Post by: madmab on April 18, 2011, 05:32:00 PM
*** important note *** - Old savestates do not work anymore.. Sorry guys..
* Running NTSC ROM's on a PAL xbox on a PAL tv should work properly now.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
* Perfect Pixel code now active. For real! Promise! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
* New game config option to "Show ROM Info On Game Start - Yes/No".
* "Show FPS" now works.
So if you have something you want activated now is the time to say it. No guarantees but I will give it a shot if I can.
I do plan on trying to add IPS support and a couple other "unnamed" features that I don't wanna go into just yet.
Post by: Master13 on April 18, 2011, 08:40:00 PM
Post by: XTecuterX73 on April 18, 2011, 08:42:00 PM
QUOTE(madmab @ Apr 18 2011, 07:32 PM) 
Ok I've updated to the 1.53 core.. here is the current changes (outside of the fixes that come with the core change)..
*** important note *** - Old savestates do not work anymore.. Sorry guys..
* Running NTSC ROM's on a PAL xbox on a PAL tv should work properly now.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
* Perfect Pixel code now active. For real! Promise! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
* New game config option to "Show ROM Info On Game Start - Yes/No".
* "Show FPS" now works.
So if you have something you want activated now is the time to say it. No guarantees but I will give it a shot if I can.
I do plan on trying to add IPS support and a couple other "unnamed" features that I don't wanna go into just yet.
hey madmab, in terms of comparability and the like, is it a noticeable upgrade as far as something like sound is concerned?
also is therea way to implement blaargs ntsc snes filter into this? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pop.gif)
great work and would love to hear from ya!
XT-
Post by: madmab on April 19, 2011, 01:12:00 AM
As far as sound goes, yes it is better for the most part. For example the power up sounds in Super mario world. It seems some games get a little static here and there, but it is possible that is a performance issue. I'll have to tinker with the sound settings a little and see what I come up with.
The reason being they switched from asm code for the cpu and a couple of the processors to just regular 'old C code. So it's possible performance in some areas may be slower. But my guess would be performance wise it's comparable to the Wii version.
As for the filter I think I will be able to enable some of them rather easily. (Don't get your hopes up just yet). However do not be surprised if there is a big performance hit with them activated.
Two of the biggest things for sure.. are better sound, and better savestate support for some of the exotic cart processors (like DSP, C4, etc). As well as numerous fixes that had unspecified results. I'll include the huge honkin changelist for anyone who feels like reading it.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Post by: Koitsu on April 19, 2011, 04:58:00 AM
Post by: brandonheat8 on April 19, 2011, 07:45:00 AM
QUOTE(Koitsu @ Apr 19 2011, 11:58 AM)
it's like being a kid and having your dad ask you if you want anything from the candy store...and you can't think of anything before he walks off...
Yup I know that feeling (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) so I better say this now, can you implement the rewind feature from Zsnexbox? I apologize in advance if this feature is already in (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) other than that just give it the old Madmab touch, you'll know what to do.
Post by: Consoleman! on April 19, 2011, 11:19:00 AM
It looks like the Snes9x team fixed the Mode 7 problems in Secret of Mana, so the solution I had posted for that shouldn't be needed now.
However, I still get a gold bar across the very bottom of the game screen whenever I select any of the software filters in v2. Anyone else notice this?
Post by: iamturok on April 19, 2011, 03:18:00 PM
QUOTE(Consoleman! @ Apr 19 2011, 11:19 AM)
I still get a gold bar across the very bottom of the game screen whenever I select any of the software filters in v2. Anyone else notice this?
I get this too, albeit a blue bar.
I have a request, I noticed that in v2, when you change the keymaps, they change for every game. Would it be possible to make these a per game change?
Post by: XTecuterX73 on April 19, 2011, 05:52:00 PM
please do let us know. and also if i could be of help, pm me. i might be able to look at some stuff and maybe help get the filter in place. let me know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Post by: madmab on April 20, 2011, 01:07:00 AM
QUOTE(iamturok @ Apr 19 2011, 05:18 PM)
I get this too, albeit a blue bar.
I have a request, I noticed that in v2, when you change the keymaps, they change for every game. Would it be possible to make these a per game change?
QUOTE(XTecuterX73 @ Apr 19 2011, 07:52 PM)
hey madmab thanks for the answers. after reading the official release looks like it was updated and the ntsc filter was added into it. cant wait to hear the sound, hopefully no more crackling on games like mortal kombat 2, and super mario worlds mushroom sound doesnt like crap anymore i hope, it always made me chuckle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
please do let us know. and also if i could be of help, pm me. i might be able to look at some stuff and maybe help get the filter in place. let me know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Post by: Retroplay on April 20, 2011, 04:31:00 AM
QUOTE(madmab @ Apr 19 2011, 01:32 AM)
Ok I've updated to the 1.53 core..
YESSS!!, for the first time we have correct sound emulation in Konami games such as Axelay, Super Castlevania IV, Contra III etc.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
No other SNES emu on XBOX can brag about that.
Post by: zorglub on April 20, 2011, 06:48:00 AM
Xtra sound engine is very good news indeed, thanks alot!
Post by: XTecuterX73 on April 20, 2011, 11:46:00 AM
any timeline on a release as well madmab>? no rush of course, but cant wait and ill help you any way i can. im back in the full swing of things so im good to do whatever man.
XT-
Post by: madmab on April 21, 2011, 01:04:00 AM
QUOTE(Retroplay @ Apr 20 2011, 06:31 AM)
YESSS!!, for the first time we have correct sound emulation in Konami games such as Axelay, Super Castlevania IV, Contra III etc.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
No other SNES emu on XBOX can brag about that.
It has, however, been reported to me by my crack team. Yes they are cracked!.. That sound is much better and I was also told that alot of games in the compatibility spreadsheet listed as "not working" work now. The biggest problem now is FX games (and maybe other custom chip games?) do not quite perform as well as snes9xbox v2. This could be due to all the processor cores being switched from ASM to C. I'm hoping I can figure something out over at the snes9x dev forums. Maybe I'll even be lucky enough to get some help from the team itself. Although most emu devs seem to run scared when the word Xbox is mentioned.
QUOTE(zorglub @ Apr 20 2011, 08:48 AM)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/jester.gif) Lightgun/mouse support feasible ?
Xtra sound engine is very good news indeed, thanks alot!
QUOTE(XTecuterX73 @ Apr 20 2011, 01:46 PM)
any timeline on a release as well madmab>? no rush of course, but cant wait and ill help you any way i can. im back in the full swing of things so im good to do whatever man.
XT-
I got the Blarggg NTSC filters going. However as I suspected they do cause a performance hit and I've only come across one game that even plays full speed with them enabled... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
Post by: XTecuterX73 on April 21, 2011, 09:21:00 AM
XT-
Post by: Dante_Ali on April 24, 2011, 07:21:00 AM
Great that somebody has finally ported over a recent version of SNES9x to Xbox 1 now.
I do know for a fact that zones' IRQ/SA-1 changes have had a big performance impact in 1.53 (Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius for instance is well above 60fps in the character select screen without them - with the zones IRQ/SA-1 changes, it dips below 53fps) - that's why I'm not using them (I develop the PS3 port) and neither does the Wii devs (dborth).
It would be interesting to see how well this code runs on x86. I know a couple of games that are very demanding on PS3 that you could test:
1 - Star Fox 2 - this will drop to 55/56fps regularly - perhaps even a bit more in some of the indoor areas.
2 - Romancing Saga 3 - when you go to the 'equip'/'menu screen' (with the 6 characters/sprites on top of a hi-res 512x224 screen) - the framerate will drop to 40fps.
3 - Seiken Densetsu 3 - if you select Angela as your first character and bring up the 'equip/menu screen' when you're outside, it will drop to 40fps. The equip menu screen is another one of these instances where the SNES goes into hi-res 512x224 - but for some reason, it seems to only drop down massively with these two games in particular - Kirby's Dreamland 3 runs at well above 60fps in levels where 512x224 gets used.
Now the weird thing is - for ANY of the other characters (Duran/Hawk/Kevin/Riesz/whatever), this does not happen at all. That's what makes me think it's some kind of display bug in SNES9x.
4- Vortex - similarly slow as Star Fox 2 - drops to about 57/55/53fps depending on the situation.
I've put most of these performance problems down to the fact that the original code is full of branches and made some amends to make the code blocks bigger so there are less branches which would flush the pipeline all the time.
One way I cut down on some of the branches is to make three codepaths - one for SuperFX games, one for SA-1 and one for regular games - no SA-1/SuperFX basically. That way, I can leave out all of the SuperFX/SA-1 branches in the regualr codepath - you can setup these codepaths easily in SNES9x because Settings.SA1 or Settings.SuperFX always gets set in memmap.cpp while the ROM is loaded by SNES9x - so we know when a game has been loaded that has a SA-1 or SuperFX co-chip. Based on that knowledge, we can point it to a modified S9xMainLoop.
Now obviously, an x86 out-of-order CPU should have far less problems with this codebase, so let's hear how this Xbox version performs with the above mentioned games. Hell, I'd gladly whip out my Xbox 1 and go test it myself - it will certainly be laughable if a Celeron 733 performs better than the Cell 3.2GHz PPU.
Another thing that made a big difference on PS3 - removing virtual function call overhead - you can take a look at how I modified the APU code in the PS3 port - perhaps it will make a difference on Xbox 1 as well.
This post has been edited by Dante_Ali: Apr 24 2011, 02:42 PM
Post by: madmab on April 24, 2011, 11:56:00 AM
Here is what I posted over at the snes9x forums.
QUOTE
ok. Well I managed to get 1.52 working with the SuperFX and C4 ASM cores. Took a little bit of finagling to get it to compile but it finally did. So SMW2 seems to run a fair bit better. Also threw in the EWJ 2 sound fixes too boot. Plus for some reason SM RPG seems to be going at a fair speed as well. In fact I noticed some mistakes I made when doing the svn (1.53 whatever) so I might go back over that one again with those changes just to see how it performs.
Had a bit of a scare there when I noticed the messed up background tiles in Donkey Kong Country.. but I found the fix in the fix4 fix.. fix.. fix..
NTSC filters still pretty much suck but they do run pretty fair on PAL roms.. (talk about ironic).
Had a bit of a scare there when I noticed the messed up background tiles in Donkey Kong Country.. but I found the fix in the fix4 fix.. fix.. fix..
NTSC filters still pretty much suck but they do run pretty fair on PAL roms.. (talk about ironic).
Once I clean up the 1.53 stuff.. I'll look into what you mentioned for the APU code. I suspected the APU code may be contributing a little to slow down.
Post by: Dante_Ali on April 24, 2011, 12:45:00 PM
Just for your information - here is the last commit before Zones added the SA-1/IRQ improvements that costs you about 10-15fps - this is the one commit I skip - as does the Wii port.
https://github.com/snes9xgit/snes9x/commit/...d844291e234ad9a
It is possible to not apply this single patch ( https://github.com/snes9xgit/snes9x/commit/...8fbc3ddc25cc173 ) and still backport the patches after that - it requires a little manual labor but I think the extra speed is absolutely worth it.
BTW - with regards to NTSC filters and graphics filters - this is the one saving grace the PS3 has - we can rely on the GPU (RSX is like a SLI Geforce 7800) and run Cg shaders - we have ported over most of the popular filters to Cg (well, they were already ported to GLSL by guest earlier - we just took them and converted most of them to Cg shaders, along with some of our own additions) - so we can avoid the performance impact that running these filters imposes on the CPU..
The only 'filter' we have not yet ported to Cg in fact is Blargg's NTSC filter - this is BTW to my knowledge the most CPU-intensive filter there is, so yeah, there might be no hope getting that to run at 60fps with most games on Xbox 1.
Hmmm, Xbox 1 supports Pixel Shader 1.0x, right? Perhaps you can rely on that instead.
This post has been edited by Dante_Ali: Apr 24 2011, 07:48 PM
Post by: madmab on April 24, 2011, 01:38:00 PM
Yeah sadly taking out the ASM cores does not help us xbox users.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) In addition typically making an emulator "more accurate" usually kills us as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/jester.gif)
As for shaders.. yes the xbox does have them.. but I do not have a clue how to do them. Anyway I could be pointed in the right direction?
This post has been edited by madmab: Apr 24 2011, 09:03 PM
Post by: Dante_Ali on April 24, 2011, 06:43:00 PM
Would probably be fun coding for it now - now that there's a tight knit community around it and that it's basically an x86.
I don't know how limited the shader capabilities are since we are talking about a very old Shader Model that the Xbox 1 supports - but you should be able to do some stuff with it at least. I don't really have any experience beyond NVidia Cg at the moment, sorry.
This post has been edited by Dante_Ali: Apr 25 2011, 01:43 AM
Post by: madmab on April 26, 2011, 01:42:00 AM
I then spent time tweaking around with the sound to get it running more smoothly since there were the occasional glitches and hiccups. So I got that taken care of. Unless the framerate starts getting low, at which point the sound gets rather choppy. I did break fast forward so I'm working on fixing that. NTSC filters are still a wash.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) With a drop of up to 10fps that is gonna be a hard one to overcome.
Post by: XTecuterX73 on April 26, 2011, 10:32:00 AM
QUOTE(madmab @ Apr 26 2011, 03:42 AM)
ok just a small little update. I spent most of the weekend working on 1.52 and getting the FX/C4 ASM cores going. Took a little bit of work since they stop using them at one point so I had to modify the code a bit to get them to compile. While doing this I realized I missed something in 1.53 so once I got 1.52 done and running fairly decent I went back over 1.53 and now they both seem to be running at comparable speeds. So I'm not sure whether the ASM core is helping much.
I then spent time tweaking around with the sound to get it running more smoothly since there were the occasional glitches and hiccups. So I got that taken care of. Unless the framerate starts getting low, at which point the sound gets rather choppy. I did break fast forward so I'm working on fixing that. NTSC filters are still a wash.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) With a drop of up to 10fps that is gonna be a hard one to overcome.
very great news indeed madmab! so in other words everything is pretty good looking unless you use the ntsc filters correct? and rewind being broken? even with that, this all sounds great. the new sound core is spot on and pretty accurate and the fixes make alot of games now playable. seems like snes9x has become more accurate then even zsnesxbox it seems.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/pop.gif)
Post by: Consoleman! on April 27, 2011, 04:32:00 AM
QUOTE(madmab @ Apr 26 2011, 02:42 AM)
ok just a small little update. I spent most of the weekend working on 1.52 and getting the FX/C4 ASM cores going. Took a little bit of work since they stop using them at one point so I had to modify the code a bit to get them to compile. While doing this I realized I missed something in 1.53 so once I got 1.52 done and running fairly decent I went back over 1.53 and now they both seem to be running at comparable speeds. So I'm not sure whether the ASM core is helping much.
I then spent time tweaking around with the sound to get it running more smoothly since there were the occasional glitches and hiccups. So I got that taken care of. Unless the framerate starts getting low, at which point the sound gets rather choppy. I did break fast forward so I'm working on fixing that. NTSC filters are still a wash.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) With a drop of up to 10fps that is gonna be a hard one to overcome.
Too bad about the ASM cores. With exception to the NTSC filter, how's the speed with the other software filters on vs. leaving them off?
Post by: cheema201 on April 27, 2011, 12:43:00 PM
A600 is back, madmab is in full flight. Squarpusher is gonna join the party (maybe haha). Next Xport is gonna stop by to give you a hand madmab haha.
I have no requests, you seem to have it under control. Someone has already mentioned light gun support - which would certainly be welcome.
Keep up the good work mate. You're an inspiration.
Post by: madmab on February 02, 2020, 11:09:00 PM
Anyways I noticed that 1.51 runs quite a bit faster than 1.52-1.53.. so chances are the new and improved sound engine is where the slowdown is. I'm gonna tinker with getting the old sound code working in 1.53 just for curiosity sakes. If the speed improves maybe I can find some way to modify the code so the sound engine can be selectable. For those who dont mind the poorer sound quality for speed improvements.
Post by: Dante_Ali on February 03, 2020, 10:49:00 AM
I think it could work out well - there are no real platform-specific things in there - it's just a big cleanup of the core code overall - some big branches that got taken out in the process that might help speed.
BTW - I tested SNES9Xbox v2 yesterday - there seems to be something wrong with the sound - it doesn't sound like blargg's APU core to me - which should be nearly flawless sound on any game. You can hear this clearly even in Super Mario World - the Mario jumping sound doesn't sound right. Again, I don't know what's up in this regard since there is no source for me to look at. I do know that SNES9x PS3 and SNES9x Wii, being pretty much based on 1.52, sound flawless compared to this. (even though the Wii version has some sound pops)
On another note - I think it's relatively safe at this point to start putting up Google Code projects with just the source on there for Xbox 1 - I've done the same for PS3 (knowing full well you need the official SDK to compile it) and nothing happened whatsoever - and this is with the whole shit storm with Sony at the moment where every dev is looking over his shoulder quivering in fear of big bad Sony. So, given that Xbox 1 is obsolete, I think there's no harm in doing this - might even lead to some collaborative effort going.
BTW - just booting Xbox 1 again yesterday reminded me of just how good this console was for homebrew/emulators. Holy shit - even Streets of Rage v5 is playable on this - this is definitely still the best console out there for homebrew stuff - forget PS3/360/Wii at the moment, looking at it from a raw speed perspective - there's really nothing to be jealous of other than nearly zero-cost shaders (which means you can run something like HQ2x or even better with no speed loss). No homebrew coder ever coded for the SPUs, so it's all just running on the PPU - which is notoriously weak - probably a bit better than the Xbox 1 CPU if you rewrite the code well enough, but that's it.
It just sucks that you have to go out of your way to install an ancient version of Visual Studio - and especially the source code conventions are really 'ugh' after being accustomed to proper ANSI C/C++98 for so long on PS3 - Visual C++ is like a big 'WTF is this' in that regard.
This post has been edited by Dante_Ali: Yesterday, 07:01 PM
Post by: madmab on February 03, 2020, 02:15:00 PM
Where's the source?
Snes9xbox v1 and v2 were based on Snes9x 1.42.. which goes a way back hence the reason for sound differences. In fact the new APU was not implemented until 1.52. 1.51 runs on a comparable speed to 1.42 however it sounds the same. Hence the conclusion concerning the sound. Whether it's enough to gain a full 10fps needed to get some games running good is another story.
Post by: Dante_Ali on February 03, 2020, 02:41:00 PM
That would explain a lot.
Alright. Guess I know where to go from here then. I'll try the modified core and see what I get.
Post by: madmab on February 03, 2020, 05:49:00 PM
X-port does all his rendering in CXboxsample::Render_To_Texture.. Sound code is in sndxbox.cxx and is called from snes9xbox.cpp. I had to remove that call and replace it with the call back.. pointed the callback to the sound code ->process in sndxboxx.cxx.
That's just a quick summary.. Plenty of time.. I still have somethings I wanna do and I still have to take a looksey at mouse and lightgun stuff.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
For the misinformed..
It's the NTSC filters and NOT the scanline filters that eat up CPU time.. In fact Blarggh himself says they are rather intensive and the SNES9X guys as well..
QUOTE
"Running the filter at 60 frames per second uses 8% CPU on a 2.0 GHz Athlon PC and 40% CPU on a 400 MHz PowerMac G3, making it suitable for use on almost any system"
QUOTE
2.)
The NTSC filter is very cpu intensive, I don't think you can do very much about that (other than hoping that someone creates a shader that does the same).
The NTSC filter is very cpu intensive, I don't think you can do very much about that (other than hoping that someone creates a shader that does the same).
This post has been edited by madmab: Today, 02:36 AM
Post by: XTecuterX73 on February 03, 2020, 08:20:00 PM
Post by: DarthMingus on May 08, 2011, 08:20:00 AM
QUOTE(madmab @ May 8 2011, 06:48 AM) 
Yeah dont worry about the "Set Auto Max Skip Frames to 1" to YES for now. It cuts the FPS down to like 30fps.. but like you said the animation is not as smooth, even if the game is more playable.
I'm gonna be upping a zip file with three versions of snes9xbox.. 1.51, 1.52, and 1.53. Do me a favor and try Contra III and FF VI in 1.52 (and 1.51 if you feel like it but 1.51 has the old sound engine). Let me know how 1.52 does compared to 1.53.
Once I'm done getting that up to the FTP I'm gonna send dante_ali those and the source for 1.53 (or anything else he happens to need).
Oh and I'll add Aladdin to my ever growing list of games to check..
Post by: gilles9999 on May 09, 2011, 10:52:00 AM
1.51 core: no slowdowns at all, but no sound at all lol (look like the sound engine is muted in this default.xbe
1.52: same slowdowns like in 1.53
1.53 core: slowdowns in the mentioned games
mm, smell like the new sound engine produce the slowdowns eh
good luck madmab
Post by: madmab on May 09, 2011, 02:37:00 PM
Sound will cut out if you try to load a 1.52-1.53 savestate with 1.51 (incompatible). That is probably what was happening (hopefully).
I passed it onto ali_dante to see if he could get some speed improvements out of it.
Edit: Whoops looks like the sound is mute on 1.51.. must got some of the code crossed between 1.51 and 1.53 when trying a few experiments.
Post by: madmab on May 10, 2011, 10:09:00 AM
Only odd thing is with the ONE justifier game you have to point the lightgun to the top left corner of the screen to reload. Press START on your lightgun to start the game. Or if you are using mouse/controller press right mouse to reload, whatever button is assigned to SNES "B" to reload on the controller.
Post by: madmab on May 10, 2011, 12:10:00 PM
Post by: guitarjerry on May 17, 2011, 12:23:00 AM
Post by: madmab on May 17, 2011, 12:59:00 AM
Post by: XTecuterX73 on May 17, 2011, 12:04:00 PM
Post by: madmab on May 17, 2011, 05:35:00 PM
Alot of changes that will affect all the emu's since it is mostly interface related.
Post by: Dante_Ali on May 17, 2011, 07:08:00 PM
sorry for dropping off for so long.
I guess I will finally attend to the Xbox 1 port and seeing if I can wring some more speed out of it. I've made some good overall improvements to the PS3 version - these are all changes that are platform-agnostic, so they could benefit the Wii or the Xbox 1 too.
Besides that, I've really gotten quite sick and tired of the PS3 scene and the pathetic users there all updating to official firmware as soon as they can't play their latest gamez - so I'm guessing my efforts are better spent for some time on a platform where people are still holding strong after so many years and still giving a shit as opposed to these kids that just want to play their LA Noire and whatever game is the 'hot shit' this week.
Post by: Rixus on May 17, 2011, 09:00:00 PM
I really want to thank you and madmab for all your work!
Dante, I really appreciate all your work on the ps3 front even if there is... some not so nice people out there...just know there are those who very much appreciate it
Anyways, xbox really is my fav. emulation console, if you could squeeze more speed and get it playable that would awesome!
Thank you both again!
Post by: XTecuterX73 on May 17, 2011, 09:16:00 PM
Post by: butanebob on May 17, 2011, 10:58:00 PM
I'm really looking forward to giving this new emu a whirl, i'll even have to buy another xbox off ebay coz my last one stopped working.
Post by: madmab on May 18, 2011, 12:35:00 AM
But really.. things have slowed down to a crawl in the ps3 arena. So much potential there but no one seems to be moving. Plus like ali dante said... kiddies cant live without being able to log onto PSN and play their latest HOTZ game. I solved that problem with my 360 a long time ago. We have one 360 for online play and the other two have hacked DVD drives.
So if I ever did get the urge to use PSN I would probably just go out and get myself a PS3 specifically for that. That way I would not have to worry about things like that.
Post by: Consoleman! on May 19, 2011, 04:03:00 AM
Seems like a better time investment than banging your head on the table trying to squeeze more speed out of the newer build.
Post by: madmab on May 19, 2011, 04:14:00 AM
The other option... having a 1.51 and 1.53 to choose between has one small problem of incompatible savestates which I fear may confuse some people. Luckily SRAM is still the same. So if I chose to go this route I may have to resort to just making the naming of the savestates different between the two to at least prevent accidental loading of incompatible savestates.
But that does not remove the possibility of user confusion.. "where'd my savestates go?".. doh!
Post by: Consoleman! on May 19, 2011, 04:41:00 AM
QUOTE(madmab @ May 19 2011, 05:14 AM)
Well I tried various experiments to see if could get the 1.52 sound core to work in 1.54 and vice versa. But sadly too many features were change, removed, and moved around to really make that practical. At this point I'm still not sure if the sound core is the culprit. Although it is pretty high on my list.
The other option... having a 1.51 and 1.53 to choose between has one small problem of incompatible savestates which I fear may confuse some people. Luckily SRAM is still the same. So if I chose to go this route I may have to resort to just making the naming of the savestates different between the two to at least prevent accidental loading of incompatible savestates.
But that does not remove the possibility of user confusion.. "where'd my savestates go?".. doh!
With choosing between audio engines no longer an option, this multi-build idea seems like a pretty good solution.
How would it work exactly? Would one of the builds operate as the main build, while the second build gets loaded only when called upon? If so, it might make sense for the build, which will likely be used the most, to be designated as the main build so most games will load up at normal speed.
I know first hand how disappointing troubleshooting can be. Glad you did it though, because now you have a better idea of what exactly needs done.
Post by: XTecuterX73 on May 19, 2011, 07:30:00 AM
Project is in good hands.
Post by: madmab on May 20, 2011, 12:49:00 AM
Post by: Consoleman! on May 20, 2011, 07:00:00 AM
QUOTE(madmab @ May 20 2011, 01:49 AM)
Well it'd be kinda hard to determine which build would used the most. I guess it depends on if the end user wants full fluid speed and crappy sound, or possible slowdown with good sound. For example after testing "Contra 3" in the old engine after using the new one... blech.. it sounds like shit.
Well, with the old build most games play at full speed. That, to me at least, is more important than perfect sound. If you go with that build, you won't need to force any of the chipped games to use the newer build, but the user will likely want to switch to the new build for Konami and other games that make use of the sound improvement.
Each build has it's faults, so the question is how do the non-chipped and non-Konami games run as a whole with the new build? How do they run with filters?
My best guess is that filters will harm fps in some games.
Post by: madmab on May 20, 2011, 08:23:00 AM
Post by: cheema201 on May 21, 2011, 09:55:00 AM
It's a shame that we are looking at a multi core build, but only for all the questions that will arise. Especially involving the savestates as madmab has already mentioned. But I guess in the end it will create a higher compatibility, which is what good emulation is all about. Personally I would prefer fluent gameplay over sound quality, if the sound gets annoying i'd just mute it haha. It's good to give people that option though, people like options haha.
At Squarpusher - I have been using your snes emulator on my ps3 and have been quite impressed. I use your emulator plus mednafen mostly on my ps3. I have read through some stuff at the ps3 scene but never once felt like joining, only because the playstation scene seems to be filled with people that take things just a bit too seriously. Madmab is right but, the PSP scene isn't as bad. I actually am part of the PSP scene, and there are some chilled out people there. Anyways, best of luck with any future developments you can bring to the xbox scene. I'm sure it'll be very much appreciated!
Cheers,
Post by: XTecuterX73 on May 26, 2011, 12:16:00 AM
Post by: madmab on May 26, 2011, 01:09:00 AM
Post by: Xtra-Radical on June 01, 2011, 01:51:00 AM
This thread says speak now or hold yer peace, so count this noob in as one who wants to see the updated sound core included. Much appreciation to Madmab and the Xtras team for everything. Thanks for all that time and work with no pay.
If it is possible to choose between cores, then that would be cool too. So count me among those users out there who don't normally post, that is excited about this new upgraded core.
Post by: XTecuterX73 on June 02, 2011, 11:56:00 AM
XT-
Post by: Dante_Ali on June 02, 2011, 01:17:00 PM
The main reason is - I'm trying to 'cleanly' commit all the changes I did to SNES9x PS3 to this repository here -
https://github.com/s...her/snes9x-slim
It's still far - far from done - I'd say not even approaching 10% so far. Most of it is going to be driven by defines - setting defines will rip out parts of SNES9x that we won't need.
Perhaps madmab wants to join the snes9x-slim project as a collaborator - perhaps he can start looking for some parts to optimize too.
Post by: madmab on June 07, 2011, 01:18:00 AM
However keep in mind the speed issues still exist. But I am making numerous changes to the overall interface which will affect future emu's so I need as much feedback as possible. Hopefully by the time the dust stirs maybe dante ali will have come up with a speedup.
Post by: madmab on June 22, 2011, 02:59:00 AM
It's kinda hard to explain. Best example I've seen so far shows how to change the color of the pixels, or even switch the RGB pixels. But that is hardly enough to do something as sophisticated as a filter.
Anywho I think I got the speed issue figured out (for non special chip games). Just waiting for my cracked, uh I mean crack beta team to report back to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
This post has been edited by madmab: Jun 22 2011, 10:01 AM
Post by: Rage518 on June 22, 2011, 06:45:00 AM
Post by: NobodyHere on June 22, 2011, 07:44:00 AM
Post by: madmab on June 22, 2011, 08:15:00 AM
QUOTE(NobodyHere @ Jun 22 2011, 09:44 AM)
I apparently won't be beta testing. Not that I mind really, but I don't want to seem like I'm not good for my word.
Post by: XTecuterX73 on June 22, 2011, 09:33:00 AM
Post by: madmab on June 24, 2011, 03:15:00 AM
Super FX and chip games however are a different story. Between the new sound core and a lack of an ASM core we get the speed loss even at 480i/p. However I have not had a chance to confirm C4 games running at 480p (Megaman).. but I think they are ok (someone feel like checking)?
So what does this mean? It means that pretty much the new sound core is the culprit. At one point I ruled out the sound engine because we were not getting buffer underruns on the sound engine and the sound synch code was not kicking in so I was at the time beginning to think it was something else. But apparently this is not the case.
So one of the things I'm gonna do is add an option to select the video mode that each game runs in. This will allow you to set slower running games to 480p to make up for the speed loss. We had discussed this in the past with pcsxbox and dosxbox because those emu's have a similar situation where some games run perfectly fine at 720p. So I guess now is the time to do it now that I'm storing all the game screensizes for each game anyways.
Another option is to modify Snes9xbox so that you can launch 1.51 with the old sound core. Sure there will be definite speed improvements. So if 720p and speed with old sound is more important to you then this would be the core to use. Or if you are not satisfied running Super FX games with "Set Auto Max Skip Frames To 1" to yes then this would also be the way to go.
However there is a big catch 22. The savestates are incompatible between 1.51 and 1.53. So we would have to come up with some way to deal with that to minimize user confusion. One way would be to have the savestates named differently between versions so that a savestate saved in one core will not show up in the other. Although I can see people getting confused wondering where their savestates are. The other option would be to do version checking on the loading of a savestate and if you are using say 1.51 and trying to load a 1.53 it would say "This savestate was saved under Snes9xbox 1.53 core". This may be a little less confusing and more of an annoyance on the users part.
Of course then there is the lazy option and just include two seperate cores and let the user use which ever one floats their boat... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Unless dante_ali manages to work some magic with the apu sound core.
I could probably tinker around with the sound output rate and sound filter of the new apu core. However all the times I tried tinkering with those it didnt seem to make any diference.
QUOTE(NobodyHere @ Jun 22 2011, 09:44 AM)
I apparently won't be beta testing. Not that I mind really, but I don't want to seem like I'm not good for my word.
This would help accomodate games that may have multiple different patch files for them.
Post by: Retroplay on June 24, 2011, 05:26:00 AM
Sound in Snes9x 1.51 and 1.52 is not that bad if "envelope height reading" is enabled.
Games such as Axelay, Batman Returns, Castlevania, Contra etc. actually sounds just fine if that's enabled.
The Wii port is based on 1.52 and it sounds just fine to me.
Post by: madmab on June 24, 2011, 05:56:00 AM
QUOTE(Retroplay @ Jun 24 2011, 07:26 AM)
Speaking of sound core.
Sound in Snes9x 1.51 and 1.52 is not that bad if "envelope height reading" is enabled.
Games such as Axelay, Batman Returns, Castlevania, Contra etc. actually sounds just fine if that's enabled.
The Wii port is based on 1.52 and it sounds just fine to me.
Anyways thanks for mentioning that option. I'll enable it and pass it onto the testers. If it improves the sound good enough then maybe I could get away with doing two seperate versions and then the user can run whichever one appeases to them. The snes9xbox build I have running at 1.51 aint half bad outside of not having the new apu sound core, and some support for a few more DSP chips and other odds and ends.
But I could keep all the bells and whistles in 1.53 and then 1.51 would have the basic stuff like lightgun support, mouse, IPS patching and all the normal core related junk.
This post has been edited by madmab: Jun 24 2011, 02:43 PM
Post by: Retroplay on June 24, 2011, 07:45:00 AM
So why not just stick to 1.51 with that enabled instead, speed issues should not be a problem then and I don't seem to remember having any problematic games using that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Post by: Consoleman! on June 24, 2011, 08:08:00 AM
A single build with alternate sound core options is probably the way to go since that would eliminate any delay when switching between builds. The question is, which resolution do most people play at? For example, if 480i/p, then 1.53 should be run as the default.
If enabling "envelope height reading for Snes9x 1.51" can be done without interfering with 1.53, that could really help for people running 1.51. The question is whether or not this should be enabled by default along with the 1.51 core. I also think it would help if core specific options included the name of the core they're to be used with.
Perhaps you can make "This savestate was saved under Snes9xbox 1.53 core" an option that can be disabled for those who find it annoying. Disabling that feature shouldn't be a problem when using a separate naming scheme for 1.53 saves. 1.51 saves using the old scheme might make sense for backwards compatibility with older builds.
And last...
Congrats on pinpointing the speed problem, madmab. Very impressive. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
This post has been edited by Consoleman!: Jun 24 2011, 03:11 PM
Post by: Consoleman! on June 24, 2011, 08:39:00 AM
QUOTE(Consoleman! @ Jun 4 2010, 09:14 PM)
It's been reported that "Volume Envelope Height Reading" desyncs and/or locks up some games including the Bomberman series. Supposedly, the -soundsync option in Snes9x solves the problems caused by enabling "Volume Envelope Height Reading," but at the expense of emulation speed.
This may be why it's disabled by default in Snes9x.
I posted this about a year ago about Volume Height Reading. In addition to the above problems, having it on may also mess up sounds for games that don't need it.
This may be why it's disabled by default in Snes9x.
Post by: Retroplay on June 24, 2011, 08:50:00 AM
Just like NeoGenesis for example where you also have an option to overclock 68000 which breaks some games and benefit others.
Post by: NobodyHere on June 24, 2011, 07:26:00 PM
QUOTE(madmab @ Jun 24 2011, 10:15 AM)
Is there a reason? I really could use someone to test some IPS patching. No one has stepped up yet to do it. I got to thinking I might be best off adding it as an option in either the game config screen or the in-game menu as opposed to having it autoload an IPS if a matching filename is found in the zip.
This would help accomodate games that may have multiple different patch files for them.
This...
QUOTE
You are not authorised to read this forum.
Post by: bigby on June 24, 2011, 08:12:00 PM
Seriously though, we just need the EmuXtras admin to allow you access. Should be soon...
This post has been edited by bigby: Jun 25 2011, 03:14 AM
Post by: madmab on June 25, 2011, 12:33:00 AM
Anywho I'll be working on getting some of those things in.. see how well they pan out.