Post by: linflas on December 30, 2005, 12:22:00 AM
Post by: krayzie on December 30, 2005, 12:58:00 AM
Post by: MaTiAz on December 30, 2005, 10:06:00 AM
Post by: MaTiAz on December 30, 2005, 01:44:00 PM
QUOTE(wmadoss @ Dec 30 2005, 07:53 PM) 
Haha do you think its the "modmakers" that decide if u can go on live with the modchip or not..
If it was possible to go online with a modchip enabled and play backups without being banned they would have done that a loooong time ago.
Well, yeah
At least some hackers have morality (like the Xbox-Linux guys trying to prevent the use of exploits to run backups )... but anyway this is OT so let's not continue it 
Anyway, cheaters would kill live, so it's fine to me to ban everyone that goes to XBL with mod on. Or just using a hakced XEX for that matter. Fair play
Post by: dalezer on December 30, 2005, 06:08:00 PM
Post by: Twan on January 01, 2006, 11:13:00 PM
Post by: Master X on January 01, 2006, 11:21:00 PM
Post by: krayzie on January 01, 2006, 11:32:00 PM
QUOTE(Twan @ Jan 2 2006, 07:20 AM)
Ya....I think with new security holes being found daily, a modchip won't be the main priority for hacking the 360.
Again....WHAT security holes? Can you name 1? Are you actually involved in hacking the 360 since you say that?
Post by: Heet on January 02, 2006, 01:42:00 AM
An aside: Hope when this happens its another 29 wire, no make that 40 wire with 10 traces to cut.
If someone makes a slayer cd for the 360 im going to blow his moms head off.
Its just gotten WAY too thick in here.
Post by: krayzie on January 02, 2006, 04:38:00 AM
QUOTE(Heet @ Jan 2 2006, 09:49 AM)
Um lets see, the kiosk disc works on a dvdr, the dvd drive can be unlocked, and you can run ANY program from MCE on your 360! Then there is the swap trick!
An aside: Hope when this happens its another 29 wire, no make that 40 wire with 10 traces to cut.
If someone makes a slayer cd for the 360 im going to blow his moms head off.
Its just gotten WAY too thick in here.
kiosk disc is nice it can be burned but has nothing to do with hacking the xbox or security holes
I dunno what you mean with the dvd drive but how does this relate to hacking the xbox?
and what programs can you run? Can you run unsigned XEX files??? NO
swap trick again has nothing to do with hacking the xbox. it's still running signed code.
There is a difference between things we can acomplish in general and reverse engineering the xbox security system.
Post by: lordvader129 on January 02, 2006, 10:09:00 AM
QUOTE
the kiosk disc works on a dvdr
so you can burn some demos and play them, big whoop, and thats not a security hole in the 360 itself, its an oversight when the disc was made
QUOTE
the dvd drive can be unlocked
thats still not a security hole, for example hotswapping an xbox1 HD to get access to it wouldnt be worth crap if we didnt have a softmod to copy to it....and we dont have anythign for 360
QUOTE
you can run ANY program from MCE on your 360
so windows can run windows apps and thats a security hole in the 360? read soem threads, the 360 isnt running anything but remote desktop, the pc does all work
QUOTE
Then there is the swap trick!
i still have yet to see any evidence this is anything but pre-cached data being run, besides, if this does become an issue, MS will just release games with multiple xbes that load and reload every few mins, the media checks will prevent it from reloading off a backup
Post by: brienj on January 03, 2006, 02:09:00 AM
I guess some people didn't notice your sarcasm Heet. Don't worry, I did.
I agree, it is getting awfully thick in here lately.
Post by: mksoftware on January 03, 2006, 04:22:00 AM
Post by: Neilinator99 on January 07, 2006, 06:36:00 PM
probly not right?
i mean one that isnt pointless
Post by: mathers3000 on January 07, 2006, 09:13:00 PM
Post by: Neilinator99 on January 08, 2006, 07:36:00 PM
Post by: nj12nets on January 08, 2006, 10:04:00 PM
Post by: krayzie on January 08, 2006, 10:17:00 PM
QUOTE(nj12nets @ Jan 9 2006, 06:11 AM)
softmodding is a good technology but its too easy for lil kids to do it and cheat on live and fuk up modders trying to get on live. id rather see a 20 wire modchip t hen a softmod to prevent the people that will fuck it up for the rest.
softmodding has nothing to do with cheating on live.
also people should stop making it sound if they have a choice on how to mod their 360. It's not a xbox 1 with all these holes. The 360 console turns out very secure and if a flaw is found it's gonna be used for a long time. Will there be more flaws in the end? Probably. Is that gonna be soon? no.
Post by: thebucketmouse on January 10, 2006, 12:18:00 PM
Oh yeah, congrats to the staff for locking 66% of the threads on the Modchip dev main page
Post by: Twan on January 10, 2006, 03:50:00 PM
First chips released are going to cost possibly $100. How much were the XBox 1 chips?
Post by: monkeychris on January 12, 2006, 07:58:00 AM
QUOTE(Twan @ Jan 10 2006, 10:57 PM)
The risk is worth it.
First chips released are going to cost possibly $100. How much were the XBox 1 chips?
Superfro ripped 'that' bios, then I picked up my enigmahX beta for about £15 ($30 ish)
This did me fine for a few weeks then swapped it for the final (£20, but actually £5 cus got an exchange)
Finally when games started not running 'cus of this (when retails detected the mod.) I just flashed the TSOP
If the first solutions are some PIC chip or something basic like that and people charge loads, it's just incentive for a rival team / person to take apart the chip and release whatever software is on it over the net.
If its a BIOS based solution, then realistically teams aren't gonna be able to commercially release the BIOS; soo it will leave the market open for competetion; so don't expect prices to be high for long.
Post by: ColdReader on January 12, 2006, 08:00:00 AM
Post by: deakphreak on January 12, 2006, 08:36:00 AM
Post by: ColdReader on January 14, 2006, 04:39:00 PM
Post by: Neilinator99 on January 16, 2006, 07:32:00 PM
Then some modder said for every saftey wall there is a bulldozer
just give it some time go and enjoy xbox live untill the mod comes out
Post by: Reaper527 on January 22, 2006, 10:07:00 PM
QUOTE(ColdReader @ Jan 14 2006, 06:46 PM)
if someone got a hold of a debug box and the XeXDK it would be a good start...i cant remember how the original XDK got leaked but what good is modding the 360 if we dont have the development tools for it? useless cause all we can run is backups and with a modified BIOS we'd have no flexibilty because hey look if we want to do anything we have to do it in the bios which the only fun thing i can think of is change the default led colors and fan speed and region and blah blah so think about this what good is a modchip if we cant create homebrew software and all you people who want XBMC it's not going to get ported or certified as a B/C without a dev kit so go wonder
thats a possibility, but at the same time, i kind of feel that the scene would develop its own XeXDK just like what was done for ps2/gc/psp development (i belive these where done with scene made libraries, correct me if i'm wrong). i think that openXDK would be much more advanced if the regular MS XDK wasn't available.
Post by: Drunkn_Munky on January 25, 2006, 10:05:00 AM
Post by: ColdReader on January 25, 2006, 12:50:00 PM
Post by: blue45 on January 25, 2006, 05:03:00 PM
oh how are you doing blue45?
im doing good thanks
im doing good thanks
Post by: mikedavis2838 on January 26, 2006, 04:39:00 AM
Post by: polybus on January 26, 2006, 08:33:00 AM
QUOTE(blue45 @ Jan 26 2006, 01:10 AM)
I for one think this is just very bad business, and i would think having a modchip would even want a person more to buy a 360. Maybe not all of the games that come with it, but it would for sure boost the console sales.
MS loses mad money on all console sales. They have to regain it with game sales.
Post by: Anarchy99 on January 27, 2006, 12:29:00 PM
QUOTE(polybus @ Jan 26 2006, 04:40 PM)
MS loses mad money on all console sales. They have to regain it with game sales.
yes but if you only buy a console if it can be modded like me and many others you wont buy the 360
whither you buy one or not the one you would have bought is manufactured so even if its sold at a loss they gain money they wouldnt have so instead of being $600 or what ever these cost to make they are only loosing $150 or what have you now times that by a couple thousand consoles maybe even millions and thats a lot
modding helps consoles
i know i originally bought my xbox to pirate and i did
but id end up playing the for a weekend and throwing it away with a few fun exceptions
but i bought over a dozen games
and no i wouldnt have bought more if i couldn't mod cause like most real people im a cheap bastard who rationalizes living is more important then a game so id play what i have and maybe rent 1 or 2 a month more
truthfully i ended up using it as a media center mostly anyway and still do
il wait and see how the ps3 or revolution are but from the looks M$ lost my sale to them(good way to be #1 M$)
Post by: fandabidozi on January 27, 2006, 01:22:00 PM
They also only regain a minor percentage of game sales most of the dosh goes to the publisher and the developer....
If I had an idea for a movie and it got released I wouldnt sell it with a contract which said il have 10% and you can have the rest.. especially in the games industry which is now larger than the movie industry...
Post by: bdf24 on January 28, 2006, 05:23:00 AM
QUOTE(Anarchy99 @ Jan 27 2006, 01:36 PM)
yes but if you only buy a console if it can be modded like me and many others you wont buy the 360
whither you buy one or not the one you would have bought is manufactured so even if its sold at a loss they gain money they wouldnt have so instead of being $600 or what ever these cost to make they are only loosing $150 or what have you now times that by a couple thousand consoles maybe even millions and thats a lot
modding helps consoles
i know i originally bought my xbox to pirate and i did
but id end up playing the for a weekend and throwing it away with a few fun exceptions
but i bought over a dozen games
and no i wouldnt have bought more if i couldn't mod cause like most real people im a cheap bastard who rationalizes living is more important then a game so id play what i have and maybe rent 1 or 2 a month more
truthfully i ended up using it as a media center mostly anyway and still do
il wait and see how the ps3 or revolution are but from the looks M$ lost my sale to them(good way to be #1 M$)
Sorry but modders make up a very small percentage of gamers buying consoles. Not nearly enough for MS to hold back sales to avoid a modchip or hack from being developed!
Post by: posiedon on January 28, 2006, 04:02:00 PM
so there are not that many prople in the game with us
although large forums like this are misleading, just remember that the members of this forum are spread out all over the world
and believe me we do not even make a scratch in ms pocket
ms may make strides to thin us out but all they do is make us more determined to break them
the x360 will be cracked, it is just going to take longer this time because some key players are no longer "officially" in the game. also this time we have tighter security to deal with, and all the dumbasses spamming the forum with fake modchips, videos, scams, repeat topics, and stupid ideas/questions.
WE WILL SUCCEED but when we do is anybodys guess
Post by: marauderrt10 on January 28, 2006, 11:02:00 PM
QUOTE(Neilinator99 @ Jan 16 2006, 09:39 PM)
Wrong!!!! Issac Newton stated that for every action there is a equal and oppisite reaction
Then some modder said for every saftey wall there is a bulldozer
just give it some time go and enjoy xbox live untill the mod comes out
LOL what is this physics 101? Modding an xbox has nothing to do with Newtons Second law of motion LOL.
Post by: lordvader129 on January 29, 2006, 07:47:00 PM
QUOTE(marauderrt10 @ Jan 29 2006, 12:09 AM)
LOL what is this physics 101? Modding an xbox has nothing to do with Newtons Second law of motion LOL.
i think the analogy hes trying to make is that the harder MS tries to make 360 unmoddable, the harder the modding community will try to mod it
of course that doesnt mean either camp will get anywhere
Post by: lostboyz on January 30, 2006, 06:39:00 PM
QUOTE(fandabidozi @ Jan 27 2006, 02:29 PM)
MS doesnt loose money on all console sales at all that was a low feeding press assumption by totaling up the price of the bits and the price of the premium... these people make the most used software in the world and now the biggest console in the world... i think they would have priced the components before they announced the price
They also only regain a minor percentage of game sales most of the dosh goes to the publisher and the developer....
If I had an idea for a movie and it got released I wouldnt sell it with a contract which said il have 10% and you can have the rest.. especially in the games industry which is now larger than the movie industry...
no they really do lose money on each system, they did on the last one too. the idea is to keep price down, get market share and make up losses with game and periphrial sales.
Post by: Maertz on February 02, 2006, 08:02:00 AM
QUOTE(ModsINUtah @ Feb 2 2006, 07:58 AM)
Your insane if you think the ovie industry is smaller than gaming, Gaming is coing up but NOWHERE EVEN close to movies
last i heard gaming was bigger......
Post by: bdf24 on February 02, 2006, 02:50:00 PM
And I Know I've read and heard several times that the gaming industry brings in more money.
Post by: lordvader129 on February 02, 2006, 07:16:00 PM
Post by: Peter Gibbons on February 05, 2006, 01:59:00 PM
Post by: mksoftware on February 06, 2006, 06:32:00 AM
QUOTE(Peter Gibbons @ Feb 5 2006, 10:06 PM)
security holes??? not really..... this thing is like bulletproof.... but hey.... it is pretty cool that someone figured out how to run some pc apps with mce...
ROFL
Post by: vintage_guitar on February 08, 2006, 03:09:00 AM
QUOTE(TheCybologist @ Feb 7 2006, 01:53 AM)
but I download all of them first.
,or should i find a picture of an eye patch, peg leg, and parrot to suit that quote?
Post by: bdf24 on February 08, 2006, 04:32:00 AM
QUOTE(TheCybologist @ Feb 7 2006, 12:53 AM)
Same with DVD's hell i own over 400. over 3000 CD's but I download all of them first.
People are getting sued left and right by the record & Movie industry. You never know when you could be next. Is a couple of movies or music CD's worth getting sued for 60,000 or 70,000 thousand dollars?
Post by: lordvader129 on February 08, 2006, 02:23:00 PM
Post by: bdf24 on February 08, 2006, 03:48:00 PM
Thats frikin hilarious
Post by: gjm on February 13, 2006, 02:39:00 PM
No, my father was a tree, yar!
Post by: jlet19 on February 13, 2006, 04:03:00 PM
Post by: sumguy on February 17, 2006, 09:24:00 AM
as for MS dribbling out the 360 to keep modders from being able to crack it, or whatever other wack conspiracy theory is out at the moment, it is not true. the decision on how many 360s to make was made at least 1 and probably 2 years ago, when they first found out what it would cost to produce. it is pretty well documented that MS does lose money on each 360 they produce. they have to look at that and balance it against how much they can gain from game sales, peripherals, market share, etc. to increase production (build another factory) they would have to do a complete reanalysis of the entire business model. in my opinion they have probably done that and decided that it isnt worth it. right now there is a huge demand, but in a matter of months that demand will decrease, a PS3 will come out, etc. what are they supposed to do with the factory they JUST built? write it off? in summary, its not a conspiracy its just business
Post by: bdf24 on February 17, 2006, 05:44:00 PM
QUOTE(NoFace @ Feb 17 2006, 06:04 PM)
I thought this topic was complete. This is no longer a technical discussion. If you wish to voice your opinions please do so elsewhere.
Are you a new Mod? You post like you are!
Post by: bdf24 on February 18, 2006, 06:27:00 AM
QUOTE(NoFace @ Feb 18 2006, 12:10 AM)
*laughs* If I post like I do, I must be.
For Sale: new 360 mod
proof: how I talk
I meant Moderator.
Post by: bdf24 on February 18, 2006, 10:32:00 PM
QUOTE(NoFace @ Feb 18 2006, 02:16 PM)
You just have to trust me.
That quote is not from me! Sure I'll trust you
Post by: Trick_D on February 19, 2006, 05:28:00 PM
I got into the console mod scene when i found out you could chip the ps1. And when ps2 came out nobody thought it would be cracked because it was such a upgrade from the previous playstation.. and what 6 or 7 months after its release there were already swap mods and shit available.
Take a look at satillite.. if any of you follow that. Dish network and Bell xVu swapped all their smart cards to a new format.. Nagra2 (from nagra1). The nagra1 cards were pretty much cracked day1 of their release and were hacked by millions in the states and canada for 5 years. Then all those cards became obsolete when the new nagra2 cards came out.. so all hopes of getting free tv were lost..
WRONG!!! after all the impatient n00b ass testers (lol) said there would never be a nagra2 crack... wow there is. Not even 5 months after its release (and thats the public release, there were several methods circulating in private circles not even 3 months after the release of the new cards). The n2 cards were said by Bell/Dish to be their most advanced security ever.. much like MS is claiming.
I say its less then half a year till we see a fully public hack
Post by: NoFace on February 22, 2006, 09:08:00 PM
Post by: SyPTo on February 24, 2006, 07:08:00 AM
QUOTE
Take a look at satillite.. if any of you follow that. Dish network and Bell xVu swapped all their smart cards to a new format.. Nagra2 (from nagra1). The nagra1 cards were pretty much cracked day1 of their release and were hacked by millions in the states and canada for 5 years. Then all those cards became obsolete when the new nagra2 cards came out.. so all hopes of getting free tv were lost..
Actually , the reason dishnet was so easy , is because someone was able to decrypt the code, and thus the code was wide open matter effect , you didn't even need a card for dish.now for DTV where the encryption is soo good that noone has been able to decrypt it EVER.. they just find loopholes on the security and exploit them..
unlike with a console, it takes $$$$$$ lab equipment to just be able to make progress on those card, trying it will run into $'s , i can remember they tried to crack on of the satelittes in europe and threw well over $150,000 into it and after 5 years they ended giving up because it was just undoable.
well maybe it was doable, but at what cost ?...is it worth sinking more money into it then you will make out of it ?
Post by: lordvader129 on February 24, 2006, 09:25:00 AM
QUOTE(SyPTo @ Feb 24 2006, 08:15 AM)
well maybe it was doable, but at what cost ?...is it worth sinking more money into it then you will make out of it ?
thats the approach MS seems to have taken with 360, not to make it unhackable, but make it not worth hacking
Post by: VinnySem on February 24, 2006, 10:38:00 AM
If there is some form of encryption in the 360, which the chip must defeat to work, then the chip itself is inherently illegal. Defeating encyption is a federal crime under the DCMA. No mod team is going to want to risk criminal charges and litigation, not to mention the purchase paper trail of credit card transactions. If this is the case I don't think there will never be commercially available modchips. Remember all the articles of litigation against web stores selling satellite card programmers, and the people that purchased them?
With the original Xbox there was no encryption being cracked, therefore the chips themselves were legal. It was easy to get a chip from any webstore. BIOSes and compiled binaries are illegal because the XDK is copyrighted and not legally available to the masses.
Post by: VinnySem on February 24, 2006, 01:27:00 PM
QUOTE(PC_Arcade @ Feb 24 2006, 02:20 PM)
That's right 'cos EVERYONE lives in the US don't they
When last I checked, the EU has an equivalent law, one of the reasons LightningUK ceased development of DVDDecrypter.
Apparently the chip on your shoulder obscured your view and prevented you from seeing my point.
Post by: lordvader129 on February 24, 2006, 03:12:00 PM
QUOTE(PC_Arcade @ Feb 24 2006, 01:20 PM)
That's right 'cos EVERYONE lives in the US don't they
MS is a US based company, assuming they are using the same "you dont own the console your just leasing it from us" gimmick they used with xbox 1, then it should still be protected under US law, no matter what country your in
Post by: Mr_Mo on February 25, 2006, 11:26:00 AM
QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Feb 24 2006, 11:19 PM)
MS is a US based company, assuming they are using the same "you dont own the console your just leasing it from us" gimmick they used with xbox 1, then it should still be protected under US law, no matter what country your in
Ehmmm, no... US laws don't apply in DK. Do you really think retailers would lease something from MS and then sell it?
Post by: lordvader129 on February 25, 2006, 03:49:00 PM
QUOTE(Mr_Mo @ Feb 25 2006, 12:33 PM)
Ehmmm, no... US laws don't apply in DK. Do you really think retailers would lease something from MS and then sell it?
the end consumer is the one leasing it, the retailer is just the middle man
Post by: PC_Arcade on February 27, 2006, 02:24:00 AM
QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Feb 25 2006, 10:56 PM)
the end consumer is the one leasing it, the retailer is just the middle man
As far as I can see that's not the case in the UK either, there's nothing in packaging in either the xbox nor the 360 that suggests I'm "leasing" it, nor did I sign a leasing agreement or have it pointed out to me that I don't own the console(s) at any time.
Where do you get this information from? Because if it IS the case, I'll return my 360 for a refund
Post by: SigmaXIX on February 27, 2006, 08:40:00 PM
QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Feb 25 2006, 11:56 PM)
the end consumer is the one leasing it, the retailer is just the middle man
Well, I read that EULA for XBox live, as there was no EULA for the console itself. Actually, unlike laptop computers, there was no disclaimer that said "If you do not agree to the terms of the enclosed EULA then please return the product." There was no license agreement when you first boot the console, either. With that in mind, We own our consoles.
I bought this console... Therefore, what you are referring to is what I call "Crazy Talk".
MS really doesn't have a right to the property I purchased from them. Where in the $@*% do you get that $&@* from?
And, if a Modchip is released on the Xbox360, you'll probably have to download the BIOS through usual methods, to keep it *legal*.
I just don't see a modchip being released anytime soon, as much as people are trying or want it. It'll be like 50 wires and come out 2008 (when the XeXDK is available, Live! Updates stop being included in new games, and a non-patchable flaw is discovered). Not to say I am not looking forward to the mods, because I certainly am.
Post by: Questioner on February 28, 2006, 08:41:00 AM
Post by: VinnySem on February 28, 2006, 11:07:00 AM
Post by: krayzie on February 28, 2006, 11:31:00 AM
And for the poster above...I'm sure companies can update/eliminate or whatever hardware that they are actively connected to like through satelite tv networking or xbox live (or even via gamediscs) but if you take away that factor they cannot ever do anything about it.
Post by: VinnySem on March 01, 2006, 10:25:00 AM
QUOTE(krayzie @ Feb 28 2006, 01:38 PM)
Even though the hardware may be your property it's stated in both DMCA and similar European laws that it is not legal to circumvent copy protection with the intention to play illegally obtained code.
Exactly my point krayzie. With M$'s strict licensing of the console SDK's, in a cout of law I bet it would be interpreted that any homebrew software is illegal because homebrew developers don't have a license for the SDK. The exception to that is the OpenXDK, Cromwell BIOS, and XboxLinux projects.
QUOTE(krayzie @ Feb 28 2006, 01:38 PM)
And for the poster above...I'm sure companies can update/eliminate or whatever hardware that they are actively connected to like through satelite tv networking or xbox live (or even via gamediscs) but if you take away that factor they cannot ever do anything about it.
Yes, that is very true. That being said, do you think the commerce of these chips would be virtually eliminated by virtue of the paper trail involved in any transaction (i.e. credit card receipts, shipping logs, etc.) I know I wouldn't want to sell or buy such an item if I knew there was a great chance fire and brimstone would be rained down from Redmond. I am just thinking back to several court cases I've read about concerning DirecTV and smart card programming, where they were pressing charges and suing people for owning smart card programmers that had never even been DirecTV subscribers, much the same way the RIAA is suing people that have been deceased for 60 years for downloading music from the afterlife.
Look, I'm not agreeing with these companies' practices, I'm just thinking aloud. Believe me I would love to see a multithreaded "XB360MC". Imagine having 2 detachable hard drives and a switchable chip; turn the chip off and use one drive for playing on Live!, switch the chip on and use the other drive for XB360MC or other alternate dashboards.
Post by: krayzie on March 01, 2006, 12:31:00 PM
Post by: Jstraw on March 03, 2006, 11:52:00 PM
Uh oh...This cat has just gone dark. 
Post by: Rodstorm on March 04, 2006, 05:39:00 AM
I dont know about you guys but I cant afford $100-$110 AUD everytime a new game comes out that I want.
If the software companies made games cheaper we'd all buy them and not pirate them.
Then you get the other side, the weaker side, saying they charge so much to make up for the revenue they lose from software being pirated which I think is more of an excuse than a reason.
I'd like to see whatever comes our way not be playable on Live as that is an unfair advantage but while games are expensive we will always go for the cheaper alternative.....pirating.
It has nothing to do with ripping developers off its just purely a consumer cost thing.
Post by: bowser22 on March 04, 2006, 06:32:00 AM
Post by: bdf24 on March 04, 2006, 08:54:00 AM
QUOTE(bowser22 @ Mar 4 2006, 07:39 AM)
Exactly Rodstorm,lots of people here cant just run out and buy a game right away,if they sold the games cheaper they would probably make the same profit,saying 2 in 4 people will buy their 70$ games but if you lower the price to say 30$ more than 4 in 4 people will buy them making just as much profit
QUOTE(Rodstorm @ Mar 4 2006, 06:46 AM)
Theres one point here I think everyone missed, whether we get a modchip or a boot disc in time, is the cost of original games.
I dont know about you guys but I cant afford $100-$110 AUD everytime a new game comes out that I want.
If the software companies made games cheaper we'd all buy them and not pirate them.
Then you get the other side, the weaker side, saying they charge so much to make up for the revenue they lose from software being pirated which I think is more of an excuse than a reason.
I'd like to see whatever comes our way not be playable on Live as that is an unfair advantage but while games are expensive we will always go for the cheaper alternative.....pirating.
It has nothing to do with ripping developers off its just purely a consumer cost thing.
I'm sorry but your way of thinking is WRONG! Regardless of whether or not you believe they charge too much for a game is pointless. Pirating is illegal no matter how you look at it. Not everyone does it. If you can't afford a game don't buy it. Save up for it. Maybe rent it. I don't really see a legitimate argument in blaming the software companies for pirating. They charge what they charge. And steeling is steeling no matter how you look at it. If you were selling a car and I thought you were charging too much would you care if I just stole it from you instead? Probably not!
I don't mean to be a prude but the whole trying to justify piracy thing is retarded! You can't justify it! And I guess if you gotta do it just shut up about it and quit posting in public forums about it. Somethings are better left to your self!
Post by: Cookiesrus on March 04, 2006, 10:38:00 AM
QUOTE(krayzie @ Feb 28 2006, 06:38 PM)
Even though the hardware may be your property it's stated in both DMCA and similar European laws that it is not legal to circumvent copy protection with the intention to play illegally obtained code.
And for the poster above...I'm sure companies can update/eliminate or whatever hardware that they are actively connected to like through satelite tv networking or xbox live (or even via gamediscs) but if you take away that factor they cannot ever do anything about it.
Well call me dumb, but i live in the UK and have smoked pot for years (which is illegal), as of yet the gestapo havent burst in and made me put out my spliff or arrested me. I even have a couple of illegal backups for xbox 1 (shock, horror!). Again im still here typing this.
I guess what im trying to say is "fuck the law" when a chip comes i WILL buy it regardless of the legal ramifications that may or may not follow.
So will a good portion of fellow 360 users!
Post by: VinnySem on March 04, 2006, 11:29:00 AM
QUOTE(Cookiesrus @ Mar 4 2006, 12:45 PM)
Well call me dumb, but i live in the UK and have smoked pot for years (which is illegal), as of yet the gestapo havent burst in and made me put out my spliff or arrested me.
I bet if your cronic cut into the commerce of a multi-billion dollar international company they'd bust down your door and give you the latex finger.
Post by: Rodstorm on March 04, 2006, 04:39:00 PM
We're talking videogames not thousands of dollars on cars and that was a poor analogy.
Stealing?????? You've never taped a tv show off your tv, thats stealing copyrighted material as well.
Like you said some things are better left to yourself.
I have 3 kids, you obviously dont.
MS have my money as I brought thier console but if I can get something for cheaper anyway possible thats the same quality then of course I and the majority of people are going to have a look at it.
Make games cheaper and the bulk of piracy would go away, the software companies since the Commodore64 still havent learnt this.
Of course MS knows about piracy but they win as they sell more consoles to play the games, that was Sony's big card with the psx one.
And as for his thread being necessary, you dont have to read it.....theres plenty more on here to read.
Post by: torvald on March 04, 2006, 10:09:00 PM
QUOTE(Rodstorm @ Mar 5 2006, 12:46 AM)
I can see your point of view bdf24 but I dont agree with it.
We're talking videogames not thousands of dollars on cars and that was a poor analogy.
Stealing?????? You've never taped a tv show off your tv, thats stealing copyrighted material as well.
Not really thats called "fair use" and is legal, now if you turn around and sell it for a profit then it's illegal
QUOTE
Of course MS knows about piracy but they win as they sell more consoles to play the games, that was Sony's big card with the psx one.
I would suspect abotu 25% of the peolpe is the "Scene" are employees of MS and other Game companies.
Post by: CattyKid on March 04, 2006, 11:42:00 PM
QUOTE(Rodstorm @ Mar 4 2006, 06:46 PM)
Of course MS knows about piracy but they win as they sell more consoles to play the games, that was Sony's big card with the psx one.
And as for his thread being necessary, you dont have to read it.....theres plenty more on here to read.
MS has lost money on EVERY Xbox sold since launch day (and still loses money on each one to this day), so that's not a valid point.
But I do agree that games are overpriced and lowering the price would eliminate a large part of piracy. Obviously, many will still pirate, but many will also not.
As for bdf24, can I return a $50 game if I play it and it's horrible? Can I rent a game and exchange it the next day telling them it's a "bad" game? With prices so high, you don't want to make the mistake of getting a peice of crap for $50, or $7 if you rent. Not saying I agree with anyone, just playing Devil's Advocate.
Post by: sumguy on March 07, 2006, 12:17:00 PM
QUOTE
Not really thats called "fair use" and is legal
actually under the DMCA the concept of fair use was pretty much eliminated. if a copyright holder wanted to prosecute you for taping a program they could. now the obvious question is then how do dvr's fit into that? the answer is that they don't. the problem with the dmca is that large portions of it would be struck down if a company were to try and persue all of the legal remedies that it provides. that is the biggest reason copyright holders are so very carefull about who they sue: people in obvious violation (file traders) or people without the means to adequately defend themselves and therefore forced to settle. this does a couple of things. first it creates legal precedent and inch at a time, and second, it establishes in the mind of the public at large the idea that copyrights are absolute. perception then becomes reality and it doesn't really matter anymore what the law really says.
Post by: FoxRacR17 on March 08, 2006, 12:37:00 AM
Post by: dinzy on March 13, 2006, 04:24:00 PM
QUOTE(bdf24 @ Mar 4 2006, 05:01 PM)
I'm sorry but your way of thinking is WRONG! Regardless of whether or not you believe they charge too much for a game is pointless. Pirating is illegal no matter how you look at it. Not everyone does it. If you can't afford a game don't buy it. Save up for it. Maybe rent it. I don't really see a legitimate argument in blaming the software companies for pirating. They charge what they charge. And steeling is steeling no matter how you look at it. If you were selling a car and I thought you were charging too much would you care if I just stole it from you instead? Probably not!
I don't mean to be a prude but the whole trying to justify piracy thing is retarded! You can't justify it! And I guess if you gotta do it just shut up about it and quit posting in public forums about it. Somethings are better left to your self!
Piracy and theft, in the classical sense, are not the same thing and I am really getting sick of people making that analogy. If you were to steal my car I would be without a car. If you go into a store and steal a cd then they do not have the CD to sell and are out the wholesale cost of buying it and any profit gained if they need that one cd to sell to a customer who wanted it. When you download something or copy it you are not getting the actual product, rather a digital representation of that product that retains most of the original functionality. This is clearly different than stealing a physical item. If anything it is closer to patent infringement since you are taking an "idea" and using it w/o obtaining permission or paying licensing fees.
I am not justifying anything I am just pointing out that there really isn't a 1:1 correspondance to physical theft and intellectual property theft. I also want to point out that intellectual property theft is driven by economics to some extent. With the xbox one needed to pay for the mod chip, means of installation(soldering iron, etc) ,DVD R drive/media and or a larger HDD and let's not forget the actual console/pc/mp3player, bandwith etc. Whether the pirater realizes it or not he/she is paying less for the game/album rather than getting it for free and at the same time many other parties are profiting from it. So in a sense the user you are bashing is just stating the truth. If games were cheaper then there would be less incentive to pirtate due to these startup costs. It may not justify the action but it is true.
Post by: constanboi on March 15, 2006, 09:16:00 AM
QUOTE(ic3man1999 @ Mar 14 2006, 02:11 AM)
Well said dinzy.
I mean i read an advert on a DVD once that was making the comparison with piracy to theft (the add is on alot of UK rental dvd's) and it also suggested that piracy funds terrorism LOL im sure that every single crime in the land can somehow be tied to another more serious crime at some point in history but thats a pretty big gernalisation
haha Ive seen that advert.. 'funds terrorism'
x50
Post by: hazpha on March 17, 2006, 02:22:00 PM
Post by: bdf24 on March 17, 2006, 02:48:00 PM
QUOTE(hazpha @ Mar 17 2006, 03:29 PM)
maybe all us gamers should form a kind of strike and not buy any more games until the put game prices down. We could put banners on websites and everything. Just an idea though.
Yeah, that'll work
How about this. Just wait a year or so till you can pick up the same game in a bin for $5.00 at the store.
Post by: Grim187 on March 17, 2006, 03:34:00 PM
QUOTE(hazpha @ Mar 17 2006, 01:29 PM)
maybe all us gamers should form a kind of strike and not buy any more games until the put game prices down. We could put banners on websites and everything. Just an idea though.
Ya that wouldent work, ive been doing just that(not buying games) for years, i bleave the last game i bought was GT3 for ps2 in 2002, not to say i havent been given games like PDZ and Kameo by 360's SRC
Post by: sinister slipknot on March 17, 2006, 06:42:00 PM
Post by: networkBoy on March 17, 2006, 09:00:00 PM
QUOTE(sinister slipknot @ Mar 18 2006, 02:49 AM)
As long as backups can't be played on Live and chips have to be disabled it looks doubtful for 360 cheaters as the 360 doesn't seem to cache data like the Xbox did, you can run 360 games without a hard drive, so it must put it in a RAM which as far as i know can't be hacked like a cache.
Sure it can, it's just a lot harder. There is no reason you can not patch the image in the memory chip its self, in fact I beleive that's how some PS2 chips worked? A similar premise is how ICE works on the Windows kernal.
-nB
Post by: krayzie on March 17, 2006, 11:47:00 PM
Post by: sasuke16 on March 21, 2006, 07:03:00 PM
. Heres my question: IS IT NOW POSSIBLE PLAYING BACKUPS 360 GAMES!?
Post by: vintage_guitar on March 30, 2006, 11:36:00 PM