Post by: shanafan on July 09, 2003, 08:44:00 PM
So I get monthly Live surveys that I take to tell MS how I feel about Live. However, the last one I got, the page didn't load correctly, and then it did, but it said I already took the survery. So I called MS to ask about it.
MS said I was outta luck with the survery.
But, more importantly, MS will charge your Live account $50 on the date a year from when you activated the kit. Like for me, I will get charged $49.99 on November 15, 2003 for the next year of Live.
If I want to change to a monthly basis, I think it was $4.99, I would have to call them and tell them (what the hell?) Live will not ask "Do you wish to contine the service?" It will just re-charge your account.
MS then asked for my ISP. I told him Comcast. Then, I asked him about when I first activated Live to inquire about my billing date, and he asked what is my gamertag. I said "shanafan" and he said, under his breathe, "this is interesting". (What?)
He started to type away fast and I asked him about the new Xbox Live Aware (automatically connects to Live when your Xbox boots) and he gave a very short answer saying its coming but wouldn't really tell me how it works. Even though I knew anyways
Finally, I asked him about the new MS dash coming this Fall that is Live-fitted and he basically said you will recieve a Live update sometime this Fall which is the new dash. Again, not really enough information to satisfy me.
Anyways, that was my call. I still wonder what the "this is interesting..." comment was about.
Post by: erexx on July 09, 2003, 08:56:00 PM
that you were banned and then... "unbanned" with same gamer tag
how could they tell you changed your eeprom... wouldnt it just look like a totally diff. xbox?
Post by: shanafan on July 09, 2003, 09:04:00 PM
| QUOTE (erexx @ Jul 10 2003, 12:56 AM) |
| you think they can see your history? that you were banned and then... "unbanned" with same gamer tag how could they tell you changed your eeprom... wouldnt it just look like a totally diff. xbox? |
Yeah, it would just say (probably) that my account is being used from like 4 different Xboxes
Post by: Achtung on July 10, 2003, 07:06:00 AM
Post by: mrRobinson on July 10, 2003, 07:46:00 AM
Post by: TacoBalls on July 10, 2003, 08:02:00 AM
Post by: shanafan on July 10, 2003, 12:41:00 PM
| QUOTE (Achtung @ Jul 10 2003, 11:06 AM) |
| If you use two HD one for back ups, and the original untouched for live and swap back and forth there isnt anything to worry about. However if you dont I could see it causing some trouble at first but being solved very shortly after it launches if it even becomes any type of a problem. |
There is still the modchip issue. Some people may forget to turn it off
Post by: PerfectModifications on July 10, 2003, 01:19:00 PM
Post by: shanafan on July 10, 2003, 01:25:00 PM
| QUOTE (PerfectModifications @ Jul 10 2003, 05:19 PM) |
| Wait, are you saying that if I have, say a 120gb WD Hard Drive in my xbox, i probably will get screwed over by this new "Xbox live aware" stuff? And how is this supposed to be corrected "so fast", like Atchung says it will be?????? |
There is not a way yet to disable Live Aware as its not out yet.
Post by: MeNaCe911 on July 10, 2003, 03:30:00 PM
Post by: echto on July 10, 2003, 05:08:00 PM
But then again the Live Aware games could connect using some sort of generic login just for the hell of it. If a generic login is used I'm sure a network analyser could be used to find the login and password info. Wouldn't it be fun to send bogus info to the servers!
As for Live Aware I can't see why something like this wouldn't stir up a watch dog group or something. This easily could be considered an invasion of privacy. Will there be some sort of EULA printed out when you purchase a Live Aware game that states "By purchasing this game you agree to let MS know exactly when you play it.". I think for the consumers there should be an option to enable or disable Live Aware. We all remember the stink about the CPU serial numbers and how that was considered an invasion of privacy. An option was inserted in bioses to enable or disable the CPU serial number.
Post by: Loranga on July 11, 2003, 01:49:00 AM
| QUOTE (shanafan @ Jul 10 2003, 05:44 AM) |
| I said "shanafan" and he said, under his breathe, "this is interesting". (What?) |
Now we got proof that MS visit this forum
Post by: Nathan561 on July 11, 2003, 05:34:00 AM
| QUOTE (Achtung @ Jul 11 2003, 02:28 PM) | ||
Here is my prediction on how to dissable live aware on start up: Keep your network cable unpluged. was that fast enough? |
Yea that sounds all well and good.... unless it includes OFFLINE modchip detection, like the current live dashboard is rumoured to have..
Then we really are all screwed, if you have the modchip on and the cable unplugged, live aware will see the modchip no matter what you do. As shanafan says, its as soon as you turn the xbox on, then as soon as you connect to live.. you're banned.
Man this would suck.. I guess I'd have to go and buy a xbox for live like other people
Post by: Achtung on July 11, 2003, 05:37:00 AM
| QUOTE (Nathan561 @ Jul 11 2003, 02:34 PM) | ||||
Yea that sounds all well and good.... unless it includes OFFLINE modchip detection, like the current live dashboard is rumoured to have.. Then we really are all screwed, if you have the modchip on and the cable unplugged, live aware will see the modchip no matter what you do. As shanafan says, its as soon as you turn the xbox on, then as soon as you connect to live.. you're banned. Man this would suck.. I guess I'd have to go and buy a xbox for live like other people |
Not if you use two HD, your upgraded one for backup and original for live. Your modded HD will have no Live accounts or live info so there isnt anyway to get banned. The only risk you have is remembering to shut off your Mod chip with the original HD, and that is a risk you run now nothing new.
as for offline modchip protection, thats BS how is live aware going to see your modcip offline, without even sending and recieving data with your xbox to tell it what your running or even detecting a connection. The only way (My opinion) live can ever ban you is recieving data from your xbox that you are running a modded bios which can only ever be seen if you actually connect to live and it is written to check and recieves that info just as it checks to see what version of live you are using, thus prompting you with updates to newer versions. Live doesnt know before connecting that it needs a update, the network tells it that it does its the sameway with modchips. And I believe shanafan ment when he said that as soon as you turn the xbox on, that it is going to connect to live so if you are running a modchip and its on you will be banned because it is sending that info, not because live aware checks for it offline.
Post by: bebrewer1 on July 11, 2003, 08:10:00 AM
Think it would be possible for the 'aware' dash to see what the current MS bios can not see?
Post by: PerfectModifications on July 11, 2003, 01:41:00 PM
Post by: bebrewer1 on July 12, 2003, 01:04:00 PM
Post by: PerfectModifications on July 12, 2003, 01:20:00 PM
| QUOTE (bebrewer1 @ Jul 12 2003, 10:04 PM) |
| but do you really need 2 xbox's if you can boot from the 'F' partition for evox when your modchip is on or booting from 'C' with the retail bios that can't see the 'F' partition? until i see evidence to the contrary that this works for the new version of the live dashboard, i'll have to assume that it does. |
Yeah, that would be AWESOME. I really don't want to have 2 xbox's or have to switch between HD's. It just totally detracts from the whole "experience", if you know what I mean.
Post by: skierdb526 on July 12, 2003, 11:17:00 PM
Post by: brienj on July 16, 2003, 06:50:00 PM
Post by: Videogamebuyer14 on July 16, 2003, 07:15:00 PM
Post by: Clownwipe on July 16, 2003, 07:27:00 PM
| QUOTE (shanafan @ Jul 10 2003, 04:41 PM) |
| There is still the modchip issue. Some people may forget to turn it off |
I was thinking about this, and it would be no big deal at all to make a "one or the other" solution.
Just get a knob and build a little cat5/modchip-toggle box. You turn the knob right, it completes the modchip circuit and breaks the connection on one (or more) of the wires from the cat5. Turn the knob left, it breaks the modchip toggle and completes the ethernet. Use a knob with a decent resistance and you'll have zero "oops"ies.
I'm not sure what the ethernet connector on the mobo looks like, but I'd imagine it would be easiest to have the selector as a seperate box. xbox - cat5 - selector box - cat5 - router/internet/etc. You would also have the modchip enable wire running outside the box too. It'd be pretty damn unsightly, but it would work and you wouldn't do anything by accident.
That does change the "spies while its offline, reports while its online" issue. One at a time..
Post by: Clownwipe on July 16, 2003, 07:30:00 PM
| QUOTE (brienj @ Jul 16 2003, 10:50 PM) |
| Is everybody forgeting one little thing, who the hell actually boots up into the MS dashboard when their Mod Chip is turned on? If the MS dashboard is not run, it can't detect your Mod Chip is on. LOL The rumors just get bigger and bigger. |
True, but if you have XBox Live, then you have broadband and are online. If you have broadband and are online with XBL, there is no reason at all not to have the latest dash. Continuing, if /everyone/ on XBL will have this new dash, games can require that they be launched from that dash. (Or whatever scheme they come up with.)
Moral of the story is that it'll definately be a back and forth battle.
I'll probably end up just getting a used/refurb/whatever cheapo just to have "stock."
Post by: brienj on July 16, 2003, 08:02:00 PM
Ok, I will spell it out for you.
Lets say I have a modchip with a BIOS that loads Evox at bootup (Even Evox on the C: drive applies here) and I have a switch to turn the mod chip off so the MS BIOS will load.
Ok, everybody still with me. Good.
Scenario 1:
Well, I turn off the mod chip and turn on the Xbox, the Xbox will load the supposedly upcoming updated dash and it searches for a modified BIOS, and it detects the MS BIOS, so it passes the check, no flags are set, NO ban. This of course would not apply to the people that don't have a mod chip and use the font exploits and complex loaders and other crap because they are too cheap to get the reliable mod chip.
Scenario 2:
Well, I turn on the mod chip and turn on the Xbox, the Xbox will load Evox, totally bypassing the supposedly upcoming updated dash and Evox does not search for a modified BIOS, there is no detecting of your BIOS, there is no check, no flags are set, NO ban.
Scenario 3:
Game wants to only be run from the supposedly upcoming updated dash. Insert game with Evox running, making sure that auto launch of DVD is off, xbcopy to the HD, apply the patch that will be available within a week from some gracious hacker so you can play the new game without it wanting to run the supposedly upcoming updated dash. You can play your hacked game all you want from the HD or burn it to DVD if you prefer. As in the previous scenarios, you are still NOT banned from Live.
That's it, thank you in advance if you actually read the post and followed it through logically then you can come to the conclusion it doesn't $^$%#&&* matter if they update the %%^$%&^% dashboard! END OF STORY!!!
Post by: mrRobinson on July 16, 2003, 08:17:00 PM
| QUOTE (brienj @ Jul 17 2003, 12:02 AM) |
| That's it, thank you in advance if you actually read the post and followed it through logically then you can come to the conclusion it doesn't $^$%#&&* matter if they update the %%^$%&^% dashboard! END OF STORY!!! |
I didn't read through every post to see what your yellin about but isn't it possible for the MS dash to check and see if you aren't using the original hdd? I dont see that as being something too hard for them to implement...
So... scenario:
mod chip off but 120GB hdd in xbox... you turn on ms dash loads with new update, they see different hdd, ban.
of course for those with the orig hdd, no problem...
Post by: brienj on July 16, 2003, 08:24:00 PM
Any more what ifs?
I love how everybody is always full of conjecture and what ifs instead of sticking to the facts. I hate to be getting so angry, but stick with facts and until the dashboard is even released, don't worry about any what if scenario, it will be bypassed within hours, if not minutes by somebody. Just play your Xbox and have fun, geez.
Post by: mrRobinson on July 16, 2003, 09:25:00 PM
| QUOTE (brienj @ Jul 17 2003, 12:24 AM) |
| The original MS BIOS can not "see" past 8GB so they can't check for a larger HD. Any more what ifs? I love how everybody is always full of conjecture and what ifs instead of sticking to the facts. I hate to be getting so angry, but stick with facts and until the dashboard is even released, don't worry about any what if scenario, it will be bypassed within hours, if not minutes by somebody. Just play your Xbox and have fun, geez. |
You know, smart ass, it was a rhetorical question...
They don't need to scan 8GB of your hard drive to know whether or not you are using the original or a different hdd. (let one of the smart developer type's on this forum to give you the details)
They can in FACT implement the scenario i described.
You see every console made has survived and made money despite or without being significantly hurt, by the mod scene. What is new in this situation is a new bios (modded) being able to go onto a paid service (live) which not only negatively impacts those msft customers who purchased live and their live games but paves the way for new and much more damaging attacks to live, msft, and game cheating. By not allowing just a mod chip enabled on live they have already leveled the playing field so as not to hurt them or danger their "service". Fortuneatley for us they do not see those who have a larger hdd but can only use the "features" it gives them offline as a significant threat, as I don't believe they should. However, that isn't to say some braintank at Micros0ft hasn't thought ahead as to where modders may take the next step hence increasing the threat level and thus msft enacting the scenario I described.
Post by: brienj on July 17, 2003, 10:12:00 AM
I posted facts, lets have you post some, I have been wrong in the past, but I've never heard of such thing, and I believe that most people that say they can detect a different HD than the standard don't know what they are talking about. If you don't "lock" your HD, then yes they can, but if you keep it locked, you are safe. Sorry I forgot to add that one little detail. Everybody make sure you lock your hard drive too. Ok, now you're all safe.
Post by: brienj on July 17, 2003, 06:15:00 PM
But I guess that only matters if the serial number in the EEPROM doesn't match the one of the HD, eh?