Post by: pug_ster on December 18, 2004, 06:00:00 AM
This is sad, really sad. 44% Americans favor at least some restrictions on the civil liberties of Muslim Americans. At least the hatred towards them is not as bad as the hatred towards the Japanese Americans during WWII...
Post by: nemt on December 18, 2004, 07:06:00 AM
Post by: Master-Chief on December 18, 2004, 08:01:00 PM
| QUOTE (pug_ster @ Dec 18 2004, 09:03 AM) |
| http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6729916/ This is sad, really sad. 44% Americans favor at least some restrictions on the civil liberties of Muslim Americans. At least the hatred towards them is not as bad as the hatred towards the Japanese Americans during WWII... |
WHOA! How dare you say that. I am Muslim myself. Jeez, you Americans are so fucking brainwashed!
Post by: RonnieIsBack on December 18, 2004, 08:52:00 PM
I remember a poll from MSNBC or CNN where Americans said they would give up rights to be safer.I remembered a quote from when I was back in school.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin
My point is that Americans say and do stupid things when they are affraid.This poll as well the one mentioned before shows that.
Post by: Dark Schneider on December 18, 2004, 09:41:00 PM
Not in any way backing up anything in that article....
But if all of the people that were blowing up airlines, crashing planes into buildings, sending suicide bombers into civilian towns, were BLUE colored men age 25 wearing black glasses, pink ties, and orange suits, and white keds......
Who would you want investigated and paid attention to more?
And to judge an entire culture based on the wrong doings of others is also not something I condone.
Bit of a paradox.......
Post by: meh_33333 on December 19, 2004, 06:33:00 AM
| QUOTE (Master-Chief @ Dec 19 2004, 05:04 AM) |
| WHOA! How dare you say that. I am Muslim myself. Jeez, you Americans are so fucking brainwashed! |
yup i agree
Post by: pug_ster on December 19, 2004, 09:49:00 AM
Post by: SKoT on December 19, 2004, 11:58:00 AM
I HIGHLY DOUBT, that if you went up to 100 americans randomly 44 of them would say that, maybe 2.
Post by: FektionFekler on December 19, 2004, 12:28:00 PM
Post by: tupac2 on December 19, 2004, 05:41:00 PM
Post by: Hercules Q Einstein on December 19, 2004, 05:17:00 PM
| QUOTE (Master-Chief @ Dec 19 2004, 05:04 AM) |
| WHOA! How dare you say that. I am Muslim myself. Jeez, you Americans are so fucking brainwashed! |
Oh my mistake, i thought muslims were the ones that did 9-11.
Turns out i was just brainwashed.
Post by: Master-Chief on December 19, 2004, 05:22:00 PM
| QUOTE (FektionFekler @ Dec 19 2004, 03:00 PM) |
| I'm all for it. |
How would you feel if Iraq put Americans in concentration camps? Not that I am from Iraq, but since the country is brought up a lot I thought I would use it as an example. You guys would be protesting and rioting like shit. Yeah... thought so...
Post by: Hercules Q Einstein on December 19, 2004, 05:55:00 PM
| QUOTE (Master-Chief @ Dec 20 2004, 02:25 AM) |
| How would you feel if Iraq put Americans in concentration camps? |
As oppose to how they treat americans now??
And when was the last time american terrorist planed suicide bombings in iraq? Never because were not cowards.
This post has been edited by Hercules Q Einstein: Dec 20 2004, 01:56 AM
Post by: FektionFekler on December 19, 2004, 06:47:00 PM
| QUOTE (Master-Chief @ Dec 20 2004, 02:25 AM) |
| How would you feel if Iraq put Americans in concentration camps? Not that I am from Iraq, but since the country is brought up a lot I thought I would use it as an example. You guys would be protesting and rioting like shit. Yeah... thought so... |
It wouldn't ever happen, because nothing can crush the will of the American people, we are the most powerful nation in the history of the modern world. Hail Satan.
Post by: nemt on December 19, 2004, 08:35:00 PM
| QUOTE (Master-Chief @ Dec 19 2004, 08:25 PM) |
| How would you feel if Iraq put Americans in concentration camps? Not that I am from Iraq, but since the country is brought up a lot I thought I would use it as an example. You guys would be protesting and rioting like shit. Yeah... thought so... |
Maybe that will happen when twenty americans crash some planes into muslim landmarks filled with civilians.
Post by: RonnieIsBack on December 20, 2004, 12:04:00 AM
youre very funny and very stupid.
Post by: Baner on December 20, 2004, 05:20:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Yes, it is sad that 3,000 people died in 9/11 but more people died in drunk driving, murders, accidents, etc. |
The sad part is that us, as Americans, have grown accustomed to Drunk driving deaths, murders and the rest. It's something we see on tv everyday, and think nothing of it. You can't stop a murder, much like you can't stop a terrorist attack. You might be able to postpone it, but if there is a will, there is a way, and with these terrorist groups reaching into the thousands of followers, there is always a way.
The governments job is to keep us happy, and the easiest way to do that is to keep us safe. They've shown as an image of safe, after releasing the Patriot Act, creating the department of Homeland security, and going to war in Iraq. But the people want more, even tho they haven't been in any immediate danger since 2001, 3 years ago.
Say your nieghbors home was broken into, you have the right to be scared. But would you still be scared 3 years down the road? Even 3 weeks? Us as Americans have put the image of fear in our own heads, and using one terrorist attack as the reason. It's not the government with "fear tactics", it's our own media and friends, getting together and sharing thier fears.
Post by: nemt on December 20, 2004, 05:41:00 AM
Post by: nemt on December 20, 2004, 11:30:00 AM
| QUOTE (RonnieIsBack @ Dec 20 2004, 02:12 PM) |
| and who commits more crimes? Immigrants or US citizens? |
Proportionally speaking illegal immigrants commit exponentially more crime.
Post by: SKoT on December 21, 2004, 10:46:00 AM
QUOTE(RonnieIsBack @ Dec 20 2004, 08:12 PM)
and who commits more crimes?
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: nemt on December 21, 2004, 10:48:00 AM
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Every illegal immigrant in this country has committed multiple crimes.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: Baner on December 21, 2004, 11:11:00 AM
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Post by: nemt on December 21, 2004, 10:48:00 AM
Post by: Baner on December 21, 2004, 11:11:00 AM
QUOTE(RonnieIsBack @ Dec 20 2004, 02:12 PM)
and who commits more crimes?
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: melon on December 22, 2004, 11:48:00 AM
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I dont know why I bother anymore. The arguments used here are moronic.
Yes 3000 people died (600 odd where British), and Muslims carried out the attack but that figure pales in comparison to what America has done to Muslim countries and the hundreds of thousands America has been directly or indirectly responsible for.
Your countries sponsership of Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palastinians.
The support given to Iraq by both our countries to attack Iran. We gave them the chemicals!
The countless civillian lives lost in Afghan.
America's control over Turkey through the IMF.
Being Muslim does not mean you are a terrorist just like being Jewish does not mean you support Israel's foriegn policy or being American means you support Bush and his actions.
A lot of you havnt got a clue what you are talking about and know nothing about your country's past and current political state. I know more and I'm English. Read some books, listen to foriegn news chanels, stop beliving all the bullshit you here about terrorists and form your own opinions.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: FektionFekler on December 22, 2004, 11:59:00 AM
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: SKoT on December 22, 2004, 12:29:00 PM
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Post by: melon on December 22, 2004, 11:48:00 AM
Yes 3000 people died (600 odd where British), and Muslims carried out the attack but that figure pales in comparison to what America has done to Muslim countries and the hundreds of thousands America has been directly or indirectly responsible for.
Your countries sponsership of Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palastinians.
The support given to Iraq by both our countries to attack Iran. We gave them the chemicals!
The countless civillian lives lost in Afghan.
America's control over Turkey through the IMF.
Being Muslim does not mean you are a terrorist just like being Jewish does not mean you support Israel's foriegn policy or being American means you support Bush and his actions.
A lot of you havnt got a clue what you are talking about and know nothing about your country's past and current political state. I know more and I'm English. Read some books, listen to foriegn news chanels, stop beliving all the bullshit you here about terrorists and form your own opinions.
Post by: FektionFekler on December 22, 2004, 11:59:00 AM
Post by: SKoT on December 22, 2004, 12:29:00 PM
QUOTE(Baner @ Dec 21 2004, 08:14 PM)
What did that have to do with this post in the first place? So completly off topic.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: FektionFekler on December 22, 2004, 12:43:00 PM
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Post by: FektionFekler on December 22, 2004, 12:43:00 PM
QUOTE(SKoT @ Dec 22 2004, 09:32 PM)
what about the catholic church?
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: nemt on December 22, 2004, 12:57:00 PM
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Only one major religion instructs followers to seek and kill anyone with different beliefs through its holy scripture, you all get three guesses which religion I'm talking about, and the first two don't count.
I'll go toe to toe anyday with anyone who says Islam doesn't incite violence anymore than other religions, political corectness may be political, but it's very rarely correct.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: geniusalz on December 22, 2004, 06:06:00 PM
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Islam does not 'instruct' voilence, killing civilians, etc.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: nemt on December 22, 2004, 06:07:00 PM
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Post by: nemt on December 22, 2004, 12:57:00 PM
I'll go toe to toe anyday with anyone who says Islam doesn't incite violence anymore than other religions, political corectness may be political, but it's very rarely correct.
Post by: geniusalz on December 22, 2004, 06:06:00 PM
Post by: nemt on December 22, 2004, 06:07:00 PM
QUOTE(geniusalz @ Dec 22 2004, 09:09 PM)
Islam does not 'instruct' voilence, killing civilians, etc.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: geniusalz on December 22, 2004, 06:19:00 PM
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Care to enlighten me then?
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pug_ster on December 22, 2004, 06:21:00 PM
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I am sure that somewhere in the bible, some heretic interpretes that all non-Christians must have their 'judgement' before God.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: nemt on December 22, 2004, 06:51:00 PM
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Post by: geniusalz on December 22, 2004, 06:19:00 PM
Post by: pug_ster on December 22, 2004, 06:21:00 PM
Post by: nemt on December 22, 2004, 06:51:00 PM
QUOTE(geniusalz @ Dec 22 2004, 09:22 PM)
Care to enlighten me then?
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: The unProfessional on December 22, 2004, 07:03:00 PM
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It's almost directed more towards shunning non-believers than it is toward bettering the spirits of believers. The Bible has it's pieces of aggression, but at least the vast majority of the book is about Christianity, not anti-everything else.
Don't get me wrong... Christianity has it's problems too, as does any religion.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: FektionFekler on December 22, 2004, 08:47:00 PM
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But it doesn't have as many problems as Islam, because Christianity has had its reformation, while Islam has not.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: cromat44 on December 22, 2004, 10:12:00 PM
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hmmm.... what race and religon were the 9/11 hijackers? what about the "shoe bomber"?
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: Mr. Chips on December 23, 2004, 12:38:00 AM
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Post by: The unProfessional on December 22, 2004, 07:03:00 PM
QUOTE
[2.6] Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.
[2.7] Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.
[2.8] And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
[2.9] They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.
[2.10] There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they lied.
[2.7] Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.
[2.8] And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
[2.9] They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.
[2.10] There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they lied.
It's almost directed more towards shunning non-believers than it is toward bettering the spirits of believers. The Bible has it's pieces of aggression, but at least the vast majority of the book is about Christianity, not anti-everything else.
Don't get me wrong... Christianity has it's problems too, as does any religion.
Post by: FektionFekler on December 22, 2004, 08:47:00 PM
Post by: cromat44 on December 22, 2004, 10:12:00 PM
Post by: Mr. Chips on December 23, 2004, 12:38:00 AM
QUOTE(cromat44 @ Dec 22 2004, 10:15 PM)
hmmm.... what race and religon were the 9/11 hijackers? what about the "shoe bomber"?
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: nemt on December 23, 2004, 09:31:00 AM
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How many Al Qaeda members aren't muslims?
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: Wolfblade13 on December 24, 2004, 05:18:00 AM
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btw. if i was a muslim i would be angry, and feel like blowing my self up, by just reading this topic....
in the middle ages, there were crusaders murdering alot of "infidels" because they weren't cristians...you just got to accept and respect other people's religions. if you dont you ARE stupid no matter if you are cristian or muslim or whatever religion you have you are still stupid...
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: Wong Hung Lo on December 24, 2004, 06:18:00 AM
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: nemt on December 24, 2004, 08:05:00 AM
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Islam is a religion, not a race, you've got your politically correct BS mixed up.
If he truly believes the words in the Koran, and wants to seek out and kill anyone who is a non muslim, he deserves no better.
Of course he can, I'm one of a growing number of americans who are starting to see through the politically correct "don't hurt anyone's feelings" shroud draped over the true nature of Islamic terror.
Don't let that stop you, I'll even give you some dynamite if you want.
In the middle ages there were crusaders attempting to reclaim their holy land. This was also based on the words of a french king, not a holy scripture. The cleansing of infidels muslims speak of comes directly from their religion, not from their leaders. I live in a free country, maybe you live in soviet russia, but where I come from, I don't have to respect or accept anything or anyone...and a religion based on killing anyone who isn't a member has a long way to go before it earns my respect.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: FektionFekler on December 24, 2004, 08:49:00 AM
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Post by: nemt on December 23, 2004, 09:31:00 AM
Post by: Wolfblade13 on December 24, 2004, 05:18:00 AM
btw. if i was a muslim i would be angry, and feel like blowing my self up, by just reading this topic....
in the middle ages, there were crusaders murdering alot of "infidels" because they weren't cristians...you just got to accept and respect other people's religions. if you dont you ARE stupid no matter if you are cristian or muslim or whatever religion you have you are still stupid...
Post by: Wong Hung Lo on December 24, 2004, 06:18:00 AM
Post by: nemt on December 24, 2004, 08:05:00 AM
QUOTE(Wolfblade13 @ Dec 24 2004, 07:49 AM)
i didnt read every thing, but the fact nemt is posting here only proofs this is a topic only for cristians/racists (not saying cristians are racists btw)
Islam is a religion, not a race, you've got your politically correct BS mixed up.
QUOTE(Wolfblade13 @ Dec 24 2004, 07:49 AM)
the next time you see a muslim just greet him with your right hand in the air, and sticking a knife in his chest with your left one. That makes you a good american citizen.
If he truly believes the words in the Koran, and wants to seek out and kill anyone who is a non muslim, he deserves no better.
QUOTE(Wolfblade13 @ Dec 24 2004, 07:49 AM)
bush CAN be proud of you
Of course he can, I'm one of a growing number of americans who are starting to see through the politically correct "don't hurt anyone's feelings" shroud draped over the true nature of Islamic terror.
QUOTE(Wolfblade13 @ Dec 24 2004, 07:49 AM)
btw. if i was a muslim i would be angry, and feel like blowing my self up, by just reading this topic....
Don't let that stop you, I'll even give you some dynamite if you want.
QUOTE(Wolfblade13 @ Dec 24 2004, 07:49 AM)
in the middle ages, there were crusaders murdering alot of "infidels" because they weren't cristians...you just got to accept and respect other people's religions. if you dont you ARE stupid no matter if you are cristian or muslim or whatever religion you have you are still stupid...
In the middle ages there were crusaders attempting to reclaim their holy land. This was also based on the words of a french king, not a holy scripture. The cleansing of infidels muslims speak of comes directly from their religion, not from their leaders. I live in a free country, maybe you live in soviet russia, but where I come from, I don't have to respect or accept anything or anyone...and a religion based on killing anyone who isn't a member has a long way to go before it earns my respect.
Post by: FektionFekler on December 24, 2004, 08:49:00 AM
QUOTE(Wolfblade13 @ Dec 24 2004, 01:49 PM)
in the middle ages, there were crusaders murdering alot of "infidels" because they weren't cristians...you just got to accept and respect other people's religions. if you dont you ARE stupid no matter if you are cristian or muslim or whatever religion you have you are still stupid...
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: SKoT on December 24, 2004, 08:56:00 AM
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Post by: SKoT on December 24, 2004, 08:56:00 AM
QUOTE(FektionFekler @ Dec 24 2004, 05:20 PM)
That was also about 800 years ago.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: FektionFekler on December 24, 2004, 11:44:00 AM
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Those two subjects are completely unrelated in terms of how a civilized society should operate.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on December 24, 2004, 01:26:00 PM
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I have a frind who is a devout muslum and I asked him about the Kuran, He said that it really preache peace and in thranslation, depending on who is the translator is comes out differently. One person could say it said "Shun non-believers and do not be taken form the path." another translator could translate the same peice of text into "Destroy non-believers and stay on the path."(neither are real quotes just and example). Islam is a religion of peace, some people intererte the Bible differently, there are those who say that, the ible can predict trivial things about the future(those "bible" books you see at the store), but to any educated level-headed individual this is just untrue.
Pleae excuse spelling mistakes I'm in a rush.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: K98 on December 24, 2004, 08:21:00 PM
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Well how would you feel if family or friends were some of the people killed on 9/11 by ISLAM terrorists? I still would like to see where you people get these "shoot innocent children" "rape women" ideas from that our soldiers are apparently doing every 10 minutes.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on December 24, 2004, 08:51:00 PM
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Those things happen in all wars, it's virtually unavoidable. The reason people are so upset about the war is that many including myself feel that the was is un-necissary, and is just creating more hatred, and just begging for more teror attacks and bloodshed. There are people who believe that ISLAMIC terrorists need to be eradicated, and there are people who think that AMERICAN "Terrorists" need to be eradicated(not saying that our soldiers are terorists, just our president.). It's all about POV.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: FektionFekler on December 24, 2004, 09:21:00 PM
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: futbol4kee on January 03, 2005, 07:13:00 AM
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. Its happened to me. I am a 16 year old persian. however i do not practice anykind of formal religion.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pug_ster on January 03, 2005, 11:26:00 AM
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Post by: FektionFekler on December 24, 2004, 11:44:00 AM
Post by: pegasys on December 24, 2004, 01:26:00 PM
Pleae excuse spelling mistakes I'm in a rush.
Post by: K98 on December 24, 2004, 08:21:00 PM
QUOTE
how would u feel if a foregin nation invaded your neighbour hood, shot ur kids, raped your wife and moms, and you are just a normal worker, you have no other way of revenge than the ez way out. you know you will never get a trial agaisnt teh crimes done against your family. its all true, these are just normal people who america has mistreated (the pictures tat surfaced before were just a portion of what has really happened, imagine all the events tat took place when the cameras were not there), ne ways thats my two cents, peace
Well how would you feel if family or friends were some of the people killed on 9/11 by ISLAM terrorists? I still would like to see where you people get these "shoot innocent children" "rape women" ideas from that our soldiers are apparently doing every 10 minutes.
Post by: pegasys on December 24, 2004, 08:51:00 PM
Post by: FektionFekler on December 24, 2004, 09:21:00 PM
Post by: futbol4kee on January 03, 2005, 07:13:00 AM
. Its happened to me. I am a 16 year old persian. however i do not practice anykind of formal religion.
Post by: pug_ster on January 03, 2005, 11:26:00 AM
QUOTE(futbol4kee @ Jan 3 2005, 03:44 PM)
em. all i have to say is that how would you feel being muslim or not but from that region and you go into an airport and the everyone stares at you and when you go through the security scanner and ur told uve been chosen for a random check . Its happened to me. I am a 16 year old persian. however i do not practice anykind of formal religion.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: The unProfessional on January 03, 2005, 11:57:00 AM
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I don't deny that profiling does occur... but unfortunately there are reasons for it.
Nevertheless, everyone gets randomly screwed by screeners. I'm white with light hair and around Christmas I got "personal" attention... requiring a pat down, detailed search of my bags, shoes, and clothes. I've learned never to wrap christmas presents before travelling... luckily they didn't have to tear any wrapping paper off my gifts.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: fishlord on January 03, 2005, 12:02:00 PM
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. Its happened to me. I am a 16 year old persian. however i do not practice anykind of formal religion.Post by: The unProfessional on January 03, 2005, 11:57:00 AM
Nevertheless, everyone gets randomly screwed by screeners. I'm white with light hair and around Christmas I got "personal" attention... requiring a pat down, detailed search of my bags, shoes, and clothes. I've learned never to wrap christmas presents before travelling... luckily they didn't have to tear any wrapping paper off my gifts.
Post by: fishlord on January 03, 2005, 12:02:00 PM
QUOTE(Hercules Q Einstein @ Dec 20 2004, 01:55 AM)
As oppose to how they treat americans now??
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: SKoT on January 03, 2005, 12:13:00 PM
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Post by: SKoT on January 03, 2005, 12:13:00 PM
QUOTE(The unProfessional @ Jan 3 2005, 08:28 PM)
I don't deny that profiling does occur... but unfortunately there are reasons for it.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on January 03, 2005, 12:22:00 PM
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The terrorists are extremely brave, they are sacraficing their lives for a cause, regardless of how horrible that cause might be. Terrorisum is the poor mans warfair. And since most of our enimies with the exeption of North Korea are "poor" thats the kinds of war that are going to be fought. During the American Revolution the colonists were seen as cowards and terrorists by the rest of the world because they didn't wear bright red and stand in line. It's all perspective.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: sp00nz on January 03, 2005, 01:18:00 PM
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Post by: pegasys on January 03, 2005, 12:22:00 PM
Post by: sp00nz on January 03, 2005, 01:18:00 PM
QUOTE(K98 @ Dec 25 2004, 04:52 AM)
Well how would you feel if family or friends were some of the people killed on 9/11 by ISLAM terrorists? I still would like to see where you people get these "shoot innocent children" "rape women" ideas from that our soldiers are apparently doing every 10 minutes.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on January 03, 2005, 08:29:00 PM
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I believe in an eye for an eye, but only for the person responsible. Eye for an eye, in a global sense does not work, it also does not work in a suicide attak because the guilty party is already dead.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: EverythingButAnAnswer on January 03, 2005, 09:12:00 PM
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Post by: pegasys on January 03, 2005, 08:29:00 PM
Post by: EverythingButAnAnswer on January 03, 2005, 09:12:00 PM
QUOTE(pegasys @ Jan 3 2005, 08:53 PM)
During the American Revolution the colonists were seen as cowards and terrorists by the rest of the world because they didn't wear bright red and stand in line.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: SKoT on January 04, 2005, 08:34:00 AM
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Post by: SKoT on January 04, 2005, 08:34:00 AM
QUOTE(EverythingButAnAnswer @ Jan 4 2005, 05:43 AM)
At least they still had honor and were respectable, they didn't cower behind women and children, and slaughter innocent people in a barbaric fashion. The Islamic extremists have no honor, and are fucking cowards.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: Baner on January 04, 2005, 09:10:00 AM
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Post by: Baner on January 04, 2005, 09:10:00 AM
QUOTE(pegasys @ Jan 3 2005, 02:53 PM)
The terrorists are extremely brave, they are sacraficing their lives for a cause, regardless of how horrible that cause might be. Terrorisum is the poor mans warfair. And since most of our enimies with the exeption of North Korea are "poor" thats the kinds of war that are going to be fought. During the American Revolution the colonists were seen as cowards and terrorists by the rest of the world because they didn't wear bright red and stand in line. It's all perspective.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: The unProfessional on January 04, 2005, 11:17:00 AM
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During the Revolutionary war, colonists were out-numbered and out-gunned, yet faced their enemies on open battlefields... face to face. You need to work on your definition of bravery.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on January 04, 2005, 01:03:00 PM
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I said it was horrible and terrible, but it is brave to sacrafice your life for a cause that you believe in(no matter how twisted and cruel it may be). They are using terrorist tactics, in my opinion it is a horrible, but valid form of warfare (alls fair in love and war), they don't have the resorces to fight a conventional war, so they must resort to terrorisum. They were against the way the entire worl worked, the world's capitalistic economies are. They wanted to bring down world trade, so they attacked the WTC, a civillian target. I believe in capitalisum, and I'm sure most of you do aswell, so that makes them "wrong". The terrorists are not soldiers in a traditional respect, but they are fighting a war, the only way they possibly have a chance of winning(I hope not). Put yourself in their shoes, what would you do if the entire world was communist, and you lived in a small poor capitalistic state, with virtually no recorces slowly being taken over by communisum. The only way to preserve you way of life was to resort to terrorisum, whould that be cowardly. The only cowardly thing that they have done is hide in schools and churches. They are using the only tactics that they can. War is hell and what they and we are doing is terrible, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I am against the terrorists, but at least I give them some respect, for the fact that they are fighting for what they believe. I would kill one in an instant if I had the oppertunity to stop them from hurting my country, but I wouldn't spit on their grave.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: EverythingButAnAnswer on January 04, 2005, 01:15:00 PM
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Suicide isn't brave. That is the easy way out, a cowards way. They deserve no fucking respect they attack innocent civilians, cower behind innocent women and children, they are no better than the dirt beneath my feet. You can't relate this to old times, because those were honorable times, when a man would admit defeat, and stand down to a superior foe. If you seriously believe they deserve fucking respect, you are a sadly mistaken, and it sickens me so that you feel that way.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on January 04, 2005, 01:23:00 PM
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Do you believe that the kamakazi(sp) in WWII were brave? I do, it's the same thing with terrorists. While I don't agree with attacking civillian targets(bombing pizza parlors and such), I believe that are brave, call them murderors hypocrits, whatevery you want, just not cowards. Is it honerable to send a cruise missile from 20 miles out, I don't think so, honor went out the window after we invented "modern warfair". In their eyes those who worked at the WTC were the guilty ones. the terroroista are an bunch of murdering brave damn sons of bitches who we need to defeate(imopssible because anyone can become a terrorist).
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: Baner on January 04, 2005, 01:40:00 PM
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Post by: The unProfessional on January 04, 2005, 11:17:00 AM
Post by: pegasys on January 04, 2005, 01:03:00 PM
Post by: EverythingButAnAnswer on January 04, 2005, 01:15:00 PM
Post by: pegasys on January 04, 2005, 01:23:00 PM
Post by: Baner on January 04, 2005, 01:40:00 PM
QUOTE(pegasys @ Jan 4 2005, 03:34 PM)
I said it was horrible and terrible, but it is brave to sacrafice your life for a cause that you believe in(no matter how twisted and cruel it may be). They are using terrorist tactics, in my opinion it is a horrible, but valid form of warfare (alls fair in love and war), they don't have the resorces to fight a conventional war, so they must resort to terrorisum. They were against the way the entire worl worked, the world's capitalistic economies are. They wanted to bring down world trade, so they attacked the WTC, a civillian target. I believe in capitalisum, and I'm sure most of you do aswell, so that makes them "wrong". The terrorists are not soldiers in a traditional respect, but they are fighting a war, the only way they possibly have a chance of winning(I hope not). Put yourself in their shoes, what would you do if the entire world was communist, and you lived in a small poor capitalistic state, with virtually no recorces slowly being taken over by communisum. The only way to preserve you way of life was to resort to terrorisum, whould that be cowardly. The only cowardly thing that they have done is hide in schools and churches. They are using the only tactics that they can. War is hell and what they and we are doing is terrible, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I am against the terrorists, but at least I give them some respect, for the fact that they are fighting for what they believe. I would kill one in an instant if I had the oppertunity to stop them from hurting my country, but I wouldn't spit on their grave.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on January 04, 2005, 01:52:00 PM
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The nazi soldiews who fought against the allies, those who killed and gassed peopl in concentration camps were cowards, they didn't put their lives on the line, they were just executioners. Hitler never went into battle, I don't know If i would call him a coward, but he def was insane/bad person ect.. We are slaughtering civilians and it is terrible, but it has to be done, we got ourselfs into this war and now we must win. our soldiers are brave. Maybe spit on their grave is not the right word, I would not call them cowards, I would curse their very existence, but I would never call them cowards, unless they just planted a bomb and left. The suicide bombers are not cowards.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: EverythingButAnAnswer on January 04, 2005, 02:11:00 PM
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Post by: pegasys on January 04, 2005, 01:52:00 PM
Post by: EverythingButAnAnswer on January 04, 2005, 02:11:00 PM
QUOTE(pegasys @ Jan 4 2005, 10:23 PM)
The nazi soldiews who fought against the allies, those who killed and gassed peopl in concentration camps were cowards, they didn't put their lives on the line, they were just executioners. Hitler never went into battle, I don't know If i would call him a coward, but he def was insane/bad person ect.. We are slaughtering civilians and it is terrible, but it has to be done, we got ourselfs into this war and now we must win. our soldiers are brave. Maybe spit on their grave is not the right word, I would not call them cowards, I would curse their very existence, but I would never call them cowards, unless they just planted a bomb and left. The suicide bombers are not cowards.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: SKoT on January 04, 2005, 02:59:00 PM
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Post by: SKoT on January 04, 2005, 02:59:00 PM
QUOTE(pegasys @ Jan 4 2005, 10:23 PM)
The nazi soldiews who fought against the allies, those who killed and gassed peopl in concentration camps were cowards, they didn't put their lives on the line, they were just executioners. Hitler never went into battle, I don't know If i would call him a coward, but he def was insane/bad person ect.. We are slaughtering civilians and it is terrible, but it has to be done, we got ourselfs into this war and now we must win. our soldiers are brave. Maybe spit on their grave is not the right word, I would not call them cowards, I would curse their very existence, but I would never call them cowards, unless they just planted a bomb and left. The suicide bombers are not cowards.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on January 04, 2005, 04:42:00 PM
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American's are killing off thousands of civilians. It is horrible, the soldiers who are fighting just follow orders. Civillians die in war thats why war should be avoided at all costs. In my opinion any soldier who gives their life for a cause, does not die a coward. Most people don't agree with me on this, but I truely do no believe that suicide bombers are cowards. coward-one who shows disgraceful fear or timidity, simply they are not cowards. I am not advocating what they did and the lives that were lost, I am simply saying that they are not cowards.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: futbol4kee on January 04, 2005, 05:22:00 PM
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: SKoT on January 04, 2005, 06:29:00 PM
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Post by: pegasys on January 04, 2005, 04:42:00 PM
Post by: futbol4kee on January 04, 2005, 05:22:00 PM
Post by: SKoT on January 04, 2005, 06:29:00 PM
QUOTE(futbol4kee @ Jan 5 2005, 01:53 AM)
all i have to say is i disagree with the idea of restricting right of anyone in america.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: sp00nz on January 04, 2005, 09:51:00 PM
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Post by: sp00nz on January 04, 2005, 09:51:00 PM
QUOTE(SKoT @ Jan 5 2005, 03:00 AM)
do you think america has ever been a TRULY free country?
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: melon on January 05, 2005, 03:52:00 AM
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Post by: melon on January 05, 2005, 03:52:00 AM
QUOTE(EverythingButAnAnswer @ Jan 4 2005, 10:42 PM)
You are a fucking idiot. First of all the Nazi's were one of the greatest, well trained, disciplined troops in the history of modern warfare. The Schutzstaffel (the group most closely associated with what went on in the concentration camps, but they were also skilled soldiers as well, i.e. the Waffen-SS) was the most revered fighting unit during World War II, some even believed they were invincible, that was until that first winter in Russia. From a militaristic stand point the German soldier was a respectable adversary. Hitler was a coward that was why he committed suicide, he was unwilling to stand by what he believed and face justice. These cowards we fight today from any stand point are not respectable; they do not fight with honor. You and your sick ideology fucking disgust me.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on January 05, 2005, 04:31:00 AM
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I appreciate that you agree with me, I think that our cowardly tactics are a way of trying to preserve american life. It's a political move, and effected by the fact that we don't have enugh troops over there to wage a proper war. Modern warfair init's self is dis-honerable. But shit happens. The only true honor is in physical combat, but that time is long gone. Hopefully this war will be over asap, and we will get a "coward" as president who trys to keep us out of war.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: Baner on January 05, 2005, 11:38:00 AM
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Hmm... hypocrit?
I think if you took the number of innocents supposedly killed by American soldiers / the number of American Soliders dead, it will be far less then the number of civilians dead in the WTC buildings / number of highjackers.
But our American soldiers are cowards, I like your thinking.
You didn't answer the question. It's a simple yes or no question, that can be followed by an explaination if need be.
Don't you win a war when you can finish your objective, with the least amount of casualities on your side? Armies look for weapons that a few people can use to take down a large group. It let's them use less man power, putting less of thier brethren at risk,and getting the job done at the same time. Sure, it can be cowardly, but it's better than pulling a D-day II.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: The unProfessional on January 05, 2005, 11:41:00 AM
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They enlisted voluntarily. They would probably come home given the choice... I would upon seeing my friends die. But they are there by choice in the first place, directly or indirectly.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: melon on January 05, 2005, 11:58:00 AM
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Im sorry Baner but your argument is incredulous. You compare about 2500 American deaths caused by Saudi Arabi's to 100,000 Iraqi civillian deaths caused by American and other foriegn troops and yes foriegn troops includes a lot of the insurgents fighting against our forces.
UnPro it was cowardly to bomb the twin towers. 300 British people died that day too but America doesn't just carpet bomb camps they capet bomb entire cities. Its old ground but you cant argu with America's history of causing astronomic civillian deaths.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: fishlord on January 05, 2005, 12:16:00 PM
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Post by: pegasys on January 05, 2005, 04:31:00 AM
Post by: Baner on January 05, 2005, 11:38:00 AM
QUOTE
American tactics are cowardly. That is why so many innocent civillians are dead.
Hmm... hypocrit?
I think if you took the number of innocents supposedly killed by American soldiers / the number of American Soliders dead, it will be far less then the number of civilians dead in the WTC buildings / number of highjackers.
But our American soldiers are cowards, I like your thinking.
QUOTE("peg")
American's are killing off thousands of civilians. It is horrible, the soldiers who are fighting just follow orders. Civillians die in war thats why war should be avoided at all costs. In my opinion any soldier who gives their life for a cause, does not die a coward. Most people don't agree with me on this, but I truely do no believe that suicide bombers are cowards. coward-one who shows disgraceful fear or timidity, simply they are not cowards. I am not advocating what they did and the lives that were lost, I am simply saying that they are not cowards.
You didn't answer the question. It's a simple yes or no question, that can be followed by an explaination if need be.
QUOTE
I appreciate that you agree with me, I think that our cowardly tactics are a way of trying to preserve american life. It's a political move, and effected by the fact that we don't have enugh troops over there to wage a proper war. Modern warfair init's self is dis-honerable. But shit happens. The only true honor is in physical combat, but that time is long gone. Hopefully this war will be over asap, and we will get a "coward" as president who trys to keep us out of war.
Don't you win a war when you can finish your objective, with the least amount of casualities on your side? Armies look for weapons that a few people can use to take down a large group. It let's them use less man power, putting less of thier brethren at risk,and getting the job done at the same time. Sure, it can be cowardly, but it's better than pulling a D-day II.
Post by: The unProfessional on January 05, 2005, 11:41:00 AM
QUOTE
How many American soldiers would return home if they could??
They enlisted voluntarily. They would probably come home given the choice... I would upon seeing my friends die. But they are there by choice in the first place, directly or indirectly.
Post by: melon on January 05, 2005, 11:58:00 AM
UnPro it was cowardly to bomb the twin towers. 300 British people died that day too but America doesn't just carpet bomb camps they capet bomb entire cities. Its old ground but you cant argu with America's history of causing astronomic civillian deaths.
Post by: fishlord on January 05, 2005, 12:16:00 PM
QUOTE(melon @ Jan 5 2005, 08:29 PM)
Its old ground but you cant argu with America's history of causing astronomic civillian deaths.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: SKoT on January 05, 2005, 12:20:00 PM
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i would rather see 1000 iraqis die that wouldnt listen to our army when we told them to leave the contested zones than 1 US soldier any day.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: Baner on January 05, 2005, 12:22:00 PM
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Post by: SKoT on January 05, 2005, 12:20:00 PM
Post by: Baner on January 05, 2005, 12:22:00 PM
QUOTE(melon @ Jan 5 2005, 02:29 PM)
Im sorry Baner but your argument is incredulous. You compare about 2500 American deaths caused by Saudi Arabi's to 100,000 Iraqi civillian deaths caused by American and other foriegn troops and yes foriegn troops includes a lot of the insurgents fighting against our forces.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: SKoT on January 05, 2005, 12:24:00 PM
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Post by: SKoT on January 05, 2005, 12:24:00 PM
QUOTE(fishlord @ Jan 5 2005, 08:47 PM)
cough.. nuking japan... cough
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: futbol4kee on January 05, 2005, 12:53:00 PM
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wow. u sir are an idiot.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: oswald on January 05, 2005, 12:57:00 PM
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Don't mistake not having time to put up with worthless, ignorant shit with fear. Discuss that stuff all you want, just don't do it here. I'm a mod, my job here is to keep things within the rules and on topic. You don't like it, go post somewhere else.
thanks, bye.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: Baner on January 05, 2005, 12:59:00 PM
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: SKoT on January 05, 2005, 01:14:00 PM
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i wouldnt want to live in a free country, duh
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on January 05, 2005, 02:15:00 PM
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Suicide bombers strap bombs to their chests knowing that they are going to die, if that isn't bravery I don't know what is. The terrorists are evil, america is a saint, believe that if you want, thats not what I am contesting. I am saying that suicide bombers are not cowards.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: The unProfessional on January 05, 2005, 02:36:00 PM
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It really is a matter of opinion. Not only that, but Bravery and Honor are NOT the same thing. Also, alot of things can be mistaken as courage - such as being dumb enough to sacrifice yourself at the request of religious zealots who're turning your peaceful religion into one of chaos and murder.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on January 05, 2005, 04:05:00 PM
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i agree.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: futbol4kee on January 05, 2005, 06:03:00 PM
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i said u sir are an idiot because of what he said specicially this
"yea, why dont we let out all the criminals, we are restricting their rights in prison."
why dont u read that hard and focus on it and see how it doesnt prove his point at all.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: SKoT on January 05, 2005, 06:22:00 PM
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Am i wrong when i say this?
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: melon on January 06, 2005, 01:55:00 AM
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yes, I donr think blowing yourself up is taking the easy way out. If it is there lives must be pretty shitty in the first place i.e. Palasatinians living in poverty.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on January 06, 2005, 04:24:00 AM
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Noone knows if they do it only for themselfs, we don
t know what they are thinking. I think that inorder to be the bomb, you have to be really dedicated to the cause.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: The unProfessional on January 06, 2005, 11:35:00 AM
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Brave, maybe (if killing oneself is brave). But in no way Honorable.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on January 06, 2005, 02:44:00 PM
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I never said honerable, and If i did i was wrong. It's killing yourself to kill others, using yourself as a weapon, not suicide.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: The unProfessional on January 06, 2005, 02:47:00 PM
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It's still suicide by definition. It's like saying those morons who shoot their wife and kids before killing themselves aren't committing suicide.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on January 06, 2005, 02:50:00 PM
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I really don't think it's the same thing.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pepsik on January 06, 2005, 03:21:00 PM
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those morons are fighting with a situation that is out their control and the only way to end the problem is to kill the mother the children and themselves. Same feeling of desperation with the same ending.
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Title: Polls For Restricting Rights Of Muslims-americans
Post by: pegasys on January 07, 2005, 04:24:00 AM
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I don't know how to respond to that, don't see that as brave, but i dunno, this is a very complex and moral issue.
Post by: futbol4kee on January 05, 2005, 12:53:00 PM
QUOTE
do you think america has ever been a TRULY free country?
yea, why dont we let out all the criminals, we are restricting their rights in prison.
yea, why dont we let out all the criminals, we are restricting their rights in prison.
wow. u sir are an idiot.
Post by: oswald on January 05, 2005, 12:57:00 PM
QUOTE
Oswald, thanks for proving my point that people are too afriad to talk about a certain few topics.
Don't mistake not having time to put up with worthless, ignorant shit with fear. Discuss that stuff all you want, just don't do it here. I'm a mod, my job here is to keep things within the rules and on topic. You don't like it, go post somewhere else.
thanks, bye.
Post by: Baner on January 05, 2005, 12:59:00 PM
Post by: SKoT on January 05, 2005, 01:14:00 PM
i wouldnt want to live in a free country, duh
Post by: pegasys on January 05, 2005, 02:15:00 PM
Post by: The unProfessional on January 05, 2005, 02:36:00 PM
Post by: pegasys on January 05, 2005, 04:05:00 PM
Post by: futbol4kee on January 05, 2005, 06:03:00 PM
"yea, why dont we let out all the criminals, we are restricting their rights in prison."
why dont u read that hard and focus on it and see how it doesnt prove his point at all.
Post by: SKoT on January 05, 2005, 06:22:00 PM
QUOTE
oh, suicide bombers ONLY do it for themselves. They are promised 72 virgins in paradise for killing infidels with their lives. They are taking the easy-way-out and just coping a loss.
Am i wrong when i say this?
Post by: melon on January 06, 2005, 01:55:00 AM
Post by: pegasys on January 06, 2005, 04:24:00 AM
t know what they are thinking. I think that inorder to be the bomb, you have to be really dedicated to the cause.
Post by: The unProfessional on January 06, 2005, 11:35:00 AM
Post by: pegasys on January 06, 2005, 02:44:00 PM
Post by: The unProfessional on January 06, 2005, 02:47:00 PM
Post by: pegasys on January 06, 2005, 02:50:00 PM
Post by: pepsik on January 06, 2005, 03:21:00 PM
those morons are fighting with a situation that is out their control and the only way to end the problem is to kill the mother the children and themselves. Same feeling of desperation with the same ending.
Post by: pegasys on January 07, 2005, 04:24:00 AM