Post by: Iriez on July 26, 2003, 08:41:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| =================================================== |¯| /¯/ ¯ /¯/ | |/ / |¯¯¯ |¯| /¯||¯||¯¯¯ / / | / | | | | / || || | / / | | |_| || |/ |/ /| |_| | ____ | | | | | _ || /| / | _ ||____| / / | | | | | || / | / | | | | / / |_| _|_| |_||_/ |_/ |_| |_| /_/ _ =================================================== THE EMULATOR WITH A FUNNY NAME =================================================== Kawa-X is the XBox port of a Windows emulator I made some time ago named Kawaks. It allows to play titles from the Capcom CPS1, CPS2 and SNK NeoGeo library. Pretty much all games are supported, even these 90mb monsters that would normally not fit into the XBox's limited 64mb RAM. (This emu includes a significant amount of black magic  ) For the more recent encrypted NeoGeogames, though, only the decrypted form is supported (64Mb of RAM won't allow to do the decryption). Kawaks (PC version) can produce decrypted sets, if you only have encrypted versions... See the included list of supported titles for more info... There's the following goodies waiting inside : - CPS1, CPS2, NeoGeo support (doh) - Plenty of nice eye candy video filters (more about that later) - Redefinable controls (including handy macros like keys to do 3 punches, etc) - Can save screenshots - Savestates (8 slots per game) - You can play NeoGeo games either in arcade mode or in console mode - You can switch region (language settings) for every supported CPS2 game. For example, that means you can play the normally japanese only Mighty Pang in english if you want... About video filters. The following video engines are supported: - Regular blurry non filtered output. - AdvanceMAME 2x scaling - A zoom 200% output named Zoom 2x (fast and sharp) - 2xSai - Super2xSai - SuperEagle - A RGB effect which I named Monitor matrix that simulates lowres monitor ouput Imo, the one that looks the best is AdvanceMAME2x, so I made it the default. 2xSai, Super2xSai, SuperEagle ask for a lot of horsepower from the console, so I don't recommend using them (can cause slowdowns). AdvanceMAME2x looks just as good and is way faster anyway. The files Kawa-X generates are stored on E:\TDATA000FA7E That's where you'll find the screenshots you saved and the settings for all the games. Normally you won't need to mess with there but well... The rest is pretty obvious, there's even an help screen built in to remind you the controls to access the features in the emu. Roms go in the \ROMS subdirectory. For NeoGeo games you need the NeoGeo BIOS file (neogeo.zip) too... That's all folks, go play now  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr K aka MHz |
Enjoy = )
MOD EDIT: Fixed your \ paths.
Post by: pike on July 26, 2003, 07:49:00 AM
Sweet Jesus, VIRTUAL MEMORY - you clever bugger!
MAME0X, have u seen THIS?
Post by: Iriez on July 26, 2003, 07:51:00 AM
| QUOTE (pike @ Jul 26 2003, 10:43 AM) |
| MAME0X, have u seen THIS? |
Yes...so please dont pester guys. They know whats up.
Post by: pike on July 26, 2003, 07:54:00 AM
Lol - IT'S COMING. YOU KNOW it's coming!
Post by: amrod on July 26, 2003, 08:57:00 AM
took like <45 seconds for emu to load... made the HD in xbox really loud, otherwise it works great
Post by: HotRice on July 26, 2003, 08:04:00 AM
Post by: Iriez on July 26, 2003, 08:13:00 AM
Post by: xiaNaix on July 26, 2003, 08:15:00 AM
"OH MY GOD!!!"
Great work! I know what I'm going to be doing for the rest of the weekend. ;)
Post by: Dahak on July 26, 2003, 08:25:00 AM
| QUOTE (xiaNaix @ Jul 26 2003, 06:09 PM) |
| In the immortal words of Joey Styles... "OH MY GOD!!!" |
lol don't make me sic the FBI on you...
Post by: Gillian_Seed on July 26, 2003, 08:26:00 AM
Post by: digitalman42 on July 26, 2003, 08:28:00 AM
Post by: digitalman42 on July 26, 2003, 08:34:00 AM
Post by: tom_g05 on July 26, 2003, 09:29:00 AM
GAWD....ALL this stuff is making me dizzy...Xports massive releases then this....XBOX has the power now..actually it always has. Thank u Thank u Thank u Thank U/.........
Post by: CraiZEAH on July 26, 2003, 08:50:00 AM
Post by: gonkle on July 26, 2003, 08:50:00 AM
I have only the one with the "n" at the end.
great work so far
thx
Post by: XenoFire on July 26, 2003, 09:48:00 AM
Post by: wongtong2g on July 26, 2003, 09:56:00 AM
Post by: XenoFire on July 26, 2003, 10:14:00 AM
Post by: jizzlobber on July 26, 2003, 10:17:00 AM
Post by: Iriez on July 26, 2003, 10:31:00 AM
The reason it does this is it scans and compares all the roms in your folder to the .dat as its launching, instead of say, launching, loading rom scan list, scan ...etc.
Im sure you'll see another release today with that fixed and a mappable rompath = )
Post by: jizzlobber on July 26, 2003, 10:38:00 AM
Post by: saulin on July 26, 2003, 10:39:00 AM
Post by: greenmile on July 26, 2003, 10:40:00 AM
So you know, here are the newer NEOGEO roms that require decryption:
Bangbead
Ganryu
Garou - Mark of the wolves
King of Fighters'99
King of Fighters 2000
King of Fighters 2001
King of Fighters 2002
Metal Slug 3
Metal Slug 4
Nightmare in the Dark
Prehistoric Isle 2
Rage of the Dragons
Sengoku 3
Strikers 1945+
Zupapa
Good work on this emu, hopefully he can share his secrets and relieve the xbox of its memory limitation.
Post by: woo on July 26, 2003, 10:42:00 AM
Screw the N64? lol... yes and for $5 they throw in a free cartridge emulator right? me no think so. N64 emulation is deservedly important for emulation fans and this news "could" be news for those fans also...
So, could those in the know, let the rest of us know which roms that wouldn't run before on any other emulator, now work because of the "black magic" we've been treated to?
cheers..
Post by: Koitsu on July 26, 2003, 10:43:00 AM
±ê.....Ǥµ½....±êðoܵ½©?!!it...it already....damn.....
Post by: DaGamePimp on July 26, 2003, 10:45:00 AM
[ even the old ones that work on Kawaks for PC ] . I am not sure what is going on ... anybody have any ideas ?Thanks ,
--DGP--
Post by: jizzlobber on July 26, 2003, 10:48:00 AM
can someone please describe decryption for an ignoramus like myself please?
Will mslug3.zip work?
Post by: greenmile on July 26, 2003, 10:51:00 AM
I don't know about decrypting mame roms, the author said that his PC version of this emu can do it, so just download that and check it out. Google it man
Post by: jizzlobber on July 26, 2003, 11:01:00 AM
wonder what i'm doing wrong?
Post by: DaGamePimp on July 26, 2003, 11:15:00 AM
---DGP---
Post by: jizzlobber on July 26, 2003, 11:27:00 AM
not in the media folder?
EDIT- tried it without ROMS folder and it still won't boot, any ideas?
Post by: linear on July 26, 2003, 11:42:00 AM
i have an xecuter1 and all IGR off in evo-x
Kawa-X is running from e:emuKawa-X
Post by: jizzlobber on July 26, 2003, 11:46:00 AM
Dunno mate, I've never had this prob before, I simply FTP'd the contents across to my emu folder like I do with everything else.
tried launching from MXM and evo-x but no go... I also use Xselect but I don't see how that would hurt.
what a bummer, i've been waiting a long time to play metal slug x and 3.
Post by: Iriez on July 26, 2003, 11:58:00 AM
| QUOTE (woo @ Jul 26 2003, 12:42 PM) |
| So, could those in the know, let the rest of us know which roms that wouldn't run before on any other emulator, now work because of the "black magic" we've been treated to? cheers.. |
Metal slug 3 for one (mslug3.zip is 80mb, with the decrypted .zip that you need to play it with, is 26mb)
And it plays *perfect*
Use kawaks to decrypt...the pc version does it.
Loads fine for me with the latest evox and 4976.02
Post by: jizzlobber on July 26, 2003, 11:59:00 AM
dammit
Post by: Mechazilla on July 26, 2003, 12:06:00 PM
Post by: woo on July 26, 2003, 12:08:00 PM
Post by: gonkle on July 26, 2003, 12:09:00 PM
roms have to be in the roms /folder, means create a folder roms in the main dir,
put the shit in it and go.
I had no problems runnint it,
have a xecuter bios, not the latest, running xbmp as dash.
maybe my bios runs debug code?
I can´t find an option in winkawaks to decrypt it? please help!
Post by: jizzlobber on July 26, 2003, 12:21:00 PM
do I need to change anything in deXBE?
Just patch it?
EDIT- no go, i'll try another patcher
EDIT2- no again, I'm gonna punch myself in the balls now.
Post by: sck on July 26, 2003, 12:26:00 PM
Post by: wreckk on July 26, 2003, 12:33:00 PM
Post by: cninja on July 26, 2003, 12:45:00 PM
Post by: Iriez on July 26, 2003, 12:47:00 PM
| QUOTE (Dante_Ali @ Jul 26 2003, 02:39 PM) |
Uhhh.. you sure you read that right?  |
No, i didnt lol =p
My mistake =)
Post by: jizzlobber on July 26, 2003, 12:48:00 PM
| QUOTE (linear @ Jul 26 2003, 08:16 PM) |
| yeah it's a debug exe. just patch to retail with dexbe as iriez said. works fine here now. |
I must have a different prob, you said it was hanging at the evox loading screen. it goes back to evox for me.
I noticed the other person with my problem is using the same bios (X2 4977) so maybe that has something to do with it. I might try another bios tomorrow.
Post by: Iriez on July 26, 2003, 12:49:00 PM
Rename ng-lo.rom to 000-lo.lo in the zip, and give it a whirl.
Also, no, its *not* a debug build. You should not need to use any patchers on it. It was a release build and should be ready for retail. I use a xecuter bios , so it will boot it regardless of whether its debug or retail.
Post by: jizzlobber on July 26, 2003, 12:52:00 PM
Post by: Habs69M on July 26, 2003, 01:02:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Anyone with neogeo bios issues, you might have a old version. Rename ng-lo.rom to 000-lo.lo in the zip, and give it a whirl. |
ok this worked for me with Art of Fighting 3: The Path of the Warrior
but i added Garou: Mark of the Wolves (garou.zip) and Metal Slug 3 (mslug3.zip)
But in the scrolling menu where you see all your neo games both of these games dont show up in the list??
Any help please
Post by: wreckk on July 26, 2003, 01:03:00 PM
Post by: alansari on July 26, 2003, 01:09:00 PM
oooh this is what I have been waiting for!!!EDIT: oh by the way... how do I decrypt them when the windows kawaks doesn't even load them... hmmmm
Post by: gokuguy on July 26, 2003, 01:23:00 PM
| QUOTE (alansari @ Jul 26 2003, 10:09 PM) |
| sweet thnx dude oooh this is what I have been waiting for!!! EDIT: oh by the way... how do I decrypt them when the windows kawaks doesn't even load them... hmmmm |
Exactly what I was wondering...
Post by: reloaded on July 26, 2003, 01:32:00 PM
Can somebody post how to getting it to work exactly like post a link wich bios your using
and stuff
thanx,
Post by: Craptastic! on July 26, 2003, 02:04:00 PM
*runs off to "the usual places"*
Post by: hosh on July 26, 2003, 02:13:00 PM
Post by: xiaNaix on July 26, 2003, 02:16:00 PM
http://www.neogeofor...aksguide6.shtml
Post by: digitalman42 on July 26, 2003, 02:24:00 PM
Post by: Craptastic! on July 26, 2003, 02:26:00 PM
Post by: hosh on July 26, 2003, 02:30:00 PM
| QUOTE (digitalman42 @ Jul 26 2003, 11:24 PM) |
| do you HAVE to decrypt the games to work, or does it just make them smaller? im still confused. |
Of course not, we just like to decrypt ROMs for no reason, dude. It's like a party for us. Seeing that decryption finish is like an orgasm!
In other words; Yes, you have to decrypt them.
Post by: HumanClay on July 26, 2003, 02:32:00 PM
Post by: digitalman42 on July 26, 2003, 02:47:00 PM
Post by: bubbathemaster on July 26, 2003, 03:29:00 PM
Post by: Bender_Unit_1 on July 26, 2003, 03:32:00 PM
-Bender
Post by: Zero on July 26, 2003, 03:43:00 PM
Post by: jammi on July 26, 2003, 03:44:00 PM
Post by: Zero on July 26, 2003, 03:48:00 PM
Post by: parsifal968 on July 26, 2003, 03:52:00 PM
Jesus! Virtual Memory!Good, very very good! Thanks!
Post by: jammi on July 26, 2003, 04:05:00 PM
| QUOTE (Zero @ Jul 27 2003, 12:48 AM) |
| Read the other posts in this thread, they have both been said to work. |
yeah ppl say it works but how do you decrypte these games as they dont show up in the pc version of kawa?
Post by: simbot82 on July 26, 2003, 04:14:00 PM
Did the author of this port give any indication as to how he created virtual memory?? Would have been a fair effort
Post by: COCKLES on July 26, 2003, 04:38:00 PM
KOF '99 = Silky Smooth
Metal Slug 3 = Silky Smooth
Post by: Dante_Ali on July 26, 2003, 04:39:00 PM
| QUOTE (simbot82 @ Jul 27 2003, 01:14 AM) |
| Wow this is really cool. I love arcade emulation don't get me wrong, but the implications this has for all the larger 'roms' (ones that require more ram than is available) on other consoles is what is really really cool. Did the author of this port give any indication as to how he created virtual memory?? Would have been a fair effort |
Yeah... I remember in early conversations regarding the possibility of virtual memory that many thought it would slow down performance immensely for ROMs as all data had to be accessible in RAM for a ROM to work properly without stuttering or grinding to a halt - so by all accounts the Kawaks' guy implementation of virtual memory must be way above decent because it runs absolutely perfect.
I'm very excited to see more emulators in the future with virtual memory implemented. Who knows, maybe it could even be implemented in Linux (though I don't know what for as it already has virtual memory).
Post by: Craptastic! on July 26, 2003, 05:36:00 PM
The implementation of virtual memory is a huge step forward for homebrew Xbox development in general. Provided that Mr K is willing to reveal how he did it, I can't wait to see how other developers will take advantage of it.
Post by: NeoCverA on July 26, 2003, 05:38:00 PM
First off - It hung on the Evo X splash screen after i loaded it
Solution: I dragged the Kawa-X default.xbe into xbepatch.exe and it created a new "patched" xbe file.......sent it to xbox and it worked fine.......
Second: Garou Mark of the Wolves and Metal Slug 3 were not showing up.....
Used the techniques described for Kawaks to create the decrypted roms.......and Garou worked fine...........
Metal Slug 3 required me to locate a new rom named metalslug3nd
these were my Primary games i wanted to try out.......
Worked very nice, very impressed.......
only thing is the screen is off center (to the right)....havent read about adjusting that though .....so im not askin (yet)
Post by: mamajo on July 26, 2003, 06:19:00 PM
Post by: asdfzxcf on July 26, 2003, 06:24:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| and I noticed that the analog stick for the original Xbox controller is surprisingly responsive. |
Well, in my case, the analog stick is way too responsive. So much so that I couldn't play any of the games. The sticks appears to move to the right constantly. I couldn't adjust it. It's a shame though, cuz' otherwise kawax is a wonderful emulator. I am frustrated...
Oh, I did try two different controllers (regular and type-s) and have the same problem on both. urghhhh...
Post by: NeoCverA on July 26, 2003, 06:39:00 PM
Other Games Tested
Kof99
Strikers 1945 Plus
In addition to
Garou Mark of the Wolves
Metal Slug 3
Still need to test KOF2k, Kof2k1
(still making the roms/ downloading)
Post by: simbot82 on July 26, 2003, 06:42:00 PM
| QUOTE (mamajo @ Jul 27 2003, 03:19 AM) |
| Truly amazing. When this was released I had no games for it so I picked up X-Men Vs. Street Fighter and it works PERFECT! I never played this game before but now it has to be one of my favourite roms of any system. This emu would be amazing if it could only play this one game because as of now MameoX can't. |
Next release of MameOX as the current release of MAME now has it playable
Post by: sck on July 26, 2003, 06:46:00 PM
Post by: KoEnShAkU on July 26, 2003, 07:02:00 PM
;
Post by: wreckk on July 26, 2003, 07:03:00 PM
Post by: Dante_Ali on July 26, 2003, 07:08:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| I've yet to try any of the CPS2 games w/ kawax (only neogeo stuff so far) and i'll probably switch as the filtering techniques available look much better on my Sony Wega XBR versus FBAx's point filtering. |
With AdvanceMAME 2x enabled, I think it's running at fullspeed. Boy does it look good - it owns FBAx in every way except for the Cave games.
Post by: mamajo on July 26, 2003, 07:09:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Truly amazing. When this was released I had no games for it so I picked up X-Men Vs. Street Fighter and it works PERFECT! I never played this game before but now it has to be one of my favourite roms of any system. This emu would be amazing if it could only play this one game because as of now MameoX can't. Next release of MameOX as the current release of MAME now has it playable |
I tried it on MameoX the current version and it will not load due to not enough virtual memory.
Post by: NeoCverA on July 26, 2003, 07:29:00 PM
my love for the NEO-GEO is where my name comes from not that dude from Matrix...
Ok
I got kof99, 2k1, Sengoku3, Strikers 1945 Plus, Garou: Mark of the Wolves, Metal Slug 3 all working.....
I mention these because these are roms that have Decrypted sets...or the need to decrypt..
still need to make a Kof2k.........
DOH, just finished!
time to test!
Post by: Ces2k3 on July 26, 2003, 07:45:00 PM
Post by: Beelzebud on July 26, 2003, 08:25:00 PM
Post by: NeoCverA on July 26, 2003, 08:27:00 PM
everytime i try to make a Decrypted version, it always just gives me a WHITE GRID and i can enter some settings screens or soemthin....but the game doesnt load.....
happens on the Windows EMU as well as the xbox....
ive gotten 2 different roms and same results from both however the kof2000 rom works (on the pc emu).....
so my source rom seems to be ok........ive done this with all the others.....this is the only one giving me problems.
anyone help?
Post by: grug on July 26, 2003, 08:41:00 PM
]Works great! Just dropped in to say thanks. Enjoying the 2 player Metal Slug 3 goodness.
Post by: Iriez on July 26, 2003, 08:57:00 PM
| QUOTE (ruffles_x @ Jul 26 2003, 09:43 PM) |
| can some one tell how to modify the .dat to play Kof2002 and Mslug 4?, thanks! |
No, someone cannot. The author purposefully did this for whatever his reasons are. It has NOTHING to do with the dat file, so you wont be able to 'make' it do anything.
Respect the author and dont post bullshit.
Post by: Iriez on July 26, 2003, 08:59:00 PM
| QUOTE (grug @ Jul 26 2003, 10:41 PM) |
| Works great! Just dropped in to say thanks. Enjoying the 4 player Metal Slug 3 goodness. |
What 4 player mslug goodness? Neogeo only had 2 players.
Post by: mr jones on July 26, 2003, 09:12:00 PM
| QUOTE (Iriez @ Jul 27 2003, 12:59 AM) | ||
What 4 player mslug goodness? Neogeo only had 2 players. |
I was going to ask the same thing. That's not even a feature in the MVS setup for MS3...
Man I'm impressed. The fact that Garou, Metal Slug X and Last Blade 2 all run beautifully astound me. I haven't been able to get Metal Slug 3 to work correctly, but I'm still trying. Once that works, my turn to the darkside will be complete.
One question Iriez, have you been able to gain access to the test menu for Neo Geo? The dip switches for Capcom games all work fine (pressing right on the right control stick), but that doesn't work for Neo games, and I haven't found anything in the documentation that says any other method.
Very many thanks to Mr K - this is an astounding release.
Post by: jizzlobber on July 26, 2003, 09:12:00 PM
It still goes back to dash whenever i try to boot it, this is insanely frustrating cause it sounds so good.
Post by: Beelzebud on July 26, 2003, 09:18:00 PM
Anyone around here really know for sure it's using virtual memory?
Post by: gokuguy on July 26, 2003, 09:22:00 PM
Post by: Lightsier on July 26, 2003, 09:23:00 PM
Post by: erexx on July 26, 2003, 09:32:00 PM
| QUOTE (mr jones @ Jul 27 2003, 05:12 AM) | ||
|
The only way I could get it to run was to include both the encrypted and decrypted rom sets.
I tried merging the two but it look like it still need files, that have the same file name but are different, from both ROMs sets ... I really dont know.
I tried cleaning it up with RomCenter and manually...
eventually I got it too work just like I said I did....
This is a grand day for Xbox emulation.
To the author: Thank you so much.
Some -Amazing- "Black Magic" for sure.
I just finished MSlug 3 for the first time ever.
It was a killer quarter hog in the arcade for sure....
so glad I got up early this morning...
and this posted on X-S not more than 15min later...
I hope this technology makes it way into other ram limited xbox emulators...
again Awesome work and
Thank You!
Post by: Dante_Ali on July 26, 2003, 09:34:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| One question Iriez, have you been able to gain access to the test menu for Neo Geo? The dip switches for Capcom games all work fine (pressing right on the right control stick), but that doesn't work for Neo games, and I haven't found anything in the documentation that says any other method. |
Accessing the test menu should be the same for Neogeo. (pushing the right thumbstick left) Perhaps you have enabled Console Mode - in which case you have to switch back to Arcade to access the Test Menu.
Iriez: There are definitely some hooks in the default.xbe for Metal Slug 4, Rage of the Dragons, King of Fighters 2002 and even Matrimelee. Open it in a binary editor and you can see entries for mslug4nd, matrim and kof2k2. I guess he forgot to delete them.
Post by: Lightsier on July 26, 2003, 09:44:00 PM
Post by: Donan Fear on July 26, 2003, 10:03:00 PM
1. V and M roms from game.zip
2. Non-encrypted P roms from gamen.zip
3. Decrypted C roms generated by Winkawaks
Zip them all to an archive named gamend.zip (except for kof2000 and kof2001 that have to be named kof2knd.zip and kof2k1nd.zip respectively to stay within the good old dos 8.3 filename limit.) and you're done. You don't need the (huge) encrypted rom archive.
Post by: Beelzebud on July 26, 2003, 10:15:00 PM
Post by: Iriez on July 26, 2003, 10:50:00 PM
| QUOTE (Beelzebud @ Jul 26 2003, 11:18 PM) |
| Here is my question. Is this emu truely using a form of virtual memory, or is the key here the decryption of the roms on a PC beforehand? Anyone around here really know for sure it's using virtual memory? |
First of all, the decrypted roms are only a small part of the parent rom. You need mslug3.zip AND mslug3nd.zip in order to play Metal Slug 3.
That brings you to about...oh, 110mb?
Xbox has, 64MB of RAM?
You tell me, is this using paging?
Kinda lame to even question it.
Dante_Ali: Suppose these 'hooks' can be used in some way (i really doubt they can), are you going to be the one to insult this author that just brought you this CLOSED SOURCE emulator to the xbox, by reversing what he purposefully left out?
I hope you are not, along with anyone else.
Post by: asdfzxcf on July 26, 2003, 10:58:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Well, in my case, the analog stick is way too responsive. So much so that I couldn't play any of the games. The sticks appears to move to the right constantly. I couldn't adjust it. |
Okay, an update. I tried a few CPS1/CPS2 games and had no control problem whatsoever. So it appears to be a problem with neogeo roms only.
btw, which version of the neogeo bios you guys are using? There are three versions out there?
Post by: Beelzebud on July 26, 2003, 11:02:00 PM
And for the record, I am running Metal Slug 3 with my newly created decrypted rom named mslug3nd.zip. I don't have a mslug3.zip file in my directory and it's working. The data in my rom set does add up to right around 100mb, so I see your point. I wasn't trying to be lame....
I'm just exited about this emu and am curious.... Sorry
Post by: BombProofPlane on July 26, 2003, 11:09:00 PM
maybe some kaillera support would be good for another release because everything else is just perfect (kaillera is the online component used in just about every recent emu on the pc lots of players)
Post by: erexx on July 27, 2003, 12:11:00 AM
| QUOTE (Donan Fear @ Jul 27 2003, 06:03 AM) |
| You need three things to make your own fully decrypted romset: 1. V and M roms from game.zip 2. Non-encrypted P roms from gamen.zip 3. Decrypted C roms generated by Winkawaks Zip them all to an archive named gamend.zip (except for kof2000 and kof2001 that have to be named kof2knd.zip and kof2k1nd.zip respectively to stay within the good old dos 8.3 filename limit.) and you're done. You don't need the (huge) encrypted rom archive. |
Those are great instructions and I would have never seriously figured that out on my own.
Donan Fear
Thank you, great post.
As for -hacking- the Kawa-X emu to support roms... please.... have some respect...
even though I know most would Really Want this, of coarse, just be carefull not
to bite the hand that feeds....
what has been given here has not been done before....
Post by: CraiZEAH on July 27, 2003, 12:32:00 AM
Some titles like KOF97 have already from the arcade awfull controls, which is weird.
Try out to play Garou, it has normal controls, just as it should be.
And heh, if your stick is moving constantly ur stick was hold to the right when initializing the emu, as it reads the centre at that moment (or so i think)
Post by: AnThRaX on July 27, 2003, 12:40:00 AM
Post by: erexx on July 27, 2003, 12:43:00 AM
Post by: AnThRaX on July 27, 2003, 12:46:00 AM
Post by: AnThRaX on July 27, 2003, 12:53:00 AM
Post by: DaGamePimp on July 27, 2003, 12:53:00 AM
this is just getting silly now , this thing still will not load any neo roms . I have never had an EMu problem that I could not work out so this is driving me NUTS !!! I can get any of my roms working on all the PC emus but not 1 damn rom will load in the Kawa-X emu [ too damn strange 
] .-- Oh, and my win-Kawaks version will not decrypt any of the new roms either [ what the heck is up with that ] , can't get any of the C roms .
-- I am about to give up on this Emu even though I love NeoGeo games
.-- Thanks for any suggestions [ and yes I had read through the entire thread ] ,
---DGP---
_______________
*** Got it working , turns out the Bios [ neogeo.zip ] that worked for all the other PC emus would not work for Kawa-X so a new bios fixed me right up . Still have the Decrypting problem however
. ***
Post by: jizzlobber on July 27, 2003, 12:59:00 AM
Post by: erexx on July 27, 2003, 01:02:00 AM
Read the SupportedGames.txt to find specific rom file name or
Use RomCenter or CLRmame to correct the file names
As always make a backup before you let any program alter your files.
Post by: ZildjianKX on July 27, 2003, 07:30:00 PM
| QUOTE (Iriez @ Jul 27 2003, 07:19 PM) | ||
Heres the situation... Anyone who has this thought is narrowminded. Let me rephrase it. I bought a xbox. I OWN this xbox. It is MY xbox to do what i please with it. Pirating Games IS NOT TOLERATED. What i do to my own xbox is MY responsibility, and MY right. MS are a bunch of bastards to say that you cannot modify your OWN PROPERTY. Ok, got it corky? Lets see. PS- I edited and closed the thread, and xantium deleted after. If you are going to lose respect, lose respect towards me, i certianlly dont give a flying fuck. PSS- For anyone who is wondering, Alfa_gta's account is now banned because of the blantant kick in the face to a fine developer. |
Yes, MS are bastards, yes, MHz is a fine developer and has probably the best Xbox and PC emulator I know of.
But you're starting a HELL of a double standard here. If I have a legal backup of Metal Slug 4 and circumvent an emulator's restriction I would get banned, but if I make a legal backup and circumvent MS's protection I get praised. That's fucked up. You're picking and choosing.
Post by: erexx on July 27, 2003, 07:48:00 PM
the point is this...
Yesterday many would have considered it a Privilege to be able to play MSX or MS3 on their xbox's.
Yet today some consider it their Right!?
(how much did anyone pay for that emu and the rom(s) ? )
How childish, how greedy, what arrogance displayed here.
VM for an Emulator on hardware that's limited to 64MB of ram... yep thats an easy one....
Now this could risk the very open -possibility- of never getting official MS4 and KOF2K2 support.
How could this effect opening the door for VM for ALL emulators on the xbox?
Congratulations on finding the hack for this... and posting it.
I am sure it took -hours- of digging through script kiddie notes to figure it out.
(not unlike coding the emu from scratch.. ha!)
Yea... 20 projects just waiting in the wings... to be treated just like this one... what a load.
Who gets kicked in nuts next for nothing?
Keep this thread clean... its not about the other thread that absolutely deserved what it got.
Post by: Iriez on July 27, 2003, 08:03:00 PM
| QUOTE (ZildjianKX @ Jul 27 2003, 09:30 PM) |
| But you're starting a HELL of a double standard here. If I have a legal backup of Metal Slug 4 and circumvent an emulator's restriction I would get banned, but if I make a legal backup and circumvent MS's protection I get praised. That's fucked up. You're picking and choosing. |
First of all, how on earth would you have a legal backup of metal slug 4? What, did you buy the arcade box? If the above statement was true, somehow i imagine you wouldnt be using a emulator, let alone posting in a forum about something you obviously dont understand.
Let me get this straight, you think im going to 'praise' you for making a legal backup of your game?
Uh? Where on EARTH are you pulling this jibberish from?
Listen, if your going to try to tell me im wrong, you have to first be coherent enough to think.
Post by: ZildjianKX on July 27, 2003, 08:08:00 PM
| QUOTE (Iriez @ Jul 27 2003, 08:03 PM) | ||
First of all, how on earth would you have a legal backup of metal slug 4? What, did you buy the arcade box? If the above statement was true, somehow i imagine you wouldnt be using a emulator, let alone posting in a forum about something you obviously dont understand. Let me get this straight, you think im going to 'praise' you for making a legal backup of your game? Uh? Where on EARTH are you pulling this jibberish from? Listen, if your going to try to tell me im wrong, you have to first be coherent enough to think. |
First of all, I own the Metal Slug 4 cart... so stop trying to call me "incoherent". If I want to run it on my xbox, then its none of your business. I actually own a game... imagine that.
Second, this whole forum seems to adore people like project x when they made it possible to backup the Enter the Matrix. So get a clue.
You do realize they sell games, right?
Post by: Iriez on July 27, 2003, 08:19:00 PM
| QUOTE (ZildjianKX @ Jul 27 2003, 10:08 PM) |
| First of all, I own the Metal Slug 4 cart... so stop trying to call me "incoherent". If I want to run it on my xbox, then its none of your business. I actually own a game... imagine that. Second, this whole forum seems to adore people like project x when they made it possible to backup the Enter the Matrix. So get a clue. You do realize they sell games, right? |
What is NOT my buisness is what you do with your neo geo cart. Why you are even in this forum trying to argue over the subject when you do infact the cart...blows me away. Makes absolutly no sense.
As a moderator, ANYTHING you post in this forum is my buisness.
Thirdly, what does pirate kiddies backing up games with project-x have to do with this conversation? It has absolutly nothing to do with kawa-x, metal slug 4, or your rights. HDD LOADER doesnt allow you to backup enter the matrix by the way...so you might want to 'get a clue'
Yes, i realize they sell neo geo cartridges in japan. I was not aware you were into it. Most people that actually buy the cartridges for the systems are not here on a xbox emulator forum talking about the game they own.
Post by: ZildjianKX on July 27, 2003, 08:38:00 PM
| QUOTE (Iriez @ Jul 27 2003, 08:19 PM) |
| Thirdly, what does pirate kiddies backing up games with project-x have to do with this conversation? It has absolutly nothing to do with kawa-x, metal slug 4, or your rights. HDD LOADER doesnt allow you to backup enter the matrix by the way...so you might want to 'get a clue' |
It has to do w/ our conversation because I was saying people are praised that allow for game backups... like project x's fix that renamed the Enter the Matrix game files. It allows you to backup the game to the xbox's hard drive...
Anyways... enough arguing by me. I'll just another 6 months or so until MHz adds support for Metal Slug 4. Damn great game. Honestly he's just made one of the greatest contributions to the xbox scene in a long time... I just hope he doesn't can it if someone comes out with a ROM hack.
Post by: Ces2k3 on July 27, 2003, 09:01:00 PM
Post by: Iriez on July 27, 2003, 09:03:00 PM
| QUOTE (marcux @ Jul 27 2003, 10:37 PM) |
| Iretch, Iriez, Xantium... Why bother taking this crap from people.. You guys pretty much run xbox-scene.. I'd be deleting posts and banning subnets if I were you.. There is a difference between criticizing and slandering.. I don't want this project going the way of daedlus and NeXgen.. Because people enjoy arguing over free software.. let 'em take it somewhere else.. -Marcux |
This forum is here to express opinions and get help, discuss things, etc.
I would only delete a post that warrants such a action, i.e. causes direct harm to something *important*, or breaks rules.
I will not shut out their voice of freedom for nothing, nor will i ban him for having a opinion on the matter. People can slander all they want, most of the time its comical.
Post by: ZildjianKX on July 27, 2003, 11:03:00 PM
| QUOTE (marcux @ Jul 27 2003, 08:37 PM) |
| Iretch, Iriez, Xantium... Why bother taking this crap from people.. You guys pretty much run xbox-scene.. I'd be deleting posts and banning subnets if I were you.. There is a difference between criticizing and slandering.. I don't want this project going the way of daedlus and NeXgen.. Because people enjoy arguing over free software.. let 'em take it somewhere else.. -Marcux |
Thanks for wanting to get me banned
Post by: enigmatl on July 28, 2003, 12:40:00 AM
Post by: Iriez on July 28, 2003, 12:46:00 AM
| QUOTE (enigmatl @ Jul 28 2003, 02:38 AM) |
| How is the circumventation and exploitation of an "unsupported emulator" any different? |
As its been explained about 5 times now (you obviously either didnt comprehend it, or didnt read it)....
I own my xbox because i bought it. I can do what i please with MY xbox. I dont own games...pirating them is wrong because i dont own them. i PAYED MS for my xbox, so that IT WAS MINE
I DO NOT OWN KAWA-X OR KAWAKS. I DID NOT PAY TO OWN IT.
YOU DO NOT OWN KAWA-X OR KAWAKS. YOU DID NOT PAY TO OWN IT.
NO ONE BUT THE AUTHOR DOES.
HACKING HIS CODE IS CONSIDERED VERY BAD ETHICAL PRACTICE, AND VERY DISRESPECTFUL
Ok, does that lay it out for you good enough, or am i STILL going to get little kids replying to this thread "u guyz r so hypocracy(its hypocrisy btw)....dbl stndardz u r so stupd"
You people need to grow up and realize there is a larger issue at hand than these narrowminded opinions.
Post by: jizzlobber on July 28, 2003, 12:53:00 AM
Post by: enigmatl on July 28, 2003, 12:55:00 AM
| QUOTE (jizzlobber @ Jul 28 2003, 08:53 AM) |
| If someone wants to run MS4 on their xbox they should make their own emulator, otherwise they should be greatful. |
If someone wants their German car to be faster, they should build their own (andnot order the replacement ship) or they should be greatful....NOT.
Post by: enigmatl on July 28, 2003, 01:04:00 AM
Post by: jizzlobber on July 28, 2003, 01:05:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| If someone wants their German car to be faster, they should build their own (andnot order the replacement ship) or they should be greatful....NOT. |
That's a terrible example, way off the point.
Post by: XDAWG on July 28, 2003, 01:13:00 AM
XDAWG
Post by: AnThRaX on July 28, 2003, 02:07:00 AM
| QUOTE (jizzlobber @ Jul 28 2003, 09:53 AM) |
| If someone wants to run MS4 on their xbox they should make their own emulator, otherwise they should be greatful. |
Well said. Well, I appreciate the author for making this possible. But, I still can't get this crap to read my ROMS! Can anyone make a step by step tutorial on what to do as soon as you download. Im sure many people have same problems or diffrent problems as I do.
Post by: Iriez on July 28, 2003, 09:58:00 AM
| QUOTE (enigmatl @ Jul 28 2003, 02:53 AM) |
| I'm afraid you don't read license agreements too well. Wheather you agree or not, when you modify your xbox, you are infringing on the holder of the copywrite. Tech TV explained so in their exploiting the xbox week so dont' even try to go there. |
I wont even bother replying because quite possibly that was the lamest thing i've ever heard.
The guys on techtv are morons.
PS- I dont give a damn about the DMCA ...its a horrible law that has yet to have a large history in court. I would give a good guess it will be thrown out within the next ten years.
http://anti-dmca.org/
Post by: Pjoeloe on July 28, 2003, 12:18:00 PM
| QUOTE (AnThRaX @ Jul 28 2003, 11:07 AM) | ||
Well said. Well, I appreciate the author for making this possible. But, I still can't get this crap to read my ROMS! Can anyone make a step by step tutorial on what to do as soon as you download. Im sure many people have same problems or diffrent problems as I do. |
Doesnt work here neither, I think maybe its our roms or something. Ive been playing with ClrMAMEPro and he found alot missing files and stuff so.
Post by: Koitsu on July 28, 2003, 12:29:00 PM
can someone list what's in the true zip file, so i can get rid of the needless .rom's?
Post by: Pjoeloe on July 28, 2003, 12:40:00 PM
Post by: sck on July 28, 2003, 12:43:00 PM
| QUOTE (Koitsu @ Jul 28 2003, 04:29 PM) |
| i got the predecrypted kof99, but of course, everything wasn't in there. after enough tweaking, copying and renaming, i got it working fine. the problem is that the kof99nd.zip is now a 44MB file compared to 22MB, or whatever. can someone list what's in the true zip file, so i can get rid of the needless .rom's? |
basically if you want to use up the least space, your decrypted romsets must have the m and v roms from the parent rom (kof99 in this case) and also decrypted p roms normally in the xxxxxxxn.zip (the special case for kof99 is that the p roms in kof99n.zip need to be renamed). The final zip size in kof99nd should be 35 megs with the following files:
251-m1.bin
251-v*.bin (* being 1 through 4)
kf99n_c*.rom (* being 1 through 8)
kf99n_p*.rom (* being 1 and 2)
kf99n_s1.rom
and that's it.
Post by: Iriez on July 28, 2003, 01:15:00 PM
| QUOTE (crazymike @ Jul 28 2003, 03:05 PM) |
| So its ethically okay to ignore the laws of the state because they are stupid, yet you are supposed to follow the wishes of 1 anonymous coder? |
Sounds about right to me.
This one anonomous coder *owns* this code, and gave it to us freely. Yes, i would most certianlly respect it, and not the 'states laws' whom restrict technological advancements and freedom.
Yes..i would definitly say so.
Post by: crazymike on July 28, 2003, 01:25:00 PM
Now of course I disobey the law too, only because I do not care lol but that does not mean I would hold a grudge against MS if they went about shutting down sites and such.
And again, I do not consider myself ingrateful just because I think the argument that it is okay to play 2 year old roms but not 2 month old ones. I appreciate what Mhz has done but that does not mean I have to agree with the reasons why he does not want new games being played.
Post by: Dante_Ali on July 28, 2003, 02:01:00 PM
| QUOTE (crazymike @ Jul 28 2003, 10:25 PM) |
| The law is not stupid, MS is evil because they want to protect their investment? I think the law is about right. If a company writes software, they have the right to protect their code. I do not buy into any of this "everything should be open source" BS. If I invent a new toaster, should I have to give up the schematics to my competitors? No, make them figure it out on their own. |
The DMCA goes a bit further than that.
And yes, it's a very stupid law - and one that may yet be reinforced in Europe under the guise of EUCD only because some corporate IP body wants to see IP laws reinforced. Unfortunately the European politicians who actually get to decide if the EUCD will be reinforced or not are so clueless that I highly doubt the EUCD will NOT be reinforced in Europe.
Putting people in prison for providing nice alternative uses of Adobe Acrobat for disabled users just goes too far. Read up on the anti DMCA site that Iriez provided, then respond.
Post by: crazymike on July 28, 2003, 02:12:00 PM
If I write a software program and market it, I do not want some schmuck changing a few graphics, or hacking it slightly and selling it back, making profit off my work. He may have put some work into it, but ultimately the majority of the research and development was done by me.
Now I do think the DMCA is being done in wrong ways when it comes to say writing a program that you mentioned that helps handicapped people access a commercial program better for example. But nobody has the right to take a commercial product and sell it back with your name on it with minor changes.
And you do have the right to open up your xbox and mod it, or tinker with it, but just because it is *your* Xbox now does not mean you have the right to do illegal things with it (such as copying games) just because you are using *your* product to do it.
And I do think the notion that progress has been stalled is a little exaggerated. Open Office is a perfectly free alternative to MS Office and it can export files into any of MS's formats, yet MS is not using the DMCA to go after them. We are hardly living under a Nazi state.
If there is anything that stalls progress, it is the lack of commercial competition. Only less than a decade ago, Intel had hardly any competition and progress moved slowly. However, thanks to AMD we have gone from 400 MHZ CPU's to 3,000 MHZ now in a matter of 5-6 years. This is tremendous. And why is this progressing? Not because AMD is making chips out of the goodness of their heart, but because they are out to make money and capitalism encourages this progress.
A good example that money encourages faster progress is to look at Connectix Virtual Game Station. The emulator, other than having no 3d acceleration support, is much better than the freeware emulators that are out there. It is amazing what a programmer can do when he is actually getting paid. I know some may not believe this, but if there had never been any big software or gaming companies, I truly believe we would still be playing 16-bit games.
Post by: Pjoeloe on July 28, 2003, 02:34:00 PM
Post by: Iriez on July 28, 2003, 02:39:00 PM
| QUOTE (crazymike @ Jul 28 2003, 03:25 PM) |
| The law is not stupid, MS is evil because they want to protect their investment? I think the law is about right. If a company writes software, they have the right to protect their code. I do not buy into any of this "everything should be open source" BS. If I invent a new toaster, should I have to give up the schematics to my competitors? No, make them figure it out on their own. |
Have you even read the DMCA?
"Make them figure it out on their own" goes strongly against the DCMA.
Thats the *entire* point of the law. You cannot purposefully circumvent copyright protection.
If you believe you have the right to 'tinker with what you own' then you would be against the DMCA, as in accordance to the law, doing that would be a illegal act.
The DMCA has *nothing* to do with 'giving out your sources'. Are you confusing it and the GPL ? I think you have the jelly beans mixed up buddy.
Post by: enigmatl on July 28, 2003, 04:05:00 PM
| QUOTE (Iriez @ Jul 28 2003, 05:58 PM) | ||
I wont even bother replying because quite possibly that was the lamest thing i've ever heard. The guys on techtv are morons. PS- I dont give a damn about the DMCA ...its a horrible law that has yet to have a large history in court. I would give a good guess it will be thrown out within the next ten years. http://anti-dmca.org/ |
Ok guys, here's the whole hypocrite philosophy in a nutshell in case you didn't get it from that post, I'll spell it out for you all. Read and laugh along.
The hypocrite's side of this:
"I exploit, I hack, and I probably even copy games. It's my right and my privilege. I don't care if I'm stealing because MS is evil and the laws are stupid. They have no right to tell me what I can and can't do with their xbox because it's not theirs. It's mine. I bought it! Now the author of that emulator??? This guy is my god. I worship him. Don't tell me that he too is an exploiter because that doesn't matter. I love him and will defend him with my life. If he says don't run a certain game on his emulator nevermind doing so is doing exactly what he does - I will not run the game. And if anyone else should discuss it, I shall flame them to the end of the world because I like him and his emulator but I hate MS and the laws and that's how I expect everyone else to feel. If they don't, they are LAME!"
Post by: deusprogrammer on July 28, 2003, 04:11:00 PM
As for all you people arguing over this wonderful emulator, and whether you should hack it or not, or if it's illegal, or whatever...you are all just stupid, sub-standard human beings with nothing better to do that call each other names and argue over a trivial topic. Just do whatever you want and be done with it. And if you are going to debate, there are ways to debate a subject instead of name calling, repeated use of the word "gay", and making pointless, unfounded, or uneducated arguements.
It makes me mad that just any asshole, idiot, or flamer can become a moderator. You all seem to use your power like a kid who has found his dads gun. You all call people stupid more than most newbies call people stupid, and general you just suck. Especially Ben Jeremy and his smart ass comments and ugly fucking porno avatar. Go ahead and ban me you stupid moderator fuckers. I rarely come here for the forums anymore, I come for the news. I avoid the forums because it has become overrun by assholes (moderators and forum goers alike). The only people I have respect for anymore are the humble newbies who kindly ask questions and still offer intelligent ideas (barring the 12 year olds who keep asking for PS2 emulators).
Post by: dazdastardly on July 28, 2003, 04:22:00 PM
it wasnt meant in any disrespect to the author at all... it's just i think we all got different views on how we should repsect software... you think MS really wanted you to add new menu options on the MS dashboard?
Post by: Mage on July 28, 2003, 06:03:00 PM
| QUOTE (deusprogrammer @ Jul 28 2003, 05:11 PM) |
| Getting Kawa to detect ROMs is kinda a pain. For some reason the configurable ROMPath.ini file doesn't seem to be for anything other than decoration (lol). Just leave it set to D:ROMS and put the ROMs into the ..KawaRoms directory. As far as decrypting ROMs it's as easy as putting them through the PC version of Kwaks with the setting under the Tools menu turned on. As for all you people arguing over this wonderful emulator, and whether you should hack it or not, or if it's illegal, or whatever...you are all just stupid, sub-standard human beings with nothing better to do that call each other names and argue over a trivial topic. Just do whatever you want and be done with it. And if you are going to debate, there are ways to debate a subject instead of name calling, repeated use of the word "gay", and making pointless, unfounded, or uneducated arguements. It makes me mad that just any asshole, idiot, or flamer can become a moderator. You all seem to use your power like a kid who has found his dads gun. You all call people stupid more than most newbies call people stupid, and general you just suck. Especially Ben Jeremy and his smart ass comments and ugly fucking porno avatar. Go ahead and ban me you stupid moderator fuckers. I rarely come here for the forums anymore, I come for the news. I avoid the forums because it has become overrun by assholes (moderators and forum goers alike). The only people I have respect for anymore are the humble newbies who kindly ask questions and still offer intelligent ideas (barring the 12 year olds who keep asking for PS2 emulators). |
Quite funny, you talk about people being childish and idiotic for all the name calling, and yet you finish off your post doing the exact same thing.
Way to discredit any valid points you had in your post!
Post by: dazdastardly on July 28, 2003, 06:06:00 PM
| QUOTE (dmb062082 @ Jul 29 2003, 03:03 AM) | ||||
For the record there was a thread very similar to this which was removed because it contradicted the forum admin but i will post it here again one more time.
right about there its the old iriez we all know but then......
Thus stating how iriez really feels about the whole topic and if he wanted to play kof2002 he would and no one would stop him.... please dont let this two faced admin fool you thank you very much! |
stop it already... mods are always right! ... you wont win
Post by: dazdastardly on July 28, 2003, 06:14:00 PM
Post by: XDAWG on July 28, 2003, 06:18:00 PM
XDAWG
Post by: Iriez on July 28, 2003, 06:20:00 PM
Go away.
Post by: Iriez on July 28, 2003, 06:22:00 PM
| QUOTE (XDAWG @ Jul 28 2003, 08:18 PM) |
| You said it yourself. If it doesnt matter what you do why should it matter what everyone else does? XDAWG |
As i said, it doesnt have to do with me, or you playing the game. Thats your own personal issue. However spilling out to the public how you hacked a fine release is unacceptable.
Post by: Iriez on July 28, 2003, 06:23:00 PM
| QUOTE (DeadJB @ Jul 28 2003, 08:21 PM) |
| If it were taking from GPL-ed code, then I really see no reason for the author to even think about complaining, as he's not releasing his own source (which he is supposed to do under GPL). You can't get much more PC-grassroots than the GPL... |
It is not, and it was not.
Kawaks did most of the original NeoGeo work guys. It was around BEFORE FBA even was. Do a little research ; )
Post by: dmb062082 on July 28, 2003, 06:34:00 PM
| QUOTE (XDAWG @ Jul 29 2003, 03:18 AM) |
| <dmb062082> right... lets say it made its way to a multi emu and the coder left this specific rom out... would you play it if you had the urge? <dmb062082> its a yes or a no... me i would in a heart beat <dmb062082> i take it you would not because of the coders wishes <Iriez> Like i said, it has nothing to do with me. I might play it , i might not...what i do doesnt matter You said it yourself. If it doesnt matter what you do why should it matter what everyone else does? XDAWG EDIT/ I just dont see why everyone is so heated about this subject? Imean shit everyone here is here for the same reason hmmm maybe modding? I dont really takes sides on this issue about the newer games but I would like to play them because as other people have stated some of us live to far away to play them in an arcade. This subject has me mixed XDAWG |
please let this be known.... because iriez is hand deleting all the threads now. Now enough about iriez being two faced lets get back to the topic at hand.
This has to be one of the best emus i have seen ported to the xbox and for only one reason..... a loophole past the dreaded file size. I would honestly like to shake the coders hand for letting me play a 80mb rom on my xbox to perfection.
Post by: Iriez on July 28, 2003, 06:36:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| The hypocrite's side of this: "I exploit, I hack, and I probably even copy games. It's my right and my privilege. |
I dont exploit, nor hack, nor am i a very adamant 'game copier' ..I happen to own quite a few games buddy ; ) Im into this scene mainly for homebrew. It is not my right or my privledge..quite the opposite infact.
| QUOTE |
| I don't care if I'm stealing because MS is evil and the laws are stupid. |
I wont steal from MS if it is directly harmful to them. Me using their XDK to create a 3d hello world on my xbox does not hurt them. I do what i feel is right, not what uncle sam tells me to. Sorry if i am not a zombie that feels my government is some higher intelligence beyond my comprehension.
| QUOTE |
| They have no right to tell me what I can and can't do with their xbox because it's not theirs. It's mine. I bought it! |
That is 100% correct. It IS mine. I DID buy it, and i DO own my xbox. Do you think i paid for the xbox as a 'service' ? Who are you trying to kid here?
| QUOTE |
| Now the author of that emulator??? This guy is my god. I worship him. Don't tell me that he too is an exploiter because that doesn't matter. I love him and will defend him with my life. If he says don't run a certain game on his emulator nevermind doing so is doing exactly what he does - I will not run the game. |
He is not a 'exploiter'. He is a developer. Ask how many people here fully appreciate what he did for us, and i think you will find out that there is quite a large number of people who disagree with you. To clarify a issue you apparently cannot grasp - He never said "Dont run these games" ...he instead just disabled the feature to play them. He did it out of respect, he did it for his own reasons. You can go and play that game to your hearts content if you figure out how ...its not going to hurt anyone. But you come here and slam the author in the face by posting how cool you are and how you got it to work on his code, after he specifically left the option out....then you are a arrogant little child with no respect.
As a moderator it is my job to keep these forums clean. If some kid trashes it up by disrespecting the kawa-x author, then i will delete, close, or edit it. Xantium wholehearted agree's with that situation.
Post by: deusprogrammer on July 28, 2003, 06:54:00 PM
Something important I thought I might bring up though. MHz made the original Kwaks right? So isn't that how he was able to port it to the XBox with Virtual Memory or as he called it "Black Magic" so easily? It may be easy for someone who designed the emulator from the ground up to implement Virtual Memory...but will it be easy for the porters who are just changing some things about the code to make it work on the XBox? If I am wrong about MHz building it from the ground up, correct me please.
Post by: Iriez on July 28, 2003, 07:02:00 PM
Writing his own demand routines and implementing them into his code is certianlly alot easier than doing it to someone elses code.
This doesnt make others work impossible, just more difficult.
PS- Im not here to help, im here to maintain the forum. I was never a big one on help. This isnt Emulators-help forum, its 'Emulators'.
PSS- It was not Moderator(s), it was me. I never doubted that i am a ass at times. Welcome aboard! = )
Post by: bill99 on July 28, 2003, 08:00:00 PM
Post by: mr jones on July 28, 2003, 08:18:00 PM
I don't think that this emulator uses virtual memory.
There, I said it.
I think that Mhz did do some very savvy programming kung fu to get around some of the Xbox's limitations, but as for virtual memory? Ehh....I don't think so.
The reason why I say that is this - the large Neo games that are playable in this version have to be decrypted. This DRASTICALLY decreases the sizes of many of the Neo games that were originally over 45mb. Hell, Mark of the Wolves is only 39 megs compressed now (52 uncompressed).
Like Final Burn, Kawa-X doesn't have to maintain nearly as many game drivers as MameoX does, and for that reason, has more RAM available for system/game files. There is definitely some fancy techniques going on under Kawa-X's hood to run the the large Capcom and Neo games like Marvel vs. Capcom, and King of Fighters 2000, but I'd have to see it quoted by Mhz himself, to believe that his black magic is virtual memory.
I've talked too much - I gotta go beat strikers 1945 plus on 2 credits now...
My 2 cents...
Post by: openwindow on July 28, 2003, 08:36:00 PM
If you take the encrypted romset off your box, the game doesn't work. So what you're actually loading is a combo of the encrypted and the un-encrypted.
I know that for MSLUG3, that's about 90+ MB.
I think the decryption routines are what the author thinks is taking up too much ram. Sounds like a VM implementation to me.
Post by: sck on July 28, 2003, 08:40:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| If you take the encrypted romset off your box, the game doesn't work. So what you're actually loading is a combo of the encrypted and the un-encrypted. |
As stated in other threads, that is not the case. All that happens is the emulator looks for the unencrypted m, v, and sometimes p roms when it does not find them in the decrypted rom set. So the next thing it looks for those roms is in the parent rom set. If you combine the required roms from the parent rom into the decrypted set you can run the game w/ just one zip and save space and loading time.
Post by: erexx on July 28, 2003, 08:41:00 PM
Anyone with a hard drive light could probably confirm this as the game plays
it should hit the hard drive for files it needs as it clears memory for more data.
Post by: sck on July 28, 2003, 08:45:00 PM
| QUOTE (openwindow @ Jul 29 2003, 12:36 AM) |
| I think the decryption routines are what the author thinks is taking up too much ram. Sounds like a VM implementation to me. |
He even mentions in his readme file that there is no decryption taking place as the result of 64mb of ram:
For the more recent encrypted NeoGeo games, though, only the decrypted form is supported (64Mb of RAM won't allow to do the decryption).
There would be no need to use decrypted romsets if decryption was done by the emulator. People just mistakenly assume that it needs the encrypted set to load up the rom when all it is using is the unencrypted roms from that set.
Post by: mr jones on July 28, 2003, 08:48:00 PM
| QUOTE (openwindow @ Jul 29 2003, 12:36 AM) |
| MrJones, If you take the encrypted romset off your box, the game doesn't work. So what you're actually loading is a combo of the encrypted and the un-encrypted. I know that for MSLUG3, that's about 90+ MB. I think the decryption routines are what the author thinks is taking up too much ram. Sounds like a VM implementation to me. |
Openwindow - Ok, I hear you knocking.
However, you're keeping both the original encrypted rom, AND the decrypted roms in the same directory, which isn't necessary. Kawa-X is only looking for the bios, sound, data, and decrypted graphic files when it loads a game. It bypasses the encrypted files altogether.
For instance:
If you keep both mslug3.zip, and mslug3n.zip, with the decrypted graphic files, its well over 90 megs. But that entire 90 megs isn't being used.
if you just put the data and sound files, along with the decrypted graphic files into mslug3n.zip and delete mslug3.zip, the game will still run just fine. In addition, that new file is only 38.2 megs compressed, and 50 megs uncompressed.. Again, with clever programming, that can be squeezed into the xbox's ram, without virtual memory.
Post by: Iriez on July 28, 2003, 08:56:00 PM
He only uses VMM for roms over 50mb.
Mslug3 is 78mb , the decrypted set is 37mb. You need both files, and files from both. You need all of the 37mb worth of the decrypted set, and some of the files for the normal parent zip. The xbox still needs to load over 70mb worth of files into its 64MB of RAM.
Trust me on this one, its very much so paging. There are similar routines being used in a few projects.
Post by: mr jones on July 28, 2003, 11:41:00 PM
As for both files needing to be used, I'm afraid that you're mistaken. Both files do not need to be in the directory for larger games like Metal Slug 3, to run. I'll explain:
I used the latest release of WinKawaks to decrypt the graphic files from MSLUG3.ZIP. I then took the decrypted files (ms3n_c*.rom) and put them in MSLUG3ND.zip. I then took the following files from MSLUG3.ZIP and placed them in MSLUG3ND.zip as well:
256-m1.bin
256-p1.bin
256-p2.bin
256-ph1.rom
256-ph2.rom
256-sma.bin
256-v1.bin
256-v2.bin
256-v3.bin
256-v4.bin
So there only ends up being one file. Total compressed size: 38.2 megs. Sent through the romchecker I use, its only 51 megs when used through an emulator. Again, that's small enough to work (barely) with the Xbox's RAM.
However, when I actually unzipped MSLUG3nd.zip, and decompressed all the roms into a separate directory, its over 96 megs. And I figured that the emu would end up decompressing the entire zip file to use the roms. THIS is where I'm confused, and would love to find out how this whole loading of large games is being accomplished.
Post by: Dahak on July 28, 2003, 11:47:00 PM
Post by: skforty on July 29, 2003, 02:06:00 AM
Post by: Donan Fear on July 29, 2003, 02:19:00 AM
[emulator][gfx buffers][neo geo ram][mslug3 decompressed rom (90 MB)]
If the C-roms are encrypted you need an additional 64 MB when loading and decrypting the rom (it loads the 64 MB encrypted C-roms, decrypts them to another 64 MB ram and unloads the encrypted roms). The actual zip-archives are never loaded directly into memory so it doesn't matter how much they are compressed.
WinKawaks with mslug3 (encrypted or decrypted) loaded and running uses about 105 MB ram. That obviously wouldn't work on the Xbox unless you used virtual memory, BUT I still think it doesn't use VM.
To use VM you need either the exact data you would load into memory on the harddrive (zip won't work) or a page file. I haven't found a page file and if Kawa-X did use a page file it wouldn't have a problem decrypting roms. That's why I think it doesn't use virtual memory.
How I think it works is that it doesn't load the entire decompressed rom, it reads and decompresses the roms on-the-fly when needed, the Xbox should be fast enough to do that. That's probably why it doesn't support decryption, without virtual memory you can't load everything into ram, and to decrypt on-the-fly is either too slow or not possible at all.
Post by: hosh on July 29, 2003, 03:13:00 AM
| QUOTE (Donan Fear @ Jul 29 2003, 11:19 AM) |
| How I think it works is that it doesn't load the entire decompressed rom, it reads and decompresses the roms on-the-fly when needed, the Xbox should be fast enough to do that. That's probably why it doesn't support decryption, without virtual memory you can't load everything into ram, and to decrypt on-the-fly is either too slow or not possible at all. |
How do you propose this would be? Making it not load up all the levels at once, etc? That would mean MHz would have to code his emulator to open specific things when specific stuff happens in the game, for each and every game that's too big. I kinda doubt it.
And if this was true, how would you explain those games with tons of fighter characters - that show the characters moving when you highlight their name on the select screen? The characters must be the biggest space-hogs in fighters, at least, seeing as how they're amazingly well-animated with a whole truckload of frames of animation.
Post by: Donan Fear on July 29, 2003, 04:44:00 AM
| QUOTE (hosh @ Jul 29 2003, 11:13 AM) | ||
How do you propose this would be? Making it not load up all the levels at once, etc? That would mean MHz would have to code his emulator to open specific things when specific stuff happens in the game, for each and every game that's too big. I kinda doubt it. And if this was true, how would you explain those games with tons of fighter characters - that show the characters moving when you highlight their name on the select screen? The characters must be the biggest space-hogs in fighters, at least, seeing as how they're amazingly well-animated with a whole truckload of frames of animation. |
It's pretty simple really. When the game wants to read data from some address in a rom, it loads that. It probably loads a larger block than requested to speed things up (the game will probably need data somewhere around there soon).
And those games with tons of characters that are animated on the select screen, you don't have to load the entire character to show a simple animation.
Even if you did use true virtual memory you would face the same problems, what if the data that you need for the next frame is paged out?
Post by: Iriez on July 29, 2003, 06:57:00 AM
| QUOTE (mr jones @ Jul 29 2003, 01:41 AM) |
| Iriez - I only have the most rudimentary of programming knowledge, and would love for you to to explain abit about how paging is used on here. From a curiosity standpoint, I'd really like to know. As for both files needing to be used, I'm afraid that you're mistaken. Both files do not need to be in the directory for larger games like Metal Slug 3, to run. I'll explain: |
As for needing both files, im aware of the situation. I just worded poorly. I had meant that you need files from both the zips, but not that you *had* to have both zips present ...i understand you can merge them.
As for his paging, i wont paste any code, but heres the jist..
Its basically 20mb of central RAM area allocated for swap. The pages are divided into 256kb. At the beginning, they are loaded with the first pages by default. For each frame, if a page is used, has a flag set to 0. At the end of a frame you increment all flags. When a new page is needed, replace the one that has a bigger flag (the one that was used most long ago).
The point is to have the most used pages in the RAM at that instant, for speed and efficiency. Very similar to LRU paging.
Post by: Mage on July 29, 2003, 07:45:00 AM
Now I doubt he's using the IA32 hardware on demand paging.
Since if he was, the code would be instantly portable to all xbox programs.
Edit:
Donan Fear - just because he's smart about it and only demand loads graphics and such doesn't make it any less VM. VM has nothing to do with the hard drive for your information. Nor does paging.
Post by: Donan Fear on July 29, 2003, 08:02:00 AM
Post by: Mage on July 29, 2003, 08:35:00 AM
| QUOTE (Donan Fear @ Jul 29 2003, 09:02 AM) |
| Yeah, I know. But you have to page to/from somewhere, and the only memory areas the Xbox has is RAM and HDD. This isn't virtual memory on the Xbox level (what people may think when you simply call it "virtual memory"), it's "virtual rom" on the emulated system's level. Rom is memory too, so it IS true 100% virtual memory, I know that, but the noobs get confused so I would rather call it something else.. |
I'll make it simple.
He is maping multiple segments of rom addresses to a single xbox virtual address space of 20MB as Iriez said. The ROM segments exceed 20MB therefore not all can exist in this memory chunk at the same time.
Now tell me, how is that NOT virtual memory? He cannot alone just use a simple TLB to handle the ROM address <-> xbox memory space conversion.
I think you confuse the term virtual memory with swap disk being used in some demand paging methods. Since to use paging you don't need to use a hard drive. That's just the most common method. So you shouldn't link demand paging with swap disks always, that is bad thing to do.
Post by: falz on July 29, 2003, 08:41:00 AM
Virtual Memory (http://www.hyperdict.../virtual memory)
Definition: A system allowing a computer program to behave as though the computer's memory was larger than the actual physical RAM. The excess is stored on hard disk and copied to RAM as required.
--falz
Post by: mr jones on July 29, 2003, 09:03:00 AM
| QUOTE (Iriez @ Jul 29 2003, 10:57 AM) |
| As for his paging, i wont paste any code, but heres the jist.. Its basically 20mb of central RAM area allocated for swap. The pages are divided into 256kb. At the beginning, they are loaded with the first pages by default. For each frame, if a page is used, has a flag set to 0. At the end of a frame you increment all flags. When a new page is needed, replace the one that has a bigger flag (the one that was used most long ago). The point is to have the most used pages in the RAM at that instant, for speed and efficiency. Very similar to LRU paging. |
Ah hell. I was hopin' for a paragraph of code or two. I was studying up on VMM algorithms back when Nintendo 64 emulation was all the rage and this sounded an awful lot like same upper memory management that my instructor talked about in my Unix classes.
I won't try to dig too much farther into this, considering that the little bit about page swapping that I learned was WAY back when Windows NT was introduced. But I do want to know this: How is it that Mhz's memory manager knows what pages are accessed the least to be able to be swapped? For an application like an emulator, I would think that the it would not only have to swap the page that's requested, but the surrounding pages as well. That would mean that he'd have to have extensive knowledge of the Neo Geo / CPS architecture to be able to determine how the original hardware utilized its memory. Otherwise, you'd have page faults all over the place, I would think...
Damn, I should've paid more attention in class....
Post by: digitalman42 on July 29, 2003, 09:27:00 AM
Post by: digitalman42 on July 29, 2003, 09:30:00 AM
Post by: Beelzebud on July 29, 2003, 09:59:00 AM
Look for great things in the xbox future.
Thanks for that info Iriez.
Post by: Donan Fear on July 29, 2003, 11:28:00 AM
| QUOTE (Mage @ Jul 29 2003, 04:35 PM) |
| I'll make it simple. |
You don't have to, I'm not stupid (too late, you already did
). I know exactly what virtual memory is and how it works, I've done it myself a few times. I was just saying that this is not what the "average joe" knows as virtual memory, if you tell them it's virtual memory they will think it uses a swap file. (see?)Anyway, it's still brilliant, but I don't think this would work well on other emus where the author of the port doesn't have as much control over the actual emu. The code seems to be too close to the actual emulator, and when the emulator you ported gets updated you could get a lot of extra work, it's better to keep it more general, especially for huge projects such as MAME, a more traditional virtual memory system outside the actual emulator would work better in that case.
mr jones: You DO get page faults, but in this case the system is fast enough for you not to notice it, and the amount of data isn't huge either. It's not like swaping in 100 MB in Windows while you are copying a file...
digitalman42: Don't worry, there's no swap file.
Post by: Iriez on July 29, 2003, 11:30:00 AM
| QUOTE (mr jones @ Jul 29 2003, 11:03 AM) |
| But I do want to know this: How is it that Mhz's memory manager knows what pages are accessed the least to be able to be swapped? |
By counting how many times a page is hit. The less times a page is hit, the more likely it will be dropped for a page that needs to be loaded into ram.
No, its not going to leave a big swap file permantly on your xbox. Im sure it uses the x/y/z drives to cache the temporary dumped roms(no it doesnt read it directly from the zip)
Post by: erexx on July 29, 2003, 11:44:00 AM
(page.000~page.255) thats 256KB files x 256 for a total of 64MB page file space.
How ever you want to define it.
I could care less.
Post by: erexx on July 29, 2003, 11:47:00 AM
I deleted them then restarted the emu just to test the recreation of the files and time.
fuck it, so there you go...
Post by: SHiZNO on July 30, 2003, 12:07:00 PM
Post by: Iriez on July 30, 2003, 12:47:00 PM
| QUOTE (Ken_D @ Jul 30 2003, 01:44 PM) |
| Completely OT, but can I say what a pleasure reading this thread is: intelligent people with sometimes opposing views, rationally discussing things, putting forward ideas ... and (practically) no flaming! Where were you guys when the N64 emulators came out? |
The N64 guys have been working on a little something something atleast a week or two before kawa-x came out.
Dont worry, be patient.
Post by: Ken_D on July 31, 2003, 04:15:00 AM
| QUOTE (Iriez @ Jul 30 2003, 08:47 PM) |
| The N64 guys have been working on a little something something atleast a week or two before kawa-x came out. Dont worry, be patient. |
Ah, you misunderstand me: I meant I'd have loved to have seen the rationality, moderation and respect demonstrated here when then flame-thowers were blazing 6 weeks ago