Post by: h8raid on September 24, 2004, 02:22:00 AM
"There's no source code for Windows. It has to not address some areas of the ram because this locks up the Xbox, and it has to not scan the pci bus otherwise, lockup. These are the major problems with Windows. Another thing are the drivers, there are none. The people who have Windows running use it through Bochs or Linux with VMWare. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it will be hard and without source code you will need a way to readdress the ramparts and stop the pci buxs scan. It's exactly the part where I am with my FreeDOS port. I'm just lacking the programming skills, but I'm learning right now
at least FreeDOS is open source so I can rewrite it. A bios would be pretty complicated, but maybe load a program into memory that does this [forces the checks to pass] before the actual Windows bootloader kicks in. What I mean is some kind of a layer between hardware and Windows. I'm not experienced enough to write such code, but I think it should be possible."To sum things up, I am proposing that if the proper code were loaded into memory to force the ram checks and pci bus scan to pass, as well as support the NTFS file structure, we should be at least one GIANT step forward in running Windows on our Xbox EFFICIENTLY. GreenGiant is working on a project for me that will allow remote HDD switching, you will be able to reconfigure settings such as button 1 will boot hard drive 1, bios bank 2, dvd drive 2, etc. through a program run on the Xbox. This will work by storing the settings to memory on either a SmartXX or Xenium chip. I do not know why it will work on those chips, but those were the examples he gave me when explaining how it works, but I do know it will require a modchip. This is relevant because it proves that it is possible to establish the "layer between hardware and Windows" explained by Scan-C. Further, this also proves that it will boot the information stored to memory before the Windows bootloader. That said, I am trying to gather other useful information that may either support, or prove this idea impossible, or to not be a feasible solution. ANY insight on this idea will help. We need to know things such as:
Do you think this will work? Why?/Why not?
Do you think this is a good idea? Why?/Why not?
Are there any conflicts you know of which will cause problems getting this to work?
Do you have the skills to get a start/help on this project?
Do you know anyone that has the necessary skills to get a start/help with this project?
Do you have any information that will help with the project?
Regards,
-H8raid
Post by: Scan-C on September 24, 2004, 11:09:00 AM
as is said we would need some kind of layer. i don't know enough about what windows is doing at boot time. if it erases everything stored in the ram our layer would also be deleted.
someone who knows what windows exactly does while it's loading?
for the ntfs filesystem... this won't be a problem. once the windows setup is running it can reformat the hdd to fat32 which cromwell supports. isn't ideal if you still want to be able to play xbox games
but that's a problem you can think about when windows is at least booting up.as for storing things on a mod... the smartxx and xenium have some kind of os and this let's you choose which drive to power over their spi bus with some additional hardware. at least that is what i think greengiatn trys to accomplish. this won't work for the needed layer tho...
Post by: h8raid on September 24, 2004, 03:51:00 PM
EDIT: Almost forgot this, if anybody knows of GOOD forums regarding Windows that would help us compile the information we need to know about the boot processes, please don't hesitate to post. If you are interested in helping gather information for the project so we can get things off the ground, PM me. Scan-C can I count you in? It seems like you are interested to see if this is the path to light or just another dead end. I am positive there is light at the end of this tunnel, we just have to generate the interest and have our facts together before attempting to make it happen!
This post has been edited by h8raid: Sep 24 2004, 10:59 PM
Post by: Scan-C on September 24, 2004, 04:45:00 PM
yes count me in. i'm a linux fanatic but this is a challenge and it would be nice to get it going.
the thing about the boot process makes me think of a version we want to try. i think windows 2000 prof would be best here. isn't outdated but doesn't need as much resources as xp.
Post by: h8raid on September 24, 2004, 07:46:00 PM
Post by: fire2501 on September 27, 2004, 10:01:00 AM
if i can help in any way pm me.. ive been taking "coding class" at the UofC for a year and a half now and im not bad in the coding part but ive never coded xboxs before...
seriously.. great project and i really hope we can get windows running on the box in some way!
Post by: Scan-C on September 29, 2004, 02:29:00 AM
for embedded i already told h8raid that it would be illegal to release it without license. that was my main reason to pick 2000. it's up to date, can do anything that xp can and everyone can buy it. if we can develop some kind of bootloader which runs in cromwell everyone could download our code completely legal and install their copy of 2000.
on the other side xpe would be running at great speed and maybe we could leave out the pci bus scan (don't know for sure).
some kind of hard decision
Post by: fire2501 on September 29, 2004, 04:34:00 PM
never know.. but everything else is illegal for the xbox anywayz, but well have to see.
Post by: Scan-C on September 30, 2004, 08:40:00 AM
h8raid and i talked about xpe and 2000 pro. don't know if he already told you what we want to use but i think he wrote something like that.
Post by: betaluva on September 30, 2004, 06:53:00 PM
Post by: Snout on October 01, 2004, 06:25:00 AM
Post by: betaluva on October 01, 2004, 05:00:00 PM
Post by: klik on October 02, 2004, 10:39:00 AM
http://msdn.MS.com/library/default....tml/ram_sdi.asp
Why don't make a XP Embedded image, put it in a xbe and ram boot it.
Post by: fire2501 on October 02, 2004, 11:05:00 AM
BY THE WAY! im taking a programming course at the university and theres a kid in my class thats 13 years old and hes a t.a for us and knows more then half the teachers in the university about programming.. Im trying to get him involved and he seems interested but hes never used an xbox before and knows nothing about them, but i think he could pick up quick, and get this thing rolling!
Post by: h8raid on October 02, 2004, 10:58:00 PM
Post by: the_devil73 on October 03, 2004, 10:54:00 AM
Post by: betaluva on October 04, 2004, 06:26:00 PM
Windows XP Embedded with SP2 Technology Preview is available for download via the Windows Embedded Web site. Delivering on MS's commitment to make new Windows XP Embedded technologies available within 90 days of the client release, Windows XP Embedded SP2 will ship in the second half of 2004.
http://www.MS.com/do...&displaylang=en
Post by: h8raid on October 05, 2004, 12:56:00 AM
Post by: klik on October 05, 2004, 05:08:00 PM
It is supposed to run on any hardware and have most funtionalities of XP. It can be used to run Target Analyzer(MS XP embedded site has an article about it). But it is pretty large(150M) so it is impossible to boot from RAM. Maybe someone can turn CD boot sector code into a XBE, then put every thing on to a CD and let XBox boot it. I suppose Windows PE can read file from the CD if the CD is in ISO format. Now the only obstacle is that XBOX crashes when Windows scans PCI bus. Maybe someone could change a few bytes in Windows binary
Post by: betaluva on October 05, 2004, 06:32:00 PM
Post by: fire2501 on October 05, 2004, 09:09:00 PM
Post by: h8raid on October 05, 2004, 09:43:00 PM
Edit: Oops, forgot about something else that was recently brought up in the thread. Scan-C and I had previously discussed the possibility of a modified Cromwell bios to boot. It is true that the bios would be the most effective way to get things working, however, there are other things which I am sure Fire knows to be a bigger problem with this idea. The amount and complexity of the coding would be insane, and would most likely make the solution extremely difficult at best to implement. If there is anybody that would like to get onboard with the team and start working on this idea, please send a PM. The thing that needs to be realized is that there are underlying obstacles we are currently unaware of with getting Windows to run. What this means is that our first project may work, but it may get to a certain point, and an alternate route must be taken. For this reason, I would like to see a few different approaches to this project, this will establish a few key things. It will allow members of the team to learn what is going on with the installation from different perspectives which will help when another part of the team reaches a stopping point. Hopefully, the knowledge gained from one side of the project will help solve problems later on, and we will end up with a few solutions to the problem whether than just having one way to do things. This in turn, will make for a more successful project in my opinion as it would be more versatile in the end.
Regards,
-H8raid
Post by: betaluva on October 05, 2004, 11:11:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on October 05, 2004, 11:15:00 PM
Post by: Scan-C on October 06, 2004, 03:31:00 AM
h8raid and i were discussing about remote booting xpe as cromwell supports the pxe remote boot client. i'm looking over this right now and i want to at least get cromwell to catch the image file.
the idea with a bootloader xbe which acts as cdrom boot sector sounds pretty good to me. we should at least be able to get pe showing a system message before it crashes. anyone who could code such xbe?
Post by: Scan-C on October 06, 2004, 02:58:00 AM
| QUOTE |
We have been working hard since last july if i remeber correctly.We made a loader, we can get it to boot but with no video! This windows (Unforunately) is based on NT 4.0 dont tell X-S this, but we have Ideas for an Xbox-Windows!!!!!! like windows XP, windows 200, there will be and xbox-windows with ful software compatibility. Were using a bios based on Award. AMI is xtremley hard to decode and the files uncompressed are like 4 mb. We made a Linux Loader (fucks up your xbox) but its buggy. We have only gotten this far do to a team of 20 hard working seniors and juniors, 3 willing teachers, and 10 million dollars budget dont tell x-s there gonna ask questions and were going to try to make a release by x-mas and get em all by suprise! PS, if we do get it to work, its only for Modchip Xboxes only, this of course will be released under the GPL |
10 million dollar and a hacked award bios... yeah
Post by: h8raid on October 06, 2004, 04:17:00 AM
Well, if anybody knows any programmers/wants to help recruit, we need the extra help.Regards,
-H8raid
Post by: fire2501 on October 06, 2004, 07:48:00 AM
oh and by the way, yes embedded will take alot to code... right now im looking at images of embedded that other people have coded that might relate to the xbox a little more, then we may be able to work from that
Post by: klik on October 06, 2004, 07:13:00 AM
Post by: Scan-C on October 06, 2004, 07:59:00 AM
| QUOTE (klik @ Oct 6 2004, 03:16 PM) |
| There is award bios source floating around p2p. Maybe that one could be referenced instead of cromwell bios. |
didn't know that but i'll look at it. recoding the bios is pretty hard because of all the initialisationprocesses but maybe some of the code can be used in cromwell.
Post by: h8raid on October 06, 2004, 02:04:00 PM
Now if only it were that easy. Anybody feel like trying to get a clipping up on X-S with the latest news, they would probably let us post a news clipping on the homepage. That would be cool because with a link to this thread, tons of traffic because X-S news goes out on tons of RSS feeds, and other sites have it linked to the high heavens. Lots of advertisement to coders needed! Well, whoever wants to take on this task just let me know.Regards,
-H8raid
Post by: Scan-C on October 06, 2004, 04:26:00 PM
btw cromwell is open source so it doesn't need to be extracted.
Post by: betaluva on October 06, 2004, 06:35:00 PM
Release info:
-------------
We are a group of xbox enthusiasts that just wasnt satisfied in how far BIOS
development has come, and decided to take matters into our own hands.
Basically, we went through the current bioses feature lists, and the requested
bios hacks thread on forums.xbox-scene.com, and implemented all that we could.
We are open to most feature suggestions, especially if you feel that you can
help implement them. We are aware of 2 of the most requested features that we
have not done; xbox live hack, and embedded ftp. The former we will not be
touching, sorry. As for the later, never say never!
We know how many people love to customize their bios to fit their exact needs,
and we made an effort to make every option that we could configurable. All of
the configurable options are controlled by a .cfg file (ini style) on the
xbox hard drive. We have included a win32 application that will edit this
file for you, which should eleminate user error for the most part.
Loading the config file from the disk requires a short delay while the IDE is
initialized. If you don't like the delay you can inject your config file into
the BIOS with our ConfigInjector tool. Note that an injected config does have
its disadvantages. Please see the ConfigInjector readme.txt for more info.
Please remember that this is our first public release, and bugs are expected.
Please report all bugs in the bios forum, on forums.xbox-scene.com, or #ind-bios
on EFnet.
Post by: betaluva on October 06, 2004, 06:01:00 PM
Instructions
O.k launch kernelbasher and open the bios you wish to edit. 4981,4983 & M7 are supported in this release, might work with other bioses, might not. Select Patch to save, outputted bios is called bashed.bin.
Improvements/Additions
- RGB Sliders
- Improved xfile & bios validation
- Random Camera Animation
- Lots of X files to play with
Post by: betaluva on October 06, 2004, 06:30:00 PM
Post by: h8raid on October 06, 2004, 06:46:00 PM
Hope this is what you need!
Regards,
-H8raid
EDIT: Here is an excerpt from that site that is actually quite interesting for our purposes and seems that it would prove very useful if we can obtain the source.
The BIOS is based on the v6.00 from Award and includes a great deal of possibilities for adjusting memory timings, AGP and PCI buses operation and a possibility to distribute manually interrupts among PCI slots. The FSB frequency can be changed from 100 to 200 MHz in 1 MHz steps. The core voltage can be changed +/- 0.1V in 0.025V steps and the memory voltage can be lifted by 0.7V from the rated value in 0.1V increments.
Post by: Scan-C on October 07, 2004, 02:57:00 AM
thanks i'll look if my idea is possible with this one. i'm thinking how hard it is to modify a bios to start the xbox. the nforce boards seem to be nearly the same so i wanted to at least look at it.
Post by: h8raid on October 07, 2004, 05:51:00 AM
Regards,
-H8raid
Post by: Code-X on October 08, 2004, 05:22:00 AM
I think we should make a list of ToDo's.
Post by: fire2501 on October 08, 2004, 11:11:00 AM
oh by the way if anyone wants to hear something postive
off the MS website, an embedded discussion
| QUOTE |
| John_MS A: XP Embedded will certainly run on a Celeron 333 with 64 MB of RAM... performance can be optimized depending on the components and settings that you choose. Your mileage may very... |
thought i might just add that...lol
oh and i was researching ce on the xbox and they got a bootloader from the linux project that may be able to load embedded somehow take a look...
http://www.windowsfordevices.com/articles/AT8602839775.html
oh and one more thing... this is a GREAT artical to read.. scrol to the bottom they talk about how xpe will work just needs alot of work
http://www.flexbeta.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2348
Post by: h8raid on October 09, 2004, 05:44:00 PM
@Fire, glad to hear that we are not attempting anything in vein. I know for sure I would be able to run it when my box gets back from Friendtech. The next time I see her, she is going to have 128Mb ram and a nice 1.4Ghz processor. Sucks for game compatibility, but for our reasons, it is perrrrrrfect. After they get more of these boxes out to the public, I look for somebody to do some developing and fix at least some of the game compatibility issues. Any ideas on this would be awesome, but that would be another project altogether, and in the meantime, I will certainly just get a new box and use that one for my games and my faster box for my media server/Windows/whatever else would need the extra power. Anywho, once again, glad to see the progress and updates here.
Regards,
-H8raid
Post by: betaluva on October 10, 2004, 05:31:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on October 13, 2004, 03:22:00 AM
Post by: fire2501 on October 13, 2004, 07:52:00 AM
Post by: h8raid on October 13, 2004, 01:11:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on October 13, 2004, 07:23:00 PM
Post by: djdafreund on October 13, 2004, 11:57:00 PM
Post by: h8raid on October 14, 2004, 02:32:00 AM
With the latest news on the media center extender for the Xbox it is going to be interesting to see exactly what comes out of that whole deal. Maybe M$ will actually provide some answers in their own release of that software.....unless we beat them to it. Unfortunately I would imagine it will be nothing more than a frontend to MCE because of the fact that M$ will obviously not support upgraded hard drives. The only reason I am even suggesting that they may actually give us some answers with this software is that it will undoubtedly have to utilize some form of bootloader embedded into the .xbe file. Unless of course their goal is to take the focus from XBMC and attempt to profit off of their work. After all, XBMC can already be set up to work as a frontend to MCE, just not the way I would imagine M$ doing it. Who knows, I guess we will have to see what happens and cross that bridge when the time comes.
Post by: betaluva on October 14, 2004, 06:40:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on October 14, 2004, 07:40:00 PM
Post by: ravenous on October 15, 2004, 02:36:00 PM
Post by: ravenous on October 15, 2004, 02:38:00 PM
Post by: h8raid on October 15, 2004, 02:29:00 PM
Post by: ravenous on October 15, 2004, 03:23:00 PM
Post by: h8raid on October 15, 2004, 06:05:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on October 15, 2004, 09:07:00 PM
Post by: fire2501 on October 16, 2004, 10:06:00 AM
Post by: Scan-C on October 18, 2004, 09:45:00 AM
most of the time i got responses like "the xbox is for kids" or "use your computer". a bunch of idiots.as for fires request i'm researching the boot process also but i use embedded on an old nforce board i had laying around. other than that i'm looking over the bios codes from cromwell and award. maybe there's a way to inject the code for booting from a dvd-rom into cromwell.
Post by: h8raid on October 18, 2004, 12:44:00 PM
Regards,
-H8raid
Post by: Code-X on October 18, 2004, 01:00:00 PM
http://www.reactos.com/
EDIT:
Found some extra stuff about bottin etc.
http://en.wikipedia....i/Boot_sequence
I'm wondering if we can get Cromwell to load NTLdr then go from there.
Post by: betaluva on October 19, 2004, 10:03:00 PM
Post by: fire2501 on October 23, 2004, 01:06:00 AM
is there any way we can build an xbox app that will let us log onto another computer.. like remote desktop?? or even through linux wouldn't be that bad and better performance then getting it to run on the xbox... if we could make an app somehow that could use remote desktop to take control of an xp pro machine in ur house then it would be the same thing as running windows practically just faster.... i dunno i might be thinking stupid.. its late and my brains barely functioning.. so i cant even think of what to do to make this possible or not... but running a little program like remote desktop client off ur xbox.. instead of windows xp professional.. would obsiously take alot less system resourses!
Post by: nagmine on October 23, 2004, 12:39:00 AM
| QUOTE (fire2501 @ Oct 23 2004, 08:33 AM) |
| alright people.. i just came up with an idea that could be either brilliant.. or fricken stupid and someone smack me with a wet beaver tail alright... is there any way we can build an xbox app that will let us log onto another computer.. like remote desktop?? or even through linux wouldn't be that bad and better performance then getting it to run on the xbox... if we could make an app somehow that could use remote desktop to take control of an xp pro machine in ur house then it would be the same thing as running windows practically just faster.... i dunno i might be thinking stupid.. its late and my brains barely functioning.. so i cant even think of what to do to make this possible or not... but running a little program like remote desktop client off ur xbox.. instead of windows xp professional.. would obsiously take alot less system resourses! |
lol and what would be the use in that? if you want windows on ur tv just get a video card that supports s video or something lol.
Post by: h8raid on October 23, 2004, 12:48:00 AM
Post by: fire2501 on October 23, 2004, 09:15:00 AM
Post by: Scan-C on October 23, 2004, 01:58:00 PM
h8raid please send me the disassembled bootstrap. work is still keeping me busy but i'll take my breaks to look over the code.
someone mentioned loading ntldr through cromwell. i tried that and cromwell froze up.
but there is some light here. i got one of my teammates involved in this and we wrote a bootloader which in fact loaded the xpe kernel. it freezes and doesn't execute the kernel but it's a start. i hope i can get the source on monday. will post it asap.
Post by: betaluva on October 25, 2004, 06:11:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on October 25, 2004, 07:10:00 PM
Post by: Scan-C on October 25, 2004, 10:49:00 PM
Post by: Supplicium on October 27, 2004, 07:45:00 AM
Post by: h8raid on October 27, 2004, 11:05:00 AM
Regards,
-H8raid
Post by: Scan-C on October 27, 2004, 12:46:00 PM
couldn't get the source for now. this guy is everywhere but not on his desk
h8raid you have pm
Post by: TSOPrano on October 27, 2004, 12:29:00 PM
If you need beta/bug tester I have a few Xbox's to spare that can be used for more dangerous things.
Post by: Code-X on October 27, 2004, 03:30:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on October 27, 2004, 04:24:00 PM
Post by: h8raid on October 28, 2004, 09:15:00 AM
@Everybody else, I sent a pm to supplicium about taking him up on his offer to host a site for us.
Post by: h8raid on October 28, 2004, 09:17:00 AM
Scan-C, have you had a chance to look over the disassembled bootloader? And do you have any updates on the source code you were tracking down? I would have sent this in PM, but until we get a site up with our own PHP like you suggested this thread is sort of our only means of communication for news and updates. Anyway, let us know whats going on and how things are going. If there is anything you need help tracking down let me know and I will see what I can do.
Regards,
-H8raid
Post by: jimmsta on October 29, 2004, 04:32:00 PM
Post by: syn3rgetic on October 31, 2004, 08:51:00 AM
Post by: betaluva on October 31, 2004, 03:12:00 PM
terms (GNU General Public License). You may want to make XBox
compatibility a ReactOS subproject to get the advtange of experienced
ReactOS developers.
Cheers
Jason"
Post by: Supplicium on November 02, 2004, 09:32:00 AM
Post by: h8raid on November 02, 2004, 09:53:00 AM
Regards,
-H8raid
Post by: Scan-C on November 02, 2004, 12:46:00 PM
but to thread... doesn't sourceforge require you to post source code of what you've done? i don't want so say sourceforge is a bad idea but most of the code will be hacked ms code for now...
i looked over the bootstrap but it's really just that... a bootstrap which loads ntldr. the way it works is fine with the xbox. a little modification needed if we use a bios that doesn't execute the hdd's bootsector but that's it.
about the source me and my teammate wrote... well forget it. turned out that he just included my code into a remote boot image and that it was catched but not executed. as he first told me it soundede like he loaded the xpe kernel from cd
Post by: Supplicium on November 02, 2004, 03:39:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on November 02, 2004, 09:01:00 PM
Post by: Supplicium on November 03, 2004, 07:33:00 AM
Well back on this windows on xbox talk..
Have we decided on what version of Windows we are going to try to work with?
is it between XP embed and 2000? or CE??
any1 know a good RSS feed we could use for the site? i think that would be a nice addition to the site. maybe not so much an "xbox" rss feed but maybe more of a Windows info feed.
Post by: TSOPrano on November 03, 2004, 06:09:00 PM
Post by: h8raid on November 03, 2004, 11:45:00 PM
Post by: Pjoto on November 04, 2004, 07:40:00 AM
it would be kewl if I could use it like a normal computer, but playing xbox games..
like, have a desktop with burnout3 and halo2 icon, and doubleclick with my mouse..
so the windows would be just like a new dashboard interface thingy..
oh well, would be cool to play PC games on the xbox too
quake3 and stuff..
eh..
yeah.. do whatevers possible..
you're the coders..
Post by: jimmsta on November 06, 2004, 04:05:00 PM
The only thing is, is that it would probably make some sense to use gentoox's bootloader, seeing as it is opensource, and legal...
Essentially, it would be more feasible to begin with a gentoox install, and mod it for our uses. --
The following are things that would be good to experiment with...
Wine, Cedega support (requires subscription), least-memory-intensive gui, some form of OpenGL support -- which I'm unsure of if it exists...
Anyway, I'll be working on this project whenever I have free time.
Post by: guitardork864 on November 07, 2004, 12:39:00 AM
Post by: Pyro0623 on November 07, 2004, 01:16:00 AM
Just a thought
Let me Know
P.S. Im not a proficient coder or anything, but i have a General idea of What linux and windows do "behind the scenes" if you will, and that the XB dashboard is just a Gutted Ver. of Win 2K, but if im coming across as a complete idiot, fell free to Educate me a little.
Post by: betaluva on November 08, 2004, 12:37:00 AM
Post by: Shadow7789 on November 08, 2004, 03:23:00 PM
Post by: Scan-C on November 09, 2004, 06:11:00 AM
btw i need some help on the xpe kernel. some time ago i found a commented disassembly of it but i can't find it now. if anyone has it drop me a line.
Post by: Flame2k on November 09, 2004, 12:55:00 PM
get a site up asap, u need one lol.
nice work, i'll be following this thread. If u need any testing i'll be glad to help.
Dont have time to actually work on the project, and im not that great at coding anyway. but good luck guys, keep up with the good work.
please include opengl and direct 3d support...
Post by: betaluva on November 09, 2004, 09:38:00 PM
download from http://www.tssc.de/d...ds/pciscope.exe
for more info pm me
Post by: corp769 on November 09, 2004, 11:04:00 PM
keep me posted on progress too, i really like this.
p.s.-if u need a programmer for the site or anything, just tell me, ill gladly help out cause i have nothing to do anymore wheni get online.
Post by: h8raid on November 10, 2004, 03:33:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on November 10, 2004, 04:59:00 PM
Post by: klik on November 11, 2004, 03:03:00 PM
Post by: jimmsta on November 11, 2004, 06:39:00 PM
You've got a few problems with that idea...
Firstly, the xbox bios, no matter what version you use, only supports ONE Process. Windows's kernel uses more than one process. The xbox DOES support multiple threads, so essentially, if you wanted to, you could emulate processes under new threads, but it wouldn't be efficient.
Essentially, this project has got to start at the BIOS level. You'll need to create a bios that emulates a PC's bios, and sends calls to irq's and dma channels through a software layer... Sorta like how VMWare works... This bios could be used as a soft-mod, allowing for windows to be loaded up on the xbox, without any massive hacking of the Windows NT kernel.
This also poses a new challenge -- create a free, legal, multi-process xbox BIOS.
I believe it IS possible, but will take a long time, and might not be worth it in the long run.
Either way, I will be here to help.. I'm good at solving hardware/software problems....
Post by: djdafreund on November 11, 2004, 10:53:00 PM
| QUOTE (jimmsta @ Nov 11 2004, 08:42 PM) |
| This also poses a new challenge -- create a free, legal, multi-process xbox BIOS. I believe it IS possible, but will take a long time, and might not be worth it in the long run. Either way, I will be here to help.. I'm good at solving hardware/software problems.... |
I completely dissagree with you on the free,legal bios. Although it WOULD be very nice to be legal, if it means possible to make it works by not being legal, the majority of the xbox users (i dare say you dissagree with that statement) are not exactly running a legal bios on there machines now as it is. I don't know, maybe i just read too much into your post.
Just basically saying, don't stop the excellent continuing movement of getting Windows to run on the xbox because of worrying about having a illegal bios used, when the majority are doing that now with no concerns. THEN try to migrate over later to a legal version (Using a better legal xbk by then then it is now) after everything is all working. I would love to have it be a legal BIOS, but not thinking thats a number 1 concern.
PS- I don't use linux because of so many hours/years on windows based, i just kinda had a hard time with making the switch, and having to compile everything. I guess i'm spoiled with unzip/unraring files and just run them. Heheh, so i've very interested and excited to see this take off. And really respect and appreciate the hell out of you guys for going that extra mile to try to finally make this actually happen.
Post by: betaluva on November 14, 2004, 10:54:00 PM
Post by: Flame2k on November 21, 2004, 06:40:00 AM
Post by: betaluva on November 21, 2004, 03:23:00 PM
Post by: Shadow7789 on November 21, 2004, 05:46:00 PM
Good Luck on the project
Post by: dcemuser on November 21, 2004, 05:28:00 PM
What's the status of the project? Let me guess... it died?
Post by: John Hoek on November 22, 2004, 04:06:00 AM
I just read you're comments and the progre4ss on the topic.
Henze, didn't you know that there IS ALREADY A WORKING WINDOWS-CE available?!
(ie. Windows-CE is the old name for Windows Embedded)It's even downloadable from xbins, and has even made a frontpagepost on xbox-scene.
This version BOOTS completly, without errors; only the mouse isn't working yet.
Even some programs run already.
quote:
Xbox Focus Support
>> A new Windows CE version for Xbox has been released with support for the Focus videochip. From readme:
| QUOTE |
Xbox-Windows.org would like to thank the generous donation from http://www.Xbox-Gear.com which facilitated this release! Focus Support is now added to allow you to run the Ce-Xbox proof of concept code on your v1.4/v1.5 *NOTE* The CE image that's included in this release hasn't changed, there have been some other small tasks completed for the project, but we still need help. Remember please visit our site http://xbox-windows.org for updates or visit #xbox-windows on irc://irc.oftc.net Thanks again to Artifex, Phoenix, http://www.Xbox-Gear.com , and all those out there that allowed for running of unsigned code on our favorite game console! |
Official Site: xbox-windows.org (by tjfontaine)
Download: here | mirror (by xclive.com) (9MB)
News-Source: xbox-gear.com
(February 26 02:16 GMT+1) - (direct link to article)
(Posted by:: XanTium)
Back to the news-page
unquote:
Is this effort not worth to work on?! The programmer needs to have help to get it done and get hardware drivers etc.
Why invent the wheel new?
Post by: John Hoek on November 22, 2004, 04:10:00 AM
Keep up the good work!
Post by: Flame2k on November 23, 2004, 12:27:00 PM
Post by: Scan-C on November 23, 2004, 01:31:00 PM
i`ve worked on this project whenever i could. after heavy testing with cromwell i realized this isn`t the way to go. atm i`m trying to write a very basic bios which i can extend when it`s running.
just a little update to let you all know that i`m alive
Post by: dirkoneill on November 23, 2004, 01:07:00 PM
Post by: Supplicium on November 24, 2004, 08:41:00 AM
Post by: Flame2k on November 25, 2004, 04:30:00 AM
Post by: Shadow7789 on November 25, 2004, 10:28:00 AM
Post by: Scan-C on November 25, 2004, 10:25:00 AM
what i need are testers for v1.0 - v1.3, v1.4 -v1.5, v1.6 and v1.6b
Post by: Flame2k on November 26, 2004, 09:29:00 AM
Post by: h8raid on November 26, 2004, 10:42:00 AM
@scan-C, glad to see that things are progressing, sorry I haven't been around here much lately, things with work and school have been crazy as you know. Anyways, I want to chat with you about the bios you are working on. From your posts it appears you are building it from scratch, if this is so, very impressive. I know there are several bios coders in the scene, hopefully once you get things to a point where they can see some progress this project will finally take off. What I mean is, once you can see it, people tend to get more interested and are more willing to help out. I have a few people I have in mind for the task and am going to be contacting them over the weekend, I will pm you with my results on recruits to help you code.
Thank you for your efforts,
-H8raid
Post by: Shadow7789 on November 26, 2004, 11:17:00 AM
Post by: Flame2k on November 26, 2004, 01:12:00 PM
Post by: Scan-C on November 28, 2004, 07:23:00 AM
once loaded it will search for a configuration file which holds the place of the windows directory.
but this is all far from working. atm i'm happy when i get to see my test message the first time telling me the gpu is initialized.
Post by: Flame2k on November 28, 2004, 07:26:00 AM
keep up the good work man
Post by: total_ass on November 28, 2004, 10:40:00 AM
though if this is acheived it will be kick ass.
Post by: Shadow7789 on November 28, 2004, 07:40:00 PM
Post by: Flame2k on December 01, 2004, 11:06:00 AM
Post by: expert01 on December 02, 2004, 10:51:00 PM
One I've heard about is Windows writing over protected areas of memory. Well, why not make a memory manager, like there used to be in DOS?
Then alot of people said that there would be problems with Windows not recognizing FatX partitions and wanting to format them... well, that's why you can put a new HDD in your box.
Then there is the PCI Bus scan. Here is the information I've found about the 98 boot process:
| QUOTE |
1. The computer loads and executes the IO.SYS file (basically DOS). The initialization code initializes the base system device drivers, determines equipment states, resets the disk system, resets and initializes attached devices, and sets the system dafault parameters. 2. The file system is activated, and control is returned to the IO.sys initialization code. 3.The "Starting Windows" message is displayed for <n> seconds, or until you press a Windows function key. The amount of time the message is displayed is determined by the BootDelay=<n> line in the MSDOS.sys file; the default is 2 seconds. 4. The IO.sys initialization code reads the MSDOS.sys configuration file. If you have multiple hardware profiles, you receive the following message and must choose a hardware configuration to use: <b>Windows cannot determine what configuration your computer is on.</b> 5. The LOGO.sys file is loaded and displays a startup image on the screen. 6. If the DRVSPACE.INI or DBLSPACE.INI files exist, they are loaded into memory. IO.SYS also automatically loads HIMEM.SYS (a memory manager), IFSHLP.SYS (a minimal file system), and SETVER.EXE (if config.sys doesn't exist). 7. The IO.SYS file checks the system Registry files (SYSTEM.DAT and USER.DAT) for valid data. 8. IO.SYS opens the SYSTEM.DAT file. If the SYSTEM.DAT file is not found, the SYSTEM.DA0 file is used for startup. If Windows 9x starts successfully, the SYSTEM.DA0 file is copied to the SYSTEM.DAT file. 9. The DBLBUFF.SYS file is loaded if the DoubleBuffer=1 is used in the MSDOS.SYS file or if double buffering is enabled under the following registry key: HKLM\SYSTEM\CURRENTCONTROLSET\CONTROL\WINBOOT\DOUBLEBUFFER (Windows 9x Setup automatically enables double buffering if it detects that it is required) 10. If you have multiple hardware profiles, the hardware profile you chose is loaded from the registry. 11. In Windows 9x, the system looks in the Registry's HKLM\SYSTEM\CURRENTCONTROLSET key to load the device drivers and other parameters specified there before executing the CONFIG.SYS file. 12. WIN.COM (Windows' protected mode loader) is loaded and run. 13. WIN.COM accesses the VMM32.VXD file (real-mode virtual device driver library). If there is enough available RAM, the VMM32.VXD file loads into memory. Otherwise, it is accessed from the hard disk. 14. The real-mode virtual device driver loader (VMM32.VXD) checks for duplicate virtual device drivers (VxDs) in the WINDOWS\SYSTEM\VMM32 folder and the VMM32.VXD file. If a VxD exists in both the WINDOWS\SYSTEM\VMM32 folder and the VMM32.VXD file, the duplicate VXD is "marked" in the VMM32.VXD file so that it is not loaded. 15. VxDs that are not already loaded by the VMM32.VXD file are loaded from the [386 Enh] section of the WINDOWS\SYSTEM.INI file. Required VXDs: BIOSXLAT, CONFIGMG, DYNAPAGE, DOSMGR, EBIOS, IFSMGR, INT13, IOS, PAGESWAP, SHELL, V86MMGR, VCD, VCACHE, VCOMM, VCOND, VDD, VDMAC, VFAT, VKD, VMCPD, VPICD, VTD, VTDAPI, VWIN32, VXDLDR. (I suppose this is where you might put in FATX and NTFS drivers) 16. The real-mode virtual device driver loader checks that all required VXDs loaded successfully. If not, it attempts to load the drivers again. 17. Once the real-mode virtual device driver loading is logged, driver initialization occurs. If any VXDs require real-mode initialization, they begin their process in real mode. 18. VMM32 switches the computers processor from real mode to protected mode. 19. A three-phase VXD initialization process occurs in which the drivers are loaded according to their InitDevice instead of the order in which they are loaded into memory. 20. After all the VXDs are loaded, the KRNL32.DLL, GDI.EXE, USER.EXE, and EXPLORER.EXE (the default Windows 9X GUI shell) files are loaded. |
So, it appears to me that if we use a hacked or from-scratch IO.SYS, then we can get Windows to skip scanning the PCI bus. Or, make a boot loader that overwrites the boot sector and loads a program that will emulate the PCI bus, then loads Windows98. Additionally, it might be prudent to have a BIOS that gives out IRQs, I/O ports, and DMA channels instead of letting Windows do plug and play.
Also, it might be possible to modify the boot sectors for Win98SE so that it can read FatX, although it would be a bad idea since you can only have names 44 letters long. Maybe create a device driver to do it... I might have a DDK lying around here somewhere.
One thing I'm not too sure about is how exactly the PCI bus works. Is the PCI bus included in a chip or in the BIOS? Because a BIOS only bus you could modify to report there are no devices, but a hardware bus might need an extra chip that the BIOS can refer to.
NOTE: I have realised that it should be possible to make a version of DOS (or use one that exists) that boots up on XBox, then runs WIN.COM, bypassing checks on the PCI Bus. But I don't know if 98SE checks at any other places.
Anyways, if Windows 98 SE isn't plausible, has anyone considered OS/2 Warp 4?
(Useful sites)
http://home.att.net/~rayknights/pc_boot/w98bboot.htm <---Windows98se Boot Sector Info
http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:jThskoKK2ZwJ:www.geocities.com/thestarman3/asm/mbr/MSWIN41.htm+&hl=en
I've got some experience making websites (I just made my personal website a few weeks ago and only really started working on it the last few days. http://brent.freelinuxhost.com/), and might be able to help there. Also, WinXBE is good for a group name, but how about Win9Xbox for the actual release if we get 9X working, and Windows XbP or something if we get XP running?
[P.S. - Seems like we need more information on what we're dealing with -- IBM-PC compatible BIOS, PCI Bus, etc.]
Post by: h8raid on December 03, 2004, 12:07:00 PM
Post by: dj screwSUC on December 04, 2004, 06:22:00 PM
Post by: Scan-C on December 05, 2004, 05:36:00 AM
if someone could get information if win 98 scans only in io.sys that would be really helpful in the future.
Post by: expert01 on December 05, 2004, 01:29:00 PM
Post by: Xbox2005 on December 06, 2004, 12:47:00 AM
Good Luck
It will be cool to install windows on an xbox
Post by: Shadow7789 on December 06, 2004, 04:01:00 PM
Post by: expert01 on December 06, 2004, 10:07:00 PM
| QUOTE (Shadow7789 @ Dec 7 2004, 01:04 AM) |
| Just make sure that it supports Windows Server. With only 64 mb of ram, with a max of 128 ram, it is basically useless for all games that are Direct 8.1 and higher (when running windows). I see my Xbox setup as a windows FTP server and VNC server. Maybe a web server too! |
Well, I hope you don't mean any NT version of Windows... those would be much more complex to do. Although I suppose you could always just install free servers, like Apache (etc.).
Post by: Shadow7789 on December 07, 2004, 10:01:00 AM
Post by: total_ass on December 07, 2004, 10:32:00 AM
Post by: Scan-C on December 07, 2004, 02:00:00 PM
just out of curiosity... if you want your xbox to be a ftp or web server why not use linux? the setup is easy and windows server can't beat the speed and stability.
Post by: betaluva on December 07, 2004, 02:54:00 PM
Post by: Shadow7789 on December 08, 2004, 05:45:00 PM
Post by: h8raid on December 10, 2004, 01:04:00 AM
Post by: Flame2k on December 10, 2004, 08:55:00 AM
Post by: scottprotege on December 10, 2004, 11:42:00 AM
Ive already set up a channel #WinXBE on irc.championsofnothing.com
im there all the time so check it out
Post by: betaluva on December 10, 2004, 10:04:00 PM
Post by: wolrahnaes on December 11, 2004, 12:58:00 AM
Also, I had an idea while reading this thread...I think it would be very helpful if this BIOS could spoof the partition structure that Windows sees so that you could have your regular Xbox stuff on C, E, and F, and use G for Windows. This obviously should be optional, because there are quite a few modders who have HDs < 137GB, and thus have no G. Maybe the ability to do the same with F could be useful.
This way you could have a native install to a FAT32 partition, but down the road with the help of drivers, you could access the Xbox partitions that have been bumped to the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th positions.
Last, I know someone's going to eventually say something about "why not just make a loader XBE...etc...", and before that even starts I'd just like to mention for the less knowledgable that you can put a BIOS loader as an item in your dashboard, so you would not have to switch BIOSes (or reflash on lesser chips) to use this.
I'd hope that this is common knowledge among people here on the forums, but judging from how many hundreds of "Can I Just Put In My XP CD????" type threads there are in this section, I'm not so sure...
Post by: Flame2k on December 11, 2004, 10:15:00 AM
Post by: LESTAT on December 11, 2004, 10:21:00 AM
i said and most people disagreed only becuase they had no clue wtf embedded xp even was, but i have to assume you already know this.
Embedded XP dont care about bios's. now we all know the xbox bios cares, and is the factor here that we have to get around. but XP Embedded can run, boot and fully function from an 8 meg rom chip on a pcb board or directly from a tiny amount of ram.. fully function with a netowrk, and have as many or as little applications and windows items as you choose to install.
so inshort, Embedded is the 1 and only way to go. it wont care one little bit what hardware you have as long as you can provide it with network, video, and other xbox only drivers. after that., well,, its in the bag.
my best friend is the IT and programming manager for the company he works for. embedded and dos is all he works with and their entire programming process for the machinery they sell is all embedded now, as far as i know.
i asked him about a year ago to join up here and dive into the win xbox project but alas he dont have an xbox and dont really have the time with all that is happening at work.
he didnt understand the xbox bios but the very first thing he said was " it dont sound hard considering we install windows xp embedded on 8 and 16 meg flashrom chips everyday tha work with some of the most whacky hardware you could ever think of and some of the whackiest bios's or no bios's you have seen.
embedded doesnt care about your bios. all you need is to build the embedded image with the proper drivers and apps that you want, and networking and yada yada, and set it up to run on the xbox, burn it to cd and thats all.
all the xbox needs is a call to look at the cd and start the xp embedded process.
and it should run.
but again i tried explaining with my limited knowledge how the xbox functions.
what i didnt know was that the xbox can only handle 1 process at a time.
so if i talk to him this weekend ill talk to him and see if i can get him to join in.
he has a fantastic mind for coding and has done some incredible things things.
id really like to get him here so he can talk to you guys. ill see what i can do.
Post by: betaluva on December 11, 2004, 03:55:00 PM
Post by: LESTAT on December 11, 2004, 04:08:00 PM
the winpe is a good idea too . since it runs from a ram drive.
i also realise that we would like to have XP running. but i think 98 is more of a realistic thought at this point, not only for its simplicity but dos, since there is already dos for the xbox, well,, its another step in the right direction
i know i know 98 yuck but its going to run WAY faster on 64 megs of ram and with the limited hardware aspect of the xbox your less prone ot problems.
but then again, maybe not. :\
Post by: h8raid on December 11, 2004, 04:39:00 PM
That said, I want to give a big thank you for the space on IRC. Props to ScottProtege for the donation.
Post by: Scan-C on December 12, 2004, 01:43:00 PM
xpe is bios independent... thanks for bringing this to my attention. maybe i'll do some more testing. the bios isn't progressing in the last 3 days because i've a problem i can't get right
maybe a little testing and less coding will get me back on the track.if team x-ecuter would help this project would be finished in a week
these guys are that damn good i've nothing but respect for them. if they give any answer please let me know h8raid
Post by: LESTAT on December 12, 2004, 03:29:00 PM
but finding those skilled in programming and setting up embedded installations and also knowledge of xbox's can create a bit of a challenge.
i think i might give my buddy a ring on the phone in a little bit, see if he is up for the challenge.
Post by: Shadow7789 on December 12, 2004, 08:14:00 PM
I would rather see Win ME running on my xbox, then XPe.
Post by: Flame2k on December 13, 2004, 10:00:00 AM
Post by: Flame2k on December 13, 2004, 10:24:00 AM
Post by: expert01 on December 13, 2004, 01:04:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on December 13, 2004, 03:46:00 PM
Post by: GvG on December 13, 2004, 05:44:00 PM
From reading the thread, I've been unable to determine what your target is, Win9x or WinNT/2000/XP. If the target is Win9x (or Embedded), I can't give you any advice, I know next to nothing about those. The following is specific for the NT family (which includes NT4, 2000, XP and 2k3).
There's basically two sets of problems to solve: how to get Windows loaded and how to run it. The sequence of events on a normal PC is: the BIOS loads the Master Boot Record. The MBR determines which partition is active and loads the boot sector for that partition. The boot sector then loads NTLDR which will do the bulk of getting Windows loaded. It does so with the help of the BIOS. For example, to read a sector from the harddisk it will generate a (real mode!) INT13. It will also call upon a lot of other services of the BIOS, most of which are invoked by issuing a real mode INT. Note that a normal PC BIOS is very different from a Xbox BIOS, about the only thing which is the same is the name BIOS. The Xbox BIOS mostly runs in protected mode and is incapable of providing the real mode services which NTLDR needs. So, if you want to use NTLDR you have no choice but to develop a PC BIOS implementation for the Xbox. This is a pretty huge undertaking.
NTLDR will load NTOSKRNL.EXE (the Windows kernel), HAL.DLL (Hardware Abstraction Layer), SYSTEM registry hive, boot device drivers indicated in the system registry hive and some NLS files. It has built-in filesystem support for FAT and NTFS and those will be the only filesystems it will understand. Furthermore, NTLDR will do device detection and build a basic list of devices present in the system. Oh, and by the way, NTLDR expects to be started in real mode. It will switch the CPU to protected mode. Finally NTLDR will transfer control to the kernel.
For ReactOS we developed our own bootloader named FreeLdr. Most of the initial work was done by Brian Palmer. Our FreeLdr handles the same tasks as NTLDR. FreeLdr already runs on the Xbox. Unfortunately, I don't think it can be used to launch Windows. When passing control to the kernel, the boot loader passes a block of parameters. The NTLDR parameter block is not compatible with the FreeLdr parameter block.
When the Windows kernel starts, it will not call the BIOS anymore (with small exceptions, see later). It will enumerate the PCI bus itself, using INP and OUTP instructions. As you know, this process will freeze the Xbox.
Another problem is the video driver. I don't have to tell you that the GPU is very much like the Geforce 3. However, it does have a different PCI id. This means that the standard Nvidia driver will not recognize it. So, Windows will fall back on its default drivers. For older Windows versions, that's a VGA driver. Alas, that driver expects a standard VGA card to be present, with video memory at 0xa0000 and I/O ports. It simply will not work on the Xbox. Newer Windows versions can use VBE based drivers, which depend on the presence of a VGA BIOS (this is the exception I was talking about earlier). So that's another BIOS to write....
For ReactOS, we circumvented the PCI enumeration by writing a customized HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer), which is the component which actually issues the INP and OUTP instructions. The customized HAL simply refuses to do I/O to some "blacklisted" PCI slot numbers (0:0:1 and 0:0:2 to be exact). The rest of the OS interprets the results as "nothing to see there, let's move on". The video driver issue was solved by writing a video driver for the Xbox.
The biggest challenge for me when porting ReactOS to the Xbox was the boot loader. The OS itself was actually pretty easy. I think the same is true for getting Windows to run: if you get NTLDR to do it's job you're almost there.
I've probably left out lots of details, if you have questions please feel free to ask, I'll drop by every now and then (or you can email me: [email protected]). The source code for ReactOS is freely available, just remember that it's under the GPL, which means that if you use any part of it you must also publish your source code.
Post by: jimmsta on December 13, 2004, 07:24:00 PM
Post by: h8raid on December 13, 2004, 10:33:00 PM
H8raid
Post by: total_ass on December 14, 2004, 04:30:00 AM
or get ReactOS running really really good. i wouldn't mind using ReactOS, it looks good and will have an easy interface.
Post by: GvG on December 14, 2004, 11:40:00 AM
h8raid: Sorry, didn't want to imply that this wasn't known, at least by the "inner crowd". It's just that I hadn't seen a list of items to be done.
total_ass: You guys have a nice challenging project going here. I love a good challenge but ReactOS is already providing that for me.
Post by: total_ass on December 14, 2004, 12:34:00 PM
I would really love to be able to use it on my xbox.
Post by: GvG on December 14, 2004, 03:04:00 PM
Post by: Xbox2005 on December 14, 2004, 10:05:00 PM
I hope that finally people will be able to run windows 98 especially on the xbox gaming console
Post by: Flame2k on December 15, 2004, 09:23:00 AM
Post by: total_ass on December 15, 2004, 10:52:00 AM
but keep trying to get windows working!!!
nothing is impossible.
Post by: GvG on December 15, 2004, 04:10:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on December 15, 2004, 11:16:00 PM
Post by: Shadow7789 on December 17, 2004, 05:59:00 PM
Post by: h8raid on December 17, 2004, 08:12:00 PM
Post by: GvG on December 18, 2004, 07:32:00 AM
| QUOTE (Shadow7789 @ Dec 18 2004, 02:26 AM) |
| I think we should try to focus on Windows, not ReactOS (no offense GvG). I for one would prefer to eventually have Windows running natively on my box. |
No offense taken, I'm very much aware of the current state of ReactOS. I never ment to imply that at this point ReactOS is a viable alternative to Windows, it just isn't (yet), not even on the PC where you can actually use the mouse and keyboard. And even if ReactOS was a good alternative, it would still be cool to see Windows running. I think both projects should be able to co-exist and maybe even learn something from each other.
Post by: Flame2k on December 18, 2004, 08:58:00 AM
Post by: Shadow7789 on December 18, 2004, 09:55:00 AM
Post by: ZASADAR on December 18, 2004, 03:39:00 PM
also when i installed quadro drivers for my geforce2 i changed the the video drivers id will this work on the xbox?
Post by: h8raid on December 18, 2004, 05:34:00 PM
Post by: Shadow7789 on December 19, 2004, 07:49:00 AM
| QUOTE (ZASADAR @ Dec 19 2004, 12:42 AM) |
| reactos only runs win2k and up wont that take up a lot of resources? I wont be able to do much with only 64meg or even 128 on win2k also when i installed quadro drivers for my geforce2 i changed the the video drivers id will this work on the xbox? |
Zasadar, I have been able to run XP on a P2-350 with 64 Megs of Ram, wasn't the greatest performance though, but I can see running Windows 2000 with 64 megs of ram, and windows 98 or ME should run extremely well with only 64 megs. (I originally had 98 on the PC)
BTW, if somone happened to be modded for a processor/ram, then they should be able to run windows XP/2000 fine, not nessarily a gaming pc, but that is not what was intended.
Post by: Flame2k on December 19, 2004, 08:00:00 AM
ive been reading up on how windows works and boots, soon i should actually be able to help with this project lol.
Post by: Flame2k on December 23, 2004, 12:04:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on December 23, 2004, 02:19:00 PM
Post by: Xbox2005 on December 28, 2004, 07:37:00 PM
Hi!I hope that u guys will get windows 98 running on the xbox without any hardware modding needed!
Since the xbox does not have a floppy disk drive,how is it possible to boot from a non bootable windows 98 cd?
Good Luck and Merry CHritmas and a happy new year!
Post by: LESTAT on December 28, 2004, 09:30:00 PM
QUOTE(Xbox2005 @ Dec 28 2004, 10:08 PM)
Hi!I hope that u guys will get windows 98 running on the xbox without any hardware modding needed!
Since the xbox does not have a floppy disk drive,how is it possible to boot from a non bootable windows 98 cd?
Good Luck and Merry CHritmas and a happy new year!
how about you read the thread they arent going to do 98 they want ot do XP Embedded which when set up properly is smaller than windows 95 and runs like XP.
you can make an embedded XP install with mobo drivers video and network thats under 100megs
im keeping the light of for these boys, hopin they come home soon with a butt kickin Embedded install.
oh fellas i talked to my buddy that program's Embedded installs, and he dont have and xbox and work has him pulling insane hours since he is the IT manager and the Develpment Dept Manager, so he wont be able to offer much help.
he keeps telling me though that its not as hard as you guys are making it, i sent him an xbe file just to look at and see what an xbe file does, and he didnt look at it immediately but he simply said that installing E,bedded is the simply stuff, just install what you need on a partition, or cdrom and run it from there. i kept telling him that the bios is blocking it cuz its not xbox code,
he said ther eis a way, its MS code there are holes all over in their code.
he keeps saying just create an embedded CD and run it.
meaning load the components of embedded you want, load the drivers for the xbox video audio and network and others, run the Embedded setup tool burn it to cd and run it. but again he's not understanding the xbox bios.
ill push him harder to grab a bios file and see what he can do.
so i apologize for not being able to get him to join up he's just to busy right now.
Post by: Xbox2005 on December 28, 2004, 11:27:00 PM
Windows 98 is the best option as it supports many programs and it has a very little system requirement.Lets focus on Windows 98 and not some other embedded os first. After that, we can work on the embedded os'es
Win 98 min requirements:
• A personal computer with a 486DX 66 megahertz (MHz) or faster processor (Pentium central processing unit recommended).
• 16 megabytes (MB) of memory (24 MB recommended).
• A full install of Windows 98 on a FAT16 drive requires 225 MB of free hard disk space, but may range from between 165 MB and 355 MB, depending on your computer configuration and that options that you choose to install.
• A full install of Windows 98 on a FAT32 drive requires 175 MB of free hard disk space, but may range from between 140 MB and 255 MB, depending on your computer configuration and the options that you choose to install.
• One 3.5-inch high-density floppy disk drive.
• VGA or higher resolution (16-bit or 24-bit color SVGA recommended).
Xbox specs:
An Intel Celeron (Coppermine) based processor clocked at 733 MHz
An nVIDIA NV2A graphics processor which in terms of its PC brethren lies somewhere between the GeForce 3 and 4 lines
64 MB of system RAM.
A DVD-ROM drive
An 8 or 10 GB hard disk
10/100 Ethernet.
Stripped down version of Windows 2000 kernel
So Windows 98 is perfect to run on the xbox.
But you need a bootable windows 98 cd as the xbox has no floppy drive.You can copy its contents to your pc harddrive and use nero or some other burning tool to burn the contents again as a bootable cd.
We also need to format the xbox fatx partition as fat32.
I hope all these will be possible without needing a modchip.
If the project is successful, then the xbox can be used as a websurfing pc!!
So GOOD LUCK and give your best shot!
Post by: h8raid on December 29, 2004, 02:10:00 AM
@LESTAT, thank you for trying to get your buddy involved. Things are crazy everywhere right now so it's not surprising he has a lot to deal with. Once things calm down for him, talk to him again and make him sit down with you and show him on your box that we are not dealing with a "normal" system. There are securities in place which prohibit us from just installing embedded on the Xbox. Also, what we have been working on is a bios from scratch that will allow us to install whatever version of Windows we want. Basically, it is a PC bios for the Xbox to oversimplify what it is.
Regards,
H8raid
Post by: chimpanzee on December 29, 2004, 11:07:00 AM
QUOTE(LESTAT @ Dec 29 2004, 05:25 AM)
he keeps telling me though that its not as hard as you guys are making it, i sent him an xbe file just to look at and see what an xbe file does, and he didnt look at it immediately but he simply said that installing E,bedded is the simply stuff, just install what you need on a partition, or cdrom and run it from there. i kept telling him that the bios is blocking it cuz its not xbox code,
he said ther eis a way, its MS code there are holes all over in their code.
he keeps saying just create an embedded CD and run it.
he said ther eis a way, its MS code there are holes all over in their code.
he keeps saying just create an embedded CD and run it.
He may be good at what he does on PC but knows nothing about Xbox. A Xbox may looks very much like a PC(on spec) but it is not one, the closest analogy is a chimp and human being :-)
Post by: Shadow7789 on December 29, 2004, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: Xbox2005 on December 29, 2004, 11:35:00 PM
Windows Millenium is not a good choice as i've been using it for three years with so many problems.I had to format my hard drive and reinstall it almost every week.Sounds incredible but it is true.Windows 98se supports many programs and does not need so much ram but windows xp needs at least 128mb ram.So Win 2000 & Win 98se are the best choices
Post by: LESTAT on December 30, 2004, 05:46:00 AM
but its a troublesome OS. too many issues.
i said use 98 cuz we already have DOS or at least a dos emulator for the xbox so go further and load 98 into it.
but you have to understand that Windows XP EMbedded is in incredible operating system. i said it before and ill say it to you gentlemen again, XP Embedded is designed to run on flash rom chips ots designed ot run on VERY VERY wierd mchaines, like factory computers that have a few 8 meg rom chips in them, with hardware you will never find in a PC.
remember how linux can run off a floppy, using a very tiny linux kernel ? well think of a very similar thing using XP.
Windows XP also does not care about your BIOS. or your hardware the xbox bios is where the problem comes in. it does care what you try and run. if its not xbox code , it wont run it.
XP EMbedded will scream if they use it properly on 64 megs of ram.
let these fine gentlemen use their programming talents, they will get it running but it will take time.
Post by: chimpanzee on December 30, 2004, 08:26:00 AM
So instead of spending effort on trying to run Windows on Xbox natively(almost impossible and of not much use even if it works due to the poor TV display), why not help out openxdk so that apps can be built with it and run natively on Xbox ?
Post by: Shadow7789 on December 30, 2004, 02:33:00 PM
@LESTAT, we don't want to run Embedded, that could be a separate project, but it was mentioned before, we want to run a standard windows version, something that does not require above normal PC knowlege to run.
@Xbox2005, right now, the project does not have enough of a base to run 2k. Windows 2k and Windows XP have alot in common. If we were able to run 2k, then XP would be possible. In my opinion, 2k is better for the xbox than XP, but seeing that both are not possible, we should not worry about 2k right now.
Post by: Shadow7789 on December 30, 2004, 09:01:00 PM
If ME is not good, then I would still rather take 98 SE than 98.
INstead of
If ME is good, then I would rather take 98 SE than 98.
Post by: Xbox2005 on December 30, 2004, 10:12:00 PM
I think that you should work on windows 98 se.It can support 16bit and 32 bit programs and can run old dos games with no problems.It only needs very little ram so it would be a good choice.What actually is windows xp embedded?Does it need at least 128mb ram?Please tell me.If it is good,then i think you should also try to work on it too.
Good luck anyway! Windows 98se is 45% better than windows millenium.I wouldnt recommend windows me!
Post by: Flame2k on December 31, 2004, 09:25:00 AM
we are going for 98se.
Post by: h8raid on December 31, 2004, 05:07:00 PM
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on December 31, 2004, 06:00:00 PM
its unstable
it crashs alot
no major updatse to fix crashs
my pc died twice when i had winme (not able to boot into windows)
I got winxp and have never looked back.
IMO 2k is the best OS but quite expensive..
-BxN
Post by: Xbox2005 on December 31, 2004, 08:19:00 PM
Post by: Shadow7789 on January 01, 2005, 12:10:00 AM
Post by: betaluva on January 01, 2005, 12:21:00 AM
Post by: Stabby_McTwist on January 01, 2005, 08:33:00 AM
QUOTE(Xbox2005 @ Dec 30 2004, 01:30 AM)
but windows xp needs at least 128mb ram.
Wrong.. XP doenst need atleast 128 to run...
I am currently on a PII400MHz with 96MB ram running Windows XP.
And in my opinion XPEmbedded would be the best system to get running.
As everyones said.. its designed to run on less than ideal systems.
Also, as far as 'not being good because youre output is to a TV' doesnt XP support out to TV and make the res. look better? I dont know.. I just thought I heard that somewhere.
I am also in agreement with just about everyone here.
95 - sooo outdated, no USB support
98 - see above
98se - better because of USB support but still old
ME - ew.. unstable, horrid idea by MS, just bad..
2000 - better choice than the above.. IMO resource hog..
XP - maybe a little less stable (in some cases) than 2k, but more 'old system' friendly
[Edit:] Oh and Happy New Year!
Post by: Flame2k on January 01, 2005, 11:58:00 AM
Post by: h8raid on January 01, 2005, 03:45:00 PM
H8raid
Post by: Shadow7789 on January 01, 2005, 05:06:00 PM
Post by: h8raid on January 02, 2005, 01:50:00 AM
Post by: xspidman on January 02, 2005, 03:26:00 AM
Please keep my up to date
My email is: [email protected]
btw if you guys need gmail accounts just tell me
you can reach me on AIM too : Lilxac2
Post by: gronne on January 02, 2005, 06:54:00 AM
I feel sorry for you H8raid, people really are stupid here. What if people actually read what's been written.... They will make win 98(se), and when they've accomplished that, the discussion about any other os can be brought up again. Please don't bother the authors with stupid discussions.
Post by: h8raid on January 02, 2005, 11:40:00 AM
EDIT: I just actually read the post by xspidman, quit smoking crack. This kid obviously has no idea what the fuck he is doing and is just posting to waste time. No shit less ram is a good thing, really, I don't think that was a given or anything! Also, about running the games and Windows at the same time, show me where any of the project members have EVER discussed this, they haven't, it is your own little fantasy and is not going to happen. If it were going to ever happen, you would want to look for it out of linux. I wasn't going to bitch at you, except your post was just too fucking flamboyantly retarded to let it stand.
Post by: Shadow7789 on January 02, 2005, 11:49:00 AM
Hey, is there any progress on the website? Is anyone ever on the IRC channel?
I know there is alot of work going on that is not talked about in the forum, but I think it would be helpful if there could be one place that everyone could go for information.
Also, we need an official to do list. Like the one on the Xbox-Linux page.
I'm not a very good webpage designer, but maybe somone could make us one. I know this is not incredably relevent, but it would make it much easier for everyone to know what work is being done.
Post by: Flame2k on January 02, 2005, 01:57:00 PM
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on January 02, 2005, 02:36:00 PM
The xbox does have PCI buses... They are just not user accsesable...
So we would have to probe the ports on a PC pci and see how it talks with the mobo, then recode the hacked bios so it talks the same way but to the Xbox PCI... We may need to create hacked drivers ...
We also need alot more coders...
-BxN
Post by: h8raid on January 02, 2005, 02:57:00 PM
Post by: Smoko on January 02, 2005, 04:17:00 PM
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on January 02, 2005, 04:03:00 PM
-BxN
Post by: xspidman on January 02, 2005, 04:45:00 PM
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on January 02, 2005, 07:56:00 PM
-BxN
Post by: h8raid on January 02, 2005, 10:24:00 PM
You should have noticed you skipped to the last page and didn't read anything. You should never comment in a thread without reading about what's going on. The mistake was yours so don't start thread crapping because I will not hesitate to report you.
Post by: xspidman on January 03, 2005, 08:14:00 AM
Post by: total_ass on January 03, 2005, 08:41:00 AM
Post by: Shadow7789 on January 03, 2005, 05:07:00 PM
Total_ass, that is a good idea, but we need more than a posting on X-S. Now would be a great time to get a webpage going. If anyone has a webserver, now would be a good time to come forth. We don't need a great webpage, we can make one of those later, right now we just need something (with a to-do list and email addresses). Also, an official IRC channel would be helpful. Now, since I am not working on this project, I'll leave these decisions to higher authority, but in my opinion, we should put the IRC channel at:
#WinXBE
irc.oftc.net
so that we can have the any xbox-linux developers in our channel. (Xbox-linux and, i believe, Xbox-Windows (CE) both have channels on that server)
Post by: thecrazy on January 04, 2005, 01:19:00 AM
As long as you dont start asking for some messed up database and stuff...
At least not if you want something running fast.
Just hum.... pm me i guess.
Ill need a list of what you guys need and some contact info cause i HATE FORUMS!
Thecrazy.
---
And BTW i just went to the irc chan there is nobody... Ne1 heard of the art of idling?
Post by: thecrazy on January 05, 2005, 02:35:00 PM
I check it everyday still waiting for an update guys.
Also earlier (couple of pages up) another guy offered his services for a website his he comming up with something? cause i dont feel like doing a website for nothing.
Post by: xspidman on January 05, 2005, 06:53:00 PM
freewebs.com
Post by: betaluva on January 05, 2005, 07:19:00 PM
Post by: h8raid on January 06, 2005, 05:08:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on January 06, 2005, 06:14:00 PM
Post by: thecrazy on January 06, 2005, 09:09:00 PM
But as all of you do i have a real life too so dont expect this to appear by magic tomorrow.
Also we need a host. Preferably one that can do PHP or ASP.
Cable and DSL connection dont even waste your time we all got one.
If you got anything *REAL* to offer pm me.
I dont think will have a huge amount of traffic but id like the site not to go down when we are posted on the main page if you get the idea.
Basicly a small corner on a shared server should do just right.
No need to be big, just solid.
Post by: Flame2k on January 08, 2005, 04:54:00 AM
lets get this started, i might be able to get some hosting, thats a might.
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on January 12, 2005, 09:05:00 AM
I can help out with the site.
-BxN
Post by: betaluva on January 13, 2005, 06:01:00 PM
Post by: total_ass on January 17, 2005, 11:15:00 AM
not been any activity recently.
Post by: betaluva on January 17, 2005, 03:18:00 PM
,this project is alive and well, its the start of a new year and everyone is busy at the moment, im afraid people will just have to be patient.
Post by: djdafreund on January 17, 2005, 09:31:00 PM
PS- Just because you don't see any releases, doesn't mean nothings going on. Takes time, and we'll all love, and appreciate the hell out of the formed team here for making it happen, and can finally switch from Linux to Windows (not that linux is crap, just not the same when your a windows user for so many years, and certain software that doesn't have a linux version, and doesn't run under wine)
Post by: gronne on January 19, 2005, 08:56:00 AM
Post by: total_ass on January 19, 2005, 03:34:00 PM
QUOTE(djdafreund @ Jan 18 2005, 05:02 AM)
Funny, his user name says it all.
i was in no way being an 'ass', i was simply asking if it was still active. i'm not criticising the lack of updates, nor am i nagging anyone to hurry up at all.
perhaps we should switch usernames, as it applies to you more in this sense.
Post by: betaluva on January 19, 2005, 04:29:00 PM
Post by: LESTAT on January 19, 2005, 05:00:00 PM
my gentoo runs fine from the hard drie although i think the rootfs file thing was not very smart,, it should have been layed out in folders just like if it was native, then a usr etc and all the other folders right in your F drive , this would speed things up considerably.
anyways shout out to all you xp programmers working on this, awesome keep chuggin along and all of us will be here when you ready!
Post by: evanmugford on January 19, 2005, 08:37:00 PM
kepp up the good work guys i was starting to get board with my xbox done everything else with it nice to see ppl trying something new.
Post by: thecrazy on January 20, 2005, 01:49:00 AM
Im still alive but i was on vacation
for a week and a half so guess what hapened ..
i took the oportunity to NOT DO ANYTHING!
Cheers!Ok not true... I got drunk
a several times and hosted a lan party with 16 ppl in my small appartment. (That makes me think guys.. we need to do something about lan parties and chicks...)HA!
You take that boss!
That was a good vacation.
Now im back so im gonna take a couples of days off that drug like
addictive game "WoW" and finish that website.BTW Betaluva im still waiting on those pics of yours.
L8tr!
PS.: Dont you just love that smiley --->
im lmao
Post by: evanmugford on January 20, 2005, 10:45:00 AM
check it out at
Post by: gronne on January 20, 2005, 11:30:00 AM
QUOTE(evanmugford @ Jan 20 2005, 07:16 PM)
i was board so i made a little loading screen for the windows xbox webpage
check it out at http://www.cbnflpool.com/loading.swf
check it out at http://www.cbnflpool.com/loading.swf
Really nice. A bit groiny perhaps, but still. Is the project called Windows XB? Good name if that's the case. But it doesn't seem likely as they'll start with windows 98.
Post by: evanmugford on January 20, 2005, 10:58:00 AM
i just pulled out of my @$$ lol figured it was apropreat no matter what version we use because even if we use 98 its still going to be modifed so technically it will be windows xbox lol
Post by: djdafreund on January 20, 2005, 02:16:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on January 20, 2005, 04:49:00 PM
Post by: evanmugford on January 20, 2005, 06:50:00 PM
Post by: total_ass on January 21, 2005, 10:07:00 AM
and the mystery of what happens when win is mixed with xbox.
Post by: devguy on January 21, 2005, 10:29:00 PM
you mean when it is mixed with the xobx
Post by: evanmugford on January 21, 2005, 10:16:00 PM
Post by: h8raid on January 22, 2005, 01:05:00 AM
Post by: evanmugford on January 22, 2005, 07:38:00 AM
ftp://24.222.82.76
port 21
xbox
xbox
Post by: betaluva on January 22, 2005, 11:46:00 PM
Post by: jedi223 on January 24, 2005, 06:44:00 AM
Also uploaded ScummVMx 0.5.1
Post by: h8raid on January 24, 2005, 10:59:00 AM
QUOTE(jedi223 @ Jan 24 2005, 02:39 PM)
Added the pbl Metoo 1.4 and 1.0 and a few bfm biosses to your ftp, have fun...
Also uploaded ScummVMx 0.5.1
Also uploaded ScummVMx 0.5.1
Why? No offense...but...what the hell does this have to do with WinXBE? Nothing! If you want to leave that stuff on your FTP it's up to you, but don't feel obligated to because in my opinion it doesn't need to be there, that's what Xbins is for and you are not a dumpsite so yea I would pull that shit off it if it were my FTP
Post by: evanmugford on January 24, 2005, 01:41:00 PM
sorry but not hosting a site for anything and everything
but thanks for unploading n e way should have been more clear when i posted about it
Post by: thecrazy on January 25, 2005, 12:59:00 AM
, Just a quick post to let you all know that the webpage is not vaporware
and that im still working on it...
Just hard to get some free time out of a 24hrs day that should have 36.
Man i hate my job...
Anyways, ya know the drill.
Cya all soon!
PS.: Cant wait for our first xbox powered windoom lan party ;P
(or maybe Jdoom for the "connaisseur")O yeah.. and no its not connoisseur you ppl are spelling it wrong... yes you know who you are!
Post by: jedi223 on January 25, 2005, 07:43:00 AM
QUOTE
Why? No offense...but...what the hell does this have to do with WinXBE? Nothing! If you want to leave that stuff on your FTP it's up to you, but don't feel obligated to because in my opinion it doesn't need to be there, that's what Xbins is for and you are not a dumpsite so yea I would pull that shit off it if it were my FTP
Woohooo, hold your horses sorry.
I thought the ftp was for general files AND the winXbe related stuff.
Just wanted to help, don't have to go all flamy
and stuff 
Anyways,
Since the xbox mobo is nForce2 based can't we disect a normal nForce2 bios and try to compare it against the xbox bios?
Maybe just to get the low-level system calls to ne the same as the normal nForce2 chipset.
Also I think the base 3d drivers are also present on the bios because of the 3d bios of the Xbox, maybe you van extract that for use in a driver?
just my 2 cents, if it makes sense at all
cheers
Post by: thebucketmouse on January 25, 2005, 06:54:00 PM
Post by: pennywisdom on January 25, 2005, 11:25:00 PM
that can't be very good.
Post by: betaluva on January 27, 2005, 10:55:00 PM
Post by: total_ass on January 28, 2005, 02:57:00 PM
so Scan-C is MIA and h8raid is banned.
sounds like there is no one left in the project to me.
Post by: Xbox2005 on January 28, 2005, 10:07:00 PM
QUOTE(betaluva @ Jan 28 2005, 07:26 AM)
yes,h8raid is banned BUT im trying to get him unbanned so wish me luck.
h8raid,why dont you create a new account and use it to post.
Post by: betaluva on January 28, 2005, 10:17:00 PM
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on January 29, 2005, 05:23:00 AM
He won't get unbanned.
-BxN
Post by: total_ass on January 29, 2005, 07:00:00 AM
QUOTE(betaluva @ Jan 29 2005, 05:48 AM)
i can see why your called total_ass, because you are!
Post by: thecrazy on February 03, 2005, 07:40:00 AM
Am i still to do a website or what?
My spare time is rare lately.
If this is not gonna be of any use to anyone id like to know it.
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on February 03, 2005, 05:31:00 PM
Page on xpe wikipedia
and found this line
QUOTE
# El Torito CD: Allows the Windows OS image to be booted and run from a CD-ROM.
# Enhanced Write Filter (EWF): Allows the OS to boot from any read-only media. This is not supported by the full versions of the Windows OS because it needs the ability to write to files. Media XPe is enabled to boot to using EWF are flash media, CD-ROM, or a protected hard drivewhile maintaining the appearance of read/write access to the operating system. It protects the volume content on the target media volume by redirecting all writes to another storage location called an overla
y
# Enhanced Write Filter (EWF): Allows the OS to boot from any read-only media. This is not supported by the full versions of the Windows OS because it needs the ability to write to files. Media XPe is enabled to boot to using EWF are flash media, CD-ROM, or a protected hard drivewhile maintaining the appearance of read/write access to the operating system. It protects the volume content on the target media volume by redirecting all writes to another storage location called an overla
y
If there was some way to get el torito cd to run.. We may have a live! version of xpe on the xbox!
What are your thoughts guys (n girls)?
-BxN
Post by: Shadow7789 on February 03, 2005, 06:41:00 PM
For the last time, we are going to use 98. If you want to use XPE so badly, go start your own project.
@thecrazy, continue work on the webpage. If you can get a forum running on that, then we can ditch this thread and move over to yours. Then we don't have to worry about the members of our team who were banned.
Post by: betaluva on February 03, 2005, 06:11:00 PM
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on February 03, 2005, 06:13:00 PM
-BxN
Post by: betaluva on February 05, 2005, 04:30:00 AM
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on February 05, 2005, 06:22:00 AM
I think we should work on getting XP Embedded working since it doesnt give a shit what its running on, also 98se would be laggy and crap.
Otherwise i think we should lay this project to rest...
-BxN
Post by: Flame2k on February 05, 2005, 08:03:00 AM
Post by: total_ass on February 05, 2005, 09:24:00 AM
QUOTE(big_xbox_n00bie @ Feb 5 2005, 12:28 PM)
Otherwise i think we should lay this project to rest...
-BxN
-BxN
agreed. the only person working on this has not posted in a long time.
there has been no progress since this thread started, and the only thing that people are discussing is which version of windows would work best.
imo the project never even started.
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on February 05, 2005, 06:38:00 PM
Otherwise we should just let it die.
-BxN
Post by: thecrazy on February 06, 2005, 05:38:00 AM
Still anyways i had some neet stuff started for the website.
Im going to keep this on my HD until we know what is gonna happen.
If we find our coder somewere ill keep working or if we decide to go ahead with embended.... anyways...
Just one small question.. Wont XPE run regular win32 apps???
Cause I dont get it why we would try to hack a bios if we could get xpe to run....
sounds easier to me... please educate me.
Post by: LESTAT on February 06, 2005, 08:55:00 AM
think of xp embedded as OLD linus, you give it the hardware drivers tell it to use them and then you pick the XP cmponents you wantto install, gui, networking, internet explorer and whatever else. its not setup to install like linux but its the same mentallity.
and here is an embedded overview, read thru it it shows exactly what you do in a round about what YOU tell it what features and compnonents to use then you make an install image.
http://msdn.MS.com/l...EmbeddedTop.asp
and i SWEAR there is a beta you can use to try free from MS. if not ill ask my buddy how you go about getting embedded if your not working for someone who uses it. i messaged him but its 9am so he might be asleep. ill let you know.
ive already talked to him about helping you guys out but since he is the IT and Development manager he dont really have any time.
***EDIT**
here it is embedded evaluation hhmm did you fellas even try MS's site ? i hope so lol hey are offering all kinds of free stuff these days.
http://www.windowsem...spx?source=1013
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on February 06, 2005, 12:49:00 PM
First we need to try XPE under VMARE and see how well it runs
Next we need to see if it will run alone, otherwise we need a hacked bios.
-BxN
Post by: LESTAT on February 06, 2005, 07:21:00 PM
as for how it runs ona PC ? let me tell you its like the speed of running windows 95 on a brand new pent 4 or amd 64 with all the stability of xp with only the features that you want to install, none of the bloated stuff you have when you do an install of regular XP.
Ive only seen one machine running xp and lordy it was on the desktop by the time the monitor was fully on. there is no load time post takes longer than xp does to load.
and like ive tried to expain to you gents dozens of times embedded, is designed if you look around the m$ embedded site to run on some absolutely whacky hardware,, and runs as small or fat as you want it but you have to tell it how to install you set it up with a gui tell it what drivers to use it then creates a boot install image and a remote install image,, no what might be even better is using the remote install set up and installing it via FTP or telenet thru to your xbox.
file system is irrelevant as far as i know since it runs off flashroms.
i used to have the xbox hardware drivers but no longer do, dont know what happened to them guess i thought i would never need them, ill have to find them again cuz if i do i could possibly try to work up an embedded install image.
but since ive never used embedded id need the time to learn it which i dont think its very hard my buddy who is an embedded programmer said its a piece of cake all you need is the hardware drivers.
so if one of you getns have the win32 xbox nic video and mobo drivers pm me.
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on February 06, 2005, 07:26:00 PM
-Edit
We have a few options, WinXP should cover the nic port with its inbuilt drivers, mobo shouldn't be a problem ethier. Only thing is video but we could ask the linux peoples for one? Other ways are write one or use trial and error.
-BxN
Post by: Shadow7789 on February 06, 2005, 09:45:00 PM
As a side note, maybe we should move this thread to somewhere else so that our "leaders" can participate.
Post by: LESTAT on February 06, 2005, 10:04:00 PM
QUOTE(Shadow7789 @ Feb 6 2005, 10:15 PM)
If you want to use WinXPE so badly, go ahead. But, this thread is for normal Windows distros, such as 98. Start your own thread, it isn't that hard. This project will get back on it's feet. Its not like people banned from the forums drop off the face of the earth.
As a side note, maybe we should move this thread to somewhere else so that our "leaders" can participate.
As a side note, maybe we should move this thread to somewhere else so that our "leaders" can participate.
i have no idea what you been reading but this entire thread has been dedicated to getting XP PE and XP Embedded running, not "normal" windows.
we already know that 95 runs with xbox dos and 98 barely runs.
2k is impossible thus far and so is XP.
if you want as it seems you do, win95 98 then YOU go to one of the other threads, as the entire 6 pages has been about XP not 98.
id take 98 hell why not, but definately not thru a dos emu, must run natively. which means formatting one of your partitions as Fat32. or Fat16 sme for XP its either gotta be Fat32 or NTFS.
CE Embedded or XP Embedded or the oly tru choices, and XP embedded install is smaller than 95 or 98 ever thought about being. less than 100 megs for XP with video mobo and networking. Explorer with full gui.
Post by: LESTAT on February 06, 2005, 09:32:00 PM
nothing in the xbox will be native to XP the nic is an nforce NIC and thats not native. Native motherboard drivers would be included in xp i THINK but that wont work well, the ide probably would be ok,, but the agp and other controllers would need proper drivers.
i definately deleted the video and sound drivers and im peeved i wish i had kept them.
im sure the XDK has them though,,, but alas i dont have it and have no intention on downloading it.
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on February 07, 2005, 12:10:00 PM
-BxN
Post by: LESTAT on February 07, 2005, 05:49:00 PM
ill poke around at other places see if the drivers are around anywhere
Post by: Shadow7789 on February 07, 2005, 08:10:00 PM
QUOTE(gronne @ Jan 2 2005, 06:24 AM)
^^^^^^^ I feel sorry for you H8raid, people really are stupid here. What if people actually read what's been written.... They will make win 98(se), and when they've accomplished that, the discussion about any other os can be brought up again. Please don't bother the authors with stupid discussions.
I feel sorry for you H8raid, people really are stupid here. What if people actually read what's been written.... They will make win 98(se), and when they've accomplished that, the discussion about any other os can be brought up again. Please don't bother the authors with stupid discussions.QUOTE(h8raid @ Jan 2 2005, 11:10 AM)
Very well put Gronne, thank you
EDIT: I just actually read the post by xspidman, quit smoking crack. This kid obviously has no idea what the fuck he is doing and is just posting to waste time. No shit less ram is a good thing, really, I don't think that was a given or anything! Also, about running the games and Windows at the same time, show me where any of the project members have EVER discussed this, they haven't, it is your own little fantasy and is not going to happen. If it were going to ever happen, you would want to look for it out of linux. I wasn't going to bitch at you, except your post was just too fucking flamboyantly retarded to let it stand.
EDIT: I just actually read the post by xspidman, quit smoking crack. This kid obviously has no idea what the fuck he is doing and is just posting to waste time. No shit less ram is a good thing, really, I don't think that was a given or anything! Also, about running the games and Windows at the same time, show me where any of the project members have EVER discussed this, they haven't, it is your own little fantasy and is not going to happen. If it were going to ever happen, you would want to look for it out of linux. I wasn't going to bitch at you, except your post was just too fucking flamboyantly retarded to let it stand.
Not Working on 98, Eh? THis is on Page 14 of this thread.
I wasn't gonna bitch you about this, but after rereading your posts, I couldn't resist. The whole point of this thread is so that I could Pop My Win 98 Disc in my Xbox, and install it. Don't tell me that 98 can't Run on the Xbox. We all know the xbox exceeds the min specs. What do you think Betaluva has been working on? Dosbox? THe goal of this project is to run Win 98 natively. Just look at the title of this thread. "Getting it Running Efficiently" This can't be referring to WinXPE, because, use logic, it hasn't been ported yet, and we would not have that running efficiently, Win98 is where our problems lie.
Post by: turrican8888 on February 07, 2005, 09:08:00 PM
That thing removes the fat and boots a custom windows graphic shell(explorer would give you 8=====D, because of read-only FS of the CD)
I don't remember what can be run under it though.
Now vmware allows to mount an iso as a CD-ROM ...
I'll try this thing when I have a keyboard connected to the box
About bochs:
WTF? ROTFL! OMG, FFS, STFU
If you want a x86 emulator that doesn't suck, try http://www.qemu.org
It's kinda, errm... SIXTY FIVE TIMES FASTER than bochs. That may mean a Pentium Pro 200 instead of a i386 16MHz
You can only run it under XBOX Linux though. It can run DOS, WINDOWS, Linux, Darwin, BSD, BeOS, whatever you throw at it.
I'm been thinking about compiling a small gentoox linux kernel and a ramdisk, cutting all the fat, just to boot this beauty. With a linux kernel patch provided on that website it runs even faster.
Post by: thecrazy on February 08, 2005, 05:16:00 AM
Im still not clear about one thing though
.... and b4 anyone says READ THE THREAD!I want to say that i have been following it from the start so...
What is our goal exactly and why?
Were trying to run windows applicaiton on a xbox or are we trying to make windows 98 run on a xbox?
There is a BIG difference.
As far as i know everyone wants window on their xbox to run windows compatible software, emulators etc....
Now... I know this was discussed b4 but Arent we blinding ourself here from the real goal ? I mean, i dont think putting a toothpick on the moon just for saying you did is really worth all the effort. All you want is a freaking toothpick. Ya know what i mean?
Its like going from point a to point b pasing through the whole alphabet first.
Im all for getting win98 running on the xbox but will it give us anything more than xpe? thats what i want to know. Will it be faster? Will it run better? or are we just doing this for pride?!
Please give me a straight answer and no flaming about xpe or not xpe. Its a simple question and im sure im not the only one asking it.
Have a good day!
this guy had one to many --->
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on February 08, 2005, 11:42:00 AM
Scan-c is gone for good i think.
XPe is much better and a reasonable thing to run, win98 is just slow and shit on xbox. If you are wondering "I cant afford a winxpe license!" There is a FREE beta copy that you could run legally.
-BxN
Post by: a94060 on February 08, 2005, 12:24:00 PM
i was reading on this site http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~ranma1/mac_install.html and it was telling how to install mac os on the xbox. How about some one makes a i386,x86 emulator so that we could install windows like the way that it was done there. Does this sound like an idea?
Post by: Shadow7789 on February 08, 2005, 07:09:00 PM
Post by: betaluva on February 08, 2005, 07:18:00 PM
Post by: turrican8888 on February 09, 2005, 12:49:00 AM
QUOTE(turrican8888 @ Feb 8 2005, 03:14 AM)
About bochs:
WTF? ROTFL! OMG, FFS, STFU
If you want a x86 emulator that doesn't suck, try http://www.qemu.org
It's kinda, errm... SIXTY FIVE TIMES FASTER than bochs. That may mean a Pentium Pro 200 instead of a i386 16MHz
You can only run it under XBOX Linux though. It can run DOS, WINDOWS, Linux, Darwin, BSD, BeOS, whatever you throw at it.
I'm been thinking about compiling a small gentoox linux kernel and a ramdisk, cutting all the fat, just to boot this beauty. With a linux kernel patch provided on that website it runs even faster.
WTF? ROTFL! OMG, FFS, STFU
If you want a x86 emulator that doesn't suck, try http://www.qemu.org
It's kinda, errm... SIXTY FIVE TIMES FASTER than bochs. That may mean a Pentium Pro 200 instead of a i386 16MHz
You can only run it under XBOX Linux though. It can run DOS, WINDOWS, Linux, Darwin, BSD, BeOS, whatever you throw at it.
I'm been thinking about compiling a small gentoox linux kernel and a ramdisk, cutting all the fat, just to boot this beauty. With a linux kernel patch provided on that website it runs even faster.
I'm working on this and I have already an half-assed patched xromwell binary that allows a faster boot ( bypasses the DVD initalization and menu and reduces some delays inside the code. There are some other hacks that I dont remember now)
Next is the kernel and a customized initrd.gz.
I'm thinking about f:\qemu (or e:\qemu) containing the patched xromwell.xbe, the vmlinuz initrd.gz,linuxboot.cfg the qemu binaries and HD images, from which qemu would boot. Xromwell loads linuxboot.cfg from the current directory.
The kernel only has the essential stuff: sound, video, fatx, usb, framebuffer. Network is a module, as are some other stuff inside initrd. That thing would call then busybox, mount drive e and f, add /mnt/fatx/f/qemu to PATH, and run a customizable script on f:\qemu, that would contain a call to the emulator with the command line.
The OS images can confortably generated on a PC and then ftp'ed to the box.
This thing can be generic for any program. A customized linux booting just what a guy wants, without the fat, avoids the (No Download/Built with XDK) crap that I'm tired of seeing, and avoids porting nightmares.
I wonder if Quake3Arena runs on the box under XWindows
Is OpenGL accelerated in Xbox-Linux ? I wrote this in less than 3 minutes at 6am, so it may all sound like crap, but I'll post here if I make some progress. Don't hold your breath though
Post by: total_ass on February 09, 2005, 10:22:00 AM
i have been wanting to run half-life in cedega under linux, but these damn distributions are 2-4 gigs in size.
a stripped down linux is just what i could use.
Post by: Shadow7789 on February 09, 2005, 06:56:00 PM
Post by: LESTAT on February 10, 2005, 07:16:00 AM
thats a nice idea. but keep in mind 90% of the xbox owners only have 64 megs of ram, but others like myself have the 128meg box. Windows may run, although sluggishly from the 64 megs of ram but will run faster with the 128megs.
But the real kicker and those thinking that games are gunna run need to listen up.
Its just not gunna happen people. be realistic!. Think of windows 98 on a machine with 64 megs of ram... it runs like crap and you cant run anything but ancient old old games. People with the 128 meg mod would be able to run the emulator with windows 98 at a fairly good speed but again running games would be nearly impossible.
I dont see where you guys think that your gunna run games on the xbox when it only has 64 megs of ram. Its just not gunna happen.
Go run Quake 3 arena on ANY machine with 64 megs of ram.. guess what.. its not gunna happen. Next try that on the xbox where there is only 64 megs of Video ram AND System ram TOTAL.
to create a stripped linux so you can run windows in an emu is a fine idea but realise that linux already runs like snot with 64 megs of ram. so your basically back to square one with a stripped version running an emu running windows. infact, your worse off simple cuz there isnt enough ram. even the 128 megs would probably run horribly slow.
The only games that will ever run will be old small games. nothing within the last 5 years will run at a playable speed.
that being said.
What about creating a stripped down linux without all the crap that gentoox has,, just sound video networking, file browser, web browser and thats about it. I was surprised when i first installed GentooX to see that it had all the worthless crap installed. why ? its not needed its not used and we should be given the choice of installing it or not.
or
why make it all be contained in one image, that was a nice idea but reality shows that when you cram it into 1 location like that it runs horribly slow. make images that are mountable, a usr folder a root folder and a few others instead of one chunck file that linux has to dig thru to make stuff run.
I dont know,, if you can get linux to run at least windows 98 at a good speed with a 128 meg box then we are one step closer, but still we are avoiding the entire goal here. Making the xbox run windows all on its own. no emulators or anything.
Post by: a94060 on February 10, 2005, 08:34:00 AM
http://wbox.conforums3.com/
thats the forum. pm me if u want the name and pass for editing it.
Post by: betaluva on February 10, 2005, 05:27:00 PM
Post by: Shadow7789 on February 10, 2005, 05:48:00 PM
This thread is officially closed.
Shadow7789...Over and Out.
(I always wanted to say that)
Post by: a94060 on February 10, 2005, 05:22:00 PM
Post by: Xbox2005 on February 10, 2005, 11:27:00 PM
Post by: turrican8888 on February 11, 2005, 03:50:00 AM
QUOTE(LESTAT @ Feb 10 2005, 01:22 PM)
turrican
thats a nice idea. but keep in mind 90% of the xbox owners only have 64 megs of ram, but others like myself have the 128meg box...
thats a nice idea. but keep in mind 90% of the xbox owners only have 64 megs of ram, but others like myself have the 128meg box...
Please take a look at my reply here:
http://wbox.conforum...&num=1108089452
Post by: LESTAT on February 11, 2005, 07:48:00 AM
QUOTE(Xbox2005 @ Feb 11 2005, 12:33 AM)
Windows 98 runs fine on my celeron 500 mhz pc with 64mb ram and 4mb video.Its enough for web surfing and games like age of empires 2.So 64mb is quite sufficient.
you dont run age of empire 2 with 4 megs of video and 64 megs of ram and make the game run very good. nah it runs like crap i bet. thats just a guess.
you have to think with your brains gentlemen.
64 megs of ram... ok take 10-20megs if not more for the linux kernel and the emulator..... then add in another 16-24 megs or realistically more ram that windows is going to require for its self.... then try to run a game... guess what,, your all out of ram gentlemen then game more than likely isnt going to run.
then you have to find a game that will actually see the xbox gforce 3 video chipset and know what it is... what games will look at the video chip and know what it is ? none,, they will either accept it or say you cant run it cuz you dont have a compliant video card.
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on February 11, 2005, 01:13:00 PM
If you want some REAL phpbb boards try thiis
http://www.celtix.net/
^ Great boards, ive got some spare ones setup but that will be alot faster to use
Im a good admin for them, so if you need any help just ask
-BxN
Post by: LESTAT on February 12, 2005, 11:10:00 AM
QUOTE(Xbox2005 @ Feb 12 2005, 01:24 AM)
Nah!
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: djdafreund on February 12, 2005, 05:25:00 PM
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I justed wanted to mention that games is not the only reason we're trying to get windows running on xbox. I'm mentioning this because of some slight (seen as) sarcasm coming back and forth because of games not running on. (IE-decent runs fine on mine, but i'm not a pc gamer myself) I'm just surprised at so much negativity coming from certain users. What's the big deal? Your doing no good being here but bringing down the ones that are hyped up to try and get it working.
Don't you remember people saying "Xbox won't run anything but xbox software." Look what it's doing now? Let's all be positive here. If you don't believe in things, let it be and please keep your opinions to your self. If after trying, it's not working out, fine, all good. But don't say it's not possible because of theoretical BS.
This forum is to get things moving, NOTHING ELSE. So, please keep your negative opinions to yourself. (You know who you are). Not trying to be a dick here, just very positive, and don't believe in "Can't", and just don't see the point in it with ANY negative (unless facts from trial and error) feedback. The topic discussion is "Getting it Running Efficiently", NOT "Is this possible?/Can it happen".
I hope you see things the same way. Thank you for listening.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: The Zep Man on February 24, 2005, 08:43:00 AM
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This really gives a feeling that .tk-sites are most of the time 'worthless'. You need Firefox to watch them (or be prepared for the pop-ups/spyware) and most of the time, there is nothing interesting to find. Remembers me of .cjb.net.
Not intented as a flame, though.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Enthrall on March 01, 2005, 09:16:00 PM
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ok guys dont get your hopes up so soon, yes this is random im the new person to post so here it goes. Xbox 2 i heard will have a 256mb's of ram if you want me too i cant get alot more specs all the way down to processor which will have about four yes its unbelievable but iv seen the graphics and its like doom3 or half-life 2. so just approve me if you want more specs.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: The Zep Man on March 02, 2005, 02:27:00 AM
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Post by: djdafreund on February 12, 2005, 05:25:00 PM
Don't you remember people saying "Xbox won't run anything but xbox software." Look what it's doing now? Let's all be positive here. If you don't believe in things, let it be and please keep your opinions to your self. If after trying, it's not working out, fine, all good. But don't say it's not possible because of theoretical BS.
This forum is to get things moving, NOTHING ELSE. So, please keep your negative opinions to yourself. (You know who you are). Not trying to be a dick here, just very positive, and don't believe in "Can't", and just don't see the point in it with ANY negative (unless facts from trial and error) feedback. The topic discussion is "Getting it Running Efficiently", NOT "Is this possible?/Can it happen".
I hope you see things the same way. Thank you for listening.
Post by: The Zep Man on February 24, 2005, 08:43:00 AM
Not intented as a flame, though.
Post by: Enthrall on March 01, 2005, 09:16:00 PM
i heard will have a 256mb's of ram if you want me too i cant get alot more specs all the way down to processor which will have about four yes its unbelievable but iv seen the graphics and its like doom3 or half-life 2. so just approve me if you want more specs.
Post by: The Zep Man on March 02, 2005, 02:27:00 AM
QUOTE(Enthrall @ Mar 2 2005, 04:22 AM)
ok guys dont get your hopes up so soon, yes this is random im the new person to post so here it goes. Xbox 2 i heard will have a 256mb's of ram if you want me too i cant get alot more specs all the way down to processor which will have about four yes its unbelievable but iv seen the graphics and its like doom3 or half-life 2. so just approve me if you want more specs.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on March 24, 2005, 01:46:00 PM
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first i have to say sorry for being away that long. there were some problems that really took time to get over...
another thing is i lost all my code (which wasn't to much )
can anyone tell me the status of this project? things that have been decided, discoverys made?
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on March 27, 2005, 07:15:00 PM
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SCAN C IS ALLIVVVEEEE!
Well..
We thought of getting winxpe run on xbox since it doesnt give a SHIT what it rusn on (16 meg flash chips , need i say more?)
Problem is the boot loader only which we need a coder to right.
My suggestion to you Scan-C is to go through the WHOLE 18 something pages of the thread and refresh your head and see whats currently going on.
-BxN
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: LESTAT on March 31, 2005, 04:30:00 PM
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i heard will have a 256mb's of ram if you want me too i cant get alot more specs all the way down to processor which will have about four yes its unbelievable but iv seen the graphics and its like doom3 or half-life 2. so just approve me if you want more specs.Post by: Scan-C on March 24, 2005, 01:46:00 PM
another thing is i lost all my code (which wasn't to much
)can anyone tell me the status of this project? things that have been decided, discoverys made?
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on March 27, 2005, 07:15:00 PM
Well..
We thought of getting winxpe run on xbox since it doesnt give a SHIT what it rusn on (16 meg flash chips , need i say more?)
Problem is the boot loader only which we need a coder to right.
My suggestion to you Scan-C is to go through the WHOLE 18 something pages of the thread and refresh your head and see whats currently going on.
-BxN
Post by: LESTAT on March 31, 2005, 04:30:00 PM
QUOTE(big_xbox_n00bie @ Mar 27 2005, 08:21 PM)
SCAN C IS ALLIVVVEEEE!
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on April 03, 2005, 09:23:00 AM
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i guess i have to read everything then
about the driver coding... i don't know anything about that. maybe you can help out lestat?
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: LESTAT on April 03, 2005, 10:01:00 AM
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scan -
wish i was a programmer but im not, im jsut a hardware guy. one of my good friends back in my home town is a genious programmer and uses XP Embedded everyday at work to program the products they sell.
But since the company has deemed him IT Dept manager and Programming Dept. Manager he has very little time. And ive asked several times for his help.
he now has an xbox, so ill have to bug him again and see if he can get in the mood to help out.
as for the drivers. i use to have the Win32 drivers for xbox video and audio. but i dont anymore, all i ever say was people wanting linux so i didnt ever think we would be trying windows otherwise i would have kept them.
but its all nvidia, so,,,, thats a HUGE leap in the right direction.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on April 03, 2005, 01:37:00 PM
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Post by: Scan-C on April 03, 2005, 09:23:00 AM
about the driver coding... i don't know anything about that. maybe you can help out lestat?
Post by: LESTAT on April 03, 2005, 10:01:00 AM
wish i was a programmer but im not, im jsut a hardware guy. one of my good friends back in my home town is a genious programmer and uses XP Embedded everyday at work to program the products they sell.
But since the company has deemed him IT Dept manager and Programming Dept. Manager he has very little time. And ive asked several times for his help.
he now has an xbox, so ill have to bug him again and see if he can get in the mood to help out.
as for the drivers. i use to have the Win32 drivers for xbox video and audio. but i dont anymore, all i ever say was people wanting linux so i didnt ever think we would be trying windows otherwise i would have kept them.
but its all nvidia, so,,,, thats a HUGE leap in the right direction.
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on April 03, 2005, 01:37:00 PM
QUOTE(LESTAT @ Mar 31 2005, 11:36 PM)
***BIG OL SIGH***
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: LESTAT on April 03, 2005, 09:20:00 PM
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take that
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on April 04, 2005, 09:38:00 PM
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-BxN
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: rossmac on April 05, 2005, 09:12:00 AM
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umm BxN - are you back with UIX or sumthin - cos ur sig seems like it....
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: a94060 on April 16, 2005, 06:30:00 AM
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it may jus be me not reading but,has the project gone any farther than the last time i posted,i hav been reading here and i jus see fiting (like it was aobut the windows version)
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Enixile on April 20, 2005, 03:46:00 PM
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I guess the name for this project was already decided but I always wanted to see a "Windows XB" (WXB for short). Eh... I thought I'd say something.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Cortrall on April 30, 2005, 05:22:00 AM
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Cortrall
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: netdroid9 on May 03, 2005, 04:54:00 AM
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Post by: LESTAT on April 03, 2005, 09:20:00 PM
take that
Post by: big_xbox_n00bie on April 04, 2005, 09:38:00 PM
-BxN
Post by: rossmac on April 05, 2005, 09:12:00 AM
Post by: a94060 on April 16, 2005, 06:30:00 AM
Post by: Enixile on April 20, 2005, 03:46:00 PM
Post by: Cortrall on April 30, 2005, 05:22:00 AM
Cortrall
Post by: netdroid9 on May 03, 2005, 04:54:00 AM
QUOTE(LESTAT @ Feb 13 2005, 03:16 AM)
nothing is gunna run on the xbox unless you have the 128meg board.-
Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: msjf on May 08, 2005, 02:16:00 PM
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.:BONES:.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Slipknot01 on May 11, 2005, 07:19:00 PM
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will this be possible to use without a gamepad & just a controller?
-Slipknot01
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: netdroid9 on May 12, 2005, 04:19:00 AM
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I wonder it is about the ram and PCI checks that crash the Xbox..?
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: netdroid9 on May 12, 2005, 05:18:00 AM
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I can't find edit on my original post so...
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: netdroid9 on May 12, 2005, 06:25:00 AM
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Oh edit button, where areth thou?!?!?!
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: chimpanzee on May 14, 2005, 04:30:00 AM
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For those who are so fond of XPE, you do know that there would be some licensing requirement that will never make it possible on Xbox, don't you ? Either MS would simply deny you from distributing it or the royalty would be too high for 'amateurs' I saw here ;-)
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Shadow7789 on May 16, 2005, 07:19:00 AM
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I am really sick of waiting. Xbox 360 is comming out this year. You guys should just do whatever will be ready the soonest.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: tfgbd on May 20, 2005, 12:19:00 AM
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If there were legal issues in relation to distributing the full XP Embedded OS, the author could always just distribute the Target Designer project file and simply include download and build instructions to make it easier for end users to set up. It shouldn't take anymore than a few minutes to generate the OS image build and has the added benefit of letting the end user add some optional components they may wish to use....
XPe should also work fine in an emulator like QEMU if you want to try, though its just not the same...
Oh, and Pocket PCs are built on "Windows CE", not XP.
Also, there is no such thing as "Windows CE Embedded." Its always embedded anyway because its designed as an Embedded OS.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: chimpanzee on May 23, 2005, 10:26:00 PM
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Post by: msjf on May 08, 2005, 02:16:00 PM
.:BONES:.
Post by: Slipknot01 on May 11, 2005, 07:19:00 PM
-Slipknot01
Post by: netdroid9 on May 12, 2005, 04:19:00 AM
Post by: netdroid9 on May 12, 2005, 05:18:00 AM
Post by: netdroid9 on May 12, 2005, 06:25:00 AM
Post by: chimpanzee on May 14, 2005, 04:30:00 AM
Post by: Shadow7789 on May 16, 2005, 07:19:00 AM
Post by: tfgbd on May 20, 2005, 12:19:00 AM
XPe should also work fine in an emulator like QEMU if you want to try, though its just not the same...
Oh, and Pocket PCs are built on "Windows CE", not XP.
Also, there is no such thing as "Windows CE Embedded." Its always embedded anyway because its designed as an Embedded OS.
Post by: chimpanzee on May 23, 2005, 10:26:00 PM
QUOTE(tfgbd @ May 20 2005, 08:30 AM)
If there were legal issues in relation to distributing the full XP Embedded OS, the author could always just distribute the Target Designer project file and simply include download and build instructions to make it easier for end users to set up. It shouldn't take anymore than a few minutes to generate the OS image build and has the added benefit of letting the end user add some optional components they may wish to use....
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Slipknot01 on May 24, 2005, 04:09:00 PM
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Post by: Slipknot01 on May 24, 2005, 04:09:00 PM
QUOTE(Slipknot01 @ May 11 2005, 10:30 PM)
will this be possible to use without a gamepad & just a controller?
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: chimpanzee on May 25, 2005, 12:56:00 AM
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Post by: chimpanzee on May 25, 2005, 12:56:00 AM
QUOTE(netdroid9 @ May 24 2005, 02:24 PM)
Of course, there is the matter of the 120 day TIMEBOMB, chimpanzee.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Slipknot01 on May 25, 2005, 02:24:00 PM
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usual placeq?
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: _Sorcerer_ on August 28, 2005, 06:00:00 AM
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Hey!
I thought that I can help you out with coding, if needed. So if you are trying port Windows XP for XBox I am in. But only for make a chalange, because I think linux is better on XBox than WinXP, although XBox kernel is someting like Windows 2000 kernel, so there is posibilities that that one is going to work.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: the_devil73 on August 28, 2005, 11:00:00 AM
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no one is in this forum anymore man, its been dead for a while. I lay flowers on it grave every once in a while, but no one is here nemore. Better look at mac osx for the xbox 360
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Cio on October 05, 2005, 02:07:00 PM
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It's not dead jet.. just in a coma. Once all hope is lost, the plug will be pulled. Untill then, there's qemu.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: The_Chemist187 on January 11, 2006, 11:19:00 PM
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Im confused.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: edude03 on January 25, 2006, 03:39:00 PM
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Hmmm... some one will probably beat me up for this, but has anyone seen www.linuxbios.org ? the is a section on that site about running other operation systems after linux boots.... something about using a glue layer called ADLO (iirc) maybe we can borrow ::steal:: some of there code :-P
Ok i'll go get my casket ready
Michael
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: nt authority on February 23, 2006, 02:02:00 AM
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WINDOWS SOURCE CODE FOR BOTH NT4 AND WIN2K BUILDS WERE LEAKED.
Considering the massive knowledge base and amount of applications and hardware devices created to exploit the xbox system this source code can most definitley be used to create a full version of windows for the xbox that can be installed in a native, proper, and full fashion that is truly complete.
Has anyone considered these methods, resources, concepts ???
(1) Build a full Xbox Native Windows from the ground up: Using leaked Windows 2000 Source Code with the missing "non-leaked" components substituted with the relative parts from
(A) leaked Windows NT4 {this has boot code and kernel initialization code in \nt\private\ntos\private\boot\ and \nt\private\ntos\init\ which would allow for the construction of an XBOX specific NTLDR/OSLOADER.EXE and/or NTOSKRNL.EXE
( REACTOS source code: the REACTOS avenue appears great as it already has a Hardware Abstraction Layer with custom code for the XBOX.
(2) Windows CE.NET source code, samples, and binary image building - Dependent on the CE .NET framework to a large extent it nevertheless provides an execellent resource especially when it comes to the construction of pre-kernel (and as such pre WinCE) executions such as those that occur in the hardware enumerating OEM ADAPTION LAYER during boot: a DEFAULT.XBE boot loader has already been constructed for the XBOX and a WinCE NK.NB0 image has been released. Modification to WinCE source code, specifically to the XBOX WinCE image mentioned above (that already works) could lead us somewhere.
By injecting leaked NT/WIN2K code, BIOS/x86 Emulation code such as Bochs, and possibly code from the EFI firmware interface released from INTEL, one could create a glorified superBIOS: This would be a WinCE OS perhaps residing on a LPC module like normal modchips and would allow execution of a normal PC windows setup program (unmodified). This is quite a complex idea but essentially works by creating an intermediate layer between the XBOX and Windows and thus makes Windows think it is installing itself on a PC instead of an XBOX.
(3) Create a BIOS PE FILE to replace XBOXKRNL.EXE then package it up under CABinet protocol and insert it back into the BIOS BOOT ROM so that it is unpacked upon POST.
Obviously we would rebuild NTOSKRNL.EXE using leaked code, rename it as XBOXKRNL.EXE, reseal it with appropriate cryptography and compression and then flash it into the region where the XBOX exepcts such to be.
This would then expect a HAL and Device Drivers as well as a Session Manager Sub-System and further programs at least up to the Winlogon.exe point where a system boot officially comes to an end.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Spartan-048 on April 04, 2006, 05:00:00 PM
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You know, this bring me back to a thread I made... ( http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=502787 ). If this could work, I'd definetly use it on the project were working on. Good luck to you guys . Hmm... I'd also have to run to and fro on the wikipedia to really get into what you guys are talking about
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: ferjero989 on April 26, 2006, 11:29:00 PM
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mmm... i've reading this from the very begining.. and.. well.. i would like to say some things
1- the challenge was to run a windows on the xbox. selected ONE win98... i agree
2- some ppl tried to talk about wince and winxpe.. ok.. its easier BUT THATS NOT THE F** THREAD ABOUT
i vote to use win98 se. i tried all windows versions in my pc already... with a huge hard drive and up to 5 boots (win95, win98se, winme, win2k and winxp) so.. i can say i was running all at once..
was a pentium 550 slot 1, with 448 megs, 16 megs nvidia riva tnt and a sound blaster live. everything was fine.. BUT... winME sucks BIG TIME.... win2k... takes WAY TO MORE to load up. winXP is ok.. win98SE was amazing (just dont load up ie6.2). win95.. well.. kinda limited...
i vote to continue the proyect with the win98se... and those assholes talking about using winxpe and all that... shut up and open a new thread about running winxpe in the xbox...
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: torne on April 27, 2006, 05:19:00 AM
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In case you'd missed the actual point of the discussion - running any version of Windows (other than CE, which is not the same OS but merely shares a name and the general API design) on the Xbox without using emulation will require some tricky binary patching that is well outside the capability of almost everyone who is interested. Getting 98 to run would likely be *more* difficult than getting 2000/XP to run, because consumer Windows has a much less well designed kernel with a poorer hardware abstraction - it would likely need to be modified quite significantly. Getting an NT-based Windows to run would likely only require boot-time modifications as the hardware abstraction layer is far more complete.
Either way the chances of anyone actually doing it are pretty tiny. It's extremely hard to do without the source code, and those who have the source legitimately are not allowed to tell (Shared Source licencing for Windows requires a non-disclosure agreement, which is my position).
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: thepureamrit on November 21, 2006, 06:08:00 PM
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Ahhh,
Allow me to introduce my self. I am The Pure Amrit. When I first read this topic, I knew this was right for me. I am a Windows Geek. I have been reading this article since the begining. The thought of running Windows PE on an XBOX is not bad. I do not know if someone had suguested Bart PE, but it can work. In Bart PE, you can create plugins for Windows XP (OR 2003) and modify the whole OS. In my (worthless) ammount of experiance, I believe that Windows 2003, and Windows CE will be the bet choice for the XBOX. Shure, it is possiable that you can make drivers for the XBOX. The Dashboard (and the rest of the xbox software) is only a modified version of the Windows 2000 Kernel (and Direct X). If That Helps Out At All, I Would Like To Know.
thanks
~The Pure Amrit
P.S.
If The XBOX is only Windows 2000, There is still hope for Windows XP... (
,Hint Hint)
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: torne on November 22, 2006, 04:28:00 AM
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In Bart PE, you can create plugins for Windows XP (OR 2003) and modify the whole OS.
Those are just convenient ways to include/exclude particular files, they don't patch OS files.
The Dashboard (and the rest of the xbox software) is only a modified version of the Windows 2000 Kernel (and Direct X). If That Helps Out At All, I Would Like To Know.
Nope. The Xbox kernel is not in any way useful to run Windows - it's not compatible in any way with the NT kernels, even though it's derived from them (the most fundamental issue: NT syscalls take wide Unicode strings, Xbox syscalls take ASCII, so all string-based APIs are immediately incompatible).
Running Windows on the Xbox would have to work the same way as Linux - a loader replaces the existing kernel with something else.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: nathan24 on January 27, 2007, 03:36:00 PM
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i am trying to get into windows 98 through xdsl but when i click on aterminal the windows 98 bootscreen comes up then a blackscreen with sum writing come up tahat says cd-rom device driver for ide(fourchannels supported.)Copyright oak technology inc.1993-1996.Driver version:V340. Device name:Tomato.Transfer Mode:Programmed 1/0.Drve0: Port=170.(secondary channel).Master IRQ=15.Firmware version :0.6
Ex version 2.25. Copyright © Microsoft Corp.1986-1995.All right reserved.Drive 6 Driver TOMATO unit 0.
i installed xdsl by ftp if that helps.
Thanks
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: jake09071990 on March 17, 2007, 12:27:00 PM
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Ok well i only read the first post and had an i dea pop into my head. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pop.gif) Well we can make windows not make the check by using nlite to modify the instalation disk. i have done this at least 10 times before and it can take out almost all of the minimum system requirements that are on the install disk.
Just thought this would help alot.
This is to modify windows XP only.
This post has been edited by jake09071990: Mar 17 2007, 07:28 PM
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on April 24, 2007, 02:59:00 PM
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Oh WOW! This thread is still alive and a sticky? O_O I was away a long time I know and I got a lot of PM's asking for the source...
I didn't read everything til my last post but I'm sorry to say the source and binarys are lost. I got into some situation which stopped me from working on the code and visit these forums...
Well, I think Windows on the XBOX is still something we should try to archive and I would really like to get a project starting but this isn't as easy as using nlite. It needs patching of binary files and rewriting alot of Win32-Functions used at boottime.
I will need some time to get into all this again. I just tried to replace my Dashboard and, believe it or not, I couldn't remember how to name the xbe.
If someone knowing assembler wants to help, look over the files ntldr and kernel32.dll and try to understand it's basic inner workings. That's where patches need to be applied.
I'll be off know but I'm happy to be here again. The community seems to be as polite and friendly as ever.
Cya
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: PunMaster on May 06, 2007, 05:37:00 PM
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Hey. I've been looking at all the forums about running Windows natively on the Xbox and have become very interested. I have a ton of questions but would love to help if I can! First of all, it seems as if the latest piece of working code, the CE .NET thing, is quite old but looks very promising. What the heck happened to that? How could a project that cool just die? Am I missing something? Secondly, What's the current focus? I've heard of a lot of different ways people are trying to get various versions of Windows running on the Xbox. Which ideas are still being actively perused? Lastly, what do I need to do to get involved? I am good with assembly, C++, and C# .NET. I also know a lot about windows and the Xbox hardware. I would love to be a part of this, but as of now I am pretty confused about where the Xbox Windows endeavor is going. Thanks!
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: hellknight on March 10, 2008, 11:19:00 AM
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It going no where sadly and I doubt with the 360 out that it will go any further then its death I hate saying it but this community and completely died since 360 came out and modding 360's isn't even that great and offers us nothing at the moment in the way of homebrew or anything like that so I really don't see or understand why 360 is slowly killing the xbox scene
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: torne on March 10, 2008, 01:15:00 PM
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It going no where sadly and I doubt with the 360 out that it will go any further then its death I hate saying it but this community and completely died since 360 came out and modding 360's isn't even that great and offers us nothing at the moment in the way of homebrew or anything like that so I really don't see or understand why 360 is slowly killing the xbox scene
The post you're replying to is over a year old, you know
The 360 isn't responsible for the idea of running Windows on the Xbox dying - it died because if you're happy running it under a virtualizer then it works, and there are pretty detailed instructions on how to do it - and if you want to run it natively it requires huge amounts of very difficult effort (as I detailed for a number of people for quite a while).
Quite simply there's nothing to do
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: torne on March 12, 2008, 05:45:00 AM
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There hasn't been any progress running windows natively on the xbox *ever*. Nobody has done anything at all.
It's too hard for too little reward.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: darkhanzou26 on March 13, 2008, 06:28:00 PM
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Just a suggestion? (I don't know nearly enough about programming as I should) but I know that out there on the net is a CD called 'XP Live' (which is used on the computer to boot to an alternative on-CD OS for repairs) which has a windows/linux kernel that may do the trick for testing and programming. Just a suggestion (not looking to get flamed)
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: torne on March 14, 2008, 05:23:00 AM
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Running XP from a livecd is nothing to do with linux, just requires some PE magic (google BartPE and similar). Doesn't help tackle the fact that there's no NT bootloader that will work on the xbox, and that NT will crash when it looks around the xbox's PCI bus.
Sorry
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: grimdoomer on March 19, 2009, 07:16:00 PM
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Is this project still alive?
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: torne on March 20, 2009, 06:37:00 AM
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What project? Nobody with a clue what they're doing ever started anything. There is no project
If you poke through this thread and the rest of this forum looking for my posts you'll find my debunking of why various ideas are dumb, and an explanation of what would actually be required to make Windows run natively. It's a gargantuan amount of effort. Nobody with the required skills cares that much.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: grimdoomer on March 20, 2009, 02:03:00 PM
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Well it gave me an idea that I'm working on. Instead of port a OS that we don't have source for, and that would have countless issues, why not make a new OS for the xbox? The xbox already has APIs for mice and keyboards as well as anything else we would want. Well I decided to do something like this. I call it Carbon. So far I have support for mice and I'm working on creating windows that are dragable. I know it wont run anything from windows, but if we could get it to launch games, apps etc in the windows, it would be really neat. Even a desktop like system that you can launch apps and games from would be cool.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Nextelhalo on May 07, 2009, 12:25:00 PM
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Man that would be cool as hell. I'll fully support you on this, i know nothing about creating this but anything i can do to help i will. I would love to see something like this created.
Man that would be cool as hell. I'll fully support you on this, i know nothing about creating this but anything i can do to help i will. I would love to see something like this created.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: hellknight on August 12, 2009, 10:41:00 PM
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Hey any progress on that OS you were working on, I really think it would be cool but as far as I know the xbox can only run one kernal so would it even be possible to run a game or app in a window?
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: osmorphyus on August 21, 2009, 05:10:00 PM
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on this carbon thing... could you run WINE from it?
i know that might make you think of 'just another linux port', but wine is pretty good on different platforms at running windows based software.
ultimately your going to have to enable the NIC. sounds cool tho. toss some screenshots sometime of your work.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: WindowsOCManage on October 13, 2009, 07:01:00 AM
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"There's no source code for Windows. It has to not address some areas of the ram because this locks up the Xbox, and it has to not scan the pci bus otherwise, lockup. These are the major problems with Windows. Another thing are the drivers, there are none. The people who have Windows running use it through Bochs or Linux with VMWare. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it will be hard and without source code you will need a way to readdress the ramparts and stop the pci buxs scan. It's exactly the part where I am with my FreeDOS port. I'm just lacking the programming skills, but I'm learning right now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) at least FreeDOS is open source so I can rewrite it. A bios would be pretty complicated, but maybe load a program into memory that does this [forces the checks to pass] before the actual Windows bootloader kicks in. What I mean is some kind of a layer between hardware and Windows. I'm not experienced enough to write such code, but I think it should be possible." ~ Scan-C
Exactly what memory region should we not access?
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: torne on October 13, 2009, 10:17:00 AM
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Read the xbox-linux patches.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: BuraddoX on February 18, 2011, 05:25:00 PM
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You's need to still work on this it sounds like a awesome idea
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: tomegtt on July 30, 2011, 04:10:00 AM
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HELP HELP HELP!!!!!!!!!!!I'm sorry my Office 2007 can't open files and the office 2010 too,I don't know what happend to my computers,and all the datas in files can't open it, the information about coach handbags,quad,motorcyle,guitar,the price the quantity,all messed up.
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: luther349 on August 16, 2011, 05:17:00 PM
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yea xbox has its os that's linux but nobody has worked on it in years. so its so out of date its sad. i wish the guys that did the linux work would come back for a bit update all your drivers fatx etc for kernel 3 etc. the old ass version of wine xbox linux runs is suck and fail compared to the new versions that will run abought anything.
This post has been edited by luther349: Aug 17 2011, 12:18 AM
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: edwardrich01 on September 19, 2011, 11:56:00 PM
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where can i get this windows software..
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Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: jaroc on October 24, 2011, 11:50:00 PM
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HELP HELP HELP!!!!!!!!!!!I'm sorry my Office 2007 can't open files and the office 2010 too,I don't know what happend to my computers,and all the datas in files can't open it, the information about coach handbags,quad,motorcyle,guitar,the price the quantity,all messed up.
Put the pipe down
Post by: Slipknot01 on May 25, 2005, 02:24:00 PM
Post by: _Sorcerer_ on August 28, 2005, 06:00:00 AM
I thought that I can help you out with coding, if needed. So if you are trying port Windows XP for XBox I am in. But only for make a chalange, because I think linux is better on XBox than WinXP, although XBox kernel is someting like Windows 2000 kernel, so there is posibilities that that one is going to work.
Post by: the_devil73 on August 28, 2005, 11:00:00 AM
Post by: Cio on October 05, 2005, 02:07:00 PM
Post by: The_Chemist187 on January 11, 2006, 11:19:00 PM
Post by: edude03 on January 25, 2006, 03:39:00 PM
Ok i'll go get my casket ready
Michael
Post by: nt authority on February 23, 2006, 02:02:00 AM
Considering the massive knowledge base and amount of applications and hardware devices created to exploit the xbox system this source code can most definitley be used to create a full version of windows for the xbox that can be installed in a native, proper, and full fashion that is truly complete.
Has anyone considered these methods, resources, concepts ???
(1) Build a full Xbox Native Windows from the ground up: Using leaked Windows 2000 Source Code with the missing "non-leaked" components substituted with the relative parts from
(A) leaked Windows NT4 {this has boot code and kernel initialization code in \nt\private\ntos\private\boot\ and \nt\private\ntos\init\ which would allow for the construction of an XBOX specific NTLDR/OSLOADER.EXE and/or NTOSKRNL.EXE
( REACTOS source code: the REACTOS avenue appears great as it already has a Hardware Abstraction Layer with custom code for the XBOX.
(2) Windows CE.NET source code, samples, and binary image building - Dependent on the CE .NET framework to a large extent it nevertheless provides an execellent resource especially when it comes to the construction of pre-kernel (and as such pre WinCE) executions such as those that occur in the hardware enumerating OEM ADAPTION LAYER during boot: a DEFAULT.XBE boot loader has already been constructed for the XBOX and a WinCE NK.NB0 image has been released. Modification to WinCE source code, specifically to the XBOX WinCE image mentioned above (that already works) could lead us somewhere.
By injecting leaked NT/WIN2K code, BIOS/x86 Emulation code such as Bochs, and possibly code from the EFI firmware interface released from INTEL, one could create a glorified superBIOS: This would be a WinCE OS perhaps residing on a LPC module like normal modchips and would allow execution of a normal PC windows setup program (unmodified). This is quite a complex idea but essentially works by creating an intermediate layer between the XBOX and Windows and thus makes Windows think it is installing itself on a PC instead of an XBOX.
(3) Create a BIOS PE FILE to replace XBOXKRNL.EXE then package it up under CABinet protocol and insert it back into the BIOS BOOT ROM so that it is unpacked upon POST.
Obviously we would rebuild NTOSKRNL.EXE using leaked code, rename it as XBOXKRNL.EXE, reseal it with appropriate cryptography and compression and then flash it into the region where the XBOX exepcts such to be.
This would then expect a HAL and Device Drivers as well as a Session Manager Sub-System and further programs at least up to the Winlogon.exe point where a system boot officially comes to an end.
Post by: Spartan-048 on April 04, 2006, 05:00:00 PM
You know, this bring me back to a thread I made... ( http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=502787 ). If this could work, I'd definetly use it on the project were working on. Good luck to you guys
. Hmm... I'd also have to run to and fro on the wikipedia to really get into what you guys are talking about
Post by: ferjero989 on April 26, 2006, 11:29:00 PM
1- the challenge was to run a windows on the xbox. selected ONE win98... i agree
2- some ppl tried to talk about wince and winxpe.. ok.. its easier BUT THATS NOT THE F** THREAD ABOUT
i vote to use win98 se. i tried all windows versions in my pc already... with a huge hard drive and up to 5 boots (win95, win98se, winme, win2k and winxp) so.. i can say i was running all at once..
was a pentium 550 slot 1, with 448 megs, 16 megs nvidia riva tnt and a sound blaster live. everything was fine.. BUT... winME sucks BIG TIME.... win2k... takes WAY TO MORE to load up. winXP is ok.. win98SE was amazing (just dont load up ie6.2). win95.. well.. kinda limited...
i vote to continue the proyect with the win98se... and those assholes talking about using winxpe and all that... shut up and open a new thread about running winxpe in the xbox...
Post by: torne on April 27, 2006, 05:19:00 AM
Either way the chances of anyone actually doing it are pretty tiny. It's extremely hard to do without the source code, and those who have the source legitimately are not allowed to tell (Shared Source licencing for Windows requires a non-disclosure agreement, which is my position).
Post by: thepureamrit on November 21, 2006, 06:08:00 PM
Allow me to introduce my self. I am The Pure Amrit. When I first read this topic, I knew this was right for me. I am a Windows Geek. I have been reading this article since the begining. The thought of running Windows PE on an XBOX is not bad. I do not know if someone had suguested Bart PE, but it can work. In Bart PE, you can create plugins for Windows XP (OR 2003) and modify the whole OS. In my (worthless) ammount of experiance, I believe that Windows 2003, and Windows CE will be the bet choice for the XBOX. Shure, it is possiable that you can make drivers for the XBOX. The Dashboard (and the rest of the xbox software) is only a modified version of the Windows 2000 Kernel (and Direct X). If That Helps Out At All, I Would Like To Know.
thanks
~The Pure Amrit
P.S.
If The XBOX is only Windows 2000, There is still hope for Windows XP... (
,Hint Hint)
Post by: torne on November 22, 2006, 04:28:00 AM
QUOTE(thepureamrit @ Nov 22 2006, 01:15 AM)
In Bart PE, you can create plugins for Windows XP (OR 2003) and modify the whole OS.
Those are just convenient ways to include/exclude particular files, they don't patch OS files.
QUOTE
The Dashboard (and the rest of the xbox software) is only a modified version of the Windows 2000 Kernel (and Direct X). If That Helps Out At All, I Would Like To Know.
Nope. The Xbox kernel is not in any way useful to run Windows - it's not compatible in any way with the NT kernels, even though it's derived from them (the most fundamental issue: NT syscalls take wide Unicode strings, Xbox syscalls take ASCII, so all string-based APIs are immediately incompatible).
Running Windows on the Xbox would have to work the same way as Linux - a loader replaces the existing kernel with something else.
Post by: nathan24 on January 27, 2007, 03:36:00 PM
Ex version 2.25. Copyright © Microsoft Corp.1986-1995.All right reserved.Drive 6 Driver TOMATO unit 0.
i installed xdsl by ftp if that helps.
Thanks
Post by: jake09071990 on March 17, 2007, 12:27:00 PM
Just thought this would help alot.
This is to modify windows XP only.
This post has been edited by jake09071990: Mar 17 2007, 07:28 PM
Post by: Scan-C on April 24, 2007, 02:59:00 PM
I didn't read everything til my last post but I'm sorry to say the source and binarys are lost. I got into some situation which stopped me from working on the code and visit these forums...
Well, I think Windows on the XBOX is still something we should try to archive and I would really like to get a project starting but this isn't as easy as using nlite. It needs patching of binary files and rewriting alot of Win32-Functions used at boottime.
I will need some time to get into all this again. I just tried to replace my Dashboard and, believe it or not, I couldn't remember how to name the xbe.
If someone knowing assembler wants to help, look over the files ntldr and kernel32.dll and try to understand it's basic inner workings. That's where patches need to be applied.
I'll be off know but I'm happy to be here again. The community seems to be as polite and friendly as ever.
Cya
Post by: PunMaster on May 06, 2007, 05:37:00 PM
I have a ton of questions but would love to help if I can! First of all, it seems as if the latest piece of working code, the CE .NET thing, is quite old but looks very promising. What the heck happened to that? How could a project that cool just die? Am I missing something? Secondly, What's the current focus? I've heard of a lot of different ways people are trying to get various versions of Windows running on the Xbox. Which ideas are still being actively perused? Lastly, what do I need to do to get involved? I am good with assembly, C++, and C# .NET. I also know a lot about windows and the Xbox hardware. I would love to be a part of this, but as of now I am pretty confused about where the Xbox Windows endeavor is going. Thanks!
Post by: hellknight on March 10, 2008, 11:19:00 AM
Post by: torne on March 10, 2008, 01:15:00 PM
QUOTE(hellknight @ Mar 10 2008, 05:55 PM)
It going no where sadly and I doubt with the 360 out that it will go any further then its death I hate saying it but this community and completely died since 360 came out and modding 360's isn't even that great and offers us nothing at the moment in the way of homebrew or anything like that so I really don't see or understand why 360 is slowly killing the xbox scene
The post you're replying to is over a year old, you know
The 360 isn't responsible for the idea of running Windows on the Xbox dying - it died because if you're happy running it under a virtualizer then it works, and there are pretty detailed instructions on how to do it - and if you want to run it natively it requires huge amounts of very difficult effort (as I detailed for a number of people for quite a while).
Quite simply there's nothing to do
Post by: torne on March 12, 2008, 05:45:00 AM
It's too hard for too little reward.
Post by: darkhanzou26 on March 13, 2008, 06:28:00 PM
Post by: torne on March 14, 2008, 05:23:00 AM
Sorry
Post by: grimdoomer on March 19, 2009, 07:16:00 PM
Post by: torne on March 20, 2009, 06:37:00 AM
If you poke through this thread and the rest of this forum looking for my posts you'll find my debunking of why various ideas are dumb, and an explanation of what would actually be required to make Windows run natively. It's a gargantuan amount of effort. Nobody with the required skills cares that much.
Post by: grimdoomer on March 20, 2009, 02:03:00 PM
Post by: Nextelhalo on May 07, 2009, 12:25:00 PM
Man that would be cool as hell. I'll fully support you on this, i know nothing about creating this but anything i can do to help i will. I would love to see something like this created.
Post by: hellknight on August 12, 2009, 10:41:00 PM
Post by: osmorphyus on August 21, 2009, 05:10:00 PM
i know that might make you think of 'just another linux port', but wine is pretty good on different platforms at running windows based software.
ultimately your going to have to enable the NIC. sounds cool tho. toss some screenshots sometime of your work.
Post by: WindowsOCManage on October 13, 2009, 07:01:00 AM
QUOTE(h8raid @ Sep 24 2004, 08:46 AM) 
"There's no source code for Windows. It has to not address some areas of the ram because this locks up the Xbox, and it has to not scan the pci bus otherwise, lockup. These are the major problems with Windows. Another thing are the drivers, there are none. The people who have Windows running use it through Bochs or Linux with VMWare. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it will be hard and without source code you will need a way to readdress the ramparts and stop the pci buxs scan. It's exactly the part where I am with my FreeDOS port. I'm just lacking the programming skills, but I'm learning right now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) at least FreeDOS is open source so I can rewrite it. A bios would be pretty complicated, but maybe load a program into memory that does this [forces the checks to pass] before the actual Windows bootloader kicks in. What I mean is some kind of a layer between hardware and Windows. I'm not experienced enough to write such code, but I think it should be possible." ~ Scan-C
Exactly what memory region should we not access?
Post by: torne on October 13, 2009, 10:17:00 AM
Post by: BuraddoX on February 18, 2011, 05:25:00 PM
Post by: tomegtt on July 30, 2011, 04:10:00 AM
Post by: luther349 on August 16, 2011, 05:17:00 PM
This post has been edited by luther349: Aug 17 2011, 12:18 AM
Post by: edwardrich01 on September 19, 2011, 11:56:00 PM
Post by: jaroc on October 24, 2011, 11:50:00 PM
QUOTE(tomegtt @ Jul 30 2011, 05:10 AM)
HELP HELP HELP!!!!!!!!!!!I'm sorry my Office 2007 can't open files and the office 2010 too,I don't know what happend to my computers,and all the datas in files can't open it, the information about coach handbags,quad,motorcyle,guitar,the price the quantity,all messed up.
Put the pipe down