Post by: splash911 on July 16, 2004, 09:29:00 PM
First, sorry for my poor english.
What is it? It is a box which makes it possible to record television live. You can PAUSE, move back a few minutes, jump commercial breaks and especially, record live TV. It is already sold on high-end systems. Rather than a video tape recorder, the data is recorded on the hard disk (buffer memory).
Goals : Integrated a software solution into XBMC and in Xbox to allow these functionalities of interactive television. From the material point of view, two solutions are considered at present, see below.
Required Functionnalities + Importance degree :
PAUSE (CRITICAL)
Fast rewind (5 secs-1 min) (CRITICAL)
Jumb back (up to 30 min) (HIGH)
Skip commercials break (LOW)
Record Live TV (CRITICAL)
Encode video data to Xvid or Divx (MEDIUM)
Audio encoding to mp3 (MEDIUM)
Integrated to XBMC as iTV (HIGH)
PC free (MEDIUM, high difficulty)
Remote Channel Selection (HIGH)
Nice apperance (MEDIUM)
What are the current solutions ?
1- The XBOX is connected on the LAN. The coaxial entry of television is connected on an apparatus which will seek the frequency band of the necessary station (selected remotely), digitizes it and transmits it out on UDP package on the LAN. The XBOX, via XBMC, will be able to activate and close this numerisator, to choose the station to be listened, to read the stream and to display it. XBMC and its new module iTV, to be conceived thereafter, will manage all the functionalities to be established.
2- To replace the numerisator by a software on a PC (on the same LAN as Xbox) which will take the acquisition of the video chart and to send it over the LAN stream.
What is the schedule ?
For the moment, the startup of the project depends on its popularity. I will wait until the end August to recruit people and to possibly be able to test project 2 (simple). Once this stage reached, if the request for a numerisator is large, I will try to seek if this product exists, how much it costs, and how to integrate this solution into our project.
Briefly :
Jully- August: - Startup of the project
- Training of the team
- design Beginning of the software and analyzes feasibility of the various options
- Test of option 2
September - Seek and design the numerisator for the solution #1
- Improvement of the software, addition of functionality
- Recording optimization (encoding of quality and effective)
October-December ? - Dependently of the difficulty of buying, of assembling, or of designing the numerisator, evaluation of advance.
- Xbox Software (via XBMC) and PC (releases)
Due date : 31 december 2004 or before!
Actual Team
Xlash (Splash911 on X-S) - Network & Hardware & Electronic & Telecommunications
Shadownet - Software & Data acquisition
This project raises great challenges which we will not be able to take up alone. If you are interested by this project, a part, or that you know what already exists, we await your collaboration for finally supplementing the center of entertainment which Xbox occupies in a family room! We don't have any Xbox software development yet, but we will need any help as offered.
Official forum is in french on XBOXSTYLE.com. An active subject will be on Gueux.NET, and on Xbox-scene.com
Thanks to the Xbox Scene, and sorry for my poor english!
This post has been edited by splash911: Jul 17 2004, 04:30 AM <
Post by: bx2a5z on July 16, 2004, 10:16:00 PM
(Oh, and BTW, no need to apologize for your English. It's more understandable than a lot of native English speakers around here!
) <
Post by: splash911 on July 16, 2004, 10:46:00 PM
Thanks for your support, we will wait to get enough developper (as needed) and to see if the project is interesting enough for you guys.
C ya <
Post by: UnLckyN on July 16, 2004, 10:46:00 PM
Post by: drRAVALOT on July 17, 2004, 07:42:00 AM
Post by: splash911 on July 17, 2004, 08:16:00 AM
Post by: Lukenatme on July 17, 2004, 09:42:00 AM
Post by: RcbUK on July 17, 2004, 12:28:00 PM
Post by: drRAVALOT on July 17, 2004, 10:26:00 PM
i love going on xbox scene on my xbox lol w00t!thanks 2 linksboks! <
Post by: wolf202 on July 17, 2004, 10:41:00 PM
record live tv best of luckbe the first in line to test and dl this thingy 
lol
Post by: splash911 on July 18, 2004, 01:25:00 PM
Gamester17 from XBMC will put me in contact with Friendtech. They will surely be of great help to engineer a stand-alone little box which let you replace your VCR by your new XBOX ;-)
Here's his answer on XBMC forum :
| QUOTE |
| If you need a sponsor or cooperate backer for the numerisator I can put you in contact with FriendTech who I'm sure would be interested (FriendTech told me before they were looking into something similar with no-PC approach, they too have electronic-engineering resources/skills) I'am understanding your intentions about the numerisator correct I'm I not? you plan to engineer a standalone box similar to Dreambox/DBOX2? (EDIT: To clarify; by "similar to Dreambox/DBOX2" I mean capability to pick up TV and stream over network, I didn't mean decode-satellite-TV). If your only doing the PC=>Xbox side instead then think integration with MediaPortal either via a ccXStream-server or even better UPnP be best. PS! Would it not be better if we move this topic into the development or hardware-forum since you are coding/building it yourself? are you not? Edited by Gamester17 on July 17 2004,18:19 |
I'll draw a graph to show eveyone what it would like. Stay alert! <
Post by: splash911 on July 18, 2004, 01:00:00 PM
Post by: gronne on July 19, 2004, 07:58:00 PM
Post by: splash911 on July 19, 2004, 08:50:00 PM
Thanks for your intersest, stay tuned <
Post by: geniusalz on July 19, 2004, 11:22:00 PM
I don't exactly know how one works, but it can be bought for less than $100. If that is cheaper than what the 'numerisator' will cost, then obviously it is the better choice.
It might require more processing on the xbox's part, so might not work.
But anyway, here's one I found:
Post by: splash911 on July 20, 2004, 07:38:00 AM
At a first non-technical glance, I'd said we will need a modulator to take coaxial IN to RCA or S-Video. That is not really expensive. I'll check on that and on the software and drivers for that USB tv.
I have seen NTSC and PAL compatibility which are great.
0.5Mb/s to 7.5Mb/s is USB1.1 compatible.
And many other intersting feats.
I'll let you updated on that. If the drivers are portable and open for Xbox use, that could be the end of our problem.
Moreover, their is other USB thing like that, bigger, but with open source softwares (LINUX.). As point in a :DVR forums.
Thanks everyone, stay tuned
Post by: splash911 on July 20, 2004, 07:41:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| USB is the problem not enough speed and that is why this project is running on the ethernet. |
That's what I thought at first. And it would be accessible for all PC's Xbox's on the network, which aim at a larger market and is more interesting. (I think).
But that idea is USB 1.1 compatible and it may seems really ez to do (the hardware part), if the drivers and data are understandable easily via software dev.
Post by: jippie on July 21, 2004, 01:47:00 AM
Nobody has done this yet.
jippie
Post by: splash911 on July 21, 2004, 06:48:00 AM
As a results, I'll stick to the more open and interesting plan, the antenna2lan project. I'm working to know more of all the pieces, and I will be in discussion with Friendtech this week, thanks to Gamester17.
Stay tuned.
Post by: Fally on July 21, 2004, 07:30:00 AM
Post by: splash911 on July 21, 2004, 08:32:00 AM
If you want to pre-order I'll take it lol! No prototype are yet existing nor near to exist!
But stay tuned, it could move fast!
Post by: gilsas on July 22, 2004, 08:54:00 AM
Post by: splash911 on July 22, 2004, 09:42:00 AM
Goal is to a a TV2LAN adapter which XBMC can read the stream and process data to make TiVO functions available. Moreover, the use of a DreamX could give better TiVo functionnalities, discussion with Friendtech are in progress.
Moreover, I'll try to get in contact with modchip companies for sponsorship and eventually retail the product. It is yet to be determined. For now, I'm working on developping the hardware for that project. Check XBMC forums
http://www.xboxmedia...t=ST;f=4;t=5223
for more info on the USB discussion.
Thanks for you interest and thinking!
Post by: atomiX on July 22, 2004, 11:43:00 AM
Post by: splash911 on July 22, 2004, 01:01:00 PM
Specifications are to be final in a few days (maybe weeks), and pieces research is already started. Moreover, manufacturing and marketing deals could be sell to companies like Friendtech, or mod companies. Communications are to be made, but I still have to launch official project things.
Like a name for the project (Thinking of tv2lan, tv2xbox,etc.)
Official Site and forum to be up
Find some hardware gurus to help me validate specs. (Maybe a business can with their engineering ressources).
Finally, I want some pub for the project. I already ask Xantium about a news 7 days ago, and I'll ask again when official things are chosen and official sponsor too.
The project is moving fast, it's ambitious and I still need to know the popularity of such a thing. After that, more workarounds would be made to make the product perfect (maybe a use for the LCD screen to program remote recording, or display channel, etc.) If anyone could refer the project to business, Xbox influent scene members, etc, I'll be glad to concentrate my work on the design of the hardware and software for the project.
More news to come in the next day, continue posting opinions/ideas/clarifications.
Post by: Sord_Fish on July 22, 2004, 03:41:00 PM
Post by: inneedofhelp on July 23, 2004, 12:21:00 AM
If you want to work on a useful project, make use of the USB ports. Although you can only get 1.5 MB/s on USB 1.1, it is relatively sufficient for tv capture. A suggestion would be to include support for a commonly found non tv-tuning capture card as most tech savy people have a set-top box (digital cable or satellite). Also, support for an IR blaster would be need to control the channels. This project would be WORLDS eaiser to accomplish than building a lan-based "digitaliser" and would allow users to buy the neccessary equipment from a local electronics store. I agree it shouldn't run on linux; it would be awesome if somebody could get an xbe based program like this working. Once created it could easily be ported into XBMC and allow the user to schedule recordings and browse television programs through an EPG. Sorry to be so pessimistic, but the "digitaliser" idea just isn't practical.
P.S.
The XBOX wouldn't be able to encode a program in decent quality DIVX or XVID in real-time. It could encode into these formats from a captured MPEG2 stream later though, but writing the neccessary xbox code for such a conversion is very difficult in itself.
Post by: Sord_Fish on July 23, 2004, 08:05:00 AM
i think something along the lines of this would be a good idea
Post by: jippie on July 23, 2004, 11:26:00 AM
Don't mention the word XBOX.
MS will be on you like a ton of bricks.
Lan2TV.
jippie
Post by: fghjj on July 25, 2004, 08:52:00 AM
-As long as XBMC is built with XDK, you remain dependant on the Xbox Homebrew Scene for providing the binary's.
-Quick Google: here and here two of these chips can do the nescessary MPEG4 encoding, already have USB interface and costs $20/unit at 10.000 units. You'll need something that can tune/convert the TV signal and a whole lot more.
-Timeshifting would be 100% coolness but I think the Xbox ATA-33 interface is too slow?
Just some thoughts.
Post by: splash911 on July 26, 2004, 08:29:00 AM
http://www.xboxmedia...t=ST;f=4;t=5223
FORGET ABOUT THE USB. The goal is not to use the USB ports, but to take a analog TV signal and streamed it to a LAN. TV2LAN.
There already exist some CPU with integrated MPEG2-TS, MPEG4 encoding, AAC and MP3 encoding. The Xbox will not be able to encode real-time MPEG4, I know. That chip is design for that. The actual software on the XBMC would be able to view it. However, PVR's functionnalities are still to be implemented.
And that CPU have TCP/IP protocols integrated, and Ethernet.
Check Nexperia PNX1500
c ya.
Post by: Sord_Fish on July 26, 2004, 05:12:00 PM
i havent fully read about the chip, can it be controlled by tcp/ip?
also if this does go to into some sort of massproduction stage and it is sold it think it would be better to be sold under all playforms instead of just a xbox add on
Edit: also i think tivo features should be worked out after the bx has a prototype. just getting the tv signal to some sort of stream is the way to go tbh
Post by: Sord_Fish on July 27, 2004, 07:16:00 AM
I'm not sure what digital tv is streamed as but its digital terestrial
Post by: Sord_Fish on July 27, 2004, 04:14:00 PM
i did a quick search for a HDTV capture card and found thisMacro Image Technology's MDP-120 and this HDTV Tuner Cards
what do you think with one of them tuners?
Edit: would it be better to post in xbmc forum?
Post by: cykiller on July 27, 2004, 07:17:00 PM
(Please do not try to PM nor email me, Shallax, or Friendtech about the project we will contact you if needed and thank you.)
Post by: splash911 on July 28, 2004, 07:48:00 AM
Post by: preiter on July 30, 2004, 01:16:00 PM
Buy a $50 video capture card for you PC and set it up to record to a shared directory. Play recorded videos on XBMC across the network.
I think most people with modded xboxes have PCs. Why the rush to take the PC out of the equation?
Post by: splash911 on July 31, 2004, 12:20:00 PM
The goal is clear. Without a PC. That means you can take your Xbox to your grandfather's house, pause live TV, record it, rewind, etc. without any PC setup. Moreover, you don't need to lose your PC power to do that.
And finally it can be a marketing thing. To sell a fully legal Xbox with PVR capabilities without a PC. You just plug everything and it work. No harassment at all. For PC user it means the same thing. Why is their some specialized Video card? To free CPU from specific calculations. I'd like to see you encoding real-time Xvid and Mp3 for when you want to watch the News, you can go back 5 sec to the healine you missed.
Post by: gronne on July 31, 2004, 05:34:00 PM
Splash: You said I could take it to grandpa(or whatever), but didn't it require any other hardware also? Will it be possible to bring the xbox to anybody with a digital sattelite reciever and plug the things up?
This seems like a very interesting project, which I hope develops well. Maybe you've already planned it but I think you should update the first post on this thread with all new information. Makes it easier to follow the progress. And I think this topic should be pinned.
Post by: rover on August 02, 2004, 07:59:00 PM
ie. antennae-usb-ethernet-xbox-xbmc-tv
In Australia we dont have as many channels as you guys do, so there is also the obvious option of somebody actually setting up an internet tv service that is just a broadcasted stream of popular tv channels over the internet. You could leave in the ad's, make it a pay service, or include EXTRA ad's if you wanted to be a shit. It would mean i could watch tv on my laptop too :)
Post by: rover on August 02, 2004, 08:49:00 PM
This post has been edited by rover: Aug 3 2004, 03:49 AM
Post by: clown88 on August 03, 2004, 10:31:00 PM
| QUOTE (rover @ Aug 3 2004, 03:26 AM) |
| You can get usb 'extenders' that just do usb-ethernet-usb. What about taking an eyeTV USB (which has a build in mpeg encoder and usb 2.0) or something similar, attatch it to the usb extender, then teach xbmc to read the 'usb' signal off the ethernet connection? |
If you could make the drivers, this would work
Pricey though; And that doesn't include the tuner card
Have a google for: USB over IP
Post by: Sord_Fish on August 04, 2004, 08:56:00 AM
Post by: clown88 on August 04, 2004, 08:17:00 PM
Post by: Yoshihiro on August 09, 2004, 03:03:00 AM
look here Project OFF
Another project
Post by: uvoodoo on August 11, 2004, 12:24:00 PM
Post by: s1w on November 24, 2004, 03:09:00 PM
I was reading your post on another site. I have been wondering the exactly same thing only I have a different approach to it.
What about writing a client similiar to Set Top Box software that could connect to servers and display guide information and stream video to the xbox from the internet, like IPTV?
It would be something similiar to XBMC's My Weather.. :). Would this be possible? That way we could eliminate the PC component, having to write drivers for external USB hubs or capture devices. One of the hardest parts of the client would be the video encoding directly to HD for recording functionality.
Basically what I was looking to do is build a software client that would act as a Set Top Box through XBMC. That way they could add a menu item such as XTV, ITV or whatever that would take you directly to a TV guide and you can choose channels, eg: ImagicTV, iTTV or VideoLan, etc...
This post has been edited by s1w: Nov 24 2004, 11:10 PM
Post by: almirf on December 09, 2004, 03:19:00 PM
| QUOTE (Yoshihiro @ Aug 9 2004, 11:06 AM) |
| look here Project OFF Another project |
Friend Yosh
im have a xbox 1.6 ntsc with smartxx
how i can take snapshots of programs and games of my xbox ?
Thanks
Almir
Post by: goathunter on December 11, 2004, 08:33:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE (Yoshihiro @ Aug 9 2004, 11:06 AM) jester.gif look here Project OFF Another project rolleyes.gif Friend Yosh im have a xbox 1.6 ntsc with smartxx how i can take snapshots of programs and games of my xbox ? Thanks Almir |
And wtf does that have to with the topic?
Post by: flashfreak on December 12, 2004, 04:37:00 PM
i can't wait to see it done! :)
Post by: Flu on December 23, 2004, 04:35:00 PM
TV signal -> VCR (tuner) -> USB video digitizer (someone posted a photo in this thread) -> USB to Ethernet adaptor (off the shelf) -> XBMC video streaming
And of course you need a box to put them together ;) Perhaps not bad for proof of concept.
Flu
Post by: scottw67 on December 31, 2004, 09:24:00 AM
im not interested in a PVR system as i already have one but
i'd liked to be able to stream live tv over my network to my xbox
I have a number of hardware based tunner solutiuon each with ethernet connections
i) My first is DVB card in one of my pc. I use progdvb to view and stream live tv pictures over my network.
The other solution maybe the superb open source linux based VDR software.
this also has streaming capabilities.
ii) Is a tivo, again there are i think there are ways of streaming live tv from the tivo to a pc
So im thinking would it be possble to write xbox based client software to handle the streamed data
just a few ideas / thoughts hope they help
cheers
Post by: s1w on January 08, 2005, 04:20:00 PM
Well we know some things already work. We have the TV Guide python script which can read a xml file from an internet address. I will have a internet based TV service installed next week. I have the windows xmltv app on a web server updating the listing.xml every day in 2 day blocks for this particular service . So I added a tvguide option to the button on menu that runs the tvguide script and it loads the listing from IP on the net.
So, technically what I'm looking to do is link the xmltv guide to the channels of the iptv service and have it stream directly into xbmc. Then recording functionality could be added later. That way you could record the direct stream instead having to capture it from a external tuner.
If I could have xbmc directly connect to the providers server it would even better.
Basically I want my xbox to behave as a set top box through xbmc. it's nice to have one device do everything rather than a clutter of devices for multimedia content.
Completing this project would open the door to port this same functionality to work with other IPTV services directly on the xbox.
Anybody interested ?
This post has been edited by s1w: Jan 9 2005, 12:23 AM
Post by: s1w on January 08, 2005, 11:51:00 PM
I have verifed due to the original research done by other user that changing the mac of a nic to match the STB will allow the chanel to be directly streamed by the video lan client app if you know the ip and port number.
Can anyone verify if mplayer has the same capability to stream udp/rtp multicast streams directly?
Post by: desi01 on March 04, 2005, 04:05:00 PM
Just wondering what is the current status on this?
Post by: timandbj on September 07, 2005, 08:21:00 AM
I have read the postings here with great interest, and there seems to be a stall in replies. Perhaps I can throw in a few cents worth. to get it going again.
1. Are we wanting to design a piece of hardware or software that bypasses the need for extra TV tuners, encoders and decoders etc? I.e a box that simply goes between the aerial/wall socket and Xbox.
2. Or are we wanting a device to taking advantage of TV tuners (i.e. USB) that people might already own. (such as myself)
3. I own an Xbox, and a USB digital TV Tuner (V-Gear Pocket DTV, tuner itself inside is made by Panasonic) - I have been unable to sleep over the past few weeks because I have been thinking about ways to connect the TV Tuner to the Xbox.
4. As far as I know, there are only 3 standard interfaces inside the Xbox. The 4 USB1.1 ports at the front, the 10/100Mbps ethernet port at the back, and the 2 IDE connectors inside connecting the DVD ROM and HDD.
5. So far, I cannot think of any conceLantronix's UBoxivable way to use the IDE connectors to talk to a USB TV Tuner.
6. I think its settled that the USB1.1 ports are simply not fast enough to handle the amount of data from a TV Tuner. (anyone is welcome to refute that - anyway to turn a USB1.1 into a USB2? - Another hard mod?)
6a. I think its fair to say that it is impossible to convert an ethernet port into a USB2 port. Therefore we are left with 'converting' a USB device into a TCP/IP 'device'.
7. So then we are left with a 10/100 Mbps ethernet port - and 100Mbps sounds like a good start. Therefore, its seems this is why we have the TV2Lan idea, some way to get TV signals and turn them into something that can be sent via TCP/IP. It just so happens that I own a USB Tuner, therefore I am wanting to convert a USB device to start talking TCP/IP.
8. The TV2Lan idea seems to want to get the TV signal (be it analogue or digital) and convert it directly into TCP/IP. Thereby by-passing the need for the USB TV Tuner altogether (*sobs*).
9. This device may assist in converting the USB TV Tuner into TCP/IP - the UboxLantronix UBox.
10. However, there may be some problems with this idea:
10a - Can it handle the data required of a TV Tuner?
10b - My understanding is that such USB servers are really designed for printers and multifunction devices, and are therefore unable to handle 'isosynchronous' devices.
10c - I have no idea what isosynchronous means, or if a TV Tuner is such. I only read it from a review of a Silex USB Serversimilar product.
10d - The cost of a USB TV Tuner (btw, i got mine for free, but they usually cost a pretty penny) plus the cost of a USB Server (about US$150) makes this a costly and iimpractical solution to what would otherwise be a nice-Xbox-tinkering-project.
10e - I'm in Australia, and US$150 is A LOT more expensive because of the exchange rate.
11. I'm stuck for ideas folks, and until someone comes up with a reasonably priced and practical solution - or can categorically say that it CANNOT BE DONE AND THEREFORE SHOULD GIVE UP, I'm afraid I will be cursed with many more sleepless nights.
12. Anyway to add some sort of PCI connectivity to an Xbox - so people might be able to use PCI TV Tuners they might already own?
Post by: tastyratz on December 28, 2005, 02:19:00 PM
Post by: JayDee on December 29, 2005, 02:17:00 PM
QUOTE(tastyratz @ Dec 28 2005, 10:26 PM) 
bump from the dead because a sweet project like this doesnt deserve to die...
i´s not only dead, it is decomposed and recycled...
Post by: modthebox.tk on December 29, 2005, 07:27:00 PM
Post by: pinny121 on December 30, 2005, 06:17:00 AM
at the moment i have to launch
xbox media pc extender from xbmc to schedule recordings on my mce2005 pc
and stream live tv to xbox. I then watch recorded tv from xbmc through a shared SMB folder.
I am looking at the mytv script to maybe shedule recordings in pc mce 2005
but dont think it is as robust as xbox extender eg checking for recording confilcts.
i have in the past steamed live tv to xbmc from TSREADER but you couldnot change to a chanel
on a different mux (no good).
i have also used media portal and a script which shedules recordings from xbmc which has great potential but not yet stable enough.
any good ideas would be greatly recieved
Post by: Helios on January 10, 2006, 03:18:00 AM
This would of never seen the light of day from what I gathered back then and it looks like I was right. Doesn't matter though. I got a PC for that job. Xbox doesn't have to do everything a PC can.
Post by: pierrottls on April 11, 2007, 12:13:00 PM
QUOTE(flashfreak @ Dec 12 2004, 04:08 PM)
I love the idea to do a PVR from My Xbox simply by pluging a USB tuner TV....
For now Im using another solution closer to the starting idea of this project:
My Pc have a PCI bt848 tv. I install windvr and cr***k it (Just for testing)
so my cable box its pluged on the PC, and I have a network cable running from my pc
to my Xbox.
So the pc never stop writting the file on an HDD... and the Xbox with XBMC never stop reading.
that way, If I press pause on XBMC , my tv program stop... then I can go forward/backward.
This way also allow me to record program with Windvr at scheduled time and watch them
straight via the network on my xbox (who its plug on my tv and digital sound system, so you wont see a difference. Only if you have HDtv).
Im pretty happy about the system and my wife too the only problem is My wife not really happy regarding the 3 cables going trough the hallway :-) I hide them below a carpet but she said its not nice
I guess there is a price to pay....was just a thought how to record TV programs and pausing program easily with the price of a TV card ($40) and a old PIII 500mhz 256 Mo ram (Priceless
).Good luck for your project... Im an computer and electronics guy so I will monitor the forum and if I can be any help......
Post by: gordo1111 on April 11, 2007, 03:50:00 PM
Post by: tawhid111 on July 20, 2008, 04:07:00 PM