Post by: Xbox-Scene on November 11, 2007, 10:42:00 PM
Sound Advice: HD DVD leaves Blu-ray in the dust Posted by XanTium | November 12 00:06 EST | News Category: Xbox360 |
| From Don Lindich (national columnist and creator of the "Digital Made Easy" book serie) on post-gazette.com: Quote
Full Story: post-gazette.com |
Post by: mlapaglia on November 11, 2007, 10:18:00 PM
lol, i like hd-dvd better, but i wasn't aware that blu-ray was having a lot of problems?
Post by: mlmadmax on November 11, 2007, 10:20:00 PM
I am just sayin havin to pay twice as much for the same thing is lame.
Post by: SuperStition on November 11, 2007, 10:25:00 PM
Post by: yourM0M on November 11, 2007, 10:40:00 PM
Post by: Ddude723 on November 11, 2007, 10:51:00 PM
Post by: dvsone on November 11, 2007, 11:21:00 PM
This post has been edited by dvsone: Nov 12 2007, 07:23 AM
Post by: trey85stang on November 11, 2007, 11:45:00 PM
QUOTE(yourM0M @ Nov 12 2007, 06:40 AM) 
the budget players will continue to sell out through christmas and that will squash the once large hardware advantage of blu-ray thanks solely to the ps3....then come next spring we will really see who signs exclusitivity deals
yup, people will buy HDDVD then wonder WTF all the good movies are only coming out on BRD.
Post by: h3xagram on November 11, 2007, 11:42:00 PM
QUOTE(dvsone @ Nov 11 2007, 10:21 PM) 
Hopefully Toshiba wont act like the Blu-Ray camp and claim victory before they're a clear winner.
Toshiba declined comment when questioned about the $99 player... They aren't arrogant like Sony.
http://www.videobusi.../CA6498141.html
Post by: Method2kh on November 12, 2007, 12:19:00 AM
Post by: xrothgarx on November 12, 2007, 12:23:00 AM
All I want to say is HD-DVD is to DVD like halo 3 was to halo 2. Good, but not that big of a step up.
oh and
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/11/09/niels...nding-november/
I will be getting my PS3, and watching blu-ray movies on it, in a couple weeks.
Post by: metalcoat on November 12, 2007, 12:18:00 AM
Afterdawn News
Engadget source
Post by: erexx on November 12, 2007, 01:13:00 AM
Its egotistical, self centered and arrogant.
BRD vs. HDDVD = EQUAL
Post by: faithlesssoul on November 12, 2007, 12:57:00 AM
QUOTE(erexx @ Nov 12 2007, 04:13 AM)
Piss on this my format is better than yours.
Its egotistical, self centered and arrogant.
BRD vs. HDDVD = EQUAL
thats what i am talking about
Post by: 88 Ecko Unltd 88 on November 12, 2007, 01:34:00 AM
Post by: TheRat on November 12, 2007, 01:42:00 AM
that plays all formats HD & BR.. its about $1500 at the mo.. but wait and your have both from one that does it all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/hddiscplayers/307lgblue/
This post has been edited by TheRat: Nov 12 2007, 09:42 AM
Post by: Jezz_X on November 12, 2007, 02:10:00 AM
Post by: Chancer on November 12, 2007, 02:16:00 AM
QUOTE
Why pay twice the money when Blu-ray has serious issues and the movies look and sound the same?
Because of the catalogue of titles at the moment.
Another example of someone getting paid a fortune for sharing his "Who gives a shit " opinion.
I take more heed of the people on here who post opinion for free.
FWIW Stacks are giving away BR players with purchase of the 50 and 42 inch Plasmas they have on offer.
This post has been edited by Chancer: Nov 12 2007, 10:17 AM
Post by: dvsone on November 12, 2007, 02:20:00 AM
Post by: seuden on November 12, 2007, 02:57:00 AM
QUOTE(dvsone @ Nov 12 2007, 09:20 AM)
Actually people don't buy Blu-Ray players. They buy game systems that happen to include a Blu-Ray player. If the PS3 didn't have a Blu-Ray player in it, the format would be dead by now. End of story.
Agreed.
Post by: Slag Bag on November 12, 2007, 02:59:00 AM
Post by: Martinchris23 on November 12, 2007, 03:55:00 AM
Fully spec'd dual format players FTW!
Post by: MartinC on November 12, 2007, 04:24:00 AM
This guy is a puppet.
Post by: Retell on November 12, 2007, 04:42:00 AM
QUOTE(MartinC @ Nov 12 2007, 12:24 PM)
Blu-ray's hard-coating or it's more data per layer wasn't mentioned for some strange reason? Mhhhhh...
This guy is a puppet.
This guy doesn't mention any numbers or facts, what kind of audio BD supports that HDDVD doesn't. He is a simple stooge paid off by the HDDVD lobbyists (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Post by: proger on November 12, 2007, 06:10:00 AM
I don't get why you would like to watch most movies in high-def anyway. Almost all recent movies are boring and repetitive.
Post by: Chancer on November 12, 2007, 05:57:00 AM
QUOTE(dvsone @ Nov 12 2007, 09:20 AM)
Actually people don't buy Blu-Ray players. They buy game systems that happen to include a Blu-Ray player. If the PS3 didn't have a Blu-Ray player in it, the format would be dead by now. End of story.
You ought to be one of these Analysts
Actually not many people by either as standalone players. HD-DVD was no different until the price drop on the clearance Toshiba lines.
You can quote if this and if that forever.
If there had not been a buy off of a major film studio, if Toshiba had not decided to sell discontinued players at a loss etc.
Fact is every factor is just another long ball in what will be a long game.
Post by: Andronicus on November 12, 2007, 06:09:00 AM
QUOTE(proger @ Nov 12 2007, 02:10 PM)
Bleh, this format war is getting annoying.
I don't get why you would like to watch most movies in high-def anyway. Almost all recent movies are boring and repetitive.
Amen to that. I would like to see "Sunshin" in Hi-Def.
Ever since the first duel format player was anounced about a year ago, I have been predicting that the war is acctualy over. Soon everyone will have duel format players (remember DVD+r and DVD-R, no one even remebers what that was about).
Post by: iceman72 on November 12, 2007, 06:55:00 AM
Post by: Obveron on November 12, 2007, 07:08:00 AM
QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ Nov 12 2007, 11:55 AM)
Fully spec'd dual format players FTW!
Agreed, the only problem is that these players will always cost more since they need to pay licensing fees to both camps. Consumers still lose.
Post by: dvsone on November 12, 2007, 08:07:00 AM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 12 2007, 02:33 PM)
You ought to be one of these Analysts
Actually not many people by either as standalone players. HD-DVD was no different until the price drop on the clearance Toshiba lines.
You can quote if this and if that forever.
If there had not been a buy off of a major film studio, if Toshiba had not decided to sell discontinued players at a loss etc.
Fact is every factor is just another long ball in what will be a long game.
And last thing. You talk about Toshiba discontinuing players at a loss, well how many of those $1000 Blu-Ray players still have that price tag on them? The PS3 has also had it's fair share of price cuts. Toshiba could be losing less money on it's player then Sony is.
Post by: Chancer on February 02, 2020, 04:10:00 PM
QUOTE
The PS3 is helping Blu-Ray build it's install base because it offers more value for money than a $400-$500 standalone player does to the average Joe.
And why is that an issue?
I agree with you the PS3 is a great BR player and it adds in a games machine WiFi and other stuff. It doesn't make it wrong that people purchase it to play Blu-Ray discs on it. It also doesn't make it null and void when adding up the figures for BR Players. Makes perfect sense if you are in the market for it. You can't turn round and say the PS3 is not to be counted as a BR player because the fact remains it is
QUOTE
If you take the PS3 out of the install base and remove all the disc sales from PS3 owners, you basically left with expensive standalone players and miserable disc sales.
The same could be said for the HD-DVD 360 add on. Up until Toshiba sold off the HD-DVD players, the very same players were also expensive.
QUOTE
And last thing. You talk about Toshiba discontinuing players at a loss, well how many of those $1000 Blu-Ray players still have that price tag on them? The PS3 has also had it's fair share of price cuts. Toshiba could be losing less money on it's player then Sony is.
You totally missed the point. I don't care which of them makes a loss. The point is the ultra cheap Toshiba was not a specific model design to fit the price point, merely Toshiba clearing the decks.
The Funai BR player is due on to the market, so I still believe the "Format War" is a long standing battle yet.
Post by: 0794 on November 12, 2007, 03:40:00 PM
HD-DVD and Blu-Ray to me (and the general consumer population) are both losers - compare the facts of previous adoption-rate of newer-generation audio/video formats and you will see just how slow consumers are to adopt these new optical HD formats...
optical-disc formats are very old-gen and the newer on-demand digital HD content will easily take over - especially since the consumers as a whole are price-driven...
Post by: Ranger72 on November 12, 2007, 04:00:00 PM
But in the end the kids will decide. No Disney or Pixar movie will ever be on HD-DVD. Parents will buy the player with the movies their kids want to watch.
For me I am a happy owner of both players and just ordered the Bourne movies for HD-DVD and Independence Day for Blu-Ray.
Post by: Bubbalynch on February 02, 2020, 05:56:00 PM
QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ Nov 12 2007, 11:55 AM) 
As it stands, the movie studios will decide which one 'wins' purely by restricting their releases to one format.
So true. That really does say it all.
Post by: dvsone on November 12, 2007, 05:35:00 PM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 13 2007, 12:10 AM)
And why is that an issue?
I agree with you the PS3 is a great BR player and it adds in a games machine WiFi and other stuff. It doesn't make it wrong that people purchase it to play Blu-Ray discs on it. It also doesn't make it null and void when adding up the figures for BR Players. Makes perfect sense if you are in the market for it. You can't turn round and say the PS3 is not to be counted as a BR player because the fact remains it is
The same could be said for the HD-DVD 360 add on. Up until Toshiba sold off the HD-DVD players, the very same players were also expensive.
You totally missed the point. I don't care which of them makes a loss. The point is the ultra cheap Toshiba was not a specific model design to fit the price point, merely Toshiba clearing the decks.
The Funai BR player is due on to the market, so I still believe the "Format War" is a long standing battle yet.
Post by: Martinchris23 on November 12, 2007, 05:39:00 PM
QUOTE(dvsone @ Nov 13 2007, 01:11 AM)
I never said it was an issue. However for a non gamers, HD DVD is a lot more attractive than Blu-Ray. And you can't straight count PS3's in the Blu-Ray install base. PS3 owners want to spend their money on gaming. The Blu-Ray player in the PS3 is going to be a fad for most PS3 owners.
I don't know if you can make that kind of assumption without looking at a demographic. I've seen many a post by people who bought the PS3 purely for it's Blu-Ray player - at the time, it was the cheapest around. It also looks as if they have had the last laugh, since a lot of launch players won't be compatible with the new standards!
Post by: s2h on February 02, 2020, 06:32:00 PM
According to this weeks Nielsen VideoScan numbers Blu-ray took the lion's share of the HD movie sales again this week with a 71% to 29% split (2.45:1). It appears that the Transformers' effect wasn't enough to hold off Spidey 3, despite the disappointing sales. What's really interesting is that there is only one HD DVD title in the top ten this week, and to add insult to injury, four of the top ten titles are also available on HD DVD, but didn't sell well enough to make the list.
1. Spider-Man 3 BD 100.00
2. Spider-Man: The High Definition Trilogy BD 71.95
3. Transformers HD 31.42
4. Meet the Robinsons BD 8.82
5. 300 BD 6.56
6. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer BD 5.03
7. License to Wed BD 4.24
8. The Shining BD 4.11
9. Mr. Brooks BD 4.03
10. 2001: A Space Odyssey BD 3.88
Discuss
Post by: jesterrace777 on November 12, 2007, 06:17:00 PM
QUOTE(iceman72 @ Nov 12 2007, 02:55 PM)
Well dont get me wrong. I do love my HD-DVD addon drive for my 360. But my problem is the movies that come out are like 4 to 1. Also the BR movies are usually $10+ bucks cheaper. So i think right now the cost is almost the same. You can get a BR player for $499 and the movies are like $20 bucks. Then you can get a HD player for $99 - $200 but the damn movies are $30+. So after you buy 10 or so movies you are at the price of a BR player. Unfortunately it will take you a year to buy 10 or so HD movies because Sony Entertainment owns damn near every studio out there and all the good movies come out on BR. Now that Disney drops movies on BR that really sucks. But at the same time, I love the fact that the HD player makes my old movies look very very nice. So I am hoping that when the movie makers see that everyone is buying all these HD players they will start putting more movies on HD and not BR. Also it really sucks that the cheapest BR player is a PS3. So for those that want a BR player for less than $500 a PS3 is lookin good. I plan on getting one just for the movies, now thats sad. I really dont see any games that I want at all. Go figure.
You are definitely shopping in the wrong place. Right on the front page for this site is an add for deepdiscountdvd. http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com. Enter in the promotional code: DEAL and get an additional 20% off. I have Transformers AND 2001: A Space Odyssey on HD-DVD in my cart right now getting ready to be shipped to my door for less than $39 for BOTH. The point is that if you are a smart shopper you can easily find both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD titles for reasonable prices.
Post by: 88 Ecko Unltd 88 on November 12, 2007, 06:20:00 PM
Post by: snsr on February 02, 2020, 06:59:00 PM
BluRay discs are more durable and hold a significantly larger amount of data on a single layer, period.
Post by: chelfy on November 12, 2007, 06:34:00 PM
Sony Blu-Ray has an advantage in that they have more exclusive movies right now, which is because they own Sony Studios, Columbia Pictures, and they are affiliated with Disney. I'm sure they own more too.
HD-DVD, IMO, HAS A BETTER CHANCE TO WIN BASED ON TWO VERY ELEMENTARY THINGS.
1.) The branding.
The name HD-DVD makes sense to a larger audience, it just sounds right, like the next step in DVD. Put yourself in your grandparents shoes, they are just getting used to the DVD player they got for xmas, what is Blu-Ray?
2.) The price.
If HD-DVD continues to offer players at a price of $99, such as the HD-A2, I believe the sales of players will increase the demand by consumers for more titles on HD-DVD will result in more studios releasing on HD-DVD. Studios care about profit.
Nevermind the small tech specs, such as audio format, decoders, disc storage capacity; they are very similar formats and the tech stuff isn't going to be the deciding factor.
Blu-Ray needs a sub $200 player to compete, even if they are currently wining in disc sales.
Post by: dvsone on November 12, 2007, 06:35:00 PM
QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ Nov 13 2007, 02:15 AM)
I don't know if you can make that kind of assumption without looking at a demographic. I've seen many a post by people who bought the PS3 purely for it's Blu-Ray player - at the time, it was the cheapest around. It also looks as if they have had the last laugh, since a lot of launch players won't be compatible with the new standards!
Gaming is just much better entertainment. I'm sure that's something we all can agree on.
Post by: HotKnife420 on November 12, 2007, 07:52:00 PM
QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ Nov 12 2007, 11:55 AM)
There will never be an outright winner in this war. Blu-Ray is the PS3 proprietary format and there's no way it'll be changed. Too much money has been thrown at HD-DVD to cause it to fail. Just accept that both formats will be around for the duration. As it stands, the movie studios will decide which one 'wins' purely by restricting their releases to one format. Ultimately (and unfortunately) this means the consumer loses.
Fully spec'd dual format players FTW!
Actually, it's very possible to have an 'outright winner' in the next couple years. If the majority of blu-ray camp is PS3's, a publisher will take note of that. People buy game systems to game with, despite what features they come with. If the publisher sees that there is a significant installed base of HD-DVD players, and that majority blu-ray owners are via PS3, then they will choose HD-DVD, as you have to rule that a significant number of people who own a PS3 may not be movie buffs. Perhaps I'm not seeing the whole picture, but I think that only HD-DVD's installed base numbers are accurate, as every HD-DVD player is intended for movie viewing only, wheras a PS3 would be a wild card.
I feel that HD-DVD is a superior technology, but so far the content on the disc is all that matters. Since HD-DVD is more efficient, IMO, I'd like to see it win, and if blu-ray players don't start selling, I don't think a few million PS3s are going to make a significant difference, given the recent affordability of HD-DVD standalones.
Post by: hackthis25 on February 02, 2020, 08:46:00 PM
but as the way technology is, just wait another 6 months to a year and sure as hell the gayray pis3 will come down even more.. i'm waiting till it hits 199.. lol..
hell effin yeah..
Post by: mc_365 on November 12, 2007, 08:16:00 PM
Why would any Sony studio not continue to be bluray exclusive?
It serves to push their hardware, which pushes their Movies.
Other movie studios will not remain HD-DVD exclusive without incentives from someone.
By doing so they limit their potential sales by half.
What's going to be funny, is all the Bluray exclusive that get copied into ch-dvd? or whatever the chinease format is called.
Post by: codecxbox on February 02, 2020, 11:32:00 PM
Really, its time for a new hardware codec/player...
Post by: jesterrace777 on November 12, 2007, 11:34:00 PM
Post by: ITMASTER on February 03, 2020, 12:29:00 AM
BLUE -RAY is winners with closed eyes I don't understant who is the this idiot writing that kind of reviews.
Post by: Chancer on November 13, 2007, 02:03:00 AM
QUOTE(dvsone @ Nov 13 2007, 02:11 AM)
I definitely accept that not everyone fits in the same demographic. But what percentage of PS3 owners do you really think buy it with the intent to use it more as a Blu-Ray player than a gaming machine? The more gaming entertainment the PS3 gets the less movie entertainment will be purchased by PS3 owners.
Gaming is just much better entertainment. I'm sure that's something we all can agree on.
You are still making the same assumption.
Not everyone is a gamer. There is whole world full of people to whom Hi Def movie playback is a huge part of their entertainment. The world does not revolve around gaming. we may like it sure but others will wonder what the hell we see in it. It has been stated so often here in these forums that there are no games for the PS3 at the moment, so why would an out and out gamer buy a PS3. Are you now saying that people do buy it for games alone?
If what you were saying was true, then MS need not have bothered with the HD-DVD add on because not many people will buy movies for it because of the games available? That has not proved the case has it?
Post by: erexx on February 03, 2020, 03:30:00 AM
BRD: 25GB / 50GB
HDDVD: 15GB / 30GB
If the image quality is bad its becuase the studio chose to encode the movie poorly.
Both support:
Video: MPEG-2, H.264 and VC-1
Audio: DD AC3, DTS, PCM and Dolby TrueHD
Image and sound quality are directly affected by the codec and bit rate used and ultimately the amount of storage space available.
MPEG-2 is superior.
A 2 hour film takes up about 25GB of space.
Include PCM Audio and this easily exceeds HD-DVD's dual layer storage limit.
BR discs can now be made in regular DVD factories without any retooling needed.
It all a matter of the cost for the player now.
Which is exactly why HD-DVD players have seen a major price reduction.
They know HD-DVD doesnt stand a chance once BRD players come down in price.
In the long run, the consumer has the most to win out of the BRD format.
Post by: Jase Winter on November 13, 2007, 03:07:00 AM
Post by: dvsone on November 13, 2007, 05:53:00 AM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 13 2007, 10:39 AM)
You are still making the same assumption.
Not everyone is a gamer. There is whole world full of people to whom Hi Def movie playback is a huge part of their entertainment. The world does not revolve around gaming. we may like it sure but others will wonder what the hell we see in it. It has been stated so often here in these forums that there are no games for the PS3 at the moment, so why would an out and out gamer buy a PS3. Are you now saying that people do buy it for games alone?
If what you were saying was true, then MS need not have bothered with the HD-DVD add on because not many people will buy movies for it because of the games available? That has not proved the case has it?
Post by: Chancer on February 03, 2020, 08:18:00 AM
QUOTE
It is a fact that the majority of PS3 owners are gamers, bought the PS3 to play/wait for games, and intend to spend most of their money on gaming. The movie enthusiasts occupy a small percentage of the install base.
As stated by myself and others. It is not fact. Just because you say it doesn't make it fact. You have as much idea about reasons people purchase it as I do.
Does it take so much believing that people looking for a BR player saw/see the price of the PS3 and buy that rather than drop a load more on a standalone.
You have absolutely no backup to claim your "fact" at all, so just like all the analysts etc you are just assuming.
Post by: dvsone on November 13, 2007, 08:07:00 AM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 13 2007, 04:18 PM)
As stated by myself and others. It is not fact. Just because you say it doesn't make it fact. You have as much idea about reasons people purchase it as I do.
Does it take so much believing that people looking for a BR player saw/see the price of the PS3 and buy that rather than drop a load more on a standalone.
You have absolutely no backup to claim your "fact" at all, so just like all the analysts etc you are just assuming.
http://arstechnica.c...pabilities.html
Post by: lizardmanny on February 03, 2020, 08:59:00 AM
Post by: Chancer on November 13, 2007, 08:49:00 AM
QUOTE(dvsone @ Nov 13 2007, 03:43 PM)
Jeez, if you really think most people buy a PS3 as a Blu-Ray player, please explain to me why the Blu-Ray attach rate is so god damn low.
http://arstechnica.c...pabilities.html
Don't post more crap in the form of a link that was discussed on here months ago. The survey that led to that included 6 year old kids for goodness sake and the actual survey totals were a joke. I remember it being a news post in the forums.
QUOTE
The survey, using 6,260 responses across next-generation console owners ages six to 44
Is that the best you can do?
It certainly doesn't prove your point.
Oh if you want to read some more spin and nonsense from so called experts read it from the same source you quote, about attach rates.
http://arstechnica.c...61122-8273.html
QUOTE
No one is taking into account that Blu-ray cannot do real time PIP, and wont be able to until profile 1.1 gets finalized, but here is the kicker - few blu-ray players out there will be upgradeable to play a 1.1 disc, you have to buy a whole new player
Another reason why people may choose the PS3 as a player of BR first. It is upgradeable.
It will not mater to me much as I will have a standalone HD-DVD player by Xmas as well. If the 360 had it in I would buy a new 360.As personally I like the idea of one machine doing both.
Post by: dvsone on November 13, 2007, 09:45:00 AM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 13 2007, 05:25 PM)
Don't post more crap in the form of a link that was discussed on here months ago. The survey that led to that included 6 year old kids for goodness sake and the actual survey totals were a joke. I remember it being a news post in the forums.
Is that the best you can do?
It certainly doesn't prove your point.
Oh if you want to read some more spin and nonsense from so called experts read it from the same source you quote, about attach rates.
http://arstechnica.c...61122-8273.html
Another reason why people may choose the PS3 as a player of BR first. It is upgradeable.
It will not mater to me much as I will have a standalone HD-DVD player by Xmas as well. If the 360 had it in I would buy a new 360.As personally I like the idea of one machine doing both.
Post by: Chancer on February 03, 2020, 10:29:00 AM
QUOTE
Yes of course...high attach rates are bad and Blu-Ray has an attach rate less than 1, so that's good!
The link I inserted was to show you what nonsense and spin can be put on statements. If you look you will see that I think the article is also bollocks as well.
Real world figures are impossible almost to get right, different sites and journalists spin everything to make it fit their point of view. You and I are no different to them, just differing opinions. But that is all they are our take on it. Not facts . We certainly can't speak for other peoples preferences.
QUOTE
Ding ding ding, you win the argument.
I wasn't aware it was an argument. I thought it was viewpoints from differing angles. A discussion but with a difference of opinion. There is nothing to win or lose.
Post by: dvsone on November 13, 2007, 10:25:00 AM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 13 2007, 06:29 PM)
The link I inserted was to show you what nonsense and spin can be put on statements. If you look you will see that I think the article is also bollocks as well.
Real world figures are impossible almost to get right, different sites and journalists spin everything to make it fit their point of view. You and I are no different to them, just differing opinions. But that is all they are our take on it. Not facts . We certainly can't speak for other peoples preferences.
I wasn't aware it was an argument. I thought it was viewpoints from differing angles. A discussion but with a difference of opinion. There is nothing to win or lose.
The 2 articles aren't even closely related. One was a survey, and the other is analysis/opinion. I can agree with some of the points in the high attach rate article, they're not all that far fetched, some are.
And, an argument is a discussion in which disagreement is expressed.
I definitely won't be replying again to this thread, cause it was dead 20 posts ago.
Go nuts Chancer.
Post by: viperware on November 13, 2007, 11:37:00 AM
-p-
Post by: shenmuemaster on November 13, 2007, 06:47:00 PM
Post by: HotKnife420 on November 13, 2007, 08:14:00 PM
QUOTE(erexx @ Nov 13 2007, 11:30 AM)
BRD is the superior format simply because of its storage size.
BRD: 25GB / 50GB
HDDVD: 15GB / 30GB
I remember a thread here not too long ago about how HD-DVD was able to exceed that, and the 50GB discs don't actually exist, yet (or at least didn't; update me).
Post by: 88 Ecko Unltd 88 on November 13, 2007, 08:59:00 PM
Post by: erexx on November 13, 2007, 10:14:00 PM
and quite possibly games 50GB is more than enough.
I am not trying to say anyone format is "better" than the other.
I think I said they are both EQUAL to begin with.
Do triple layer HD-DVD's exist yet?
Should I bring up Hitachi's 4 layer 100GB Blu-Ray disk?
Pointless.
More over they are both simply fine for what they do.
HD-DVD players are cheap and I will probably buy one.
In the mean time my PS3 plays Blu-Ray movies beautifully, makes for a fine DVD upscaler
and has a few choice PS3 games that I love.
I remember beta-max...
MD, UMD and now its BRD
Another dead format from Sony?... maybe.
BRD may die on cost alone, but to argue its because it lacks quality is ridiculous.
Argue that is dies because of economics and I would be more convinced.
Post by: mc_365 on November 13, 2007, 10:28:00 PM
Any content provider would want to find a way to sell that additional content to you seperately.
Also at current times the yeilds on BD dual layer discs are not that great, thus the cost increases substantialy.
Add the royalties that Sony gets and the market wont bear the price of the disc.
The expensive to manufacture disc becomes more exspensive when it is dual layer.
Fortunately for BluRay owners Sony owns a few movie studios, and don't charge themselves royalties on BD.
http://www.dvdfile.c...o...iew&id=6310
Post by: Barnolde on November 14, 2007, 01:45:00 AM
Seriously.
Really, I mean it.
"What do you say to the fact that Blu-ray holds more space and has more companies backing it?" - Actual numbers, who needs those, HD DVD is just fine.
HD DVDesperation is hilarious. I bet this guy participates in buy days for HD DVD to try and beat Blu-ray, just once.
Post by: cryptonic on February 04, 2020, 12:41:00 PM
Post by: mc_365 on November 14, 2007, 11:09:00 PM
QUOTE(cryptonic @ Nov 14 2007, 08:41 PM)
Sure this might happen..... Have a good time salivating over this fud news... I'll be happy with the FACT that blueray is trouncing hddvd RIGHT NOW..... Sony backs them for f sake... The majority of the movies in your dvd collection are backed by who.... Sony..... Sure I would like paramount back but I'm not going to buy a hddvd player to play paramount movies.. And did anyone come to the conclusion that the price of blueray players will drop to compete against hddvd... You're living in a dream world if you think that blueray player manufacturers are going to let their revenue fall out the window because they didn't want to compete..... I'm getting really sick of fud news on xboxscene lately.... you would be lucky to find any piece of news on this site these days that wasn't just speculation or rumour. The xboxscene I once knew is long dead.
Do you realy think there is room to lower prices on BluRay Disc Players?
Don't you think we would have seen the biggest BluRay manufacturer do something when the competition went to $99?
Sony put the BluRay player in the playstation and Sony owns half of the studios, so a large precentage of content will be BD exclusive.
PS3 Expected to sell tens of millions, projected BD sales to PS3 owners + projected Bluray player sales driven by exclusive content = BluRay wins.
Toshiba puts out a better thought out product, with final specs.
Their product is easier and cheaper to manufacture, both hardware and media.
The capacity is at least double the current market king DVD and easily can be increased to a size good enough for it's intended purpose.
And all of the above is being done at close to half the price of the competitors product.
So manufacturers are playing it safe by going with Sony, even if they have to pay royalties through the nose, and the production cost are high, and their yeilds are low.
The fact is the Market is so small and production runs of these units are so small that it is not a major risk for anyone but Sony and Toshiba.
But the PS3 has been slow getting out the gate, do to late entry, high cost, little content for core audience, and intial BD movies looked like crap do to initial codec choice.
So Bluray is neck and neck with HD-DVD.
Bluray which is inheirently more expensive than HD-DVD remains expensive at retail, relative to its competitors.
1) Uneducated Consumer (99% of Population) go to big box retail store and see demo units, Picture looks good on both, both units are hooked up to surround sound, in the mind of the uneducated consumer both are the same thing.
Consumer chooses the most competitively priced product.
2) Uneducated consumer is told that movies are exclusive to on type of player in some cases , consumer gets angry dosen't by either product.
3) Small precentage of consumers by both formats or multi format player.
Manufactures notice a large portion of market share is going to HD-DVD, manufactures being in business to make money descide that there is an oppertunity to capitalize on this still developing market and begin producing more HD-DVD players, which are cheaper to produce.
The increased competition and manufacturing enhancements, drive HD-DVD player prices down even further.
BD cost fall, but not as rapidly or as significantly as HD-DVD, and Sony still charges high royalty fees, as they try to recoupe many consecutive quarters worth of losses on PS3, incentives paid to retailers, marketing cost, ect.
Consumer adoption of HD-DVD gets more attention from studios whom are in business to make money, they begin releasing more content in HD-DVD.
Sony's movie studios begin to realize there is a sizable market that owns one HD disc player and it is not BD compatable, being that Sony Studios is in business to make money they descide to release movies in both BD and HD-DVD.
Sony begins to make Multi format players.
And thats how it will end.
Post by: Barnolde on November 15, 2007, 01:32:00 AM
QUOTE(mc_365 @ Nov 15 2007, 01:45 AM)
Blah blah blah
BR has outsold HD DVD at least 60:40 every single week. Even Transformers vs an empty BR week couldn't give HD DVD the lead. Now it's back to BR trouncing HD DVD, again.
The desperation, bias, FUD and overall fanboy ignorance spinning is sickening. Everyone hates Sony and will make up any shit they can to show that, its disgusting.
I mean the HD DVD camp keeps saying wait for this, wait for that, Transformers is coming, cheaper models are coming, don't count the PS3 (makes no sense), standalone sales are better than BR standalone.
I mean goddamn, you people are pathetic. BR sells better, it has more companies backing it, it's technically superior, just give it a rest and maybe BR will be nice enough lube up before it dives into your living room.
Post by: Chancer on November 15, 2007, 03:21:00 AM
QUOTE
Don't you think we would have seen the biggest BluRay manufacturer do something when the competition went to $99?
That was a clearance of discontinued Toshiba players.
Funai are already in pre production of a cheap Blu-Ray player.
QUOTE
Toshiba puts out a better thought out product, with final specs.
Says who? Don't forget Blu-Ray is not just backed by Sony but also by major manufacturers such as Panasonic.
Early Toshiba products were excellent. Newer ones are are now mostly Toshiba in badge name only (Vestel have a huge stranglehold in manufacturing stuff for Toshiba as well as many others and the quality is marginal , to say the least)(Above is based on practical experience and the fact we are Toshiba Authourised repair agents)
QUOTE
Uneducated Consumer (99% of Population) go to big box retail store and see demo units, Picture looks good on both, both units are hooked up to surround sound, in the mind of the uneducated consumer both are the same thing.
Uneducated customers are still in the early stages of using DVD and will not switch to either format quickly. people don't buy something, even at a bargain price, if they don't know what it is or does and if they have no use for it. People will not want to pay the higher prices on either yet for the movies.
Post by: 88 Ecko Unltd 88 on November 15, 2007, 10:11:00 AM
Post by: mc_365 on November 16, 2007, 09:15:00 PM
The person claming that a format is superior Just becuase it has larger capacity sounds more like the fanboy to me.
Stick with Sony if you like but the fact is Sony will in the future make a dual format player, becuase Bluray is not going to win anything.
Both formats will exist until something replaces them both, like downloads or solid state.
As far as my comment about Toshiba have the better thought out product.
"To verify that these new players are in fact only Profile 1, I downloaded the User Manuals for both players, and on page 5 of both manuals resides the following text:
"This player supports BD-ROM Profile 1 only. Playback of later versions of BDs other than BD-ROM is not guaranteed. Since the Blu-ray Disc specifications are new and evolving, some discs may not play depending on the disc type and the version..."
Profile 1 only and some discs may not play, thats an absolute gem. I have provided the download links for both manuals from Sony for any who care to view the source."
http://www.docs.sony...ase/BDPS500.pdf
http://www.docs.sony...e/BDPS200ES.pdf
Read full article at http://www.audioholi...cation-deadline
Post by: Chancer on November 17, 2007, 02:53:00 AM
The Samsung TSR and Panasonic TR have said they will make a flash upgrade via the dealer service tool. (I speak to both once a fortnight)
Sony will follow suit as they always have to. If they are already going to upgrade the PS3 via software they will bring out upgrades via dealers for S.A players.
The discs will still play on initial players but not the extra features.
The information including service and diagnostic software , dealers have goes far beyond what is available in the Owners guide and manual.
DVD players have been no different in the past and indeed we have had to perform hardware upgrades to some that refused to play certain DVD films (Think back to The Matrix)
At the end of the day incompatibility of different standards can affect any player, be it Toshiba or Sony. Once it becomes apparent dealer upgrades quickly start arriving.
I still say neither is going to overturn DVD any time soon. Film availability and film price will have a big role to play.
Which would you buy (imaginary example)
XBox 560 console at $399 with a catalogue of 300 games at $10 each?
PS5 console at $199 with a catalogue of 20 games at $35 each?
This is intended just to show how price of software/films can soon alter the perception that initial purchase price of the hardware will be the biggest factor.
This so called war has years in it yet and truth is nobody knows who if any will win.
The consumer will not lose because at the moment your average person in the street will keep his money in his pocket unless he forced to change the technology he uses.