Post by: Xbox-Scene on November 22, 2007, 03:06:00 PM
Replace Keyvault Unbans Xbox 360 *update* Posted by XanTium | November 22 17:06 EST | News Category: Xbox360 |
| Legueux of gx-mod.com informed us that Zouzzz managed to unban his Xbox 360 console from LIVE on their forums by swapping the keyvault of his banned Xbox360 with the keyvault of another (not banned) Xbox 360. However it's not something that everyone out there can do (yet) as you'll need your CPU key (via Hypervisor Exploit and if you got banned it means you're on the latest kernel so you'll need to perform the 'Timing Attack' to downgrade first). You'll also need all the tools to read/flash your Xbox 360 NAND (with the Infectus chip for example). Here are the things he tried: * downgrade banned 5787 PAL to 4532 NTSC U, updated again to 5787 via HD. Still banned. * downgrade banned 5787 PAL to 1888 PAL, updated again to 5787 via HD. Still banned. * Patched his original 1888 PAL dump with the last number of the Xbox 360 serial in the keyvault (location A0 to AB) changed. Still banned. * Patched his original 1888 PAL dump with the all the numbers of the Xbox 360 serial in the keyvault changed. Still banned. * Replaced the full keyvault in his original 1888 PAL dump of the banned console with a keyvault of an unbanned console. Connected to LIVE OK, updated to latest kernel online OK, still connects fine to LIVE. *update* Zouzzz posted a video showing his banned console and how it'll connect fine to LIVE again after he flashes the console with his 1888 dump with patched keyvault of an unbanned console. It's a bit like the Xbox1 EEPROM 'hack' ... except that (at least for now) it's much harder to perform yourself on Xbox360. More Info: gueux-forum.net (french) | xboxhacker.net |
Post by: echto on November 22, 2007, 03:32:00 PM
Post by: HSDEMONZ on November 22, 2007, 03:34:00 PM
WOW.
Post by: halo_kingslayer on November 22, 2007, 03:39:00 PM
Post by: kidshenlong on November 22, 2007, 03:42:00 PM
Post by: Venom_ on November 22, 2007, 03:46:00 PM
Post by: Gmc on November 22, 2007, 03:51:00 PM
Post by: nishu on November 22, 2007, 03:54:00 PM
Post by: g8crapachino on November 22, 2007, 03:58:00 PM
Post by: pirichios on November 22, 2007, 04:03:00 PM
and on thanksgiving
QUOTE(nishu @ Nov 23 2007, 01:30 AM) 
It seems like it would be pretty easy for MS to just ban your Live account itself as a workaround to this workaround. Then you'd just be out $50 and whatever achievements, friends, etc. are tied to your account.
they never quite did that with the xbox 1.... so who knows if they will implement it this time around
Post by: polakis on November 22, 2007, 04:14:00 PM
How quick can they ban a console? I will unban my console every time i get banned. Which means Every 5-6 months. No one is banned right away. All the bannings are close to a dashboard update...
This post has been edited by polakis: Nov 23 2007, 12:20 AM
Post by: Martinchris23 on November 22, 2007, 04:15:00 PM
Post by: SharkSmile X on November 22, 2007, 04:17:00 PM
Edit for Martinchris23: Martinchris, you can buy that information from people who won't be using their consoles on Live/ people aren't interestend in Live in future. Like the they did in Xbox 1 era.
This post has been edited by SharkSmile X: Nov 23 2007, 12:19 AM
Post by: Martinchris23 on November 22, 2007, 04:59:00 PM
QUOTE(SharkSmile X @ Nov 22 2007, 11:53 PM) 
NOW, I WANNA SEE THE FACES OF THAT SMART*SSES WHO SAID/SAY "There is no way to unban Xbox 360, that impossible, banned consoles are screwed". Well, i knew with all my heart that this day would come. THE VERY FIRST STEP TO UNBAN THE BANNED CONSOLES! Cheers everyone!
Edit for Martinchris23: Martinchris, you can buy that information from people who won't be using their consoles on Live/ people aren't interestend in Live in future. Like the they did in Xbox 1 era.
I accept that it may be possible, however the Live experience on the original Xbox is nothing near as good as the 360 one. So many people use Xbox Live on the 360 without actually realising it! If someone wanted to buy the unbanned details of my 360, it would cost them a pretty penny.
You can pick up 360's for the cost of 3 games (2 games if you just want the console). Given the fact that you'll never need to worry about being banned again, I think it's a fair tradeoff.
Martin
Post by: nco2k on November 22, 2007, 05:03:00 PM
QUOTE(SharkSmile X @ Nov 23 2007, 12:53 AM)
NOW, I WANNA SEE THE FACES OF THAT SMART*SSES WHO SAID/SAY "There is no way to unban Xbox 360, that impossible, banned consoles are screwed". Well, i knew with all my heart that this day would come. THE VERY FIRST STEP TO UNBAN THE BANNED CONSOLES! Cheers everyone!
and they are still right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
there is no way to unban the console without a valid key! he replaced a banned key with an unbanned key... whats the big deal? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleeping.gif)
Post by: pirichios on November 22, 2007, 05:11:00 PM
QUOTE(nco2k @ Nov 23 2007, 02:03 AM)
and they are still right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
there is no way to unban the console without a valid key! he replaced a banned key with an unbanned key... whats the big deal? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleeping.gif)
cuz thats how pretty much unbannings happened in xbox 1 sir(of course hack was different, but same principle)
Post by: mrthrust on November 22, 2007, 04:36:00 PM
i wondered how long it would have taken to do...
Second: dose this require the user to have the "CPU key"
from the unbanned Console or just the "serial number"?
or will will it need to have the infectious chip installed to
read the cpu key before the Banned console can be put back online.?
Third: If both consoles went online together (same serial etc)
wouldnt that give M$ a easier way to detect the fraud..? and ban both
even if the 2nd Unbanned console hadnt had any backups played in them?
anyway well done..
prob not much use to any normal average joe out there...
but progress is everything..
Post by: SharkSmile X on November 22, 2007, 05:13:00 PM
QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ Nov 23 2007, 01:59 AM)
I accept that it may be possible, however the Live experience on the original Xbox is nothing near as good as the 360 one. So many people use Xbox Live on the 360 without actually realising it! If someone wanted to buy the unbanned details of my 360, it would cost them a pretty penny.
You can pick up 360's for the cost of 3 games (2 games if you just want the console). Given the fact that you'll never need to worry about being banned again, I think it's a fair tradeoff.
Martin
Well Martin, i can say that's really your way of thinking. I can say i know a few people who don't give bullocks about XBL. Everybody is not sensitive as you.
Post by: jb1136 on November 22, 2007, 04:51:00 PM
Post by: Xink on November 22, 2007, 05:29:00 PM
U can't just ban someone innocent.. maybe the 'hacker' just guessed a new key, and the other wouldnt have a clue..
Right?
But just a question..
What do u need to do this? infectus chip + CPU key? Because when i get banned i wanna try it, but im already at this latest kernel for XBL.. can someone tell me how i get the CPU key? or just PM it to me? make a new thread, i dont care. =P
Thanks in adv.
This post has been edited by Xink: Nov 23 2007, 01:36 AM
Post by: SharkSmile X on November 22, 2007, 05:38:00 PM
QUOTE(Xink @ Nov 23 2007, 02:29 AM)
Don't think M$ would just ban the 2 of em.. they need another solution because..
U can't just ban someone innocent.. maybe the 'hacker' just guessed a new key, and the other wouldnt have a clue..
Right?
"U" can't, MS can. Because for MS, customers are just a piece of smelly crap, they only mean brainless $$$.
Post by: bucko on November 22, 2007, 05:07:00 PM
Post by: Martinchris23 on November 22, 2007, 05:50:00 PM
QUOTE(SharkSmile X @ Nov 23 2007, 12:13 AM)
Well Martin, i can say that's really your way of thinking. I can say i know a few people who don't give bullocks about XBL. Everybody is not sensitive as you.
Must only be in certain circles then (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
The majority of my friends are using Xbox live on a daily basis, downloading demos and trailers etc, as well as anything free thrown at them (gamerpics, themes) even the odd free TV episode. That and you get your game and dashboard updates delivered to the console.
Don't you have to void the warranty on the unbanned console in order to get the data? I can't see people foregoing their 3 year ROD warranty (and any remaining 1yr warranty on everything else) for a few quid.
Still think someone would happily part with their unbanned data? I honestly don't think so.
Post by: lecsiy on November 22, 2007, 05:17:00 PM
But ye congrats this is a step in the right direction for sure.
Post by: ---=Snyper=--- on November 22, 2007, 05:34:00 PM
Still you need to buy a console to get a unbanned keyvault...
For the update.. The video needs tobe removed if Zouzzz cares about his gamertag. That is IF MS cares.
Post by: THDVL on November 22, 2007, 05:54:00 PM
Post by: Navillos on November 22, 2007, 06:03:00 PM
QUOTE(nco2k @ Nov 22 2007, 06:03 PM)
and they are still right.
there is no way to unban the console without a valid key! he replaced a banned key with an unbanned key... whats the big deal?
QUOTE(---=Snyper=--- @ Nov 22 2007, 07:10 PM)
Baby steps..
Still you need to buy a console to get a unbanned keyvault...
For the update.. The video needs tobe removed if Zouzzz cares about his gamertag. That is IF MS cares.
buy a unbanned console thats dead and use a programmer to dump the keyvault. all i gotta say is this is FUCKIN sweet, i have a spare mobo that was never banned and i will keep it now for a backup.
Post by: caster420 on November 22, 2007, 06:50:00 PM
QUOTE(Navillos @ Nov 22 2007, 08:39 PM)
buy a unbanned console thats dead and use a programmer to dump the keyvault. all i gotta say is this is FUCKIN sweet, i have a spare mobo that was never banned and i will keep it now for a backup.
The motherboard has to be in working condition for you to be able to get the keyvault information.
Caster.
Post by: myfranco on November 22, 2007, 07:50:00 PM
QUOTE(caster420 @ Nov 23 2007, 03:50 AM)
The motherboard has to be in working condition for you to be able to get the keyvault information.
Caster.
You're right.However,there are many ways to get advantage of it.
1-You have a xbox 360 freezing every 5-10 minutes.No prob when you're on the dashboard.You can use that console to have an unbanned cpu keyvault.
2-You have a board without the dvd key as you can't use that console,you can get advantage of it(but king kong game must be run right? That doesn't work then.)
3-You have a banned elite console and you buy an arcade pack...
Well,there are some options to do this.In any case it's a good progress.Congrat to zouzzz
Post by: cena4ever on November 22, 2007, 07:20:00 PM
Post by: andi_06 on November 22, 2007, 07:21:00 PM
And if we want to get technical, should this news article and alot of others even be on here.... Seems like you cant read your own rules.
Post by: InvidiousDemise on November 22, 2007, 07:48:00 PM
I'm still happy with my unhacked console tho. =)
Post by: davinator456 on November 22, 2007, 08:29:00 PM
Post by: Heet on November 22, 2007, 08:51:00 PM
Post by: ProphetOfPain on November 22, 2007, 09:29:00 PM
QUOTE(nco2k @ Nov 23 2007, 01:03 AM)
and they are still right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
there is no way to unban the console without a valid key! he replaced a banned key with an unbanned key... whats the big deal? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleeping.gif)
wow... one would think the big deal would be the fact that an xbox 360 that was previously banned from connecting to xbox live can now connect. Also, if you still choose to unban it and run modified firmware of course you run the risk of getting banned again. Ok, so you get both consoles banned... get another unbanned key and fix the other two.. so and so forth. So the process is not for the light hearted, that's not the hackers problem, they just come up with the solution. Embrace progress atleast, opens doors. yeesh..
Post by: qwerty1234567892 on November 22, 2007, 09:29:00 PM
They have the ability to detect when backups are played so BANNING is just stupid, how about simply blocking access to live when people play backups and allow it when the copy is legit? thats fair isn't it. People then actually bother to buy games and microsoft continues to collect money from it, not to mention the live fees
Post by: cofree on November 22, 2007, 09:29:00 PM
Post by: Xitherun on November 23, 2007, 12:27:00 AM
Now...to wait for an easier method.
Post by: ILLusions0fGrander on November 23, 2007, 12:29:00 AM
kinda wanted to get the cpu key then see how it did on xbox live, just to see if the 360 itself is clean since it hasn't touched live since the vulnerable dash.
excellent work considering there was a one day turnaround after the first real wave of bans.
Post by: bubbafett4hire on November 23, 2007, 12:34:00 AM
Post by: gunzdiesel on November 23, 2007, 12:58:00 AM
Flame away, cause I know it's coming.
Post by: CLShortFuse on November 23, 2007, 01:02:00 AM
QUOTE(bubbafett4hire @ Nov 23 2007, 04:10 AM)
Great news for the hack part of things but i don't think we'll ever see a generator how ever many 8- 10 million how ever many they sold so far is still a hell of a lot easier to track then the 30 some million copies of windows they have however until people stop being stupid about how they do there own little backups or even to more stupider of getting a group of friends doing there xboxs for them and then like morons all sit there on a game lobby and talk about burning and modding which is sad to say i seen happen
Don't be an ass. Use punctuation. I'm sure you're posting on this forum to share your thought but it seems the opposite when don't make any effort to be understood.
Anyway...I don't know about keygen'ing a Keyvault. Think about Windows XP keygens, the WinXP setup will accept it but Microsoft has a list of all the keys and you can't get on windowsupdate w/o cracking it. It might be possible because the keyvault might not be as complex as 25 character based on ellipsoidal formulas (xp cdkey).
Also, the Keyvault might be hashed or referenced somewhere with some other key, like the DVD key or manufacture date. It's a good step, definitely, but if there's some other crosscheck, you might see your a ban because of keyvault swap.
Post by: Heet on November 23, 2007, 01:07:00 AM
I'll just say querty that your comment on banning and backups, is false.
This post has been edited by Heet: Nov 23 2007, 09:25 AM
Post by: deilzfcjk on November 23, 2007, 01:38:00 AM
Post by: g8crapachino on November 23, 2007, 02:44:00 AM
QUOTE(Xink @ Nov 23 2007, 12:29 AM)
Don't think M$ would just ban the 2 of em.. they need another solution because..
U can't just ban someone innocent.. maybe the 'hacker' just guessed a new key, and the other wouldnt have a clue..
There are two things wrong with your assumptions...
The odds of a hacker randomly guessing a new and valid key are astronomical. You have better odds of winning the next lottery.
A so called "innocent" person purposely letting someone else mod his xbox just to get the key wouldn't be so innocent.
Post by: pdx98 on November 23, 2007, 03:17:00 AM
Post by: Barnolde on November 23, 2007, 03:44:00 AM
Post by: RuFf rYdA on November 23, 2007, 04:41:00 AM
Just alot harder to do for the average joe
Post by: bucky007 on November 23, 2007, 05:49:00 AM
But what would happen if 2 consoles with the same ID tried to log into live at the same time.
Both would get banned i Guess.
Post by: Rimbaldo on November 23, 2007, 06:48:00 AM
Although I don´t now if it makes any real practical difference to the hackers out there....
Just my newbie thoughts...
Still waiting on my 2858 kernel for the future.....
Post by: openxdkman on November 23, 2007, 06:51:00 AM
It's theoretically possible to have a few nasty guys able to get some from not yet sold consoles, and so leading to the risk to have both consoles detected and banned (if both use same key vaults online simultaneously), but honestly the hardware mod to do on not yet sold console is quite huge...
I don't think that will happen, unless the price of the "key vaults" go very high, but in that case, it will be easier to purchase a new console.
But there are still a few hacks to discover. One of them will be to identify in your firmware if you have been marked for a ban. So you can remove the mark before connecting to Live again.
It seems ban happens because you do something unexpected offline. Playing online with original and last version of firmwares seems still valid and not attracting ban. Firmwares authors strongly suggest you create backup with your own original. So, they are made for homebrewing possibility and scratches avoidance. If you get tempted by something else, you will fall. Still, homebrewing and avoiding scratches on your original can be detected as "unexpected event" by dashboard.
Maybe just dump your firmware right after connecting to live with original.
Then do something unexpected.
Then dump again and compare.
It becomes more and more interesting for everyone to mod and master firmware swapping...
Don't forget fall update may just kill any firmware swapping to the new firmware (2BL change) and kill the time attack procedure to get cpu key for those who don't have it yet.
PS: We shouldn't ignore the possibility mark may be done on the memory cards or hard disk... Also need to remove from all the buzz all the posts from people playing games online that are not even available on shelves in their area, in order to have clearer idea of how ban is decided (because their ban is obvious).
This post has been edited by openxdkman: Nov 23 2007, 03:30 PM
Post by: xboxmodder4life on November 23, 2007, 06:32:00 AM
Post by: 1nsan3 on November 23, 2007, 07:48:00 AM
Hopefulyl M$ does come out with a stronger ban this comming dashupdate.
If ya want to have a modified 360 for ofline ONLY fine but the mod/Firmware should not even allow it to connect to xbox live at all.
But i do see a very fast fix on m$'s part for this "key" deal.
personally i would be PISSED if i went to a game shop and picked up a 360 that was banned. but hey does the person who did it care? fuc* no!! do you? Probebly not, as long as it dont happen to you right....
Post by: 88 Ecko Unltd 88 on November 23, 2007, 07:46:00 AM
everyone for the great news for anyone how hasn't seen the vid here it is
LINK FOR VIDEO
This reminds me back in the old days with the xbox1
.... Never thought the 360 was gonna be so exploitable. And jet has one of so many flaws Anywayz keep the great work up
Post by: Xink on November 23, 2007, 08:30:00 AM
QUOTE(g8crapachino @ Nov 23 2007, 11:20 AM)
There are two things wrong with your assumptions...
The odds of a hacker randomly guessing a new and valid key are astronomical. You have better odds of winning the next lottery.
A so called "innocent" person purposely letting someone else mod his xbox just to get the key wouldn't be so innocent.
Well.. i dont know much about it but its byte-by-byte secured.
So i guess the process will be automated in not too long and it will just 'generate' a key.
WHEN that happnes it will guess someone elses (or a not bought consoles) key and he cant do anything about it.
The guy/girl doesnt even know when his/her key is stolen.. and will just get banned, that would suck.
Or im just all wrong. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Post by: caster420 on November 23, 2007, 09:28:00 AM
QUOTE(openxdkman @ Nov 23 2007, 08:51 AM)
Yep, a black market will open with "key vaults" from dead modded consoles put on sale...
Again, you need a working motherboard with a known dvd-key to be able to extract the information. So, yes, a RROD console could be revived long enough to downgrade, upgrade, and launch the KK exploit but it isnt a simple process. If this market does develop, it will not be cheap.
Caster.
Post by: rabbitstroker on November 23, 2007, 10:46:00 AM
Post by: flashfreak on February 04, 2020, 02:46:00 PM
QUOTE(qwerty1234567892 @ Nov 23 2007, 04:05 PM)
They have the ability to detect when backups are played so BANNING is just stupid, how about simply blocking access to live when people play backups and allow it when the copy is legit? thats fair isn't it. People then actually bother to buy games and microsoft continues to collect money from it, not to mention the live fees
Sounds like a good idea, but microsoft would rather keep them off the network just in case.
And for someones questions about 2 360's with the same key logging onto live, they would probably get banned very quickly. Microsoft would be thinking 'wtf? oh crap, they did it'
Post by: Unregistered007 on November 23, 2007, 04:12:00 PM
The method of getting your 360 unbanned is so simple even a cave man can do it.. NOT!
Post by: ironopolis on November 23, 2007, 04:25:00 PM
Post by: Devedander on November 23, 2007, 10:12:00 PM
Next up this is definitely technically impressive, but just like everyone else I can see that it's not particularly useful as the price of an unbanned key pretty much is the price of whatever xbox it comes out of... there is no value I can see of moving a key from an unbanned box to a banned one as the end result is no gain... still one banned and one unbanned.
Sure there may be straggler cases where someone modded one box very heavily and doesn't want to loose his artwork buying a new box or something, but for the intents most of us would have for it (get ourselves unbanned without buying a new 360) it doesn't have much valid merit.
The only merit it would have in that face is that broken boxes could have their key salvaged just like the other parts, and unscrupulous people sending their boxes back to MS for RROD replacement might try to keep their keys before sending it off in hopes of being able to use it later.
As a potential downside, depending on how difficult it is to generate the keys themselves I do see how this could lead to people with legit boxes being banned right out of the box. The chances are miniscule but I do seem to recall I think back when Quake 3 came out, people were key genning it and enough people did that they actually got real keys and there were indeed people buying copies of the game that would report this key already in use.
I hope this turns out to be something great for the community (ie the ability to do this leads to the ability to do something else like run homebrew) but as it is it seems at best a wash and a small possible threat to the legit customer base out there...
Post by: ORange-9mm on November 23, 2007, 11:19:00 PM
Post by: CHdude on November 24, 2007, 09:45:00 AM
QUOTE(bucky007 @ Nov 23 2007, 01:49 PM)
great job,
But what would happen if 2 consoles with the same ID tried to log into live at the same time.
Both would get banned i Guess.
I don't think so, but if the modded console get banned, the unmodded will be banned too!
Because i think that they don't monitor like u think. But in case if something is suspicious (the box failed a test for example) then they are going to flag it (put it on a list) and, if necessarily, they will ban it. So if u using a key/id which is on that "Blacklist" u will not be able to us Live...
But, woulden't it be possible to create a Key generator, like for all those programs?
Post by: $lacker on November 24, 2007, 10:43:00 AM
If enough dead keys can be gathered to ascertain any sort of pattern, it wouldn't be that hard to set something up to brute force good keys on Live. Keep trying and rotating keys until eventually it gets in. Record that and continue. The more that was found out about what was a good key and what was bad, the more efficient the generator could be made
Post by: martsmall on November 24, 2007, 03:30:00 PM
Post by: H&ck3r on November 24, 2007, 05:50:00 PM
Post by: kraaa on November 24, 2007, 09:40:00 PM
So you can turn your PAL xbox into a NTSC? FUCKING AWESOME!
Post by: manemzjum on November 25, 2007, 05:51:00 AM
QUOTE(gunzdiesel @ Nov 23 2007, 08:34 AM)
I don't really see how this helps. I mean, unless you have a 360 that's not banned to get the CPU key just laying around, that means you'd have to buy another. If you end up buying another, that'll run you about $250 or however much they're going for these days. It seems to me that the logical idea would be to have a modded to run backups, and unmodded to run legit games on live. And who's to say how long your new key will last until that's banned. If it ends up getting banned every four to five months, it's not worth it in my opinion. $500 bucks a year to buy new keys? I'd rather just buy the freaking games and play legally.
Flame away, cause I know it's coming.
Yes but how much do you spend a year on games 500 bucks thats like 10 games max if you but a core console every 5-6 months at 200 bucks thats 400 bucks a year or 8 games but within that year you have like 40 backups so i think it would be cheaper to just buy a new core console every 6 months i think i would spend more than 200 on games in 6 months so a console would be cheaper for me
QUOTE(H&ck3r @ Nov 25 2007, 12:50 AM)
Great news, but as people have said whats going to happen when people start getting banned out of the box, thats just wrong, LOL
come on you must know at least 1 person tyhat does not play online i have about 5 m8's who done play online so thats like a 5 bans for me im good for another 3 years of ban dodging
Post by: Martinchris23 on November 25, 2007, 06:19:00 AM
QUOTE(manemzjum @ Nov 25 2007, 01:27 PM)
Yes but how much do you spend a year on games 500 bucks thats like 10 games max if you but a core console every 5-6 months at 200 bucks thats 400 bucks a year or 8 games but within that year you have like 40 backups so i think it would be cheaper to just buy a new core console every 6 months i think i would spend more than 200 on games in 6 months so a console would be cheaper for me
huh??????
QUOTE(manemzjum @ Nov 25 2007, 01:27 PM)
come on you must know at least 1 person tyhat does not play online i have about 5 m8's who done play online so thats like a 5 bans for me im good for another 3 years of ban dodging
Do you think your mates are just going to let you crack open their Xbox, voiding the warranty and potentially causing permanent damage if you screw it up? Lets say one of the decides he wants to try live and you've already banned him? Are you going to buy him a new console? The cost of an Arcade console over 3 years is nothing: $7.77 a month for a brand new unit, or around $5 a month for a pre-owned unit.
Seriously, just buy a core/arcade console for online play. Leave it unmodded and use your retails online.
You *do* have the retail copies, don't you?
Post by: freyyr890 on November 25, 2007, 04:10:00 PM
QUOTE($lacker @ Nov 24 2007, 10:43 AM)
So how long is the key? Any mention?
If enough dead keys can be gathered to ascertain any sort of pattern, it wouldn't be that hard to set something up to brute force good keys on Live. Keep trying and rotating keys until eventually it gets in. Record that and continue. The more that was found out about what was a good key and what was bad, the more efficient the generator could be made
I do recall reading somewhere that it's something extraordinarily nastily big, a 1024-bit key I think. 2^1024 possible combinations = not nice.
However, if we could somehow convince the National Security Agency's cryptographers that Microsoft's private key is a threat to national security - then we could be getting somewhere.
Post by: HotKnife420 on November 25, 2007, 09:58:00 PM
On the topic at hand, though, this is a great discovery. It's possible this may lead to another unbanning solution, which may or may not require replacing the entire kv. For all those who can't think of a possible use for this, consider if you had multiple boxes. I believe it's possible to change the region of your 360 without replacing the kv. You could have a japanese box and an american box and a pal box (or whatever combination floats your boat), and one of those boxes could have previously been banned, but you have 2 good kv's still. Well, you're only one person, so it's not like you'd be using more than one xbox at a time anyway.
Post by: Xbox-Jon on November 26, 2007, 03:56:00 AM
theres got to be a set routine for every key, microsoft wont just say "yer we'll put this number here" etc there would be a program at manufacturing that decides what key to put in based on what its been programmed to do, so if this is the only way to get unbanned then i think there would inevitably be a keygen available with software to make unbanning easier, other than that i can see the unbanning process being abandoned altogether (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
although its a great find (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
This post has been edited by Xbox-Jon: Nov 26 2007, 11:57 AM
Post by: torne on November 26, 2007, 05:29:00 AM
QUOTE(Xbox-Jon @ Nov 26 2007, 10:56 AM)
theres got to be a set routine for every key, microsoft wont just say "yer we'll put this number here" etc there would be a program at manufacturing that decides what key to put in based on what its been programmed to do
Many of the keys are almost certainly randomly generated. During manufacturing the xbox is booted up while connected to a network, and the hypervisor detects that the console currently has no CPU key. It connects to a manufacturing server over the network (this is a secure challenge/response that we can't forge, before you ask) and randomly generates itself a CPU key which it tells the server. Other keys are probably generated in a similar fashion.
There doesn't need to be any magical algorithm to decide whether a key is valid - MS can just have a big list of all the randomly generated valid keys, since they have a perfectly good opportunity to record them during manufacturing.
Post by: Xbox-Jon on November 26, 2007, 12:56:00 PM
Im sure the hacking boys will do us proud though
Post by: ninjashoes on November 26, 2007, 01:35:00 PM
Post by: Xbox-Jon on November 26, 2007, 01:09:00 PM
get those damn project developers in here now 
Post by: crypticsoul on November 26, 2007, 04:29:00 PM
the only person who'd probaly know how to do it would be GARYOPA but he moved and changed his number.
Does anyone know where i can find him, that new fix changing the vaultkey is too hard to do.
Post by: Xbox-Jon on November 26, 2007, 04:37:00 PM
Post by: torne on November 27, 2007, 04:42:00 AM
1) You bought a 360 specifically to run Linux or otherwise mess around with homebrew stuff and will never ever use Live, and you already bought an Infectus and dumped your NAND and CPU key for this purpose. In which case, you might well be able to sell someone a copy of your keyvault. But.. given the current state of homebrew there are very few people doing this.
2) You bought an Infectus and dumped your NAND and CPU key to try out homebrew stuff, but now it's died and you can't get it fixed. In which case, you might well be able to sell the keyvault, or keep it for in case your replacement box gets banned. Most people messing around with 360s like this will probably keep it
So, quit asking for people to help you get unbanned. Nobody is going to fit an Infectus (16 wires!) just to dump their keyvault and give it to you (especially since if it's an up to date box you also need the timing attack board, which you may have to make yourself, and needs even more wires). It's a huge amount of effort and the only way it'll be worthwhile is if they happen to have dumped everything in the process of messing with Linux and stuff.
Post by: bwolf417 on November 29, 2007, 03:13:00 AM
Post by: torne on November 29, 2007, 05:16:00 AM
QUOTE(bwolf417 @ Nov 29 2007, 10:49 AM)
lol people just face it your banned and torne is right nobody is giveing you their key sooo my idea is go rent a xbox from your local blockbuster or just go and buy a used system and hope it works. if you can some how get the key off thoes then take it back giving some dub excuess OR just buy a new xbox and use it for live thoese would be your options right now
Er, don't recommend that please, since that's fraud. Dumping the keyvault from an xbox requires taking it entirely to pieces, voiding the warranty - it's extremely scummy to do that to a rental, or to return it to a store afterwards.
Post by: bruter on December 02, 2007, 06:02:00 AM
MY Xbox 360 has ban banned Live already
i need buy Infectus chip ?
how to fix Replace Keyvault Unbans my xbox 360 unbanned back Xbox live
help me
Post by: mr2000jp on December 02, 2007, 10:41:00 PM
Post by: torne on December 03, 2007, 07:40:00 AM
QUOTE(mr2000jp @ Dec 3 2007, 06:17 AM)
ive got a question , do i need to put the keys of an unbanned 360 to unban it , cant i just put some random numbers instead , what i mean to say , does it have to be some real numbers from another console or random numbers will work?
MS know which keys are valid. It has to be one from another 360 that's not banned.
Post by: Havok on December 11, 2007, 11:13:00 PM
QUOTE(torne @ Nov 29 2007, 07:16 AM)
Er, don't recommend that please, since that's fraud. Dumping the keyvault from an xbox requires taking it entirely to pieces, voiding the warranty - it's extremely scummy to do that to a rental, or to return it to a store afterwards.
Besides for the fact that if two boxes have the same key.. they will see it and ban that one.
Post by: zouzzz on December 12, 2007, 10:43:00 AM
1 keyvault can unban a lot of boxes.
You can play on Xboxlive simultaneously with the boxes.
Original Post : http://gueux-forum.n...h...t&p=1222756
"Translate post" : http://www.xboxhacke...g58200#msg58200
Post by: Havok on December 14, 2007, 11:26:00 PM
I still think you are taking a big risk in getting both consoles banned. If you have a friends consent, the ability to do the hack, and don't care if both consoles get banned. Be my guest!
Just because it loaded up fine for a few hours doesn't mean MS didn't detect it and won't ban the boxes in the future.
With all this banning nonsense. .. I always yell a people.. NOT being banned under a particular set of circumstances doesn't mean squat.. only accurate reports of what caused banning mean anything, its mathematical law.
[Side example: We are trying to figure out what causes sunburn. I go outside and stand in the sun and do not get sunburned. You go outside and do get sunburned. I post on a forum that the sun does not cause sunburn. (obviously not true, I just didn't experience it, and my posting does not give any insight to the problem)]
Post by: zouzzz on December 15, 2007, 09:44:00 AM
This method isn't the BIG method to unban ALL the boxes, but thismethod works for the moment.
Only two waves in six months ---> only 2 Part C could have unban all the banished boxes (in theory).
BUT since 3 ou 4 days the xboxLive ban method has changed : now MS don't ban by wave but all the days.
(sorry for my english)
Post by: bozza69 on January 01, 2008, 03:02:00 AM
microsoft can not just ban any simultaneous logins (2 boxes, same keyvault) as one of the users could be a unsuspecting 'legitmate' xbox system owner.
Post by: Arthinel on January 04, 2008, 04:40:00 AM
QUOTE(bozza69 @ Jan 1 2008, 01:38 PM)
as said before tho..
microsoft can not just ban any simultaneous logins (2 boxes, same keyvault) as one of the users could be a unsuspecting 'legitmate' xbox system owner.
Of course they'll find some reason to take all down. Inc. the original one.
Post by: Havoc Agent on January 04, 2008, 04:23:00 PM
I have a question... Since i have a dead 360 motherboard around and my working console got banned... Could i just swap the nand chips and get unbanned?
I mean, get the other motherboard's nand(unbanned) to replace my new motherboard nand (banned)... Wouldnt that be the same as replacing the keyvault?
Regards
Post by: caster420 on January 04, 2008, 09:01:00 PM
QUOTE(Havoc Agent @ Jan 4 2008, 06:23 PM)
Could i just swap the nand chips and get unbanned?
No. The NAND encryption is different for each 360 (CPU key). You would have to get your unbanned 360 working, downgrade it, upgrade it, get the cpu key, then extract the keyvault. Then do the same to the other 360 and inject the unbanned keyvault.
Caster.
Post by: lupgr on January 12, 2008, 02:47:00 PM
[email protected]
Post by: Antman1 on January 18, 2008, 06:32:00 AM
Post by: mafiafan123 on January 23, 2008, 12:11:00 AM
I Guess we will see someone doing an unban service in the future?
Oh and if the google video doesnt work for people heres a new YOUTUBE video
O remember the enigma chip and the wonders it first did. now Infectus YAY!
Post by: Mr Jackyl on January 26, 2008, 10:55:00 PM
I had 30 days of my life taken from me for my curiosity when I bought my 360.
Live is a "pay to play" network
What am I really out? The lack of market place access? I can download that same video content on my pc and run it at 1080p, I have yet to really see what the big deal with being banned is.
When I put a disk into my 360, it plays it. So how did anything negative happen?
Oh, system updates. Yeah, I'll give you that one. They really should allow updates to be downloaded from their website and put onto a usb thumbdrive and update that system in that manner. Heck, sony lets you do that, why won't uncle Bill? Oh, I know....sometimes I regret purchasing my 360, then I turn it on and see it run games in 1920x1080 and I don't have to worry about tweaking it to run, or watching my cpu or gpu temps because they are both overclocked. It's just maintrance free gaming. But, visually still is not so "next gen" as when I first bought it.
Post by: caster420 on January 28, 2008, 05:06:00 AM
QUOTE(Mr Jackyl @ Jan 27 2008, 12:55 AM)
They really should allow updates to be downloaded from their website and put onto a usb thumbdrive and update that system in that manner. Heck, sony lets you do that, why won't uncle Bill?
You can download updates, usually a few weeks after it is available through live.
Caster.
Post by: ddsdavey on January 31, 2008, 11:35:00 AM
When I put a disk into my 360, it plays it. So how did anything negative happen?"
Bit of a silly comment really mate,you obviously never played GOW,Halo 3,Team Fortress 2 etc. online or else you would not talk like that.
ALOT of people dont buy games to complete in story mode but simply to play multi player battles online
(myself included) and thats why its not good to get banned but obviously if your not that way inclined your sorted.
I know if i got banned i would sell mine immediately and get a new one!
Updates,Videos,Demos,Marketplace etc. is only one side of the coin and if that was all "Live" was about then yeah i wouldnt miss it either!
Post by: audiodisaster on February 02, 2008, 01:33:00 AM
Post by: torne on February 04, 2008, 06:23:00 AM
QUOTE(audiodisaster @ Feb 2 2008, 08:33 AM)
There has to be some other way to get a keyvault code.
The identifying information in the keyvault has been shown to be randomly generated during the first boot in the factory, so for MS to check they must have a master list of which keys are valid. Thus there is no way to pick a valid key other than taking one from another xbox or guessing (which is largely intractable due to the very large keyspace)
An easier way to recover the key from an xbox might be discovered, but there will not be a keygen.
QUOTE
Trust me on this I know some of you geniuses are saying it cant be done, but what happened when some of you guys said theres no way to unban yourself. Someone proved you guys wrong. We'll be back on again soon just give it time.
Nobody with technical clue ever said there wasn't a way to unban yourself - nobody had, at that point, established which information was used to identify the banned box, so there was no way to know. It could've been a direct derivative of the CPU key, in which case it would still be impossible now, but it turned out to be a random key instead.
Post by: greg0u812 on June 03, 2008, 10:03:00 PM
QUOTE(ddsdavey @ Jan 31 2008, 01:35 PM) 
"What am I really out? The lack of market place access? I can download that same video content on my pc and run it at 1080p, I have yet to really see what the big deal with being banned is".
When I put a disk into my 360, it plays it. So how did anything negative happen?"
Bit of a silly comment really mate,you obviously never played GOW,Halo 3,Team Fortress 2 etc. online or else you would not talk like that.
ALOT of people dont buy games to complete in story mode but simply to play multi player battles online
(myself included) and thats why its not good to get banned but obviously if your not that way inclined your sorted.
I know if i got banned i would sell mine immediately and get a new one!
Updates,Videos,Demos,Marketplace etc. is only one side of the coin and if that was all "Live" was about then yeah i wouldnt miss it either!
I kind of have to agree with Mr Jackyl on this one. The position I am in though is that I spend the majority of my "play time" in R.V. parks and such. I live in my van for at least 6 months out of the year and don't have access to a high speed connection (I do have a 27" flat panel in the van just for Xbox and Dish tv
).Although, I can understand those that would miss it GREATLY if they got banned.......Live is just not important to me since I can't use it the majority of the year anyway.
Some require it and some don't........no biggie.......it's all good.
QUOTE(caster420 @ Jan 28 2008, 07:42 AM)
You can download updates, usually a few weeks after it is available through live.
Caster.
If you would be so kind......where would one (with a banned console) go to find these updates?
Post by: scuba156 on June 03, 2008, 10:22:00 PM
Post by: leo5150 on June 03, 2008, 10:23:00 PM
Post by: greg0u812 on June 04, 2008, 02:20:00 AM
QUOTE(leo5150 @ Jun 3 2008, 11:59 PM)
Thanks guys......that got me the file and pointed me in the right direction to find out how to use it.
Didn't intend on a hijack.........sorry about that
Post by: V1pErS11 on June 12, 2008, 06:33:00 AM
Cheers
Post by: torne on June 13, 2008, 05:40:00 AM
QUOTE(V1pErS11 @ Jun 12 2008, 02:09 PM)
One question though, it is mentioned that this is similar to the eeprom hack, now I don't know much about the eeprom hack but as far as I know it wasn't required to own another un-baned xbox and get its keyvault or whatever.
No, the eeprom hack also required the identifying information from another unbanned xbox. However, this information was very easy to dump on the original xbox as it only required booting a gamesave exploit, so people who had no intention of going on Live were able to dump theirs and offer them for sale on forums for people who needed to get unbanned.
QUOTE
So does this mean that this method to un-ban the 360 will eventually not require a second xbox and be simplified?
It is extremely unlikely that it will ever be possible to unban your 360 without using the keyvault from another unbanned xbox. This was never possible with the original xbox even though that was considerably less secure. We might eventually discover a new exploit which makes it easier to dump the keys from the 360, and that would probably result in a market for unbanned keyvaults, but currently it's so hard that it's nothing more than a curiosity. The only people this is currently useful to is "people who hacked their 360 to run linux and then had it RRoD", as they're pretty much the only set of people who will have a spare unbanned keyvault
There is no guarantee that it will ever get any easier; it probably won't. MS have done a far better job this time around; the 360's security is a defence in depth. Just buy a new 360 if you want to go on Live again.
Post by: C0rpsefact0ry99 on February 02, 2009, 10:23:00 AM
Post by: torne on February 03, 2009, 06:48:00 AM
The only situation where it's really useful is if you have already dumped the keyvault from one console (to try out the exploit to boot Linux etc) and that console later dies: you now have a spare unbanned keyvault you can later use on another console. This is likely to be a really rare scenario, though.
Post by: brando56894 on February 11, 2009, 08:22:00 PM
i dont use xbox live (well gold atleast) so it wouldnt really be that big of a deal if i got banned but atleast theres a way around it now.
Post by: un]{nown on April 17, 2009, 02:10:00 PM
Keep in mind I'm not very savy on this subject so I may be speaking out my ass on this one.
Post by: torne on April 23, 2009, 06:15:00 AM
Post by: kennyinbmore on November 23, 2009, 07:18:00 AM
QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ Nov 22 2007, 06:23 PM) 
You can pick up 360's for the cost of 3 games (2 games if you just want the console). Given the fact that you'll never need to worry about being banned again, I think it's a fair tradeoff.
Martin
Actually the cost of 2 games for a refurb from gamestop. That's what I did, $125.00. By the way this fix is great and all but you still need a 2nd console to do it and if so what purpose does it serve?
Post by: eNLogic on November 30, 2009, 01:29:00 PM
Here's an Idea: Considering the fact that all data travels through the ethernet cable, couldn't you technically parse the NAND key from the data and SPOOF a different NAND? Personally, I have my XBox connected via Internet Connection Sharing in Windows. It could be as simple as running a service in the background that spoofs the XBox's NAND. Coupled with a keygen, you could change the NAND within seconds of being banned.
Or some variation of this idea. Forget all this soldering, thats too much work. We need to think spoofing.
This post has been edited by eNLogic: Nov 30 2009, 09:34 PM
Post by: Facinus on November 30, 2009, 03:21:00 PM
QUOTE(eNLogic @ Nov 30 2009, 02:29 PM)
This is good news. NAND keys can be changed.
Here's an Idea: Considering the fact that all data travels through the ethernet cable, couldn't you technically parse the NAND key from the data and SPOOF a different NAND? Personally, I have my XBox connected via Internet Connection Sharing in Windows. It could be as simple as running a service in the background that spoofs the XBox's NAND. Coupled with a keygen, you could change the NAND within seconds of being banned.
Or some variation of this idea. Forget all this soldering, thats too much work. We need to think spoofing.
Spoofing it? Yes, probably the best and easiest way to do it.
Keygen? Eh, maybe. More then likely it doesn't validate against an algorithm but against a database of keys. If there could be a keygen. Everyone should spoof as many as possible just to get them banned. Thus causing tons of legit users to be banned unfairly, creating a huge revolt. M$ would respond in one of a few ways, all of which would be good for us.
Post by: torne on December 01, 2009, 06:23:00 AM
Post by: Facinus on December 02, 2009, 09:07:00 AM
QUOTE(torne @ Dec 1 2009, 07:23 AM)
The keys are generated randomly and stored by MS during manufacturing; there is no way to make a keygen.
Like I said "Eh, maybe". Even if they are generated randomly, there will be some sort of algorithm, and if the keygen works 1 out of 10 times then its worth it. The trick is not to generate new keys, but generate existing keys. Like I said, maybe.
Post by: torne on December 02, 2009, 09:39:00 AM
The number of possible keys is vastly higher than the number of xboxes; it's not a matter of it working one out of ten times, you would have to try millions of keys before finding one that worked.
Post by: Facinus on December 03, 2009, 08:43:00 AM
As for your second paragraph, you're right. But I was always wary of the keygen bit, hence why I repeatedly said maybe. Spoofing, on the other hand, is the way to go.
Post by: torne on December 04, 2009, 05:03:00 AM