Post by: Baner on February 10, 2005, 06:12:00 PM
QUOTE
Greenburg reports that the note was from Major Scott Stanger, of Benton, Ark., currently in Baghdad as operations officer, 1-153rd Infantry, 39th Infantry Brigade, Arkansas Army National Guard. The e-mail had been forwarded to Greenburg by his proud wife, Ronda. After reading it, we all understand why she's so proud of him.
The Letter Home
Today I got to witness first hand a new democracy take its first steps. My day started early. Actually, my day started about 4 days ago because we have been going non-stop since then, hence no updates lately. I was up at 5am. and my head was pounding and my sinuses were killing me. I was up and out with my team by 5:30am. I had to get at least one cup of coffee in me before I left.
The day started slow and we had some small arms fire, 8 rockets shot at us, and we found one IED. The small arms fire and the rockets missed us. The IED was another matter, but we called our bomb guys and they took care of it with their bomb robot. Which, by the way, is their third robot. The first two died in the line of duty. The polls opened at 7am and that's when things got interesting.
The press showed up in droves. It would have been impossible to swing a dead cat and not hit a reporter in our area of operation today. I met Campbell Brown from NBC. She was likable, but you could tell she did not want to be in Baghdad. She was very jumpy. I guess we were that way when we first got here, too, but you get used to the shooting.
We had very tight security on the polling sites and all around our area of operation. Iraqi police and Iraqi Army soldiers were at every polling site defending them. I have been planning for about 8 days for this mission and it was the largest we have done to date. Infantry, armor, attack helicopters, engineers . . . you name it, we had it.
The Iraqi government shut down all traffic in the country so the streets were deserted. At about 10am the streets were packed with large crowds of people walking to the polls. We were on edge waiting for more attacks that never came. By about 3pm we could start to let our hair down and talk to the people. The sight was amazing.
We dismounted from our vehicles and were instantly mobbed by about 200 kids. The kids were all over the place playing in the streets while their parents voted. The kids walked with us for about 2 miles while we were talking to the adults. I have never seen anything like it.
People everywhere wanted to talk to us and thank us. This is what it must have been like when the Allies liberated Paris. Iraqis of all ages wanted to shake our hands and thank us for allowing them to vote. The kids were proud to tell us that their parents voted. Adult after adult wanted to thank us for making this day happen.
When the Iraqis voted they dipped their fingers in indelible purple ink so that polling officials could tell who had already voted. When we walked the streets, the Iraqis would hold their purple finger up in the air as a mark of pride. They were very proud of their purple finger.
The Iraqis' statements to us were all the same: "Thank you for your sacrifices for the Iraqi people . . . . Thank you for making this day possible . . . The United States is the true democracy in the world and is the country that makes freedom possible . . . God blessed the Iraqi people and the United States this day . . . We have never known a day like this under Saddam . . . This day is like a great feast, a wonderful holiday . . ."
I shook more hands today than I have ever in my life. If you missed a hand they would follow for a mile to get a chance to shake and say thanks. It was nothing like we expected or have ever seen.
The Iraqi people were strong and brave today. The Iraqis, stoic to danger, faced fear, and went out and voted. Then after they voted the Iraqis stayed on the streets to celebrate by singing, dancing and trying to shake the hand of any American that they could find.
Even though today was a great day for Iraq, the Iraqis took their lumps. There were 6 car bombs in Iraq today, 2 of them in Baghdad. One I believe did more for Iraqi morale than any other event that I have ever witnessed here. A suicide car bomber drove up to a polling site, which was not too far from us, and blew up. The bomb did not kill anybody but the bomber himself. After the bomb went off the Iraqi voters calmly walked out of the polling site and spit on the remains of the suicide bomber. The polling site stayed open and the voting continued.
That incident ran all day long on Iraqi TV. It was a beautiful act of defiance for the Iraqi people. The Iraqi people stood up for themselves today and stuck a purple finger in the enemy's eye.
Later in the day I thought about our sacrifices that we have made. I wondered if the three men that my unit has sent home in flag-draped coffins was worth what I saw today. I am still not sure if that is the case, but when a grown Iraqi man thanks me with tears running down his face it made me feel better about what we have accomplished . . .
- Scott
The Letter Home
Today I got to witness first hand a new democracy take its first steps. My day started early. Actually, my day started about 4 days ago because we have been going non-stop since then, hence no updates lately. I was up at 5am. and my head was pounding and my sinuses were killing me. I was up and out with my team by 5:30am. I had to get at least one cup of coffee in me before I left.
The day started slow and we had some small arms fire, 8 rockets shot at us, and we found one IED. The small arms fire and the rockets missed us. The IED was another matter, but we called our bomb guys and they took care of it with their bomb robot. Which, by the way, is their third robot. The first two died in the line of duty. The polls opened at 7am and that's when things got interesting.
The press showed up in droves. It would have been impossible to swing a dead cat and not hit a reporter in our area of operation today. I met Campbell Brown from NBC. She was likable, but you could tell she did not want to be in Baghdad. She was very jumpy. I guess we were that way when we first got here, too, but you get used to the shooting.
We had very tight security on the polling sites and all around our area of operation. Iraqi police and Iraqi Army soldiers were at every polling site defending them. I have been planning for about 8 days for this mission and it was the largest we have done to date. Infantry, armor, attack helicopters, engineers . . . you name it, we had it.
The Iraqi government shut down all traffic in the country so the streets were deserted. At about 10am the streets were packed with large crowds of people walking to the polls. We were on edge waiting for more attacks that never came. By about 3pm we could start to let our hair down and talk to the people. The sight was amazing.
We dismounted from our vehicles and were instantly mobbed by about 200 kids. The kids were all over the place playing in the streets while their parents voted. The kids walked with us for about 2 miles while we were talking to the adults. I have never seen anything like it.
People everywhere wanted to talk to us and thank us. This is what it must have been like when the Allies liberated Paris. Iraqis of all ages wanted to shake our hands and thank us for allowing them to vote. The kids were proud to tell us that their parents voted. Adult after adult wanted to thank us for making this day happen.
When the Iraqis voted they dipped their fingers in indelible purple ink so that polling officials could tell who had already voted. When we walked the streets, the Iraqis would hold their purple finger up in the air as a mark of pride. They were very proud of their purple finger.
The Iraqis' statements to us were all the same: "Thank you for your sacrifices for the Iraqi people . . . . Thank you for making this day possible . . . The United States is the true democracy in the world and is the country that makes freedom possible . . . God blessed the Iraqi people and the United States this day . . . We have never known a day like this under Saddam . . . This day is like a great feast, a wonderful holiday . . ."
I shook more hands today than I have ever in my life. If you missed a hand they would follow for a mile to get a chance to shake and say thanks. It was nothing like we expected or have ever seen.
The Iraqi people were strong and brave today. The Iraqis, stoic to danger, faced fear, and went out and voted. Then after they voted the Iraqis stayed on the streets to celebrate by singing, dancing and trying to shake the hand of any American that they could find.
Even though today was a great day for Iraq, the Iraqis took their lumps. There were 6 car bombs in Iraq today, 2 of them in Baghdad. One I believe did more for Iraqi morale than any other event that I have ever witnessed here. A suicide car bomber drove up to a polling site, which was not too far from us, and blew up. The bomb did not kill anybody but the bomber himself. After the bomb went off the Iraqi voters calmly walked out of the polling site and spit on the remains of the suicide bomber. The polling site stayed open and the voting continued.
That incident ran all day long on Iraqi TV. It was a beautiful act of defiance for the Iraqi people. The Iraqi people stood up for themselves today and stuck a purple finger in the enemy's eye.
Later in the day I thought about our sacrifices that we have made. I wondered if the three men that my unit has sent home in flag-draped coffins was worth what I saw today. I am still not sure if that is the case, but when a grown Iraqi man thanks me with tears running down his face it made me feel better about what we have accomplished . . .
- Scott
Take it as you will, but last time I checked, I don't cry while following a soilder for miles just to shake his hand in appreciation for what him and his country has done.
I also like how the news organizations failed to dig up any dirt on the elections abroad, not enough death and anti-Americanism to fullfil America's blood lust?
Post by: ZeroTheHero on February 10, 2005, 06:16:00 PM
Post by: gcskate27 on February 10, 2005, 06:26:00 PM
Post by: socrates on February 11, 2005, 10:40:00 AM
Post by: damam on February 11, 2005, 11:14:00 AM
The press (and the rest of the world?) were just salivating at the site of this election. They were ready to air catastrophic attacks, voter disenfranchisement, rigged elections, etc, etc, etc
their is nothing that can change the fact that none of these things happened in numbers large enough to be news worthy.
The press thought they were getting triple wami Paki Hash, they went to work all excited loaded their bowl, only to find that they really got dirty asphalt tar. Serves them right
Post by: The unProfessional on February 11, 2005, 12:49:00 PM
QUOTE
The press thought they were getting triple wami Paki Hash, they went to work all excited loaded their bowl, only to find that they really got dirty asphalt tar. Serves them right
Well put. It really feels good to watch sleezy reports and their dirtbag parent stations take a hit like that.
But they're back to reporting dozens of daily slaughters, so they're happy.
Post by: Maximumbeing on February 13, 2005, 08:09:00 PM
Yeah, thats right. Eat it, Country Music.
Post by: Tony42077 on February 14, 2005, 01:59:00 PM
QUOTE(Maximumbeing @ Feb 14 2005, 03:15 AM)
I dont hate America so much, it's more Toby Keith that I hate. Especially that song about lighting up Iraq "Red White and Blue," because they "Sucker-punched" us. I guess this sucker punch came after we pre-emptively invaded them?
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: Maximumbeing on February 14, 2005, 02:05:00 PM
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Ah, my bad. My girlfriends mother was showing me an army promotional video about the bombing of iraq, and it had that song playing. So I assumed, and we all know what happens when we assume.
He complied as much as possible, we just refused to except basic conclusions.
We wanted a war with Iraq.
Remind anyone of the Spanish-American war?
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: My_Brain_is_on_Fire on February 14, 2005, 02:15:00 PM
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Yeah and Spain got owned, that was also when true journalism died and was replaced with jingoism. The world only hates us because we kick so much ass.
.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: Tony42077 on February 14, 2005, 02:22:00 PM
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Post by: Maximumbeing on February 14, 2005, 02:05:00 PM
He complied as much as possible, we just refused to except basic conclusions.
We wanted a war with Iraq.
Remind anyone of the Spanish-American war?
Post by: My_Brain_is_on_Fire on February 14, 2005, 02:15:00 PM
.
Post by: Tony42077 on February 14, 2005, 02:22:00 PM
QUOTE(My_Brain_is_on_Fire @ Feb 14 2005, 09:21 PM)
Yeah and Spain got owned, that was also when true journalism died and was replaced with jingoism. The world only hates us because we kick so much ass. .
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: melon on February 15, 2005, 01:06:00 PM
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Now our countries are in its better they stayed in. and I admit it would be nice to see the US taken down a peg or two, ala Vietnam.
Now Saddam is out of power the Iraqi people have a hopefully brighter future but I just see civil war in 5 years time.
Its not for me to say if the monstrous number of civilian casualties and the destruction of their country was a price worth paying. It doesnt effect me directly that Iraq will be controlled by the IMF for the next thousand years, ala Turkey.
But the war still was not just!
You have to understand my reasoning.
Zimbabwe is in chaos. Mugabe has turned it into a fascist police state and his lack of judgment has port the entire country at risk.
He kicked off all the affluent white farmers off their land to give to the poverish black communities. I think this is a good thing but he should have offered them the choice to help run the farms for a decent wage. Without the knowledge of the white farmers all the crops have failed and the country has a devastating food shortage.
If Bush and Blair had turned their intentions to Zimbabwe rather than Iraq then it could have saved lives and instilled democracy. It would have been a far easier task than what has faced them in Iraq. The people of Zimbabwe would have genuinely welcomed us to their streets rather than blowing themselves up as a sign of pure hatred and unwanting.
Nepal is in a similar position. King Gyanendra staged a military coup to take charge of the country. Our countries have withdrawn their ambassadors in protest.
His excuse? ..........Terrorism.
The Maoists rebel forces are currently applying a blockade to starve the city of supplies. This has the potential to turn very ugly.
I havent even mentioned the Sudan were the Government sponsored militia groups have gone on a rampage killing tens of thousands and with over 2 million made homeless.
All the above situations could both have been solved with fewer resources (both human and financial) Iraq has used. Then why Iraq?
It is obvious their are ulterior motives involved.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: xboxbox451 on February 15, 2005, 07:20:00 PM
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What are you talking about????? From what I recall it was British intelligence that convinced the U.S. Iraq had WMDs and posed a threat to the Western World.
You detest U.S. intervention on Iraqi soil, but want the U.S. to extend all its resources to dissolve every other Dictatorship world-wide.
When it comes to U.S. policy, its simply summed up as damned if you do, damned if you dont.
Dont criticize a Nation when it was influenced by your own.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: FoeHammer05 on February 15, 2005, 07:38:00 PM
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.Post by: melon on February 15, 2005, 01:06:00 PM
Now Saddam is out of power the Iraqi people have a hopefully brighter future but I just see civil war in 5 years time.
Its not for me to say if the monstrous number of civilian casualties and the destruction of their country was a price worth paying. It doesnt effect me directly that Iraq will be controlled by the IMF for the next thousand years, ala Turkey.
But the war still was not just!
You have to understand my reasoning.
Zimbabwe is in chaos. Mugabe has turned it into a fascist police state and his lack of judgment has port the entire country at risk.
He kicked off all the affluent white farmers off their land to give to the poverish black communities. I think this is a good thing but he should have offered them the choice to help run the farms for a decent wage. Without the knowledge of the white farmers all the crops have failed and the country has a devastating food shortage.
If Bush and Blair had turned their intentions to Zimbabwe rather than Iraq then it could have saved lives and instilled democracy. It would have been a far easier task than what has faced them in Iraq. The people of Zimbabwe would have genuinely welcomed us to their streets rather than blowing themselves up as a sign of pure hatred and unwanting.
Nepal is in a similar position. King Gyanendra staged a military coup to take charge of the country. Our countries have withdrawn their ambassadors in protest.
His excuse? ..........Terrorism.
The Maoists rebel forces are currently applying a blockade to starve the city of supplies. This has the potential to turn very ugly.
I havent even mentioned the Sudan were the Government sponsored militia groups have gone on a rampage killing tens of thousands and with over 2 million made homeless.
All the above situations could both have been solved with fewer resources (both human and financial) Iraq has used. Then why Iraq?
It is obvious their are ulterior motives involved.
Post by: xboxbox451 on February 15, 2005, 07:20:00 PM
QUOTE
Its not for me to say if the monstrous number of civilian casualties and the destruction of their country was a price worth paying. It doesnt effect me directly that Iraq will be controlled by the IMF for the next thousand years, ala Turkey.
But the war still was not just!
You have to understand my reasoning.
But the war still was not just!
You have to understand my reasoning.
What are you talking about????? From what I recall it was British intelligence that convinced the U.S. Iraq had WMDs and posed a threat to the Western World.
QUOTE
If Bush and Blair had turned their intentions to Zimbabwe rather than Iraq then it could have saved lives and instilled democracy. It would have been a far easier task than what has faced them in Iraq. The people of Zimbabwe would have genuinely welcomed us to their streets rather than blowing themselves up as a sign of pure hatred and unwanting.
You detest U.S. intervention on Iraqi soil, but want the U.S. to extend all its resources to dissolve every other Dictatorship world-wide.
When it comes to U.S. policy, its simply summed up as damned if you do, damned if you dont.
Dont criticize a Nation when it was influenced by your own.
Post by: FoeHammer05 on February 15, 2005, 07:38:00 PM
QUOTE(Maximumbeing @ Feb 13 2005, 09:15 PM)
I dont hate America so much, it's more Toby Keith that I hate. Especially that song about lighting up Iraq "Red White and Blue," because they "Sucker-punched" us. I guess this sucker punch came after we pre-emptively invaded them?
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: Maximumbeing on February 16, 2005, 01:47:00 PM
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As I said, I heard it while watching a movie promoting the bombing of Iraq. Sorry if i don't look far enough into trash to misunderstand it's trashy meaning, when after all is said it's still trash.
DA?
Or perhaps AD?
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: melon on February 16, 2005, 02:01:00 PM
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I know the war wasnt altruistic but most pro war people bang on about removing a dictator as the reason for going to war. I was trying to dispel this myth by showing easier alternatives. The Sudan especially is a massive problem and its only going to escelate.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: My_Brain_is_on_Fire on February 16, 2005, 02:25:00 PM
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You're right, and guess what? No one fucking cares. If only Sudan's sex trade was as popular as Indonesias and they offered certain resorts to attract wealthy white Europeans to, then when a disaster or some other chaotic event occurred, someone might actually give a shit. The world revolves around the white man, anyone remember Rwanda or care for that matter? What was missing in Rwanda that was present in Indonesia? Rich white people.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: SniperKilla on February 16, 2005, 02:51:00 PM
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Post by: Maximumbeing on February 16, 2005, 01:47:00 PM
QUOTE
Wow you are a DA, he isn't talking about Iraq, he is talking about terrorist.
As I said, I heard it while watching a movie promoting the bombing of Iraq. Sorry if i don't look far enough into trash to misunderstand it's trashy meaning, when after all is said it's still trash.
DA?
Or perhaps AD?
Post by: melon on February 16, 2005, 02:01:00 PM
Post by: My_Brain_is_on_Fire on February 16, 2005, 02:25:00 PM
Post by: SniperKilla on February 16, 2005, 02:51:00 PM
QUOTE(gcskate27 @ Feb 10 2005, 07:32 PM)
ill take it as a staged letter, as that is what it very much seems...
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: Arvarden on February 17, 2005, 05:54:00 PM
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They are thanked in Fallujah? A doctor from the Uk or US has just returned from Fallujah and he witnissed first hand the abuse, cruelty and cold blooded murder of Iraqi civilians by the hand of the US people/government/troops.
"Entire familys will come up to them and hug them, just because they are american soldiers"
BS, have you witnessed this first hand or are going to tell us your father is a navy seal? I have no doubt that some welcome the coalition but the fact is the majority can't wait to see us leave the region for better or for worse.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: bluedeath on February 17, 2005, 06:55:00 PM
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'Brrrrrinnnnnggg ..............Brrrrrriiiiinnnnnngggg............ wake up call.."
It is too damn late. We are stuck. There is no turning back. The web has been woven so tight that all paths out of IRAQ lead to disaster. The american economy is dependent on the war continuing. No one could have planned this debacle any better. I want to hear the Europeans say that they don't need the mindless consumer american economy to survive ........ HA we will take you all with us.
<YODA>Slippery slope it is. Screwed we are. Land war in Asia avoid you should</YODA>
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: My_Brain_is_on_Fire on February 17, 2005, 08:13:00 PM
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Post by: Arvarden on February 17, 2005, 05:54:00 PM
"Entire familys will come up to them and hug them, just because they are american soldiers"
BS, have you witnessed this first hand or are going to tell us your father is a navy seal? I have no doubt that some welcome the coalition but the fact is the majority can't wait to see us leave the region for better or for worse.
Post by: bluedeath on February 17, 2005, 06:55:00 PM
It is too damn late. We are stuck. There is no turning back. The web has been woven so tight that all paths out of IRAQ lead to disaster. The american economy is dependent on the war continuing. No one could have planned this debacle any better. I want to hear the Europeans say that they don't need the mindless consumer american economy to survive ........ HA we will take you all with us.
<YODA>Slippery slope it is. Screwed we are. Land war in Asia avoid you should</YODA>
Post by: My_Brain_is_on_Fire on February 17, 2005, 08:13:00 PM
QUOTE(Colonel32 @ Feb 17 2005, 08:05 AM)
And where there is rich white people in third world countries there is petroleum
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: The unProfessional on February 17, 2005, 08:20:00 PM
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... right, because taking 180 billion dollars out of a struggling economy really gets the cash flowin'. I agree we're stuck, but the reasons are primarily political.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: bluedeath on February 17, 2005, 09:10:00 PM
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Post by: The unProfessional on February 17, 2005, 08:20:00 PM
QUOTE
The american economy is dependent on the war continuing
... right, because taking 180 billion dollars out of a struggling economy really gets the cash flowin'. I agree we're stuck, but the reasons are primarily political.
Post by: bluedeath on February 17, 2005, 09:10:00 PM
QUOTE(The unProfessional @ Feb 17 2005, 07:26 PM)
... right, because taking 180 billion dollars out of a struggling economy really gets the cash flowin'. I agree we're stuck, but the reasons are primarily political.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: SniperKilla on February 17, 2005, 09:17:00 PM
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Post by: SniperKilla on February 17, 2005, 09:17:00 PM
QUOTE(Arvarden @ Feb 17 2005, 07:00 PM)
They are thanked in Fallujah? A doctor from the Uk or US has just returned from Fallujah and he witnissed first hand the abuse, cruelty and cold blooded murder of Iraqi civilians by the hand of the US people/government/troops.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: My_Brain_is_on_Fire on February 18, 2005, 02:36:00 AM
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Post by: My_Brain_is_on_Fire on February 18, 2005, 02:36:00 AM
QUOTE(Colonel32 @ Feb 18 2005, 09:18 AM)
I was talking about aggression against Timorese. I would consider that genocide. It was acceptable in the same way Sudan and Rwanda are acceptable. And the opposite of that would be Suharto's thirty years of authoritarian rule while Europe and the US gave him hot oil massages.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: bluedeath on February 18, 2005, 06:07:00 PM
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Post by: bluedeath on February 18, 2005, 06:07:00 PM
QUOTE(Arvarden @ Feb 18 2005, 04:15 AM)
You are forgetting that freedom fighters born and bred in Iraq are taking up arms against the coalition, it's true in the early stages of Iraq's re birth into a Democracy foreign fighters flocked to the region.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: Doiron on February 22, 2005, 06:46:00 AM
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That idiot cant even do one thing right and though he is a liar he's the worst of them all!!!
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: Tony42077 on February 22, 2005, 12:56:00 PM
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Post by: Doiron on February 22, 2005, 06:46:00 AM
That idiot cant even do one thing right and though he is a liar he's the worst of them all!!!
Post by: Tony42077 on February 22, 2005, 12:56:00 PM
QUOTE(Doiron @ Feb 22 2005, 01:52 PM)
The world does't hate America you morons...the world hates american politics, americam laws, their supremacy over the world...Their "I'm a goddam millionaire and I'm taking over the world industries and making kids work for 5 cents a day"
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: Maximumbeing on February 22, 2005, 03:01:00 PM
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Tony's right. It is our fault that outsourcing is keeping us from having the money to buy expensive american goods. If only I were in the top 2%, then all these tax breaks would have me swimming in the cash that I already had in abundance!
God bless the free white rich America.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: My_Brain_is_on_Fire on February 22, 2005, 03:19:00 PM
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They actually pay more in taxes now than they did when Clinton was in office. I guess what I'm trying to say is:
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: melon on February 22, 2005, 04:18:00 PM
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Tony the worlds second language is Enlgish not American.
And your Government is indirectly responsible for workshops.
Your Government has always subsidised corporations so they can undercut local business. Do some research on Jamaican milk farms and how Clinton subsidised a company to undercut prices selling powdered milk untill every diary had shut down. The Jamaicans being so poor anyway were always going to buy the powdered form when it was a fraction of the price of fresh. Once all the diarys had shut down and there was even more people unable to find work Clinton stopped the subsidies and the price rocketed. The people now had no other choice but to buy it and it now cost a lot more than fresh milk had a year earlier. This obviously created health problems but they were unable to spend any money on health care as dictated to them by the American ran IMF.
Your government bartered for a free port in Jamaica which would house factories for Tommy Hilfigher and the like. The Jamaican people were payed a pittance and not even allowed to take their own lunch or drinks to work. The factories were kept hot to ensure drinks were bought. When they went on strike the companies shipped Chinese workers in. Your Government helped set this up!
You should also look into your Governments influence in Chiquitos becomming the biggest bannana supplier in the world! Quite impressive since none of the bannanas they sell are grown in America. Also look into the batterings by local Governments of Chiquitos workers for striking. This is basically slave labour approved by the USA.
I could go on and on but this is just a part of why America is hated in developing countries.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: damam on February 22, 2005, 04:46:00 PM
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That cant be right - your trying to tell me he pulled a walmart? Thats an evil corporation tactic that only republicans do.
Clinton was the first black president - the president for the little man - the president the world embraced and loved - the greatest president since . . . since . . . no the greatest president ever!!!!!
:drippingsarcasm:
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: Tony42077 on February 22, 2005, 06:41:00 PM
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Post by: Maximumbeing on February 22, 2005, 03:01:00 PM
God bless the free white rich America.
Post by: My_Brain_is_on_Fire on February 22, 2005, 03:19:00 PM
Post by: melon on February 22, 2005, 04:18:00 PM
And your Government is indirectly responsible for workshops.
Your Government has always subsidised corporations so they can undercut local business. Do some research on Jamaican milk farms and how Clinton subsidised a company to undercut prices selling powdered milk untill every diary had shut down. The Jamaicans being so poor anyway were always going to buy the powdered form when it was a fraction of the price of fresh. Once all the diarys had shut down and there was even more people unable to find work Clinton stopped the subsidies and the price rocketed. The people now had no other choice but to buy it and it now cost a lot more than fresh milk had a year earlier. This obviously created health problems but they were unable to spend any money on health care as dictated to them by the American ran IMF.
Your government bartered for a free port in Jamaica which would house factories for Tommy Hilfigher and the like. The Jamaican people were payed a pittance and not even allowed to take their own lunch or drinks to work. The factories were kept hot to ensure drinks were bought. When they went on strike the companies shipped Chinese workers in. Your Government helped set this up!
You should also look into your Governments influence in Chiquitos becomming the biggest bannana supplier in the world! Quite impressive since none of the bannanas they sell are grown in America. Also look into the batterings by local Governments of Chiquitos workers for striking. This is basically slave labour approved by the USA.
I could go on and on but this is just a part of why America is hated in developing countries.
Post by: damam on February 22, 2005, 04:46:00 PM
QUOTE(melon)
. . . Clinton subsidised a company to undercut prices selling powdered milk untill every diary had shut down. . .
That cant be right - your trying to tell me he pulled a walmart? Thats an evil corporation tactic that only republicans do.
Clinton was the first black president - the president for the little man - the president the world embraced and loved - the greatest president since . . . since . . . no the greatest president ever!!!!!
:drippingsarcasm:
Post by: Tony42077 on February 22, 2005, 06:41:00 PM
QUOTE(melon @ Feb 22 2005, 11:24 PM)
Tony the worlds second language is Enlgish not American.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: Maximumbeing on February 22, 2005, 07:03:00 PM
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At least Britain did/does their bullshit upfront. I'd hate to bring up the Spanish-American war again but...
That is some ridiculous imperialism.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: melon on February 23, 2005, 02:37:00 PM
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ok I was being petty over the language but you cant ignore facts. I have done a fair bit of research on Jamaica so I use it as an example but the same thing happens the world over in developing countries.
Im as responsible for British colonialism as you are for the theft of land from indigenous Americans. Besides my great grandparents would have either been working as manual labour for a pittance or farming fields in Ireland. Britains colonial past has fuck all to do with me.
Stick to the issues instead of ignoring what I have said. Your Government does do these things so why not admit your country is not perfect? You cannot deny your country does nothing at all wrong! Every country does good and bad things in different ratios and in deifferent ways. That includes America.
I should have told you about how Clinton took Britain to court because we use to allow Jamaica to import bananas with no import tax. It was a kind of apology for having ruled their country. Obviously other companies found it harder to compete so through the WTO CLinton removed the hurdle which was stopping Chiquitos doninating the British banana market. The Jamaican farmers went out of business and increased the poverty.
Here is a link to an article which some people might find interesting about America's bully tactics in the World's economies.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: Tony42077 on February 23, 2005, 03:24:00 PM
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Post by: Maximumbeing on February 22, 2005, 07:03:00 PM
That is some ridiculous imperialism.
Post by: melon on February 23, 2005, 02:37:00 PM
Im as responsible for British colonialism as you are for the theft of land from indigenous Americans. Besides my great grandparents would have either been working as manual labour for a pittance or farming fields in Ireland. Britains colonial past has fuck all to do with me.
Stick to the issues instead of ignoring what I have said. Your Government does do these things so why not admit your country is not perfect? You cannot deny your country does nothing at all wrong! Every country does good and bad things in different ratios and in deifferent ways. That includes America.
I should have told you about how Clinton took Britain to court because we use to allow Jamaica to import bananas with no import tax. It was a kind of apology for having ruled their country. Obviously other companies found it harder to compete so through the WTO CLinton removed the hurdle which was stopping Chiquitos doninating the British banana market. The Jamaican farmers went out of business and increased the poverty.
Here is a link to an article which some people might find interesting about America's bully tactics in the World's economies.
Post by: Tony42077 on February 23, 2005, 03:24:00 PM
QUOTE(melon @ Feb 23 2005, 09:43 PM)
Stick to the issues instead of ignoring what I have said. Your Government does do these things so why not admit your country is not perfect? You cannot deny your country does nothing at all wrong! Every country does good and bad things in different ratios and in deifferent ways. That includes America.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: melon on February 23, 2005, 03:55:00 PM
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Im not demonising your country (in this issue), just stating facts.
You have to except for all the good your country does, it does a lot of bad as well.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: Tony42077 on February 24, 2005, 11:37:00 AM
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Post by: melon on February 23, 2005, 03:55:00 PM
You have to except for all the good your country does, it does a lot of bad as well.
Post by: Tony42077 on February 24, 2005, 11:37:00 AM
QUOTE(Arvarden @ Feb 24 2005, 11:22 AM)
Iraq? Israel? Iran?
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: My_Brain_is_on_Fire on February 24, 2005, 12:19:00 PM
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: melon on February 25, 2005, 01:12:00 PM
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ok there is a lot of slagging off going on but how about returning to the issues. I would like to hear some opinions on what has been said.
Daman I admit I used to like Clinton until I realised he was Dubya with charisma.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: ThaCrip on March 03, 2005, 06:31:00 PM
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... cause i think if it where not for america being as powerfull as it is... they would probably attempt to take over the world... which would obviously be a bad thing.
cause from what i read (i aint gonna say where cause all u guys will do is cut me down and try to discredit my source etc) ... looks like most (not all) of the worlds corruption boils down to RUSSIA.
I'm not against all russians but u guys get my point.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: Maximumbeing on March 03, 2005, 07:07:00 PM
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I think you're forgetting about the entire population of Europe.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: ThaCrip on March 03, 2005, 07:58:00 PM
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Post by: My_Brain_is_on_Fire on February 24, 2005, 12:19:00 PM
Post by: melon on February 25, 2005, 01:12:00 PM
Daman I admit I used to like Clinton until I realised he was Dubya with charisma.
Post by: ThaCrip on March 03, 2005, 06:31:00 PM
... cause i think if it where not for america being as powerfull as it is... they would probably attempt to take over the world... which would obviously be a bad thing.cause from what i read (i aint gonna say where cause all u guys will do is cut me down and try to discredit my source etc) ... looks like most (not all) of the worlds corruption boils down to RUSSIA.
I'm not against all russians but u guys get my point.
Post by: Maximumbeing on March 03, 2005, 07:07:00 PM
Post by: ThaCrip on March 03, 2005, 07:58:00 PM
QUOTE(Maximumbeing @ Mar 3 2005, 09:13 PM)
I think you're forgetting about the entire population of Europe.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: pb2themax on March 04, 2005, 02:11:00 PM
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The majority of the world will always be critical of America, no matter what we do. But for some strange reason we have 5 times the number of foreigners coming here to live, than any other country. In some cases, we have more foreigners here than they have in their native country.
We're free, we're rich, we're the land of opportunity, and we have the biggest balls.
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Title: The World Hates America
Post by: TeonHarasymiv on March 11, 2005, 06:46:00 AM
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LMFAO! Nice one
Post by: pb2themax on March 04, 2005, 02:11:00 PM
We're free, we're rich, we're the land of opportunity, and we have the biggest balls.
Post by: TeonHarasymiv on March 11, 2005, 06:46:00 AM
QUOTE
We're free, we're rich, we're the land of opportunity, and we have the biggest balls.
LMFAO! Nice one