Post by: muerte on May 19, 2004, 10:46:00 AM
| QUOTE (nagmine @ May 19 2004, 01:38 PM) |
| I saw this on yahoo news read here http://news.yahoo.co...a/iraq_attack_6 I tell u one thing Im certainly not very proud of america at this moment. I understand that they may have shot becuase they thought the gunfire was hostile but damn dont u think after they shot off one round off that helicopter they contuined to shoot for the wedding? no, think of all those women and children its a shame .  think of the husband and wife who got marryed ,family and friends killed right in front of them  |
If I shot rounds into the air in a public place... I'd expect to be killed as well. They should have been much more cautious, even if it is a tradition. Times are changing. Know that you shouldn't fire a gun into the air, especially since those "evil" American soldiers are keeping a watchout for any sort of gun fire.
Post by: melon on May 19, 2004, 11:37:00 AM
Post by: nemt on May 19, 2004, 11:41:00 AM
Perhaps also, if hostile fire didn't so often come from mosques and other religious buildings, soldiers would be less likely to react so harshly to celebratory gunfire.
Post by: melon on May 19, 2004, 11:50:00 AM
Post by: nemt on May 19, 2004, 11:54:00 AM
| QUOTE (melon @ May 19 2004, 03:50 PM) |
| so what do you want the 10 men with rifles who are validly defending there country to do, attack our troops in the open? They would last about 5s |
Is english your first language? Because if it is, I'm really glad I didn't go to the same school you did.
The "ten men with rifles" aren't validly defending anything but radical islamist ideaology, which is not widely supported by the Iraqi people, or even Saddam's former regime. Just to play ball with you, are mosques the only cover combatants can take in a city? Is it just a mosque in a giant open field? No, they choose to fire from mosques specifically, it has nothing to do with protection.
Post by: melon on May 19, 2004, 12:14:00 PM
So they are not allowed to defend there country from an invading force?
They dont fire just from mosques, they choose tactical positions.
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on May 19, 2004, 12:21:00 PM
| QUOTE (melon @ May 19 2004, 03:14 PM) |
| They dont fire just from mosques, they choose tactical positions. |
sure they do...
if anyone EVER sees me fire a gun into the air at a wedding... PLEASE... blow my frickin' head off!
they knew better and if they didn't then we have 40 less retards in the world...
natural selection... survival of the fittest...
Post by: melon on May 19, 2004, 12:29:00 PM
What about the 21 gun salute?
Isnt that a custom?
You shouldnt be so ignorant to other peoples beliefs.
Are you one of those select Americans who feels they are better than everyone else?
Post by: BloodyMary on May 19, 2004, 12:34:00 PM
With the situation over there,
what the fuck are people doing getting married?
Post by: rms2001 on May 19, 2004, 12:37:00 PM
| QUOTE (nagmine @ May 19 2004, 12:38 PM) |
| I tell u one thing Im certainly not very proud of america at this moment. I understand that they may have shot becuase they thought the gunfire was hostile but damn dont u think after they shot off one round off that helicopter they contuined to shoot for the wedding? no, think of all those women and children its a shame . think of the husband and wife who got marryed ,family and friends killed right in front of them |
Fuck'em. Fuck Iraq and every one in it. That 40 less rag heads we won't have to kill later.
Call it getting even for killing Nick Berg.
Post by: melon on May 19, 2004, 12:39:00 PM
Post by: BloodyMary on May 19, 2004, 01:02:00 PM
| QUOTE (rms2001 @ May 19 2004, 04:37 PM) |
| Fuck'em. Fuck Iraq and every one in it. That 40 less rag heads we won't have to kill later. Call it getting even for killing Nick Berg. |
Are you being sarcastic, or are you just evil?
Look, this may turn out to have been Iraqi or foreign fighters, shooting at the Military. I mean... a 3 a.m. wedding??? and so close the the Syrian border???
I don't believe it was a wedding party... but if it was... it was a terrible travesty...
EDIT: btw, there are people that believe the the US government ordered Nick Berg murdered by Russian mercenaries.. and there are those (myself included) that believe the Nick Berg was murdered by non Iraqi Al Queda terrorists, but I don't think anyone really believes that Nick Berg was murdered by Iraqis...
Post by: rms2001 on May 19, 2004, 01:21:00 PM
| QUOTE (BloodyMary @ May 19 2004, 03:02 PM) |
| Are you being sarcastic, or are you just evil? |
No I wasn't being sarcastic. I can really care less about what happens to the people of Iraq and every one else in the Middle East. They all grow up to be terrorists, bomb cities, start wars.
So as I said, thats 40 less rag heads we have to kill later. Want to call me evil so be it. They have been fighting with each other for 2,000 years and keep dragging people into it.
Post by: Banj on May 19, 2004, 01:30:00 PM
Post by: melon on May 19, 2004, 01:33:00 PM
Post by: muerte on May 19, 2004, 01:55:00 PM
| QUOTE (Banj @ May 19 2004, 04:30 PM) |
| Educated, compassionate, informed, tolerent, socially aware, human. Are these just words to you RMS? It is thinking like yours, i.e. ignorant, that has the world boiling over in a couldren of dogshit. Please keep your knee-jerk, moronic crowd-pleasers to yourself, you are only fuelling the arguments against what you champion. |
I agree, but back on topic. I still don't see any reason why you'd shoot into the air when you know you're in a dangerous part of an occupied country. Please
Post by: rms2001 on May 19, 2004, 02:06:00 PM
Now, assuming I even cared about Iraq I mite be angry at my government. But since Iraq dose not want us there any way, I say we should come home now. They blow up cars, shoot US military personnel. Sure, they shoot back and get a few of them.
You shoot into the air in the middle of the night, thats going to bring some one else with bigger guns. And I find it hard to believe it was a wedding any way. Just a bunch of terrorists in the middle of no where having a meeting on how to kill more people.
We did the world a favorer and possibly saved more lives than what was taken.
Post by: CHRONOSTORM on May 19, 2004, 02:36:00 PM
| QUOTE (rms2001 @ May 19 2004, 09:37 PM) |
| Fuck'em. Fuck Iraq and every one in it. That 40 less rag heads we won't have to kill later. Call it getting even for killing Nick Berg. |
note A reason 9/11 happened
i dont like them but i dont think we should mow them down with a chain gun
Post by: rms2001 on May 19, 2004, 02:47:00 PM
| QUOTE (CHRONOSTORM @ May 19 2004, 04:36 PM) |
| note A reason 9/11 happened i dont like them but i dont think we should mow them down with a chain gun |
What do you want to do with them than? Put them in prison so they can live with three meals a day, have a roof over their heads, get a college education, watch TV, have a full weight room, and all at the expense of us the tax payers? They have it better in prison than on the out side.
Post by: nemt on May 19, 2004, 02:59:00 PM
http://story.news.ya...s_nm/iraq_dc_15
Post by: ViNCe_V on May 19, 2004, 03:01:00 PM
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 19, 2004, 04:26:00 PM
Post by: Banj on May 19, 2004, 11:52:00 PM
America is NOT the big brother of the world, what has happened in the Middle East is nothing short of invasion and it was conducted illegally. So, although all you 'good ole boys' want to dance round the camp fire shouting 'yaah hoo, shot me a rag-head', you are only proving to everyone else in the world what the situation actually is.
40 people being killed under any circumstance is a tradgedy, I don't see that it being wartime makes peoples lives less valuable.
Just out of curiosity, what's the approx. percentage in America for support of the occupation?
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on May 20, 2004, 01:26:00 AM
Post by: rms2001 on May 20, 2004, 01:33:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| it was conducted illegally |
Man you want to brake out and share what it is your smoking? How can you say marching into Iraq, and kicking the leader out of power is illegal? If I were up to me I wouldn't even give Iraq back. It would be the 51th state of the US.
Its BS the USA gos to war, bombs the shit outa X country, says "Oh we are so sorry, heres a few billion dollars to rebuild your 3rd country. Oh and by the way, we will be gone in 30 days, so you all can go back to being terrorists again. Bomb ya again in ten years and cut ya another check."
A few billion of my tax money. And I didnt even want my damn government to go fight a bunch of extremists out in the sand. I can think of a few things a few billion dollars could do to help things right here. Fix the problems here first, than go help the rest of the world.
If any thing is illgeal it should be giving Iraq back. The US took it, they should keep it.
Post by: gronne on May 20, 2004, 01:36:00 AM
| QUOTE |
How can you say marching into Iraq, and kicking the leader out of power is illegal? |
It was condemned by the UN. USA were never authorizised by the UN to invade Iraq. Therefore it's illegal. USA creates the terrorists, don't you realize that? I bet you a lot more people want to kill americans nowadays. I'm not one of them, but I can certainly see WHY they want to kill you.
Post by: rms2001 on May 20, 2004, 01:55:00 AM
Had some high school punk call me a terrorist b/c I owned an AK-47, drove an SUV and didn't like rap music. So Im a terrorist b/c I can care less about a country full of terrorists? Fine.
Iraq is not my problem; I didn't want the US to go to war, so I can really care less about what happens. Okay, so 40 terrorists lost their lives, good. Saved the lives of 400 people on the next train they were planning on blowing up.
Post by: self on May 20, 2004, 02:12:00 AM
| QUOTE (rms2001 @ May 20 2004, 09:55 AM) |
| Well you wouldn't be the first one to call me a terrorist. Had some high school punk call me a terrorist b/c I owned an AK-47, drove an SUV and didn't like rap music. So I?m a terrorist b/c I can care less about a country full of terrorists? Fine. Iraq is not my problem; I didn't want the US to go to war, so I can really care less about what happens. Okay, so 40 terrorists lost their lives, good. Saved the lives of 400 people on the next train they were planning on blowing up. |
What everyone else in this forum has understood is that Iraq is not a country full of terrorists, but a country full of people. People like the ones you meet everyday. Like your friends and family.
It's so basic that I don't even know how to explain it to you.
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 20, 2004, 02:25:00 AM
edit, self, i know what you mean, meaning that the insurgents killing us are not terrorists, there iraqi people that dont want us here (and if there terrorists, so was George washington, and all the revolutionary fighters, which meant america was founded by terrorists)
Post by: jbp20717 on May 20, 2004, 02:49:00 AM
Amerian ignorance also caused the death of Italians in a ski-lift when a jet was flown into it a few years ago - the American soldiers seem to act as if using weaponry is a videogame where the life of others doesn't mean anything.
Post by: BloodyMary on May 20, 2004, 03:52:00 AM
| QUOTE (jbp20717 @ May 20 2004, 06:49 AM) |
| The fact is that American soldiers are trigger-happy twats who'll shoot at anything that moves. They should have learned from what had happened in Afghanistan - wedding, shotgun fire, bombing, about 40 people killed (sounds simliar) - but they don't give a shit about the local population. Not only that, but they fire on their own allies without thinking twice - most of the British casualties in Iraq before the toppling of Saddam were through American "friendly fire", the same happened in Afghanistan, where Canadian soldiers were killed by Americans. Amerian ignorance also caused the death of Italians in a ski-lift when a jet was flown into it a few years ago - the American soldiers seem to act as if using weaponry is a videogame where the life of others doesn't mean anything. |
Certainly (like in any military in the world), there are people that are under trained, unprepared and/or 'trigger-happy twats'. This doesn't apply to entire American military, not even the majority, it's a very small portion. If any other nation had nearly the number of troops and equipment over there that we have... they would have a few (and I do mean a few) making the same mistakes/errors/whatever you want to call it, that a few of our troops are making.
BTW... since I'm an American... and you want to suggest that we are all ignorant...
quoting jbp20717
| QUOTE |
| Amerian ignorance |
Here's a big FUCK YOU ASSHOLE
Post by: jbp20717 on May 20, 2004, 04:17:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| FUCK YOU ASSHOLE |
Post by: BloodyMary on May 20, 2004, 04:24:00 AM
| QUOTE (jbp20717 @ May 20 2004, 08:17 AM) |
| Of course I'm not suggesting that in a country of 270 million people, everyone is ignorant, and maybe if more time was spent on training instead of equipment, then this sort of thing wouldn't happen. Having said that, of the 270 million people, you would seem to be one of the ignorant ones if the best comments you can come up with are: |
Hey.. just because you are too stupid to know what
| QUOTE |
| FUCK YOU ASSHOLE |
means, it doesn't make me ignorant...
I chose my choice of words, based on that
it was much easier to say FUCK YOU ASSHOLE
to you then the try to explain reality
to a moron like yourself that wouldn't understand it anyway...
SO, like I said before, FUCK YOU ASSHOLE...
There's my 'random dick flexing' for the day... enjoy...
Post by: nemt on May 20, 2004, 04:32:00 AM
| QUOTE (Iraqi "Civilians") |
Hey Abdul Mohamed Mohamed, let's have that wedding party at 3:00am right next to the Syrian border in a suspected militant safehouse during a religious uprising in an occupied country. Oh, and check it out, we can shoot our rifles into the air to celebrate! |
Iraq mourns, the gene pool lets out a deep sigh of relief.
Post by: nemt on May 20, 2004, 06:18:00 AM
Post by: baturkin17 on May 20, 2004, 06:19:00 AM
Post by: HydroBob on May 20, 2004, 06:31:00 AM
| QUOTE (rms2001 @ May 19 2004, 10:21 PM) |
| No I wasn't being sarcastic. I can really care less about what happens to the people of Iraq and every one else in the Middle East. They all grow up to be terrorists, bomb cities, start wars. So as I said, thats 40 less rag heads we have to kill later. Want to call me evil so be it. They have been fighting with each other for 2,000 years and keep dragging people into it. |
Hmm, I used to live in the Middle East, Iraq too. Don't tell me I'm a terrorist, you deserve an ass kicking.
I think you should shut the fuck up, you racist bastard. Do you have no sympathy for the people who have died? Perhaps we should send you to Iraq, you wouldn't last a day. You'd be under gunfire within 10 sec.
Post by: HydroBob on May 20, 2004, 06:34:00 AM
| QUOTE (rms2001 @ May 20 2004, 10:55 AM) |
| Well you wouldn't be the first one to call me a terrorist. Had some high school punk call me a terrorist b/c I owned an AK-47, drove an SUV and didn't like rap music. So Im a terrorist b/c I can care less about a country full of terrorists? Fine. Iraq is not my problem; I didn't want the US to go to war, so I can really care less about what happens. Okay, so 40 terrorists lost their lives, good. Saved the lives of 400 people on the next train they were planning on blowing up. |
OH shit. The world is fucked. I'd be happier not reading this topic.
Unbelievable.
Post by: nemt on May 20, 2004, 06:35:00 AM
| QUOTE (HydroBob @ May 20 2004, 10:31 AM) |
| I think you should shut the fuck up, you racist bastard. Perhaps we should send you to Iraq, you wouldn't last a day. You'd be under gunfire within 10 sec. |
You appear to be the racist one. Not all of Iraq is a hotbed of gunfire, most of it is safer for americans than many american cities.
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 20, 2004, 11:29:00 AM
Post by: HeLiuM on May 20, 2004, 01:18:00 PM
| QUOTE (nemt @ May 20 2004, 03:18 PM) |
| I don't care what their traditions are, common sense should displace it. It has still yet to be proven these were in fact all civilians, anyway. |
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Oh that's right.. only applies to Americans. Some equality.
Common sense? This is a tradition, they've done it for years and never before had american helicopters descended on them with an objection disguised as a hail of gunfire. Common sense would tell that american helicopter to investigate, not "return fire" on the bride groom and audience. They should've been aware of the area traditions involving guns for celebration, american's do it too (If our soldiers fired off a volley for a fallen comrade, and an iraqi "returned fire", would we be blaming the soldiers lack of common sense?)
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 20, 2004, 01:43:00 PM
*end of sarcasm*
Post by: HydroBob on May 20, 2004, 01:51:00 PM
| QUOTE (nemt @ May 20 2004, 03:35 PM) |
| You appear to be the racist one. Not all of Iraq is a hotbed of gunfire, most of it is safer for americans than many american cities. |
Racist? No. Stereotypical? Maybe. But there's no denying that if an American is spotted the will be hail of gunfire. Let's get to the point, just because someone fired some shots in the air, it doesn't mean they have to gun down 40 people. No way. Like avarden, just some pilots getting trigger happy. If you have a gun, you will be shot, that's not right, even if they are a threat. Does no one realize this is a LIFE. What if the people shot were your mom and dad? Would you feel the same? No. You'd be angry, and so are they, so put yourselves in their shoes. These people don't think evil. Most of them just want to have a good family, provide for their kids and live like us, but they cant. They are forced to fight for their country, just like the US would. The US has no right to march into iraq and just take control, even if it's for the best. Innocent people are being killed, why can't you process that, children younger than 12 are being shot, can you not see the wrong in that? This is so frustrating for me, the US soldiers have sexually abused prisoners and what, iraq gets a 'sorry'? I garentuee you that most of the US soldiers shoot just for the fun of it, some of the soldiers are racist and there's no denying. I've seen videos, hard proof, of US soldiers saying that once they kill someone it's not satisfying enough, and have to kill another, innocent or not. There's something wrong in Iraq, the US.
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 20, 2004, 01:55:00 PM
Post by: HydroBob on May 20, 2004, 02:38:00 PM
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 20, 2004, 02:40:00 PM
Post by: HydroBob on May 20, 2004, 02:41:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| but hey, we killed civilians in vietnam, so lets do it again |
I hope you were being sarcastic
Post by: nemt on May 20, 2004, 02:59:00 PM
| QUOTE (HydroBob @ May 20 2004, 06:41 PM) |
| Keep in mind, what if the next family was yours. I can't stand seeing children shot. |
Then don't fire your rifle into the air when helicopters are patrolling the area.
Post by: HydroBob on May 20, 2004, 03:01:00 PM
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 20, 2004, 03:03:00 PM
smiley face under it, sorry for any confusionand nemt, your an idiot, why should the coountries civilians change there lives and ways of living thier culture for an occupying force? why cant the use look out for civilians doign what they also do for tradition??
Post by: HydroBob on May 20, 2004, 03:11:00 PM
Are the Iraqis ignorant for firing a weapon as a tradition, or were the helicopter pilots ignorant for not recognizing the shots were aimed nowhere near them, and not recognizing the celebration?
Post by: nemt on May 20, 2004, 03:14:00 PM
| QUOTE (HydroBob @ May 20 2004, 07:11 PM) |
| Are the Iraqis ignorant for firing a weapon as a tradition, or were the helicopter pilots ignorant for not recognizing the shots were aimed nowhere near them, and not recognizing the celebration? |
They're ignorant for firing their weapons as part of their tradition, yes. It's been said before, when you're being occupied by a force used to being shot at from civilian areas, and religious areas, it shows a profound lack of common sense on the Iraqis' part, if they are in fact, civilians - which has still yet to have been established.
Post by: Cyphix on May 20, 2004, 03:21:00 PM
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 20, 2004, 03:24:00 PM
if your in a helicopter and have huge firepower at your finger tips, you should know the difference between gun fire and missile fire
wait wait, i remember in somalia it was just citizens shooting us and firing from buildings, but they only shot if shot directly upon, because i guess back then the army had common sense
and nemt, you should just stop talking, as your being an ignorant bastard now
"well since we took there country, they cant practice thier traditions or else we'll ass rape em"
Post by: HydroBob on May 20, 2004, 03:29:00 PM
Post by: nemt on May 20, 2004, 03:36:00 PM
| QUOTE (HydroBob @ May 20 2004, 07:29 PM) |
| I know exactly how weddings are in Iraq, my relitives in Iran (close enough) have sent back videos of my aunts wedding, and their often in very well lit areas, everyone is dressed up and theres music, HOW is this persieved as enemy fire, I'd like to know. |
Well lets look at the possibilities:
1: The soldiers are true evil with no value on human life, and fired on obvious civilians expected no one to find out, during a time when American military personell are being court marshalled for nonviolent "offenses."
2: The soldiers observed suspicious activity in a suspected enemy safehouse, and responded well within the rules of engagement.
Which seems more logical to you?
Post by: HydroBob on May 20, 2004, 03:39:00 PM
3. Pure ignorance.
Post by: nemt on May 20, 2004, 03:43:00 PM
| QUOTE (HydroBob @ May 20 2004, 07:39 PM) |
| None of the above. 3. Pure ignorance. |
I don't think it's news to anyone, anywhere, arabs customarily fire weapons at celebrations, what makes you think highly trained soldiers wouldn't realize this?
You're too quick to condemn, and you're biased.
Post by: nemt on May 20, 2004, 03:51:00 PM
| QUOTE (HeLiuM @ May 20 2004, 07:47 PM) |
| he's quick to condemn? Tell that to the 40 wedding attenders that you feel may or may not have been resistance forces. Oh, they're dead. Maybe those soldiers should've investigated a bit more, not been so quick to condemn. Love your 2 options by the way, the soldiers are evil or they are perfect. Perfect Bush mentality (you're with us or the terrorists). And you call anyone biased? Now that is what I call close minded. |
Prove they were all wedding attenders. Prove they weren't in a militant safehouse. Then when you're done with that, you're still left with extremely poor judgement and a total lack of common sense on the Iraqi part.
Post by: HeLiuM on May 20, 2004, 04:00:00 PM
| QUOTE (nemt @ May 21 2004, 12:51 AM) |
| Prove they were all wedding attenders. Prove they weren't in a militant safehouse. Then when you're done with that, you're still left with extremely poor judgement and a total lack of common sense on the Iraqi part. |
I don't have the burden of proof, those american forces did, and they failed to provide it. I don't know you're really not a terrorist, should I shoot you if i see you shoot at what could very well be a deer in a hunting zone? (A place where it is very normal to see someone shoot a rifle, much like it's very normal to see guns fired into the air to celebrate in Iraq). You didn't deny your shoot first ask questions later mentality, so are we to assume that is indeed your belief? You can't blame them for something that has been for long a part of their tradition.
You even say that you're sure those soldiers knew about the tradition. That's even worse, that they knew it could've been a celebration yet opened fire without adequate investigation anyway (You're so sure they were in the right, well then why isn't the rest of the military? Do you know something they don't?)
So prove you aren't a terrorist, prove you don't make bombs in your basement. Of course, do all this after you've been mowed down by a helicopter. Lot of good it will do you now.
They had a lack of common sense? A group of iraqis, some firing automatic weapons into the air. Iraqis often celebrate by firing automatic weapons in the air. They must be terrorists. Sounds like common sense to me.
Post by: nemt on May 20, 2004, 04:02:00 PM
They were either terrorists or idiots, either way, I'm glad they're dead. There you have it, nice and blunt for you, and there's no way around it.
Post by: HeLiuM on May 20, 2004, 04:18:00 PM
| QUOTE (nemt @ May 21 2004, 01:02 AM) |
| I wouldn't be out hunting if I were in an occupied country where occupation forces are often attacked from hunting areas. They were either terrorists or idiots, either way, I'm glad they're dead. There you have it, nice and blunt for you, and there's no way around it. |
Congratulations, you've lost any tiny shred of respect you may have had. If there was an ignore list, you'd be on it.
Iraqis should just hide inside until we're out of their country right? That is, until they get hit by a stray cluster bomb. What's Americas number 1 reason behind any one of its actions? "Preserving our way of life." Well that's a hell of a job we're doing preserving Iraqi way of life. Guess it only works one way. You're glad those civilians are dead? Yeah, and they're the terrorists...
Ignorance.
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 20, 2004, 04:20:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| I wouldn't be out hunting if I were in an occupied country where occupation forces are often attacked from hunting areas. They were either terrorists or idiots, either way, I'm glad they're dead. There you have it, nice and blunt for you, and there's no way around it. |
often attacked from hunting areas? wtf are you talking about, your an idiot, plain and simple
im glad that your glad those iraqi's are dead. im glad timothy mcveigh blew up the oklahoma city building becuase he thought everyone in that building was hurting american rights
jesus christ, you are an idiot nemt
Post by: HydroBob on May 20, 2004, 05:29:00 PM
Man oh man...
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 20, 2004, 06:06:00 PM
Post by: glnwst on May 20, 2004, 09:38:00 PM
If you were in an american soldiers shoes what would you do? Hmm... wait and look to make sure the gunfires not a threat... or shoot back.
If youre american and sticking up for them I hope that theres a draft and you're bitch ass has to fight for the freedom you enjoy every day. Hopefully you get mowed down by an iraqis gunfire.
Post by: Banj on May 21, 2004, 12:35:00 AM
The fact that the US troops are there illigally in the first place concerns me more than anything but more than this, all these terrible things that are happening, 40 killed at 'wedding' party, Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg execusions, Iraqi prisoners pissed on and humiliated etc... all these things are done in OUR name. We elected our leaders into power so when they fail to find nonviolent solutions to the worlds problems it is our perogative to change the leaders.
It is everyones responsibility to respect and champion human life. I understand that the right-wings blood is boiling over with the events of the past 4 years and all the attrocities that are carried out against you, however, you need to see the bigger picture. Agression only leads to agression, it is an ever decreasing circle with only one logical conclusion and nobody wants that.
Please, please, everybody just think about what is happening. Forget your alligence. We are all a part of the same species and only our voices can stop what is happening.
Post by: HeLiuM on May 21, 2004, 01:58:00 AM
| QUOTE (glnwst @ May 21 2004, 06:38 AM) |
| Ok... either all the people arguing for the iraqis are either canadian bitches or ignorant. If you were in an american soldiers shoes what would you do? Hmm... wait and look to make sure the gunfires not a threat... or shoot back. If youre american and sticking up for them I hope that theres a draft and you're bitch ass has to fight for the freedom you enjoy every day. Hopefully you get mowed down by an iraqis gunfire. |
love how you say "canadian bitches" and then call everyone ignorant. We're ignorant for defending iraqis having a wedding? What the hell makes their life so unvaluable? Those soldiers shouldn't be over there in the first place, and if they are going to be over there they sure as hell shouldn't be massacring the populace. How did this protect anyones freedom? I don't think they intentially shot at a wedding, but manslaughter is a crime here. Why should it be any different just because iraqi civilians are dying instead of americans?
As for your question, I'd wait and look to make sure the gunfires not a threat. This is a common Iraqi custom, the soldiers should be aware of it, and if they are (even nemt thinks they were) they should be more careful about what they label a threat. America failed those soldiers much more than any of those soldiers failed America by putting them over there to begin with, this is just further evidence that this war shouldn't exist.
Post by: melon on May 21, 2004, 02:15:00 AM
Now I just get amusment from making fun of nemt (the lowest of these people).
I know we have the power to change our leaders but who would you want in power? Tony Blair or Michael Howard?
Blair is the lesser of two evils.
Post by: Banj on May 21, 2004, 02:25:00 AM
Post by: melon on May 21, 2004, 02:42:00 AM
If you have an idea involving niether Blair (presuming he doesnt stand down), or Howard bieng elected i would like to hear it. I just think democracy died a long time ago, akthough i will never give up hope.
Post by: BloodyMary on May 21, 2004, 03:30:00 AM
| QUOTE (67thRaptorBull @ May 20 2004, 03:29 PM) |
| and BloodyMary, an army like china or north korea were there are over a million (in chinas case, 2 million) would never do something like that, or act trigger happy, because if they did, theyd be shot thats discipline for ya |
And you know this, because you've been a member of such said army and been shot for making such a mistake... or did you just pull that out of your ass...
Certainly, until you can bring up some proof of this in recent (like last 10 years) history, this I'm not buying it...
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 21, 2004, 04:51:00 AM
| QUOTE (glnwst @ May 21 2004, 12:38 AM) |
| Ok... either all the people arguing for the iraqis are either canadian bitches or ignorant. If you were in an american soldiers shoes what would you do? Hmm... wait and look to make sure the gunfires not a threat... or shoot back. If youre american and sticking up for them I hope that theres a draft and you're bitch ass has to fight for the freedom you enjoy every day. Hopefully you get mowed down by an iraqis gunfire. |
wow, like i said in another thread, stop sniffing glue
and bloodymarry, its self evident when you watch the videos of all of NK's troops marching through the fucking streets, same with china
thats all those countries do is build up, train and discipline thier army, where do you think all of NK's money goes?
like i said, thier more disciplined then us and they have 4X's as many people
Post by: BloodyMary on May 21, 2004, 06:02:00 AM
| QUOTE (67thRaptorBull @ May 21 2004, 08:51 AM) |
| and bloodymarry, its self evident when you watch the videos of all of NK's troops marching through the fucking streets, same with china thats all those countries do is build up, train and discipline thier army, where do you think all of NK's money goes? like i said, thier more disciplined then us and they have 4X's as many people |
Well.. you still have provided no evidence for you statement
| QUOTE |
| an army like china or north korea were there are over a million (in chinas case, 2 million) would never do something like that, or act trigger happy, because if they did, theyd be shot |
I'll take it, that it's a false piece a shit statement pulled out of the air... until if and when you provide evidence...
and your statement above...
North Korea has 4X as many people as the US... I'd like you to provide some concrete evidence of that as well.. once again.. I believe you are pulling shit out of your ass....
Post by: Ween311 on May 22, 2004, 11:51:00 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2...main/index.html
No evidence of children or wedding activity at location.
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 22, 2004, 12:21:00 PM
as you can read in an american history book, the north koreans have around 1 million in thier army, and the reason why there citizens have nothing (because there communist) is because all the money goes into thier army
and evidence? i told you, thier discipline is self evident, just like the japanese (tell me if you would charge at the enemy with just a sword or if you would take a plan with just enough fuel to either run into a ship or crash on your way back from failure)
Post by: HeLiuM on May 22, 2004, 08:16:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Lt. Col. Dan Williams, a U.S. military spokesman, said the military was investigating. "I cannot comment on this because we have not received any reports from our units that this has happened nor that any were involved in such a tragedy," Williams wrote in an e-mail in response to a question from The Associated Press. |
The military spokesperson had no knowledge of the situation. Says alot about US priorities (involving US civilians in their business isn't one of them. Some democracy)
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Title: Americans Kill 40 At Wedding In Iraq
Post by: Banj on May 23, 2004, 05:36:00 AM
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I find it unbelievable that there are pro/con arguments to 40 people being killed. Killing people is wrong, where is the debate? War does not make murder acceptable, it's used as a blanket 'get-out of jail free' card for all manner of terrible things. Some of you seem to applaud when Iraqi's are killed, and then become enraged when an American is killed, are you really that fucking ignorant? I don't believe there is a single problem in the world that cannot be solved with diplomacy, tolerance, compromise and most importantly communication. All blood spilt in this current situation is on the hands of everyone who does nothing to resolve it.
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Title: Americans Kill 40 At Wedding In Iraq
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 23, 2004, 06:21:00 AM
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Post by: Banj on May 23, 2004, 05:36:00 AM
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 23, 2004, 06:21:00 AM
| QUOTE (Banj @ May 23 2004, 08:36 AM) |
| I find it unbelievable that there are pro/con arguments to 40 people being killed. Killing people is wrong, where is the debate? War does not make murder acceptable, it's used as a blanket 'get-out of jail free' card for all manner of terrible things. Some of you seem to applaud when Iraqi's are killed, and then become enraged when an American is killed, are you really that fucking ignorant? I don't believe there is a single problem in the world that cannot be solved with diplomacy, tolerance, compromise and most importantly communication. All blood spilt in this current situation is on the hands of everyone who does nothing to resolve it. |
jesus christ, banj, you couldnt have put it any better, and im being serious not sarcastic
like ive been saying, americans feel there worth more in terms of human life (just like killing a cop is worse then killing a civilian, that doesnt make much sense)
Post by: HydroBob on May 23, 2004, 06:54:00 AM
"We fired upon him because he had a fork in his hand, to our knowledge he had plans to kill us with it. He had also recruited his wife and children, from what I could see they were threatening a bowl full of carrot soup. The carrot soup did not respond so they reacted by devouring it. This is why we moved in, we did the right thing." - Typical US soldier (exagerated)
Post by: DasHelghast on May 23, 2004, 03:43:00 PM
| QUOTE (Colonel32 @ May 24 2004, 12:36 AM) |
| I don't think that is fair, soldiers are just doing their job. Thats the same type of attitude that vietnam vets unfairly returned to. These soldiers are over there because they were told the security of their country was threatened. |
I would so gas you!
Post by: nemt on May 23, 2004, 05:33:00 PM
Fact: No decorations, leftover food, or elders (to signify a family even) were found.
Fact: The facility contained hundreds of makeshift beds and changes of clothes (as foreign fighters typically change into typical Iraqi clothing as they enter).
and if all else fails:
Fact: Terrorists have weddings too.
Post by: ViNCe_V on May 23, 2004, 05:35:00 PM
Post by: HeLiuM on May 23, 2004, 06:52:00 PM
| QUOTE (nemt @ May 24 2004, 02:33 AM) |
| Fact: Few, if any of the "wedding guests" had any identification. Fact: No decorations, leftover food, or elders (to signify a family even) were found. Fact: The facility contained hundreds of makeshift beds and changes of clothes (as foreign fighters typically change into typical Iraqi clothing as they enter). and if all else fails: Fact: Terrorists have weddings too. |
Fact: KKK members have weddings
Fact: KKK is an American organization
iraqi counterpart of nemt: ok to bomb an american weddings because they're racist?
You sir, are a terrorist.
Come now.. murder based on suspicion is still murder. Those people weren't putting anyone in danger with a wedding. You can't justify their execution with "well.. they could've been terrorists."
If the same logic were applied on US citizens? Murder wouldn't be a punishable offense. The victims could have done something worth a death penalty in their lifetime, and gotten away with it.
Post by: nemt on May 23, 2004, 06:58:00 PM
There was no wedding, there was a meeting of insurgents, and if some celebration had taken place there, it had been over for some time. Very few of the dead had any identification on them, and large caches of supplies and weapons were found in the compound, which was a known border crossing stop.
Post by: ViNCe_V on May 23, 2004, 07:08:00 PM
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 24, 2004, 07:52:00 AM
Post by: BloodyMary on May 24, 2004, 08:01:00 AM
| QUOTE (67thRaptorBull @ May 24 2004, 11:52 AM) |
| i went to a wedding the other day in canada (my uncles ((my moms canadien, my dads american)) and i didnt take any ID's or anything, so if i got blown up i guess i would be a terrorist in the eyes of "you" people |
I'm going to have to guess that you either live in Canada or your were already there prior to going to the Wedding...
Otherwise... I'm going to confidently say you're a lying piece of shit...
EDIT:
On to other stuff.... I belive that I've stated before that I have been opposed to going into Iraq since before we went in... I knew that Bush was going to go in eventually, I just had hoped that he wouldn't. Had we done the right thing and taken out Saddam during the gulf war (or 1st gulf war, whatever you want)... it wouldn't have looked like we were the worlds asshole, spilling our shit around. I love the US and I love living in the US... I don't love the current administration or the current congress... nor do I love the UN. People on these boards referring to me as an asshole are stupid american or (whatever negative reference have you) because I was born and live in America, is no different the being racist, they're both retarded view points. (you know who you are)
As far as this 'wedding party' goes... the US looks bad in the eyes of a lot of the rest of the world because, that lot believes that our troops knowingly or carelessly stuck a wedding party... I still do not believe that this was a wedding party... however, any evidence that I can produce for my view, can be countered with evidence to the opposite and viseversa... I have looked at the evidence, watched the 'supposed' videos... I have my belief.. perhaps you can present something to convience me otherwise... but so far, I have seen nothing... I'll not try to force you to believe my way (it couldn't be done anyway), but I'd ask that you look at the evidence from both views... and at least see that their is a possibility that this wasn't a wedding... (as I can see their is a possibility that it was...)
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 24, 2004, 08:16:00 AM
i didnt take anytype of photo idea (ie, dirver id, or nay of that) and my mom took my birth certificate, but they never asked for it
you can act like you know what your talking about
Post by: BloodyMary on May 24, 2004, 08:20:00 AM
| QUOTE (67thRaptorBull @ May 24 2004, 12:16 PM) |
| no, i live in Toledo, Ohio and travel up to canada every so often i didnt take anytype of photo idea (ie, dirver id, or nay of that) and my mom took my birth certificate, but they never asked for it you can act like you know what your talking about |
So, you're like, how old now then???
EDIT: you're still riding around with mommy, and you mom still carries your birth certificate for you... damn... I'd say that makes you like 10 at best... Nothing against 10 year olds, but when it comes to political discussions, they haven't been around long enough to have developed a reasonable opinion...
Post by: BloodyMary on May 24, 2004, 09:18:00 AM
| QUOTE (HeLiuM @ May 24 2004, 12:37 PM) |
| That could make him any age, since he was going with his family to a wedding why would he take another car across the border? And if you think his point is irrelevant simply because of his age, grow up. How about some actual points instead of personal attacks, this thread was on topic for a good while. You said this could have been a wedding, well then as far as I'm concerned there was not enough prior investigation done. Even if this wasn't a wedding, what if next time it is? Blind fire isn't the way to convince a country you're on their side. American planes fired on British troops because they could've been Iraqi soldiers, does that make it justified? |
Ok maybe your a stupid fuck.. obviously you didn't read my post... no where did I personally attack him... but you certainly personally attack me.. so WHAT you are saying is you yourself are no better then the people you attack... a duh a duh... actually... based on what I've read from you so far, HeLiuM... I expected you to be better and above this... perhaps your just another dumb fuck...
And a persons age does have relevance to their personal beliefs and view points... I was asking him a question...
and as far as your point about...
| QUOTE |
| You said this could have been a wedding, well then as far as I'm concerned there was not enough prior investigation done. |
I doubt there is enough time to make the best of judgements on these situations.. however, you're not there and neither am I... I believe the the US should not be there (as I stated before)... there is enough evidence to prove that this never was a wedding party... and if I walk over to the other side there is enough evidence to prove that it was... I just don't think people are going to be jumping around getting married while there under control of an invading force (yes.. that's how I view the US involment there)... it's not all the bright... however... I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.. and say this possibly was a wedding party... (but I doubt it)...
Ok now get back to waht you're good at, posting sensible post instead of attacking me..
Post by: Banj on May 24, 2004, 09:23:00 AM
Post by: BloodyMary on May 24, 2004, 09:28:00 AM
| QUOTE (Banj @ May 24 2004, 01:23 PM) |
| "....there is enough evidence to prove that this never was a wedding party..." Funny that because I've just seen the wedding video on Sky News, it clearly shows one of the victims playing keyboard in the wedding band and all the guests arriving, children playing etc. Turns out Mary that you shot your mouth off without knowing what the fuck was coming out of it......how nice for you. |
Damn another fucking asshole... get a fucking mind in that empty shell you wear on your shoulders... Do you not think that the video could be from somewhere else... from some other time.. are you really believing that every fucking video you see on TV is absolutely true... so as for shooting off of the mouth... look in the mirror.. and see the asshole staring back at you...
Post by: Banj on May 24, 2004, 09:50:00 AM
Post by: ViNCe_V on May 24, 2004, 10:06:00 AM
| QUOTE (BloodyMary @ May 24 2004, 06:28 PM) |
| Damn another fucking asshole... get a fucking mind in that empty shell you wear on your shoulders... Do you not think that the video could be from somewhere else... from some other time.. are you really believing that every fucking video you see on TV is absolutely true... so as for shooting off of the mouth... look in the mirror.. and see the asshole staring back at you... |
So let me get this straight. Any video spreading the views of America as wrong is false? Yet every video about beheading, future terrorist attacks by Bin Laden, and all the things that make America look good are right?
Wow....you sure are a smart one. It must have pissed you off watching an American getting his head ripped off. Wonder how the Iraqi's feel about a groom and wife (not to mention all the other ppl) on their wedding day being blown apart. You seem to only look at the viewpoint which helps the US
I'm only glad you're a girl, and in America you can make little difference. 
Post by: Maximumbeing on May 24, 2004, 10:28:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| EDIT: you're still riding around with mommy, and you mom still carries your birth certificate for you... damn... I'd say that makes you like 10 at best... Nothing against 10 year olds, but when it comes to political discussions, they haven't been around long enough to have developed a reasonable opinion... |
When you shoot your mouth off like that Mary, it does seem as though you have hostile feelings towards 10 year olds, particularly this one, and age really does not have much to do with political opinion, what exactly exempts 10 year olds from a political discussion? Their lack of a sense of morality? Not having a knowledge of history? In the end it's going to depend on the kid and the circumstance, in any case, an opinion can't be unreasonable, it's an opinion, however if he were running his mouth about things he hadn't researched, (ahem), then maybe his opinion could be classified as, "unworthy of recognition", but never unreasonable, that's just stupid :-P.
Post by: BloodyMary on May 24, 2004, 10:35:00 AM
| QUOTE (ViNCe_V @ May 24 2004, 02:06 PM) |
| blah blah blah blah.... I'm only glad you're a girl, and in America you can make little difference. |
So now .. not only are you anti-American, you are also anti-Girls....
oh well, at least your post gave me a moment or two of laughter...
Post by: TheSheerPowerofIndustrialMight on May 24, 2004, 12:27:00 PM
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 24, 2004, 12:32:00 PM
| QUOTE (BloodyMary @ May 24 2004, 11:20 AM) |
| So, you're like, how old now then??? EDIT: you're still riding around with mommy, and you mom still carries your birth certificate for you... damn... I'd say that makes you like 10 at best... Nothing against 10 year olds, but when it comes to political discussions, they haven't been around long enough to have developed a reasonable opinion... |
actually im 17....i just dont feel the need to carry around my wallet when a) ive never had to and
) if there stiff fucks my parents have my bearth certificate (honestly, why the fuck would i carry my own, true birth certificate, id get drunk and lose it)
Post by: BloodyMary on May 24, 2004, 04:08:00 PM
| QUOTE (67thRaptorBull @ May 24 2004, 04:32 PM) |
| actually im 17....i just dont feel the need to carry around my wallet when a) ive never had to and ) if there stiff fucks my parents have my bearth certificate (honestly, why the fuck would i carry my own, true birth certificate, id get drunk and lose it) |
You just punked yourself...
Post by: Maximumbeing on May 24, 2004, 04:26:00 PM
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 24, 2004, 04:56:00 PM
| QUOTE (BloodyMary @ May 24 2004, 07:08 PM) |
| You just punked yourself... |
umm, ok, because thats what would happen
and nice sig, i like how you took what we said out of context, meainly the part were we were using sarcasm to show that whats going on in iraq is dumb and fucked up just like vietnam and japan getting nuked
it really shows how mature you are
Post by: Banj on May 25, 2004, 01:43:00 AM
This thread will go round and round trying to attribute blame and will never achieve anything because there are two sides here, both trying to blame the other in their own defence. I'd like to champion a third perspective; it doesn't matter if the people killed were wedding guests or terrorists, the only thing that does matter is that they are dead. I niether condone terrorism nor dismiss their cause, I am not an Iraqi terrorist and therefore can't empathise in order to condemn, I can however condenm their methods but this doesn't detract from their cause. Similarly, I am not a government leader, I am not privy to any 'other' interests that may or may not be fuelling this conflict, I am not at 'ground zero' and fully aware of every detail of what is happening over there. And niether are any of you.
What I do know is that 40 people were killed in this particular incident, and seeing as I am a compassionate, intelligent person, I am fully qualified to realise the tragedy of this.
For the most part you all seem like intelligent, concerned people, however, I read your posts in here and the to/fro seems to me that the pro/con media has you jumping through hoops. You are attacking each other verbally and trying to belittle opposing opinion, or in some cases making entirelly irrelivent comments. This is a political forum, not a playground.
I think it is extremely beligerant of people to argue so venomously when all we know is what people allow us to know, we are advocating/condenming things we are not fully undertsanding.
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 25, 2004, 02:16:00 AM
we can all argue on either side, like you said, or we can realize, no matter what 40 more people are dead in the world
Post by: ViNCe_V on May 25, 2004, 03:28:00 AM
Banj, I will agree with you on one thing, we do spend too much time arguing like children in these political forums. But, that is simply because most of the people we are arguing behave like children. I have never agreed with the idea of not stooping down to someone's level. So, I will simply go down there and beat them at their own game. If they were to argue intelligently as you, HeLiuM, 67thRaptorBull, and I do, I would provide intelligent responses (as I have done in the past). But I refuse to waste a large portion of my time writing an intelligent response only to have it negated by the words: "No, we rule. haha"
Post by: melon on May 25, 2004, 08:45:00 AM
and vince they will just throw the fact they kicked your ass (not my words or views) in WWII at you if they are losing an argument. They will not even consider Japenese internment.
What is the point?
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 25, 2004, 11:35:00 AM
)
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on May 25, 2004, 11:42:00 AM
Post by: melon on May 25, 2004, 11:42:00 AM
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 25, 2004, 11:49:00 AM
| QUOTE (EmperorPsiblade @ May 25 2004, 02:42 PM) |
| considering that the US is the dominant military power in the world... they should be glad that we didn't just decide to kill every man, woman and child in Iraq... as far as i'm concerned, we didn't go in and kill everyone.... we didn't murder all of the Japanese, the Cubans, the Germans, and so on.... We could of done that... so when america gets sick and tired off everyone who hates it... well... |
first off, emporer your an idiot, and no matter what the US could never rule the world, nor could they silence the voice of one nation or group of people that didnt do shit directly, and i mean directly, not some "well they had weapons that cant even reach the US" type of thing, without either
A) massive world wide anger, with a possibility of trade embargos or threat of force
or
) a world wide attack towards the US (if the us ever used tactical nukes or WMD's) and there no way in hell the US would survive if either china or russia got pissed at us, no way in helland melon, yea i just turned 17 a few weeks ago, and i just get fed up with politics even though i cant even vote
Post by: melon on May 25, 2004, 12:05:00 PM
Post by: ViNCe_V on May 25, 2004, 12:34:00 PM
| QUOTE (EmperorPsiblade @ May 25 2004, 08:42 PM) |
| considering that the US is the dominant military power in the world... they should be glad that we didn't just decide to kill every man, woman and child in Iraq... |
Being the dominant military power does not give you an excuse to attack other countries. It can, however, not be stopped if you choose to do it. You are the dominant military power, and therefore if you made a suprise attack it would go unchallenged at first. HOWEVER, you misinterpret your views for the rest of the world's. You feel that because you, and some of your friends, agree that US is a dominant power, that it is unstoppable. If you were to attack countries senselessly (as you are doing now in Iraq), the world is gonna get pissed. And eventually, if the war continues, you're gonna get attacked. Think about it. If you attack India, you get nuked. You attack Pakistan, you get nuked. You attack Iran, you get attacked by the weapons you provided them during the Iraq and Iran conflict. And yes, Iraq is now using the weapons that were givin to it by the US to fight them. I am not saying that all of the weapons are from there, but there are several thousands, or possibly even hundreds of thousands. Like raptor said, if you attack China, or someone it has an alliance with (similar to how the US has an alliance with Israel), then you get attacked by 2 billion people (yes, I realize that not everyone in china would fight, but you seem to feel everyone in America is for the war, so in your sense, everyone in China would be too). If you were to attack Germany, Russia, Britain, France, any non-third world country. You are gonna be in for one hell of a fight. In fact, did you know Muslim forces have combined in Iraq (there are two kinds, Sunnis and Shiites. They have been at disagreement with each other ever since the prophet Muhammad died.) Burying their differences and finding a new common enemy, the Americans. Do you think other countries will not do the same? Furthermore, you think that in Iraq there is no army to fight. That you are assured victory and no casualty. I am not bringing up the following statement to say that Americans should die, I am merely trying to show you that it will be harder than you expect. Graduate student Moqtada al-Sadr, an Islamic extremist with ties to the mullahs of Iran, has assembled an Army of about 5,000-6,000 men. This is similar to how the Russian Revloution was started by a few thousand determined radicals in a country of 150+ million. Therefore, America may soon be experiences deaths like it was in Vietnam, where at its height of violence, American deaths totalled 500/week. I hope you realize America has no clear goal out of Vietn....er Iraq. (That was on purpose, the smarter of you all will understand what I meant. The rest of you will probably laugh assuming it was a typo.)
| QUOTE (EmperorPsiblade @ May 25 2004, 08:42 PM) |
as far as i'm concerned, we didn't go in and kill everyone.... we didn't murder all of the Japanese, the Cubans, the Germans, and so on.... We could of done that... so when america gets sick and tired off everyone who hates it... well... |
I realize I ended my previous statement above prematurely. I just dont like writing long posts because then people tend not to read them
. You didn't murder all the Japanese, Cubans, Germans, and so on. Correct, but you admit to murdering some? Not defending yourself against, but MURDERING! These are your words, not mine. And if America does get sick and tired of it all, there is not a thing it can do. Every here of a thing called M.A.D. It means Mutally Assured Destruction. If you attack other countries, say with a Nuclear bomb. They WILL attack back immediately. In the end it only results in the death of thousands of Americans and foreigners. This is only why it is insane (or MAD....)But, now I have a question for you.
The Vietnam War and the Iraqi War are proven to be wars of choice. Wtih Vietnam, America worried about the spread of communism and how it might affect the safety of its country. In Iraq, America is worried that the spread of terrorism (from ideology to weapons) may be a threat to the safety of the American people. But, in reality, neither Vietnam nor Iraq pose(d) an imminent threat to America, though I'm sure you can falsly argue otherwise. In Vietnam, the Viet Cong never attacked an America city. Saddam may not have direct ties to Al Qaeda, but now, the jihadists can't wait to take over in his place. If America is forced to leave Iraq, for whatever reason, now that it has fucked it up. Then when America does leave, Iraq will defer back to a failed state and will become a breading ground for terrorists that WILL attack the US (if and when they get the opportunity). Now that you can no longer leave Iraq, and American popularity there is in its twilight, it seems America may be in for another Vietnam....
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 25, 2004, 01:15:00 PM
i would have loved to say the same thing, but without knowing if anyone else felt the same, id get attacked by nemt or bloodymary (well i would be named called) and all the other "go us, we have the biggest guns" people would follow suit
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on May 25, 2004, 01:38:00 PM
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 25, 2004, 02:11:00 PM
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on May 25, 2004, 03:46:00 PM
[/sarcasm]
I must say that the 2 last presidents have been absolutely horrible... Clinton was a moron and Bush is a bigger moron...
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN 60% OF THE COUNTRY DOESN'T VOTE!
yes... i do think iraq was a big mistake and we cannot go around knocking down leaders because we like to...
Worst case scenario:
America gets fed up and attacks the rest of the world that do not help them, promising it's allies the remaining land.... what do you think could happen?
this is something i honestly think could happen...
the major leaders of America are called "Bush" and "Dick'... c'mon!
yes it is fun to see what people's reactions are to certain exteme opinons....
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 25, 2004, 03:52:00 PM
at least he could form coherrent words
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on May 25, 2004, 03:55:00 PM
"Bring 'em on" ---Bush
Post by: melon on May 25, 2004, 04:01:00 PM
Raptor if your unsure whether to post something pm me.
About Iraq I just want to say
one, two, three
what are we fighting for
I aint got time to wonder why
were all going to die.
its slightly more relevent than a song BM posted
and is it me or has there been a swing in numbers of people sharing leftwing views?
Post by: ViNCe_V on May 25, 2004, 04:04:00 PM
Post by: melon on May 25, 2004, 04:20:00 PM
The overall irony is actually really funny.
Your post was still valid vince (except the bashing), but you didnt really need to explain Vietn....er Iraq
thats made me laugh
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 25, 2004, 04:21:00 PM
edit, lets all stop caring and listen to "wish you were here" by Pink Floyd
its like an orgasm without the mess
Post by: melon on May 25, 2004, 04:26:00 PM
Greatest opening line ever i reckon.
good taste in music as well.
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 25, 2004, 04:34:00 PM
Post by: melon on May 25, 2004, 04:38:00 PM
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on May 25, 2004, 04:45:00 PM
| QUOTE (melon @ May 25 2004, 07:20 PM) |
| its quite funny really. Emp and someone else got stick for not getting the posts irony, but emp had used irony in his response, and we never got it! The overall irony is actually really funny. Your post was still valid vince (except the bashing), but you didnt really need to explain Vietn....er Iraq thats made me laugh |
heh heh....
but people are missing my origanal point!
WHAT IF IT DID HAPPEN???!!!
all i can say is "Down with the Sickness" --Disturbed
and the Richard Cheese version is good too...
quite appropriate also for the topic...
Post by: Maximumbeing on May 25, 2004, 05:21:00 PM
Post by: ViNCe_V on May 25, 2004, 07:42:00 PM
| QUOTE (melon @ May 26 2004, 01:20 AM) |
| but you didnt really need to explain Vietn....er Iraq |
I used a reference to Vietnam alot in my post. By saying, "Vietn....er Iraq" I was trying to show that the two situations are nearly identical. Therefore, it was easy for one to mistake one country for the other. It was another way to add to my argument.
Post by: melon on May 25, 2004, 10:31:00 PM
Post by: Arvarden on May 26, 2004, 01:19:00 AM
What followed was reminiscent of the conflict in Somalia in 1993 when dead American military personnel were hauled through the streets of the capital Mogadishu."
http://www.informati...article5972.htm
Things they wont show you on national TV
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 26, 2004, 02:31:00 AM
but, thats there own way of doing things in that country, we allow people to watch someone get pumped full of lethal drugs or shocked to death (hell, they used to use firing squads and nooses)
either way, its there form of "propaganda", designed to piss of americans at home (and lower morale), and to piss of soldiers to start doing stupid things in the name of revenge (kill innocent iraqi civilians, which then lowers morale at home)
Post by: Banj on May 26, 2004, 03:03:00 AM
It's a sign of things to come. I can't see any improvement on the horizon. I'm listening to the news now while Blair backtracks on his statement about vito over coalision troops being handed over with sovereignty, 'sovereignty' I might add is not the word I would use for placing a representative in power.
Where will these more and more frequent acts of violence and murder (on both sides) lead to ultimately? It upsets me deeply to see human life so thoroughly degraded.
Let's just hope metaphorical fingers stay away from metaphorical buttons.
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 29, 2004, 04:23:00 AM
Post by: HydroBob on May 29, 2004, 10:48:00 AM
| QUOTE (Helios @ May 29 2004, 09:09 AM) |
| FUCK THOSE US and UK SOLDIERS!! I am sick and tired of seeing on the news that these innocent Iraqi's are 'accidently' killed by US Soldiers... I think that it is deliberate and when I heard that the 40 people were killed in a wedding of all things I knew that it couldnt be an accident... These soldiers seem cold hearted to me.... Killing 40 innocent people at a WEDDING is absolutley devastating.... How could that be an accident?? 40 innocent people killed.... and they say it was an acciedent? I dont think so... |
Exactly. How long does it take to realize, 40 people were killed. 40. Were innocent human beings. Imagine 40 of your best friends, gone. For no fucking reason at all. Damn it, get it through your heads!
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on May 29, 2004, 11:06:00 AM
yea, whatever, thats bullshit
Post by: melon on June 02, 2004, 09:35:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| FUCK THOSE US and UK SOLDIERS!! |
I object to you saying this.
The UK soldiers suffer as well as the Iraqi civillians.
During the actual conflict part of this "war" almost every British soldier killed, was killed due to "friendly fire".
Post by: nemt on June 02, 2004, 10:21:00 AM
| QUOTE (HydroBob @ May 29 2004, 03:48 PM) |
| Exactly. How long does it take to realize, 40 people were killed. 40. Were innocent human beings. Imagine 40 of your best friends, gone. For no fucking reason at all. Damn it, get it through your heads! |
They weren't innocent, they were insurgents crossing the Syrian border.
Post by: melon on June 02, 2004, 10:30:00 AM
simple scientific equation
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on June 02, 2004, 11:56:00 AM
| QUOTE (nemt @ Jun 2 2004, 01:21 PM) |
| They weren't innocent, they were insurgents crossing the Syrian border. |
umm, in a time of war, everyone is innocent, or everyone is guilty, so in that case all of the US soldiers can rot in hell since there guilty to
see nemt, your logical ways of putting things is severly flawed, grow up
Post by: Banj on June 05, 2004, 04:59:00 AM
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on June 06, 2004, 11:44:00 AM
Post by: Master-Chief on June 13, 2004, 05:26:00 AM
| QUOTE (BloodyMary @ May 24 2004, 01:28 PM) |
| Damn another fucking asshole... get a fucking mind in that empty shell you wear on your shoulders... Do you not think that the video could be from somewhere else... from some other time.. are you really believing that every fucking video you see on TV is absolutely true... so as for shooting off of the mouth... look in the mirror.. and see the asshole staring back at you... |
This guy is getting so angry off of an internet forum!
Dude, you really need to...
CHILL OUT!
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on June 13, 2004, 10:12:00 AM
| QUOTE (nemt @ Jun 2 2004, 01:21 PM) |
| They weren't innocent, they were insurgents crossing the Syrian border. |
im sorry, i had to post to that comment again
weres your basis on that??
or are you just going to insult everyones spelling and not provide a valid arguement?
Post by: moistness on June 14, 2004, 12:07:00 AM
| QUOTE (Banj @ Jun 5 2004, 02:59 PM) |
| 'Friendly Fire', that one always cracks a smile with me. Seems it's a term almost exclusively used when referencing those incompetent U.S. forces too..... ......3.......2.......1.........flame! |
*High fives Banj!!*
Post by: melon on June 14, 2004, 03:00:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| 'Friendly Fire', that one always cracks a smile with me. Seems it's a term almost exclusively used when referencing those incompetent U.S. forces too..... |
The American forces can be described as Inspector Gadget.
Pig shit thick, but have enough technology to clumsily get the job done.
edit: speliing, sorry nemt
Post by: maverick13 on June 18, 2004, 05:12:00 PM
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on June 18, 2004, 07:56:00 PM
| QUOTE (maverick13 @ Jun 18 2004, 08:12 PM) |
| In a time of war, it is not wise to celebrate your wedding with triggers pulled and barrels to the sky, I don't care if we warned them or not, it is just common sense. |
ur an idiot
when it happens to you, then say that same statement
Post by: moistness on June 19, 2004, 12:41:00 AM
| QUOTE (67thRaptorBull @ Jun 19 2004, 05:56 AM) |
| ur an idiot when it happens to you, then say that same statement |
Assuming he has common sense, that would not happen to him!
Post by: nemt on June 19, 2004, 02:07:00 AM
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on June 19, 2004, 12:32:00 PM
| QUOTE (moistness @ Jun 19 2004, 03:41 AM) |
| Assuming he has common sense, that would not happen to him! |
it wouldnt be common sense, itd be there way of life for the last hundreds of years
i dont care what it was, its just the point that there so many ignorant people in hear that think just because the US played cowboy and took a country to help it, doesnt mean that country has to bend over for the US to fuck it from behind (which were already doing, yay go US
)
Post by: Master-Chief on June 19, 2004, 03:26:00 PM
| QUOTE (nemt @ Jun 19 2004, 06:07 AM) |
| I like how everyone is still bitching about this, even after coalition forces confirmed it was a Syrian insurgent hideout, with supplies and weapons, and almost no one at the "wedding" was even an Iraqi. |
I'm wondering why you put "wedding" in quotation marks...
Nemt, you have my word for being a complete jackass...
Post by: nemt on June 19, 2004, 03:32:00 PM
| QUOTE (Master-Chief @ Jun 19 2004, 08:26 PM) |
| I'm wondering why you put "wedding" in quotation marks... |
Because there was no wedding, there was a group of foreign terrorists assembling in a known terrorist hideout.
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on June 19, 2004, 03:40:00 PM
| QUOTE (nemt @ Jun 19 2004, 06:32 PM) |
| Because there was no wedding, there was a group of foreign terrorists assembling in a known terrorist hideout. |
just for the record, whats the definition (yours, and the bush administrations) definition of a terrorist
if you say someone who attacks another country (the us) then that wouldnt make these people terrorist
yea, maybe they were meeting in a so called "terrorist hideout", that doesnt mean they had intent to kill someone
if we can go around, justifying killing people because we label them as terrorists without cuase, thats like being considered guilty before being proven so
Post by: nemt on June 20, 2004, 04:45:00 AM
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on June 20, 2004, 06:47:00 AM
| QUOTE (nemt @ Jun 20 2004, 07:45 AM) |
| The US military is the first to admit when it's made a mistake |
wait wait wait
wait
wait
could you say that again, it cracked the shit out of me, please, say it again, that was some funny shit
haha, the first to admit a mistake
i think you mean the first to admit a mistake, once the press or public finds out about that mistake (a certain prison comes to mind), but yea, thats totally different
haha, first to admit a mistake
Post by: Master-Chief on June 20, 2004, 08:43:00 AM
| QUOTE (nemt @ Jun 20 2004, 08:45 AM) |
| The entire occupation has been plagued by false reports filed by sketchy news sources, which they trickle down to legitimate sources like ABC, this sort of high stakes game of telephone ensues. Fake photographs (such as the children at the hospital said to be from the "wedding" attack, which later proved false) render anything you hear from a source other then CentComm unreliable. The US military is the first to admit when it's made a mistake, but the "wedding" was no mistake, and Iraq is safer for it. |
Wait, I think we have a perfect human being here...
So everyone is wrong and you are right...?
Man, whatever you're smoking, SWING IT BY!
Post by: nemt on June 20, 2004, 09:40:00 AM
| QUOTE (Master-Chief @ Jun 20 2004, 01:43 PM) |
| So everyone is wrong and you are right...? |
No, biased arab news sources, and terrorist sympathizers are wrong.
Post by: 67thRaptorBull on June 20, 2004, 11:00:00 AM
| QUOTE (nemt @ Jun 20 2004, 12:40 PM) |
| No, biased arab news sources, and terrorist sympathizers are wrong. |
umm, our news is biased
shit, even your biased
i still like how you label certain people in a sense that there evil and always wrong
i dont condone terrorism, but you still havnt understanded that terrorism is done by regular civilians that try to get a point across, its not like they do it for fun, its obvious (sp) that they do it to try to get someone (the US) to stop doing something, or to leave them the hell alone
i am amazed at people who think terrorists are scum and do there acts for no reason, but its simple (and i know people like you nemt dont want to realize it)
If we live terrorists alone, and we leave there people and all of the middle east alone, then they will leave us alone
but like i said, people like you, nemt, cant accept that