm still not banned
No problem I'll keep yall updated from time to time. Hopefully splitvid isnt that big of a deal.
Post by: me2611 on December 07, 2009, 07:48:00 AM
Am guessing by the fact nobody has reported being banned on 1.41 that everything is still all good for you people..
Post by: Secret-Service on December 07, 2009, 03:09:00 PM
http://www.xboxhacke...=13138.msg90519
Post by: SoloStyl on December 07, 2009, 03:54:00 PM
If your on iX1.5, iX1.51, iX1.6, iX1.61 and later GO BACK TO iX1.4, M$ will Ban you because they can see the difference.
I will search the pages Ive read that on and post when/if I find them so as to NOT raise more speculation.
but that is what i read.
good luck
Post by: ixirockx on December 07, 2009, 05:42:00 PM
QUOTE(me2611 @ Dec 7 2009, 03:48 PM)
10 days so far so good for me on 1.41. Rev 2. My cousin however as gone back online with a newley flashed LiteOn w/ 1.6fw and no ban after 9 days. I have warned him. He's been playing MW2 & GOW 1/2 online solid for over a week. Are they not banning no more lol or is he lucky? It was a 13/05/2009 model elite flashed from stock to 1.6fw. I have told him its only a matter of time but everyday he still signs in
Am guessing by the fact nobody has reported being banned on 1.41 that everything is still all good for you people..
It is probably because he flashed from stock. It seems that if you fully update your console and then flash you will not be banned (at least for now)
Post by: me2611 on December 08, 2009, 03:38:00 AM
QUOTE(Secret-Service @ Dec 8 2009, 12:09 AM)
To them whit BenQ i has createt a new firmware there fix the dashbord speed problem if some need it
http://www.xboxhacke...=13138.msg90519
I have been having this probelm with my 1.41 non stealth. I posted a thread but had no answers
When i put a game in the drive and sit at the dashboard the drive does continue to spin (sounds like 5x) also when i exit a game to the dashboard the drive will continue to spin untill i eject it. I knew something wasn't right. So i have been taking the disc out of the drive everytime i finish gaming. Will i need to apply this update then? is it from a trusted source? I have been on for a week and no ban.Thanks
Is there a link to this FW.
Post by: Secret-Service on December 08, 2009, 06:21:00 AM
QUOTE(me2611 @ Dec 8 2009, 11:38 AM)
I have been having this probelm with my 1.41 non stealth. I posted a thread but had no answers
When i put a game in the drive and sit at the dashboard the drive does continue to spin (sounds like 5x) also when i exit a game to the dashboard the drive will continue to spin untill i eject it. I knew something wasn't right. So i have been taking the disc out of the drive everytime i finish gaming. Will i need to apply this update then? is it from a trusted source? I have been on for a week and no ban.Thanks
Is there a link to this FW.
I has send the link to you on Xboxhacker
Post by: jkicsak on December 08, 2009, 04:35:00 PM
i jus flashed with SS fix for 1.41 non stealth about to take it on live.
anybody been banned recently after this?
Post by: Guest_sini2_Guest on December 08, 2009, 05:14:00 PM
QUOTE(Secret-Service @ Dec 7 2009, 10:09 PM)
To them whit BenQ i has createt a new firmware there fix the dashbord speed problem if some need it
http://www.xboxhacke...=13138.msg90519
I've lost the password on my sini account and it won't let me reset it so I've had to make a new account aargghh.
Anyway SS could you give me the rapidshare link for that firmware? to save me registering on yet another forum
I'm still on 5.3 and still going strong but if the previous posts are correct then they are not banning at the moment so we may not find out if this worked until Easter time (or before if theres any big release scheduled for before then.
Post by: not2able on December 09, 2009, 09:33:00 PM
So far so good, will keep all posted.
Post by: ixirockx on December 13, 2009, 06:44:00 AM
QUOTE(creed7727 @ Dec 12 2009, 07:57 AM)
so do we know that works for the samsung TS - H943A
Xtreme 5.3a.
Burned discs verfied with agbx, splitvid, and jitter fix.
Post by: 360beast on December 13, 2009, 01:41:00 PM
Post by: creed7727 on December 13, 2009, 09:13:00 PM
QUOTE(ixirockx @ Dec 13 2009, 05:44 AM)
Xtreme 5.3a.
Burned discs verfied with agbx, splitvid, and jitter fix.
how do you do that?
Post by: creed7727 on December 13, 2009, 09:42:00 PM
Post by: UKboxxer on December 14, 2009, 06:57:00 AM
Never been flashed before and fully updated live with stock firmware then flashed benq1.4 nonstealth.
Working perfectly so far, no issues at all.
I'll update this again in a few weeks unless the situation changes.
Post by: novella on December 14, 2009, 01:49:00 PM
Post by: napkin on December 14, 2009, 02:43:00 PM
Post by: morgan241985 on December 14, 2009, 03:25:00 PM
Post by: ixirockx on December 14, 2009, 08:11:00 PM
QUOTE(creed7727 @ Dec 14 2009, 05:42 AM)
is there setting for all games or do you use one setting for all game .....i never used this pro
All the settings should be the same for all of the games you run through abgx.
You need first aquire the latest version of the program, use the repair settings.
If you are using xtreme 5.3a you also need to do the following:
Check the box labeled "Adjust SS v1 angle 359 for iXtreme < 1.4" under AutoFix
Under Misc change the SplitVid option to "Add it if it doesn't exist or isn't valid"
Then repair it and burn it like you normally would.
Good luck.
Post by: creed7727 on December 15, 2009, 04:15:00 PM
Post by: evolution2147 on December 15, 2009, 08:33:00 PM
Thanks.
Post by: Capital J on December 17, 2009, 05:55:00 PM
Also do games ripped from original copies need to be verified with abgx?
thanx
Post by: creed7727 on December 17, 2009, 09:20:00 PM
Post by: coolethan on December 18, 2009, 12:17:00 AM
BUT, i have a liteon console. So is spoofing a sure fire way to succumb to the all mighty banhammer?
i've never been on live with it, ever.
but i wanted to know if it is known yet that your console stores bad disc data and sends it to M$ upon signing on?
i ask this because some of my backups aren't splitvid and i have played a few wave patched games before.
and i know that if i get banned once i put the hdd on an unbanned console my stuff is corrupt.
but can i backup my profiles and saves on my pc to avoid this if they do get corrupt?
and is there a way to prevent hdd crippling w/o soldering? i only have one of those crappy cold touch ones.
and they aren't banning gamertags yet, are they? i just bought a year of xbl for my live console, and i don't want to get F-ed in the A when i try to log on with my clean console.
and i understand that to have the least chance of being banned i have to:
1. flash my sammy with the orig.bin spoofed as an 83850c
2. update to the newest kernel
3. flash my sammy with the xtreme 5.3a spoofed as my liteon
4. enjoy some xbl goodness hopefully without being banned
correct?
and obviously i'm not going online with wave patched games anytime soon, but has anyone been online more than a week without splitvid, specifically with the xtreme 5.3a fw?
btw, sorry about the lengthy post, i put the important stuff in bold for supreme skim capabilities.
Edit: also anyone with ix1.41 Rev 2 Non Stealth, i would highly recommend you switch to Rev 3 (secret-service) or hex edit Rev 2 yourself. When gigabit patched the ix1.41 8x NS for 12x he edited the wrong places, i repeat HE EDITED THE WRONG PLACES. every other copy of BenQ iXtreme was done correctly, you can back this up with a hex editor in the BFB1 area it should say OC, BFBD should be 08, BFC9 should be 05, BFCE should be 02
Post by: mitch04 on December 18, 2009, 04:13:00 AM
I just bought a brand new xbox been waiting for lite touch but doesnt seem like thats going to happen.
I have a benq so I would put firmware 1.4.
So no one has been banned on 1.4 yet?
Thanks
Post by: novella on December 18, 2009, 12:32:00 PM
Post by: ver151set on December 18, 2009, 12:54:00 PM
Post by: mitch04 on December 19, 2009, 05:40:00 AM
Im really thinking about 1.4 benq. So let me get this straight 1.4 does no securty checks you just have to make sure you rip them your self right like SS V2 angles splitvid and all that.
what do people suggest
Post by: ixirockx on December 20, 2009, 10:15:00 PM
QUOTE(mitch04 @ Dec 19 2009, 01:40 PM)
oh I dont know what to do now twitter has said LT Delayed Untill Further Notice.
Im really thinking about 1.4 benq. So let me get this straight 1.4 does no securty checks you just have to make sure you rip them your self right like SS V2 angles splitvid and all that.
what do people suggest
Benq 1.41 rev 2 is what I would recommend.
Fully update your console on xbox live.
Then you can flash your console.
Backups need to be checked with abgx but do not need splitvid if you are using an ixtreme firmware
Of course it will not hurt if you do include it.
That's about it. Good luck
Post by: daman22 on December 21, 2009, 10:08:00 AM
Post by: mammolo74 on December 21, 2009, 06:39:00 PM
)thanx 4 all! if a have news about it i inform you
Post by: 360beast on December 21, 2009, 07:33:00 PM
Post by: doveman007 on December 22, 2009, 07:54:00 PM
Post by: Wooly on December 23, 2009, 01:02:00 AM
QUOTE(ixirockx @ Dec 21 2009, 12:15 AM)
Benq 1.41 rev 2 is what I would recommend.
Fully update your console on xbox live.
Then you can flash your console.
Backups need to be checked with abgx but do not need splitvid if you are using an ixtreme firmware
Of course it will not hurt if you do include it.
That's about it. Good luck
why do you recommend rev2? Rev5 has support for SSv2 so wouldnt that be better?
QUOTE(doveman007 @ Dec 22 2009, 09:54 PM)
I thought the Benq's had issues reading +R though, no?
My 2 benqs read memorex +Rs burned at 6x np
Post by: doveman007 on December 23, 2009, 04:15:00 AM
QUOTE(Wooly @ Dec 23 2009, 08:02 AM)
My 2 benqs read memorex +Rs burned at 6x np
Good to know. I've got Verbatims, but they should work if Memorex do.
Post by: evolution2147 on December 23, 2009, 08:28:00 PM
QUOTE(doveman007 @ Dec 23 2009, 03:54 AM)
I thought the Benq's had issues reading +R though, no?
benqs have the exact same laser as liteons
Post by: g-sas on December 24, 2009, 08:56:00 AM
I use one Falcon with 1.41 Rev 2 unstealth for backups and one untouched Jasper for LIVE with original games.
Post by: 360beast on December 24, 2009, 09:14:00 AM
QUOTE(g-sas @ Dec 24 2009, 10:56 AM)
The only safe way except playing originals with original firmware is to stay off LIVE until the LT firmware is released. I think you can use whatever firmware you like, if you don't ever connect to LIVE.
I use one Falcon with 1.41 Rev 2 unstealth for backups and one untouched Jasper for LIVE with original games.
LOL... why does everyone think LT is gonna be so safe? no previous FW has...and its postponed indefinite now... most liekly cause testers were banned
Post by: j3ll3 on December 24, 2009, 10:10:00 AM
i am playing with ix1.6 on xboxlive , since a month.. does that make it safe again?
people in this thread are either incredibly gullible , or incredibly stupid to think any hacked firmware is safe on xboxlive... especially not that hex-edited POS firmware from SS
Post by: 360beast on December 24, 2009, 10:25:00 AM
QUOTE(j3ll3 @ Dec 24 2009, 12:10 PM)
there's not even a new banwave yet.. so no-one got banned, so anyone is "safe" for now
i am playing with ix1.6 on xboxlive , since a month.. does that make it safe again?
people in this thread are either incredibly gullible , or incredibly stupid to think any hacked firmware is safe on xboxlive... especially not that hex-edited POS firmware from SS
agree no fw is safe... but how is SS FW a POS? he said 4 was untested.... thats all ppl had probs with... ppl used 3 and 5 ok
Post by: 360beast on December 25, 2009, 09:58:00 AM
QUOTE(evolution2147 @ Dec 25 2009, 11:12 AM)
or they just dont want to listen to everyone bitch when everyone eventually gets banned, which is completely understandable since everyone blames them for everything.
hows that a reason for postponing it? if they didnt want to hear ppl bitch theyd cancel it....no mattr how long its put off, there will always be ppl will bitch when they get banned
Post by: evolution2147 on December 25, 2009, 12:35:00 PM
Post by: mitch04 on December 27, 2009, 06:24:00 PM
No bans yet?
Lite touch is going to be a while I reckon.
Post by: 360beast on December 27, 2009, 07:17:00 PM
Post by: mitch04 on December 28, 2009, 02:10:00 AM
Thanks
Post by: 360beast on December 28, 2009, 03:06:00 PM
Post by: catchthabeat on December 28, 2009, 10:53:00 PM
Post by: Capital J on December 29, 2009, 04:31:00 PM
QUOTE(360beast @ Dec 29 2009, 09:44 AM)
so it wasnt banned? mayeb i should try to et my seller to use this. they said th eold 1.4/1.41 got instabanned...
His console was probably flagged. If he flashed from stock fw I seriously doubt he would get instabanned. It would take a day or two atleast. He had to have been flagged.
Post by: catchthabeat on December 29, 2009, 09:13:00 PM
QUOTE(Capital J @ Dec 29 2009, 06:31 PM)
His console was probably flagged. If he flashed from stock fw I seriously doubt he would get instabanned. It would take a day or two atleast. He had to have been flagged.
flagged, no not at the moment at least. Used Xval and MS website and can still register a repair.
Post by: 360beast on December 30, 2009, 06:39:00 PM
QUOTE(novella @ Dec 30 2009, 04:53 AM)
Flashed from stock to Ixtreme 1.41 non stealth rev 2 16 days ago. Still going strong.
gettin one soon with this... seller updates on live with stock, then flashed, then tested live again, no ban...
still scared of live...dont want my HD crippled as im gonna share 1 between my stock and the modded. i can just get offline games fo rit, but may need at least updates for sports games.... unless i download 3rd party updates for sites....
if i only connect to live to update certain games will that make any difference on ban/flag chance?
also this plays all waves, etc right
Post by: 360beast on December 30, 2009, 08:00:00 PM
Post by: AllSewnUp on December 31, 2009, 04:50:00 AM
He gave it to me (I gave him a banned one since he never goes on live anyways) and I played verified burnt games on my live account, but it still had never even been hooked up with an ethernet cord during the whole ban wave.
7 days ago I flashed back to original firmware, got on live and updated with the latest updates. Then I flashed it with Xtreme 5.3a and have been playing verified games on live since with no bans so far.
This is with SplitVid on all the verified games.
This really might not mean anything. It might mean I just haven't been flagged yet or that I have been and the ban wave is over for now and will pick up later, but we do know that SplitVid is needed and that stealth checks were an issue. Until iXtreme LT is released (if it ever is) it is safe to assume that Samsung Xtreme 5.3a and BenQ 1.41 v2 (or v3-4) is the safest to play on live.
With that said nothing is ever 100% safe and I doubt this is even 30% safe. But it is the best bet right now.
Everyone with BenQ 1.41 v2 or Samsung Xtreme 5.3a keep us updated or let us know if you have been banned and please be as specific as possible about your gaming habits and abgx360 verification settings.
Post by: farntheplaya on December 31, 2009, 11:07:00 AM
i had a RROD never opened console that i fixed and modded the samsung drive with ix 1.61
its been on live since NOV 3 with modern warefare 2.
still working strong on live.
ive only played mw2 and ac2 on this xbox just to keep it from playing a bad game.
so how can you tell if your SS firmware is working if I have the same results with the ix firmware?
Post by: AllSewnUp on December 31, 2009, 05:30:00 PM
QUOTE(farntheplaya @ Dec 31 2009, 12:07 PM)
so how can you tell if your SS firmware is working if I have the same results with the ix firmware?
ANSWER: We really can't know for sure. My little cousins play games (for over a year now) before they come out, nonstealth, etc. and they haven't been banned yet either. Some people just get lucky for some reason or Microsoft's detection system is at least somewhat flawed in some minor way.
No one is saying non-stealth firmware is completely safe. But since we do know that splitvid and stealth-checking were at least in part reason for the detection common sense would dictate that having splitvid and not having stealth check would be less detectable.
This is just a hopeful stop-gap until LT is released (if it ever is) and even then bans will happen.
Just want to throw in another thanks to c4eva and Team Jungle.....keep up the good work. Beat Microsoft at their own game.
Post by: 360beast on January 01, 2010, 11:31:00 AM
Post by: catchthabeat on January 01, 2010, 03:02:00 PM
QUOTE(360beast @ Jan 1 2010, 01:31 PM)
so would this be bette rto use, or the SS version?
Im using the SS version rev 3, just b.c it has the dash fix. I think both are fine, maybe SS is better b.c of the fix. Nothing is perfect or safe, take your pick.
Post by: 360beast on January 05, 2010, 07:17:00 PM
QUOTE(mitch04 @ Jan 5 2010, 04:47 PM)
Can anyone explain this please, 1.41 Rev 2 does not support ssv2??? People are going to get banned you need ssv2 support does 1.41 rev 4 support that?
Thanks
rev 2 gets banned?
Post by: mitch04 on January 05, 2010, 08:18:00 PM
I think rev 4 supports that can anyone please confirm
Post by: mitch04 on January 06, 2010, 01:29:00 AM
Thanks
Post by: 360beast on January 06, 2010, 02:33:00 PM
QUOTE(mitch04 @ Jan 6 2010, 03:29 AM)
Also If rev 2 still all good I had a look on xbits there is a Ixtreme 1.41 Rev 2 non stealth multispeed. with .bin should I put into my flash because there is 12x 8x 4x 2x
Thanks
im pretty sure i read 12x is default/ what original FWs use
Post by: coolethan on January 06, 2010, 04:18:00 PM
already had the live updates, i dl'd them yesterday off the web (not live) and installed with a usb stick.
i didn't get instabanned when i logged in, in fact
i've been on live for the past couple hours playing some glorious MW2
i'll let everyone know if i'm still on in 2 weeks.
also, i'm using my sammy for live only, for offline backups i'm using ix 1.61 with my Liteon.
for the stealth measures and everything, cause as far as i know it's only detectable if you use it on live.
and i have a clean hdd, the only backup it has seen so far is MW2 which is properly stealth patched and has split vid.
Post by: The Wizzard on January 07, 2010, 11:28:00 AM
My drive is either a samsung ms25 or ms28 and I want to use 5.3a firmware.
I have a bin file called xtreme53a.bin but also a file called 53a-ms25.bin which one should I use?
Can I use jungleflasher even though the readme says to use mktflash and also there's a make xtreme firmware.cmd file what is this for?
Thanks.
Post by: coolethan on January 09, 2010, 02:59:00 AM
ms25 and ms28 are more or less the same drive, so you don't need to worry about that.
use the 53a-ms25.bin
you can use the make xtreme fw file to make the xtreme firware. pretty self explanatory.
but, it's basically a little batch program that asks you a few questions. i think it asks which drive you have and whether you want a,b,c, or d
choose a
and it should build the fw for you.
and yes you can flash in JF, just make sure you have a valid backup of the original fw.
flash like you normally would.
and always check your games in abgx. make sure it has split vid, and tick the box that says "adjust angle 359"
everything should be good and you should be undetectable on live...supposedly.
i've been on for 2-3 days now, still fine.
Post by: 360beast on January 14, 2010, 04:50:00 PM
Post by: ckeays on January 16, 2010, 08:26:00 AM
Anyone know where to download rev 3?
Post by: daman22 on January 21, 2010, 04:08:00 PM