Post by: 2 Bunny on October 20, 2009, 06:03:00 PM
Note that I am not talking about the first generation intercooler (where you had to saw some of it off for the wireless adapter to fit), but the intercooler EX, not the TS either. The one that just snaps on the back as is.
If anyone has any insight on this, that would be wonderful. Have a wonderful day.
- 2 Bunny
Post by: Ranger72 on October 20, 2009, 07:55:00 PM
BUT these fans run on power from the power brick. This power brick is setup to provide power to the stock 360. Adding extra power draw from the extra fans could cause stability issues and have been rumored to cause the 3rrod in some rare cases.
Your best bet is to just keep the console in a well ventilated area and keep it clean of dust buildup. If you have one of the older consoles that gets the 3rrod then if your console is destined to suffer this fate all the cooling in the world wont prevent it.
If you have a new Jasper and you use one of these coolers then you are completely wasting your money and time using it as it is completely not necessary to use it.
Post by: alwaysonjohn on October 20, 2009, 09:49:00 PM
Post by: 2 Bunny on October 21, 2009, 03:12:00 PM
QUOTE(Ranger72 @ Oct 20 2009, 09:55 PM) 
As you have already stated most of the problems was with the first gen coolers.
BUT these fans run on power from the power brick. This power brick is setup to provide power to the stock 360. Adding extra power draw from the extra fans could cause stability issues and have been rumored to cause the 3rrod in some rare cases.
Your best bet is to just keep the console in a well ventilated area and keep it clean of dust buildup. If you have one of the older consoles that gets the 3rrod then if your console is destined to suffer this fate all the cooling in the world wont prevent it.
If you have a new Jasper and you use one of these coolers then you are completely wasting your money and time using it as it is completely not necessary to use it.
BUT these fans run on power from the power brick. This power brick is setup to provide power to the stock 360. Adding extra power draw from the extra fans could cause stability issues and have been rumored to cause the 3rrod in some rare cases.
Your best bet is to just keep the console in a well ventilated area and keep it clean of dust buildup. If you have one of the older consoles that gets the 3rrod then if your console is destined to suffer this fate all the cooling in the world wont prevent it.
If you have a new Jasper and you use one of these coolers then you are completely wasting your money and time using it as it is completely not necessary to use it.
Thanks so much. So, do you know the actual failure rate on the newest ones? Isn't it only like 2 percent or something?
Also, would the internal light up fans that run off the DVD drive do anything differently/better than the intercooler? Couldn't that cause the same thing, 'cause they run off the DVD drive?
- 2 Bunny
Post by: TheTerminator on October 21, 2009, 03:16:00 PM
QUOTE(Ranger72 @ Oct 20 2009, 09:55 PM) 
As you have already stated most of the problems was with the first gen coolers.
BUT these fans run on power from the power brick. This power brick is setup to provide power to the stock 360. Adding extra power draw from the extra fans could cause stability issues and have been rumored to cause the 3rrod in some rare cases.
Your best bet is to just keep the console in a well ventilated area and keep it clean of dust buildup. If you have one of the older consoles that gets the 3rrod then if your console is destined to suffer this fate all the cooling in the world wont prevent it.
If you have a new Jasper and you use one of these coolers then you are completely wasting your money and time using it as it is completely not necessary to use it.
Lewl, I have one of the launch 360s and it's still working with a Talismoon WhisperMax Fan running at 5V. It red ringed once but I just had to overheat the GPU.
Post by: gamestationohio on October 21, 2009, 06:34:00 PM
QUOTE(alwaysonjohn @ Oct 21 2009, 04:49 AM)
also, the intercooler is known to be bad by changing the airflow. the 360 was not designed to have that much air shoved out the back.
I was wonder if you read that somewhere on a tech website. Could you refer us to it?
Post by: Ranger72 on October 21, 2009, 06:59:00 PM
QUOTE(2 Bunny @ Oct 21 2009, 05:12 PM)
Thanks so much. So, do you know the actual failure rate on the newest ones? Isn't it only like 2 percent or something?
- 2 Bunny
I would say the new Jasper 360 are less than 2%. I have never had a report of one of them getting the 3rrod.
Post by: 2 Bunny on October 21, 2009, 07:29:00 PM
QUOTE(Ranger72 @ Oct 21 2009, 08:59 PM)
I would say the new Jasper 360 are less than 2%. I have never had a report of one of them getting the 3rrod.
How do those "whisper" internal casemod fans compare to the intercooler? Do the internal ones make any difference (I would assume not, based on how you said "no amount of cooling will prevent it if it was destined to happen")?
- 2 Bunny
Post by: Ranger72 on October 21, 2009, 08:45:00 PM
QUOTE(2 Bunny @ Oct 21 2009, 09:29 PM)
How do those "whisper" internal casemod fans compare to the intercooler? Do the internal ones make any difference (I would assume not, based on how you said "no amount of cooling will prevent it if it was destined to happen")?
- 2 Bunny
The internal fan mods do a better job than the external fans do. BUT as stated if your console is destined to have this fate it is still not likely to help any. And it is not worth voiding your warranty for if your console is less than 3 years old.
Post by: 2 Bunny on October 22, 2009, 02:02:00 PM
QUOTE(Ranger72 @ Oct 21 2009, 10:45 PM)
The internal fan mods do a better job than the external fans do. BUT as stated if your console is destined to have this fate it is still not likely to help any. And it is not worth voiding your warranty for if your console is less than 3 years old.
All right, thanks. One more question: Besides the "different heatsinks" what differs in the different version boards that makes them more or less proned to overheating? What causes the overheat and separation from the board in the first place? Is there any sure fire way that can do a for sure permanent fix? Can the problem be eliminated in this same idea before it even happens?
- 2 Bunny
Post by: Ranger72 on February 03, 2020, 04:32:00 PM
Ill answer a couple.
Newer console have a 65nm CPU and GPU. These run much cooler than the older 90NM CPU and GPU.
Also since they use led free solder there is no give when the board flexes from the heat. So since it cant give the contacts between the CPU and GPU break instead causing a hardware failure aka 3rrod.
Post by: theguru1 on February 04, 2020, 04:27:00 AM
Now i have a intercooler EX so far so good, anything that gets rid of heat quicker is a good thing (ignore what ppl say),but i will say this if NYKO developt a product that can brick your XBOXES...why do you think major game stores sell them? It would be quicker off the shelves than you can imagine...and someone would of sued them by now..as the product is still being sold...
Cooling your xbox is the key to not over heating & getting RROD...but if you already had RROD then like me know my xbox is destin for death anyway..
This post has been edited by theguru1: Today, 12:29 PM
Post by: 2 Bunny on October 23, 2009, 02:24:00 PM
- 2 Bunny
Post by: 2 Bunny on October 24, 2009, 11:07:00 AM
QUOTE(frags @ Oct 23 2009, 05:03 PM)
No more lead, They are are just learning to use it properly IMHO. More importantly the new GPU and CPU create less of the heat that caused the solder trouble.
So basically, the first versions had no solder, bad heatsinks, and got hot by default?
Then the new versions incorporated more lead, "better" heatsinks, and just ran cooler by default?
- 2 Bunny
Post by: 2 Bunny on October 25, 2009, 11:56:00 AM
QUOTE(dharrison @ Oct 24 2009, 02:48 PM)
No version of the XBOX 360 has ever had lead in the solder. It's always been lead free. Microsoft has to abide by strict compliances when building electronics, thus eliminating the use of lead. Like others have been saying, the reason why older versions of the XBOX 360 motherboard have failed was mostly due to it having a 90nm GPU and CPU which created more heat than their 65nm predecessors, which generate less heat. The older motherboard had heatsinks that couldn't properly dissipate the heat from the chips. The new revision of heatsinks added a bigger CPU heatsink and added a copper pipe to the GPU heatsink. But, now that the Jasper systems generate less heat, Microsoft is going back to using their original GPU heatsinks to save money, because now that design will work with the new chips.
The other part of getting the RROD is due to improper air flow through the system. If you keep your console on carpet or enclosed in an entertainment center, the air cannot escape the system properly, therefore making it hotter inside the system.
Oh. So you could essentially take a version one, slap a big heatsink in it and it would be as reliable as the ones that came with the big heatsink from the factory?
- 2 Bunny
Post by: parker955 on October 25, 2009, 05:24:00 PM
If you water cooled a xeon and put some good sized heatsinks on all the chips then it'll last pretty long I would believe since there's less heat warping the board.
Post by: 2 Bunny on October 25, 2009, 06:41:00 PM
- 2 Bunny
Post by: insanityforall on October 25, 2009, 09:14:00 PM
Yes, I do AGREE the Jasper is the best version out there. But I HATE it when I read a Jasper isn't going to RROD on you. After 1 year about 12 Jasper consoles reflowed. About 1 year after the Falcon board I was sitting probably closer to 100.
And if you're curious most of the falcons I reflowed where e-74 repairs. Xenon and Zephyr consoles are the ones where I tend to get the WIDE range of different secondary error codes on.
If you want a RROD proof console write a letter to your congressman and tell them to lift the restrictions that prevent lead from being used in electronics that children will be around. It's just our govt. blaming the school systems they screwed up on "Autism" caused by our toys. I.E. I ate lots of lead paint as a kid, I still have all ten of my toes!
Post by: Derfuhrer on October 25, 2009, 09:46:00 PM
IMO only the Whispermax/ XCM Core Cooler fans are any good. Whether your console 'needs' it depends on the version.
Xenon - definately!
Falcon - good to have!
Jasper - wow blue lights!
The only way to permanantly resolve the red ring issue is a complete BGA reballing....essentially replacing inferior quality lead free solder with good quality leaded type. Then reducing stress on the mobo by performing the 'Hybrid X-clamp fix'
Post by: 2 Bunny on October 26, 2009, 03:31:00 PM
QUOTE(Derfuhrer @ Oct 25 2009, 11:46 PM)
Gents...
IMO only the Whispermax/ XCM Core Cooler fans are any good. Whether your console 'needs' it depends on the version.
Xenon - definately!
Falcon - good to have!
Jasper - wow blue lights!
The only way to permanantly resolve the red ring issue is a complete BGA reballing....essentially replacing inferior quality lead free solder with good quality leaded type. Then reducing stress on the mobo by performing the 'Hybrid X-clamp fix'
IMO only the Whispermax/ XCM Core Cooler fans are any good. Whether your console 'needs' it depends on the version.
Xenon - definately!
Falcon - good to have!
Jasper - wow blue lights!
The only way to permanantly resolve the red ring issue is a complete BGA reballing....essentially replacing inferior quality lead free solder with good quality leaded type. Then reducing stress on the mobo by performing the 'Hybrid X-clamp fix'
So, what makes those fans better than the Intercooler?
- 2 Bunny
Post by: Derfuhrer on October 26, 2009, 08:47:00 PM
QUOTE
So, what makes those fans better than the Intercooler?
Apart from the reasons already discussed in the thread Im doubtful that there has been much thought put into the design. Slapping extra fans on the back will prob do more to impede airflow rather than lower operating temp as the 360 was never designed with this in mind. If you replace the 360 fan or add in an XCM you know that its going to push more air by design. Also they are bulky, look ugly and can be noisy. A whispermax has a switch, XCM v2 is quiet as two smaller fans make less noise than one larger fan.