Post by: RcbUK on December 17, 2004, 05:43:00 PM
Now, if a God made us, why would he have made us all differently? Eg some people have diseases, others are rich bastards etc. He wouldn't have wanted people in Africa to starve, surely?
Just a quick 1 minute sum up of my thoughts
Post by: nemt on December 17, 2004, 06:01:00 PM
Post by: dietrite on December 17, 2004, 08:24:00 PM
| QUOTE (nemt @ Dec 17 2004, 07:04 PM) |
| The Universe certainly shows signs of intelligent design, as evidenced by the lack of total starlight or total darkness. |
can you elaborate?
Post by: fishlord on December 18, 2004, 12:02:00 AM
| QUOTE (dietrite @ Dec 18 2004, 05:27 AM) |
| can you elaborate? |
im guessing he cant.
Post by: nemt on December 18, 2004, 09:40:00 AM
| QUOTE (dietrite @ Dec 17 2004, 11:27 PM) |
| can you elaborate? |
Well, various parts of chaos theory and causality suggest the universe should either contain no light, or so much light that every single position in the sky would be filled with a star.
Post by: cainedna on December 18, 2004, 12:49:00 PM
I've only got a basic understanding of how something like the human liver works, and mine is inside me, functioning all the same.
How can you even expect to fully understand an entity that encompasses all of existence? You can have faith in a higher power and leave it at that, if you need an answer.
On the other hand, you can accept that we've got a worse chance understanding out universe than my liver has comprehending the city I live in.
In other words, look at the dark ages in Europe. Do you think anyone had a good idea of what the universe is about? I'll be the first to say we've come a long way, but do you think that we're in any position to say anything yet? We've hardly left the planet in all of that time.
Post by: tupac2 on December 19, 2004, 08:51:00 PM
Post by: Baner on December 20, 2004, 05:34:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Eg some people have diseases, others are rich bastards etc. He wouldn't have wanted people in Africa to starve, surely? |
Everyone is born the same, but it is up to them to deciede what theyw ant to do with thier lives. Money is a man made enitity, God can't give you money, but he can give you the means to get it, which we are all born with, but many deicede not to use. Again, God gave man the ability to learn to grow crops, and care for the land they live on, it's up to them if they want to use it.
I think the Big Bang is the biggest load of bull, everything you see, and and infinite amount of space you can't see, created by one little molecule, reacting with itself... All humans, plants, animals, all non-living things... all sprouting from a single molecule.
And I agree, creationism has many flaws, and without some sort of faith in God, there's no way you can comprehend his power and abilities.
Post by: afon on December 21, 2004, 05:55:00 PM
QUOTE
I think the Big Bang is the biggest load of bull, everything you see, and and infinite amount of space you can't see, created by one little molecule, reacting with itself... All humans, plants, animals, all non-living things... all sprouting from a single molecule.
And I agree, creationism has many flaws, and without some sort of faith in God, there's no way you can comprehend his power and abilities.
And I agree, creationism has many flaws, and without some sort of faith in God, there's no way you can comprehend his power and abilities.
Yeah man, and its not like a nuclear explosion could come of one atom either. Wait a minute....
Post by: nemt on December 21, 2004, 09:13:00 PM
QUOTE(afon @ Dec 21 2004, 08:58 PM)
Yeah man, and its not like a nuclear explosion could come of one atom either. Wait a minute....
A nuclear explosion comes out of many many atoms, not just one...
Post by: Mr. Chips on December 21, 2004, 11:40:00 PM
QUOTE(afon @ Dec 21 2004, 05:58 PM)
Yeah man, and its not like a nuclear explosion could come of one atom either. Wait a minute....
You are right that a nuclear (nucular :lol:) explosion can be created from the splitting of an atom. But It does not serve as a good example of the Big Bang Theory. The Big Bang Theory is proposing the creation of an infintessimal amount of mass from a small blip the size of a period. Nuclear reactions however, are destructive forces. Not to mention they cannot occur naturally. But that is a good argument nonetheless.
I challenge you to set aside the almost certain impossibility of there having been such an explosion long ago. Now, would you be able to explain how such an event could create all the mass of the galaxy?
I'd be curious to see if you can. :)
This post has been edited by Mr. Chips: Dec 22 2004, 07:42 AM
Post by: Ice9Tech on December 22, 2004, 04:36:00 AM
Shit happens.
Post by: Baner on December 22, 2004, 06:40:00 AM
QUOTE
My summary of all my views:
Shit happens.
Shit happens.
Sure, that's a summary, but human nature wants us to dig dipper in shit. It makes us want to figure out what we had for dinner, or lunch two nights ago, and how that piece of corn got in there.
Post by: gronne on December 23, 2004, 06:39:00 PM
It doesn't matter how much you explain for religious people why they are wrong, as they will always come up with various excuses which "proves" them right. I can REALLY understand why they want their religions to be true (who would accept they've been living in a lie?). I respect their believes, but if they speak for their cause I will always tell them what I feel about it. I could say we're all equal shits who don't deserve anything, but since we're here I will always speak for the weak and choose to say that we're all equal, but equal in a highly valuable manner.
Post by: Wolfblade13 on December 24, 2004, 05:32:00 AM
QUOTE(baner)
I think the Big Bang is the biggest load of bull, everything you see, and and infinite amount of space you can't see, created by one little molecule, reacting with itself... All humans, plants, animals, all non-living things... all sprouting from a single molecule.
And I agree, creationism has many flaws, and without some sort of faith in God, there's no way you can comprehend his power and abilities.
And I agree, creationism has many flaws, and without some sort of faith in God, there's no way you can comprehend his power and abilities.
QUOTE(nemt @ Dec 22 2004, 05:13 AM)
A nuclear explosion comes out of many many atoms, not just one...
A nuclear explosion comes out of many atoms, but if there was 1 molecule (like baner says),who contains many molecules, it could be reacting with itself (you dont know the circumstances of that time the universe existed).
and btw. if "god" made it, was he in heaven or something? if not, where was he? Did heaven already existed in that time? :blink:
Post by: SKoT on December 24, 2004, 09:00:00 AM
Post by: afon on December 24, 2004, 11:25:00 AM
God, why couldnt i have thought of that one :-(
Post by: XeroKitsune on December 24, 2004, 06:58:00 PM
I've allways seen it as not imposible, but statisticly rare. There are a lot of planets, so there are many many chances for rare conditions to occur. Also were still missing many of the rules, what I mean is there are a lot of materials that could have unique properties we have not seen and unique events that could have occured. Another event with low staticical being hit with lighting, but it does occur.
So in my oppion, it comes down to your belief that is was just the roll of the dice or if someone/something rolled a loaded pair just for this planet.
Post by: pegasys on December 24, 2004, 07:57:00 PM
Post by: SKoT on December 25, 2004, 08:12:00 AM
QUOTE(XeroKitsune @ Dec 25 2004, 03:29 AM)
I'm going to toss my pocket change in on evolution
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: pegasys on December 25, 2004, 08:55:00 AM
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I don't belive god know what humans will do because then he we are not truely free, and are predestined either to love god or not love god. And according to some of my uber religios friends, what makes humans different and better than angels is that we can choose whether to love God or not. And god knowing all just dosn't fit into that equation. He know 99.9% but not exactly what we will do. He can probably predict it because he has infanate wisdom ect. I am interested in XeroKitsune's respnse as well.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Wolfblade13 on December 27, 2004, 05:29:00 AM
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: SKoT on December 27, 2004, 09:07:00 AM
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Post by: pegasys on December 25, 2004, 08:55:00 AM
Post by: Wolfblade13 on December 27, 2004, 05:29:00 AM
Post by: SKoT on December 27, 2004, 09:07:00 AM
QUOTE(pegasys @ Dec 25 2004, 05:26 PM)
I don't belive god know what humans will do because then he we are not truely free, and are predestined either to love god or not love god. And according to some of my uber religios friends, what makes humans different and better than angels is that we can choose whether to love God or not. And god knowing all just dosn't fit into that equation. He know 99.9% but not exactly what we will do. He can probably predict it because he has infanate wisdom ect. I am interested in XeroKitsune's respnse as well.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Baner on December 28, 2004, 08:25:00 AM
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That's what we're told to believe. No one has proven this. I've yet to see a "tamed" black hole, or any man made object close to a black hole.
I'm not so sure you could call being struck by lightning as having "low staticical" when comparing it to us evolving from rocks...
I think that's been discussed as the "clock maker" theory. The clock maker creates his watch, doesn't intervine with it, unless it breaks, in which he fixes it and sends it off on its way again.
The fact is, we will never know how it all happend. With science, we need data to compare too, and when it was the begining, there is no data to use to compare. With religion, you must hvae faith in a book written 2000 years ago by man, from the word of God, but that's something many people decide not to have. We will be questioning this fo centuries to come, if we last that long, and aguing whether religion or science fits the situation better.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: XeroKitsune on December 29, 2004, 01:16:00 PM
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Post by: Baner on December 28, 2004, 08:25:00 AM
QUOTE
Well a black hole can compress an infinite mass into an infinitely small area
That's what we're told to believe. No one has proven this. I've yet to see a "tamed" black hole, or any man made object close to a black hole.
QUOTE
Another event with low staticical being hit with lighting
I'm not so sure you could call being struck by lightning as having "low staticical" when comparing it to us evolving from rocks...
QUOTE
My theory, God creates big bang, with plan of what will happen in mind. Lets humans evolve naturally. Plants the idea of religion in our heads, lets u decide what to belive, and how to whorshop.
I think that's been discussed as the "clock maker" theory. The clock maker creates his watch, doesn't intervine with it, unless it breaks, in which he fixes it and sends it off on its way again.
The fact is, we will never know how it all happend. With science, we need data to compare too, and when it was the begining, there is no data to use to compare. With religion, you must hvae faith in a book written 2000 years ago by man, from the word of God, but that's something many people decide not to have. We will be questioning this fo centuries to come, if we last that long, and aguing whether religion or science fits the situation better.
Post by: XeroKitsune on December 29, 2004, 01:16:00 PM
QUOTE(Baner @ Dec 28 2004, 10:56 AM)
I'm not so sure you could call being struck by lightning as having "low staticical" when comparing it to us evolving from rocks...-
Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: mrchester on December 29, 2004, 01:21:00 PM
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If God did all this in 7 days, he prob. invented BAWLS to pull all them all-nighters.
I think he must have just created the universe and set it in motion. He created physics and matter and just let them do their thing. Then hit the foward button a million or so times.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Baner on December 29, 2004, 01:52:00 PM
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Post by: mrchester on December 29, 2004, 01:21:00 PM
I think he must have just created the universe and set it in motion. He created physics and matter and just let them do their thing. Then hit the foward button a million or so times.
Post by: Baner on December 29, 2004, 01:52:00 PM
QUOTE(XeroKitsune @ Dec 29 2004, 03:47 PM)
It sounds like people needed rules and people created rules, people needed hope so people created hope, and people needed a way to discribe things they didn't understand so people created a blanket explnation.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: RcbUK on December 31, 2004, 03:20:00 PM
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For me, the terrible tradgedy that has just happened in Asia ( The Tsunami ) is pretty good proof that God doesn't exist.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Boba_Fett on December 31, 2004, 04:42:00 PM
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Post by: RcbUK on December 31, 2004, 03:20:00 PM
Post by: Boba_Fett on December 31, 2004, 04:42:00 PM
QUOTE(RcbUK @ Dec 31 2004, 11:51 PM)
For me, the terrible tradgedy that has just happened in Asia ( The Tsunami ) is pretty good proof that God doesn't exist.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Wolfblade13 on January 04, 2005, 10:34:00 AM
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Baner on January 04, 2005, 10:41:00 AM
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Read the fuckin posts dipshit.
Where the hell do you think the monkey's came from?
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: SKoT on January 04, 2005, 10:45:00 AM
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Post by: Wolfblade13 on January 04, 2005, 10:34:00 AM
QUOTE(Baner @ Dec 28 2004, 04:56 PM)
Post by: Baner on January 04, 2005, 10:41:00 AM
QUOTE
we didnt evolve from rocks....we evolved from monkeys...
Read the fuckin posts dipshit.
Where the hell do you think the monkey's came from?
Post by: SKoT on January 04, 2005, 10:45:00 AM
QUOTE(Boba_Fett @ Jan 1 2005, 01:13 AM)
Why does that prove he doesn't exist? If he stopped one tragety, he'd have to stop them all... Remember, perfection does not exist in this reality.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Baner on January 04, 2005, 10:50:00 AM
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He doesn't exsist in my reality, he is too great for me to begin to fathom. I'll never know him completely, there is too much to know, and it is too deep for the unperfect human mind. He's beyond reality. x^4 if you will.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Baner on January 04, 2005, 10:59:00 AM
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...anyway
No one has seen Heaven, and been able to tell about it. Who's to say that there isn't another Universe that was around before ours? Maybe something from that Universe created ours? We say our Universe is endless, cause we know no different.
If I told you Zukinee(sp?) was green, and you've never seen a zukinee before, would you believe me?
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Trisman on January 04, 2005, 07:02:00 PM
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If no one has seen heaven, then arent they all talking shit anyway. If no one has seen it who placed the original idea here.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: XBFNoodles on January 05, 2005, 10:25:00 AM
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Post by: Baner on January 04, 2005, 10:50:00 AM
QUOTE
how could he exist then in our reality if he is perfect?
He doesn't exsist in my reality, he is too great for me to begin to fathom. I'll never know him completely, there is too much to know, and it is too deep for the unperfect human mind. He's beyond reality. x^4 if you will.
Post by: Baner on January 04, 2005, 10:59:00 AM
...anywayQUOTE
and btw. if "god" made it, was he in heaven or something? if not, where was he? Did heaven already existed in that time?
No one has seen Heaven, and been able to tell about it. Who's to say that there isn't another Universe that was around before ours? Maybe something from that Universe created ours? We say our Universe is endless, cause we know no different.
If I told you Zukinee(sp?) was green, and you've never seen a zukinee before, would you believe me?
Post by: Trisman on January 04, 2005, 07:02:00 PM
QUOTE(Baner @ Jan 4 2005, 07:30 PM)
No one has seen Heaven, and been able to tell about it. Who's to say that there isn't another Universe that was around before ours? Maybe something from that Universe created ours? We say our Universe is endless, cause we know no different.
If I told you Zukinee(sp?) was green, and you've never seen a zukinee before, would you believe me?
If I told you Zukinee(sp?) was green, and you've never seen a zukinee before, would you believe me?
If no one has seen heaven, then arent they all talking shit anyway. If no one has seen it who placed the original idea here.
Post by: XBFNoodles on January 05, 2005, 10:25:00 AM
QUOTE(Trisman @ Jan 4 2005, 08:33 PM)
If no one has seen heaven, then arent they all talking shit anyway. If no one has seen it who placed the original idea here.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Baner on January 05, 2005, 10:38:00 AM
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)
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: SKoT on January 05, 2005, 12:30:00 PM
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Post by: Baner on January 05, 2005, 10:38:00 AM
)
Post by: SKoT on January 05, 2005, 12:30:00 PM
QUOTE(Baner @ Jan 5 2005, 07:09 PM)
We can relate the same thing to science also. That's my point. You use the fact that "no one has seen it", but have you seen a molecule? I sure as hell don't know what it looks like, nor have seen a true photo of one. Yet I believe they exsist.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Baner on January 05, 2005, 12:36:00 PM
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Just trying to get the general idea out there. What about the earth's core example? Please... disprove that.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: EverythingButAnAnswer on January 05, 2005, 12:52:00 PM
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Trisman on January 05, 2005, 04:24:00 PM
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Most of science is derived from a chain of logical reasoning, as opposed to religion which primarily consists of "some guys with wings told me this is how it is when I was sleeping."
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: XBFNoodles on January 05, 2005, 05:17:00 PM
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Post by: Baner on January 05, 2005, 12:36:00 PM
Post by: EverythingButAnAnswer on January 05, 2005, 12:52:00 PM
Post by: Trisman on January 05, 2005, 04:24:00 PM
Post by: XBFNoodles on January 05, 2005, 05:17:00 PM
QUOTE(Trisman @ Jan 5 2005, 05:55 PM)
Most of science is derived from a chain of logical reasoning, as opposed to religion which primarily consists of "some guys with wings told me this is how it is when I was sleeping."
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: SKoT on January 05, 2005, 05:44:00 PM
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Post by: SKoT on January 05, 2005, 05:44:00 PM
QUOTE(XBFNoodles @ Jan 6 2005, 01:48 AM)
Most science is logical. But I would hardly call the Big Bang Theory logical. Where did that ball of matter come from? They are so quick to tell how and why it exploded but conveniently forget to tell us how it formed or where it came from.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: XBFNoodles on January 05, 2005, 06:02:00 PM
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Post by: XBFNoodles on January 05, 2005, 06:02:00 PM
QUOTE(SKoT @ Jan 5 2005, 07:15 PM)
they are searching more and more in depth and always researching their theorys to find more evidence. Religion backs up its arguements on God's will. They constantly backpedal with what they say "is god's truth" i.e. earth being only a few thousand years old, earth being flat, etc.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: SKoT on January 05, 2005, 06:19:00 PM
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no, thats not what i mean.
Even when it proven that the world was round the vatican didnt acknowledge it until not too long ago. I meant by this point is that they will never admit they are wrong, or take a few hundred years.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: XBFNoodles on January 06, 2005, 11:30:00 AM
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Post by: SKoT on January 05, 2005, 06:19:00 PM
Even when it proven that the world was round the vatican didnt acknowledge it until not too long ago. I meant by this point is that they will never admit they are wrong, or take a few hundred years.
Post by: XBFNoodles on January 06, 2005, 11:30:00 AM
QUOTE(SKoT @ Jan 5 2005, 07:50 PM)
no, thats not what i mean.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Baner on January 06, 2005, 12:47:00 PM
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You're are absolutly correct, science is derrived from "logical" reasoning. But how did this reasoning become logical? Science is the idea of information being proven true by previous example of information that was proven true by information before that that was proven true and so on. So what if the very first set of data that this lsit of Logical reasoning was proven true from, had error? It would cause everything based off that to be proven false right?
What if we learned that gravity has a force of 9.8 m/s^2 and not 9.7(think those are the numbers)? It would create lots of error in many calculations, and make many scientists miss lots of hours of sleep.
We are taught through out all our lives that science is true, but never told why. Ask your proffessor why we know gravity travels at 9.7 m/s^2. She'll prolly respond with trail and error, or something of that sort. Then ask how we know what a m/s^2 is, and she'll say something along the lines of relating it to other data. It's a horrible string of events that can lead to the fall of science, but no one cares to take the time and find out why we are taught what we are taught.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Baner on January 06, 2005, 12:51:00 PM
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The Christianity isn't the Vatican, the Vatican is part of the religion, much like I am. Just because the Vatican didn't believe the earth was round, didn't mean every single follower of Christianity thought the same way.
Fox is a Republican Tv station, but you don't have to believe everything Fox tells you to be Republican.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: SKoT on January 06, 2005, 12:56:00 PM
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They wouldnt try to hide it. Any scientist is looking for the TRUTH, (most). many scientists believe in God as well, Not all, or even half of the Scientists I am willing to wager are atheists or agnostic.
They stick to the facts that can be measured and proven time and time again.
No credible scientist has said The big bang is the way it is, they are always looking for more evidence for it and other ways we formed, and not keeping creation out of their minds...
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Baner on January 06, 2005, 01:06:00 PM
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Do you not listen? It is proven with old science, backed up by science! We wouln't have a measurement of a meter if it weren't for science. How can you use something to prove itself? It's like me saying God exsists cause he told me, but would you believe that? No...
Isn't that also what I said above? The Vatican is only a small group, I'm sure a small group of scientists will also try to prove the Big Bang true for decades to come, even after convencing everyone else that it can't happen.
They may not be keeping out of thier minds, but they are sure as hell not using it as a source for thier studies.
For all you who believe in the Big Bang, keep in mind that science has yet to see an atom blink into exsistance, or create one. So everything you see, and everything far beyond our eye sight would have had to fit in something that we see as the worlds smallest object. ie a countless number of atoms fitting inside one atom.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: SKoT on January 06, 2005, 01:19:00 PM
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Science is a tangible thing.
I can look at it and see how it directly affects my life. I dont just rely on a multiple-thousand year old book to live my life by. I use facts, not mystical magic.
For all you Creation believers... God has never prooven his existance. Winged creaturs flew around and told people a few thousand years ago that this guy existed that created everyone, but noone knows where he came from, or refuses to look for answers. If you dont believe in him, even though you dont have any proof he exists, he will send your soul to eternal damnation to live in torture forever while you have no idea why. This mystical giant God guy also refuses to make his presence known to "find true followers". He is trying to confuse his own people.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Baner on January 06, 2005, 01:28:00 PM
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Which means he exsists?
They may not be thousands of years old, but you still listen to ideas told by Newton, Galallio(sp?), and others. You also believe in how atoms can join and split, but you've never whitnessed it. You've been told stories. Science has flaws, much like religion, yet niether of us want to admit it.
Religion is also tangible to us who believe. I've had many unexplainable things happen to me, I've felt many wierd feelings while praying. Can anyone explain these? That's what God wants, the more we want to know, the more faith we have in him.
Think it's safe to say that God has been the most influencial thing to ever happen to the earth. That's pretty amazing for something that can't be seen with the naked eye.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Trisman on January 06, 2005, 03:41:00 PM
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Actually one of the famous ancient Greeks (Archimedes I think, though im not positive) figured out that the earth was round/spherical due to it's round shadow on the moon. And a lot of other ancient cultures figured this out as well. However the church, once it had a foothold, started hording any and all acquired information, as information is power. Remember what the time when the Christian church was the dominant power in Europe was called? Does the Dark Ages ring a bell, anyone?
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: XBFNoodles on January 06, 2005, 04:18:00 PM
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Post by: Baner on January 06, 2005, 12:47:00 PM
QUOTE
Most of science is derived from a chain of logical reasoning, as opposed to religion which primarily consists of "some guys with wings told me this is how it is when I was sleeping."
You're are absolutly correct, science is derrived from "logical" reasoning. But how did this reasoning become logical? Science is the idea of information being proven true by previous example of information that was proven true by information before that that was proven true and so on. So what if the very first set of data that this lsit of Logical reasoning was proven true from, had error? It would cause everything based off that to be proven false right?
What if we learned that gravity has a force of 9.8 m/s^2 and not 9.7(think those are the numbers)? It would create lots of error in many calculations, and make many scientists miss lots of hours of sleep.
We are taught through out all our lives that science is true, but never told why. Ask your proffessor why we know gravity travels at 9.7 m/s^2. She'll prolly respond with trail and error, or something of that sort. Then ask how we know what a m/s^2 is, and she'll say something along the lines of relating it to other data. It's a horrible string of events that can lead to the fall of science, but no one cares to take the time and find out why we are taught what we are taught.
Post by: Baner on January 06, 2005, 12:51:00 PM
QUOTE
Even when it proven that the world was round the vatican didnt acknowledge it until not too long ago. I meant by this point is that they will never admit they are wrong, or take a few hundred years.
The Christianity isn't the Vatican, the Vatican is part of the religion, much like I am. Just because the Vatican didn't believe the earth was round, didn't mean every single follower of Christianity thought the same way.
Fox is a Republican Tv station, but you don't have to believe everything Fox tells you to be Republican.
Post by: SKoT on January 06, 2005, 12:56:00 PM
QUOTE
Scenario: Scientists find solid proof that the Big Bang Theory is bullshit and they find evidence of creationism somehow (I don't know how, this is made up). How long do you think it would take them to release that information? It supports their cause.
They wouldnt try to hide it. Any scientist is looking for the TRUTH, (most). many scientists believe in God as well, Not all, or even half of the Scientists I am willing to wager are atheists or agnostic.
They stick to the facts that can be measured and proven time and time again.
No credible scientist has said The big bang is the way it is, they are always looking for more evidence for it and other ways we formed, and not keeping creation out of their minds...
Post by: Baner on January 06, 2005, 01:06:00 PM
QUOTE
The problem with your arguement is, that gravity's force is a proven, well known fact. It can be tested with meters and gauges and has been MANY times.
Do you not listen? It is proven with old science, backed up by science! We wouln't have a measurement of a meter if it weren't for science. How can you use something to prove itself? It's like me saying God exsists cause he told me, but would you believe that? No...
QUOTE
im sure it wouldnt take scientists hundreds of years to say they were wrong about the Big Bang... if it were false. I have my own reasons prooving/disprooving the big bang.
Isn't that also what I said above? The Vatican is only a small group, I'm sure a small group of scientists will also try to prove the Big Bang true for decades to come, even after convencing everyone else that it can't happen.
QUOTE
No credible scientist has said The big bang is the way it is, they are always looking for more evidence for it and other ways we formed, and not keeping creation out of their minds...
They may not be keeping out of thier minds, but they are sure as hell not using it as a source for thier studies.
For all you who believe in the Big Bang, keep in mind that science has yet to see an atom blink into exsistance, or create one. So everything you see, and everything far beyond our eye sight would have had to fit in something that we see as the worlds smallest object. ie a countless number of atoms fitting inside one atom.
Post by: SKoT on January 06, 2005, 01:19:00 PM
I can look at it and see how it directly affects my life. I dont just rely on a multiple-thousand year old book to live my life by. I use facts, not mystical magic.
For all you Creation believers... God has never prooven his existance. Winged creaturs flew around and told people a few thousand years ago that this guy existed that created everyone, but noone knows where he came from, or refuses to look for answers. If you dont believe in him, even though you dont have any proof he exists, he will send your soul to eternal damnation to live in torture forever while you have no idea why. This mystical giant God guy also refuses to make his presence known to "find true followers". He is trying to confuse his own people.
Post by: Baner on January 06, 2005, 01:28:00 PM
QUOTE
He is trying to confuse his own people.
Which means he exsists?
QUOTE
I can look at it and see how it directly affects my life.
They may not be thousands of years old, but you still listen to ideas told by Newton, Galallio(sp?), and others. You also believe in how atoms can join and split, but you've never whitnessed it. You've been told stories. Science has flaws, much like religion, yet niether of us want to admit it.
QUOTE
Science is a tangible thing.
Religion is also tangible to us who believe. I've had many unexplainable things happen to me, I've felt many wierd feelings while praying. Can anyone explain these? That's what God wants, the more we want to know, the more faith we have in him.
Think it's safe to say that God has been the most influencial thing to ever happen to the earth. That's pretty amazing for something that can't be seen with the naked eye.
Post by: Trisman on January 06, 2005, 03:41:00 PM
Post by: XBFNoodles on January 06, 2005, 04:18:00 PM
QUOTE(SKoT @ Jan 6 2005, 02:50 PM)
For all you Creation believers... God has never prooven his existance. Winged creaturs flew around and told people a few thousand years ago that this guy existed that created everyone, but noone knows where he came from, or refuses to look for answers. If you dont believe in him, even though you dont have any proof he exists, he will send your soul to eternal damnation to live in torture forever while you have no idea why. This mystical giant God guy also refuses to make his presence known to "find true followers". He is trying to confuse his own people.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: SKoT on January 06, 2005, 04:29:00 PM
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well god has never spoken to me, and i have never felt him. he must hate me.
Im not going to force myself into believing something I have no proof for. Further more, lol.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: XBFNoodles on January 06, 2005, 04:49:00 PM
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Post by: SKoT on January 06, 2005, 04:29:00 PM
Im not going to force myself into believing something I have no proof for. Further more, lol.
Post by: XBFNoodles on January 06, 2005, 04:49:00 PM
QUOTE(SKoT @ Jan 6 2005, 06:00 PM)
well god has never spoken to me, and i have never felt him. he must hate me.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Trisman on January 06, 2005, 05:00:00 PM
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I'm sure SKoT is just trying to show you that your logic doesn't quite work.
Is it just me or does this sentence not quite work. How can something be tangible (ie. something that physically/electromagnetically exists in the universe) be something that we have never seen or has no mathematics behind it?
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: SKoT on January 07, 2005, 08:32:00 AM
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Baner on January 07, 2005, 11:02:00 AM
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So why is it that if Skot tries and shows me my logic is flawed, yet I do the same about science, I'm ignored?
My rebutle to that was more of a rehtorical one than anything else. You know, something that doesn't exsist telling you what to do... haha funny... laugh...
Like the inside of a blackhole right?
Skot... no need to cry about it buddy. I'm just trying to show everyone the flaws in both arguements. All I ever hear are the wrongs of religion, and the rights of science. For some reason, those woh believe so deeply in science will never apply what they've learned thru science into religion, which you have shown me many more than once in this thread.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: SKoT on January 07, 2005, 12:14:00 PM
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so if you heard a voice in your head telling you that the force of gravity was indeed 9.7 instead of 9.8 you would believe it and call all science wrong? or if you saw it in a cloud or a rainbow or during your prayers?
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Baner on January 07, 2005, 12:58:00 PM
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You might want to take some sort of religion education class(Mind went completely blank... can't even think of the name of the course...) if you're in college. Ignorance is Bliss.
Edit: Not saying that this has anything with your last post, but members of this forum are quick to twist one's word...
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: EverythingButAnAnswer on January 07, 2005, 01:16:00 PM
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: SKoT on January 07, 2005, 01:18:00 PM
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sometimes voices in your head are not god.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Wolfblade13 on January 07, 2005, 02:44:00 PM
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because almost everyone was forced to believe it, and nobody had the proof, and if you look in front of you you dont get the impression that the world is round
immediatley not everyone holds back information....
You're are absolutly correct, science is derrived from "logical" reasoning. But how did this reasoning become logical? Science is the idea of information being proven true by previous example of information that was proven true by information before that that was proven true and so on. So what if the very first set of data that this lsit of Logical reasoning was proven true from, had error? It would cause everything based off that to be proven false right?
so if scientists found proof for the creationism-thingy they would be false right? so the computer you are sitting in front off is also created/invented with sience, but it works, because it has been proven by science how and why it does, what it does. if science wasn't here and if logic, was made up, we were still living in the stone age listening to wicked shaman doctors calling themselves "scientists"
the gravity has different forces depending on things (i dont know what i believe the height...but whatever) it IS 9.8 m/s2 here...
it also works for everyone, not only the believers in science. It doesnt matter if a scientist looks at a meter or someone else, the meter still works.
yes but the vatican has alot of power...a small group of scientists doesnt.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: XBFNoodles on January 08, 2005, 04:47:00 PM
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: TUPACneverdies on January 08, 2005, 10:01:00 PM
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god is a golf club....think about it.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: ..[[ModBoxMaster]].. on January 15, 2005, 06:22:00 PM
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http://people.howstu...clear-bomb1.htm
How nukes work, of course splitting of multiple atoms....
you know US wouldn't be a super power if it wasan't for nukes.... which i am proud to
say that nukes are your friend.
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Title: A Few Of My Views
Post by: Wattman on January 20, 2005, 12:10:00 AM
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You people who say that science is essentially bullshit are either ignorant 12 year olds or uneducated adults . Everything in science and logic is tied to math. Every single science equation and a piece of logic can be traced all the way back to the math equation 1=1. If you are saying what 1 isn't equal to itself then I don't know what to say. And if you think that black holes don't follow logic, try reading a book that deals with the 10th dimension or black holes. If you can't understand what is being said in the book please don't pretend that you know science and logic.
Post by: Trisman on January 06, 2005, 05:00:00 PM
QUOTE
QUOTE
He is trying to confuse his own people.
Which means he exsists?QUOTE
Religion is also tangible to us who believe.
Is it just me or does this sentence not quite work. How can something be tangible (ie. something that physically/electromagnetically exists in the universe) be something that we have never seen or has no mathematics behind it?
Post by: SKoT on January 07, 2005, 08:32:00 AM
Quote from: Trisman,Jan 7 2005, 01:31 AM
Post by: Baner on January 07, 2005, 11:02:00 AM
QUOTE
I'm sure SKoT is just trying to show you that your logic doesn't quite work.
So why is it that if Skot tries and shows me my logic is flawed, yet I do the same about science, I'm ignored?
My rebutle to that was more of a rehtorical one than anything else. You know, something that doesn't exsist telling you what to do... haha funny... laugh...
QUOTE
be something that we have never seen or has no mathematics behind it?
Like the inside of a blackhole right?
Skot... no need to cry about it buddy. I'm just trying to show everyone the flaws in both arguements. All I ever hear are the wrongs of religion, and the rights of science. For some reason, those woh believe so deeply in science will never apply what they've learned thru science into religion, which you have shown me many more than once in this thread.
Post by: SKoT on January 07, 2005, 12:14:00 PM
Post by: Baner on January 07, 2005, 12:58:00 PM
You might want to take some sort of religion education class(Mind went completely blank... can't even think of the name of the course...) if you're in college. Ignorance is Bliss.
Edit: Not saying that this has anything with your last post, but members of this forum are quick to twist one's word...
Post by: EverythingButAnAnswer on January 07, 2005, 01:16:00 PM
Post by: SKoT on January 07, 2005, 01:18:00 PM
Post by: Wolfblade13 on January 07, 2005, 02:44:00 PM
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It wasn't JUST Christians that thought the world was flat. Almost everyone did. Don't generalize the Christians please.
because almost everyone was forced to believe it, and nobody had the proof, and if you look in front of you you dont get the impression that the world is round
QUOTE
Scenario: Scientists find solid proof that the Big Bang Theory is bullshit and they find evidence of creationism somehow (I don't know how, this is made up). How long do you think it would take them to release that information? It supports their cause.
immediatley not everyone holds back information....
QUOTE
QUOTE
You're are absolutly correct, science is derrived from "logical" reasonin
so if scientists found proof for the creationism-thingy they would be false right? so the computer you are sitting in front off is also created/invented with sience, but it works, because it has been proven by science how and why it does, what it does. if science wasn't here and if logic, was made up, we were still living in the stone age listening to wicked shaman doctors calling themselves "scientists"
QUOTE
What if we learned that gravity has a force of 9.8 m/s^2 and not 9.7(think those are the numbers)? It would create lots of error in many calculations, and make many scientists miss lots of hours of sleep.
the gravity has different forces depending on things (i dont know what i believe the height...but whatever) it IS 9.8 m/s2 here...
QUOTE
Do you not listen? It is proven with old science, backed up by science! We wouln't have a measurement of a meter if it weren't for science. How can you use something to prove itself? It's like me saying God exsists cause he told me, but would you believe that? No...
it also works for everyone, not only the believers in science. It doesnt matter if a scientist looks at a meter or someone else, the meter still works.
QUOTE
Isn't that also what I said above? The Vatican is only a small group, I'm sure a small group of scientists will also try to prove the Big Bang true for decades to come, even after convencing everyone else that it can't happen.
yes but the vatican has alot of power...a small group of scientists doesnt.
Post by: XBFNoodles on January 08, 2005, 04:47:00 PM
Quote from: SKoT,Jan 7 2005, 10:03 AM
Post by: TUPACneverdies on January 08, 2005, 10:01:00 PM
Post by: ..[[ModBoxMaster]].. on January 15, 2005, 06:22:00 PM
How nukes work, of course splitting of multiple atoms....
you know US wouldn't be a super power if it wasan't for nukes.... which i am proud to
say that nukes are your friend.
Post by: Wattman on January 20, 2005, 12:10:00 AM