Post by: Xbox-Scene on January 01, 2007, 12:28:00 AM
| An anonymous person at the German 23C3 Hacker Congress showed what could be an Xbox360 hack/exploit during one of the 'Lightning Talks'. Lightning Talks is a daily event at Chaos Communication Congress (C3/CCC). It consists in one hour of several short (limited to 5mins) talks. In a very short presentation a masked 'hacker' showed an Xbox 360 booting up King Kong (the game, by ubisoft). After loading the game a screen pops up showing an Xbox 360 logo, a Mac logo and Tux (the Linux Penguin) and the words "coming soon...". I also noticed a small PCB is hanging out of his Xbox360 and he's using a laptop (Apple Macbook pro?), but it's not really clear what he's doing with it. Those who followed hacking discussions might remember hackers did some research around the vector shaders in the King Kong demo on the Xbox 360 Kiosk Disc (that ran from recordable media). The demo (and final game too) allow to modify the shaders (they are not checked/signed). However no exploit to take control of the machine was found back then ... so either this hacker found something here, or he's just showing us his custom modified shaders ;) That's all the details we got for now. If you don't believe the presentation was really given at 23C3, you can download the +560MB WMV video of the complete 'Lightning Talks' Day4 from the CCC mirrors (direct: mirror1, mirror2, mirror3, mirror4, mirror5, mirror6, mirror7). Forward to the 5th presentation and you'll find it there. However note that the video encoding is far from perfect and the audio seems to be broken/missing. The youtube video below shows just the Xbox 360 presentation, with audio: UPDATE1! Here are some updates from stuff people posted on our forums. Here's another footage of the presentation filmed by someone in the public. Some high-res pictures of the presentation. A bit easier to see that small PCB here. Pictures by Darkman at c3f2m.de: (IMG:http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/23c3/xbox360-hack0_s133.jpg) (IMG:http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/23c3/xbox360-hack1_s133.jpg) (IMG:http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/23c3/xbox360-hack2_s133.jpg) Also interesting is the official description of the presentation on the CCC schedule site: Quote
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Post by: garver on December 31, 2006, 11:42:00 PM
Post by: ILLusions0fGrander on December 31, 2006, 11:54:00 PM
Post by: Ninjaman on December 31, 2006, 11:55:00 PM
Post by: deilzfcjk on December 31, 2006, 11:57:00 PM
Post by: syntaxerror329 on January 01, 2007, 12:02:00 AM
I sure hope this is true!
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 12:08:00 AM
Nevermind guyz you have to boot from the game and not go into the dahs when you start up.
Post by: psxpirate1 on January 01, 2007, 12:10:00 AM
Post by: aholmes187 on January 01, 2007, 12:12:00 AM
edit: also im pretty sure i didnt see him have a harddrive connected?
This post has been edited by aholmes187: Jan 1 2007, 08:13 AM
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 12:14:00 AM
Post by: asspop on January 01, 2007, 12:21:00 AM
Post by: flashfreak on January 01, 2007, 12:24:00 AM
If i was that guy, i'd be so annoyed at the announcer, making him look like a dickhead and everything, that guy was a dumbass, u could tell he had no clue what the hell he is on about
Post by: gop on December 31, 2006, 11:48:00 PM
Post by: BrooksyX on January 01, 2007, 12:27:00 AM
Post by: Heet on December 31, 2006, 11:58:00 PM
Love how it flashes M1crosoft at boot
They are claiming to already have a kernal booting muahahahaa
Post by: gsharpshooter on January 01, 2007, 12:05:00 AM
QUOTE(Heet @ Jan 1 2007, 08:05 AM) 
Um, im sayin that shit is TOO real. Way to kick off '07!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are claiming to already have a kernal booting muahahahaa
a way to kick off 07 took the words outta my mouth if this iss true then i will cry for the rest of the yr if thats possible i hope this si real then maybe we can start usuing that action replay crap again lol i love softmoddding with that thing
Post by: dvsone on January 01, 2007, 12:10:00 AM
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 12:16:00 AM
The announcer was a retard.
Post by: Heet on January 01, 2007, 12:20:00 AM
Post by: irvo on January 01, 2007, 12:23:00 AM
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 12:28:00 AM
It could be linux running or mac.
Looks like he used a Apple Macbook pro
Seems as a white guy with glasses
Not in this country
Doesnt require HDD
the lady said it was the 360 not the laptop.
Just some facts i liked to point out.
Post by: OpticNurv on January 01, 2007, 12:31:00 AM
QUOTE(Heet @ Dec 31 2006, 11:05 PM)
Um, im sayin that shit is TOO real. Way to kick off '07!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love how it flashes M1crosoft at boot
They are claiming to already have a kernal booting muahahahaa
fucking sweet!!!!! nice to see someone finally cracked into that shit
.
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 12:32:00 AM
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 12:37:00 AM
Post by: M-K-E! on January 01, 2007, 12:41:00 AM
Mainly because the PCB everyone's wondering what it does and is (was) hanging out the side does is not there towards the end of the movie, and his laptop is on his..lap at the end when it takes that long for the video to show up of the bouncing logo. (and it looks like he's doing something on it based on his head movements)
plus, in a situation like that, i'm not sure why he would want to hide his identity if it was true...he was in a room of other people that would have loved to done what he might have done...i think he was worried of an ass woopin'.
but hey, it it's true, sweet. but i'm not really convinced by the video.
Post by: o The Drizzle o on January 01, 2007, 12:41:00 AM
QUOTE(gop @ Jan 1 2007, 01:55 AM)
I'm reminded of this...
^ what, does he just have the controller set up like a mouse? that kid must be retarded if he thought everyone would believe him.
Post by: 0794 on January 01, 2007, 12:54:00 AM
wonder if this has anything to do with the recent release of XNA...
Post by: Heet on January 01, 2007, 12:58:00 AM
I'm not saying that the video is concrete evidence to a way in, but damn it looks like it.
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 01:04:00 AM
Post by: x-s on January 01, 2007, 01:06:00 AM
"anyway...would like to see the m$ guys loughin out there....
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 01:12:00 AM
Post by: eric the midget on January 01, 2007, 01:17:00 AM
Post by: x-s on January 01, 2007, 01:24:00 AM
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 01:29:00 AM
Post by: x-s on January 01, 2007, 01:29:00 AM
Post by: BrooksyX on January 01, 2007, 01:31:00 AM
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 01:31:00 AM
Post by: x-s on January 01, 2007, 01:32:00 AM
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 01:36:00 AM
Post by: BrooksyX on January 01, 2007, 01:38:00 AM
Post by: x-s on January 01, 2007, 01:40:00 AM
QUOTE(P8ntBal2Xtreme @ Jan 1 2007, 10:43 AM)
People are forgetting about the laptop thats all he uses he sets the controller down and leaves it there. Something about that laptop. But the announcer dude ask is that the laptop or xbox and the lady went xbox or something like that.
if the disk is in and the shaders already modified in it what in the name of M$ would he do with the controller?
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 01:45:00 AM
Post by: x-s on January 01, 2007, 01:48:00 AM
QUOTE(P8ntBal2Xtreme @ Jan 1 2007, 10:52 AM)
I was just trying to point out that he is def. doing something with the laptop, and who knows what? But after looking at more info and watching the video again I would have to say it could go either way.
what he was doin is just what my siggy says.....
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 01:50:00 AM
Post by: BrooksyX on January 01, 2007, 01:52:00 AM
Post by: dvsone on January 01, 2007, 02:15:00 AM
QUOTE(x-s @ Jan 1 2007, 09:39 AM)
the custom build PowerPc Cpu is striped down so even M$ wont be able to run anything else on it!
I don't quite understand this statement can you please explain in further detail, are you saying the 360 CPU couldn't support any Linux OS?
Post by: x-s on January 01, 2007, 02:38:00 AM
Post by: Keshire on January 01, 2007, 02:42:00 AM
QUOTE(roofus @ Jan 1 2007, 02:28 AM)
The problem is, what he did can easily be duplicated by any hacker right now with the DVD firmware hack, a copy of the game (and a blank DVD+R DL), and minimal knowledge of writing DirectX shaders.
Doesn't the firmware hack need a 1 to 1 copy of the disc? That isn't to say he couldn't have just used the King Kong demo on a non-updated X360.
Post by: Hack_Bird on January 01, 2007, 02:45:00 AM
Dont know what to think I just hope it turns out to be true.Just like the Firmware hack/mod whateffer the name it got.
Show us more, and gife X-S or like them a litle evidense.
What is your gamertag ?
Damm, Ik hoop gewoon dat het waar is... Duitsland is niet zo ver weg van Nederland dacht ik ... haha Ben gewoon mn engels weer kwijt ....
Post by: x-s on January 01, 2007, 02:50:00 AM
QUOTE(Keshire @ Jan 1 2007, 11:49 AM)
Doesn't the firmware hack need a 1 to 1 copy of the disc? That isn't to say he couldn't have just used the King Kong demo on a non-updated X360.
http://forums.xbox-s...hp/t475781.html
Post by: Keshire on January 01, 2007, 03:02:00 AM
QUOTE(x-s @ Jan 1 2007, 03:57 AM)
Aye I knew of that. Just commenting on his inclusion of the firmware hack. As it'd not be needed for his scenario.
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 03:10:00 AM
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 03:15:00 AM
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 03:18:00 AM
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 03:24:00 AM
Post by: x-s on January 01, 2007, 03:32:00 AM
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 03:34:00 AM
Post by: [email protected] on January 01, 2007, 03:35:00 AM
Post by: x-s on January 01, 2007, 03:53:00 AM
Some notes
The Congress is NOT a LAN party.
We won't provide space for gamers and there will be no exceptions to the rule.
The same goes for warez traders.
We mean it.
Please accept that it is NOT allowed to maintain your own WaveLAN base station at the Congress.
The Hackcenter is no place to store your luggage. Please use the cloak room.
The Hackcenter in no place to camp during the congress.
Please sleep at the gym. You can even take a shower there.
Post by: luther349 on January 01, 2007, 03:58:00 AM
Post by: postaldude25 on January 01, 2007, 03:59:00 AM
QUOTE(turbo-donkey @ Jan 1 2007, 12:01 PM)
tried the movie cant get sound to play tried in vlc 8,6 and windows media piece of shit player..
anyone got sound on that video please let me know what u used
Post by: Aislin on January 01, 2007, 04:03:00 AM
Sure it would be nice, but even I could have done that. And I've never programmed anything.
Post by: Klutsh on January 01, 2007, 04:04:00 AM
QUOTE(postaldude25 @ Jan 1 2007, 11:06 AM)
tried the movie cant get sound to play tried in vlc 8,6 and windows media piece of shit player..
anyone got sound on that video please let me know what u used
I'm trying to load it into premier, hoping to export just the good bit
Premiers conforming is taking ages though, already killed my PC once.
Post by: x-s on January 01, 2007, 04:17:00 AM
QUOTE
I'm trying to load it into premier, hoping to export just the good bit
Premiers conforming is taking ages though, already killed my PC once.
dont bother...has no sound
Post by: Klutsh on January 01, 2007, 04:37:00 AM
Premier crashes, TMPG & Nero wont load it.
Post by: ivc on January 01, 2007, 05:14:00 AM
http://picpaste.de/xbox360-hack0.jpg
http://picpaste.de/xbox360-hack1.jpg
http://picpaste.de/xbox360-hack2.jpg
First picture looks interesting.. The chip does not seem to be connected to the HDD connector on top of the console but rather connected internally. It also seems that the PCB interfaces with his PowerBook, probably through USB.
-ivc
Post by: Justincredibal on January 01, 2007, 05:50:00 AM
Everything he has showed us can be replicated. The only reason people are giving it credit is because of the pcb hanging out of the xbox.
I hope I am wrong, but we have been let down to many times.
Post by: chigga102 on January 01, 2007, 05:53:00 AM
QUOTE(CandieCorpse @ Dec 31 2006, 11:48 PM)
the pcb/wires hanging out of the 360 might be here becouse its a dev unit/beta unit, i remember seeing pictures of the beta 360 had wired coming out the top.
If what you said is true then maybe the person is a license developer and are hiding their identity so they wont get fired
Post by: JayDee on January 01, 2007, 06:11:00 AM
I do not think a major hack could be just one mans work unless it is a custom shader (lets hope not), but lets see, we have the hd-dvd hack that looks like one mans work if real...
Post by: skippy911jp on January 01, 2007, 06:51:00 AM
QUOTE(alterswede @ Jan 1 2007, 02:51 PM)
is it possible to boot a game with the 360 upside down?
im not willing to try
I was thinking the same thing but if you notice near the end of the video the 360 is right-side-up again.
Post by: [Knuckles] on January 01, 2007, 06:52:00 AM
CODE
mencoder lightning4-t4s4.wmv -o movie-fixed.wmv -ovc copy -oac copy
gets it done.
Doesn't help a lot though, you don't get to see much more than on the youtube video.
Post by: mortyblack on January 01, 2007, 07:00:00 AM
Post by: mlapaglia on January 01, 2007, 07:19:00 AM
what was up with the video? it seems legit, im sure they wouldn't just let him walk on the stage, it's all laid out before hand.. i loved the mask lol. i don't care who he is, i want linux running on my 360! w00t 2007
Post by: ben1989 on January 01, 2007, 07:28:00 AM
QUOTE(mortyblack @ Jan 1 2007, 04:07 PM)
its fake... and its as intressting as running linux on a ps2 without hd...
keep ur snidy comments to youself !!!
QUOTE
could this be jtag related? (5 wires? besides, that connector is for jtag...mostly)
thanks to uberfry on xbox hacker
Post by: epsilon72 on January 01, 2007, 07:39:00 AM
Post by: ben1989 on January 01, 2007, 07:40:00 AM
we need to merge these forums 2gether lol
Post by: infidelity on January 01, 2007, 08:00:00 AM
Post by: rasstar on January 01, 2007, 08:02:00 AM
Post by: ben1989 on January 01, 2007, 08:05:00 AM
QUOTE(rasstar @ Jan 1 2007, 05:09 PM)
This is fake.
another pointless psot
Post by: hiros on January 01, 2007, 08:28:00 AM
Connecting the Xbx360 DVD SATA cable to a Laptop HDD SATA and emulate the DVD-ROM response via Linux should be possible.
Happy New Year 2007 to all!
Post by: Hack_Bird on January 01, 2007, 08:40:00 AM
the Cheap Xboxo 60Post by: sabbath_dude on January 01, 2007, 08:59:00 AM
QUOTE(thedark1 @ Jan 1 2007, 03:07 PM)
I for one hope that this is not true! Up until today (since I don't know what tommarow will bring) MS has not done anything like banning consoles from live or where ever. They may have tried on the sly and failed idk, but if this happens and ppl start to run unsigned code they may actualy start activly banning ppl from live which would suck. All that gone just to basicly make the 360 into a pc. I'm guessing that if you can read this then you already have a pc and or have axx to one.
If you think other wise or can prove me wrong please let me know. Since I don't work for MS I can't say waether or not my statements are true or not but wth.
I don't really understand why you would have a problem?. If you don't want to risk being banned from Live then dont mod your console. If other people choose to do it then how will this affect you?.
QUOTE(rasstar @ Jan 1 2007, 03:09 PM)
This is fake.
Why even bother to post a comment like this?. At least try and explain why you think it might be "fake".
I don't know much (anything really) about hacking the 360s security but the video and demonstration look/seem to be legit. If I were that guy I'd also want to keep my identity secret. Mainly because if it does lead to bigger things like running unsigned code then I'd guess M$ probably wouldn't be too happy. Hopefully this hack can be used for more than just displaying a Tux logo on the screen though. It would be so good to have xbmc running on the 360 with all that extra power
.
Post by: dxj1973 on January 01, 2007, 09:34:00 AM
QUOTE(ben1989 @ Jan 1 2007, 09:35 AM)
keep ur snidy comments to youself !!!
thanks to uberfry on xbox hacker
the cpu does have a test\debug section with a jtag interface built in.could it be.....
from - http://www-128.ibm.c...nxw09XBoxDesign
"The Xbox 360 CPU chip has testing and debug functions, including tracing, configuration control, and performance monitoring features. Access to these functions is through the block in Figure 1 labeled test/debug. The block labeled Miscellaneous IO provides a JTAG port, a POST monitor, and an interface for a serial EEPROM in case patch logic configuration was needed during bring-up."
is he taking over the debug section of the cpu? the cpu will have already run its checks. then run this "logo script" remotely from the laptop via jtag interface?
fpga programing is done this way. could this be possible in the 360?
Post by: rootofallevil on January 01, 2007, 09:41:00 AM
Post by: ben1989 on January 01, 2007, 09:44:00 AM
QUOTE(rootofallevil @ Jan 1 2007, 06:48 PM)
this pic has been posted once!!
Post by: JesseWHHS on January 01, 2007, 09:53:00 AM
I don't know what to think about this, its awesome. I think it will turn into sumthin more in the coming months. Too bad for me I sold my 360 a few days ago...
Post by: Juniorman030790 on January 01, 2007, 09:56:00 AM
Post by: rootofallevil on January 01, 2007, 09:57:00 AM
LOL i found it
Post by: dinzy on January 01, 2007, 10:08:00 AM
QUOTE(rootofallevil @ Jan 1 2007, 06:04 PM)
LOL i found it
That is not the same board in the video. That one has a 5 pin connector, a raised usb port, a very yellow cap and only one IC.
Post by: jaimebenlasnow on January 01, 2007, 10:15:00 AM
Post by: blackchild1101 on January 01, 2007, 10:18:00 AM
Post by: Heet on January 01, 2007, 10:22:00 AM
Post by: Textbook on January 01, 2007, 10:25:00 AM
That's my guess as to what it is.
Post by: shlaimon on January 01, 2007, 10:49:00 AM
probably not fake, but shade "hack" , common it doesnt really give any kind of opportunitys for a real hack.
unix/mac os running on the 360 sounds like a dream, we want XBMC360! i dont give a crackers about linux, if i wanted linux i would buy an computer for that purpose insted!
I want real proof, and explanations "how it works". not some crackt up guy on a video!
Post by: 90CelicaST on January 01, 2007, 10:53:00 AM
Post by: d-range on January 01, 2007, 11:03:00 AM
QUOTE(shlaimon @ Jan 1 2007, 06:56 PM)
unix/mac os running on the 360 sounds like a dream, we want XBMC360! i dont give a crackers about linux, if i wanted linux i would buy an computer for that purpose insted!
To get something like XBMC360 running there would first need to be access to the official 360 XDK. Or someone would have to write fully working linux drivers for the gpu & video hardware. I don't see either happening very soon.
Also, if this is actually a debug box I'm curious if this hack (if true) is even relevant to real homebrew. Usually the JTAG circuits are blown on retail machines.
Post by: JeLlYfIsH on January 01, 2007, 11:28:00 AM
QUOTE(BSoul @ Jan 1 2007, 07:08 PM)
edit:
the irc server/channel at the end he is saying is
irc.freenode.org
#23c3
There doesnt seem to be much going on in that channel, but there are some silly germans teasing folks that are coming by asking ???s. One said member in the channel is "DeViLs360." I'm not sure if this is the same guy from the previous scandal, just a thought.
DeViLs360 is "DeViLs360" ([email protected])
(14:12:02) DeViLs360 reg in #23c3
(14:12:02) DeViLs360 using irc.freenode.net (http://freenode.net/)
(14:12:02) DeViLs360 has been idle for 4mins 28secs
Post by: BSoul on January 01, 2007, 11:35:00 AM
http://events.ccc.de...gress/2006/Home
Post by: MaTiAz on January 01, 2007, 12:06:00 PM
QUOTE(unklejoe @ Jan 1 2007, 07:41 PM)
i dont know if this is possible or anything but couldnt you possibly use the jtag interface to run some sort of code that can read the m$ signature code from within the console?
The public key which is used to check if the game/program is signed is inside the console, but the key to actually sign the programs isn't, so if I understood your question right, no, it's not possible.
Guess how fucked MS would be if this was true
Good that I have one from the Europe's first batch of 360's
Post by: Sedna on January 01, 2007, 12:42:00 PM
"The XBox360 was live hacked in front of the audience - running Linux and Mac OS coming soon. Stay tuned - a Linux kernel is already booting.. "
Post by: Zeze21 on January 01, 2007, 12:44:00 PM
THe ccc is the real thing. To give you one example what they have done would be that they were the first to "crack" your sweet little fingerprint identification system you have at every airport in the us. The give computer and philosophical advise to the german government. I would cosider them more as a group of freely thinking people rather than plain hackers. They also discuss ethical questions about computers and computer related things...
It would be more than embarrassing for the ccc if this was just a hoax
So if this is from a ccc convention then there will be more soon...
Believe in the Germans ;-) (not to be taken wrongly ;-) )
Post by: gottastopdrinkin on January 01, 2007, 01:02:00 PM
Then I'll buy a 360
I'll believe when I see!
Then I'll buy a 360
Post by: MaTiAz on January 01, 2007, 01:08:00 PM
QUOTE(unklejoe @ Jan 1 2007, 08:32 PM)
what i dont understand is how does the console know if it is legitimately signed, wouldnt it have to have a copy of the "top secret", non public key, to compare it to?
Nope. RSA doesn't work that way. There's the private key used to sign stuff, and the public key used to check the signature of the stuff.
kfernandes29: lol, yeah, he's just chatting on IRC
Post by: dre74 on January 01, 2007, 01:11:00 PM
Post by: HeXDeMoN on January 01, 2007, 01:12:00 PM
Post by: Sedna on January 01, 2007, 01:43:00 PM
QUOTE(HeXDeMoN @ Jan 1 2007, 09:19 PM)
to me it looked like it took a long time for that screensaver of the linux icon to boot , and u see him fiddleing in the back , who knows if he didnt hook up the projector to a computer? What he did proves nothing , it was nothing more then a screensaver.
you guys just dont know what chaos computer club is... they have been here since 1981...
they have very high reputation and thats why a video proves a lot if it is from them!
Post by: TrailerUK on January 01, 2007, 01:43:00 PM
Post by: G0t M4xx 21 on January 01, 2007, 01:46:00 PM
As always, it's good to be skeptical, don't want to get your hopes up about nothing, but this does seem promising.
Post by: evilgizmo on January 01, 2007, 01:48:00 PM
Post by: Monte2 on January 01, 2007, 01:49:00 PM
QUOTE(Zeze21 @ Jan 1 2007, 08:51 PM)
To give you one example what they have done would be that they were the first to "crack" your sweet little fingerprint identification system you have at every airport in the us.
I fly all over the states and have never had nor seen any fingerprint identification done.
Post by: RayJay on January 01, 2007, 01:52:00 PM
He is using the unsigned Kiosk-Demo-Disc to run modiefied content with King-Kong.
To do that you would need to burn every modification to disc and try untill you find a exploit,
the only possible way to do so is to emulate the DVD-Drive, then you only need to modify the
shaders right on your PC-HDD and let the 360 boot form your virtual disc.
That would also explain the upside-down position of his 360, its a HINT: there is no media present in his drive.
Oh, and the logos mean nothing, hes only working on a bootloader, wich then opens up possible ports to the 360.
Post by: Sedna on January 01, 2007, 01:53:00 PM
QUOTE(Monte2 @ Jan 1 2007, 09:56 PM)
I fly all over the states and have never had nor seen any fingerprint identification done.
try flying INTO the states... and be a non US citizen...
Post by: Lamer123 on January 01, 2007, 01:54:00 PM
Why is this so hard to believe??
Post by: Havok on January 01, 2007, 02:09:00 PM
QUOTE(RayJay @ Jan 1 2007, 08:59 PM)
That would also explain the upside-down position of his 360, its a HINT: there is no media present in his drive.
Xbox's work perfectly fine with media in them even upside down.
Post by: The*galloping*zebra on January 01, 2007, 02:13:00 PM
You can look for flaws in the video but nothing but time is going to tell so I'm just gonna sit back and take it as it comes.
Post by: msr on January 01, 2007, 02:35:00 PM
what likely steps does this person now need to take, from what you guys have seen, and what you know of hacking these things.
Post by: cossie121 on January 01, 2007, 02:35:00 PM
Post by: bff_foeva on January 01, 2007, 02:43:00 PM
Post by: gottastopdrinkin on January 01, 2007, 03:01:00 PM
QUOTE
lmao, maybe...just maybe....well.....we need to ask that lady sitting next to him, what the laptop was connected to and stuff....and where. Could we get a close up of the back of the 360? we get like 2 or 3 views of it...*
Do you think he's NEVER going to release anything or something? Maybe he won't if its fake, but if it's real he's not gonna be the only person to have a 360 running homebrew.
I hope Team XBMC move development to the 360, if its true of course.
Post by: bucko on January 01, 2007, 03:07:00 PM
Post by: [Prophet] on January 01, 2007, 03:12:00 PM
QUOTE(Monte2 @ Jan 1 2007, 10:56 PM)
I fly all over the states and have never had nor seen any fingerprint identification done.
I've flown into the states about 8 times since september 11, and funnily enough, have been subjected to the fingerprint system every time.
I doubt domestic flights would be subjected to such a scheme. However, international citizens most certainly do get their fingerprints put on record.
Post by: ben1989 on January 01, 2007, 03:22:00 PM
stop the fuking slating
Post by: gdeciantis on January 01, 2007, 03:22:00 PM
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 01, 2007, 03:25:00 PM
Post by: thebaboon on January 01, 2007, 03:25:00 PM
QUOTE(gdeciantis @ Jan 1 2007, 04:29 PM)
It's a complete fake. The screen went blank for an entire minute. In that time I could have started an XNA application with the graphics he showed. The PCB is just there to draw your attention.
Start an XNA app from within a game, without going to the dashboard?
Post by: boza111 on January 01, 2007, 03:25:00 PM
Some of you guys have suggested and hinted that maybe there was some other video source or he might have used his laptop.
If you look at the top right corner at the beggining of the video you will notice that it has a little square box saying which video source is selected. (even though we cant read it it doesnt matter)
When it gets to the king kong screen the "box" times out.
|If he swapped the video sources the box would reappear when there was the tux mac logo.
Do you guys see what i mean
Post by: wap32 on January 02, 2007, 10:34:00 AM
the video looks real and I don't think someone would go to a conference to show a fake hack, but we'll see soon I guess
Post by: DivyX on January 02, 2007, 10:50:00 AM
Brings back memories. And it's been over year. Statistically this perhaps would be the time we start to see full compromise hacks? Statistically lol. Still doubtful.
Post by: OmegaSupreme on January 02, 2007, 11:11:00 AM
controversy......it seems promising enough but only time will tell.
Post by: jaimebenlasnow on January 02, 2007, 12:43:00 PM
QUOTE
No booting details known. [if you could connect to JTAG-pins and figure out how to use on-chip debugging features, you might be able to single step the boot code, bypass the boot loader altogether and get direct access to hardware and memory etc. You might also be able to create your own modified boot loader into RAM. As the boot ROM resides on-chip, the mods may need always some kind of hardware solution, for example a simple FPGA with an external Flash containing a modified boot monitor which will be downloaded using the JTAG interface during power-up by the FPGA. Once the boot sequence and protection is RE'd one may be able to find a software-only solution to circumvent the protections.]
[Also, it might be possible to arrange a remote access over Internet to this JTAG interface/debugger for selected skillful persons: Those persons might even use some kind of messenger conference call to use debugger together and see in real-time what's going on. Messenger with a secured remote desktop access might do the job.]
Changes between beta hardware and final:
Alpha hardware = macintosh
Beta = ? looks like retail, but no encryption
Second beta =! retail
Tried to dump RAM, could only dump virtual memory
RAM is at 8000_0000
Southbridge: pci config space, mapped to VM, accessible by user apps.
Memory at bottom looks random/encrypted, might be hypervisor 256 KB.
8040_0000 xbox kernel starts, MZ header
Read memory using debug interface: everything is in plaintext, you can read kernel + app (dashboard etc.), i.e. virtual memory is not encrypted
Kernel interesting to disassemble
Communication with hypervisor using syscalls
Hypervisor does interrupts/exceptions.
Post by: ben1989 on January 02, 2007, 01:07:00 PM
QUOTE(aaar9800 @ Jan 2 2007, 09:50 PM)
i brightened the picture, where the tux mac logo is floating on the screen:
http://rube.741.com/xbox360-hack2.jpg
the logo has already loaded and he is fiddling with a usb cable and probably that adapter. did he just unplug it, or is about to plug it in? if the latter, what was the adapter thing for then?
the woman is looking at him funny though
No worki m8
Post by: jaimebenlasnow on January 02, 2007, 01:16:00 PM
QUOTE
No booting details known. [if you could connect to JTAG-pins and figure out how to use on-chip debugging features, you might be able to single step the boot code, bypass the boot loader altogether and get direct access to hardware and memory etc. You might also be able to create your own modified boot loader into RAM. As the boot ROM resides on-chip, the mods may need always some kind of hardware solution, for example a simple FPGA with an external Flash containing a modified boot monitor which will be downloaded using the JTAG interface during power-up by the FPGA. Once the boot sequence and protection is RE'd one may be able to find a software-only solution to circumvent the protections.]
This is why he use is Laptop:
QUOTE
[Also, it might be possible to arrange a remote access over Internet to this JTAG interface/debugger for selected skillful persons: Those persons might even use some kind of messenger conference call to use debugger together and see in real-time what's going on. Messenger with a secured remote desktop access might do the job.]
And there is very like very good information that lead me to this:
QUOTE
Disassembling old kernel - it accesses a serial port
SERIAL PORT!!: debug info written to on debug box, 115k
boot monitor: send special character '@' -> talk to boot monitor
plaintext interface
you can read/write memory, execute code
bootloader runs before hypervisor setup
boot monitor works on physical memory
write to pci config space possible, read memory, write memory
c000xxxx: THE interesting stuff is HERE!!!! can't be accessed - hangs
c8xxxxxx NAND - bootloader reads from there, copies to RAM
hack: use network to dump in boot monitor, just didn't work :- (something might not be configured yet
* read
* write
* init ram
everything before uses no ram
in bootloader: 1010101010 patterns - bus/memory training?
Post by: unklejoe on January 02, 2007, 01:40:00 PM
Post by: ben1989 on January 02, 2007, 01:45:00 PM
QUOTE(xboxfree @ Jan 2 2007, 10:37 PM)
yes ??
Post by: Fragreaver on January 02, 2007, 01:49:00 PM
Post by: Zeze21 on January 02, 2007, 02:00:00 PM
QUOTE(Fragreaver @ Jan 2 2007, 10:56 PM)
According to a thread in the xboxhacker board it's just a fix for a defective trace on the mainboard.
@fragreaver du? auch hier?
Finally the germans arrive... ;-) evo-x.de roxx
BTW the Bag to me looks like the usual saturn bag which is a company like best buy just in germany and i don't really know if there is saturn in the netherlands so...
Post by: Strag0 on January 02, 2007, 02:11:00 PM
Does anyone have a clue who she is? Perhaps someone who was at the convention and caught her name.
Post by: Fragreaver on January 02, 2007, 02:34:00 PM
edit>> why the hell contact microsoft? they dont cooperate with hackers, team xbox-linux already tried and failed .........
Post by: ben1989 on January 02, 2007, 02:38:00 PM
Post by: iamdusted on January 02, 2007, 02:50:00 PM
QUOTE(ben1989 @ Jan 2 2007, 10:45 PM)
v
All my doubts have been quashed.
Post by: Zeze21 on January 02, 2007, 03:59:00 PM
QUOTE(iamdusted @ Jan 2 2007, 11:57 PM)
All my doubts have been quashed.
LOL but fragreaver had a point there m$ will not work with those guys i smell something fishy from ben especially that v (probably from ctrl+v)....
Post by: Zeze21 on January 02, 2007, 04:20:00 PM
well ben pn me and i will see if it still smells fish and whom i would have to give a bath u or me
Post by: gothi on January 02, 2007, 04:26:00 PM
QUOTE(ben1989 @ Jan 3 2007, 01:26 AM)
nope i gave sominfo out and i was told that i must remove it so i did
and u u smell fishy i suggest u geta bathSaying that you had 'no new info and that your source had to get in touch with Microsoft first' isn't something I'd consider that you had to remove if I was your source.
Word of advice, back down unless you have solid evidence to back up what you claim, forums are vicious and if people even half suspect you're trying to pull a fast one they can get quite nasty.
Post by: Zeze21 on January 02, 2007, 04:54:00 PM
QUOTE(gothi @ Jan 3 2007, 01:33 AM)
Word of advice, back down unless you have solid evidence to back up what you claim, forums are vicious and if people even half suspect you're trying to pull a fast one they can get quite nasty.
Especially don't mess with the Germans.... LOL
Post by: .:Dino:. on January 02, 2007, 04:54:00 PM
Post by: unklejoe on January 02, 2007, 05:07:00 PM
Post by: moonboy33 on January 02, 2007, 05:48:00 PM
QUOTE(E-Vix @ Jan 1 2007, 11:47 PM)
The mystery guy in the video is probably from the Netherlands. The plastic bag he uses to carry his 360 in is from a Dutch computershop named Dynabyte.
It´s actually a plastic bag from a German/Austrian Computeshop called "Saturn". It has the company´scolors (Blue/Orange/Black) and you can clearly recognize the name of the company in the first secs. of the video for a moment!
Post by: chiribomb on January 02, 2007, 06:15:00 PM
anticipation is better than the moment
just play with your wii or what ever until it happens.
Post by: dirtlegdan on January 02, 2007, 06:37:00 PM
QUOTE(chiribomb @ Jan 3 2007, 02:22 AM)
......just play with your wii wii......?
I may have quoted that wrong
<------Wow look at my post count!
Anyways, this is very interesting stuff happening right now, can't wait to see what this produces.
Post by: Beko on January 02, 2007, 07:33:00 PM
1) On this image you can clearly read "SATURN" on the bottom of the bag. I know these bags, had a lot of them. So this is 100% a SATURN-bag. Doesn't contribute much to the conversation but I just wanted to tell.
2) I cut and reencoded the part out of this incredibly ugly 500 MB-WMV and put it into a nice 12 MB XviD-AVI for those who hate proprietary codecs and love open source like me.
ccc-lightning-x360hack-reencode.avi
Linux and Open Source FTW!
Post by: HoRnEyDvL on January 02, 2007, 09:55:00 PM
Post by: aholmes187 on January 02, 2007, 10:39:00 PM
1. being able to boot a linux kernel/mac os.....you dont just put a linux install disk in....custom drivers have to be written correct? ie video, sound? like on xbox one running linux, didnt most programs have to be edited in order to run?
2. there is no microsoft sdk out in the wild correct? im not talking about the 99 doller a year XNA. so we would be unable to write and compile our own code to run under the ms kernel, we would have to write for the linux kernel?
3. to get a useable version of linux up and running with useable programs we would need harddrive support?
im not flaming....im just asking questions.
Post by: x-s on January 03, 2007, 12:52:00 AM
Post by: Morlok8k on January 03, 2007, 01:17:00 AM
QUOTE(x-s @ Jan 2 2007, 11:59 PM)
interestin about that pcb is that the 360s conected to usb (4 wire) not to TX/RX so cant have anything to do with FPGA
now that is interesting!
Post by: xuoq on January 03, 2007, 01:38:00 AM
Post by: Sedna on January 03, 2007, 01:54:00 AM
why did he plug in the controller if he did not need it anyway? maybe something went wrong and he wanted to show more?
Post by: TAz00 on January 03, 2007, 03:25:00 AM
Post by: Cappadonna on January 03, 2007, 04:58:00 AM
Post by: Beko on January 03, 2007, 05:06:00 AM
Post by: snyder80 on January 03, 2007, 05:30:00 AM
The MS service team must/or should at least be able to connect to the x360 for diagnostics, right?
What if they use a similar pcb like anonymous did, to run some infosoftware on a repairstation-PC reading the memory from the x360. Similar to a connection where u can flash the old xecutor2 chips via paralelport.
Anonymous maybe found a debug-thing in konkong and DID tell the x360 to turn into debug/devkit/analyse mode where u can send data to the x360 wich are daisychained to the AVoutput.
Im a noob in hacking so in short:
He needed the Laptop to get some kind of bufferoverflow/debug mode on the x360 via the pcb from the laptop and sent the OSx/linux video from the laptop to the AVoutput of his x360...
Happy hacking
,Snyder80
PS: IF he partly faked, could he maybe "just" added a executable-link in the kingkongshaders for the Linux-OSX-screensaver he made in XNA?!?
Post by: lufcfan on January 03, 2007, 05:59:00 AM
QUOTE(TAz00 @ Jan 3 2007, 10:32 AM)
Or, the game wont continue without a controller....
Spot on... watch the vid again closely, and you'll see that when the Ubisoft animation finishes and the 'King Kong' splash screen comes on, it quickly prompts to press 'A'. From here, the little 'loading' message appeared in the bottom right corner, the screen goes blank and then the 'Linux Coming Soon' animation pops into view...
Post by: OpticNurv on January 03, 2007, 07:07:00 AM
QUOTE(censor @ Jan 3 2007, 05:59 AM)
when will you guys finally understand that this is NOT presented by the CCC! it's NOT an official CCC lecture, just some sort of soapbox for everybody - held at an CCC event.
If somebody from M$ showed up there and would have showcased Windows Vista, you wouldn't say that the CCC wrote a new Operating System, or do you?
dont dwell on that shit, if it was shown at a hacker convention then it was more than legit
legit enough to where i would say i'm willing to bet on my life that its the real deal.
who cares who made it, it's been done, now all we have to do is play the waiting game, i have $50 saying it's leaked before march
Post by: kaigoh on January 03, 2007, 07:50:00 AM
So, in theory, the 360 security systems prevent buffer overruns; but what if Mr A has found an exploit and simply executed some crude code? That USB stick looks the deal, there is the possibility that he has got some sort of memory card \ hdd emulator running on that laptop.I didn't notice any storage medium in the video (memory card, hdd), I didn't think King Kong would even get as far as the menu without somewhere to cache its files or create a save game? It would explain the long loading time anyway.
As far as swapping the video source, I think we can rule that out because, as has already been mentioned, the projector would have definatly picked it up.
Those lines on the screen look suspiciously like the graphics buffer wasn't being refreshed correctly, I suspect a hack involving shaders would definatly leave artifacts on the screen.
If this does turn out to be the shit, I'm not sure how far we can expect to exploit the console. I read somewhere that the 360's processor can "fix" itself. So I wounder how long it would take M$ to simply send a new update a destroy what may have been achieved. Lets face it, 60% of 360s are plugged into Live! so its not going to take much for Microsoft to patch a large majority of consoles in a short period of time.
Sorry if I'm mumbling, had an early start today!
Post by: d-range on January 03, 2007, 07:56:00 AM
QUOTE(snyder80 @ Jan 3 2007, 01:37 PM)
The MS service team must/or should at least be able to connect to the x360 for diagnostics, right?
What if they use a similar pcb like anonymous did, to run some infosoftware on a repairstation-PC reading the memory from the x360. Similar to a connection where u can flash the old xecutor2 chips via paralelport.
Anonymous maybe found a debug-thing in konkong and DID tell the x360 to turn into debug/devkit/analyse mode where u can send data to the x360 wich are daisychained to the AVoutput.
Im a noob in hacking so in short:
He needed the Laptop to get some kind of bufferoverflow/debug mode on the x360 via the pcb from the laptop and sent the OSx/linux video from the laptop to the AVoutput of his x360...
What if they use a similar pcb like anonymous did, to run some infosoftware on a repairstation-PC reading the memory from the x360. Similar to a connection where u can flash the old xecutor2 chips via paralelport.
Anonymous maybe found a debug-thing in konkong and DID tell the x360 to turn into debug/devkit/analyse mode where u can send data to the x360 wich are daisychained to the AVoutput.
Im a noob in hacking so in short:
He needed the Laptop to get some kind of bufferoverflow/debug mode on the x360 via the pcb from the laptop and sent the OSx/linux video from the laptop to the AVoutput of his x360...
Quite possible, except the 'daisy-chained to the AV output' part... There's definitely some custom code running on the 360, the image is not coming from his laptop.
If I'd have to take a guess, I think a combination of 2 things might have happened. 1) Someone found a way to disable/trick the hypervisor to disable memory monitoring and mandatory encryption of executable code. This would be the part of the hack working through the debug port he's accessing with his laptop. 2) A shader exploit was written which overwrites some memory used by the King-Kong demo with the screensaver thingy. This only works with the hypervisor disabled. The modified shader is already on the King-Kong disc he's booting.
When the King-Kong disc has booted to the menu he sends the required bootstrap commands to the debug port, which disables the hypervisor and maybe forces the CPU to a specific part of the KK executable. From there the exploited shader is invoked which overwrites some unused part of main memory with his 'screensaver'. Last but not least the CPU is instructed to jump to the unsigned screensaver code. Of course this is just speculation... Maybe the hack doesn't even use a shader and he just uploads executable code directly through the USB interface... But then I cannot explain what the KK disc is used for...
Either way, I'm getting more and more convinced this might be real... It's going to be interesting times for sure. The big question is: if it's real. will the hole be plugged before the new 360 models are ready? I think if MS knows about the nature of this breach it would be pretty easy to just make the required changes to the new 60nm CPU design that's coming... Or just blow the debug interfaces completely after manufacturing...
Post by: ben1989 on January 03, 2007, 09:17:00 AM
QUOTE
The DLP-TxRx-G USB to serial adapter is designed to easily connect a microcontroller/DSP/FPGA/etc. to a host PC or upgrade a legacy RS232 device to USB with minimal design effort.
* Connection to host PC/Mac made via mini USB connector
* As few as 2 wire serial interface (Tx, Rx and ground) - This Has Got Me Thinking
* Standard Baud rates from 300 to 921600 Baud
* Support for non-standard Baud rates
* Open-collector output available for resetting microcontroller under software control (DTR)
* Input provided for user-selectable interface voltage
* Red and green LEDs to indicate transmit and receive activity
The DLP-TxRx-G now uses the new FT232RL chip and is supplied as a lead free RoHS compliant module.
Single Module
Price : £15.75
Availability : In stock
* Connection to host PC/Mac made via mini USB connector
* As few as 2 wire serial interface (Tx, Rx and ground) - This Has Got Me Thinking
* Standard Baud rates from 300 to 921600 Baud
* Support for non-standard Baud rates
* Open-collector output available for resetting microcontroller under software control (DTR)
* Input provided for user-selectable interface voltage
* Red and green LEDs to indicate transmit and receive activity
The DLP-TxRx-G now uses the new FT232RL chip and is supplied as a lead free RoHS compliant module.
Single Module
Price : £15.75
Availability : In stock
Post by: Drunkn_Munky on January 03, 2007, 10:00:00 AM
QUOTE(ben1989 @ Jan 3 2007, 06:24 PM)
that curcit is infact a DLP-TXRX-G USB / SERIAL ADAPTER
ivc i borrowed ur pic
i also found a shop here in the uk
Nice find. They look pretty similar, but not identical. But that just may be the picture quality. Is this the jtag thing that people were mentioning?
Post by: ben1989 on January 03, 2007, 10:06:00 AM
USB to serial adapter is designed to easily connect a microcontroller/DSP/FPGA/etc
Post by: frostedflakes on January 03, 2007, 10:51:00 AM
QUOTE(Drunkn_Munky @ Jan 3 2007, 06:07 PM)
Nice find. They look pretty similar, but not identical. But that just may be the picture quality. Is this the jtag thing that people were mentioning?
Probably because they are made by different manufacturers. Same basic design and component layout, though.
Post by: Nubbs on January 03, 2007, 11:05:00 AM
Post by: [email protected] on January 03, 2007, 11:30:00 AM
Post by: ben1989 on January 03, 2007, 03:32:00 PM
QUOTE(P8ntBal2Xtreme @ Jan 4 2007, 12:29 AM)
Ben do u kno when anything will be released since u seem like u kno everything about htis.
yes but i carnt say otherwise i would
Post by: ben1989 on January 03, 2007, 03:36:00 PM
Post by: P8ntBal2Xtreme on January 03, 2007, 03:37:00 PM
Will this def. be public
Do u have to use the king kong game.
Post by: jcdenton2003 on January 03, 2007, 04:34:00 PM
Jcd
Post by: .:Dino:. on January 03, 2007, 05:21:00 PM
QUOTE
The DLP-TxRx-G USB to serial adapter is designed to easily connect a microcontroller/DSP/FPGA/etc. to a host PC or upgrade a legacy RS232 device to USB with minimal design effort.
* Connection to host PC/Mac made via mini USB connector
* As few as 2 wire serial interface (Tx, Rx and ground) - This Has Got Me Thinking
* Standard Baud rates from 300 to 921600 Baud
* Support for non-standard Baud rates
* Open-collector output available for resetting microcontroller under software control (DTR)
* Input provided for user-selectable interface voltage
* Red and green LEDs to indicate transmit and receive activity
The DLP-TxRx-G now uses the new FT232RL chip and is supplied as a lead free RoHS compliant module.
Single Module
Price : £15.75
Availability : In stock
Ooo i see this was posted on xboxhacker forums by someone called ben_stringer. What a coinsedence he has the same name and same post, now i wonder if he has anything to do with this anonymous 360 hacker.
QUOTE
his laptop to the pcb and then pcb to mobo
i dont know lol
Seems not...
Post by: HoRnEyDvL on January 03, 2007, 06:09:00 PM
Post by: aholmes187 on January 03, 2007, 06:22:00 PM
whenever there is some type of news on the 360 being hacked, it always seems that we have a member that is "in the know" now thats kinda funny
Post by: HoRnEyDvL on January 03, 2007, 08:16:00 PM
Please guys this is not a place about mac os on wii or D*** Sucking while running Mac Os.
Keep on topic.
Post by: Fragreaver on January 03, 2007, 09:44:00 PM
Post by: Novocain on January 04, 2007, 01:06:00 AM
QUOTE(censor @ Jan 3 2007, 02:59 PM)
when will you guys finally understand that this is NOT presented by the CCC! it's NOT an official CCC lecture, just some sort of soapbox for everybody - held at an CCC event.
If somebody from M$ showed up there and would have showcased Windows Vista, you wouldn't say that the CCC wrote a new Operating System, or do you?
Sorry when i have written this post i havent have read this post (it was later on when i have read it) where it was written that this was NOT a official CCC lecture
Post by: snyder80 on January 04, 2007, 03:48:00 AM
Well according to what i posted before in this thread, some questions to the non-noobs in hacking/electrics:
1: Do retail x360 still need/have some jtag(?) repair-service connection on the mobo?
2: If they do (probably they have: http://forums.xbox-s...owtopic=468242) the exact connection points are still unknown?
3: if they were known, could u use that tiny pcb, 4wires at the right places from the pcb and maybe do a TRST (Test ReSeT) for emulating/rebuilding a M$ service-remote?
4: Could this set the hypervisor into a sleep-mode aka. OFF?
5: Would only EX-M$ in x360 department know the exact connection spots?
6: Would you mask yourself if you were an EX-M$ showing some breaking news in x360 hacking?
7: Would you still need that kingkong (demo?) game? - NO, you wouldnt and this is where i recon my post is wrong!!
Post by: nickolasj80 on January 04, 2007, 04:09:00 AM
QUOTE(snyder80 @ Jan 4 2007, 04:55 AM)
1: Do retail x360 still need/have some jtag(?) repair-service connection on the mobo?
Almost definately. When they get returns for warranty repairs, I'm sure they use them. It would be hard to believe, if there is a problem on the board or with hardcode, they just swap out for a new one.
Post by: Drunkn_Munky on January 04, 2007, 08:17:00 AM
QUOTE(jcdenton2003 @ Jan 4 2007, 01:41 AM)
Everyone run out and buy king kong lol!
Retail won't work. I'm afraid we're forced to pirate it
At least King Kong may not be the worst game ever any more.QUOTE
6: Would you mask yourself if you were an EX-M$ showing some breaking news in x360 hacking?
Who said anything about ex-ms? You would be more inclined to mask yourself if you still worked for MS. Unless he's protecting his identity for legal reasons... or he could be Bill himself.
Post by: jabroniekilla on January 04, 2007, 08:18:00 AM
I am not a computer genius so I am sure there are a lot of things that "could" be going on in that video. I just want to say I will believe it when I see it. When I see some of the members on here with proof of it working, I will then believe it.
Post by: x-s on January 04, 2007, 08:39:00 AM
QUOTE(snyder80 @ Jan 4 2007, 12:55 PM)
Just some thoughts and speculations:
Well according to what i posted before in this thread, some questions to the non-noobs in hacking/electrics:
1: Do retail x360 still need/have some jtag(?) repair-service connection on the mobo?
2: If they do (probably they have: http://forums.xbox-s...owtopic=468242) the exact connection points are still unknown?
3: if they were known, could u use that tiny pcb, 4wires at the right places from the pcb and maybe do a TRST (Test ReSeT) for emulating/rebuilding a M$ service-remote?
4: Could this set the hypervisor into a sleep-mode aka. OFF?
5: Would only EX-M$ in x360 department know the exact connection spots?
6: Would you mask yourself if you were an EX-M$ showing some breaking news in x360 hacking?
7: Would you still need that kingkong (demo?) game? - NO, you wouldnt and this is where i recon my post is wrong!!
J8C1
CPU JTAG Header
J9A2
XDK DC Power
J2B1
XDK Debug Header
J1D2
XDK Debug Header #2
J2D1
Southbridge Header
J2D2
GPU Header
J5C2
GPU SPI EEPROM Header
J5C1
ANA Header
Post by: Lamer123 on January 04, 2007, 09:30:00 AM
You would have to burn your own King Kong disc with modified shader code and have a firmware flash to boot the code.
I dont think we will see any 007 style softmodding until the core security of the 360 is broken and they can investigate hardware and software flaws in more depth.
Post by: gothi on January 04, 2007, 03:04:00 PM
QUOTE(microsnakey @ Jan 4 2007, 07:31 PM)
A Month I cant wait that long.
I want it now
Ben's about as likely to know as much about when info is going to be released as my toaster.
Just because someone says they know something doesn't mean they do and lets face it, a week to a month is a pretty wide guess that anyone, even a 7 year old, could make without any knowledge of the subject at hand.
If there's more info to be released it'll be released when that person is ready and not before. And most certainly not when some random on a forum says so.
btw, my toaster says 'Warning, may get hot' which I have interpreted as meaning 'more hot info in about a month or so'
Post by: jcdenton2003 on January 04, 2007, 04:19:00 PM
Post by: vax11780 on January 04, 2007, 09:33:00 PM
QUOTE(snyder80 @ Jan 4 2007, 03:55 AM)
Just some thoughts and speculations:
Well according to what i posted before in this thread, some questions to the non-noobs in hacking/electrics:
1: Do retail x360 still need/have some jtag(?) repair-service connection on the mobo?
Yes. JTAG is used for many different things including chip testing, board testing, and in-circuit emulation. The in-circuit emulation may be disabled by an eFuse to prevent security breaches. Board testing isn't very useful in attacking a system, but the chip testing is. Think of every storage element (flip-flop) in the chip connected as a huge shift register that you could load with whatever values you want. Properly timed you can change the result of a comparison (calculated key == stored key?)
QUOTE
2: If they do (probably they have: http://forums.xbox-s...owtopic=468242) the exact connection points are still unknown?
3: if they were known, could u use that tiny pcb, 4wires at the right places from the pcb and maybe do a TRST (Test ReSeT) for emulating/rebuilding a M$ service-remote?
Yes.
QUOTE
4: Could this set the hypervisor into a sleep-mode aka. OFF?
No. The hypervisor is a fundamental building block that everything in the system is built on top of. If you remove the hypervisor you can't access the disk, video, dvd, etc. What needs to be done is convince the hypervisor the XEX file it just loaded has a valid signature. From then on the XEX will run as normal and can show pretty pictures on the screen.
QUOTE
5: Would only EX-M$ in x360 department know the exact connection spots?
No. Draw a schematic of the various chip interconnects, and test each one in turn until you find a TAP controller. I've got the IEEE JTAG spec around here somewhere, but a few minutes in the IEEE webstore would give the number of the spec to buy. Assuming they didn't disguise the JTAG port.
QUOTE
6: Would you mask yourself if you were an EX-M$ showing some breaking news in x360 hacking?
There are so many levels of pain MS could apply to an ex-employee nobody would be stupid enough to pull a stunt like that no matter how good the disguise was. Get three buddies to cover their faces and put hoodies on then walk around a bit. I'd lay odds you could tell the apart from the way they walk and gesture.
Somebody knows who Hoodie is, but probably are in on the show (or scam?) and haven't squealed yet.
QUOTE
7: Would you still need that kingkong (demo?) game? - NO, you wouldnt and this is where i recon my post is wrong!!
I haven't seen the game. Can anyone tell from the startup screens if it is the demo or the full game?
VAX
Post by: Textbook on January 05, 2007, 12:38:00 AM
QUOTE(djboo @ Jan 4 2007, 10:38 AM)
if anyone knows exactly what went on, i bet its this gal:
b9punk
it makes sense that shes the girl helping him - the piccy looks a little different, but thats probably just coz shes got the myspace angles.
Good idea. I know.. it's a long stretch , but it may be worth it.
Google "b9punk" .. first result is .. http://www.jennifergergen.com
Same person? Let's see ...
Google "jennifer gergen lightning talks" .. bingo!
Scroll to the bottom, under coordination, you see "Jennifer "b9punk" Gergen"
You have her site, on which she lists her resume, her location, how to contact her, etc..
She lives in Brooklyn, NY.
Post by: Drunkn_Munky on January 05, 2007, 08:20:00 AM
QUOTE(vax11780 @ Jan 5 2007, 06:40 AM)
There are so many levels of pain MS could apply to an ex-employee nobody would be stupid enough to pull a stunt like that no matter how good the disguise was. Get three buddies to cover their faces and put hoodies on then walk around a bit. I'd lay odds you could tell the apart from the way they walk and gesture.
Somebody knows who Hoodie is, but probably are in on the show (or scam?) and haven't squealed yet.
I haven't seen the game. Can anyone tell from the startup screens if it is the demo or the full game?
VAX
Somebody knows who Hoodie is, but probably are in on the show (or scam?) and haven't squealed yet.
I haven't seen the game. Can anyone tell from the startup screens if it is the demo or the full game?
VAX
You're right (just like you can often identify who people are from a long way away) but Microsoft is a huge company and it would be very hard/risky for them to do anything without proof.
Thanks for the answers, very helpful.
As for the demo vs game, I have the game and the load up screen is pretty much the same, but I'm going off memory.
Post by: willy134uk on January 05, 2007, 10:19:00 AM
Post by: OpticNurv on January 05, 2007, 11:32:00 AM
Post by: Zeze21 on January 05, 2007, 03:53:00 PM
QUOTE(willy134uk @ Jan 5 2007, 07:26 PM)
he could of modified the king kong game to switch at the menu to a bounching screen saver or between the the king kong menu and the linux logo he did a lot of messing behind the 360 he could of unpluged the aux plugs and put them into something else already displaying the bouncing screen saver who knows lets hope its all genuin
this forum would be perfect if people would start reading before posting...
Post by: yivkX360 on January 05, 2007, 04:02:00 PM
Post by: ben1989 on January 06, 2007, 04:07:00 AM
Post by: FrEaKsHoW12390 on January 06, 2007, 04:53:00 AM
Post by: xboxex on January 06, 2007, 05:32:00 AM
he was using the pcb to get linux ti the xbox using tftp
its like when you reinstall windows over the network!
>
Interesting. Is it your guess or do you know it for sure ?
Post by: ben1989 on January 06, 2007, 06:24:00 AM
Post by: FrEaKsHoW12390 on January 06, 2007, 10:14:00 AM
Post by: vax11780 on January 06, 2007, 05:26:00 PM
Too bad she didn't see how the laptop was connected to the 360.
VAX
Post by: aholmes187 on January 07, 2007, 12:09:00 AM
Post by: xboxex on January 07, 2007, 07:43:00 AM
http://video.google....466415261963713
retail video:
http://video.google....594010189558875
Post by: nickolasj80 on January 07, 2007, 09:05:00 AM
maybe he using a pc to emulate/alter part of the boot process. It (or was) a common method of hacking dish network, was to run a PC which emulated the smartcard, perhaps this is something along those lines?
Post by: garyd123 on January 07, 2007, 06:34:00 PM
QUOTE(ben1989 @ Jan 6 2007, 09:14 PM)
he was using the pcb to get linux ti the xbox using tftp its like when you reinstall windows over the network!
Riiiiight. Do you understand what TFTP is?
Post by: jcdenton2003 on January 07, 2007, 07:05:00 PM
Post by: Fragreaver on January 07, 2007, 07:52:00 PM
Even through VMware, qemu or something like that it would suck, I think.
Post by: aholmes187 on January 07, 2007, 09:36:00 PM
QUOTE(jcdenton2003 @ Jan 7 2007, 09:12 PM)
I was thinking the same thing lol! So basicly to round everything up so far.. Hes using a flashdrive (thats the pcb on top) and hes hooked his laptop up to the usb on the 360?
err not a flash drive, its another usb input to jtag adapteror something.....theres pictures and places to find it earlier in the thread. and all you can see on the blown up video is a cable in his hand on the top of the laptop screen, he sits down, and plugs the mystery cable into something off the top of the 360, where the hdd should be, but i think the video shows him connecting to the little usb pcb thing because there is nothing else to plug in to there, and hes NOT plugging something into the hdd connector
Post by: Sinner666 on January 08, 2007, 08:02:00 AM
QUOTE(thingonaspring @ Jan 8 2007, 07:00 AM)
The CCC site claims that a linux kernel is booting.
Do they? Where?
I thought the thread had reached the conclusion that the person in question was not officially affiliated with CCC, only presenting at their conferance.
Post by: TrailerUK on January 08, 2007, 09:36:00 AM
QUOTE(ben1989 @ Jan 8 2007, 05:42 PM)
Trivial File Transfer Protocol
Anyone can google TFTP and get that, youve yet to proven you have a clue about anything in this topic ben......everyone just regards u as the 17year old topic attention seeker.....
Prove Us Wrong.....thats all i say.
You even failed to have a response to the posts where u said you would be laughing at us while running linux...
Post by: xboxex on January 08, 2007, 09:59:00 AM
You explanation makes perfect sense, thanks
Regarding the unsigned shaders:
The KK game uses a xeshaders.bin that looks as a compiled set of HLSL files. How could Mr. Anonymous modify it ? How to get a shaders compiler for the xbox ?
Post by: thingonaspring on January 08, 2007, 10:01:00 AM
QUOTE(Sinner666 @ Jan 8 2007, 05:09 PM)
Do they? Where?
Fair point. To clear that up, the CCC site states "a linux kernel is already booting", but those are most likely the words of Mr Anonymous, as opposed to the CCC themselves.
Post by: thingonaspring on January 08, 2007, 10:33:00 AM
QUOTE(xboxex @ Jan 8 2007, 07:06 PM)
The KK game uses a xeshaders.bin that looks as a compiled set of HLSL files. How could Mr. Anonymous modify it ? How to get a shaders compiler for the xbox ?
To be honest I know almost nothing about how a compiled set of shaders comes into being - or even whether the supposed exploit really uses valid shader code.
If the hack turns out to be real, it will be entertaining to see how that part was achieved. I suspect it would be a lot more complicated than a simple buffer overflow though.
Post by: ben1989 on January 09, 2007, 02:30:00 PM
Post by: ploggy on January 09, 2007, 04:17:00 PM
QUOTE(ben1989 @ Jan 9 2007, 09:37 PM)
well all will be reviled soon
How soon is soon ??
Post by: xboxex on January 09, 2007, 09:59:00 PM
> well all will be reviled soon
Maybe Mr. Anonymous was waiting for the next dashboard and kernel upgrade (yesterday M$ published new ones) and now knowing that the hack keeps working, he is ready to talk about it ?
Hopefully Mr. Anonymous start sharing info soon
Post by: kaigoh on January 10, 2007, 02:34:00 AM
You seem to "know" alot, so I wanted to ask you a couple of questions.
1) What credentials do you have to prove you may be in on this hack?
2) If no credentials, then why would Mr. A bring you in on it?
As has already been pointed out, any nob can say "All will be reveeled soon". Why would you want to lie and
Give us some genuine information, prove yourself or stop posting crap.
</rant>
kaigoh
Post by: Keshire on January 10, 2007, 03:11:00 AM
QUOTE(kaigoh @ Jan 10 2007, 03:41 AM)
ben1989,
You seem to "know" alot, so I wanted to ask you a couple of questions.
1) What credentials do you have to prove you may be in on this hack?
2) If no credentials, then why would Mr. A bring you in on it?
As has already been pointed out, any nob can say "All will be reveeled soon". Why would you want to lie and
Give us some genuine information, prove yourself or stop posting crap.
</rant>
kaigoh
Ie. Put up or Shut up. It's getting tiresome.
Post by: PC_Arcade on January 10, 2007, 08:49:00 AM
QUOTE(ben1989 @ Jan 9 2007, 09:37 PM)
well all will be reviled soon
Note the use of the word "Reviled" as opposed to Revealed
QUOTE
revile
verb {T} FORMAL
to criticize someone strongly, or say unpleasant things to or about someone
verb {T} FORMAL
to criticize someone strongly, or say unpleasant things to or about someone
Post by: aholmes187 on January 10, 2007, 03:07:00 PM
first of all your spelling everywhere is horrible. and ben you shouldent mess with people over the internet.
EDIT: ben you should be glad i had the reserve to not post that picture of your dumb @ss you had on your site
i removed the 3 things i found out about ben, because the guy below me choose to cry about it. which means others will cry about it. which would probably result in a ban, and ben you aint worth a penny....much less a ban
Post by: aholmes187 on January 10, 2007, 03:22:00 PM
The internet is a large place, but with google....it gets so much smaller. there is no privacy on the internet.....unless you use different handles/screennames. you really shouldent post anything you wouldent want others to see
Post by: Keshire on January 10, 2007, 03:43:00 PM
QUOTE(Cpas @ Jan 10 2007, 04:21 PM)
I really see nothing interesting in your message aholmes187, and dont understand why you post this here.
Maybe ben is a liar, but i dont think it give you the right to investigate on is life and post crap like this here ...
He put himself out there as a mysterious character who knows all. It's just natural to attack his credibility and character. He would have brought it on himself. Don't like it? Stay low key.
Post by: TrailerUK on January 10, 2007, 04:07:00 PM
QUOTE(aholmes187 @ Jan 11 2007, 12:14 AM)
hi there ben, you seem to google stuff alot......so i googled you
first of all your spelling everywhere is horrible. and ben you shouldent mess with people over the internet.
EDIT: ben you should be glad i had the reserve to not post that picture of your dumb @ss you had on your site
i removed the 3 things i found out about ben, because the guy below me choose to cry about it. which means others will cry about it. which would probably result in a ban, and ben you aint worth a penny....much less a ban
HAHA, that was comedy....i took your advice and googled him myself...seems he likes his chatrooms, i wonder if thats where he comes up with these insane ideas.
Post by: HoRnEyDvL on January 10, 2007, 09:03:00 PM