Post by: marksu on April 19, 2004, 12:29:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| by Ozxodus Super Crypt Stealth ACT. Super = super, Crypt Stealth= secret, A.C.T.= Anti Clone Technology. So, once the shock and horror has sunk in let us assure you of our GUARANTEE! We can, we already have, and we will continue to remove our OS from any fake chip. PERIOD. Many fakes have already started to die and the rest will soon follow. It is just a matter of time. |
Finally we see the down fall of clone xeniums!
This is what I have been waiting for a long time now!!!
EDIT:
Autch Sorry admin, I forgot the rule no clone stuff on the forum.
You can delete or lock this thread. Sorry.
Still it is good for ppl to know why possibly their mod are dying (they have a fake).
Post by: Potenza on April 19, 2004, 01:01:00 AM
And the Irony of it all, a chip which could potentially be used by many to infringe copywrights, is itself protected for its'own copywright.
Post by: alg5 on April 19, 2004, 01:21:00 AM
i don't see this as a good things
Best way to avoid trouble is to not buy xenium anymore...
Post by: Morglum on April 19, 2004, 01:25:00 AM
| QUOTE (alg5 @ Apr 19 2004, 09:21 AM) |
| Ozxodus killing people other hardware... i don't see this as a good things Best way to avoid trouble is to not buy xenium anymore... |
Theyre stopping other peoples hardware running their software. The hardware will be fine, but it needs their software to run. If they dont want others using their software thats upto them.
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 19, 2004, 01:32:00 AM
Let the game begin......
Post by: No_Remorse_666 on April 19, 2004, 02:41:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Ozxodus killing people other hardware... i don't see this as a good things Best way to avoid trouble is to not buy xenium anymore... |
More like, Best way to avoid trouble is to not buy xenium CLONE.
Post by: techdata on April 19, 2004, 03:25:00 AM
Total of 3 hints and warnings
I bet all the Clone sellers are fucked now... imagine how many chips they have to return and refund the customers
hassle + credit card charges + loss of reputation + general loss of business
OzXodus had ACT all the time and did a great job with implementing it,
This exaplins all the dying fake xeniums LOL.
I wonder what the cloners are saying now!
Note to cloners.: DIE
Post by: vindiesel on April 19, 2004, 03:51:00 AM
Post by: Josh Adams on April 19, 2004, 05:01:00 AM
I always had faith that OzXodus would protect my Xenium investment.
Death to the clones! A glorious day for the scene imo.
Post by: ColSandoz on April 19, 2004, 05:13:00 AM
Its a good idea and all, I like ozxodus as much as the next xenium owner, and I dont like seeing their intelectual property stolen, but they keep on showing their hand to the competition...
just my 2 cents.
Post by: krawhitham on April 19, 2004, 07:15:00 AM
REAL SMART OzXodus
Post by: erexx on April 19, 2004, 10:20:00 AM
If they expect to use this to their advantage.
Then they better build in a message explaining why the chip was "killed"
That way at least there will be little doubt as to whether ACT killed the chip or not.
This will help
Pinpoint modchip sellers selling clones.
Whether or not ACT is capable of killing an original Xenium chip.
Post by: marksu on April 19, 2004, 10:22:00 AM
| QUOTE (erexx @ Apr 19 2004, 07:20 PM) |
| IMO If they expect to use this to their advantage. Then they better build in a message explaining why the chip was "killed" That way at least there will be little doubt as to whether ACT killed the chip or not. This will help Pinpoint modchip sellers selling clones. Whether or not ACT is capable of killing an original Xenium chip. |
Well they allready have a list of Confirmed clone sellers.
AND
To identify a clone link here.
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 19, 2004, 10:39:00 AM
| QUOTE (ColSandoz @ Apr 19 2004, 08:13 AM) |
| I dont get why they would reveal this, wouldent it work just as well keeping it a secret? Isent this just asking for someone to make a patched replacement OS? Its a good idea and all, I like ozxodus as much as the next xenium owner, and I dont like seeing their intelectual property stolen, but they keep on showing their hand to the competition... just my 2 cents. |
Ah... but the XOS is encrypted using what i suspect is quite heavy encryption...
however...
the leaked 1.1 XOS doesn't contain that encryption... thats why it could be looked at with notepad.....
Post by: alg5 on April 19, 2004, 11:56:00 AM
| QUOTE (chipshop @ Apr 19 2004, 05:11 PM) |
| Also i see a lot of problems comming out with this if its true and original chips will die as well,the same thing happened with Sky cards a few years ago and original fully subscirbed cards got shut down with the clone ones! A potential disaster for Xenium team as well! |
in europe sat hacking, recently we face the same nasty things. people selling original titanium card put files to kill fake titanium card.
but soon after, there were software that kill BOTH titanium card: true and clone !
in real hacking ethics, killing people hardware SHOULDN'T be allowed !
blame Team OzXodus to choose this solution...
Post by: phigmeta on April 19, 2004, 12:15:00 PM
I am unimpressed
Post by: erexx on April 19, 2004, 12:17:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Well they allready have a list of Confirmed clone sellers. AND To identify a clone link here. |
Well known information.
What's the point here regarding the use of ACT?
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 19, 2004, 12:18:00 PM
Post by: marksu on April 19, 2004, 12:23:00 PM
| QUOTE (GomerPyle @ Apr 19 2004, 09:12 PM) |
| when executer implements this ACT technology for their Xecuter 3 Bios what will Xenium use as a bios then? Or can we expect Xenium to make their own bioses? |
Well we are using same biosses that we are using now.
Post by: muerte on April 19, 2004, 12:44:00 PM
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 19, 2004, 12:50:00 PM
You want to use XOS 2?
GO BUY A FUCKING XENIUM!!!!
Post by: phunzoid on April 19, 2004, 01:07:00 PM
| QUOTE (Whiskey~Flame @ Apr 19 2004, 09:42 PM) |
| ...Xenium will leave me without a modchip and basically a fucked up xbox if I attemp to upgrade the OS on my clone....DOes this mean that I can persue legal action against Xenium if my modchip is destroyed by their malacious code?... |
ummm....you KNOW you have a FAKE, and you KNOW that any further OS updates "can" screw your chip...but you're STILL considering further updates?!?!....and then you wanna blame OzX for any future problems?!?!?
let me know how your lawsuit goes
Post by: No_Remorse_666 on April 19, 2004, 01:15:00 PM
That makes sence, lets blame OzXodusbecause you bought a clone. The person you need to be pointing your
finger at is the seller that sold you the clone. OzXodus owes you nothing.
Post by: Whiskey~Flame on April 19, 2004, 01:50:00 PM
I have in the past purchased an X-BIT from diveneo (official retailler for Xbit and Xenium), the chip came DOA and they would not give me a refund. What makes you think that a clone dealler would refund me for my losses if the official retaillers will not? At least the clone works!!
Hopefully, somebody will crack this bullshit ACT and I will continue to upgrade XOS on my clone.
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 19, 2004, 01:56:00 PM
If you didn't buy a clone... you wouldn't be in this mess...
Post by: wetmonkey on April 19, 2004, 02:04:00 PM
I guess next time some ass bitches like a lil cunt i will just demand him to R&D my ass a chip and support it for free.
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 19, 2004, 02:10:00 PM
i copy my games to the HD so i don't have to take 20 DVDs on trips....
because you assume everyone else has pirated games... you must have them yourself....
so..... shutup pirate kiddie....
Post by: shmokes on April 19, 2004, 02:18:00 PM
| QUOTE (EmperorPsiblade @ Apr 19 2004, 11:10 PM) |
| none of us pirate games stupid.... i copy my games to the HD so i don't have to take 20 DVDs on trips.... because you assume everyone else has pirated games... you must have them yourself.... so..... shutup pirate kiddie.... |
mmm-hmmm....good one.Love,
pirate kiddie XOXOXO
Post by: Kmoney on April 19, 2004, 03:50:00 PM
Post by: wetmonkey on April 19, 2004, 05:24:00 PM
Post by: Headly on April 19, 2004, 05:40:00 PM
ACT would not necessarily fry your chip rendering it unusable. Fried chips are more often due to bad hardware design or poor installation. It could be configured to display a certain screen or color code from the lcd if installed on a clone. Since your destributor sold you a clone whithout telling you they legally have to give you a real xenium or refund right? I understand this could be a pain but it is for their protection and ours.
Post by: ColSandoz on April 19, 2004, 06:09:00 PM
it includes 34 xbox games (plus games for many other systems)... total estimated value is near $3000... I use my modded xbox for the extra features, quick loading, and not having to put in disks every time I want to switch games...
just because you are a theif does not make everyone here a theif.
Post by: HSDEMONZ on April 19, 2004, 06:36:00 PM
Enough with the "real reasons" people buy chips.
OzXodus added features to their OS that screws overs the clones. That is the issue. Stop the rest of this bickering non-sense.
OzXodus OS is for Authentic OzXodus Chips. God help anyone not using an authentic chip.
Should they have done this.. hard to say. Clearly people are maliciously attacking OzXodus and their chip / biz model.
What's done is done. People who bought a clone and did not know it when they bought it.. should still try to get a refund from their supplier.. and if that fails.. contact the authorities where possible. Contact Visa as well if it was used.
OzXodus with this OS features can't stop cloners.. but you the consumers.. can!
Post by: Soup on April 19, 2004, 07:56:00 PM
It's a bit ironic that this may lead to two layers of hacked BIOSes (hacked XOS + hacked MS)...
Post by: stealth on April 19, 2004, 09:13:00 PM
| QUOTE |
The biggest problem with any 'self destruct' mechanism is, obviously, what if it happens on a 'real' device? You can be the best coder in the world, and still have a bug in your 'is it really my product' detect code. |
Almost any software systems can have accidental problems that ruin a product. Your example is akin to a bug/crash in a game accidentally wiping out the root dir entry of the xbox system partition. Sure it can happen, but the odds are incredibly slim. Also, if the killed chip is a legit one, I would imagine the official retailers will provide a replacement.
| QUOTE |
Also, as others have pointed out, it'll be simple for any reasonably skilled hacker to reverse-engineer any OS release and remove any self-destruct code. So, a serious 'clone' company can continue to get the new OS features. |
This becomes a rather annoying and difficult customer support issue for the cloners, if they have to crack every new version, and prevent naive users from downloading the authentic update, which they are more likely to hear about from reputable news sites such as this. If OzXodus decides to start releasing new features on a regular basis, and changes the protections every time, it sure seems like that would be a headache for the cloners.
Post by: sega27 on April 19, 2004, 10:55:00 PM
As far as potential customers for Xenium 2... they are never going to make a Xenium 2 if 1/2 of their customers buy Xenium clones.
Post by: tiger on April 19, 2004, 11:46:00 PM
Desides correct me if I am wrong but did the team not repeatedly worn the public not to buy clones?
who in this world gives things away for free?
Post by: ColSandoz on April 20, 2004, 12:05:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| who in this world gives things away for free? |
just look at your xbox harddrive... 99% open-source
Post by: abhorrent on April 20, 2004, 04:50:00 AM
Post by: marksu on April 20, 2004, 05:09:00 AM
This thread has been allowed propably cause it is directed to the ACT feature and not genereal clone discussion crap. All respect to the admins for that!
This theread is only ment for ACT discussion nothing else.
If general clone crap discussion on this thread continues even this thread is getting closed. THAT IS THE FACT.
There fore keep discussion directed on "ACT" ONLY.
EDIT: If not then I see that the thread has allready served its purpose and can be closed.
Post by: thecheekymonkey on April 20, 2004, 06:18:00 AM
), so no live support, basically make it act just like a 3rd gen chip, allow it to boot backups only, and no other featuresif you release this update, your more foolish than i thought, and obviously havent thought this through enough!
just my 2 pennoth!
feel free to flame kiddies!
Post by: Sacrilego on April 20, 2004, 06:27:00 AM
Post by: marksu on April 20, 2004, 06:28:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| heh, I think only booting the original bios would be a better punishment , you'll lose a lot more features with that alone. |
Not a bad idea. Still it would need to be bulet proof that it cant be cracked.
Disabling the mode totally would be bullet proof, sure is a bit ruff action but bullet proof.
Post by: SigTom on April 20, 2004, 07:09:00 AM
This also reminds me of DRM. I havent installed this on my WinXP machine, as Im not sure about it yet. What if MS had made it a hidden update, and it also destroyed my mobo because I had some music on my computer that wasnt registered to work with DRM, so MS decided to take care of it. There would be outcry from the farthest land, no MS, youve done wrong, infringed on my benefits as a consumer. I bought this computer, and should be the one who chooses how it should be used. Isnt this the same argument we has modchip users use against MS when it comes to the XBox? EULA be damned, we dont rent, or partially own our XBoxes, and we want to decide how we use it, as a Linux computer, as a OEM Xbox, or as a modded one. I think the actions of OX introducing this malware (thats what it is, its malicious in intent and actions) into thier OS. Its setting a DANGEROUS standard. Whats to say they dont introduce another hidden piece od software in the next updates that will only allow you to use your Xbox when your using a certain size HDD for example, or anythig else in that vein. Sure I want to be able to modify my BIOS, change the name etc, but once again, I should be able to choose how that software is used on my hardware. yes, they should get paid for thier hardwork, but I should also have the last say on what happens to hardware that I bought, clones or no. Is there any sort of EULA from OX? Have they made their consumers aware, thru normal channels, not teh website or x-s.com, that such a piece of software is on thier chip? When you OEM Xenium owners received your chips, was there any sort of paper explaining what your rights as a owner are? Did they make you aware at the time of purchase about the malware on yoru chip? This is a MAJOR factor in the decision process. You say its a one in a million chance that this ACT would fuck up and erase an OEM chip? Well, what if it does happen to that millionth customer, is OX going to make amends and work with that customer? Have they provided any out if it does happen? Apparently, no they havent, as there is no info about it.
I can honestly say, I will never buy another one of OX chips for any customer of mine, and if anyone I know wants to buy one, I will make sure they dont, as they the consumer do not have the last say about what happens to that hardware. Why would you want a chip, clone or OEM, that has the possibility of being erased, rendering it useless. If you wated to secure your chips OX, there are alot of other ways. Hell, why dont you guys become the ONLY reseller, that way the ONLY place someone can buy YOUR chip is FROM you. If its bought ANYWHERE else, it has to be a clone. Your safe, your HW is safe, and you dont have to worry about this shit. Make it known to the novice and experienced buyer that the only option they have to buy an OEM chip is to contact OX and get it from them. Once thats known, no more of the 'I didnt know it was a clone' or the cloners taking respectful buyers for a ride.
Remember a few months back when MS updated everyone to Live 2.0 and the fonts exploit was removed? Remember the OUTRAGE that someone outside of the owner made the decision to interfere with the hardware? What is the difference here? None.
Post by: phunzoid on April 20, 2004, 07:20:00 AM
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 20, 2004, 07:28:00 AM
phunzoid, you are a genius.... i was waiting for someone smart enough to say this....
Post by: tiger on April 20, 2004, 07:33:00 AM
Post by: M2bored on April 20, 2004, 07:39:00 AM
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 20, 2004, 07:50:00 AM
You go cheap and buy from a shady website.... it's your own damn fault and you are a moron....
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 20, 2004, 07:55:00 AM
the clones have been failing because they are low quality...
WHY DOES EVERYONE EVEN CARE UNLESS THEY HAVE A CLONE!!!????
Post by: SigTom on April 20, 2004, 08:10:00 AM
And honestly, lets stop smell the shit for what it is, everyone who runs any cracked/hacked BIOS is doing exaclty the same sort of thing to MS as the cloners are doing to OzX, using their software w/o thier permission or reimbursement. So why havent any of you said that we should stop using chips altogether?
Post by: newbie_te on April 20, 2004, 08:27:00 AM
And for all those people who knowingly bought clones.... should you not be seeking support from the members of the clone/fake team rather than the ozxodus team.
For all those who where sold a fake as an original ...sue the F****** company who sold it to you if they will not give you your money back.
Post by: Teaser69 on April 20, 2004, 08:27:00 AM
| QUOTE (SigTom @ Apr 20 2004, 05:10 PM) |
| What if one of my customers with a Xenium chip comes to me and says, my OS has been erased, I dont know why. What do I do? The onus would be on me at that point, I would be doing work for OzX, and Im not getting paid to do so. Thats why I will not recommend this chip for customers, as I do not want even slightest cunt hair's of a chance that this would screw up a chip I installed. |
U Wood hav 2 xplane y U ripped them off by selling them a clone
Wow don't sell much do you
SmartXX chips nope
They made OS's before that killed there chips and peoples xbox even
So no sales there
Xecutor chips nope
Well some of them are aparently flawed as 4982 proved
Face it your just bitchin because your clone chips you ripped people off for over the last 2 months are about to die and your going to have to pay the price
EDIT as for oz_paulb's post if you read it and well know anything you'll wet your pants laughing by the end of it
Post by: SigTom on April 20, 2004, 08:31:00 AM
When the xecuter BIOS didnt work correctly, thats fine, I can reflash that, weve been given instructions on how to recover from that, same as with the SmartXX. Where are the instructions for recovering your OFFICIAL Xenium chip, bought from an OFFICIAL OzX resller IF the OS is erased?
Post by: Sacrilego on April 20, 2004, 08:47:00 AM
I wonder how possible that would be with their current software implementation though.
I wouldn't worry too much about dead clones, the recovery feature of the xenium would allow you to reflash the Dolly xenium with the older versions of the OS.
I guess they could make so that once you unkowningly flash a clone eith the newer os it'll display a "Dude, you have a clone" message then boot the original bios.
This way the user has the choice of keeping the clone and reflashing with 1.x in recovery mode or get his money back etc.
I bought an original and I think it's worth every penny.
BTW for those that don't get the Dolly reference, Dolly was a sheep cloned from an adult cell that died early.
Post by: SigTom on April 20, 2004, 08:48:00 AM
Post by: Xbox-Gear on April 20, 2004, 08:58:00 AM
Clones should NOT exist in the first place. They are exploitation of OzXodus hard work and revolutionary developments. Why should a bunch of eneducated fools , come on to this scene and Copy many months , perhaps years of hardwork and flog it off as their own , as if this wasn't bad enough they even RELY on the good OzXodus rep to sell their clones and link to all their content.
Clone makers can not support themself, they cannot innovate nor can tell thier arse from their elbow , they're out for a quick buck and will NEVER develop or encourage mod development or any type of scene development.
OzXodus have every right to defend their own product and LOYAL fans , Why should their hardwork not be rewarded , instead what should be money returning to OzXodus for Research and Development purposes is shared by a bunch of faceless cowards. Now as a result of sheer arrogance and greed (buying clones a few dollars cheaper than originals) resellers will be left with an angry backlash of customers as a result of the shoddy clone. The responsibility is with the seller all the way , they take the risk when buying the clones and selling them to the public.
It's funny how the tables have turned indeed!
Some people on these forums , blatantly biased towards clones based on alterior motives , are asking how can OzXodus do this to consumers ?
I ask you to remember this is not an OzXodus product in any shape or form , but a barrier in their quest for sucess. The clone is putting their reputation into jeaporday and causing confusion among consumers.
Any supporters or resellers of the clones are the ones causing the damage in this scene and luring consumers into a false sense of security.
Every product is entitled to it's own protection in order to ensure it's safety and position in the market. Clones are clones , they are not endorsed or supported by OzXodus in any shape or form despite using their good name. As a result OzXodus can not take any blame in any shape or form!
Evolutionmods should do a product recall if they are any sort of business, this is a standard procedure when a SERIOUS fault is known in the product. The cloners badly mass-produced and under estimated the intelligence of OzX. Now they are left to face up to the facts.
If you cut corners in business , your negligence will catch up with you sooner or later.
Now if you want to reply and 'challenge' me do so but in a meaningful way , this consits of no resorting to flames or insults as you can not justify your views correctly.
Post by: sha on April 20, 2004, 09:11:00 AM
| QUOTE (tiger @ Apr 20 2004, 08:33 AM) |
| sha so in other words you believe that ozxodus has to distribute there operating system for free? And it is ok for the theves to steal there hard work?. let me explain something to you, it is very simple! the clone manufactures are thieves, they like to steal....., from the developers .....from the poor innocent customer and last but not least from the whole xbox community .... the only thing these useless incapable dumb assed idiots are capable of are ripping everyone off and you have the audacity to come here and defend them SHAME ON YOU !!!! |
I support customers and fellow sceners, as for the post I made it was not to alliance my self with anyone but to find a resolution for this mess OzXodus will make if they choose to kill chips.
Not to get off subject, this is not an ethics forum its a vicious circle with uneducated comments for support or against their actions.
So lets say these cloners get a free be upgrade up to 1.1 but 2.0 is not allowed. This would stop most people from purchasing a clone. Great Idea, this informs the user the products in not authentic so when they refer a friend they want the real goods. So the scamer site does not make money on the return customer.
I really do not care if they release this ACT or not but I would like to see them in business in the future. Bad PR is not a good way to promote a product or future products. Drop the price on the chips to an amount they cannot compete with and there will be no reason for someone to buy a clone. Better yet make a new chip that cannot be cloned and stop production on the old chips.
This is a sad day for the xbox-scene, who is getting kick backs here and who chooses sides? This With or Against mentality? This community was never money driven, if MS wanted they could shut down these forums for the same reason. We all love are xbox and what are genuine mods do for them but this extreme.
Also if Xbox-Scene want to support these actions they should just have a disclaimer when going before the modchip page with the risks of clone chips and give a list of authorized resellers updated every time a Manufacture gives the ok on a reseller. Then the Manufacturer should audit the reseller and purchase chips randomly to see if the chip is authentic. It sounds like allot of work but this is what customers want.
As for the comment you made shame on me. You lack reading comprehension please re-read my post and start from post 1, apology accepted.
Post by: Sacrilego on April 20, 2004, 09:16:00 AM
Even just upgrading to OS 1.1 failed on one original I installed once for no aparent reason, reflashing in recovery mode fixed that.
Anything we say or speculate right now is useless since we don't have any real information on how this feature can detect a fake from a real one, so we should refrain from slamming and flamming.
I bet we all have are concerns and SigTom's concerns are very legit.
even if 1% of originals died, it would prove very bad for big volume chip installers.
But if users are smart enough to upgrade their os they can also read ozxodus's main site news before downloading the new os and if there are any issues of original dieing xeniums, I'm sure we'll hear about it shortly after the update.
Post by: cap269 on April 20, 2004, 09:44:00 AM
| QUOTE (EmperorPsiblade @ Apr 20 2004, 10:55 AM) |
| you are taking them too literal..... the clones have been failing because they are low quality... |
Re-read the OzX news flash ... especially this part ...
"We can, we already have, and we will continue to remove our OS from any fake chip. PERIOD." ... and above that ... "No O.S; No chip. Simple enough?"
As you can see, the clones are dying because they have no OS on them. True, some may be dying due to quality issues, but I'll wager it is probably moreso they are losing their OS, so there is no code on the chip to run.
Software ALWAYS belongs to the developer/publisher, never the end user, even publicly licensed software. When you buy an official Xenium, you're also buying the license to use the Xenium-OS. If you buy a clone, you have NOT bought the license to use the OS, so OzX has the right to remove the unauthorized software. Your hardware still works, it's just blank. Like an empty disk. OzXodus has not destroyed your equipment (fake, clone, whatever you wanna call it), they have just removed something you didn't have the right to use, THEIR unlicensed software. Someone is free to develop an OS, or hack the original OS, for the clone chips, I'm sure... who's gonna stop them? I dunno.
Brilliant, if you ask me, because you really can't thwart it. You don't really know whether you have a clone or not until it is dead. Sure, there may be a few who INTENTIONALLY bought a clone, but most of the clone owners probably thought they got the real thing. When their chip dies, the RESELLER is the one who screwed them, not OzXodus. I doubt very many people told their reseller "I want of those Xenium fakes" ... there are a lot of people who get duped with other different kinds of products all the time.
There are people that unintentionally buy "fake" software all the time. Why do you think Ebay had to change their policy on software sales? What happens when that person's newly purchased bootleg MS Office glitches, and they call up MS for customer service, what do they get told? "Sure, we'll help you... " ??? NOT!! They are promptly told they need to go BUY the REAL thing, no matter how much they just spent on their unlicensed copy. It's the same deal with ACT. I consider the modchip to be MEDIA, like a CD. It is media. It's a flashrom. What you are really paying for is a LICENSE to use XENIUM OS. If you get a fake chip, you don't have the license, and you shouldn't be allowed to have it.
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 20, 2004, 10:01:00 AM
the XOS is owned by OzXodus.... So the cloners don't have a licenece and shouldn't be using the XOS....
So, the people using the Xenium CLONES do not have permission to use the XOS or to UPGRADE....
Here's my point:
MORON CLONERS, I HATE YOU ALL DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE... PEOPLE THAT BUY CLONES ARE JUST AS BAD!
Everytime you buy a clone, Artifex kills a kitten...........
Post by: HSDEMONZ on April 20, 2004, 10:08:00 AM
Post by: marksu on April 20, 2004, 10:20:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Marksu or anyone that promotes destruction, do you work for Team OzXodus ? I don't see why there is such negativity here. Did you write the OS? |
No I have nothing to do with Ozxodus.
No I don't promote destruction, but don't necessary condown it eather?
Ppl here have many nice ideas here.
I am open minded.
by sha
| QUOTE |
| So lets say these cloners get a free be upgrade up to 1.1 but 2.0 is not allowed. This would stop most people from purchasing a clone. Great Idea, this informs the user the products in not authentic so when they refer a friend they want the real goods. So the scamer site does not make money on the return customer. |
also by someone
| QUOTE |
| heh, I think only booting the original bios would be a better punishment , you'll lose a lot more features with that alone. |
Both Ideas are good.
My concern is though that cloners are also a sort of crackers, they propaply would overccome the limit. There would need to be some action to prevent cloners crack the ACT as they are wery skilled I am sure. Cause of their cracking abilities I see only bullet proof action to be disabling OS. If Ozxodus could get it bullet proof to make the above succestion actions that might be also OK.
Still cause cloners own actions (possbile cracking ACT) their them selves would be causing the extreme ACT prosesses.
Many good pointer to why disabling OS totally are also mensioned on this thread.
Keep on with the good succestions
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 20, 2004, 10:23:00 AM
| QUOTE (M2bored @ Apr 20 2004, 10:13 AM) |
| If the cloned chips are good enough they are EXACTLY the same as the real chips. Therefore all new software will run on them. The components may not be of the same quality, but chances are if hte chips WORK then they are similar enough. |
thats the problem... the clones ARE NOT good enough...
Post by: SigTom on April 20, 2004, 10:27:00 AM
Now all I want it some sort of explanation as to how OzX plans to help any Official Xenium owner whose chip may be 'accidentally' erased with this ACT, as I will be the person who is called and who is argued with about why my customers chip isnt working. Me telling a customer, contact some guys in Australia and they will help you, just isnt gonna cut it.
So how about it OzX? Im sure someone thats either affiliated with you or knows you will read this thread. What are you rplans in case this happens? And 'It wont happen' isnt a plan, its a delaying tactic.
Teaser69: I figd as much you didnt have the money to back up your talk. So be quite, and let the big boys talk.
Post by: cap269 on April 20, 2004, 10:35:00 AM
Post by: Teaser69 on April 20, 2004, 10:37:00 AM
| QUOTE (SigTom @ Apr 20 2004, 07:27 PM) |
| Teaser69: I figd as much you didnt have the money to back up your talk. So be quite, and let the big boys talk. |
Okay I'm sure the MS lawyers will love to read how modchippers and the makers of them are upsetting people ripping them off with cheep products.
And you know people like you will bring in aledged colaterol xbox damage then the media will blow it all out of proportion.
Big enough for you? bye bye modchips
Post by: marksu on April 20, 2004, 10:45:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Now all I want it some sort of explanation as to how OzX plans to help any Official Xenium owner whose chip may be 'accidentally' erased with this ACT, as I will be the person who is called and who is argued with about why my customers chip isnt working. |
We don't have any glue of how bullet proof teknics they are using to identify a clone.
Come back with that question when it is actual, and to get better response send it directly to Ozxodus.
Right now there is nothing to back up that to hapen.
Post by: SigTom on April 20, 2004, 10:59:00 AM
cap269: I certainly hope OzX will do exactly just that, give a gurantee it the OS fails, not the chip, they will replace it.
As far as waiting for it to happen and then contacting OzX, thats not the way I am. When I have to buy/use something, I like to know up front what the expected outcome will be, and if it isnt reached, what steps will be done to correct it. If something is going to fuck up on an XBox I work on, I would like it to be because of an error I made, maybe a bad solder job etc, rather than have to blame someone else. Passing the buck onto someone else in front of a customer is not the way I was taught to do business. But I will take marksu's advice and get up with OzX thru email and see if they have any concrete plans on how they would react to that happening.
Post by: cap269 on April 20, 2004, 11:01:00 AM
| QUOTE (Teaser69 @ Apr 20 2004, 02:37 PM) |
| Okay I'm sure the MS lawyers will love to read how modchippers and the makers of them are upsetting people ripping them off with cheep products. |
OzX automatically deletes THEIR OWN software from hardware designed to IMITATE their own.
MS automatically deletes EVERYBODY ELSES software from the hardware THEY designed. http://xbox-linux.so...motedelete.html
Me thinks MS is the bigger bully....
Post by: phunzoid on April 20, 2004, 11:31:00 AM
| QUOTE (GomerPyle @ Apr 20 2004, 07:25 PM) |
| ...Both you and Me know OzXodus that you dont make your own Bioses, There is some chip makers out there that do in fact make their own Bioses. As ive stated before if your chip wont load or flash to Evox or Xecutor Bioses what are you gonna do then??.... |
why the hell are you dragging Evox & Xecuter into this discussion about CLONES?
how does OzX's response to cloners have anything to do with BIOS's ?!?!
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 20, 2004, 11:42:00 AM
Post by: marksu on April 20, 2004, 12:46:00 PM
| QUOTE (kronium @ Apr 20 2004, 09:40 PM) |
| This all sounds like a great movie to me: Hey cloners, you sure do have a purty mouth. I bet you can squeal like a pig. Squeal like a pig boy. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" |
Post by: moobar on April 20, 2004, 01:59:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| ...What happens when that person's newly purchased bootleg MS Office glitches, and they call up MS for customer service, what do they get told? "Sure, we'll help you... " ??? NOT!! They are promptly told they need to go BUY the REAL thing, no matter how much they just spent on their unlicensed copy. It's the same deal with ACT... |
I think this is the best thing Ive read so far, other than the kitten killing thing.
But lets take a look at this further. Take XBox Live for instance, is not MS doing the same thing? You log on with your modchip on and MS bans that box from using Live ever again in effect disabling Live forever on that box.
It remains to be seen what will happen after ACT determines it is a clone. Will it erase the software? Will it prevent it from upgrading? Will it only boot to the original bios? Who knows..? OzXodus knows, but we dont. I could care less as I have originals.
I have installed a few original Xeniums for some friends and am not worried in the least bit about ACT acting up on their machines. If something should happen then so be it. I have all my receipts and always bought from an authorized reseller. Wether I have to deal with my reseller or directly with OzXodus doesnt matter to me as I know I have originals and the problem will get rectified.
What im more concerned about is OzXodus' sales loss and the flagrant use of its software. Just take a look at some clone sites and you'll see what I mean.
"Down with the clones!" I say
Post by: SigTom on April 20, 2004, 02:27:00 PM
But has OzX said they will swap out a chip if the OS is erased, I mean actually spcified that 'malfunction' as one that is allowed to be RMA's? All Ive seen is that they will swap it out if the hardware fails, not the software.
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 20, 2004, 02:48:00 PM
lets have some trust in OzXodus.... they will not fail us....
"Everytime you buy a clone, Artifex kills a kitten"
my new favorite saying because i made it up
heh heh heh
Post by: moobar on April 20, 2004, 02:58:00 PM
The thing is they have not even released the OS yet so we have nothing to go on. It is a fact they have stated the prior use of ACT and also stated ACT will be new and improved in the latest OS. Thats all we have to go on for the moment. Whether they release more info or guarantees on ACT remains to be seen.
I for one do not usually install "release-day" software or firmware. Heck im still using X4981.
Am I worried about ACT? No
Will I be bummed if ACT misbehaves on my Xeniums? Yes
Will I be loyal to them if I cannot rectify the problem? No
Will I have a small smirk on my face when I hear of the downfall of the clones? Yes
But really, any developer trying to implement any kind of anti-whatever technology should take every precaution. If they feel confident in it they'll release it. If not and all goes to h3ll, they just cut their own throats.
Post by: Exobex on April 20, 2004, 03:19:00 PM
| QUOTE (EmperorPsiblade @ Apr 20 2004, 10:48 PM) |
| "Everytime you buy a clone, Artifex kills a kitten" my new favorite saying because i made it up heh heh heh |
Reminds me of an ad for Virgin 1215 that was on the back cover of Viz a while back...
"Richard Branson has a bucketful of little white mice.
He's going to stamp on one, on the hour, every hour, until you tune into his new radio station."
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 20, 2004, 03:25:00 PM
Post by: mike96sc2 on April 20, 2004, 03:51:00 PM
Now if OzX wanted to really do something I suggest going with the giving the customer fair warning repeatedly their chip is a clone or whatever but allowing them to use a stripped down version or whatever of the XOS. Better yet why not skip the chip making process and license the whole deal to cloners, apparently they can do comparable for cheaper so why not let them deal with manufacturing and selling and marketing and whatever else when you can sit back and rake in the money for nothing.
Finally, there's no surefire way to beat the cloners, I definately see unofficial XOS updates on clone web sites in the future w/o the chip disabling technology.
Post by: HSDEMONZ on April 20, 2004, 07:03:00 PM
Post by: marksu on April 20, 2004, 11:05:00 PM
| QUOTE (middle73 @ Apr 21 2004, 03:07 AM) |
| All this mess with the Xenium. I had to make a decision today and since I didn't want to deal with this clone mess, I got a SmartXX. I was leaning towards the Xenium but it just looked like a hassle. |
It is easy to buy a Original Xenium. Just order it through the official resellers.
No problem, no hassle.
Happy modding, and yes both are fine mods.
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 21, 2004, 01:10:00 AM
| QUOTE (Teaser69 @ Apr 20 2004, 10:04 PM) |
| Nope they change the boot sector of your Hard drive and you computer then doesn't reboot! Go ahead try it Oh and well done on buying a SmartXX hope you never have to throw the recovery switch on it  |
the xbox doesn't boot from the HD, the boot sector is in the BIOS, why do you think you can change the boot order with XBtool?
Post by: heinrich on April 21, 2004, 05:52:00 AM
| QUOTE (marksu @ Apr 21 2004, 04:05 AM) |
| It is easy to buy a Original Xenium. Just order it through the official resellers. No problem, no hassle. Happy modding, and yes both are fine mods. |
And what happens when an official reseller sells clones?
Post by: marksu on April 21, 2004, 06:01:00 AM
| QUOTE (heinrich @ Apr 21 2004, 02:52 PM) |
| And what happens when an official reseller sells clones? |
Well I guess most of you know that allready.
It happened once causing bad publicity and revoking of the Offical Reseller title for the seller.
I am sure no offical reseller wants the same problems than that particular seller did.
But lets keep discussion on ACT only though.
Post by: heinrich on April 21, 2004, 07:03:00 AM
| QUOTE (marksu @ Apr 21 2004, 11:01 AM) |
| But lets keep discussion on ACT only though. |
you brought it up.
| QUOTE |
| Well I guess most of you know that allready. It happened once causing bad publicity and revoking of the Offical Reseller title for the seller. I am sure no offical reseller wants the same problems than that particular seller did. |
Yes, of course it did, thats why the "just buy from an official reseller" doesnt make you 100% safe. Of course, in the case of modchip.ca, they sold ONLY clones for a period of time. What happens when/if a shop ships both out. This ACT starts killing half the chips, but modchipsite.com is still buying chips from ozxodus, so who would be the wiser? It makes for very difficult support if you start killing off chips.
Post by: HSDEMONZ on April 21, 2004, 07:37:00 AM
Post by: marksu on April 21, 2004, 09:10:00 AM
Any succestion how else to prevent cracking ACT?
Post by: Soup on April 21, 2004, 09:32:00 AM
| QUOTE (marksu @ Apr 21 2004, 01:10 PM) |
| Any succestion how else to prevent cracking ACT? |
Here is (as you are so fond of saying) "the only bullet proof method" "to prevent cracking ACT": remove ACT completely and just accept the fact that there will be clones.
If ACT isn't there it's impossible to crack.
Post by: sha on April 21, 2004, 09:55:00 AM
Just release the ACT and kill some chips. Get it over with. Now that I think about it may be a good thing, who needs happy customers. If any people have trouble they will flood the OzXodus site and cause more grief on support costs. I for one will be calling them if my chip does not work. Nothing is 100 percent effective so I hope they QA this with at least 1000 chips before they plan the rollout. They may need a call center for this because allot of people will be contacting them.
The question is how many clones are out there?
Post by: marksu on April 21, 2004, 11:20:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| If the ACT code is on the clone modchip's flash chip (as part of a version of Xenium's OS), then the cloner can extract the code and reverse-engineer it. Once reverse-engineered, they can replace it with new code that has ACT disabled. |
Your point of view is directed to new version clones.
I agree with you.
I would be happy to disable all current clones sold allready though.
| QUOTE |
As someone pointed out, this can be time-consuming for the cloner (to constantly chase new OS revs made by Xenium/remove the ACT stuff), but they're in it for the money, so probably wouldn't mind the extra effort. |
True
clone users would still allways have to be afraid if there is something cloners crack missed. One day cloners make a mistake, clones says BOOOOM. After mod is without main OS and restore OS it cant be restored, cause it cant run unsigned code.
Think about avery time Ozxodus is saying soon they release new OS. Ppl are waiting avery hour, days to get it (and longer). Clone user would need to wait the OS to be release and after that they want cloner developer to crack it (if even every update version is cracked).
So they would rather buy a real one.
Post by: cap269 on April 21, 2004, 11:48:00 AM
| QUOTE (sha @ Apr 21 2004, 01:55 PM) |
| Nothing is 100 percent effective so I hope they QA this with at least 1000 chips before they plan the rollout. |
This could explain the delay in the release .....
How many clones are out there? Potentially thousands. It costs about the same to make one as it does to make many.
Post by: mike96sc2 on April 21, 2004, 01:51:00 PM
Why not work with the cloners, it's all "ooh the cloners are so bad" and I agree stealing other people's work for profit is very wrong, but it's also a valid part of business in from an economic standpoint.
I saw Xenium Clones going for like $35, Xeniums are what? like $60? so for 1/2 the price they're making the same product basically as in they both serve the same purpose. Now is OzX making $25+ on each Xenium then? I mean if they are being sold for $25 more than a clone (and the cloner has to be making some money or else they wouldn't be selling their product) then logic says the costs of a Xenium chip's manufacture and clone's manufacture would be comparble. If this is the case then easy fix = $40 Xeniums, most people who are buying clones (and know they are) are doing it for the savings, but for $5 more you've got support and OS updates and everything else.
Better yet OzX could just license the technology to the cloners to use at like say $10 per chip. OzX makes more money for less work and all they need to do is cash the checks from the clone makers who would now be "licensed manufacturers and distributors"
Just my 2 cents, you're not going to stop the bootleggers and even if you did, from an Economic standpoint it's not a positive thing if you did.
Post by: cap269 on April 21, 2004, 02:07:00 PM
| QUOTE (mike96sc2 @ Apr 21 2004, 05:51 PM) |
| 1) Why not work with the cloners ... Better yet OzX could just license the technology to the cloners to use at like say $10 per chip. OzX makes more money for less work and all they need to do is cash the checks from the clone makers who would now be "licensed manufacturers and distributors" 2) I saw Xenium Clones going for like $35, Xeniums are what? like $60? so for 1/2 the price they're making the same product basically as in they both serve the same purpose. Now is OzX making $25+ on each Xenium then? |
I divided the quote of your post into two parts.
Part 1: That might be okay if the cloners could guarantee quality control for the product they make. However, it has been widely recognized and accepted that the manufacture of the clones is less than par with the genuine. This could be a big problem. Let's say there are two factories. OzX uses "factory A" and a cloner uses "factory B" -- The chips from "factory B" are deplorable due to shoddy manufacturing (costs less), whereas the chips from "factory A" are top grade. Ultimately it is the consumer that is the judge. Customers don't know (and don't even care) what factory their chip was made it. All they know is that it says "Xenium" on it. All the customers that get shoddy chips made in "factory B" are going to blame OzX when their chip goes bad, when it wasn't made in OzX's factory. This is going to do damage to OzX, because these "factory B" would seemingly carry OzX's endorsement. OzX is right to keep close watch on who makes their chips and how well they're made.
Part 2: The cloners don't have to recoup research and development costs. There are many design-to-market costs that have gone into the Xenium. OzX deserves every penny they ask for in selling the chips. This money will only go to serve the scene in the future with more development and better toys for you and me. The cloners are essentially robbing OzX of the recovery of the money they have ALREADY SPENT getting the Xenium to market, not to mention the ongoing costs of supporting customers who unknowingly bought the clones and are now requesting technical support and remedies.
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 21, 2004, 02:11:00 PM
Post by: dethbunny on April 21, 2004, 03:38:00 PM
That, or perhaps slightly different trace lengths allow a sort of electrical timing check to see if the PCB is the original design or the clone design.
Post by: HSDEMONZ on April 21, 2004, 06:07:00 PM
magic
Post by: Artifex on April 21, 2004, 07:43:00 PM
| QUOTE (HSDEMONZ @ Apr 22 2004, 03:07 AM) |
| magic |
Yes... see.... we're actually a team of voodoo witch doctors...
That's the REAL reason behind the kittens.
--Arti
Post by: marksu on April 21, 2004, 08:39:00 PM
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 22, 2004, 01:23:00 AM
| QUOTE (dethbunny @ Apr 21 2004, 06:38 PM) |
| I'm still mystified as to how the ACT can identify a clone versus a real Xenium. If they all use the same components, connected in electrically equivalent fashion, then they can't very well detect the difference. There's been commentary on the different flash ROMs used, but it's also been determined that the genuine Xeniums don't all use the same chip, and recent clones have used the identical flash to recently-manufactured Xeniums. The one thing that could be different (and detectable) is the microprocessor, but isn't it the same on all Xeniums seen so far, both real and clone? That, or perhaps slightly different trace lengths allow a sort of electrical timing check to see if the PCB is the original design or the clone design. |
obviously they must be confident in their method.....
I like magic... but all magic is faked so then is ACT just a cheap trick?
Post by: marksu on April 22, 2004, 02:06:00 AM
| QUOTE (EmperorPsiblade @ Apr 22 2004, 10:23 AM) |
| obviously they must be confident in their method..... I like magic... but all magic is faked so then is ACT just a cheap trick? |
Some magic tricks are far from cheap though!
Post by: Lex Luthor on April 22, 2004, 02:18:00 AM
Filling your heads with BS, personally we dont sell many but of the thousands i know have gone out there has been NO problem with the clones. Do you want me to prove this & finally end this discussion? Cloning may not be right, but then again nor is copyright infringement & theft from Ms etc. it is a fact of life. Ozxodus try to play the big fish but they have a handful of members on their site & no commercial ability. All they can do is try to demean the clone with lies & propoganda. Sure, if you want to be safe buy the original, if you want to save money then get a clone. IT IS THE SAME THING.
Post by: marksu on April 22, 2004, 03:09:00 AM
| QUOTE (Lex Luthor @ Apr 22 2004, 11:18 AM) |
| A.C.T = Are Crapping Themselves Filling your heads with BS, personally we dont sell many but of the thousands i know have gone out there has been NO problem with the clones. Do you want me to prove this & finally end this discussion? Cloning may not be right, but then again nor is copyright infringement & theft from Ms etc. it is a fact of life. Ozxodus try to play the big fish but they have a handful of members on their site & no commercial ability. All they can do is try to demean the clone with lies & propoganda. Sure, if you want to be safe buy the original, if you want to save money then get a clone. IT IS THE SAME THING. |
ye, what ever Lex Luthor.
No clone crap here!
Only ACT discussion.
Post by: xpro on April 22, 2004, 03:35:00 AM
LOL
WHO ARE YOU KIDDING..... I had 5 of those crappy clones and GUESS WHAT........... YA thats right NONE of them WORK!!!! EXPLAIN THAT
They work for a day or two and then bam no more life left in them.
Whether its ACT that is killing those chips or just very bad reproduction of them .. well I cant answer that . All I can say is that my ORIGINAL chips I have installed for friends work 100%
Post by: HSDEMONZ on April 22, 2004, 04:07:00 AM
2/3rds of the clones I had when we exposed the clones failed. I'm not some ignorant noob installer who has touched only one xbox. I've used just about every modchip we list in our gen 1-4th gen listings.. tsop.. and exploits. Bad clones are bad clones period. Ignore the polictics by Ozx.. that's okay.. just look at the clone product. High Falure rate.. software now designed to "fuck" them up, most over-prices and mis-represented, furthermore.. visual inspection of the clones show shoddy workmanship.
Regardless.. this isn't a pro clone forum.. nor a pro-clone thread. Keep that bs off the forum or leave.
Stay on TOPIC.. ACT.
Mods will start suspending accounts for abuse.. and for pro-clone proganda. Sell your shit elsewhere.
Post by: marksu on April 22, 2004, 07:19:00 AM
RULE:
No Posts/spam/ads/propoganda For Clone/fakes
edit: READ THE RULES ON ABOVE LINK!
DISCUSSION DIRECTED ON "ACT" ONLY!
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 22, 2004, 10:24:00 AM
Post by: cap269 on April 22, 2004, 11:29:00 AM
| QUOTE (psykes @ Apr 22 2004, 01:55 PM) |
| But killing peoples chips, and make THAT the prime feature of the new OS.... |
They aren't killing the chips. Poor workmanship is. ACT doesn't kill the chip, it only removes the OS. The chip itself, if it hasn't died from being poor quality, is still usable. It just needs a new OS flashed to it. Nobody's stopping anyone from making a replacement OS for the cloned chips. Oh wait, they don't know how? Bummer.
Also, nobody has said that the ACT is the "prime" feature ... a lot of us have been waiting for OS 2.0 for many other reasons...
Post by: marksu on April 22, 2004, 11:44:00 AM
To prevent cracking ACT, the best solution propably is removing both main and restore OS.
Not sure though what then. Would it mean xbox works just like it would not have any mod inside?
Therefore allways booting to the xbox original bios?
OR
Would if possibly frag at boot?
We will know it first after new OS comes out. Still new OS might have some kind of delay on ACT, making it more diffucult for cloners to crack (trial and error) for next clone version.
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 22, 2004, 12:47:00 PM
| QUOTE (marksu @ Apr 22 2004, 10:19 AM) |
| FORUM RULES HAVE NOT CHANGED IN 3 HOURS! RULE: No Posts/spam/ads/propoganda For Clone/fakes edit: READ THE RULES ON ABOVE LINK! DISCUSSION DIRECTED ON "ACT" ONLY! |
when did you become an mod marksu?
jkthe cloner fags would more likely edit the XOS as a bin file.... rather than capture the code from the Xenium through evesdropping on the data lines....
but that depends on the cloner's ablitiy to crack the encryption on the XOS bin file.... hmmmm but that leaked release still worries me.... what if they modify that unencrypted XOS bin..... that would be badddddd....
Marksu is right. Marksu tiene razon... the ACT is not the major feature in the XOS 2... else the cloners would be happy with XOS 1.1 on their low quality clones.... there must be a motivation to upgrade...
At least i hope i'm right....
EDIT: Marksu spelled as "Marsu"
Post by: marksu on April 22, 2004, 01:02:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| when did you become an mod marksu? |
You are funnier than you even realise! One thing is I started this thread and set the title to define the discussion content of the thread.
Other thing person don't have to be mod the clarify the rules on this forum.
Don't want this thread be closed cause some blind people don't read the rules.
It would be nice to integrate a speach fag for blind ppl on this forum.
Well anyway back to orig. discusion.
If they get to crack the bin OS file, how can it be flashed to the chip when ACT have removed main and restore OS from the chip? The OS is needed for the flash.
EDIT: Sure it can be flashed at the factory to new version of clones but not old ones.
After a while even those cracked clones are disabled by a new version of ACT.
YEEEEEEEE!
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 22, 2004, 01:07:00 PM
1. they hack the bin file, remove act
2. flash the hacked 2.0 to a clone running 1.1 with NO act (the act is previous XOSes is jsut a marketing ploy)
3. run 2.0 with no chip failing except from the crappy soldering and crappy hardware in the crappy clones....
In my not so humble opinion, revealing the security flaws in the XOS will help OZX make a more secure XOS 2.0
I like feeding the trolls.....
Post by: marksu on April 22, 2004, 01:17:00 PM
ZZZZzzzZZZZzzzzzzz
Post by: HSDEMONZ on April 22, 2004, 02:42:00 PM
I think I got him on the edge of the cliff.. just gotta push a bit harder..
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 22, 2004, 03:02:00 PM
you pushed too hard....
Post by: Flagg3 on April 22, 2004, 07:01:00 PM
| QUOTE (oz_paulb @ Apr 19 2004, 11:19 PM) |
| Here's my two cents on the subject... I've been an embedded developer for over 20 years. I've had several occasions to try to 'protect' my software from cloning/etc, and have considered 'self destruct' mechanisms similar to what OzXodus seems to be doing. I've always decided that this is a bad idea. |
I agree 100%.
I've always been a big supporter of OzXodus, but I would be EXTREMELY disappointed if there were actual 'self destruct' code in the XOS.
Whenever you put something like that into your code, you ALWAYS run the risk of hurting legitimate customers. The fact that all software - XOS included - sometimes requires pathing and bug fixing is proof enough that no one ever writes code perfectly enough to be 100% sure it will function as intended. Self destruct code is simply too dangerous to risk putting into your software, ever.
Having said that, I see nothing wrong with OzXodus writing code that attempts to 'lock out' the fakes. (These chips are FAKES, not CLONES. As a matter of fact if these exact same chips were marked and sold specifically as Xenium clones then I would support them completely. There's nothing wrong with a consumer choosing to buy a clone if he knows what he's getting and the risks associated with buying a clone. People do it every day with ink jet cartridges, cubic zirconia and hundreds of other products. But these fakes are designed to fool the consumer so that they can be sold at a higher price, not to benefit them with a lower cost alternative.)
As it stands I'm getting really tired of these announcements from OzXodus. They promised an amazing 2.0 release, they should just deliver it already and let it speak for itself.
Flagg
Post by: cap269 on April 22, 2004, 07:06:00 PM
This thread was created to discuss the implementation of OzXodus' Anti-Clone Technology, and the redirections in this thread were made to ensure that this particular topic is not departed from; and not turned into yet another venue to discuss the employment, acquisition, support, ethics, or morality of clones, which would cause the hammer to fall and the topic closed.
Post by: marksu on April 22, 2004, 08:09:00 PM
| QUOTE (cap269 @ Apr 23 2004, 04:06 AM) |
| Ummm, I don't think it is against the rules merely to say "clone" ... I've done it repeatedly during my ON TOPIC posts in this thread. What IS against the rules, the way I understand them, is to use the forums at X-S to PROMOTE the clones. Yes, they are a part of the Xbox-Scene, a bad part, the same way that CANCER is a part of human life, a bad part. This thread was created to discuss the implementation of OzXodus' Anti-Clone Technology, and the redirections in this thread were made to ensure that this particular topic is not departed from; and not turned into yet another venue to discuss the employment, acquisition, support, ethics, or morality of clones, which would cause the hammer to fall and the topic closed. |
cap269 you just read my mind!
You could not have sead it better!
Post by: marksu on April 22, 2004, 08:33:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| I hope he never takes up your offer. He's got an itchy trigger finger when it comes to shutting people up -- particularly with regards to clone talk. |
You should hope I dont take that offer cause your don't respect the RULES forum admins have set up!
Post by: Ultima111 on April 22, 2004, 09:08:00 PM
| QUOTE (HSDEMONZ @ Apr 22 2004, 04:42 PM) |
| I keep pushing MARKSU to be a mod.. I think I got him on the edge of the cliff.. just gotta push a bit harder.. |
WTF...how the hell...?!?!?!?!?!?!?
NOOOO!!!!
What has he given to the scene besides a couple of help posts...
That sure is a sucky name to be given.."Moderator" maybe I should make 200 posts, helping some people out and then maybe I will get modded..honestly you make it seem as though he has coded the whole Xenium O.S. and written a in-depth FAQ on the Xenium modchip...
Anyways...
code goes WRONG! I know my c++ proggys get wanky all the time...
can I ask a question...
HOW THE HELL DOES THIS BENEFIT XENIUM OWNERS?!?!?!
If they are going to make "announcements about great features, atleast make comments that will benefit ppl with real Xenium's..
Why erase O.S.'s from chips? To protect their their business? GOOD FOR THEM! If this is what they choose to put in their chips I stand by em' completely, but if it erases my o.s., I will still stand by em' after I get my new chip ..
Let' wait and see what they do...
Post by: marksu on April 22, 2004, 11:51:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| WTF...how the hell...?!?!?!?!?!?!? NOOOO!!!! What has he given to the scene besides a couple of help posts... That sure is a sucky name to be given.."Moderator" maybe I should make 200 posts, helping some people out and then maybe I will get modded..honestly you make it seem as though he has coded the whole Xenium O.S. and written a in-depth FAQ on the Xenium modchip... |
You are hularious, you 8 post man!
A bit jelous are you?
Edit: It will be interesting to see what Ozxodus makes the ACT actually to do?
Still it might take a while even after the OS update is released cause possible ACT kicks in first after a while it is flashed.
Post by: HSDEMONZ on April 23, 2004, 02:39:00 AM
| QUOTE (Ultima111 @ Apr 23 2004, 01:08 AM) |
| WTF...how the hell...?!?!?!?!?!?!? NOOOO!!!! What has he given to the scene besides a couple of help posts... That sure is a sucky name to be given.."Moderator" maybe I should make 200 posts, helping some people out and then maybe I will get modded..honestly you make it seem as though he has coded the whole Xenium O.S. and written a in-depth FAQ on the Xenium modchip... |
Being a mod isn't about how many posts you made.. nor is it an award for helping out. It's about administration.. and maintain forum integrity. He clearly wants to see this forum stay on track.. and see posts stay on topic. Both are admirable qualities in a moderator. He also hasn't gone out of his way to suck up.. or to make friends.. which gives me the impression that if he'd accept the position.. he'd actually do the job we'd need him to do.. as opposed to trying to win some popularity contest.
The Offer will remain open to him. There was no time limit specified..
Back to the topic at hand..
Post by: HSDEMONZ on April 23, 2004, 02:52:00 AM
| QUOTE (shmokes @ Apr 22 2004, 10:22 PM) |
| It deserves continual discussion because it is a continual problem that people would appreciate being made aware of when they visit these forums as they are looking to buy their first chip and get into the scene. If clones are shitty they will be exposed as such through regular discourse. You may find this hard to believe, but closing your eyes doesn't make something disappear. |
No.. it doesn't.
Clones have been discussed enough. Anyone interested can search for past topics in the Xenium and Xecuter forums here on XS, or they can review official site policy.. as in the pinned topics. People wishing to discuss it further are free to take the discussion elsewhere.. or to PM amongst themselves.
This forum is for OzXodus Chips. Xenium Clones.. are NOT OzXodus Chips.. and are therefore off-topic.
It's nothing I haven't said before... repreatedly.
As for hiding our heads in the sand.. that isn't what this is about. It's simply a site policy. People can follow it or leave. This isn't a democracy. (Some people have the misguided notion this is a US site.. and that "free speech" must rule. Neither is the case)
Clones are but one of many topics we don't allow in depth discussion on. Clones don't need to be coninually discussed to be shown they are bad.. flawed.. and can cause damage to hardware. (I don't need to be hit by a car 10 times to know that getting hit by one will hurt.. and likley kill me.) The Evidence is already posted. Another 100 threads won't get the point across any better.
Post by: fujitech on April 23, 2004, 04:36:00 AM
"FAKES" is the correct word!
As for ACT if u dont like something dont use it!
It's as simple as that!
If you own an original Xenium then you have nothing to worry about!
PS Keeping the forums clean from now on is a good idea!
Forums are for HELPING people with solutions to their problems!
Any unnecessary kind of language will not be tolerated!
KEEP THE FORUMS CLEAN
Post by: marksu on April 23, 2004, 06:42:00 AM
I started this thread to contain ACT and you bring global clone crap on the thread.
GET YOUR OWN DAME THREÁD AND SEE HOW LONG IT LASTS (BEFORE GETTING CLOSED).
Mine has 159 replies and 3382 views!
(largest amount of replies than any other threads on this forum)
ACTUALLY, GET YOUR OWN FUCKING FORUM shmokes!
Post by: HSDEMONZ on April 23, 2004, 06:59:00 AM
It's pretty clear this continues to go off topic.. from pro-clone propoganda.. site policy.. and freedmo of speech issues.
ACT is and will continue to have an affect on those with CLONE/FAKE chips.
Other threads that get turned into discussion for allowing clone talk.. will be closed.. and members removed.
XS POLICY.. so get over it already.