Post by: Xbox-Scene on May 24, 2007, 10:34:00 PM
GamesIndustry.biz: Microsoft Needs to Act Now on Hardware Failures Posted by XanTium | May 24 23:58 EST | News Category: Xbox360 |
| From GamesIndustry.biz' Newsletter: Quote
Full Story: gamesindustry.biz |
Post by: jmbear on May 24, 2007, 09:28:00 PM
Post by: mlapaglia on May 24, 2007, 10:09:00 PM
while i haven't had a broken console (still got a launch system), i'm guessing that there is still problems with others. i think a release from microsoft saying the percentage is being released.
i think one factor could be you never hear from the vast majority of people that never have problems, the same goes for the university of dayton, who gives the university laptops from compal. this specific laptop has great ratings from other users, but at the university all you hear is from the people with problems (even though most of the problems are caused by the user lol).
i do think that the percentage of return is high though, but not as high as other people are saying.
Post by: licenz2kill on May 24, 2007, 10:26:00 PM
Post by: jagtown on May 24, 2007, 10:37:00 PM
I'm in Canada and I was just confirmed by an 1-800-4MY-XBOX that I will indeed be getting a refurbished xbox... Now I normally would say ... great... in the order that they are fixing units, they go out to the next customer waiting for their functional unit.... thats pretty efficient...
BUT... with possible hardware failures pretty much a matter of time (I know.. open to debate... perhaps im bias as im staring at 3 red lights after 5 months of perfect operation) before the problems return....
I mean the biggest arguement is... how many people had super nintendo's they needed to bring back... or even cd drive systems... My Dreamcast boots up fine to this day... and my 360 costs hundreds more than that.....
I love my 360.... but my love will go down with each red light that I see.... I think the way things are heading.... its going to be a reocurring nightmare for alot of us.... and MS will need to wake us up if they want to keep us...
Post by: mlapaglia on May 24, 2007, 10:05:00 PM
QUOTE(licenz2kill @ May 25 2007, 12:26 AM) 
Well ive got to say, i think the intercooler has a lot to do with the freezing and all. my system froze maybe a handful of times with it on, and ive taken it off 6 months ago and have yet to see it freeze again. out of all seriousness i dont see anyone complaining about them breaking anymore (i have like 10 local friends who have a 360, and fifty online that play all the time), and i think they fixed that solder contact problem with the second wave of consoles. by the way, mine is either launch or second wave. i got it in january 2006. its a great machine!
if you think about it, and it's been said before, the intercooler pulls on the already existing fans.
for most people, if you keep you 360 well ventilated, you are fine with the original fans.
i wonder why no one has developed faster replacement fans for it yet?
Post by: ThaCrip on May 24, 2007, 10:15:00 PM
cause i got mine used (basically more or less new) from half.com and so far it's working BUT it does have a glitch in it and i do get a E74 from time to time.
basically if the system is cold (I.E. setting overnight) and i first power it up almost always (pretty much always) nothing shows up on the screen... but once i power it OFF and the back ON it almost always works perfectly fine then.
cause once it's working i basically have 0 problems with it (only had a freeze i think once or so in game, but that was before i bought the "Nyko Intercooler EX" for it, since it got this the system runs MUCH cooler!, i know this cause touching the side of the case is "noticeably" more colder to the touch vs without it)
but it's like someone said im SURE there is alot more failures of the system that microsoft is willing to admit. (they claim, what was it? 3-5percent?)
just some thoughts
Post by: lowendfrequency on May 24, 2007, 11:25:00 PM
Post by: Liquidvlade Hiraduo on May 24, 2007, 11:42:00 PM
The only good thing about it is the compesation you get for a well thrown (excuse the language) bitch-fit. I had my brother call who's good at that and he got 50% off on the repair, 6 months of Xbox Live, and 2 years of warranty, which isnt bad. Still sucks you gotta pay 65$ but its better than 130$ + shipping.
Post by: vitorp07 on May 24, 2007, 11:46:00 PM
Post by: Paperstack.1 on May 24, 2007, 11:37:00 PM
* and no, those are not replacements from M$
Post by: Trevante on May 24, 2007, 11:43:00 PM
QUOTE(jagtown @ May 24 2007, 11:37 PM)
I mean the biggest arguement is... how many people had super nintendo's they needed to bring back... or even cd drive systems... My Dreamcast boots up fine to this day... and my 360 costs hundreds more than that.....
To be fair, you have to consider the type of technology used in the SNES and Dreamcast compared to the 360. Obviously when there's more stuff in a system, there's more room to go wrong. Sure MS could make a rock solid system if they made it like the Dreamcast, but then it wouldnt' be as functional as the 360 is would it?
Post by: chuckthefuk on May 25, 2007, 12:21:00 AM
WORD.
Post by: DuBob4432 on May 24, 2007, 11:46:00 PM
we all know what the problem is, and i am actually working on a copper gpu heatsink (i have the resources and the knowledge
), but i am still in alpha stages at best and basically am doing it more for proof of concept than anything else. to rectify the issue, follows RBJTechs tips on cooling down the box w/ his homebrew mods, and also do the xclamp/xbracket mod. also, once i get the copper heatsink done, i will probably send one over to RBJTech since he does have a lot of temperature data. if it is better, it is better, if not, than so be it. either way it is a fun way to learn solidworks 
Post by: faithlesssoul on May 24, 2007, 11:52:00 PM
QUOTE(Liquidvlade Hiraduo @ May 25 2007, 01:42 AM)
I totally agree that Microsoft must do something, this story is similar to the one of the PlayStation 2, too many lasers dying and stuff, but not nearly as many 3 red light cases we have seen. It feels like the Xbox 360 is disposable. I bought mine on December 18th (2nd shipment) and it lasted me until March this year. I really took care of it and out of no where, bam and you gotta pay 129$ for re-pairs, which is extremely unfair. Customer service makes you feel like you must spend extra money in order to play.
The only good thing about it is the compesation you get for a well thrown (excuse the language) bitch-fit. I had my brother call who's good at that and he got 50% off on the repair, 6 months of Xbox Live, and 2 years of warranty, which isnt bad. Still sucks you gotta pay 65$ but its better than 130$ + shipping.
PlayStation 2, too many lasers and what did sony do fucking nothing the the new version sill
have shit lasers
Post by: sinister slipknot on May 25, 2007, 01:05:00 AM
Post by: biosehnsucht on May 25, 2007, 02:51:00 AM
I have a mod'd xbox that still works fine to this day (mostly XBMC, some emu stuff, some old xbox games).
I had a PS2, that died a week after modding. The installer could find nothing wrong with it.. no blown fuses, nothing burnt, uninstalled the mod and still no good. I've gone through several dead PS2s trying to put together one from peices that works even w/o a modchip, and finally gave up. I should have just bought another new one, except you can't get ye olde big PS2s new already at the time I was trying to do this.. stupid slimlines.
I think I'll probably do like a friend of mine did, import a PS2 from Japan.. most of the ones on yahoo auctions aren't as abused as US consoles.. then mod that. I still haven't played MGS3, or God of War, and a few other titles.. plus there are several titles I'd like to play again. Most of the titles I want to play though, weren't even released in the US ...
My NES will probably work once I get off my ass and clean the contacts. SNES is fine, Dreamcast #2 is fine (the first one developed an overheating issue, after I opened it up out of curiosity.. funny thing is, nothing is visibly wrong with it).. Playstation (original) is fine after replacing the lens assembly.
My 360 has probably seen more hours of use than my PS2 did and probably more than my Playstation.. not as many yet as the NES or SNES, however.
So I guess there's a "problem" but part of it is, every single person goes online and whines when something happens, and there's no feedback from people who have zero problems. So it looks worse than it is. And in fact, MS is really great about replacing dead consoles (within warrenty) and will ship you a casket pretty quick, all you do is arrange pickup or take it into a UPS store once you have packaged your 360 according to the (simple) instructions. Wait a few weeks, and you're good.
Post by: FCTE on May 25, 2007, 02:51:00 AM
QUOTE(Trevante @ May 25 2007, 01:19 AM)
To be fair, you have to consider the type of technology used in the SNES and Dreamcast compared to the 360. Obviously when there's more stuff in a system, there's more room to go wrong. Sure MS could make a rock solid system if they made it like the Dreamcast, but then it wouldnt' be as functional as the 360 is would it?
Understandable, but still a cop out answer. I mean........... Come On!......... With all the technology available and cooling options on the market, coupled with Microsoft's virtually unlimited engineering resources and funding you mean to tell me that they could not create a decent cooling feature for a high powered gaming console???
My PC is more "functional" than my 360 and yet I never have to feel like I'm playing it on "borrowed time."
Post by: spodee on May 25, 2007, 04:00:00 AM
Did the article mention how horrible MS xbox customer support has gotten. W/ the original xbox MS was awesome. If something broke MS cross shipped no questions asked and sometimes included small freebies and generally paid for DHL shipping.
To get my 93 day old barely used 360 fixed 3 days outside of 90 day warranty I had to file a BBB complaint which got me an offer for a discounted repair price not including shipping. Upon faxing MS XBOX VP of customer support Richard Kaplan a letter of complaint showing interest in bringing his local TV news KIRO 7 to his office to discuss manufacturing and quality problems w/ the XBOX 360, his secretary suddenly called me and they decided to pay for my refurb if I covered shipping costs also giving me the option again to purchase the extended 2 year warranty which I did.
This is a true story and this process took approximately eight weeks last year. I am an XBOX fan boy. I bought an original XBOX w/in 3 mos. of its original release and purchased three of those decks. I was on LIVE w/in a month of its public availability. I will never buy a SONY product. I am old enough to remember BETA VCR's and DAT and a host of other SONY f/up's. BUT MS HAD BETTER GET THERE S TOGETHER CUZ PEOPLE WON'T PUT UP WITH CRAPPY PRODUCT FOREVER!!
Post by: richbambam on May 25, 2007, 04:31:00 AM
Post by: Avenger 2.0 on May 25, 2007, 05:09:00 AM
Post by: FCTE on May 25, 2007, 05:14:00 AM
QUOTE(spodee @ May 25 2007, 05:36 AM)
BUT MS HAD BETTER GET THERE S TOGETHER CUZ PEOPLE WON'T PUT UP WITH CRAPPY PRODUCT FOREVER!!
Yes they will, it's called Windows. The only operating system that needs at least 3 different crutch applications just to keep it running.
Post by: billygraf on May 25, 2007, 05:47:00 AM
Post by: slunk on May 25, 2007, 06:01:00 AM
I've now bought a macbook and my pc is is running ubuntu. might get a ps3 when more games come out. MS = balls
Post by: Lizard King on May 25, 2007, 06:33:00 AM
I have 9 people in my buddy list. ALL 9 have had to send their units back. I don't care how you try to refute it, more than 2-3% have had problems. You can say all the "you only hear about those with problems", but it's beyond that, almost comical. How are we supposed to proliferate as a community and recoemmend these consoles to others when there is a problem like this? I've been telling people to wait for the 65nm CPU and definitely buy the $60 warranty.
I also find it rediculous the amount of time that you must wait to get the empty box, send it out and have it returned. 3-4 weeks for East Coast. This is a problem they created, not an abuse from the user - better service is a must.
Post by: JCBDigger on May 25, 2007, 06:38:00 AM
QUOTE(biosehnsucht @ May 25 2007, 09:27 AM)
So I guess there's a "problem" but part of it is, every single person goes online and whines when something happens, and there's no feedback from people who have zero problems.
I agree and think that Microsoft can never recover fully from these rumours and the repeated failures many people have had. I know about 6 people with 360's and mine is the only one to fail. Mine was one of the early UK ones they rushed to ship to get in before Christmas 2005, most of the others are at least 6 months newer.
After about 4 months of use mine died. Microsoft was very helpful on the phone and would have swapped it free but expected it to take 2 weeks so I returned it to the shop for an instant exchange. (UK law gives much better protection than US law so we have always had better than 90 days from the retailer although the law does not specify an exact time scale.)
Even if there were never any more failures there would be news reports repeating old news. Microsoft's only real hope is that the PS3 is just as unreliable in it's early days.
I never read PS3 forum's so I have no idea about Sony's reliability.
Faulty or not the xbox360 has the games I want to play and I like the controllers better than the Sony ones. I won't change and I suspect that comparing the reliability of consoles is also low down other gamers choices when they go to buy one.
Post by: hardcandy on May 25, 2007, 06:50:00 AM
But a year after the PS# and Wii have been around and gotten some use, perhaps they will catch up to the 360's reputation.
I am dreading Halo3, I have a feeling the loads caused by extended playing and the newer AI will show any weakness present. Guess, I'll have to run through Oblivion again and see if anything breaks.
Post by: BanditRW on May 25, 2007, 07:07:00 AM
I don't understand why everyone can't resist the urge to condemn a console manufacturer for problems that every game console released has had.The original Playstation suffered from overheating and DRE's,the SCPH-1001 model, but once again I had purchased a Launch Day system that everyone had complained about but I've never had a single problem with it and it is still working today.The same with the Dreamcast where there were many reports of overheating and some units even melting down,but once again my Launch Dreamcast is still going strong.A LOT of these problems are often caused by the end user whether they want to admit it or not and some may not even realize it,course I'm not defending MS..not all the blame rests with the end user...they do have some manufacturing problems they need to address.
As for my PS3 well....things haven't went smoothly.It crashed 3 times while I was trying to go thru the setup and still occasionally exhibits quirky behavior...the main problem being the Bluetooth sync problem with the controller,it will suddenly develop a mind of its own and thats not a good thing in the middle of a firefight,lost count how many times I got axed because the controller wouldn't respond.
Post by: Millenia1x on May 25, 2007, 07:17:00 AM
got another one and that got banned
i got a new motherboard but now i think the dvd drive is dying
might go pick up a wii
Post by: dvsone on May 25, 2007, 07:27:00 AM
a) I used an intercooler for 3-4 weeks and started having 3ROL issues with it and had to rip it off
I open my 360 and accidentally unscrewed the 8 black screws holding the X-Clamps to the bottom of the case.Anyway there obviously is a problem with many 360's. We have identified the problem and so has MS, the only thing they have to do is address the issue in their manufacturing process. The 65nm chips should also help reduce the failure rates.
Post by: MadEx on May 25, 2007, 07:48:00 AM
"360 has some great games, now and coming up but I heard the hardware is mad fucked up"
When someone like he knows that, it's not a good thing for MS.
Post by: avatar1976 on May 25, 2007, 07:56:00 AM
I love the 360 it's a brilliant idea, the practicality of the physical piece of hardware is now quesitonable. I've had to resort to using a towel to fix mine, the $200AUD price tag for MS to fix it is just ridiculous. Especially considering the console was only 2 months out of warranty, I work in IT and most places like HP will normally give you warranty if it's that close to it. 6 months out no way, 2 months maybe type stuff, I got told by the N00B on the xbox support phone that warranty is warranty and
I had to bight my tongue not to reply sh!t service is sh!t service.
What's this X clamp Removable method that I've heard mentioned in here?
Check out the three red light club on xbox.com, I'm telling people to not give them anymore money buy a 360 second hand if you have to, we need to make microsoft hurt here. Unfortunately the only way they're going to listen is if we hurt them where it hurts most, their wallets.
I'm thinking of going so far as to setup a boicot halo3 website until Microsoft acknowledge there terrible hardware and do something about it. I'm beyond reprive now, I think the towel trick should definitely render my warranty invalid but what about the poor mums and dads that have scraped to get their kids the latest in greatest, that's who I want Microsoft to help.
You're dodgy bastards Microsoft and I'm calling you liars, not salesman just dirty stinking filthy liars. I believed all your bullshit about 2-3% failure rate which I attributed to people not setting their consoles up in the best environment (tucked away in a tiny shelf etc), but I've treated my console with the upmost respect and it's never had a day where it's had any of it's vents blocked or anything like that, always good air flow and always kept clean (until having to resort to the towel trick that is). Anyway that's my spleen vented I'm off to bed.
Post by: damam on May 25, 2007, 08:18:00 AM
QUOTE(spodee @ May 24 2007, 11:36 PM)
BUT MS HAD BETTER GET THERE S TOGETHER CUZ PEOPLE WON'T PUT UP WITH CRAPPY PRODUCT FOREVER!!
MS has built an entire empire based on mediocre products that for whatever reason people continue buy. So why would they stop this winning formula now?
I am doubtful that they will do anything to fix this issue And really why should they? so long as we the consumer continue to reward them for shotty work buy buying consoles at rate that exceeds their competitor their is absolutely no reason for them to fix anything.
Post by: running_wild on May 25, 2007, 08:38:00 AM
QUOTE(damam @ May 25 2007, 03:54 PM)
MS has built an entire empire based on mediocre products that for whatever reason people continue buy. So why would they stop this winning formula now?
I am doubtful that they will do anything to fix this issue And really why should they? so long as we the consumer continue to reward them for shotty work buy buying consoles at rate that exceeds their competitor their is absolutely no reason for them to fix anything.
Whatever reason? No, its the best reason - at least from microsoft's standpoint.
They have exactly what any producer would want - completely free third party support - by the millions.
Most programs these days have a windows varient - if not windows dependent. They have a foothold which will no easily be broken - that would require software companies to retrain staff, costing time and money with little to no revenue comming in. All of this to support a product which has a minority of the market share, quite literally a fraction of it. Its not going to happen any time soon.
Post by: richbambam on May 25, 2007, 08:58:00 AM
QUOTE(avatar1976 @ May 25 2007, 03:32 PM)
http://forums.xbox.c...PostID=12716953
I love the 360 it's a brilliant idea, the practicality of the physical piece of hardware is now quesitonable. I've had to resort to using a towel to fix mine, the $200AUD price tag for MS to fix it is just ridiculous. Especially considering the console was only 2 months out of warranty, I work in IT and most places like HP will normally give you warranty if it's that close to it. 6 months out no way, 2 months maybe type stuff, I got told by the N00B on the xbox support phone that warranty is warranty and
I had to bight my tongue not to reply sh!t service is sh!t service.
What's this X clamp Removable method that I've heard mentioned in here?
Check out the three red light club on xbox.com, I'm telling people to not give them anymore money buy a 360 second hand if you have to, we need to make microsoft hurt here. Unfortunately the only way they're going to listen is if we hurt them where it hurts most, their wallets.
I'm thinking of going so far as to setup a boicot halo3 website until Microsoft acknowledge there terrible hardware and do something about it. I'm beyond reprive now, I think the towel trick should definitely render my warranty invalid but what about the poor mums and dads that have scraped to get their kids the latest in greatest, that's who I want Microsoft to help.
You're dodgy bastards Microsoft and I'm calling you liars, not salesman just dirty stinking filthy liars. I believed all your bullshit about 2-3% failure rate which I attributed to people not setting their consoles up in the best environment (tucked away in a tiny shelf etc), but I've treated my console with the upmost respect and it's never had a day where it's had any of it's vents blocked or anything like that, always good air flow and always kept clean (until having to resort to the towel trick that is). Anyway that's my spleen vented I'm off to bed.
Post by: jdsony on May 25, 2007, 09:14:00 AM
I'm not bitter anymore though because I fixed it by replacing the X-Clamps and screwing down the heatsinks. It's been going strong for a few weeks now with a lot of play.
Post by: droideka on May 25, 2007, 09:57:00 AM
It has great games but when i start that thing its always stressful... you never now when its going to happen.
Making things worse they start to ban people. LOL
Well i have lots of friends with 360 and all of them had a problem with the console. some just gave up, and with this strict policy about bans, well more and more are starting to give up as well.
People are saying that its just stupid to go and buy a ps3 to replace the 360. Its not that stupid anymore and with the awesome 1.8 firmware on the ps3. well its just getting closer and closer to the functions of the 360.
I have the 3 "next gen". the one i most enjoy is the 360 but with all this in one year? i dont know but the ps3 is looking more and more like the machine sony promised. Let there be a killer app and bye bye 360. My friend list its starting to migrate from the 360 to the ps3. Slowly but steadly.
Post by: damam on May 25, 2007, 10:13:00 AM
QUOTE(running_wild @ May 25 2007, 04:14 AM)
Whatever reason? No, its the best reason - at least from microsoft's standpoint.
They have exactly what any producer would want - completely free third party support - by the millions.
Most programs these days have a windows varient - if not windows dependent. They have a foothold which will no easily be broken - that would require software companies to retrain staff, costing time and money with little to no revenue comming in. All of this to support a product which has a minority of the market share, quite literally a fraction of it. Its not going to happen any time soon.
and most users these days dont need any of that. All they need is a solid OS, with a word processor, an internet browser, and an email client. corporations have been fooled into thinking they need to buy these products from MS because there is nothing else out there or because of 3rd party support. While I do agree with you that windoze has great 3rd party support, I disagree with you that the average user and small company will ever take advantage of that past the point where it makes sense to not go with linux or a mac. This foothold is all in peoples heads.
the xbox 360 has had fantastic sales. there is no doubt about it. They continue to outsell sony by a fairly large margin. So why should MS change, or try to fix anything? We live in a market driven society, and they have a model that works well. Early adopters of anything MS are bound to feel pain. Its part of their MO, early adopters are the beta testers. We have known this for years. My guess is that MS will finally "fix" this issue, when it makes financial sense to move to 65nm simply by reducing heat output. The funnly thing is that they could easily implement something as simple as RBJTechs shroud mod for nearly nothing (its just molded plastic) and eliminate a good number of these cases all together. But why even do that until it hits them in their pocket book?
Post by: alcame on May 25, 2007, 10:29:00 AM
Post by: kowrip on May 25, 2007, 10:31:00 AM
QUOTE(chuckthefuk @ May 25 2007, 07:21 AM)
Its true.. the word on the street.... If you want good games and a system that will breakdown get a 360. if u want crappy games and a perfect system get a Wii... if you want third degree burns and shotty physics get a PS3.
WORD.
LMAO
Post by: STiCKyiKyBuDz on May 25, 2007, 12:37:00 PM
Post by: Jinkz on May 25, 2007, 12:42:00 PM
Customer service is fantastic, had both of them (when this one comes back) repaired, picked up and sent back to me for free, and the last console I had was a brand new one in the wrapper.
Can't fault them, the first time they replaced it, it was even out of it's 1 year warranty!
Post by: gli7ch on May 25, 2007, 12:59:00 PM
QUOTE(richbambam @ May 25 2007, 11:34 AM)
Just how feel m8
as mines broke think I'll end up resorting to scamiing a big chain store as they have some nice return policys here done it b4
what I'll end up doing is going out & buying a new xbox360 from say TESCO,get back home with my shiny new xbox360,then put my 3rlod Knackered xbox360 nicely back in the wrapping then a few hours later return to the store & just give them some bull about getting home & console is faulty not loading any games etc,& ask for a exchange (if i feel real cheeky may ask for a refund)show receipt that it was only purchased 3 hours earlier,99 times out of 100 they will just exchange there & then if they do look in the box very unlikely they will tell as most staff behind a big chain store wont know what there looking for anyway,dont know if any big chain stores have similar policys in AUS or US but in the UK ive done this times when somethings broke,do i feel guilty?,Do I F**K
This is retail fraud, and you are lucky no one has reported you yet, I hear it is alot of time in prison
Post by: ThUgLoVe on May 25, 2007, 01:16:00 PM
i bought my 1st 360 New from walmart around mid jan 06.it died around mid november - 1st december with a video problem(rolling video that looked like only one video plug was in)
i bought my 2nd 360 New from walmart around mid november-1st december 06.it died around may 10th 07 with 3ROL 0020 error.
this time i picked up a used core with 2 games,2 controllers,memory card and intercooler for $250 about a week ago.
Post by: spodee on May 25, 2007, 01:17:00 PM
Post by: avatar1976 on May 25, 2007, 04:34:00 PM
QUOTE(gli7ch @ May 25 2007, 08:35 PM)
This is retail fraud, and you are lucky no one has reported you yet, I hear it is alot of time in prison
I misread what he said there the first time, yeah that's illegal.
Post by: Legendary Badass on May 25, 2007, 05:16:00 PM
Post by: dvsone on May 25, 2007, 05:43:00 PM
QUOTE(slunk @ May 25 2007, 05:36 PM)
QUOTE
The fact is 90% of the problems are fixable via the X-Clamp removable method founded by RBJtech.
This is totally beside the point. I expect games consoles to be maintenance free for at least five years unlike my MR2 Turbo. For the lucky few of us who actually have the balls to do the X-Clamp fix, we can get our 360's working again but at what cost in time/money/stress? For the vast majority of 360 owners, the X-Clamp fix is not an option. These people rely entirely on the warranty which, if their 360 lasts longer than usual, will expire just before they get the 3RLOD.
You totally missed my point. I was saying that the issue has been identified and that there is no excuse for MS not to correct it.
Post by: 0794 on May 25, 2007, 05:57:00 PM
QUOTE(spodee @ May 25 2007, 02:53 PM)
Besides that being fraud RichBamBam in the U.S. the decks are scanned by by their Serial Number through the box and the serial is then printed on the receipt. Any idiot at a store would then check to make sure your returning the same serial numbered deck.
not to condone the behavior or encourage others, but it is not hard to switch the serial stickers...thus making the "idiot" as you mentioned unaware of the fraudulent return...
Post by: philbee on May 25, 2007, 07:03:00 PM
Post by: mik30 on May 25, 2007, 07:43:00 PM
QUOTE(mlapaglia @ May 25 2007, 05:09 AM)
^^ aren't you only going to hear from customers when their product isnt working right?
while i haven't had a broken console (still got a launch system), i'm guessing that there is still problems with others. i think a release from microsoft saying the percentage is being released.
i think one factor could be you never hear from the vast majority of people that never have problems, the same goes for the university of dayton, who gives the university laptops from compal. this specific laptop has great ratings from other users, but at the university all you hear is from the people with problems (even though most of the problems are caused by the user lol).
i do think that the percentage of return is high though, but not as high as other people are saying.
Well, I do have 2 360s and so does my brother and a few of my friends.
All(!) of our 360s have gone broken with the Ring of Death, regardless of the
manufacturing date. So I tell you, you are still sitting in the row.
Do not fool yourself by dreaming about you have got a miraculously
flawless 360. All 360s are produced identically. So all have the same
flaws in respect to the solder quality. As a result of this your 360 must
have this flaw as well. It is just a matter of time when your 360 shows
the Ring of Death.
Post by: mlapaglia on May 25, 2007, 07:49:00 PM
QUOTE(mik30 @ May 25 2007, 10:19 PM)
Well, I do have 2 360s and so does my brother and a few of my friends.
All(!) of our 360s have gone broken with the Ring of Death, regardless of the
manufacturing date. So I tell you, you are still sitting in the row.
Do not fool yourself by dreaming about you have got a miraculously
flawless 360. All 360s are produced identically. So all have the same
flaws in respect to the solder quality. As a result of this your 360 must
have this flaw as well. It is just a matter of time when your 360 shows
the Ring of Death.
if they all were produced exactly alike, which they aren't they already have revisions to them, then wouldn't the all break at the same, or around the same, time? wtf is a miracle machine, mine just hasn't had any problems, and it's been over a year now.
Post by: mik30 on May 25, 2007, 07:54:00 PM
QUOTE(794 @ May 26 2007, 01:33 AM)
MS has already learned from these broken consoles and continues to refine/improve the 360...
Please give us some more of your valuable insight knowledge about
the refine-/improvements which you insinuate Microsoft has
done already.
As far as I know, the production quality of
the 360 has not changed at all since release
date. Even the Elite 360s have the same flaws
and go out of order with the RoD.
I guess that any 360 will develop the RoD
sooner or later. All 360 which are produced
in the current way are sitting in a row to the RoD.
It is just a matter of time to get it...
Post by: droideka on May 25, 2007, 07:54:00 PM
QUOTE(mlapaglia @ May 26 2007, 03:25 AM)
if they all were produced exactly alike, which they aren't they already have revisions to them, then wouldn't the all break at the same, or around the same, time? wtf is a miracle machine, mine just hasn't had any problems, and it's been over a year now.
my first one ran for a full year and a half then one day puff... had it from day 1.
Post by: 0794 on May 25, 2007, 09:06:00 PM
QUOTE(mik30 @ May 25 2007, 09:30 PM)
Please give us some more of your valuable insight knowledge about
the refine-/improvements which you insinuate Microsoft has
done already.
As far as I know, the production quality of the 360 has not changed at all since release
date. Even the Elite 360s have the same flaws and go out of order with the RoD.
I guess that any 360 will develop the RoD sooner or later. All 360 which are produced
in the current way are sitting in a row to the RoD. It is just a matter of time to get it...
well you can start with the pictures of the 360 mobo with the different revisions already...
and then when the 65nm processor is released, you can check again...
or you can just continue to live in your pessimistic world and as you say "It is just a matter of time to get it..." while the rest of us enjoy life and also playing on our 360s...
Post by: SSChevy2001 on May 25, 2007, 10:07:00 PM
Now MS putting epoxy on the board to counter the bending is just stupid. MS refuses to admit the problem and epoxy doesn't cut it. You know as soon as a 360 comes out without the X-Clamps the ROL problems will be solved, and also some lawsuits will be coming to MS.
Post by: mod_me on May 25, 2007, 10:54:00 PM
The fact of the matter is that there is a issue with the hardware in the 360. companys don't extend warrenty for shits and giggles. My question is why don't they fix the problem. it would admit guilt i guess. People would see where improvments were made and that would point out the flaws in the previous design. It pisses people off knowing that they're now making money off the hardware but not improving it. Most of the first mods were cooling related that says something
When they released the elite they should have made these improvments and just said they were advanced assembly techniques made to improve system performance. Than they could have just adopted this "new technology" in all 360 design.
Now it just seems like their trying to keep people happy untill their warrenty runs out. but they're the good guys because they extended your warrenty right lol .Meanwhile there just recycling the same faulty units. just my 2 cents
Post by: Lordscr on May 25, 2007, 11:02:00 PM
QUOTE(billygraf @ May 25 2007, 12:23 PM)
I bought an xbox 360 last march and I am on my 4th xbox 360, after my third one broke I told microsoft that if they didn't give me an xbox 360 elite, I would never buy another microsoft product and they sent me a brand new elite in the box. Every person I know is on atleast there 2nd 360. I would say the failure rate is around 30%
Come on, your full of it, there has never been a situation that MS sent out an elite to any one, for a repair issue.
Post by: jimbobjim on May 26, 2007, 05:35:00 AM
QUOTE(mlapaglia @ May 26 2007, 03:25 AM)
if they all were produced exactly alike, which they aren't they already have revisions to them, then wouldn't the all break at the same, or around the same, time?
Of course not! There are many factors that can push a 360 over the edge. Perhaps if eveyone went and picked up their console off the assembly line at the same time, handled it in the same way, stored it the same way, played the same games for the same amount of time in rooms that were all the excact same temperature then maybe all would die around the same time. The fact of the matter is, there will always be free radicals that will make some consoles last ages and others last two minutes. I totally agree that all 360's are faulty, it's just a matter of time for those of us who have been lucky so far.
Post by: 1nsan3 on May 26, 2007, 07:58:00 AM
fuc* You Bill Gates! you fuc* us, we fuc* you!
Post by: FCTE on May 26, 2007, 08:08:00 AM
QUOTE(1nsan3 @ May 26 2007, 09:34 AM)
he has forgotten about who really got him in the position he is in now. HIS CUSTOMERS!!
You mean Apple? Xerox? PARC? IBM?
That's who he stole from to build the M$ empire.
Post by: ExitRooster on May 26, 2007, 11:45:00 AM
Not to mention - Getting a refurb box - Yea all my content will no longer work without being signed into Live. That's super. Except that right now, my son can play the games, too. Oh wait - He WON'T be able to (unless he's signed in as me)... They need to address that, too. Because I KNOW someone in MS can flip the switch and change the download rights or whatever it's called to be moved to the 'new' refurb unit (not that I've done this yet, of course as I said, but in my readings it's the #1 complaint about not getting YOUR 360 back, and instead someone else's refurb unit).
BAH. Poor business practices. And I'll remember this nextgen time, and look toward Sony or Nintendo with more priority this time. Still don't have a PS3, and torn between just selling off all my 360 stuff for a Sony move. Not thay they are perfect either, mind you (PS2 *IS* bar none, the WORST console, the MOST IN REPAIR console system EVER, keep that in mind). Just so frustrated.
Post by: eastx on May 26, 2007, 01:08:00 PM
Post by: cerealkillajme on May 26, 2007, 01:43:00 PM
I knew it was only a matter of time anyway. Bought it April 7th 2006. MFG was March 2006 something. I'll be doing the Xclamp replacement on this one and most likely fix it though. Still have my linux 360 though
(already did the Xclamp replacement after getting a random ROD on it) Would be nice if M$ addressed the ROD someday
Post by: UltimateNinja9 on May 27, 2007, 09:50:00 AM
Post by: IJTF_Cinder on May 27, 2007, 09:44:00 PM
Class Action Lawsuit
Class Action Lawsuit
Class Action Lawsuit......
There is enough supporting evidence out there, why won't people get together on this and DEMAND satisfaction?
I haven't bought a 360 yet, and I won't until the issues of poor hardware quality are dealt with.
Post by: kensterdotnet on May 27, 2007, 10:11:00 PM
Post by: Mr Invader on May 28, 2007, 12:01:00 AM
As for my luck, its been pretty good. I bought my first 360 in December 2005 and it finally quit in August 2006 (i got my money back
); i still have my second one and i have no problems with it except an occasional guide freeze when i'm loading a level (which is really my fault).As for my friends, only one of them that have a 360 has had to send his in, he's sent his in 3 times. All my other friends haven't even experience as much as one freeze.
I would really like to hear an announcement about the 65nm processors for the 360, so that all this RoD and complaining can quiet down.
Post by: FCTE on May 28, 2007, 08:56:00 AM
QUOTE(Mr Invader @ May 28 2007, 01:37 AM)
I don't see why people curse Bill Gates for their 360s crashing, it's not like he was involved in making the 360's architecture, so stop blaming him for shortfallings.
No he just happens to own the company that created yet another half ass product and customers yet again get the shaft.
QUOTE
And if you hate MS that much and think its going to take over the world someday and kill everyone, then quit wasting your money to support them and shut up.
It has nothing to with that insanely idiotic rant that you have posted, it has to do with constantly creating bad products and treating customers like dirt. They need to be held accountable for what they do and don't do in terms of meeting customer satisfaction. I'm free to enjoy my 360 (until it crashes) and hate on Microsoft all I like. Consumers have a right to hold a company accountable for mistakes........and you can STFU.
QUOTE
As for my luck, its been pretty good. I bought my first 360 in December 2005 and it finally quit in August 2006 (i got my money back ); i still have my second one and i have no problems with it except an occasional guide freeze when i'm loading a level (which is really my fault).
); i still have my second one and i have no problems with it except an occasional guide freeze when i'm loading a level (which is really my fault).Yeah that sounds like some damn amazing "good luck," out of two consoles one has failed completely and both of them still have issues.
QUOTE
As for my friends, only one of them that have a 360 has had to send his in, he's sent his in 3 times. All my other friends haven't even experience as much as one freeze.
Great, now take that same scale and use it globally on all of the people in the world who own a 360. That's going to be quite a signifigant failure rate, but I doubt you'd consider it because somehow you seem to think 2 out of 2 console defects is "good luck."
QUOTE
I would really like to hear an announcement about the 65nm processors for the 360, so that all this RoD and complaining can quiet down.
Funny how that pans out, you fix the problems with your products, they stop failing, and people stop complaining.
Post by: Mr Invader on May 28, 2007, 01:35:00 PM
QUOTE(FCTE @ May 28 2007, 10:32 AM)
No he just happens to own the company that created yet another half ass product and customers yet again get the shaft.
I agree that the 360 could be better (as all things could) but to call it a half-ass product? If it's so horrible then how come its still being bought? How come people are still getting them replaced and playing them instead of going out to buy a PS3 or Wii? How are over 10 million of them sold? You have one bizarre definition of "half-ass product".
QUOTE
It has nothing to with that insanely idiotic rant that you have posted, it has to do with constantly creating bad products and treating customers like dirt. They need to be held accountable for what they do and don't do in terms of meeting customer satisfaction. I'm free to enjoy my 360 (until it crashes) and hate on Microsoft all I like. Consumers have a right to hold a company accountable for mistakes
Do you expect them to come over to your house, give you a hug, and paint your nails? I don't know your experience with Xbox tech support, and respectfully i don't care. I can speak for me and those i have talked to whose xboxes have broken down; the person on the phone didnt treat us like dirt, they at least pretended to care about our situation which made us less frustrated, and when all of it was said and done we all had a re-furbished console on our doorstep in about a week. I guess I'm not pampered enough to consider that crappy customer service.
And how exactly are you going to hold a company accountable for doing something they don't even have to do in the first place? Certainly by complaining to others that have no connections with the company.
QUOTE
........and you can STFU.
How nice
QUOTE
Yeah that sounds like some damn amazing "good luck," out of two consoles one has failed completely and both of them still have issues.
Compared to those who have had to send theirs in 4 and 5 times? The games on my 360 don't freeze, but my guide freezes while i'm in it and loading a map or level, and therefore wont let me get out of my guide. I do consider it good luck, i have a working next-gen console that I got replaced for free; while some had theres break a couple months after buying it.
QUOTE
Great, now take that same scale and use it globally on all of the people in the world who own a 360. That's going to be quite a signifigant failure rate, but I doubt you'd consider it because somehow you seem to think 2 out of 2 console defects is "good luck."
Theres a term called "Hasty generalization" and I think you just nailed it on the head.
QUOTE
Funny how that pans out, you fix the problems with your products, they stop failing, and people stop complaining.
Hilarious...........
Post by: sunkist09 on May 28, 2007, 02:47:00 PM
Post by: FCTE on May 28, 2007, 05:00:00 PM
QUOTE(Mr Invader @ May 28 2007, 03:11 PM)
I agree that the 360 could be better (as all things could) but to call it a half-ass product? If it's so horrible then how come its still being bought? How come people are still getting them replaced and playing them instead of going out to buy a PS3 or Wii? How are over 10 million of them sold? You have one bizarre definition of "half-ass product".
An average consumer buying them today assume that they work well and that any bugs have been worked out, well they haven't. I wouldn't consider one brand new console on the market still building a decent gaming library and another console that is not even in direct competition with the 360 valid alternatives. And a great majority of replacements are under warranty, not out of the consumers pocket.
QUOTE
Do you expect them to come over to your house, give you a hug, and paint your nails? I don't know your experience with Xbox tech support, and respectfully i don't care. I can speak for me and those i have talked to whose xboxes have broken down; the person on the phone didnt treat us like dirt, they at least pretended to care about our situation which made us less frustrated, and when all of it was said and done we all had a re-furbished console on our doorstep in about a week. I guess I'm not pampered enough to consider that crappy customer service.
No, I expect a console that doesn't break down after minimal use, period. I shouldn't have to get it fixed, it should work.............and no I don't consider giving me somone elses crappy refurbed system that most likely is not in the pristine condition I keep mine in a "replacement." A replacement should be equal to the product you purchased, ie. brand new.
QUOTE
And how exactly are you going to hold a company accountable for doing something they don't even have to do in the first place?
What don't they have to do? Make a product that isn't a lemon? Back it under warranty? Yes, they are bound by law. When you sell a product that is a defective piece of shit and promise it to be a great reliable gaming experience and do not fix the problems that is fraud. Getting it replaced once from some manufacturing defect or normal wear and tear would be completely acceptable, this is a design flaw in all the boxes. Many 360 owners don't give a crap if MS replaces them 14 times, you are out of a gaming console and heavily inconvienced for that time frame that it is not in your posession, that is not normal, even if you cosider this service "lucky."
QUOTE
Compared to those who have had to send theirs in 4 and 5 times? The games on my 360 don't freeze, but my guide freezes while i'm in it and loading a map or level, and therefore wont let me get out of my guide. I do consider it good luck, i have a working next-gen console that I got replaced for free; while some had theres break a couple months after buying it.
Hey if you like owning a defective piece of sh!t even though you paid to have a working console that's your deal. If you like the fact and consider it "lucky" that certain features and aspects of your console don't even work and you accept this as normal more power to you. Other 360 owners want a fully working unit, because that's what they paid for and are expecting.
QUOTE
Theres a term called "Hasty generalization" and I think you just nailed it on the head.
Hilarious...........
Hilarious...........
Call it whatever you want, the amount of failures has been deemed unacceptable and its being published and MS has an obligation to correct the problem.
Post by: jimbobjim on May 28, 2007, 05:57:00 PM
QUOTE(sunkist09 @ May 28 2007, 10:23 PM)
yeah i know ppl whove been through 10+ systems since release.
10+!!!
Some people are completely insane. To go through 10 systems and still keep going is nothing short of stupid, and it's because of these exact people that M$ are still selling crap. Repairs alone are probably a big source of revenue for them.
Post by: Mr Invader on May 28, 2007, 08:12:00 PM
QUOTE(FCTE @ May 28 2007, 06:36 PM)
I'm gonna stop, we'll be going around in circles in this discussion/argument forever. You obviously have a very secure opinion and I have mine, so theres no point. It was fun arguing
, but its done.Post by: Boiker on May 29, 2007, 04:15:00 AM
I agree though, the period where early adopters will buy is coming to an end, now other consumers need to be hit. These are the ones that will weigh up the pros and cons of a 360 vs. PS3 and make a choice. The problems of the 360 are well known now so I really hope something is done. Not because I want a working console (I have one!) but because I want to see the 360 take the trophy
I was thinking. We know the Elite has a different mobo, are these failing left, right and centre like the Cores and Premiums?
Post by: cerealkillajme on May 29, 2007, 07:02:00 AM
QUOTE(Boiker @ May 29 2007, 05:51 AM)
I was thinking. We know the Elite has a different mobo, are these failing left, right and centre like the Cores and Premiums?
DAY OLD ELITE DIES!!!
^^^^ That's sad ^^^^
BTW, fixed my 360 that died (stated it died on page 6)
Quite sad M$ didn't take the chance with the Elite to fix their manufacturing defect.
Post by: eyric101 on May 29, 2007, 11:57:00 AM
QUOTE(Mystakill @ May 29 2007, 02:28 PM)
What's even worse is having to deal with Microsoft's "Service Contract" (I've quoted it since it's a bit of a farce). Two weeks after calling in dead Xbox 360 #3, I'm awaiting a second coffin. UPS was kind enough to crush the first empty coffin, so I called "support" (again with the quotes...) and requested a second coffin. Am I the only one who thinks shipping an empty box *with any shipper* isn't a good idea?
A week passed and no coffin arrived, so I called and was told that it was never shipped. Their solution? Close the first ticket and open a new one so that I could get a another coffin. I called back today, they haven't shipped a coffin for the second time even after opening the new ticket. This is typical of the pattern that started when my second 360 died -- if you have any issue with support, they close your ticket and open a new one, thus putting you further back in the queue.
This doesn't even begin to address the DRM issue concerning XBLM content after a console is replaced (regardless of the how or why it was replaced). My family got locked out of all of the XBLA games and themes that we had purchased on 360 #2 for *two months* before I got fed up and sicced the BBB on Microsoft.
Looks like I'll be filing another BBB complaint today...
A week passed and no coffin arrived, so I called and was told that it was never shipped. Their solution? Close the first ticket and open a new one so that I could get a another coffin. I called back today, they haven't shipped a coffin for the second time even after opening the new ticket. This is typical of the pattern that started when my second 360 died -- if you have any issue with support, they close your ticket and open a new one, thus putting you further back in the queue.
This doesn't even begin to address the DRM issue concerning XBLM content after a console is replaced (regardless of the how or why it was replaced). My family got locked out of all of the XBLA games and themes that we had purchased on 360 #2 for *two months* before I got fed up and sicced the BBB on Microsoft.
Looks like I'll be filing another BBB complaint today...
I have the same problem with my xbla games. I had the store replace my 360 and now since I don't have the original 360 recipt they won't do anything for me. I hate logging into live to play my xbla games. DAMNIT
Post by: ikecomp on May 29, 2007, 02:24:00 PM
Here's my question though. I bought a busted 3ROL 360 with the seal intact off of ebay that I planned to do the x-clamp mod on but decided to check out something someone said on these forums a while back. They said that the actual warranty doesn't kick in until you register your 360 with MS. So I registered it at xbox.com and sure enough when I checked its status, it said "Still In-Warranty" (Now there is no way this machine should still be in warranty since it was manufactured way back in Nov 2005) I was caught off guard by this so I called the xbox repair center to confirm this and they said yes, it shows as still being under warranty and they are willing to fix it or send me another in its place....free of charge.
I just wanted to know if anyone else has had or heard of a similar experience where a 360 was still under warranty when it shouldn't be? and does the warranty start at the actual date of registration (regardless of purchase date)?
Post by: spinr34 on May 29, 2007, 04:51:00 PM
Post by: Mr Invader on May 29, 2007, 11:37:00 PM
QUOTE(cerealkillajme @ May 29 2007, 08:38 AM)
DAY OLD ELITE DIES!!!
Quite sad M$ didn't take the chance with the Elite to fix their manufacturing defect.
I wonder what the defect rate for th elite is. I haven't heard much about them braking. Anyone know anything about this?
QUOTE
i do not see why you all are upset about the DRM situation. it makes sense and all you have to do is be logged into live. i don't get what is so difficult about that. what damage is logging into live going to cause you? although, at the same time, i do agree that if you get your console replaced by MS that they should xfer purchased content to the replaced machine. there has to be a way for them to do it and that should be automatically done when you are sent a replacement console. however, logging onto live isn't that difficult at the same time.
Some people aren't always able to connect to the internet when they want to play their 360.
Hopefully at E3 we will hear something about MS addressing these problems (there seems to be enough fuss about it for them to do something) along with giving us an announcement about the 65nm processors *crosses fingers*
Post by: 23r0c001 on June 01, 2007, 06:09:00 PM