Post by: Mr. Blonde on April 30, 2004, 07:35:00 AM
Gameplay/Controls
Now don't get me wrong I loved Splinter Cell for Xbox and the PC. There was nothing like hiding in an alley waiting for a terrorist to walk by before putting a 9mm bullet in their skulls. But in Manhunt they take the whole "stealth" thing to a ridiculous level. Not only do they put "hide space" every 10 steps but if you are caught it's almost impossible to fight your way out of the situation. Even if your armed and the enemy is not. The controls are lousy and after playing such classics as Ninja Gaiden and Freedome Fighters the camera that they give you in this game is awefull. The controls are okay and it's realively easy to execute your "finishing moves" but the game is too lost in it's own faults to be playable to me.
4/10
The Story
Oh rockstar why do you try? Nah just kidding Vice City and GTA had great stories. But this game.....You play a convict who is about to be executed who escapes the death chamber thanks to a film director. Now for the rest of the game you follow his "stage directions" as he guides you and films your "executions" of various gang members. No I promise I am not making that up.
2/10
Graphics
I really like the video overlays at the start of the game and taping of executions. But overall the actually in game graphics are your basic Xbox. Nothing special and most of the enviroments are so dark I guess it doesn't matter that much.
4/10
Overall Score
4/10
Stay away from this one if you can. Instead save your money
and pray that Rockstar doesn't f-up GTA 4.
Review posted at Xbox-Scene, Xboxanomics and FG <
Post by: Anima on May 01, 2004, 12:05:00 PM
Thats pretty low score for a quality game at best. I mean its no ninja gaiden, but like I said its a very very solid game. I really cant see any actual gameplay faults except the repetitive nature itself of the game. The camera is just fine. Infact the camera is better in this game then ninja gaiden... please dont dispute that ninja gaiden had awesome camera angles. Im sure many people would disagree.
No arguement about story though 2/10 is a bit low. Your giving such low scores man. These scores are deserving of games that are pure junk.
Graphics.. 4/10? How about atleast 7/10. 4/10 is a very very poor quality graphics game.
Not the best game.. but a solid rental.
Anyways its atleast a 7/10.
This post has been edited by Anima: May 1 2004, 07:10 PM <
Post by: rgtaa on May 01, 2004, 12:41:00 PM
Most of the Major reviewers are giving it about 8 out of 10!
I like it because it seems like you are in a movie!
I like having the director speaking into my communicator in my ear!
I like the horror feature of it and the whole atmosphere of the game.
Controls work for me!
I wasn't expecting anything from this Title so I was pleasantly surprised!
I may still agree that some might want to rent it before they buy it just to make sure IT"S their CUP of TEA! I mean it's a SNUFF MOVIE GAME!
Edit:
I forgot to add that you can RUN useing the Right Trigger and PAD and RUN away from guys chaseing you ... doesn't seem like the orginal Reviewer played it that much!
Before I used RUN ... yeah walking away from the Bad guys kept them coming!
Post by: Kerf on May 01, 2004, 05:31:00 PM
This post has been edited by Kerf: May 2 2004, 12:38 AM <
Post by: punksoul257 on May 02, 2004, 03:43:00 AM
Ok its repetative, ok at times its annoyingly difficult, but common its VIOLENCE
i've really need a violent game. especially after being kicked out of my band for no reason.
Post by: Mr. Blonde on May 03, 2004, 06:01:00 AM
And yes if you hit Run you can "run" away from the bad guys but it is still stupid that an armed man with a sharp object would still take as long to beat a perosn who wasn't armed. That is just bad programming on Rockstar's point. Anyway I just wanna know 2 things
Why did Kerf delete his entire reply? LOL
and what does getting kicked out of a band have to do with my review of Manhunt!
Post by: rgtaa on May 03, 2004, 06:11:00 AM
I think the game is about stealth killing ...so you get punished for having to do hand to hand combat!
The game is sort of like sneaking around and killing people ... even when you stop walking you hear your heartbeat and the 'PUNKS" talking ...telling how they are gonna get you ... or ... talking to themselves.
The game is trying to create the feeling we all had as kids where we are sneaking in the bushes trying to pull a PRANK on someone!
This game is Not ninja Gaiden.. and most games are not in the 95 percent class ... but this game is not a Dog either.
edit:
I forgot to add ... in NINJA Gaiden it's about fighting against others in combat ... in this game ...it's the opposite! You have to be a cunning, back-stabbing, cold-blooded killer who only has the advantage from BEHIND and DARKNESS is your Friend! Your graphics rating of 2 ... is also so wrong! It's called "atmosphere" ... the producers are creating a nitty, gritty, depressing, atmosphere on purpose. Dead or Alive 3 and Ninja Gaiden are Japanese clear, very beautiful graphics ...again for the "atmosphere' ... the charactors are "good" healthy and wholesome!
This guy in Manhunt is a convicted Murderer who is on the prowl for victums ...and only is a STAR when he kills from BEHIND ... that's why the cutscenes when you are killing in stealth ... and NONE for average face to face fighting!
Post by: ChrisF on May 03, 2004, 09:56:00 AM
Post by: rgtaa on May 03, 2004, 02:55:00 PM
100 A+ excellent
90 A GREAT
80 B Good
70 C Fair
65 D Just passing
60 and below fail!
In school if I got a 40-50 (average according to ChrisF) I would be embarassed to tell my parents or show my friends ... I could live with a 76!
Same with this game 7.6 is maybe B minus or C+!I would give it a Solid B to B+ ... because I like the concept , atmosphere and gameplay!
Post by: CaTcHa on May 04, 2004, 03:26:00 PM
Regarding the reviewers comment....
| QUOTE |
| But overall the actually in game graphics are your basic Xbox |
What a crazzzyy comment
Ermm well yes as far as I know I am playing it on a basic xbox , is there any different? have they released a new model with improved GPU that Rockstar could have used to improve the game engine?
Graphics deserve at least a 8/10 compared to most other releases , stop expecting miricles from your box and dont expect every rockstar game to be a+++ , B will do for me.
They deserve at least a few extra points for the graphic effects (the grainy effect is supposed to be there and is on the pc version as well it really adds to the feel of the game and makes you feel like you are watching from a spycam)
in my opinion the motion effects in gta3 didnt quite work but applause to them for trying something different with each game they do.
Its a nice playable stealth game and deserves an 8/10 all round dont let this review put you off guys , rent it try it .
This post has been edited by CaTcHa: May 4 2004, 10:37 PM <
Post by: roar on May 05, 2004, 11:27:00 AM
You don't agree with someones review, fine, you want to give your own reivew or disagree with this review, fine, you want to tell someone their review is WRONG? Not fine, reviews are opnions, neither right nor wrong, this person gave it a score, end of story, quit telling the guy he is wrong, if you did that to every review people would eventually stop writing reviews.
This post has been edited by roar: May 5 2004, 06:28 PM <
Post by: rgtaa on May 05, 2004, 11:13:00 AM
You are right!
The reviewer has the Freedom to rate a game any way he wants.
But it's also OK to review the REVIEW and have honest difference of opinion on the game.
We are here to have fun and share about the games we LOVE, LIKE and HATE!
I liked this game and the orginal reviewer hated the game.
I'm not mad at the orginal reviewer ... in fact ... he has a great sense of humor ...looking at his second post.
Peace!
(unless I'm playing you HALO ... in which case I hope you die FAST and Painful!
)just joking!
Post by: gescom on May 05, 2004, 03:27:00 PM
with so many better games to choose from why play this piece of shit? unless of course you think swearing and ultra violence makes a good game...? then by all means go out and purchase this game. this game was just another bmxxx... and like the original poster - i'm not surprised; rockstar in my eyes got lucky with one game: gta. that's it. every other game i've played by them has sucked... what was that riot causing game? pppbbpttt....crap. <
Post by: Corspegrinder99 on May 05, 2004, 08:48:00 PM
Post by: addyb on May 06, 2004, 02:56:00 AM
Come on Rockstar stop milking GTAS fame and churning out crap! Red dead revolver looks pretty good and has some good reviews but i wanna see a review from someone from the scene thats played it!!
Oh BTW dont get me started on midnight club 2 (total mental block, think that was the name) pile of shite!!!
<
Post by: ChrisF on May 06, 2004, 04:50:00 AM
| QUOTE (rgtaa @ May 3 2004, 11:55 PM) |
| The same standard they use in school most sites and people use in rating games! : 100 A+ excellent 90 A GREAT 80 B Good 70 C Fair 65 D Just passing 60 and below fail! In school if I got a 40-50 (average according to ChrisF) I would be embarassed to tell my parents or show my friends ... I could live with a 76! Same with this game 7.6 is maybe B minus or C+!I would give it a Solid B to B+ ... because I like the concept , atmosphere and gameplay! |
Stats 101:
The school letter rating is tremendously squeued - hell, over 60% of the distribution is a single letter grade. Why? They are assigning a letter grade based on a distribution of numerical grades and consider anything below 60% bad enough to fail you. They center their letter grading distribution at the 80% mark accoring to your scale which is important to consider since this is their distribution range for letter grades (100 high, 80 mean, 60 low). However the underlying numerics still use the full % scale - meaning that 10-20% is very possible but anything under 60 earns you the same letter grade - basically a floor value for the letters - they run two sets of distributions and this is where your confusion comes from. In the case of games you could give a game a 3.5 with anything under 6.0 as a 'Failure' rating.
For numerics you need to consider a uniform distribution or a bell curved distribution, you can center it at any mark you like and assign any arbitrary endpoints. My point is that if you truly grade on a 10 point scale then 5 is the center. Yeah, it might be bell curved and harder to get extreme values (i.e. standard normal dist.) or a uniform dist. but it still centers around a mean value. Now you can do what you want - if you want to run a scale from 5-10 and have 7.5 be your mean feel free (makes more sense to go 1-5 and use 2.5 but that's neither here nor there). This is what most gaming sites do although they say they rank on a 10 point scale - meaning they don't do what they say at all because they never use the bottom end and claim to rate numerically. What good is the bottom end of the scale if it is never ever used (i.e. I'd bet the total number of games 9.0 and above exceeds the total number of games below 5.0 by a wide margin). Ironically they are not alone in this by any means - sell side investment analysts almost never give a stock a 'Sell' rating so smart people adjust and interpret a 'Hold' as a sell, an 'Accumulate' as a hold, etc... (interestingly they have 3+ terms for 'Buy' but only one for sell and hold - lesson: don't take things at face value).
All that being said, the author claims to rate on a 10 point scale and he does. It is not his fault that people don't understand statistics enough to realize that.
Post by: rgtaa on May 06, 2004, 05:05:00 AM
The orginal poster rated this game as 4 out of 10 with a graphics of 2 out of 10 ...and many of us that read his review thought he was being a little too harsh on the game. If you look below there is a Pro-review site that gave it 5 out of 10 ...so he is not alone in giving the game a bad rating ... but he is NOT the average!
If you look below you can see that I made the major repected Review sites font alittle Bigger than the ones that are not that well known... and the blue color shows the 2 sites that gave it a "bad" rating.
MANHUNT scores taken from Gamesrankings.com:
IGN 4/20/2004 8.3 out of 10 83.0%
GameSpot 4/20/2004 8.3 out of 10 83.0%
Gamespy 4/20/2004 4 out of 5 80.0%
TeamXBOX 4/24/2004 8.2 out of 10 82.0%
Eurogamer 4/30/2004 6 out of 10 60.0%
1UP 4/22/2004 5 out of 10 50.0%
Game Zone 5/2/2004 8.3 out of 10 83.0%
PGNX Network 4/27/2004 8.2 out of 10 82.0%
3D Avenue 5/6/2004 88 out of 100 88.0%
Videogame City 5/4/2004 8 out of 10 80.0%
Post by: ChrisF on May 06, 2004, 05:59:00 AM
Now the original poster doesn't use the 'gaming site scale'. He actually rates what he considers a slightly below average game as a 4. This is the proper use of a true 10 point scale. Your confusion comes from the fact that you aren't used to seeing this and it looks odd. It's not the reviewer's fault that the pay sites bias their scores upward as an industry.
What do you do with deliberate upward bias, you relativise it:
1) All gaming site scores range from 5-10 with no exception that I can recall but I'm sure there's a 4 out there somewhere
2) If you want a true decile distribution of 1-10 you make 5 = 1, 7.5 = 5, and 10 = 10.
3) So now 7.5 becomes an average score of 5.
CONCLUSION:
It's stupid to argue about it. The bottom line is that the game sites' scales are totally upward biased (no one can dispute this) and you would prefer the original poster to bias his own scale for comparability. This is a fine rational and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm merely making the point that the scales used by the gaming sites are incredibly flawed and misleading unless you realize that 7.5 is actually their average game rating - most gamers realize this even if only subconsciously but it is a massive departure from what is considered standard from a true statistical point of view. My point is - if anyone is at fault you have to blame the industry and not the reviewer. That being said, for comparability you have to use the industry biased scale which turns a 4/10 (below average) to a 6.5-7.0/10 (below average). Scores you quoted range from 6-8.8 or somewhere around there - that puts his 4/10 as a 6.5/10 and right in their range (obviously some people really like it 8.8 while others done 6.0 - this guy just doesn't). Still the same departure and relative ranking but the absolute numbers become kind of meaningless once the mean moves away from the center.
BTW - The point is established and rational clear from both sides. I'm not going to post stats anymore on this thread but I didn't care to see the original poster maligned for his rating when it is the gaming sites that use their scales incorrectly.
Post by: rgtaa on May 06, 2004, 06:16:00 AM
And the rating system that is in place everwhere ... gives all of us a quick and easy way to see if the game is GREAT, Good, Average or Poor! And what you are saying would be very confusing unless everyone used that system... which they don't.
The bottom line is if a GAME sucks and a pro site rates it as GREAT! .. the Readers would have contempt on that site...and that site would fold. Period!
Yes, the Game Developers are gonna KISS ASS! Just like in the movie industry ... but in MOVIE RATINGS it's the same way ... a Respected SITE will not be a party to Advertizing or other crap that will unduly influence the REVIEW. But YES ...it sometimes happens. That's why I made the RESPECTED SITES FONT bigger ... because the little guys I don't know and they could be UNDULY influenced ... and I am skepical.
Post by: ChrisF on May 06, 2004, 07:13:00 AM
Original Poster: 4/10 (below average)
Gaming Scale Conversion: 6.5/10 (below average assuming 7.5 is their average) - 65%
I'm really not sure what's average. I can't even remember a 5.0 which means average may well be the 80% mark in a 6-10 range.
Gaming sites are very biased in the fact that they don't use the scales they claim - there is a huge upward bias for the reasons explained earlier in that there are no 1-3s while many 8-10's. The reason is the same as the reason that has been creating major legal issues for the recommendations of sell-side analysts. They should be unbiased yet they do not want to alienate their firm from investment banking business. So a hold rating is much more palatable than a sell but it still means to get the hell out of Dodge fast. There's a lot of money on the table there and far less in gaming so you don't see the same type of concern and amounts of people filing suit. The gamesites give 7 to a below average game, much more palatable than a 3-4. Why do they need to be palatable - advertising revenue, click referals, and very good inside news sources to attract more people. The larger sites are more prone to bias and not wanting to offend since more traffic = more advertising dollars at stake. You don't think they survive on donations based on their reviews do you? They aren't doing it out of malice, they just need to make the ratings palatable and not offend people - a 7.5 sounds okay while a 5.0 sounds shitty yet both represent an average game.
If this doesn't make sense to you, I'd suggest you speak with a math or finance professor. He will tell you exactly what I've told you. You are welcome to use whatever rating system you want but there is no way to rationalize that 7.5 on a true 10 point scale represents an average game and say that there is no upward statistical bias. In any type of unskewed distribution the midpoint is always the average i.e. 5/10. If it's not then there is a skew/bias to the distribution. This in unrefutable. If you find bias, you have to ask why and there is a marketing factor that I've already provided for you as well as a convention factor (everyone else is doing it).
Post by: rgtaa on May 06, 2004, 07:40:00 AM
Post by: addyb on May 07, 2004, 02:53:00 AM
hahah they way i see it is this, if your still not convinced from a review, just rent the game before you buy and see for yourself, i do this all the time, even for games that are highly rated i rent because theres no guarantee i will like them.
To argue over % and ABC etc grades is kinda sad really, RENT the game out and make your own mind!
I read a few reviews on manhunt, i then was undecided so i rented and found out it wasnt for me so im not going to buy, simple as that!
Post by: Angerwound on May 07, 2004, 06:42:00 AM
| QUOTE (Mr. Blonde @ Apr 30 2004, 03:24 PM) |
| Wow I really should of expected this from Rockstar games lately, but they completly fooled me. I thought this game would be a visceral action game on war torn post-aplocaleptic streets similar to the cult hit Freedom Fighters or even Beats of Rage. But instead what I ended up getting was a piece of crap, badly written, hide in the shadoes and kill people stealth game Gameplay/Controls Now don't get me wrong I loved Splinter Cell for Xbox and the PC. There was nothing like hiding in an alley waiting for a terrorist to walk by before putting a 9mm bullet in their skulls. But in Manhunt they take the whole "stealth" thing to a ridiculous level. Not only do they put "hide space" every 10 steps but if you are caught it's almost impossible to fight your way out of the situation. Even if your armed and the enemy is not. The controls are lousy and after playing such classics as Ninja Gaiden and Freedome Fighters the camera that they give you in this game is awefull. The controls are okay and it's realively easy to execute your "finishing moves" but the game is too lost in it's own faults to be playable to me. 4/10 The Story Oh rockstar why do you try? Nah just kidding Vice City and GTA had great stories. But this game.....You play a convict who is about to be executed who escapes the death chamber thanks to a film director. Now for the rest of the game you follow his "stage directions" as he guides you and films your "executions" of various gang members. No I promise I am not making that up. 2/10 Graphics I really like the video overlays at the start of the game and taping of executions. But overall the actually in game graphics are your basic Xbox. Nothing special and most of the enviroments are so dark I guess it doesn't matter that much. 4/10 Overall Score 4/10 Stay away from this one if you can. Instead save your money and pray that Rockstar doesn't f-up GTA 4. Review posted at Xbox-Scene, Xboxanomics and FG |
STFU you stupid piece of shit.
This game is excellant. It take's violence in games to a new level. What other game can you stab someone in the neck with a glass shard or suffocate someone with a plastic bag? How about kicking them in the mouth till they die?
You just pissed because you can't play the fucking game you need to die a slow and horrible death like all the bastards I kill in this game!
GO TO HELL!
Post by: Mr. Blonde on May 09, 2004, 02:53:00 PM
It would make that last guy WAY to happy....
Post by: ChrisF on May 09, 2004, 04:12:00 PM
| QUOTE (gescom @ May 7 2004, 05:53 PM) |
| angerwound - this will ease your pain |
LOL -
.
Post by: rgtaa on May 09, 2004, 04:46:00 PM
The picture of the chair and person strapped in it is toward bottom of page.
http://www.claytonbailey.com/chair.htm
a little taste of the link without the picture
Insert 25 cents. Execute the condemned man. "
When a coin is inserted, and the switches are pulled, the condemned man twitches and jerks in the chair. Sparks fly and the odor of burning hair is emitted from the panel.
The coin operated Electric Chair inspired complaints when it was first shown at the Triton Museum in Santa Clara, CA.
The artist says: "People love to see violence when it's happening to others. We see violence and crime as entertainment all the time and nobody complains. Now we see punishment and somebody complains.
While counting his pile of coins at the close of the exhibition, he notes that "crime doesn't pay, but punishment does.
Post by: DuDeR MaN on May 10, 2004, 05:35:00 PM
| QUOTE (roar @ May 5 2004, 02:16 PM) |
| Perhaps I'm a little confused... but is this the "Xbox Game Review" forum or the "Xbox Review Game Reviews" forum? You don't agree with someones review, fine, you want to give your own reivew or disagree with this review, fine, you want to tell someone their review is WRONG? Not fine, reviews are opnions, neither right nor wrong, this person gave it a score, end of story, quit telling the guy he is wrong, if you did that to every review people would eventually stop writing reviews. |
Amen to that
Now as much as I have enjoyed reading this thread, it's getting a little out of hand so I'm putting it on a temporary lock.