Post by: Boydster on October 13, 2006, 04:53:00 PM
Way to fuck up Sony. Besides lack of interest in games, the controller was the biggest reason I disliked the PS2.
http://ps3.ign.com/a...8/738858p1.html
EDIT: Oh, just have to mention IGN actually complemented the 360's controller. I never thought I'd hear such from those biased editors' mouths.
Post by: DragoNs on October 13, 2006, 07:03:00 PM
QUOTE(Boydster @ Oct 13 2006, 07:00 PM) 
Eh, never cared for the PS2 controller, and now I know I'll care even less for the PS3's. Light weight POS, still not engineered for shooters.
Way to fuck up Sony. Besides lack of interest in games, the controller was the biggest reason I disliked the PS2.
http://ps3.ign.com/a...8/738858p1.html
EDIT: Oh, just have to mention IGN actually complemented the 360's controller. I never thought I'd hear such from those biased editors' mouths.
I personally think the PS2 controller was the best controller for all the current gen systems. lol and for the biggest reason you hated the ps2 was the controller? surprized you like the 360 one, it has resemblance
Post by: silentbob343 on October 13, 2006, 10:33:00 PM
QUOTE(epsilon72 @ Oct 13 2006, 10:36 PM)
meh. Give me mouse and keyboard.
Yeah I have to say all gamepads suck when it comes to FPS.
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 13, 2006, 10:37:00 PM
QUOTE(DragoNs @ Oct 13 2006, 09:10 PM)
I personally think the PS2 controller was the best controller for all the current gen systems. lol and for the biggest reason you hated the ps2 was the controller? surprized you like the 360 one, it has resemblance
it has nothing to do with resemblance and everything to do with how it fits in your hands.
the PS2 (and all PS controllers for that matter) were obviously made to be looked at first and held second.
-Hard edges that make up the shape of the controller would dig into your hands on extended play sessions
-the d-pad chews up your thumb if you play any hardcore 2D fighters.
-the L/R2 buttons sloped down far enough that if you tucked your middle fingers under your hand would cramp up from lack of space and if you put it on top your pinky and ring fingers would cramp up from having to hold a tighter grip in order to keep the controller in your hands
-The analog sticks were too far towards the center, it was somewhat acceptable with the PS1 dual-sock because they had no where else on the controller to put it but it was an absolute atrocity that they never bothered to actually design the thing ergonomically correct. They're so far in the center that I can't actually get a full rotation of the sticks using just my thumbs, I actually have to loosen my grip towards my fingertips and move my whole hand if I want to push toward the center. Also this location screws with your perception of direction your fingers natural movements for "up" and "down" at that level of extension end up being "up-left" and "down right" for the Left stick...
-The D-pad is still in the prominent position despite the fact that it's not the prominent directional input (further exemplifying that visual symmetry is more important to Sony designers then actual function).
I could go on... the PS controller was a mis-sharpen SNES controller with extra shoulder buttons (basically they wanted the SNES controller but had to make it different enough to avoid copywrite infringment). When Nintendo and Sega announced the inclusion of an analog stick and a rumble motor Sony jumped on board by simply shoving analog sticks on the controller wherever they'd fit... and in typical Sony "anything you can do I can do better" fashion they put 2 sticks and 2 motors instead of one (or perhaps they did it to keep with the controller's symmetrical design, take your pick).
This is not how you make a worth while product, playing "me-too" games and shoving important features wherever you have space left would earn you a Failing grade at any industrial design school worth the paper their degrees are printed on.
I've found that most people who "like" the PS controller design are just people who have been using it for so long that their hands have adapted to it instead of Sony adapting to human hands.
Find someone who doesn't play video games, hand them both a 360 controller and a PS2 controller and ask them which one they prefer, you'd be hard-pressed to find a substantial group of people who pick the PS2 controller. There's a reason the 360 controller has won awards and the stagnant PS controller design hasn't won jack since it's inception in 1995.
At a glance yes the PS2 controller is remarkably similar to the Xbox controller, but it's the subtle differences that separate a good controller design from a bad one.
Post by: Pheidias on October 14, 2006, 02:33:00 AM
but for entirely different awards, say like worst controller ever. And while the xbox controller works very very well for certain games it very very bad for others the d-pad on the S is not worth mentioning. haven't used the d-pad enough on the 360 so can't say if it suck too.Did sony steal the analog buttons from someone, or did they acctaully come up with that themself.
I want the bumerang 6axis..
Post by: KAGE360 on October 14, 2006, 07:29:00 AM
i cant play with the ps2 controller for more then 15-20 minutes before my hands cramp up (no joke) and to be honest i feared the same with the 360 controller when i read it was around the same size as the S-controller. i couldnt stand the S-controller, have played with the "duke" controller in all my xbox gaming years. however the thicker more arganic feel of the 360 controller surprised me, it has been one of the greatest controllers i have ever had the joy of playing.
i never thought about it before reading twisted's post but its all true. originally i thought that the ps2 controller was designed with the japanese small hands in mind (which may be true) but everything sucks about it. just yesterday i walked into my bro's room to him playing VF4, i asked to play the next match (i dont know why
), reminding me how awful the D-pad is. never played a FPS on a ps console because they all sucked compared to their xbox counterpart but i can see how the analog placement sucks. just because microsoft included two bumpers does not mean that its the same as the ps2 controller. sure the D-pad on the 360 controller has it's flaws as well, but at least it doesnt kill my thumb. the analog triggers are great and im happy that they took a lesson from the DC controller, and the controller is great for both FPS and action games.
Post by: DragoNs on October 14, 2006, 11:00:00 AM
QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Oct 14 2006, 09:36 AM)
to say that the ps2/3 controller is the same as the 360 controller is just plain ignorance.
i cant play with the ps2 controller for more then 15-20 minutes before my hands cramp up (no joke) and to be honest i feared the same with the 360 controller when i read it was around the same size as the S-controller. i couldnt stand the S-controller, have played with the "duke" controller in all my xbox gaming years. however the thicker more arganic feel of the 360 controller surprised me, it has been one of the greatest controllers i have ever had the joy of playing.
i never thought about it before reading twisted's post but its all true. originally i thought that the ps2 controller was designed with the japanese small hands in mind (which may be true) but everything sucks about it. just yesterday i walked into my bro's room to him playing VF4, i asked to play the next match (i dont know why
), reminding me how awful the D-pad is. never played a FPS on a ps console because they all sucked compared to their xbox counterpart but i can see how the analog placement sucks. just because microsoft included two bumpers does not mean that its the same as the ps2 controller. sure the D-pad on the 360 controller has it's flaws as well, but at least it doesnt kill my thumb. the analog triggers are great and im happy that they took a lesson from the DC controller, and the controller is great for both FPS and action games.
the PS controllers and the 360 controller do have resemblance tho, so say its ignorance or not, as for the ps controllers ive been able to play games on them for hours and never have my hands cramp up, and you said its designed for small handed ppl, my hands are big, alot bigger then most people so dont say its for ppl with smaller hands, as for the d-pad, i hardly use it on ps2 as most games on ps2 have the analog stick as default. Oh and you can kinda see that the 360 controller also resembles the Logitech wireless xbox controller, which i own instead of those crappy S controllers, idk maybe i just like the controller better because of the style, Ive only owned, NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, PS, PS2, Xbox and 360, oh and i had a dreamcast for a little before i sold it, had the worst controllers ive ever used, kinda reminds me of the large xbox controllers where are garbage too.. i noticed when i played 360 for like 7+ hours with Enchanted arms, your hands start to get pretty sore, if i ever play PS2 for Any period of time (played 12 hours once) for an RPG, my hands never get sore, the 360 seems to be good if your always moving your hands like DoA4 but idk, this is imo, and your probably going to have a huge fit over this post and write something 10 pages long on how im wrong and your right, cause thats just how you are kage360, so post away.
Post by: Deftech on October 14, 2006, 11:27:00 AM
Worst:(all terrible so an order doesnt matter)
All sony controllers
GC and N64 controllers
S controller
Atari Jaguar(lol)
Best:(In order)
360
Duke
Dreamcast
Saturn Nights pad
Everyones opinion of controllers will be different.
Post by: gcskate27 on October 14, 2006, 11:37:00 AM
gc's controller was terrible... dunno what sort of retarded midget that was designed for...
Post by: Pheidias on October 14, 2006, 12:11:00 PM
Post by: Deftech on October 14, 2006, 01:16:00 PM
I cannot believe its been a decade since the game was released.
Post by: shodanjr_gr on October 14, 2006, 01:21:00 PM
I dont know wether my hands have become adjusted to the Dreamcast/XBOX controller form factor but whenever i try to play with the PS2 controller i get hand cramps...Its REALLY small, REALLY cramped, and for crying out loud, the main analogue stick should be at the TOP part of the controller so that you dont have to keep your thumb permanently flexed to play!
Post by: gasclown on October 14, 2006, 02:17:00 PM
on topic, i agree the ps2 (and by extension the ps3) controller does suck. I live in the sub-tropics and its impossible to keep your thumbs on analogues during the warmer half of the year and we only have two seasons where im from... Precision is impossible. all my mates agree. we all loved the xbox1/360 controllers simply because your thumbs dont slip off while playing.
Post by: grim_d on October 14, 2006, 02:56:00 PM
QUOTE(NicoBech @ Oct 14 2006, 10:00 PM)
this is way way off topic.. and then again not....
not long now till winter-een-mas
Post by: incognegro on October 15, 2006, 06:33:00 AM
I remember when they had the original analog controller for ps1 (not dual shock), now that was a good controller. It was bigger and had concave sticks. Felt great! Ofcourse there werent alot shooters that used it but I used to sit with my system off and just hold it cause it felt so great.
I liked the DC controller but i do feel the design was bit flawed. Cord at the bottom is a big no-no in my book. The d-pad was weak and the stick was not concave and barely had any grip. Pissed me off sometimes in quake. Plus it was huge! A little too big than it needed to be IMO.
Nintendo now....They make the most innovative controllers but one that is consistent with most of them is that the quality is horrid and they lacked versatility! The n64 controller was great....for nintendo games! They werent the most versatile things in the world and the analog stick, though better than the DC ones, broke after a few hours. The gamecube controller is worse than that in the durability department! Judging by what I've seen of the inside of the wiimote and nunchuck, this trend seems to be continuing.
Post by: incognegro on October 15, 2006, 07:47:00 AM
QUOTE
True enough, you can go along with Phil Harrison's proclamation that it's already the industry-standard controller amongst umpteen-million gamers around the globe, but, arguably, that doesn't make it the best
True indeed!
QUOTE
What's more, the triggers are convex, with no grooves to keep your fingers in place
even the triigers are convex!? oh hellz no! no they didnt!?
QUOTE
it's just a shame that Sony hasn't used its resources to bring its controller up to next-gen standards along with its cutting-edge hardware.
Cosign that one!
Post by: Mr Invader on October 16, 2006, 03:57:00 PM
I think Sony would have been smart to stick with that banana controller because it might have been more comfortable than the current one.
Post by: Deftech on October 16, 2006, 04:43:00 PM
QUOTE(Mr Invader @ Oct 16 2006, 06:04 PM)
i like the concave design that the 360 has in the sticks and triggers, the controller is so comfortable.
I think Sony would have been smart to stick with that banana controller because it might have been more comfortable than the current one.
This banana?
or this one?
Post by: Mr Invader on October 16, 2006, 05:27:00 PM
Post by: whiteboytroy on October 18, 2006, 06:31:00 AM
kotaku just posted this one
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 18, 2006, 08:15:00 AM
Post by: Pheidias on October 18, 2006, 08:43:00 AM
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 18, 2006, 12:13:00 PM
QUOTE(Pheidias @ Oct 18 2006, 10:50 AM)
Luckily though that is probably the best way of playing the games that take advantage of the 6axis.
how do you figure
Every human metrics class I've ever taken has shown a wand to be the most versatile and natural interface for 6 axis 3D movement.
Post by: Pheidias on October 18, 2006, 02:55:00 PM
But to use your wand as the best way expression, your arm is the wand and grabing it with "the claw" is the best way to do so. Not exactly sure how your supposedto press buttons though
Post by: Martinchris23 on October 18, 2006, 03:39:00 PM
QUOTE(Pheidias @ Oct 18 2006, 10:02 PM)
Not exactly sure how your supposedto press buttons though
They've solved this one too - Sony are releasing the 'groinal' addon which emulates button presses depending on which direction you swing your hips.
In a bid to outdo the competition, all buttons, pads and sticks will be removed from the controller leaving a mixture of 'toilet dancing' and bad 80's disco moves to operate the console.
The result being the ability to retract any recommended continual usage as the player will be far too knackered to think about gaming more than 30 minutes at a time.
Kudos to MS for the 360 controller design: if Sony would have spent less money on how the console looked and more on the controller, you may have actually seen something reasonable being released.
Post by: Boydster on October 18, 2006, 05:00:00 PM
And what's this with having to connect the controller via usb every time you boot it up?
Post by: throwingks on October 18, 2006, 05:14:00 PM
PS3 gets you in shape and makes you money!
Post by: Deftech on October 18, 2006, 06:21:00 PM
QUOTE(Dane-La @ Oct 18 2006, 07:44 PM)
thats ridiculous...what a pussy
Oh no, Not another one
Dont these kids have bedtimes? Hasnt Kira/Fetus recruited enough of these wastes of skin?
I guess Im a bigger pussy, I give up on the ps2 controller at about 5 minutes, that thing is a pos.
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 18, 2006, 07:26:00 PM
QUOTE(Pheidias @ Oct 18 2006, 05:02 PM)
as in 6axis the controller, even read a article about it on ign or gamespot or some other onlinezine.
But to use your wand as the best way expression, your arm is the wand and grabing it with "the claw" is the best way to do so. Not exactly sure how your supposedto press buttons though
I know you were talking about the controller but 6-axis comes from the fact that it can interpret movements across 6 different axis positional X, Y and Z as well as Rotational X, Y, and Z Thats all the axis there are 6 is all you need to interpret any kind of movement of an object in the real world.
The problem is that the object interpreting these movements is the controller. With a wand type/ single handed controller those movements are mapped directly to one of your hands (or with the nunchuck both hands independently). With a traditional two handed controller the movement data is mapped to this unnatural 3rd point in space between your two hands, which are unnaturally locked together as if you were in handcuffs.
The fact that you have to contort your hand into a misshapen claw ON TOP OF having to hold a single controller with two hands is just moldy icing on a bitter cake. Seriously human hands were not meant to be bent into a shape like that.. if you happen to actually enjoy holding you hand in such an unnatural position for extended periods of time might I suggest Corseting, Foot binding, or Neck Stretching as other hobbies you might enjoy pursuing.
How often do you push buttons when interacting with the real world? unless you're sitting at a computer, or playing a video game chances are you're doing more moving then button pushing, and if you do push a button you rarely need to push more then one.
If you have enough freedom in your movements buttons aren't needed.
Nothing says you need to move your arm either, at least not with the wand...
Go find a pen and hold it in your hand, now hold your arm still and point the pen around the room moving your wrist... you'll have approximately 1/4 sphere range in movement now go grab a PS2 controller and try to do the same thing, you can probably pitch it up and down and that's about it... the problem is any other movement would require a difference in position between your two hands.
You can use a wii-remote like a football, a baseball bat, a tennis racket, a fishing rod, a golf club, a sword, a gun, or just as an extension of your own arm. none of which are possible with a traditionally shaped controller.
The only real world movement the SIXAXIS can emulate is that of a steering wheel or other two handed devices, which the wii-remote can do as well.
Your computer's mouse is nothing more then a 2D wand interface.
Post by: Pheidias on October 18, 2006, 10:50:00 PM
Post by: Serious Sam on December 01, 2006, 01:34:00 AM
The Xbox controller was designed more ergonomic, sort of like how you use a keyboard and mouse. A natural hand position with the left thumbstick designed to be on top.