Post by: Xbox-Scene on December 19, 2007, 10:25:00 PM
| It looks like Mad Catz is about to release a HDMI-kit for older Xbox360 consoles without HDMI port. No miracle here (those older 360s without HANA chip can't output a digital video signal), it's similar to XCM's HDMI cable for regular Xbox360s ... they convert the analog Xbox360 output to a digital signal, but the Mad Catz device comes with full 1080p support: Quote
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Post by: ramzeva on December 19, 2007, 11:22:00 PM
Post by: Nailed on December 19, 2007, 11:28:00 PM
Update: the pre-order is available for a whopping $89.99! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) They're out of their minds.
This post has been edited by Nailed: Dec 20 2007, 07:33 AM
Post by: M1ndL3sS on December 19, 2007, 11:36:00 PM
Post by: Zod5000 on December 19, 2007, 11:39:00 PM
I'm guessing this thing is a vga to hdmi convertor? Its the only way I can think of that you can get 1080p out of a non-hdmi xbox 360.
Post by: Nailed on December 19, 2007, 11:09:00 PM
QUOTE(M1ndL3sS @ Dec 20 2007, 06:36 AM) 
Question, is HDCP supported? You can't really have true HDMI without that..
Or better yet, is it stripped?
Post by: apexad on December 19, 2007, 11:09:00 PM
QUOTE(Zod5000 @ Dec 20 2007, 07:39 AM)
89 bux? you're almost better off being patient and waiting for an insanely hot deal on an xbox arcade model.
I'm guessing this thing is a vga to hdmi convertor? Its the only way I can think of that you can get 1080p out of a non-hdmi xbox 360.
If your TV supported it (Samsung does, Sony doesn't) the Xbox 360 can do 1080p over Component.
QUOTE
Question, is HDCP supported? You can't really have true HDMI without that..
From Wikipedia:
QUOTE
If an HDCP-enabled player is connected to a non-HDCP-enabled television set with a non-HDCP-compliant analog connection (VGA or Component), and the content is flagged, the player will output a downsampled 960x540 pixel signal. If using a non-HDCP-compliant DVI connection (with an HDMI-to-DVI cable), the user will not get any picture at all. Many older high-definition television sets currently in use are not HDCP-capable, and this would negate some of the key benefits of HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc for those consumers. Also, the Microsoft Xbox360 game console, for which there is an HD-DVD add-on available, is only capable of analog non-HDCP-connections, although a new model of the Xbox360 called the "Xbox 360 Elite" has HDMI support, which enables it to play such protected content at full resolution.
If ICT would be forced, Microsoft's flagship console (note that MS is an integral part of the HD-DVD camp, currently providing the VC-1 codec that is used in over 90% of all HD-DVD releases) would only be able to display a quarter of the actual resolution of the media, so movie studios are apparently in agreement not to include the ICT flag on any HD-DVDs or Blu-ray Discs in the immediate future.
If ICT would be forced, Microsoft's flagship console (note that MS is an integral part of the HD-DVD camp, currently providing the VC-1 codec that is used in over 90% of all HD-DVD releases) would only be able to display a quarter of the actual resolution of the media, so movie studios are apparently in agreement not to include the ICT flag on any HD-DVDs or Blu-ray Discs in the immediate future.
Basically, what it says is that Analog (Component or VGA) cannot do HDCP and this includes original Xbox 360's. So, the only way that this device could 'support' HDCP is if it stripped it or was some how forcing original Xbox 360 consoles to output a digital, HDCP supporting signal.
However, according the 2nd paragraph on wikipedia it's a mute point as HD-DVD releases don't have the ICT flag set yet, and thus don't require HDCP to be enabled.
Post by: tribalnoise on December 20, 2007, 12:09:00 AM
Post by: xxYoDaddyXX on December 20, 2007, 12:32:00 AM
To someone who knows more about a/v stuff, what advantage (if any) does this give you over using the VGA AV cable on an older 360?
Post by: apexad on December 20, 2007, 12:01:00 AM
QUOTE(xxYoDaddyXX @ Dec 20 2007, 08:32 AM)
Correct me if I am wrong, but can't you get 1080p over VGA on a older non-HDMI 360?
To someone who knows more about a/v stuff, what advantage (if any) does this give you over using the VGA AV cable on an older 360?
Yes, old Xbox 360's can do 1920x1080 over VGA, so the advantage this device has is: None. At least for right now.
However, that assumes the box is in fact just converting the analog signal of VGA or Component to a digital HDMI signal. If this box is somehow actually getting a digital hdcp enabled singal from older Xbox 360's then it could be better. Although, that will only be the case when studios start forcing movies to downsample over analog and non-hdcp digital signals and as my previous post said, they have yet to do this.
Post by: PaddyPat on December 20, 2007, 12:42:00 AM
Post by: SaTaN2k on December 20, 2007, 01:19:00 AM
Post by: sheepie on December 20, 2007, 01:51:00 AM
QUOTE(SaTaN2k @ Dec 20 2007, 10:19 AM)
I have a 24" Dell LCD Monitor (2405FPS) currently connected to the xbox. It can do 1920 x 1200, but with the xbox the best I can get is 1080i. I know if I get a VGA cable I can probably go higher, but I have to mess with colours and what not. Will this cable make me do the same??
vga on the 2405 is not bad and i didnt adjust the colours at all
Post by: SasquatchRVC on December 20, 2007, 01:58:00 AM
QUOTE(PaddyPat @ Dec 20 2007, 02:42 AM)
From the reports I've read it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p unless your tv is 50" or larger. If you can afford a tv that size you can probably afford a new Xbox 360. Otherwise 720p should do...unless you have eagle eyes or something.
Look on AVS Forums. They would be the experts, and they say you definitely can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p, even under 50". That is, of course, if you're the sort of person who's into having the best you can get, even at greater cost, for marginal gain. Ya know, a PC gamer (
). Of course, this is 'converting' the signal, so who knows how great it is. I'd like to see a comparison, maybe-side-by-side pics, of standard, 720p, 1080p, each on component, VGA, HDMI, and this. It would be a really helpful post. Would probably get linked to allover.
Post by: Flagg3 on December 20, 2007, 03:02:00 AM
And incidentally, you CAN get 1080p using component cables on some televisions. I can use 1080p with no problem over component on my Vizio 47" 1080p LCD television.
Post by: profspudhed on December 20, 2007, 03:11:00 AM
Post by: boxxa on December 20, 2007, 03:29:00 AM
Post by: beasty54 on December 20, 2007, 07:14:00 AM
For those talking about HDCP and digital outputs its not going to happen due to the fact that no matter what adapters are made, the non HDMI 360s only output an analogue signal and as far as i'm aware nothing can change that.
Post by: boxxa on December 20, 2007, 08:44:00 AM
QUOTE(beasty54 @ Dec 20 2007, 09:14 AM) 
This device needs to make the 360 think a VGA cable is connected or HD-DVDs will only be output at 1080i rather than 1080p and DVDs wont be upscaled at all.
For those talking about HDCP and digital outputs its not going to happen due to the fact that no matter what adapters are made, the non HDMI 360s only output an analogue signal and as far as i'm aware nothing can change that.
That is what my thinking is. This is a cool idea to add HDMI cable support but you are losing the "true" HDMI purpose since the port in the 360 is analog and the HDMI is digital. The only way to get true HDMI is putting a digital port in the back of the 360.
Post by: pingrr on December 20, 2007, 08:59:00 AM
Post by: alsybub on December 20, 2007, 09:41:00 AM
I would assume - and hope - that this is using the VGA signal and then converting that to an HDMI digital signal. I have seen articles where they directly compare the output from Component, VGA, HDMI and directly from the frame buffer of a devkit and between VGA and HDMI there is absolutely no discernable difference. The only difference is that with HDMI the screen is decoding the signal rather than it being done by the 360 itself.
Essentially HDMI is a way of standardising HD resolutions and implementing anti-copy measures. The only real bonus for consumers is that it will carry a digital audio signal as well.
If using VGA then there are no HD restrictions and so it will upscale DVD to 1080p and there will never be a problem if HDCP is enabled on HDDVD.
For the record I have a Panasonic PH 10 series 42" plasma with VGA, HDMI and DVI and I can definitely tell the difference between 720p and 1080p. I cannot tell the difference between a movie in 1080p over HDMI on PS3 and a movie in 1080p over VGA on my 360. Just so you know, I am obsessed with picture quality and video calibration and I would definitely see a difference.
So, unless you don't have VGA on your screen and you only have HDMI, this product is utterly pointless. If you specifically want HDMI - although VGA is just as good, unless your screen doesn't do a good job of displaying it - then you need to get a 360 with HDMI as this is just converting VGA to HDMI and that fact is that every time a signal is converted it degrades and so the image could look worse than just using a VGA lead.
This post has been edited by alsybub: Dec 20 2007, 05:51 PM
Post by: bill16504 on December 20, 2007, 10:08:00 AM
QUOTE(alsybub @ Dec 20 2007, 05:41 PM)
For the record I have a Panasonic PH 10 series 42" plasma with VGA, HDMI and DVI and I can definitely tell the difference between 720p and 1080p. I cannot tell the difference between a movie in 1080p over HDMI on PS3 and a movie in 1080p over VGA on my 360. Just so you know, I am obsessed with picture quality and video calibration and I would definitely see a difference.
I don't use my 360 for movies, but I can say there is a big difference between VGA set at 1920x1080 vs. the HDMI set at 1080p on my Samsung FP-T5084 50" plasma. The HDMI is alot better. You can notice it right away, just looking at the Dashboard.
And for $90 plus shipping, I'd first sell my 360 and get a new one.
This post has been edited by bill16504: Dec 20 2007, 06:21 PM
Post by: Devedander on December 20, 2007, 09:42:00 AM
QUOTE(xxYoDaddyXX @ Dec 20 2007, 08:32 AM)
To someone who knows more about a/v stuff, what advantage (if any) does this give you over using the VGA AV cable on an older 360?
This allows you to use an HDMI cable which may be smaller than your VGA cable and may allow you to connect to components that don't have VGA input. It should even be possible to convert this to DVI to plug into monitors that have DVI in but no VGA or component.
This would be a very small percentage of the population at this point in time.
Post by: Tiuk on December 20, 2007, 10:18:00 AM
Actually, thinking about it, if you sold your old non-HDMI 360, bought an Arcade, and sold the wireless controller and whatever else it comes with, you probably wouldn't be too far behind. In fact, the difference would probably be less than the $90 that this costs.
This post has been edited by Tiuk: Dec 20 2007, 06:20 PM
Post by: SpIdErXeN on December 20, 2007, 10:27:00 AM
My question is...when I play halo 3 with the xbox 360 dash software set to output 1080i, (using the component cable) Halo3 still looks kind of grainy. If I had one of these cables, would it fix that? I'm thinking that since I don't have the hdmi elite 360, these cables would still give me the same picture as the component cable i'm using now. Help me out guys, I'm on the verge of getting a cable hoping that it'll make the picture better.
Post by: bill16504 on December 20, 2007, 09:52:00 AM
QUOTE(Tiuk @ Dec 20 2007, 06:18 PM)
Actually, thinking about it, if you sold your old non-HDMI 360, bought an Arcade, and sold the wireless controller and whatever else it comes with, you probably wouldn't be too far behind. In fact, the difference would probably be less than the $90 that this costs.
E X A C T L Y... those guys are nuts to think transfering an analog to digital signal is worth $90 plus shipping. You'd be better off selling the old 360 and getting a new one. Heck, you can even look for the 175w 360 while you're at it. It's easy to pick up a Falcon 360 now.
Post by: steveju on December 20, 2007, 10:48:00 AM
QUOTE(Devedander @ Dec 20 2007, 05:18 PM)
It should even be possible to convert this to DVI to plug into monitors that have DVI in but no VGA or component.
HDMI can be converted to DVI-D, but on the older Xbox 360s VGA can be easily converted to DVI-A (or DVI-I, which is D and A). That kind of conversion is only useful if your monitor is DVI-D only.Post by: 88 Ecko Unltd 88 on December 20, 2007, 10:56:00 AM
Post by: apexad on December 20, 2007, 12:29:00 PM
480p
720p
1080i
1080p
versus resolutions for VGA. If this device supports 1080i, which it claims that it does, how would that work over VGA?
Post by: BoNg420 on December 20, 2007, 01:17:00 PM
sell your old system and buy an arcade with HDMI out, seems like a better option.
Post by: Exobex on December 20, 2007, 01:57:00 PM
QUOTE(alsybub @ Dec 20 2007, 04:41 PM)
For the record I have a Panasonic PH 10 series 42" plasma with VGA, HDMI and DVI and I can definitely tell the difference between 720p and 1080p. I cannot tell the difference between a movie in 1080p over HDMI on PS3 and a movie in 1080p over VGA on my 360. Just so you know, I am obsessed with picture quality and video calibration and I would definitely see a difference.
I'd expect you to have better results running in VGA at 1024x768, seeing as that's the native resolution of your plasma panel (specs are here). Anything else is being rescaled up or down by the panel.
Post by: eduardor2k on December 20, 2007, 02:42:00 PM
QUOTE(Exobex @ Dec 20 2007, 09:57 PM)
I'd expect you to have better results running in VGA at 1024x768, seeing as that's the native resolution of your plasma panel (specs are here). Anything else is being rescaled up or down by the panel.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/iamwithstupid.gif)
Since 720p and 1080p are higuer than your native resolution, it means that using a source higher than 720p is worthless, so you are right, you can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p in your TV. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
Post by: The Captian on February 02, 2020, 06:44:00 PM
QUOTE(SaTaN2k @ Dec 20 2007, 03:19 AM)
I have a 24" Dell LCD Monitor (2405FPS) currently connected to the xbox. It can do 1920 x 1200, but with the xbox the best I can get is 1080i. I know if I get a VGA cable I can probably go higher, but I have to mess with colours and what not. Will this cable make me do the same??
I have the 24" Dell 2407 LCD. At first I had it connected via component (max resolution supported was 1080i or 720p). I then upgraded to the VGA cable (running at 1920 x 1080 @ 60 Hz). The picture was much sharper, but colors were extreamly dull. That is untill the last spring update (when expaned color reference was added). Now the picture is amazingly shape and bright.
btw - I sit about 3 feet from my 24" screen while gamming and would have to be blind to not see the difference between 720 and 1080 resolutions through VGA (screen's native resolution is 1920 x 1200 - have thin black bars on top and bottom of screen while in 1:1 aspect ratio at 1080)
Post by: epsilon72 on February 02, 2020, 11:39:00 PM
QUOTE(bill16504 @ Dec 20 2007, 10:08 AM)
I don't use my 360 for movies, but I can say there is a big difference between VGA set at 1920x1080 vs. the HDMI set at 1080p on my Samsung FP-T5084 50" plasma. The HDMI is alot better. You can notice it right away, just looking at the Dashboard.
And for $90 plus shipping, I'd first sell my 360 and get a new one.
Dude, 1920x1080 @60hz is 1080p.
On topic - I suppose this would be good only for those who really want a 1080p picture, can't get 1080p through vga/component, and have a non-hdmi 360. Even then it's still kind of overpriced...
Post by: englishnamja on December 21, 2007, 05:10:00 AM
Post by: JCDenton@AS on February 03, 2020, 11:24:00 AM
QUOTE(englishnamja @ Dec 21 2007, 12:10 PM)
why isnt microsoft making these and giving it away to customers who brought the older model in the past year.. shops being what they are selling the older model even now if they can get away with it...
What are you on about? Ms dont even think that hdmi is even necessary, they added it due it popular demand. This whole thing is a load of crap. Any conversion of video is going to reduce the quality and it sure as hell wont improve it. Just stick with a vga cable its still going to be the best you will need. Dont wase your money.
Post by: alsybub on December 26, 2007, 08:25:00 AM
QUOTE(eduardor2k @ Dec 20 2007, 09:42 PM)
Since 720p and 1080p are higuer than your native resolution, it means that using a source higher than 720p is worthless, so you are right, you can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p in your TV.
Actually. you also need to take into account the distance at which you sit away from your screen. An image at 1024x768 on a 1024x768 screen may not necassarily look as good as an image in a higher resolution that has then been downscaled. We're all told that perfect pixel mapping with the correct resolution is the way to go but I know from plenty of experience that when you have a more than capable screen with a good scaler built in that when you sit a normal distance from the screen with a higher resolution downscaled it does in fact look better to the naked eye. Yes, it may be an illusion but that illusion means that to the the eye there is a much better image there. I notice this the most on PS3. I can see so much more detail in 1080 than 720 and according to theory it should look the best in 720 because that's closer to native BUT when I am sat in front of my screen in my lounge that simply is NOT the case.
The only thing that looks best at the native resolution is my PC because of the size of text. That's it.
If I pressed my face up to the screen then I would see a difference but as soon as you are sitting more than 9 feet away it looks superb over the native resolution. You can give me all sorts of theories, articles and definitions but nothing beats seeing it for yourself.
A couple of years ago I would have said the same as you but after actually tweaking with different software, expensive cables & expensive scalers in a real world situation my conclusion is that displaying the correct resolution is only the best solution when sitting at an un-naturally close viewing distance. At the end of the day our eyes are not digital.
Also, pc monitors don't count in this because you do naturally sit close them and so in that situation the best resolution is native. I know I lot of people everywhere will completely disagree and tell me I'm stupid but I've managed to prove it to plenty of non-believers who know a lot about this stuff by just showing them.
EDIT:
As for VGA not looking better than HDMI. You will notice that earlier in my previous post I mentioned about screens not displaying the signal so well. So, it's not down to it being a worse signal but that the screen just doesn't handle it properly and so indeed one will look better than the other.
Post by: alsybub on December 26, 2007, 08:51:00 AM
http://www.avforums....ad.php?t=312431
These things are not as black and white as you think