Post by: hargle on August 22, 2006, 12:09:00 PM
Hey everyone,
VooD and I have come up with an .xbe patching utility that allows you to change the settings of the Flicker Filter used in-game.
http://xbox.nugnugnug.com/FlickerFucker/
The FlickerFilter is a bit of hardware built into the xbox itself, which can be controlled by software. Due to a television's slight over and underscan when drawing a screen, there is often a bit of jumpiness and flicker on finely drawn details, such as text. To keep text from being too jumpy, the FlickerFilter allows the image to be blurred slightly, which reduces the amount of jumpiness in trade for image sharpness.
Virtually every single xbox title defaults the FlickerFilter to a value of 5, the maximum amount of blurring available, and offers no means to reduce the amount through in game options.
This utility allows you to force the amount of FlickerFilter used in a game. You can turn it off altogether or select any amount of flicker filtering between 1 (minimum) and 5 (maximum).
Obviously this is only true for Standard Definition Interlaced TV´s (15khz), and the benefit will be proportional to the quality of the cables used for connecting the Xbox to the TV (best results with Scart RGB cables, worst with composite cables)
This utility is a generic .xbe patcher, so we've also put together a compatibility list that anyone can edit with their results. Some games are finicky and can't be changed, but I think we're getting about a 90% success rate in being able to change the default values that the game uses. Give it a shot, the effect is somewhat subtle, but interesting to play around with, and may give some of your old blurry games a new life to your eyes.
Post by: Joshua Wood on August 22, 2006, 03:18:00 PM
I'm sure some ppl will find this useful, but I more like the idea that more and more of the xbox is being made alterable.
Post by: Edirol on August 23, 2006, 08:42:00 PM
Post by: ubiman on August 23, 2006, 09:27:00 PM
Post by: incognegro on August 24, 2006, 04:15:00 AM
QUOTE(ubiman @ Aug 24 2006, 04:34 AM) 
I think XBMC has this option somewhere. But I don't think you can use it for games.
Yes alm ost all homebrew apps has this option and its wonderful but it was never possible on retail games until now. The dev should be giving a huge award of some sort for this cause this one the most useful apps Ive seen come out for the xbox IMO. I mean I never turn on the flicker filter in anyting, just try and play doom with the flciker filter on 5 and then put it on 0 and you'll see the difference.
I used it and it works on every game I throw at it. Although DOA 3 seem to look ugly and tons jaggies with it. This is greatly appreciated. Thank you sir!
Now if some one can only code this into xbmc so I can do it on the fly.....
Post by: VooD on August 24, 2006, 04:30:00 AM
So, just let them know it´s possible to disable the flicker filter in games, and that you want they to include this on a future version
Otherwise...I´m afraid this tool and the VERY HARD work which took coding it will be forgotten very soon..
This post has been edited by VooD: Aug 24 2006, 11:44 AM
Post by: Hoescout on August 24, 2006, 05:27:00 AM
QUOTE(incognegro @ Aug 24 2006, 12:22 PM)
Yes alm ost all homebrew apps has this option and its wonderful but it was never possible on retail games until now. The dev should be giving a huge award of some sort for this cause this one the most useful apps Ive seen come out for the xbox IMO. I mean I never turn on the flicker filter in anyting, just try and play doom with the flciker filter on 5 and then put it on 0 and you'll see the difference.
I used it and it works on every game I throw at it. Although DOA 3 seem to look ugly and tons jaggies with it. This is greatly appreciated. Thank you sir!
Now if some one can only code this into xbmc so I can do it on the fly.....
Ye man word up. Youre so right! Same for me, I also notice the huge difference of FF 5 or FF1 or disabled. In the Mc360 I set the skin to ff1 and soften enabled. By default its set on 5. Its so fugly and droopy that u wanna cry. For videos the FF is disabled completely. AND if I had a LCD tv Id disable FF too, unfortunately on CRT tvs some fonts/pics flicker as hell..
It looks so much sharper to me with ff disabled, dunno how u guys experience it. Wow I think the first thing Ima do now is go disable that crap on every game I got. Thanks Hargle and VooD, youre some fine mates. And I also hope this could be implemented in the XBMC since its really one of the most useful tools for the BOX since Enigma VideoMode switcher etc.
BTW: FUCK THE FLICKER FILTER
CHEERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: DarkSky Forever on August 24, 2006, 10:23:00 AM
Nice job.
Post by: flavor on August 24, 2006, 10:32:00 AM
Great tool, thanks mate!
Post by: Obveron on August 24, 2006, 10:42:00 AM
Post by: hargle on August 24, 2006, 10:56:00 AM
QUOTE(incognegro @ Aug 24 2006, 11:22 AM)
Now if some one can only code this into xbmc so I can do it on the fly.....
This would be amazing! To be able to switch it on the fly (press white button and change setting) but I wouldn't be too surprised if they decide not to, as it does actually modify the xbe directly, which is a little scary/dangerous. That might be outside the scope of what XBMC should be doing as a dashboard.
Second in line of coolness is that it would be really easy to make ACL files for dvd2xbox for the various patches. You wouldn't be able to select the setting though, unless dvd2xbox were modified.
Food for thought, and thanks for all the positive feedback-it's inspiring me to see what else can be done...
Post by: VooD on August 24, 2006, 12:03:00 PM
100% safe
QUOTE
Is this for only interlaced output? Will this have no effect for progressive outputs?
Progressive as its name tells is progressive
so there is no need for interlacing flicker filtering, and so no need for disable that with flickerfucker
Post by: orijonl on August 24, 2006, 12:30:00 PM
So is it true that you would only need this if you are using the standard AV pack being output to a CRT or are ther other scenarios where it would be useful?
Post by: samsbak on August 24, 2006, 12:45:00 PM
And you guys just made it SHINE...
Ive been dreaming of a flicker patcher for years
Every arcade port is tested WORKING!!!
kof NEOWAVE and KOF MAX IMPACT AND SOUL CALIBUR 2
DOA 1,2,3 WORKING
EVERYTHING WORKING!!!
Its unbelieveable that you guys were able to find the correct routines to patch...I actually had a meeting with the Head of Technology for Treyarch about this issue...He refused to believe that he needed to code for flicker filter.
Post by: VooD on August 24, 2006, 01:03:00 PM
QUOTE(orijonl @ Aug 24 2006, 08:37 PM)
I'm a little confused by some of the posts. I originally thought that this would not make a difference if you were using HD (component) outputs, but someone mentioned using this for output to an LCD and then I saw VooD state that it would not be necessary for progressive outputs.
So is it true that you would only need this if you are using the standard AV pack being output to a CRT or are ther other scenarios where it would be useful?
QUOTE
have Xbox inside my NEOGEO MVS-2 arcade machine ( Wells Gardner 25 in 15Khz monitor)
And you guys just made it SHINE...
And you guys just made it SHINE...
Hehe, one of my motivations for disabling the flicker filter was the "arcade look". Most 3d arcades never used any kind of flicker filtering, and I really like in that way
Post by: samsbak on August 24, 2006, 01:53:00 PM
These pics are from before xbe patching...you can see the SNK logo on the bottom slightly blurred ...it is perfectly crisp now...
It also reduced "pixel bleeding" on my monitor...just amazing!
Post by: Joergen on August 24, 2006, 02:09:00 PM
I switched to the component cables and a HD set and all flicker filter and blur nonsense is defaulted to zero... THANK BEJEEBUS.
The Poor-man's AA in the old xbox is ridiculous. Sure it hides the 640x480 pixels nicely but so does old age and having your eyes poked out.
The exact opposite of the xbox1 would be the Dreamcast using an RGB cable.. the sharpest picture EVAH. But play a game like Rez and the flicker is almost all one can handle.
Post by: Diggedy on August 24, 2006, 04:10:00 PM
QUOTE
SOUL CALIBUR 2
Are you running this in an emulator or do you mean Soul Calibur 3?
Post by: JLsoft on August 24, 2006, 04:44:00 PM
- COMPLEX Tools v1.60
- ConfigMagic
- DVD2XBox v0.7.6
- LinksBoks v0.99 (SCARY difference
)- XORED Trainer Launcher v2.2
- XVectrex b1
Post by: nes6502 on August 24, 2006, 06:41:00 PM
I just updated the compatability thread with more games that work brilliantly with it. Marvel vs. Capcom 2 never looked so good.
The ones I added are (all NTSC):
NCAA 07
Peter Jackson's King Kong
Hulk: Ultimate Destruction
KOF 2002/2003
Marvel Vs. Capcom 2
Samurai Showdown V
Black
Doom: RoE
Fable: The Lost Chapters
Jade Empire: Limited Edition
Xmen Legends 2
Otogi
Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter
Blazing Angels
NHL 06
Far Cry Instincts
GTA 3
GUN
Psychonauts
The Chronicles of Riddick
Thanks for this.
Post by: VooD on August 25, 2006, 07:49:00 AM
Post by: hargle on August 25, 2006, 07:54:00 AM
QUOTE(Hoescout @ Aug 25 2006, 02:25 PM)
I can't get HALO 2 to turn off the flicker filter. I've even patched every XBE File in the main folder. Still didn't change anything. Can anyone help me out? It's the updated ntsc-version (1.1).
What file did you guys patch?
Some games have the code in their xbe's, but never call it. The code must be part of a default library that just gets pulled in during compile time, and the programmers never utilize it.
I was thinking that in cases like this, I might be able to come up with a simple wrapper default.xbe that you launch, which turns off the flickerFilter, then launches default_ff.xbe in the same folder. (ok, I just came up with this idea while I typed this, so it's completely unproven if you can actually do this) Something as simple as that could be compiled with openxdk and released freely. That wrapper .xbe would ONLY work in cases like this where the flicker filter code, even after being patched, never gets executed. Lemme see what can be done.
I haven't seen halo2 patched with my own eyes, but I know VooD has tested it. Must have been the 1.0 release or something?
QUOTE(samsbak @ Aug 24 2006, 09:00 PM)
These pics are from before xbe patching...you can see the SNK logo on the bottom slightly blurred ...it is perfectly crisp now...
It also reduced "pixel bleeding" on my monitor...just amazing!
Any chance you can take another pic with FF turned off so we can see the difference? I'll add your images (if that's ok) to the website so people can see what they're getting themselves into.
Post by: VooD on August 25, 2006, 08:42:00 AM
)Regards.
Post by: Hoescout on August 25, 2006, 09:40:00 AM
Here's how: all who got an updated Halo 2 (v1.1) they need to go patch this file E/TDATA/4d530064/$u/default.xbe
The result is much sharper and clearer looking Halo 2. Really awesome!
So hargle you can yet relaxe and don't need to mess around with a new wrapper etc.
Post by: VooD on August 25, 2006, 09:54:00 AM
Lego Star Wars
And well, here are some samples. (of course it looks way better when you watch the tv directly) .Notice how the panel with the geometric figures loss lots of details. For example at the right part with the flicker filter turned off you still can see the grey blur which in the first image is really formed by several individual horizontal lines.
Burnout 3
Post by: Navillos on August 25, 2006, 10:00:00 AM
Post by: VooD on August 25, 2006, 10:11:00 AM
QUOTE(Navillos @ Aug 25 2006, 06:07 PM)
i have an RCA flat screen tv and it isnt high def but it has component video in and im using monster gamelink component cables with toslink. im wondering if this patch will apply to me or not. or since im using hd cables it is already default to "0". thanx in advance guys
If you are not using HDTV modes this will improve the image quality for you.
And about the Wiki...whoever who added Outrun 2006 and 2 as non working is wrong.
They both work perfectly. I can warrantee if you have these version it will work flawless:
Outrun 2006:
Region: Multi
ID: 53450088 (1397031048)
CRC original: 2BF30FE5
CRC patched to off: 4EFD122E
Outrun 2:
Region: 4 (Europe - PAL)
ID: 53450036 (1397030966)
CRC original: 833A61D2
CRC patched to off: 6F410C3B
Post by: Navillos on August 25, 2006, 10:15:00 AM
Post by: Navillos on August 25, 2006, 10:38:00 AM
Post by: Navillos on August 25, 2006, 10:50:00 AM
the truth is i really dont know of it will support 480p, 720p, etc.
Post by: VooD on August 25, 2006, 12:53:00 PM
QUOTE(samsbak @ Aug 25 2006, 07:33 PM)
Outrun II USA and Outrun 2006 JAP and NBA JAM 2004 USA sttopped working after patching...I was the one who changed them in wiki
Ok,
But please if you get a listed as working game crashing do not modify its entry in the wiki, just add a new entry with precise data of which version is the one is not working for you. (include, region, and crc from default.xbe).Hargle did his best with all the different patches, but we don´t have every single xbox game for testing if there are any additional flicker filter routine, but even so I think we have a pretty high success ratio for a first public version
BTW: RGB RULEZ!!!!
Post by: Navillos on August 25, 2006, 02:12:00 PM
Post by: VooD on August 25, 2006, 04:21:00 PM
My name is Fucker...FlickerFucker...lol
Post by: nes6502 on August 25, 2006, 06:41:00 PM
Post by: incognegro on August 25, 2006, 08:56:00 PM
Post by: hargle on August 26, 2006, 05:34:00 AM
QUOTE(incognegro @ Aug 26 2006, 04:03 AM)
Hey hargle....I made a request to xbmc about the thing I suggested earlier well there seems to be some interest (well theyre asking questions anyway). I was wondering if u could go over there to help sort things out? heres a link:XBMC Forum
I've been contacted by someone working on xbmc, and I'll just say that things are looking very good that this feature will be implemented directly.
I had no idea that this lil app would cause such a stir. I'm flattered beyond words.
Post by: flavor on August 26, 2006, 06:15:00 AM
Post by: Hoescout on August 26, 2006, 08:30:00 AM
Heres a message to all: check the games that work first which you got, and make a small note in notepad/word or w/e, then use the edit function and edit the titles quickly and save.
Post by: VooD on August 26, 2006, 08:58:00 AM
Also, something else I´ve noticed in the wiki is some people change the font and not always follow the style guidelines.
Btw, I believe there´s still some people which ignores that in order to add a new line they have to push shift+enter.
Regards
This post has been edited by VooD: Aug 26 2006, 04:00 PM
Post by: c-2 on August 26, 2006, 01:25:00 PM
somone asked if off was better , from what ive found is that off will give the best results but in some games the flicker is seisure inducing when it is .. i've found 1 or 2 works better for me in some games , still a huge improvment in picture as 5 is the default .. great app , i owe ya a beer :]
Post by: samsbak on August 26, 2006, 09:50:00 PM
Post by: VooD on August 27, 2006, 05:18:00 AM
Post by: VooD on August 27, 2006, 08:07:00 AM
QUOTE
- 26-08-2006 added: Flicker Filter Xbe Patcher. Based on hargle and VooD Win32 Flicker Filter XBE Patcher http://xbox.nugnugnu.../FlickerFucker/
settings - my Programs - auto flicker filter patch on/off
will always create a patched _ffp.xbe, the default will not touched
ff patcher uses the flicker filter setting in XBMC settings
will not patch: in progressive mode and homebrew xbe's
settings - my Programs - auto flicker filter patch on/off
will always create a patched _ffp.xbe, the default will not touched
ff patcher uses the flicker filter setting in XBMC settings
will not patch: in progressive mode and homebrew xbe's
Hehe, but I wonder if they used 006 or 007 version source code.
Post by: Hoescout on August 27, 2006, 08:29:00 AM
Post by: Navillos on August 27, 2006, 09:43:00 AM
Post by: VooD on August 27, 2006, 10:22:00 AM
QUOTE(Navillos @ Aug 27 2006, 05:14 PM) 
no progressive mode. so if you using component plugs your out of luck?
I hope you understand once at all, FlickerFucker works only if you connect your tv to a standart SDTV, or to a HDTV but not using HDTV modes. It´s meant for disabling the flicker filter which the Xbox always turns on when the console is providing 15khz interlaced signals. So if you are using HDTV modes flicker fucker will not work, basically because IS NOT NECESSARY AT ALL as you already got the best possible video output: progressive video.
Regards.
Post by: Navillos on August 27, 2006, 11:29:00 AM
Post by: hargle on August 27, 2006, 03:57:00 PM
QUOTE(VooD @ Aug 27 2006, 03:14 PM)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Hehe, but I wonder if they used 006 or 007 version source code.
I was told that they've got the 107 release ported. There was literally 1 line of change between 107 and 106.
(and so far only z26x was fixed by it)
I believe it's in sourceforge now, so anytime I make an update in the future, I can update it in sourceforge too, so everything should be in sync from now on.
My head is still spinning as to how fast this was adopted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Post by: JLsoft on August 27, 2006, 04:31:00 PM
Copying & patching all .xbes in a dir (minus stuff like update.xbe/downloader.xbe) would be no good, since the default.xbe frontends would be calling the original filenames and not "ff_filename", and so on... :/
Making backups and then patching everything (so they retain their original filenames) could also cause problems where the backups would have to be restored the next time XBMC/whatever-other-automatic-patchers-come-out are run :/
[Edit: Typo fix!]
This post has been edited by JLsoft: Aug 27 2006, 11:33 PM
Post by: VooD on August 27, 2006, 07:27:00 PM
Btw, I just tested lastest XBMC, and FF is working nicely
It creates a default_ffp.xbe file in the game´s folder and loads that one instead. What it doesn´t seems to be working is disabling FF for a game running from the dvd drive. I know evox had an option to run a dvd game´s default.xbe from hd instead and load the rest of the data from the dvd drive itself, so probably is possible to do the same in xbmc, but I don´t know how hard to implement would be.Maybe the ultimate solution would be using the xored trainer engine to directly patch on the fly the flicker filter in ram. Meanwhile at least for me FlickerFucker is already an almost perfect solution hehe
edit: mmm, I think they made the FlickerFucker routines to patch only apps in the default games folder.
Post by: Hoescout on August 30, 2006, 11:36:00 AM
would be interesting to figure that out.
Post by: VooD on August 30, 2006, 12:01:00 PM
QUOTE(Hoescout @ Aug 30 2006, 07:07 PM)
Would this tool affect on a firmware modded x360 + xbox1 games with patched xbe?
would be interesting to figure that out.
Nope, since x360 needs signed xbe´s and once you patch the file it lost its signature. Anyway I don´t know if the x360 uses a flicker filter for 15khz interlaced modes, but if it does, probably the emulator bypass the flicker filter set in the xbox1 game and sets its own level.
Post by: samsbak on August 30, 2006, 06:40:00 PM
Thanx so much for flicker fucker!!!
best app in 2 years!
Post by: VooD on August 31, 2006, 04:46:00 AM
Post by: samsbak on August 31, 2006, 11:33:00 PM
My button mapping mule!
lol forget it thanx so much for FF changed everything here!
Post by: G-King on October 08, 2006, 06:49:00 AM
Post by: dus on October 09, 2006, 01:58:00 AM
QUOTE(G-King @ Oct 8 2006, 02:20 PM)
is there a program for xbox to disable smooth in games ??
Do you mean the soften filter (in contrast to the flicker filter, which this thread is about)? I can't see any difference on my TV when switching the soften filter on or off.
I could try to fix a patch for nkpatcher10 (softmod kernel patcher) that disables the soften filter within the kernel. Currently there is a patch for nkpatcher10 to force the flicker filter to a specific value: flicker filter patch for nkpatcher10.
But if there is no difference then there is no point doing the work creating the patch...
Post by: Heet on October 10, 2006, 04:10:00 AM
Post by: hargle on October 11, 2006, 06:53:00 AM
QUOTE(dus @ Oct 9 2006, 09:05 AM)
I could try to fix a patch for nkpatcher10 (softmod kernel patcher) that disables the soften filter within the kernel. Currently there is a patch for nkpatcher10 to force the flicker filter to a specific value: flicker filter patch for nkpatcher10.
Whoa! I had no idea this stuff made it's way into nkpatcher! Nice work! (and you did it a month ago-I've been under a rock since then I guess)
That's exactly where I was hoping this type of thing would end up-a kernel patch is a much cleaner solution to the problem. I'm just too green to be able to do kernel patching at the moment.
Kudos to you.
Post by: Vejita on November 16, 2006, 04:40:00 PM
I want to run XMugen without the flicker filter.
Post by: hargle on November 17, 2006, 07:39:00 AM
QUOTE(Vejita @ Nov 17 2006, 12:11 AM)
Would disabling the flicker filter in Gentoox Loader also make linux display without the filter?
I want to run XMugen without the flicker filter.
Never tried that before, but it's worth a shot!
The app doesn't HAVE to have an .xbe file either, so whatever binary file you send into it, if it's got flickerFilter calls in it, it can be patched. So you could try shoving the xmugen binary into it too.
Of course, always make backups-provided you've got a method of replacing the file in case it fails, there's no reason not to try.