Post by: Xbox-Scene on January 31, 2007, 12:58:00 PM
| From extremetech.com: Quote
Full Story: extremetech.com (5 pages) |
Post by: Xx The 0ne xX on January 31, 2007, 12:25:00 PM
Post by: drewberg111 on January 31, 2007, 12:30:00 PM
Post by: epsilon72 on January 31, 2007, 12:31:00 PM
This post has been edited by epsilon72: Jan 31 2007, 08:31 PM
Post by: gerzand on January 31, 2007, 11:57:00 AM
QUOTE(drewberg111 @ Jan 31 2007, 07:01 PM) 
mine looks far from that awful. infact my 360 does a much better job than the dvd player included with my 500watt insignia sound system. my picture is perfectly clear. maybe there are just faulty drives? that picture comparo on the main page just looks awful, could also be tv settings maybe. all i know is mine has looked great since i got it a week after launch day.
I agree. I have a 84'' Hi-Def Projector system that looks fantastic over VGA or Component using the 360's DVD playback. It looks like they have simply caught it in mid-frame with some shitty settings on their tv/monitor
Post by: Tha on January 31, 2007, 12:36:00 PM
so if thats true hows it possible that i always use my 360 for watching movies, instead of my 700 euro panasonic one of my home theater set, wich display my movies more crapier
Post by: DoTsTeR on January 31, 2007, 12:36:00 PM
my 360 does as good or better a job than 2 different progressive scan higher end players I have and the picture looks great on my 42 lcd..
I mean as good as it's gonna look on a screen like that for being a regualr dvd and only being 480p and not upscaled
Post by: Landlocked on January 31, 2007, 12:02:00 PM
Holy Hi-diddly-DVD-woes, neighbor!
Post by: HamSandwhich on January 31, 2007, 12:40:00 PM
Post by: gehx on January 31, 2007, 12:09:00 PM
I'm of the opinion that the 360 shouldn't be used for watching movies...just use a stand alone player. the less strain on the system the better. why would anyone wanna risk having to send in the 360 for repair when you weren't even playing games. we've all heard about the failing hardware in the 360. I've experienced it 3 times so far. in short, don't use your 360 for anything other than playing games if you want it to last.
Post by: Maverick0984 on January 31, 2007, 12:12:00 PM
QUOTE(gehx @ Jan 31 2007, 01:16 PM)
I'm of the opinion that the 360 shouldn't be used for watching movies...just use a stand alone player. the less strain on the system the better. why would anyone wanna risk having to send in the 360 for repair when you weren't even playing games. we've all heard about the failing hardware in the 360. I've experienced it 3 times so far. in short, don't use your 360 for anything other than playing games if you want it to last.
lol, I think this is just a silly viewpoint.
In any case, my 360 plays DVDs great...article is written by a Sony fanboy
.
Post by: gnutellafan on January 31, 2007, 12:49:00 PM
Post by: drewberg111 on January 31, 2007, 01:00:00 PM
Post by: xboxSlayer on January 31, 2007, 01:03:00 PM
Post by: thax on January 31, 2007, 01:07:00 PM
If you just watch the odd movie then it's not a big deal.
Post by: Peter Gibbons on January 31, 2007, 12:33:00 PM
Post by: deadparrot on January 31, 2007, 12:33:00 PM
Post by: Pheidias on January 31, 2007, 12:38:00 PM
They do say that some titles get effected more then others by the 360 lacking dvdplayer, Not that many titles looks as crap as the monthy python one..
"even those movies that play without noticeable errors don't look quite as good as they should. Though the 360 is limited to 480p through component, in compliance with the DVD Forum's regulations, the images tend to have a bit of a blocky and over-sharp look to them. Microsoft's gaming box does a good job of preserving detail, but it sometimes looks a bit rough. It's like playing a game at low resolution without antialiasing."
Post by: appleguru on January 31, 2007, 12:38:00 PM
Post by: HSDEMONZ on January 31, 2007, 12:46:00 PM
First.. while they make constant comments regarding how a 100$ player can outperform the 360. why'd they use an 800$ player for the tests and the visual proof?
They'd go alot further convincing people if they had used that 100$ player in the review.
Second.. the Denon does alot of Noise reduction per frame as evidenced by the screen captures they made. Now.. that can do some interesting things per frame.. but one of the side effects is that it will smooth out all the jaggies.. and that isn't always a good thing. Details get tossed and thrown away sometimes.
A proper DVD video capability review.. needs to be reviewed with VIDEO.. no stills. We don't watch it frame by frame. We watch it MOVING.
Have them make high quality video clips using both units.. and ideally the 100$ unit as well.. so we can see the video as it's meant to be viewed.
I don't know about you.. but regardless of what player I watch a DVD or HDDVD or BR DVD on.. when I pause I tend to not like what I see. However, when the image is moving as it naturally does.. it looks great.
I do agree with one thing.. many cheapass set top player perform amazingly well.
I however do not agree with how low the 360 did on their tests.
It's not a BAD player. It's just not a great player. For what it is.. a multipurpose device.. it's more than adequate.
Post by: gaming fanboy on January 31, 2007, 12:48:00 PM
QUOTE(Xx The 0ne xX @ Jan 31 2007, 07:56 PM)
wowww, this better get fixed or m$ is gonna get a bitch phone call from me
call them, and see if they care.
Post by: twistedsymphony on January 31, 2007, 12:50:00 PM
Black levels and shadow detail are crap with no user adjustments available.
Not to mention the digital audio stream (in some games too) will drop out in dead silence causing most auto sensing receivers to hiccup when the sound comes back on... this is particularly annoying while navigating menus that include sound effects.
If you've got an Xbox1 XMBC is hands down the better DVD player. My only gripe with XBMC is that the IR remote support is a bit lacking still.
Though in the Xbox 360's defense it was a bit unfair of the author to compare it to a Denon player... who arguably make some of the highest quality DVD players on the market.
Post by: -Spud- on January 31, 2007, 12:57:00 PM
They claim both the 360 and Denon screenshots were running in 480p mode. I'm telling you right now if your DVD player looks like that in 480p on a progressive scan display unit then something is wrong. Even the Denon screenshots look bad.
They also claim that using a VGA cable for the 360 and running it upscaled doesnt make any difference to the bad picture they were getting.
I think the main problem here is taking screenshots on a 4ms LCD TV while in motion. This will make any image look pretty nasty.
Post by: Majkey88 on January 31, 2007, 12:58:00 PM
The Xbox 360
http://img235.images...2563/360kh0.jpg
My standalone Panasonic Home Theater
http://img233.images...5262/dvdya9.jpg
The 360 owns my Panasonic!
Post by: HSDEMONZ on January 31, 2007, 12:59:00 PM
QUOTE(-Spud- @ Jan 31 2007, 03:04 PM)
I think the main problem here is taking screenshots on a 4ms LCD TV while in motion. This will make any image look pretty nasty.
another problem with their review methods. ^
Post by: chuckthefuk on January 31, 2007, 01:00:00 PM
- Real DVD's (100%)
- Burnt DVD's (100%)
All tested on HD/VGA/RCA and to say the least.. Coax..
Then again I am one of the few who has no issues with my 360...
Post by: feflicker on January 31, 2007, 01:06:00 PM
That being said, if there are problems, MS$ should improve them if they can...
Post by: snake36 on January 31, 2007, 01:09:00 PM
QUOTE(Xx The 0ne xX @ Jan 31 2007, 07:56 PM)
wowww, this better get fixed or m$ is gonna get a bitch phone call from me
LOL if you never noticed that it was bad when you WATCHED dvds then why are you complaining now when some guy runs a benchmark on it..
Post by: I_LIVE_IN_COMPTON on January 31, 2007, 01:24:00 PM
most people don't have that kinda money to be buying a Denon.
Post by: DugFreez on January 31, 2007, 01:35:00 PM
This article is absolute rubbish. If the 360 did as bad at playing DVDs as the screen shots show it would be noticed by everyone. I actually unhooked my $200 Oppo up-converting DVD as soon as Microsoft patched the 360 to up-convert DVD through VGA. It looked alot better than the highly rated Oppo.
Post by: Tobb555 on January 31, 2007, 01:42:00 PM
Post by: Consoleman! on January 31, 2007, 01:46:00 PM
If your players aren't exhibiting the same symptoms, prove the man wrong. Seeing you do so would be very interesting indeed.
Post by: Interfire on January 31, 2007, 01:47:00 PM
Post by: kneehighspy on January 31, 2007, 01:53:00 PM
Post by: jhoff80 on January 31, 2007, 01:58:00 PM
QUOTE(Tobb555 @ Jan 31 2007, 05:49 PM)
I dont belive this for a second for two reasons. The first being I use my 360 as a DVD player all the time and it looks great, second they use the term "jaggies" and no review website trying to be profession should never use that term. Saying it has lack of "Antialiasing" yes, saying it has "jaggies". No.. Not even close to being professional.
Uh, except for DVDs, its ADDING jagged edges that aren't there in the source. DVD players aren't supposed to have anti-aliasing, they're supposed to properly display the source.
For all you people who are saying your 360 works great as a DVD player, you should maybe read the article a little more in depth. Most of the tests that it fails, are based on DIFFICULT videos to play. By difficult I mean, most of these tests are completely irrelevant on 95% of all DVDs. That being said, some of these results ARE disappointing. Namely, the fact that it doesn't do proper 3:2 pulldown detection and de-interlacing.
It seems like most of these problems though are an artifact of poor deinterlacing in the DVD software, and they really should be easily fixable. Just because your DVDs don't display these problems doesn't mean that you should cut Microsoft any slack on this.
Post by: jimjom on January 31, 2007, 02:09:00 PM
Post by: mlmadmax on January 31, 2007, 02:12:00 PM
Post by: SteveNZ on January 31, 2007, 02:19:00 PM
QUOTE(Landlocked @ Jan 31 2007, 08:09 PM)
Is it me or does that dude in the church robe look like Ned Flanders?
It's Michael Palin.
They're comparing this against a fairly high-end DVD player for a start which is a bad idea. My mid-range Sony HDMI DVD player does a better job of playing DVDs, but it's a standalone unit that cost almost as much as the 360 itself.
Apart from the unbearable noise from my 360 while watching movies (much louder than my friends one to my annoyance), there is no WAY that the image quality is as bad as these guys make out. It's still not particularly great, but unless you're using fairly high end gear then it's fine. I'm pretty sure the base DVD playback software is exactly the same as that used on the original Xbox, it certainly was before the HD-DVD compatibility upgrades.
I think it now does upscaling playback of 480p DVDs which is a nice bonus, but there isn't any reason that with the power the 360 has, they couldn't write a professional grade DVD playback algorithm, and it'd be nice if they did. PowerDVD runs better on lesser hardware, and Microsoft is a fairly large company, hopefully this article, even it if is a bit over the top, spurs them into action.
Post by: thirdeye555 on January 31, 2007, 02:30:00 PM
Post by: poisonousjuice on January 31, 2007, 02:34:00 PM
...however, my unit is very unforgiving when it comes to scratches on the disc. anyone else have similar experiences?
Post by: TheIrishLad on January 31, 2007, 02:38:00 PM
Post by: Fyb3roptik on January 31, 2007, 02:39:00 PM
Unless they have like 10 360's doing the same thing I dont wanna hear about it. If its just 1 then who cares?
Post by: smitty2003 on January 31, 2007, 02:51:00 PM
NE ways there not much i could say that hasnt alrteady been said.
I love my 360
Post by: dhrandy1 on January 31, 2007, 02:53:00 PM
Post by: funnyperson1 on January 31, 2007, 02:54:00 PM
Post by: Lamer123 on January 31, 2007, 03:04:00 PM
Sometimes I think it is HD on my TV
Post by: rob61 on January 31, 2007, 03:33:00 PM
Post by: elitegamer360 on January 31, 2007, 03:35:00 PM
Post by: dkkev on January 31, 2007, 03:44:00 PM
whoever says this article is bollox knows nowt about dvd-playback... the 360 is shite compared to what its capable of..
dont get me wrong - i love my 360 - but for dvd-playback i'll stick to my xbox1 or a standalone dvdplayer.. they do a much better job at that.
Post by: BoostFrenzy on January 31, 2007, 04:05:00 PM
Post by: signal-to-noise-ratio on January 31, 2007, 04:15:00 PM
Post by: shanoo on January 31, 2007, 05:35:00 PM
when i first got my 360, it output dvds with that bad quality in the test
but after the big update, it was very smooth (no more feathering/artifacts)...
perhaps this is another sony propaganda?
Post by: nuzzy on January 31, 2007, 06:36:00 PM
Post by: 0794 on January 31, 2007, 08:04:00 PM
Post by: tdcemanuel on January 31, 2007, 08:10:00 PM
Post by: troyBORG on January 31, 2007, 08:38:00 PM
I've acually noticed that. I thought it was cause it was running the movie in 480p. I put the movie in my Xbox and run it at 720p and didn't notice it. Is it the player or the software? Like does XBMC handle DVDs and videos better or is it just me?
Post by: funnyperson1 on January 31, 2007, 08:43:00 PM
Post by: RequimForMe on January 31, 2007, 08:53:00 PM
Post by: luther349 on January 31, 2007, 09:46:00 PM
Post by: xsirxx on February 01, 2007, 12:22:00 AM
QUOTE(SteveNZ @ Feb 1 2007, 05:28 AM)
Certainly, if you'd like to provide me with a commercial site that I can publish the article on, and get other sites to link to it as being "informative", I'll do it.
Running my 360 over component, VGA or composite into various screens, none look as bad as these guys are making out. They've either got a hardware incompatiblity somewhere, or they're straight out talking bullshit. It's not a particularly good DVD player, but it's not as bad as they're making out.
What type of projector? If you're talking about a hang-from-the-ceiling unit then not a chance your blacks are better than plasma. Maybe you mean rear projection or DLP?
I know some plasmas have hit 10000:1 now, but yea front projection on a VPL-HS60(also known as the 51A). They can achieve this now because of the variable iris... which most projectors are coming out with these days, thats even in the cheap range like the HS60...
Post by: Morlok8k on February 01, 2007, 12:27:00 AM
QUOTE(acsutton @ Jan 31 2007, 12:52 PM)
This is an awful statement. I run my 360 through a vga cable, and it produces crystal clear, jitter free, dvd playback. Infact it is the only thing I use to play dvd movies any more because of its superiority to my other name brand players.
as with me
Upscaled using VGA, Perfect Picture, i can only watch DVDs only on my 360 - no other player i've ever seen does better.
(i can only play games in hi-def now as well)
Post by: Peter Gibbons on February 01, 2007, 02:15:00 AM
Post by: msr on February 01, 2007, 02:56:00 AM
surely anyone who has a 360, has a dvd player anyway, so whats the problem.
Post by: tuxen on February 01, 2007, 02:56:00 AM
QUOTE(shanoo @ Feb 1 2007, 02:42 AM)
yeah, something's definately wrong here...
when i first got my 360, it output dvds with that bad quality in the test
but after the big update, it was very smooth (no more feathering/artifacts)...
perhaps this is another sony propaganda?
I expirenced this too.. I use VGA output and before the update whenever playing a DVD, my TV got switched to an odd 640x480 mode, not 720x480 like it was supposed todo. This caused the TV to produce horrible output! I got a little upset back then, but then again I had many other means to playback a DVD.
After the DVD-upscaling update, I find the 360 better quality than any of my other DVD players.
Post by: luther349 on February 01, 2007, 03:13:00 AM
Post by: lowendfrequency on February 01, 2007, 07:00:00 AM
Post by: jhoff80 on February 01, 2007, 12:04:00 PM
QUOTE(schex86 @ Feb 1 2007, 12:25 PM)
Extremetech's article is the only thing that's seriously flawed here.
As I've said multiple times here, the only thing that is flawed is this board's reading skills.
THE TEST DISC THAT THEY USE IS DIFFICULT MATERIAL TO PLAY, not standard DVD footage. Look at the tests that the 360 fails, and most of them are on clips with a weird cadence. Most DVDs that are authored correctly will have absolutely no issues. The Meaning of Life DVD has an improper flag on the material, which is a big part of why it looks horrible. That being said, just because you don't see issues with the DVDs that you own is absolutely no reason to cut Microsoft any slack on this issue. As the article says, its a software based player, and the software PC players perform much better than this, as does the example $160 Oppo Digital player I linked to earlier.
Stop calling the article flawed, just because you don't understand the issues that they are having. I know this is an Xbox site, but that doesn't mean you have to blindly defend MS and the 360 when you don't understand the problems.
Post by: Peter Gibbons on February 01, 2007, 01:02:00 PM
Post by: Altima NEO on February 01, 2007, 02:01:00 PM
Post by: xboxnas on February 01, 2007, 03:22:00 PM
Post by: Nytemunkey on February 01, 2007, 05:12:00 PM
The quality of that article is horrible as it just seems like an attack of the 360, which in that case makes it loose all cred in my mind.
As for me I havent had much to test with it. When I do watch dvds (instead of HD content which is truley amazing and is probably the reason this sony fanboy had to write this article) the dvds I watch are usually compressed so I cannot see them in their full beauty anyway. But so far I prefer this player over my xbmc xbox and my samsung 5 disc changer.
I'm sorry but if you agree or not that article is crap and should be disregarded.
Post by: schex86 on February 01, 2007, 07:16:00 PM
QUOTE(jhoff80 @ Feb 1 2007, 10:11 AM)
As I've said multiple times here, the only thing that is flawed is this board's reading skills.
THE TEST DISC THAT THEY USE IS DIFFICULT MATERIAL TO PLAY, not standard DVD footage. Look at the tests that the 360 fails, and most of them are on clips with a weird cadence. Most DVDs that are authored correctly will have absolutely no issues. The Meaning of Life DVD has an improper flag on the material, which is a big part of why it looks horrible. That being said, just because you don't see issues with the DVDs that you own is absolutely no reason to cut Microsoft any slack on this issue. As the article says, its a software based player, and the software PC players perform much better than this, as does the example $160 Oppo Digital player I linked to earlier.
Stop calling the article flawed, just because you don't understand the issues that they are having. I know this is an Xbox site, but that doesn't mean you have to blindly defend MS and the 360 when you don't understand the problems.
jhoff, since you seem to be so focused on "reading comprehension" let's take a closer shall we. First of all, pitting the 360 against a $1000 Denon is fairly suspicious. Though many references are made to middle tier DVD players (and even the PS2) "seriously outperforming" the 360, we never see photos of anything but the Denon. Second, though mention is made of possible software updates for the 360, nowhere does the author state that he has actually updated this particular console. Finally, why, didn't he choose to output the image over VGA @ 1080p. Well, is it possible that the 1080p output wasn't enabled until after the fall update.
It's called reading between the lines. Whether or not there was some hidden anti-MS agenda or just the desire to generate an attention getting headline, somebody didn't do their homework. I am speaking from personal experience when I say that after the fall update (and purchasing the VGA cable for DVD upscaling) the image quality was so good that I soon after ditched all my standalone (middle-tier) DVD players in favor of the 360. I have over 500 DVDs, to include several of the ones included in the article, and the problems he highlighted are simply not there.
As I said before, MS has largely addressed most of the DVD playback issues mentioned in the article with the fall update. If the article was updated to compare an updated 360 running at 1080p vs. the $1000 Denon and several other players, then it might actually have some merit. Until then its simply comparing apples to oranges and perhaps having the unfortunate effect of deterring a few uninformed fence-sitters from purchasing a 360 because of the "serious" DVD playback flaws.
To say the 360's DVD playback is "seriously flawed" is an out and out falsehood, and is probably the main reason why, and I'll say it again, the article is seriously flawed.
Post by: jhoff80 on February 02, 2007, 12:44:00 AM
QUOTE(schex86 @ Feb 1 2007, 11:23 PM)
jhoff, since you seem to be so focused on "reading comprehension" let's take a closer shall we. First of all, pitting the 360 against a $1000 Denon is fairly suspicious. Though many references are made to middle tier DVD players (and even the PS2) "seriously outperforming" the 360, we never see photos of anything but the Denon. Second, though mention is made of possible software updates for the 360, nowhere does the author state that he has actually updated this particular console. Finally, why, didn't he choose to output the image over VGA @ 1080p. Well, is it possible that the 1080p output wasn't enabled until after the fall update.
It's called reading between the lines. Whether or not there was some hidden anti-MS agenda or just the desire to generate an attention getting headline, somebody didn't do their homework. I am speaking from personal experience when I say that after the fall update (and purchasing the VGA cable for DVD upscaling) the image quality was so good that I soon after ditched all my standalone (middle-tier) DVD players in favor of the 360. I have over 500 DVDs, to include several of the ones included in the article, and the problems he highlighted are simply not there.
As I said before, MS has largely addressed most of the DVD playback issues mentioned in the article with the fall update. If the article was updated to compare an updated 360 running at 1080p vs. the $1000 Denon and several other players, then it might actually have some merit. Until then its simply comparing apples to oranges and perhaps having the unfortunate effect of deterring a few uninformed fence-sitters from purchasing a 360 because of the "serious" DVD playback flaws.
To say the 360's DVD playback is "seriously flawed" is an out and out falsehood, and is probably the main reason why, and I'll say it again, the article is seriously flawed.
Except, its a completely objective test, that tells you how to score each test. Besides that, you say that they are comparing it to a $1000 player. Yes, that is true, but if you read my two posts before this, there is a $160 player from Oppo Digital that gets a 90 on the same benchmarks.
The article also mentions specifically that it is run at 480p. While yes, with the VGA cable it is capable of upscaling to 1080p, and some of the problems are avoided by doing that, not everyone has a VGA cable, a TV capable of VGA input, or for that matter, a TV capable of 1080p at all. They even explained their reasoning on this, saying that the majority of consoles are connected using component cables. While it seems most here have VGA cables, you have to remember that this is an enthusiast site. Again, just because you don't have issues, doesn't mean that the issues that some will have should be left alone, never to be fixed. Sure, the process of upscaling by itself fixes most of these issues, (not because the software is any better in that mode necessarily, but the actual scaling process itself removes the possibility of a lot of these causing any problems) but as I said, just because YOU don't have a problem, doesn't mean its not there. As the author states, it should be a relatively simple fix if Microsoft devotes a few programmers to it.
Now, as for the updates, as you can read from the author, "First, we plugged an Xbox 360 (premium SKU) with all software updates applied into a really gorgeous Sharp AQUOS LC-57D90U LCD HDTV via component cables."
All of the conspiracy theories about it being an unupdated console should go away now, because ExtremeTech is a big enough site to be considered trustworthy.
Post by: schex86 on February 02, 2007, 09:26:00 AM
QUOTE(jhoff80 @ Feb 1 2007, 10:51 PM)
Except, its a completely objective test, that tells you how to score each test. Besides that, you say that they are comparing it to a $1000 player. Yes, that is true, but if you read my two posts before this, there is a $160 player from Oppo Digital that gets a 90 on the same benchmarks.
Then why didn't they compare the 360 to a $160 Oppo? Wouldn't that be more objective? Wouldn't that get their point across even more emphatically?
And besides, where does the $1000 Denon fall into your "typical" setup? I've never had the pleasure of being associated with someone willing to plunk down a grand on a "typical" DVD player. If Extremetech was so devoted to the typical consumer, then they probably shouldn't have used this particular piece of equipment to write what could be considered an unbiased, purely objective article.
Good catch on the console update though. But again, it begs the question, why didn't they use the 360's maximum capability esp. after going on so much about how it could be updated? If, as you have already admitted, DVD upscaling addresses most of the issues leading to "serious" playback flaws, why is the VGA simply brushed aside as "non-typical". C'mon, its $40 bucks. That's hardly a drop in the bucket to the Denon player, and is much more feasible investment than even a $160 Oppo.
DVD upscaling is completely left out of the article, with the statement "it had no effect". Well, if it didn't have any effect, show me how. I understand the tests may not even be applicable to upscaled images, but most people are going to want to upscale if they have an HD display (w/VGA). But, the only recourse the author gives us is to write long carefully worded letters to MS and hope for the best. Hmm, as for me, I'll just spend the $40 bucks.
BTW, lots of HD displays have VGA inputs. They're not as hard to find as you might think.
Post by: jhoff80 on February 02, 2007, 10:35:00 AM
QUOTE(schex86 @ Feb 2 2007, 01:33 PM)
Then why didn't they compare the 360 to a $160 Oppo? Wouldn't that be more objective? Wouldn't that get their point across even more emphatically?
And besides, where does the $1000 Denon fall into your "typical" setup? I've never had the pleasure of being associated with someone willing to plunk down a grand on a "typical" DVD player. If Extremetech was so devoted to the typical consumer, then they probably shouldn't have used this particular piece of equipment to write what could be considered an unbiased, purely objective article.
Good catch on the console update though. But again, it begs the question, why didn't they use the 360's maximum capability esp. after going on so much about how it could be updated? If, as you have already admitted, DVD upscaling addresses most of the issues leading to "serious" playback flaws, why is the VGA simply brushed aside as "non-typical". C'mon, its $40 bucks. That's hardly a drop in the bucket to the Denon player, and is much more feasible investment than even a $160 Oppo.
DVD upscaling is completely left out of the article, with the statement "it had no effect". Well, if it didn't have any effect, show me how. I understand the tests may not even be applicable to upscaled images, but most people are going to want to upscale if they have an HD display (w/VGA). But, the only recourse the author gives us is to write long carefully worded letters to MS and hope for the best. Hmm, as for me, I'll just spend the $40 bucks.
BTW, lots of HD displays have VGA inputs. They're not as hard to find as you might think.
Although many HD displays do have VGA inputs, there are a ton that don't, and even still some people who have HD displays with only analog inputs need to use that for a PC or something along those lines. Besides that, there are still a ton of people who use the 360 on an SD display, even though most people here don't. I realize that the whole point of the 360 was the HD era, but many people won't be buying an HDTV until their current TV needs to be replaced. At the same time, Microsoft wants to be at the center of everyone's entertainment centers, not only for games but with Media Center Extenders, etc. Its about building up brand trust to get the user to stick with their products in the future. By ignoring the users who have issues like this, its much harder to convince a person that Microsoft products should be controlling their living room.
This type of user who shouldn't just be blown off because Microsoft is too lazy to update the DVD player software. As I've said a million times, just because the errors are not typical doesn't mean they should be ignored. I mean think about it, if you had a calculator that worked fine for most people, but every now and then some people get the wrong calculations, that'd be fixed right away. It should be the same way in the player software.
Post by: biga55 on February 02, 2007, 11:34:00 AM
I'd like to try out the 360 VGA cable though, to see what that gives.
Post by: zombie4rave on February 02, 2007, 01:23:00 PM
Post by: unclepauly on February 02, 2007, 06:48:00 PM
Post by: biga55 on February 02, 2007, 09:32:00 PM
The 360 choked once during the test (which is just DVD playback lol) though. Still, it's not as bad as the article claims it is. They're a bit guilty of sensationalism. It's good enough for most of us, and videophiles will have their Denons or cheaper HTPCs. They probably could improve it though, given the 360's horsepower.