Post by: DOS4GW on May 05, 2004, 06:54:00 AM
Post by: SS-Funk on May 05, 2004, 07:10:00 AM
Post by: DOS4GW on May 05, 2004, 07:22:00 AM
Post by: DIE-HARD on May 05, 2004, 07:23:00 AM
on the genre thing, I do think the genre's confuse people. all people want to do is see a game(arena) join it and play
not go to 3rd person shooters and wonder where SCPT is <-- 1 confusion i hear lots of!
Post by: chilin_dude on May 05, 2004, 07:35:00 AM
Post by: DOS4GW on May 05, 2004, 07:42:00 AM
| QUOTE (DIE-HARD @ May 5 2004, 04:23 PM) |
| i think the size of the UI for rc2 was nicer, but i dont think the usage with kai is any harder. on the genre thing, I do think the genre's confuse people. all people want to do is see a game(arena) join it and play not go to 3rd person shooters and wonder where SCPT is <-- 1 confusion i hear lots of! |
ya, thats what I ment.
Post by: dfunked on May 05, 2004, 07:24:00 PM
With the new UI, tracking where users are is incredibly easy now....
Nobody wants to scroll through 50 or so XBox titles (and more coming), just to get to what they want...
Post by: f.u. on May 05, 2004, 07:39:00 PM
I find it a bit tedious going through so many chioces just to get to the game I want. Maybe have a favourites list where users can list only games they have.
Post by: dfunked on May 05, 2004, 08:49:00 PM
You'd start to see delays while the Orbitals try to keep up.
Post by: f.u. on May 05, 2004, 09:27:00 PM
I was just throwing out some ideas. Once I got used to it, it didn't bother me too much. Just the first few times was confusing really (I was just concerned about the first impression your app might give ppl since your trying to get xbc ppl to convert). I was used to XBC and was looking for the join or host buttons. But now I know how to use it, XLink Kai is great. On XBC, you have to click join before your xbox can detect the game. On XLink Kai, you enter the arena and thats it. You'll detect any games being hosted and select the host you want to join all from your xbox! Amazing. If their aren't any but there are people there, you can quickly host a game easily but selecting host from the game. It's really as simple as that. Non of that messy business of clikcing host on XBC, selecting how many people you would like on your xbox and all that. Thats one of the features I really like, being able to host a game straight after a host shuts his server down, although I get the feeling people dont know how to host somtimes. I go in a room with quite a few people and no game is being hosted. To be honest, I only started using XLink Kai since yesterday since you hear rumours its harder to set up than XBC. For me, I don't know how to forwards port and all that so that kinda scared me off a little but luckily, I didn't have to set it up. It's as easy to set up as XBC, even easier in fact.
Even though I get the feeling more people are gonna like the list of game over arena, if it means delaying the release or slowing the servers down then forget the list of games.
Post by: taz1975uk on May 06, 2004, 12:06:00 AM
although some games dont fit into the normal patten and are hard to fit into a specific genre.
there are some games that are the only one of there type may be best off rethinking where they go, rather than have a sub arena with only one game.
ie. Crimson Skies (flying) , Yu Gi Oh (Trading Card Game), Conen (fighting)
perhaps these 3 games could be in the root dir, of xbox or in a misc. arena.
as far as the Splinter Cell problem (3rd vs 1st person)
perhaps Tom Clancy games deserve there own arena, off the root.
arenas/xbox/Tom Clancy/Rainbow Six 3
arenas/xbox/Tom Clancy/Splinter Cell:Pandora Tomorrow
etc...
also some categories have games in them that no one plays any more.
perhaps we could help the orbitals out by gouping them into a another sub category.
arenas/xbox/driving/others/motogp
arenas/xbox/third person shooters/others/brute force
arenas/xbox/third person shooters/others/wacked
etc.
also the others arena could be used to play system link games that have been released but we havent got around to creating an arena yet.
then they wont be on the main game list for that genre.
and may mean that we can mearge the first and third person shooters into one arena.
however at the end of the day, as long as we can find the correct arena for the game we want to play we can then go back to the xbox, and then find/host a game.
Post by: flat235 on May 06, 2004, 12:22:00 AM
TD
Post by: taz1975uk on May 06, 2004, 12:33:00 AM
| QUOTE (dfunked @ May 6 2004, 09:22 AM) |
| Must remember it's not all about the XBox now too |
yep sorry.
bad Taz, start thinking Global.
Post by: DIE-HARD on May 06, 2004, 05:20:00 AM
I have a diffrent solution to consider,
Wouldent it be easyer to just make a "Shooters" arena and not one for 1st and one for 3rd?
i dont think we should move old games out of arenas though, imo the fewer arenas the less confusion.
Should have my MK DD and 1080 tomorrow, then i can get a feel of what the GC scene will have to look forward to.
I can't wait till Evo 7. It is going to rock!!!
Post by: DOS4GW on May 06, 2004, 05:36:00 AM
| QUOTE (taz1975uk @ May 6 2004, 09:06 AM) |
| I like the fact that games are grouped together with simaler games. although some games dont fit into the normal patten and are hard to fit into a specific genre. there are some games that are the only one of there type may be best off rethinking where they go, rather than have a sub arena with only one game. ie. Crimson Skies (flying) , Yu Gi Oh (Trading Card Game), Conen (fighting) perhaps these 3 games could be in the root dir, of xbox or in a misc. arena. as far as the Splinter Cell problem (3rd vs 1st person) perhaps Tom Clancy games deserve there own arena, off the root. arenas/xbox/Tom Clancy/Rainbow Six 3 arenas/xbox/Tom Clancy/Splinter Cell:Pandora Tomorrow etc... also some categories have games in them that no one plays any more. perhaps we could help the orbitals out by gouping them into a another sub category. arenas/xbox/driving/others/motogp arenas/xbox/third person shooters/others/brute force arenas/xbox/third person shooters/others/wacked etc. also the others arena could be used to play system link games that have been released but we havent got around to creating an arena yet. then they wont be on the main game list for that genre. and may mean that we can mearge the first and third person shooters into one arena. however at the end of the day, as long as we can find the correct arena for the game we want to play we can then go back to the xbox, and then find/host a game. |
With all those dirs one will have to use a lot of time just finding the games! The easiest and most managble way to make this is just a long list of the games. No looking, joining, parting, just look down the list and find the game you're looking for.
Post by: jz28 on May 06, 2004, 06:23:00 AM
so far the poll shows otherwise df, that people DONT like them. i myself, just look at it from the "new user" perspective...even rc2 was not like this, because you could turn the "sorting" off. and i did on every install i helped with or did myself.
its confusing, and personally i see no reason why anyone would actually host a game in "xbox' or "driving".
and i really have to disagree with taz, that will make things even more confusing.
think about it, someone just wants to play, and not have to navigate with 10 clicks to get to teh game they want to play.
popular or not, people are going to play what they want, and not go to a game just because others are playing it, tho thats a huge factor. they are going to play what is fun and new mostly all the time...usually they only look for numbers AFTER they see no one playing the game they WANT to play, and thats after they even find it.
we see this every time a new syslink game comes out.
for the record tho, i dont care how many people are playing what, i just want to play the games that i like, my favorite games, and i dont like to look at all the games i dont own, or have to sort through them.
I think that new users just want to get to the game they want to play also, and tho every app is different and has a learning curve, "most word processing apps" look pretty much the same. obviously a tunnel isnt like a word proc. app, but its the same thing.
there are lots of things we can do to make it easier on new users, but most of all, we have to take into account what everyone is used to, and have something that is somewhat intuitive.
Post by: taz1975uk on May 06, 2004, 06:33:00 AM
| QUOTE (DOS4GW @ May 6 2004, 02:36 PM) |
| With all those dirs one will have to use a lot of time just finding the games! The easiest and most managble way to make this is just a long list of the games. No looking, joining, parting, just look down the list and find the game you're looking for. |
atm there is 70+ games that you will be able to play on kai. (once PS2 support goes online)
its got to be easier to break them down into manageble categories.
i do agree that the quicker and easier it is to find the game arena that you want the better.
also once kai 7 gets released you will see benefits to having it structured this way, as you will be able to tell at a glance how many people are playing a certain type of game on that console.
ie. if you want to see how many people are playing sports games on the xbox, you can tell by sitting in arena's xbox and you will see the most popular category, then you can expand on that by entering the sports category and see what sports game is being played the most at the moment.
This information may help choose what game to buy next.
perhaps we could ask nintendo, sony and MS to advertise xlink as it helps sell units 
the information would certainly help me in deciding what type of tournament to run next. (no point running a tourney when theres no one playing)
Post by: taz1975uk on May 06, 2004, 06:39:00 AM
| QUOTE (jz28 @ May 6 2004, 03:23 PM) |
| and i really have to disagree with taz, that will make things even more confusing. |
i think your right it would.
some of my sugestions in earlier post would make it more confusing for a new user.
I personaly can see pro's and cons for both sides.
List of all games.
pro. Less clicks, quicker access
con. too much information.
Different categories
pro. Clean and structured.
con. takes a little bit more time.
Post by: jz28 on May 06, 2004, 07:01:00 AM
| QUOTE (taz1975uk @ May 6 2004, 10:39 AM) |
| i think your right it would. some of my sugestions in earlier post would make it more confusing for a new user. I personaly can see pro's and cons for both sides. List of all games. pro. Less clicks, quicker access con. too much information. Different categories pro. Clean and structured. con. takes a little bit more time. |
yeah i definately agree taz, and i know that in the end, there just isnt the time for any restructuring...I brought it up a bit earlier, but its a difference in opinion.
I do hear from users tho everyday (new users) that its confusing, hence why i even bother to discuss it.
I think to grab a bit of the group of players, we have to not only be super innovative (TD wins hands down), but also have a bit of familiarity, so that the users can EASILY pick up kai and know what to do, without having to consult with dfunkeds fine new web site for support, but instead only consult with it for cool xlink news
Post by: jz28 on May 06, 2004, 08:17:00 AM
Post by: DOS4GW on May 06, 2004, 08:17:00 AM
| QUOTE (taz1975uk @ May 6 2004, 03:33 PM) |
| atm there is 70+ games that you will be able to play on kai. (once PS2 support goes online) its got to be easier to break them down into manageble categories. i do agree that the quicker and easier it is to find the game arena that you want the better. also once kai 7 gets released you will see benefits to having it structured this way, as you will be able to tell at a glance how many people are playing a certain type of game on that console. ie. if you want to see how many people are playing sports games on the xbox, you can tell by sitting in arena's xbox and you will see the most popular category, then you can expand on that by entering the sports category and see what sports game is being played the most at the moment. This information may help choose what game to buy next. perhaps we could ask nintendo, sony and MS to advertise xlink as it helps sell units the information would certainly help me in deciding what type of tournament to run next. (no point running a tourney when theres no one playing) |
Ye, not all games for all consols on the root, but all xbox games on viewalbe direct in the xbox folder, and so for the other consoles also..
All games for all consols directly on the root folder would be a disaster, like a game witch is for (gamecube), ps2, and xbox. How to know witch one to select for your consol?
Naa, gamelist in the consol-folder would be the perfect thing i think.
Post by: jz28 on May 06, 2004, 08:22:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| > It's only my UI which needs ppl to nav down - others could make a UI with just a straight list. |
If this is the case, wouldnt this still cause problems with orbs?
Post by: DIE-HARD on May 06, 2004, 08:33:00 AM
Post by: DOS4GW on May 06, 2004, 08:34:00 AM
| QUOTE (flat235 @ May 6 2004, 04:33 PM) |
| > You are able to mark arenas as "Favourites" - and nav to them with 1 click. |
That would be real helpfull independent to it beeing a list or in folders.
Post by: taz1975uk on May 07, 2004, 02:35:00 AM
| QUOTE (permarco @ May 6 2004, 08:08 PM) |
| if you are worried about orbital load with an huge list of game you can implement a sort of A-D, E-H ... subdivisions, obviously maintaining also the "old" category division ... |
not a bad idea, but i see a problem to start with.
some games are known by different names in different countries.
for instance. DTM Race driver 2 is also known as TocA Race Driver 2
if you have the game you probably know that its called either DTM or ToCa and xlink is going to display it as either one or the other or maybe somthing else like Race Driver 2.
so to initaly find the room they may have to check under D, T and R before finding the correct arena,
while if they go to driving, they will spot the arena they want straight away.
other games may be know by differnt titles in other countries.
Rainbow Six 3 may be known "as el arco iris seis 3" in spain or "l'arc-en-ciel six 3" in France.
obviously people who speak thease languages are aware that the titles are in English, but that may mess up UI's that are based in a different language.
Post by: taz1975uk on May 07, 2004, 04:08:00 AM
| QUOTE (boxorox @ May 7 2004, 12:32 PM) |
| Can anyone tell me if we will be able to see how many players are in an arena before entering it? |
it will.
im not sure exactly shure if it shows.
# of xtags in that arena
or
# of consoles in that arena.
but you will be able to get a good idea to how many players are in the arena.
also it will show whos in the sub-arenas.
so if you look at halo.
you will see how many people are in there in total.
go into the arena, and you can tell how many of these are in pal and ntsc arenas.
Post by: dfunked on May 07, 2004, 08:24:00 AM