Post by: Xbox-Scene on January 05, 2008, 02:32:00 PM
New Line Follows Warner Bros. and Goes Blu Posted by XanTium | January 5 15:56 EST | News Category: Xbox360 |
| From blu-ray.com: Quote
Full Story: blu-ray.com |
Post by: DeMoN_DARREN on January 05, 2008, 03:05:00 PM
Post by: steveju on January 05, 2008, 03:10:00 PM
HD-DVD is so inferior
Post by: mt247 on January 05, 2008, 02:37:00 PM
I'm sorry for that, as i was preferring hd-dvd as my personal choise. Luckily i have not purchased a player right now - and my choise will be blue-ray now. it will be intereseting how ms will react on this news.....
QUOTE(steveju @ Jan 5 2008, 11:10 PM) 
"lack of region coding"
HD-DVD is so inferior
yeas - hd-dvd is better - so was betamax
Post by: steveju on January 05, 2008, 02:41:00 PM
QUOTE(mt247 @ Jan 5 2008, 10:13 PM)
yeas - hd-dvd is better - so was betamax
I meant that they make "lack of region coding" sound like a bad thing, like a missing feature or something. I bet that none of the consumers would know if it was a good or a bad thing if someone promoted Blu-Ray to them and said HD-DVD lacks region coding.Post by: Norco on January 05, 2008, 03:18:00 PM
Post by: mace1337 on January 05, 2008, 02:45:00 PM
Somebody has make a Bluray player for 360 now.
QUOTE(steveju @ Jan 6 2008, 12:17 AM)
I meant that they make "lack of region coding" sound like a bad thing, like a missing feature or something. I bet that none of the consumers would know if it was a good or a bad thing if someone promoted Blu-Ray to them and said HD-DVD lacks region coding.
Yeah, I guess average Joe doesn't know region coding is a bad thing for him.
Average Joe is such an idiot.
Post by: 0794 on January 05, 2008, 03:23:00 PM
all this news is most frustrating to those that have already invested in the HD DVD technology, not that those players and movies won't continue to work and look beautiful, but the media choices may continue to become fewer and fewer if studios keep switching...
also, i find it most interesting that most who bash or fanboy either format (esp on these forums) still don't own either format yet...
Post by: disrockerdude on January 05, 2008, 02:56:00 PM
it was a good thing i didnt buy an hddvd player or a bluray player. lol i'll stick with my region free dvd player for now.
Post by: FCTE on January 05, 2008, 03:12:00 PM
QUOTE(mt247 @ Jan 5 2008, 04:13 PM)
it will be intereseting how ms will react on this news.....
It won't matter to them, Microsoft was nowhere near invested in it like Sony is to Blu-ray.
Post by: tummybanana on January 05, 2008, 03:53:00 PM
ill stick to hd dvd and sd
Post by: Artanis on January 05, 2008, 03:53:00 PM
Is sony buying all the bluray movies up?
Post by: colt45joe on January 05, 2008, 04:00:00 PM
Post by: HotKnife420 on January 05, 2008, 03:30:00 PM
QUOTE(colt45joe @ Jan 6 2008, 12:00 AM)
soo, this means lord of the rings on blu-ray?
More than likely, as New Line put it out, and I believe Warner owns New Line anyway (IIRC).
The main thing that sucks about all this is that my PS3 is foceably on my SDTV, as my HD is VGA-only (Damn Sony trying to push more TVs). I tried building my own adapter, but then found my monitor doesn't support SoG, so I'm back to square one, I suppose.... LotR on HD would kick ass, tho.
Post by: joemm210 on January 05, 2008, 03:42:00 PM
QUOTE(Artanis @ Jan 5 2008, 11:53 PM)
I dont understand how HDDVD players outsell bluray, yet bluray movies outsell HDDVD movies... yet the attach rate for movies to player is higher for HDDVD?
Is sony buying all the bluray movies up?
haha, HDDVD players are outselling blu-ray players not including the ps3 as a blu-ray player so since there must be 3mill ps3s or more in the US now but only 2/5 of ps3 owners buy blu-ray movies thats still like 3 times as many hd dvd players out there but is also the reason why blu-ray attach rate is low.
Post by: luther349 on January 05, 2008, 04:36:00 PM
Post by: Madskilz182 on January 05, 2008, 04:54:00 PM
Post by: Mr Invader on January 05, 2008, 04:26:00 PM
QUOTE(Norco @ Jan 5 2008, 04:18 PM)
Are you kidding me, this isn't news, New Line has been basically BluRay exclusive for awhile now, they just didn't officially say anything. They released this press release simply to try to push their momentum harder, and uninformed consumers will think they have been doing the same thing as Warner Bros. when they haven't.
Agree. I guess this makes it offical though.
Post by: XanTium on January 05, 2008, 04:46:00 PM
QUOTE(Artanis @ Jan 5 2008, 11:53 PM)
I dont understand how HDDVD players outsell bluray, yet bluray movies outsell HDDVD movies... yet the attach rate for movies to player is higher for HDDVD?
Is sony buying all the bluray movies up?
Toshiba doesn't count the PS3 consoles sold when counting the blu-ray players.
With the PS3 there are way more blu-ray players than HD DVD players (incl. Xbox360 addon)
Post by: hecz on January 05, 2008, 04:55:00 PM
Im happy with my dvdplayer
Post by: turk3y on January 05, 2008, 05:40:00 PM
QUOTE(luther349 @ Jan 5 2008, 11:36 PM) 
regen coding lol.
pmsl
seriously this whole move to blu ray is more likly to be down to the fact it has not been beaten by slysoft yet, I am sure if the public as a whole new that the formats used the same codecs and therefore could be argued to look identical (i doubt most care for audio, the 5,1 setup to dvd player ratio is probably under 5) and then found out that blu ray was region coded and hd-dvd wasnt would say, ohh hd-dvd please.
I think there are some big back handers doing the rounds, as blu ray is not a finnished specification right now so there is a very real posability that if you pick up a player now it wont work with the releases less than a month down the line, some of the new protected titles already take over a minuite to boot, and menus that are just lethargic. The public I am sure dont "want" this, they are not confused over the formats, they may not understand the difference but they dont see why they should upgrade, dvds look fine (not great but fine) on hdtvs, which are only really brought as they happen to be flat (thin) and look nice as well as being larger (screen size)than crts.
For a next gen format it is awful compared to dvd, sure dvd is only sd but the players are lightning quick to boot, the disks jump to life. It may not have always been like that but then people where used to rewinding their tape before playing it, these are films on a tiny disk with no moving parts, its like space age or something. These new films are still just films on a disk, how different cant they be? why are they so much slower to play? (i know why but the mass market wont) most non technical people i know thinks dvd means video on a disk (no matter what it is, vcd or bonus clips on their cd singles) and would swear blind the v in dvd was for video. The new formats need to really improve to get proper market penetration, as we as a whole expect more from new technology not less (in this instace waiting for stuff to start)
Perhaps toshiba should run some adverts on tv, "in this generation there are no boundaries"
and in the nicest possible way if they are European adverts have "2 for the price of 1* at Amazon.com, brought to you by the $ *not including postage" at the end.
then we will see what the (well European) market wants
Post by: PirateElf on January 05, 2008, 05:48:00 PM
Beta-max
UMD
Mini-discs
Super Audio Cd
And the list goes on I just can only remember those few. Point being is Sony is notorious for making crappy products. They always have been. People want to point and laugh at the microsoft RROD (Red Ring of Death for you little people) but lets get serious here folks who had a playstation 2 (Gen 1 -3) that for no apparent reason whatsoever just stopped working. MILLIONS upon MILLIONS. Sony admitted to the problem and it was fixed 4 generations later BUT whereas microsoft just increased the warranty Sony basically told you to jog on and deal with it.
I am not saying I am a fanboy for one thing or another but I do tend to know when I see superior products and that's usually ANYTHING that is not sony. And it not just their game systems either but look at their record of other stuff. Sony speakers blow, Sony Tv's are a joke, Sony headphones are awesome for a period of no more than 30 days, (Note personal Experience coming:) Playstation 1 breaks and Sony fails to honor warranty, Sony fails to honor almost all of its warranties unless you pay them. Oh, and lets not forget the travesty that is/was the sony walkmans. Dear god! You remember those things right? You just bought that brand new Metallica Black album and you were so excited, only to have that damned thing eat your tape after only a few plays. The discmans were even worse. Twice as expensive as any other cheap cd player on the market and made with worse parts that would not even play flawless cds sometimes.
Bottom line is in the long run Sony has become synonymous with cheap crappy products that break way faster than they should. They are known to make less than superior toys. Although I must admit that the mini-discs were innovative and a really good idea, just got destroyed due to the ipod/digital music players era. The only thing sony has successfully accomplished was a gaming system. And personally I really think that was a fluke. They happened to be in the right place at the right time. Sony had no competition. When PS1 hit the market they were up against the aged SNES, and the ridiculous hard to program for Saturn by sega and people were losing confidence in sega after the BS that was the 32X / Sega CD addons (Both of which were cool, but not what they promised to be). Sure Nintendo finally release the N64 to our shelves two years after the PS1 already had a foothold in a stagnate market. It simply couldn't complete with the FMV and bigger gaming experience that was the PS1. The PS2 was the same thing really. PS2 was fighting against the aging N64 (Cause let's face it, even though it was a good system most of the games showed their age and were not "Next-Gen" and it was Cartridge based) and the Exalted Dreamcast (The best gaming system in recent memory had it not been for the fact it simply had no third party support, consumer confidence had dropped significantly, and couldn't compete financially with the Juggernaut that is Sony) So since the inception of the Playstation idea sony has always banked on one idea: We have no competition.
The current gaming war is really not even a war. It's a fanboy marathon, and for good reason. This time around Sony really has competition. They have the powerhouse that is Microsoft. With their money and resources they can't be bullied out of the scene like poor Sega, and for the first time since the SNES Nintendo has really done something extraordinary. This time around they really have to show what they are made of, and at this time Sony has nothing going for it except for being the cheapest Blu-ray player on the market. The games at this point are a joke. (Just like almost all 1st gen sony games that have come out over the years.)
With these new companies coming over to Blu-ray no doubt sony is excited, but it just saddens me that companies are choosing a company with a track record of making bad products that just get replaced by better products. Some people might flame me for being a fanboy against sony, but everything I have just told you has come directly from news sources, wikipedia (Not reliable as a source I know but it works), and personal experiences with Sony products. So while I think that this format war is not over just yet, it seems that HD-DVD is indeed losing the battle. Which should bother you, because it could set a trend for further horrible products from Sony.
Post by: slowass on January 05, 2008, 06:08:00 PM
And dont get me started on Blu-Ray stand-alone players. Do they really think the average Joe are willing to spend money on another version of there movie-player every year? It might end up like the Wii, buy it and forget it cause its useless.
Interesting indeed.
Post by: ausmods on January 05, 2008, 06:54:00 PM
Post by: darkworldprince on January 05, 2008, 06:59:00 PM
This format war is not gaming news! It's just a completely pointless battle between two utterly useless camps which have next to no difference between one another!! I have a feeling blu-ray will end up being slightly more popular somehow, but that's still not bad news for the losing end, which will end up with piles of reduced priced movies.
I can't bloody stand seeing every second news story on kotaku or joystiq being about a format that is only slightly connected to gaming. We didn't hear all the crap about "guess who's stopped supporting vhs and is now supporting dvd which is awesome because ps2 has that" last gen did we?
I just wish one format would win soon, so we don't have to care anymore.
Post by: ausmods on January 05, 2008, 07:22:00 PM
QUOTE
I'm seriously fucking sick of this.
This format war is not gaming news! It's just a completely pointless battle between two utterly useless camps which have next to no difference between one another!! I have a feeling blu-ray will end up being slightly more popular somehow, but that's still not bad news for the losing end, which will end up with piles of reduced priced movies.
This format war is not gaming news! It's just a completely pointless battle between two utterly useless camps which have next to no difference between one another!! I have a feeling blu-ray will end up being slightly more popular somehow, but that's still not bad news for the losing end, which will end up with piles of reduced priced movies.
Dude I agree 100% with you...
Post by: warmaster_670 on January 05, 2008, 07:25:00 PM
QUOTE(ausmods @ Jan 5 2008, 09:22 PM)
Dude I agree 100% with you...
its related to both the PS3 and the xbox 360, so it would make sense for it to be mentioned.
not that i wouldnt prefer game news, but its not completely unrelated.
Post by: DeMoN_DARREN on January 05, 2008, 07:37:00 PM
Post by: ErikREspo on January 05, 2008, 07:48:00 PM
Meanwhile you enjoy your state of the art T1... I'll take my cable modem.
for those of you who don't understand the T1 comment. Many companies out there still use T1s despite thier slow speeds when better technologies are there.
Post by: GuntherMP5 on January 05, 2008, 08:18:00 PM
I personally like BlueRay better, but then again my HD DVD is going through my 360 that doesn't have an HDMI port, so its going through the VGA on my TV. Even if it did I dont know if I would use it as I dont think the 360 pumps audio through the HDMI and my receiver's digital audio ports are all used up.
Most of the Movies I want are on BlueRay although I do have a few HD-DVD. 5th Element only came out on BlueRay so I was glad when I got my PS3. Maybe they will release STARSHIP TROOPERS on Blueray now, it's already released by Buenovista on BlueRay , but not in the states!
Well if MS still wanted to pursue HDDVD they could try to push it for archiving of data, but it might be too late for that as well. I have never seen an HDDVD-R but I have seen blank BlueRay's ( even in TARGET and thats scary)
For those of us that purchased an XBOX HD-DVD player, it still has uses. If you want to watch movies on your PC you can use the that way, It still can be used to RIP HD-DVD's so you can still watch them on your HTPC, and they will be dropping the price of all that old HDDVD stock out there when they have to convert those movies to BlueRay, so we will be able to pick up some movies on the cheap.
Just trying to look at the bright side, but lets all just be thankful that it's over, it went on for way too long!
Now the companies have to push out some good movie and TV series!!
Post by: trey85stang on January 05, 2008, 10:01:00 PM
Post by: m00nstone on January 05, 2008, 10:06:00 PM
1) I was checking out Blu ray players on demo at my local Best Buy. I had a short nap waiting for menus and chapters to load.
2) People I know that bought DVD players in the early days have already forgotten the day they threw them out due to problems (namely issues reading newer movies)
3) never mind whether blu ray will beat hd-dvd. I'm not convinced either will be the next DVD.
Post by: HotKnife420 on January 05, 2008, 10:03:00 PM
QUOTE(m00nstone @ Jan 6 2008, 06:06 AM)
It doesn't pay to be an early adopter. Even worse is performance of early gen players. Evidence:
1) I was checking out Blu ray players on demo at my local Best Buy. I had a short nap waiting for menus and chapters to load.
2) People I know that bought DVD players in the early days have already forgotten the day they threw them out due to problems (namely issues reading newer movies)
3) never mind whether blu ray will beat hd-dvd. I'm not convinced either will be the next DVD.
Well, with the number of studios making BluRay exclusives now, and the increasing installed base of PS3, it *may* be a possibility. If the PS3 reaches anywhere *near* the PS2's installed base (down to $400 now, another price drop prolly by thanksgiving, and so on), then it could stand a chance. Apparently we've been taking it's presence for granted...
Post by: cabose369 on January 05, 2008, 10:06:00 PM
QUOTE(ErikREspo @ Jan 5 2008, 09:48 PM)
You people that are "sticking with HD-DVD" are not thinking and evidently aren't thinking ahead. You are the same people who think 4.7Gb DVDs are good enough and we don't need more space on the dvd cause the 8Gb dvds are too expensive. The only reason is it "more Expensive" is because you choose not to adopt it.
I strongly disagree with that statement. Why spend $60 for 25 DVD+DL when I can buy 100 DVD's for $20? I can split my data, hell split whole movies and put them on 2 discs and still come to 1/100th of the cost of 1 DVD+DL disc. No one wants to spend more than they need to. DL discs aren't more expensive because consumers don't choose to adopt it... It's called consumers who are smart with their money, not consumers who want to waste their money like they have endless pockets of money. DL has been out for what, 3 maybe 4 years, maybe longer. Still the average consumer doesn't want it cause its not of benefit to them. By your same reasoning then everyone should still be using CD's for their DATA LOL! And according to your argument no one should have a High-Def TV cause they are more expensive than a Tube TV LOL!! Nice argument there....
Anyway I have to ring in on this whole thing. Need we recall Sony's poor history of products. For YEARS Betamax was farrr ahead of VHS and lone and behold VHS surpassed it and now where do you see Betamax? Sony is up to their dirty tricks again to try to persuade the general public. The post made by PirateElf was probably one of the most thought out, intelligent posts i've seen in all these topics over the last few days. Not everyone that bought a PS3 is going to use it as a Blu-Ray player. So you can't include that in the statistics of sales. Sony thinks they can buy out all the companies and don't get me wrong Toshiba has done the same.
Whoever made the comment that the average consumer doesn't understand the differences between the HD DVD and Blu-Ray player is 100% correct. They offer the EXACT same image quality. HD DVD is region free, an amazing feature, they are a million times faster then the blu-ray player, they don't suffer from poorly written firmware/software. Really NO DVD needs all the space that Blu-Ray offers. Betamax offered more storage than VHS but ended up losing. VHS was cheaper and the average consumer did not need Betamax.
It may seem like Toshiba is about to be knocked out but don't count them out. They may battle back.
Also consider the fact that if HD DVD does go down then Sony will jack the prices of EVERYTHING Blu-Ray to make up for the losses they took on the PS3 and their players. Then the consumer will sadly be at the mercy of the evil empire called Sony. And you DON'T want to be at the mercy of Sony. As much as everyone knocks M$ i would rather be at the mercy of M$ then Sony. Fact is Sony overcharges EVERYONE of their products. From TV's to Camera's to Computers everything is too expensive. When there is no competition up goes the price. Why.. cause they can and cause Sony DESPERATELY needs the money. If the PS3 fails bye bye Sony. If Blu-Ray fails bye bye Sony. Sony took such huge losses in 2006/2007 that it hurt them really badly. Their products are constantly getting surpassed by much better products at a much better price: ex. Samsung TV's, Canon Cameras, and any computer company is better than Sony except Acer. M$ played it smart by NOT including an HD DVD drive in their console and I don't think they ever planned on it either. If Blu-Ray flops whats gonna happen to the PS3? Is Sony gonna release their games in normal DVD? LOL! Sony will charge even MORE for games cause it will cost even more to produce for Blu-Ray (contrary to what Sony leads the consumer to believe it does cost them more to produce blu-ray discs than an HD DVD or normal DVD disc.). Xbox 360 is safe and then in their next console if they want they can stick in an HD DVD drive. Could you imagine if the PS1 ran on Mini Discs or UMD's? Would that have affected the war at the time? Hardly.
I am not a fan boy for either side because frankly I don't care. I don't have an HDTV and I got my normal DVD player and it works wonders on an SDTV. I just hate to see everyone get so gung-ho over something that is just a good punch to HD DVD's face. People who say "the war is over" are very naive.
Post by: Elemino on January 05, 2008, 10:30:00 PM
QUOTE(DeMoN_DARREN @ Jan 5 2008, 08:37 PM)
Well if Blu-Ray becomes the standard.... what are MS gonna do for the next gen console? Go Blu-Ray?! Got no problem with the blu, but how will this work with current Sony/MS relations?
BTW... RIP HD DVD. I seriously thought it was the way to go... but as all good men do in the interest of the people... I conceed. HD DVD is by far the best of the two... the only 1 up Bluray initially had was capacity.
QUOTE(hecz @ Jan 5 2008, 06:31 PM)
Im happy with my dvdplayer Post by: m00nstone on January 05, 2008, 11:07:00 PM
QUOTE(HotKnife420 @ Jan 6 2008, 06:39 AM)
Well, with the number of studios making BluRay exclusives now, and the increasing installed base of PS3, it *may* be a possibility. If the PS3 reaches anywhere *near* the PS2's installed base (down to $400 now, another price drop prolly by thanksgiving, and so on), then it could stand a chance. Apparently we've been taking it's presence for granted...
Ok, you touched a sore spot here. Why would anyone want their game console's optical drive to double as a video player. Every optical drive has a limited lifespan based on usage. Why would I want to waste that on movie watching?
And like most people, I watch alot of movies... but I want my video game system to last.
Don't even get me started on this crap where people want them to bundle hd-dvd in their 360s. People have no brains.
Post by: trey85stang on January 05, 2008, 10:56:00 PM
QUOTE(m00nstone @ Jan 6 2008, 07:07 AM)
Ok, you touched a sore spot here. Why would anyone want their game console's optical drive to double as a video player. Every optical drive has a limited lifespan based on usage. Why would I want to waste that on movie watching?
And like most people, I watch alot of movies... but I want my video game system to last.
Don't even get me started on this crap where people want them to bundle hd-dvd in their 360s. People have no brains.
Playing a video game is more taxing on an optical drive then watching a movie.
Post by: Devedander on January 06, 2008, 12:22:00 AM
How many of you own a digital camera?
How many of you think the megapixel rating is the number 1 thing to consider in getting good pictures out of a camera?
How many of you paid more for a camera becuase the sales person said "for only $XX you can have almost twice as many megapixels which is better resolution and therefore better pictures"?
Here's something to consider... more pixels on a sensor can be very detrimental for picture quality.
The explanations are complex, but basically more pixels on a sensor of the same size means that each pixel gets less light. Since pictures are recordings of light, less of it can result in lower quality results and more image noise.
In short the same camera which now has more MP is quite possibly going to give you WORSE quality pictures.
Now... think about that and think about people in a store listening to a salesman tell them how BR has more space so can hold a better image...
Not so hard to see how BR sells now is it?
Post by: saltfish on January 06, 2008, 12:24:00 AM
Just my 2 cents
Post by: Devedander on January 06, 2008, 12:29:00 AM
QUOTE(m00nstone @ Jan 6 2008, 07:07 AM)
Every optical drive has a limited lifespan based on usage. Why would I want to waste that on movie watching?
How many consumers do you think ever consider that factor or even comprehend it?
The reality is many people stop using a console before it stops functioning so have no thought about failing parts and more yet don't consider causes that factor into a failure or try to understand them... they simply realize their item is broken and needs to be replaced.
For something like laser failure, which usually takes quite a while, Joe Consumer is most likely to simply think "Crap... well that's how long that lasted" and leave it at that... not really try to figure out why and apply it to future purposes.
In fact I would wager most people think of different systems as entirely different entities, not drawing the connection to similar parts. Even if they vaguley realized their PS2 stopped working because the laser died, they probably don't think about it when buying a PS3 beause it's not a PS2 and in their minds the reason their PS2 broke is becuase a "PS2 Laser" died... what does that have to do with a PS3? After all that's a whole different item. We know... they probably don't bother to consider...
Post by: sayguh on January 06, 2008, 01:04:00 AM
*sigh* Sorry, I just had a lovely conversation with a salesmen at best buy who told me "You know the amplifier is good not by the Watts, but by how heavy it is. Feel this one, its heavy, that's what does the amplifying"......To which I of course said something to the likes of "You sure it's not a transistor that does the amplifying? You know, like a BJT? Or a Mosfet? I mean, I've only spent a few years in college studying this stuff, and your a highly trained employee of bestbuy. (I'm EE in communications but still, we do 2 years basic EE). I'm pretty sure the weight comes from the transformer which is essentially two coils of wire with an iron core for flux to pass through, and not from the ultra light solid state transistors which actually do all the amplification buuuuut what do I know?"
UGH, anyway......I'd have prefered HD-DVD win despite it's smaller capacity size. Mainly b/c I wanted to see sony sink and drown for it's dumb move of bundling the unsure technology with it's next-gen console. Granted this might have been the wisest move in hind-sight. But what ever. Sorry for the rant, hope you enjoyed.
Post by: the_nerdy on January 06, 2008, 02:15:00 AM
QUOTE(794 @ Jan 5 2008, 04:23 PM)
i am more interested in the response from MS and Toshiba...any day now...
all this news is most frustrating to those that have already invested in the HD DVD technology, not that those players and movies won't continue to work and look beautiful, but the media choices may continue to become fewer and fewer if studios keep switching...
also, i find it most interesting that most who bash or fanboy either format (esp on these forums) still don't own either format yet...
MS will come around to say HD DVD still has hope as they will push it. Digital Content will become popular but never replace the rental / buying experince. So that is why Blueray, HD DVD does what we need it to do, (for today) But we must think of tommorow which is what the studios have done.
The foreign market in china makes no play into this role as it is all legally pirated formates. And since both are being sold 1:1.
If USA goes 100% Blueray, and china goes HD DVD, it isn't going to bring back HD DVD in the USA or should I say, Northern America.
The good news about this is,
HD DVD players are going to become incredibly cheap now like everyone wanted LOL HAHAHAHAHHA
Post by: a94cobra on January 06, 2008, 02:50:00 AM
Then there is the dumb consumer, which a couple people have pointed out in earlier threads. People in general are just now starting to buy HDTV's. Not because they want Hi-Def, but because they think digital tv means Hi-Def. I swear I have to explain the difference about once a day to someone. And I don't work in the electronics business in any shape or form. Some people I talk to don't even know there are two formats. Most people don't know that Blu means it a blue laser instead of red. None of them know there is a disc capacity difference. They don't know why they need a new format. The average consumer is so dumb they aren't even gonna know there was an announcement! They won't know what not to buy until it isn't even for sale in the store any longer.
Also, Warner stated that they will continue to produce HD DVD until May. So I see that statement as something close to "let's tilt the tables and see if HD DVD really goes away fast." I mean everyone has been waiting for WB to make a choice. It gives them time to see if the playing field leans one direction or not.
What if early this year, Toshiba or other makers(like the ones Wal-Mart is supposed to get), drop a $89 price bomb. Whether it be intentional or because they are just trying to clear stock. And HD-DVD goes on a selling spree, either because people are buying so they will have something to watch on the player they have already invested in or whether it be because they are getting cleared out. And because of that WB sells HD DVD's 3-1 or more over BD. You think they wouldn't prolong the HD DVD sales past May? They would be dumb not to sell all they can. Prolong the format a while longer, especially if they think the BD will eventually win. You will be forced later down the road to buy the movie again on BD. Double the money for them.
So many scenarios, it just isn't done yet. People buy what is cheap. Not what is better. If Toshiba can get there first and sustain the initial beatings then they may yet have a chance.
Now that I have ranted. I wasn't gonna buy a player from either camp till the prices came down and movie selection increased dramatically. But with $99 player from Wal-mart and free movies to go with. I jumped on the HD DVD side. And the fact I don't like $ony. Mainly because of cheaply made products, not because they didn't have good innovations from time to time. I orginally figured a combo player would be a better choice.
I havn't experienced the slow loads on the BD, because I don't have one, and the incompatibility of newer movies with firmware of an unfinished product. But I gotta ask, how has this product been chosen over anything else? If it's as bad as people complain, how do these products get out the door?
Post by: Chancer on January 06, 2008, 10:06:00 AM
It's a good job half of you don't know some of the stunts Toshiba have pulled.
Oh and once again. Do you seriously think that other manufacturers for BR players are going to sit and watch a $100 HD-DVD player released without response?
Post by: Elemino on January 06, 2008, 09:45:00 AM
QUOTE(sayguh @ Jan 6 2008, 02:04 AM)
"Oh no I don't know how to plug in an HDMI cable, someone call firedog!" But yes yes, i mean HDMI, Component, Composite, RGB, DVI, it's all very confusing, i mean it's not like a 3 year old knows that the square block goes in the square hole, or that the red tube fits with the red hole? How in the world could adults figure out such difficult concepts?
Feel this one, its heavy, that's what does the amplifying"......To which I of course said something to the likes of "You sure it's not a transistor that does the amplifying?
As a Circuit City employee I resent some of those remarks. And as the number 1 salesman in my store, I can tell you there are a LOT of people who don't get HDMI... no matter how you explain it to them. They still leave wondering how come they can't just use the old connections they used on their old (non-HD, non-digital) tv set. Last week I had a lady come in and ask me how in the world does she get her tv to show channels. She "connected the hdmi and set the tv to autoprogram." Then after I explained to her on her Sharp TV she needed to put it on input 3, she took another 5 minutes to make sure she had that info right. She must have repeated, "so I put the tv on input 3 and just turn on the cable box?" at least 10 times. Also, you need to take into account that not everyone has their entire setup on a small tv stand and just need to connect a couple of wires. Some of our installs are small media rooms with the tv on the wall, or a projector, plus speakers mounted with the wires ran through the walls.Feel this one, its heavy, that's what does the amplifying"......To which I of course said something to the likes of "You sure it's not a transistor that does the amplifying?
BTW... The guy at Best Buy was sorta right. Sounds like he's been talking to someone who know's the stuff, but he can't quite repeat what he was told. Anyone who seriously knows electronics knows your amplifer is only as good as your power supply. In home audio, the number one telling factor of how good your power supply is, is the the size of the internal transformer. Meaning heavier receivers will produce more power... of course the guy at Best Buy probably on heard the heavier part. And I'm only a Circuit City employee, so what do I know this stuff? Cuz I just completed my degree in electronics. But don't let that fool you, I've been studying electronics since 1998. Even built my own amp once from transistors, capacitors, resistors, and used a diode bridge for rectification.
QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 6 2008, 11:06 AM)
Once again a thread full of people not judging the technology v technology but picking sides based on hatred of one company. Som epeople blindly supporting a product they don't own or use regularly. Do you boycott shops and stuff if your hated ex-girlfriend shops at them?
It's a good job half of you don't know some of the stunts Toshiba have pulled.
Oh and once again. Do you seriously think that other manufacturers for BR players are going to sit and watch a $100 HD-DVD player released without response?
BTW... what stunts have they pulled? I'd be interested in knowing that. (seriously, not being sarcastic)
Post by: Chancer on January 06, 2008, 10:34:00 AM
QUOTE
I know the two technologies pretty well. Bluray is more expensive, that's why the players cost more and a lot of the feature that are standard on HD DVD are optional on Bluray. The bottom line for Toshiba is get more people on board or get ready to close up shop. In my store we have at least 8 player models (including two hybrids) that play bluray, and only 4 players (including two hybrids) that play HD DVD. Forget the A2 and A20, they've been discontinued. The A3 and A30 account for two of the players. Why is Toshiba the only company making HD DVD? Has anyone in here forgot what happened to Apple when IBM introduced the PC and everyone else started building it?
The materials cost involved in Blu ray is not what it was even a year ago. If required companies such as Funai could build for bigger name manufacturers at low cost. That would happen if Toshiba released a cheap player. Toshiba would have to take an almighty risk to do this. It bottled it in the Tv war by opting to drop it's own (excellent) in house chassis designs to buy in cheap crap from vestel, not because it wanted to, but because the financial viability of trying to compete using it's own designs.
Toshiba would need another big backer and MS being MS will not risk financing an operation to flood the market with cheap standalone players. A move which would be immediately countered by the BR camp.
The amount of electronics manufacturers standing side by side with Sony is massive. The big players like Panasonic and Philips are only a couple.
If HD-DVD falls over Toshiba will be jumping ship as well.
Post by: a94cobra on January 06, 2008, 10:40:00 AM
QUOTE(Elemino @ Jan 6 2008, 06:21 PM)
and only 4 players (including two hybrids) that play HD DVD. Forget the A2 and A20, they've been discontinued. The A3 and A30 account for two of the players. Why is Toshiba the only company making HD DVD?
First if you still have A2 and A20 on the shelves, why not count them. You didn't specify. And how can you have hybrids and say no one else builds players.
But you do have a case. Maybe the Toshiba players are too cheap for the competition(other HD DVD makers) to get involved yet. Wal-mart is suppose to be getting an off brand model soon. I forget what I read on when.
Post by: Chancer on January 06, 2008, 10:49:00 AM
There is only really NEC.
The other manufacturers are all Blu Ray (Dell, HP, Hitachi, LG Electronics, Matsushita (Panasonic), Pioneer, Royal Philips Electronics,Samsung, Sharp, Sony, and Thomson)
MS have never really said they are one or the other despite the add on HD-DVD drive.
Post by: ChoZ3nWon on January 06, 2008, 11:08:00 AM
QUOTE(PirateElf @ Jan 5 2008, 08:48 PM)
My only real problem with the format war is the fact that it does indeed seem Blu-ray is gaining ground and that really scares me. Let's look at history of what sony brought to the table:
Beta-max
UMD
Mini-discs
Super Audio Cd
And the list goes on I just can only remember those few. Point being is Sony is notorious for making crappy products. They always have been. People want to point and laugh at the microsoft RROD (Red Ring of Death for you little people) but lets get serious here folks who had a playstation 2 (Gen 1 -3) that for no apparent reason whatsoever just stopped working. MILLIONS upon MILLIONS. Sony admitted to the problem and it was fixed 4 generations later BUT whereas microsoft just increased the warranty Sony basically told you to jog on and deal with it.
I am not saying I am a fanboy for one thing or another but I do tend to know when I see superior products and that's usually ANYTHING that is not sony. And it not just their game systems either but look at their record of other stuff. Sony speakers blow, Sony Tv's are a joke, Sony headphones are awesome for a period of no more than 30 days, (Note personal Experience coming:) Playstation 1 breaks and Sony fails to honor warranty, Sony fails to honor almost all of its warranties unless you pay them. Oh, and lets not forget the travesty that is/was the sony walkmans. Dear god! You remember those things right? You just bought that brand new Metallica Black album and you were so excited, only to have that damned thing eat your tape after only a few plays. The discmans were even worse. Twice as expensive as any other cheap cd player on the market and made with worse parts that would not even play flawless cds sometimes.
Bottom line is in the long run Sony has become synonymous with cheap crappy products that break way faster than they should. They are known to make less than superior toys. Although I must admit that the mini-discs were innovative and a really good idea, just got destroyed due to the ipod/digital music players era. The only thing sony has successfully accomplished was a gaming system. And personally I really think that was a fluke. They happened to be in the right place at the right time. Sony had no competition. When PS1 hit the market they were up against the aged SNES, and the ridiculous hard to program for Saturn by sega and people were losing confidence in sega after the BS that was the 32X / Sega CD addons (Both of which were cool, but not what they promised to be). Sure Nintendo finally release the N64 to our shelves two years after the PS1 already had a foothold in a stagnate market. It simply couldn't complete with the FMV and bigger gaming experience that was the PS1. The PS2 was the same thing really. PS2 was fighting against the aging N64 (Cause let's face it, even though it was a good system most of the games showed their age and were not "Next-Gen" and it was Cartridge based) and the Exalted Dreamcast (The best gaming system in recent memory had it not been for the fact it simply had no third party support, consumer confidence had dropped significantly, and couldn't compete financially with the Juggernaut that is Sony) So since the inception of the Playstation idea sony has always banked on one idea: We have no competition.
The current gaming war is really not even a war. It's a fanboy marathon, and for good reason. This time around Sony really has competition. They have the powerhouse that is Microsoft. With their money and resources they can't be bullied out of the scene like poor Sega, and for the first time since the SNES Nintendo has really done something extraordinary. This time around they really have to show what they are made of, and at this time Sony has nothing going for it except for being the cheapest Blu-ray player on the market. The games at this point are a joke. (Just like almost all 1st gen sony games that have come out over the years.)
With these new companies coming over to Blu-ray no doubt sony is excited, but it just saddens me that companies are choosing a company with a track record of making bad products that just get replaced by better products. Some people might flame me for being a fanboy against sony, but everything I have just told you has come directly from news sources, wikipedia (Not reliable as a source I know but it works), and personal experiences with Sony products. So while I think that this format war is not over just yet, it seems that HD-DVD is indeed losing the battle. Which should bother you, because it could set a trend for further horrible products from Sony.
you sound like one for not knowing that its the BDA that controls Blu-ray and sony is just one of 50+ manufactures.
Post by: biga55 on January 06, 2008, 10:41:00 AM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 6 2008, 12:49 PM)
Which other manufacturers will get involved.
There is only really NEC.
The other manufacturers are all Blu Ray (Dell, HP, Hitachi, LG Electronics, Matsushita (Panasonic), Pioneer, Royal Philips Electronics,Samsung, Sharp, Sony, and Thomson)
MS have never really said they are one or the other despite the add on HD-DVD drive.
I agree with your posts on this like I've said before.
But MS is heavily vested in HD-DVD as they developed HDi (used in HDDVD) which they tried to get into BR but was turned down. BR decided to go with java, and you can bet MS was pissed off. This isn't proven but many believe that Toshiba was ready to throw in the towel in 2005 but MS convinced them to stay in. MS also publicly announced that they would back HDDVD over BR.
Whether this was done to have HD-DVD succeed or have physical HD media fail for the sake or download services (a la Michael Bay) only MS knows.
HDDVD fanboys, please quit mentioning region coding. Of course no region coding would be better for us as consumers, but what do you think the studios would prefer to support? It's not ideal, but that's just the way it is. And please quit ranting off about how Sony can't succeed with media formats. You've heard of CDs and DVDs right?
Sony isn't a saint either but google "toshiba fined" and see what a great, straight shooting company Toshiba is.
Post by: juan_2006 on January 06, 2008, 01:22:00 PM
Post by: Elemino on January 06, 2008, 01:07:00 PM
QUOTE(a94cobra @ Jan 6 2008, 11:40 AM)
First if you still have A2 and A20 on the shelves, why not count them. You didn't specify. And how can you have hybrids and say no one else builds players.
BTW.. bluray is still expensive... it's definately getting cheaper, but it still costs more than HD DVD.
biga55: Sony wasn't the sole inventor of the CD. And as far as the DVD goes, the technology is based on the original creation by Toshiba (it was a colaboration of the two trying to avoid what's going on now with the HD formats). That's the main reason Toshiba is the big backer of HD DVD.
Post by: djtonic on January 06, 2008, 03:18:00 PM
QUOTE(m00nstone @ Jan 6 2008, 07:07 AM)
Ok, you touched a sore spot here. Why would anyone want their game console's optical drive to double as a video player. Every optical drive has a limited lifespan based on usage. Why would I want to waste that on movie watching?
And like most people, I watch alot of movies... but I want my video game system to last.
Don't even get me started on this crap where people want them to bundle hd-dvd in their 360s. People have no brains.
I love when "people" talk about "people". Do you mean the entire human race? Could you say "people" 1 more time please!!!??
I too wanted HD-DVD to last and become the standard but this is a major set back! (HD-DVD even has a better, easier name with DVD in the title)
I will now watch and see what will happen and buying a PS3 may be on the radar. I bought my xbox 1 not only as a game system but because it was my first DVD player. My drive never died because of watching movies or playing games. Early indications are the PS3 hardware is very sound and well built. however I will probably wait until the next revision of the hardware comes out to purchase it.
Remember Sony isnt the only company involved with bluray
Everyone complaining about Sony prices....just don't buy it if you think it is too expensive.
Bad news for the consumers here and for HD but complaining about it and pledging support for a format that won't be around in a year or 2 doesnt make any sense either.
I can probably see HD stick around as a storage medium for the pc maybe but it seems obvious that movies will be BD only
~Dj~
Post by: biga55 on January 06, 2008, 04:11:00 PM
QUOTE(Elemino @ Jan 6 2008, 03:43 PM)
biga55: Sony wasn't the sole inventor of the CD. And as far as the DVD goes, the technology is based on the original creation by Toshiba (it was a colaboration of the two trying to avoid what's going on now with the HD formats). That's the main reason Toshiba is the big backer of HD DVD.
Yes, I know that. We can also say that Bluray is also a collaboration. My point is that people are ignoring these formats so they can talk about how Sony sucks at developing and promoting media formats. Even if you want to dismiss DVDs for the argument as it was mostly Toshiba, you still got Philips/Sony developed CDs.
What's your point? Not being a dick, I am just curious as to why you bring that up? Are you saying the fanboys are right? I never said Sony was the sole inventor of the CD/DVD. Developments like that are often undertaken jointly.
Post by: a94cobra on January 06, 2008, 06:04:00 PM
Post by: GuntherMP5 on January 06, 2008, 07:21:00 PM
People are saying sony makes crappy products.
I don't know if I agree with that, Sony makes very good TV's, I currently would only buy a Sony Bravia or a Samsung ( 5 years ago I wouldn't even include SAMSUNG) and 3rd choice would be a SHARP AQUOS.
Sony's problem is their total proprietary crap that they don't like licensing. But they might be learning, look at the Memorystick, other people make Memsticks although I would only buy SANDISK and their PS3 has slots for CF,SD/MiniSD and memstick, so they are not trying to force people as much. For proprietary BS , you could include Microsoft with there, Proprietary HD and there proprietary wireless technology ( granted they did allow licensing for the wireless guitar since people were bitching after the Guitar Hero II, I can't get on them for their marriage of DVDdrive and Mobo, I understand thats for there protection, but I should be able to swap any larger HD I want! Even Sony Allows this with the PS3! I don't know if its officially approved but it can be done so easily that they had to want to give that ability to the user.
Sony has also been known for their pathetic at best , customer service! REALLY BAD. I had to send my PS3 in for repair ( yes it broke ) but I got it back quicker than my 360 that got sent for repair. So even this they have improved on.
I have a friend that ONLY buys SONY, I personally don't agree but everyones entitled to their opinions. I personally like certain brand for certain items and I usually try to stick with that but then again companies change, look at LG its still China or Korean crap but their QC has gotten a lot better. ( other than a phone I don't think I would purchase anything though)
IMHO opinion:
TV's: SONY,SAMSUNG,SHARP
Receivers: ONKYO, DENON, HARMON KARDON
DVD players( for all those DVD's you still have): OPPO, SAMSUNG upscaling
PC's: Personal Built Only! If you don't know how it works you shouldn't be using it
Speakers: I am not going there , but for the average person-Acoustic Research, ADVENT, or home built ( do your homework and don't skimp on components) are best.
I personally like my BlueRay's better than my HDDVD's but lets not be negative because its backed by a company we don't like. I love my 360 but I don't like Microsoft.
No matter what you do in this day in age you will be constrained by one company or another trying to take your money on their terms. If you do not feel this is fare then I suggest you get involved in the growing Open Source Movement.
"Thats All I have to Say About That!" - Forest Gump
Post by: ludacrisvp on January 06, 2008, 09:34:00 PM
QUOTE(steveju @ Jan 5 2008, 04:10 PM)
"lack of region coding"
HD-DVD is so inferior
Honestly is there even a need to mention this?
I have never had the need to play a DVD from another region.
Why would I need to play a BluRay movie from another region?
QUOTE(HotKnife420 @ Jan 5 2008, 05:06 PM)
The main thing that sucks about all this is that my PS3 is forceably on my SDTV, as my HD is VGA-only (Damn Sony trying to push more TVs). I tried building my own adapter, but then found my monitor doesn't support SoG, so I'm back to square one, I suppose.... LotR on HD would kick ass, tho.
Well you could pick up a DVI-D to VGA converter from Divineo for about $110 USD its called HDFury and while it is not the cheapest thing out there it doesn't need an extra power supply and it is HDCP Compliant so you will not need to buy a new display to view HDCP protected content. Your monitor needs to support RGB and since you say it is VGA and doesn't support Sync On Green (Common for component video) I would think it is RGB compatible.
You blame Sony for having HD over VGA only?
Sounds like an outdated/cheap HDTV to me, is it even a Sony TV?
In 2001 our first HDTV was DVI-D HDCP compliant.
You buy a cheap HDTV and you will not have decent connections, the saying you get what you pay for comes in to play here.
Ex: $400 30" CRT HDTV purchased in 2005 only has (2) component, (1) Coax, (1) S-Video, (2) Composite.
$2000 RPTV purchased in 2001 has (2) component, (1) DVI-D HDCP, (3) Coax (2 in, 1 out), (2) IR Blasters, (5) S-Video, (5) composite.
$1000 FPTV Purchased in 2006 has (1) VGA, (1) DVI-A/D HDCP, (1) component, (1) S-Video, (1) composite.
QUOTE(ErikREspo @ Jan 5 2008, 08:48 PM)
You people that are "sticking with HD-DVD" are not thinking and evidently aren't thinking ahead. You are the same people who think 4.7Gb DVDs are good enough and we don't need more space on the dvd cause the 8Gb dvds are too expensive. The only reason is it "more Expensive" is because you choose not to adopt it.
Meanwhile you enjoy your state of the art T1... I'll take my cable modem.
for those of you who don't understand the T1 comment. Many companies out there still use T1s despite their slow speeds when better technologies are there.
Ah but your problem is when there is someone that does understand T1 and how cable modems work you end up being wrong. Sucks huh?
With having a Bachelor of Science Degree in Information Technology focused under Networking behind me I will let you know the statement you gave is flawed.
No matter what cable company you are using you have a thing called shared bandwidth. This means that everyone that comes off your local node from the company is sharing the bandwidth with you.
Example everyone in your area is on 10Meg and everyone is trying to download at full capacity and there are 100 users and the node has a 100Meg connection everyone will be limited to a 1 meg capacity. This is not even taking into account the overhead bandwidth that is wasted.
The companies that use that "state of the art" T1 choose the connection because it is guaranteed and there is real reliability.
They have that bandwidth dedicated/reserved for their use only. Call it their own private highway to the internet. You will find an extremely low latency connection on the T1 connections.
The T1 connection will always be given priority over non T1 connections that come in to any node on the network on its way to the ISP's OC-x connection to the internet cloud.
However with that said in general a regular consumer will be happy with the shared connection that can burst in speed up to the speed that they are rated for. Speeds over cable will vary throughout the day, during certain times of the day I can download from quality sites at about 1170Kbps and other times not go above 80Kbps.
I am on 10Meg Cable with Charter Communications.
Some cable companies will throttle your bandwidth if you are using too much in a certain time frame, this will not happen on a T1 leased line.
------------------
As far as New line following Warner I think that it is a good choice. I don't see why a select few companies remain on the HD-DVD Bandwagon with so much support backing BluRay.
To whomever mentioned that BluRay initially had larger disc capacity is wrong. They have BluRay prototype discs with 250GB on BluRay and 170GB on HDDVD Ritek made those 10 layer discs, neither are usable on standard drives. Also another BluRay version with 200GB using 6 layers.
TDK had the first 100GB BluRay with 4 layers but wasn't able to use standard equipment either.
Hitachi has also shown at CES in 07 a 4 layer 100GB BluRay that is usable on standard BluRay drives.
The 51GB HD-DVD is a joke. The 3 layer disc was recently approved but there are no movies released on it and Toshiba will not comment on compatibility for this TL disc with the current players.
Why buy the more expensive 3 layer HD-DVD disc when you can fit the information onto a DL BluRay?
Most BluRay movies use one layer, most HD-DVD use both layers. So most movie companies are saving money on the single layer BluRay over the dual layer HD-DVD disc.
-@GuntherMP5 the changing/upgrading of the PS3 hard disk is officially supported and is one thing that certainly helps put Linux on the PS3.
Post by: Elemino on January 07, 2008, 01:43:00 AM
I sell Tv's, and to be honest with you I wouldn't rank Sony 1st in any type of TV.
LCD: 1. Samsung 2. Sony (Samsung made screens)
Plasma: 1. Pioneer 2. Panasonic 3. Samsung (Sony doesn't make plasma's anymore due to their F-ups)
Projection: 1. Mitsubishi 2. Samsung 3. Other DLP's 4. Sony (Sony's do have a sharp picture though)
I would like to point out that 95% of the TV's we send out as defective from the displays are Sony. Take that how you want it, but it makes me want to stay away from them. That includes LCD and Rear projection. Also, don't come with the 'because they have more models.' They don't. Remember, samsung makes their screens, so for every Sony TV, their is a corresponding Samsung. It's usually better, and it's usually cheaper.
I just don't like to invest in Sony products because their ego's are way too big. Their technologies I think are wonderful for the most part. I think Bluray was rushed, UMD was a stupid idea (just use discs), mini discs were too late, memory stick (wtf?), betamax... stop trying to be apple. I'm not saying the "fan boys" are right, I just think HD DVD would be the winner right now if it had been introduced better. Less the capacity, HD DVD was the better format with much higher standards than bluray.
Post by: Chancer on January 07, 2008, 07:57:00 AM
Samsung LCD sets I wouldn't touch too many of the LE series sets with an inherent fault. best thing is half the customers don't even see it until it is pointed out.
Before you say maybe I just don't see the faulty Panasonic and Sony, we are an ASC for all 3 of those manufacturers.
Post by: biga55 on January 07, 2008, 09:08:00 AM
QUOTE(Elemino @ Jan 7 2008, 03:43 AM)
I just don't like to invest in Sony products because their ego's are way too big. Their technologies I think are wonderful for the most part. I think Bluray was rushed, UMD was a stupid idea (just use discs), mini discs were too late, memory stick (wtf?), betamax... stop trying to be apple. I'm not saying the "fan boys" are right, I just think HD DVD would be the winner right now if it had been introduced better. Less the capacity, HD DVD was the better format with much higher standards than bluray.
Ok so you hate Sony (go figure). Guess what? So do I because I've gotten bad customer support from them. I just don't let it make me biased so I can go out and post BS on the internet. Maybe it's because I don't really care who wins, I just wish that someone would win and fast, unlike an HDDVD supporter like you.
It's not that you agree with the fanboys, it seems you are one. For a sec you had me fooled as one of the objective ones. I can't believe you made yet another post about Sony's different formats when my point is about how stupid it was to do so, like it hasn't been done enough right?
Post by: Elemino on January 07, 2008, 01:06:00 PM
I was only making my statements on my personal thoughts of Sony's history, but I never made any negative or deregatory statements about them other than their supersized ego. What I said about the TV's are based on the facts, technologies they include, and how reliable the TV's have been from what I've seen.
So... what exactly did I post that was BS? Let me know, because I back up my claims with facts.
And yes I am an HD DVD supporter, I support HD DVD and Bluray. Too bad the hybrids are still $800. You never heard me ONCE say I was never buying into bluray. I'm not sure where you got that from. I'm getting the 40GB PS3 next week along with my 6 free movies.
Post by: feflicker on January 07, 2008, 01:52:00 PM
Not news, but this is a big reason I don't support Blu-Ray. Forcing all of these disc makers to purchase new hardware just to press these discs is only going to drive up cost even more... HD-DVD IMO is the PERFECT next-gen solution. Blu-Ray is more of a next-next-gen thing if you ask me, doesn't seem ready for prime time but it is being shoved down our throats now. Most of the advantages Bluray currently has will be moot in just a few years as optical media is dying anyway...
Post by: biga55 on January 07, 2008, 03:38:00 PM
QUOTE(Elemino @ Jan 7 2008, 03:06 PM)
So... what exactly did I post that was BS? Let me know, because I back up my claims with facts.
I didn't say you posted BS. I said I don't go out and do that. And what you posted about TVs just comes from a very limited perspective (one person). Chancer's post basically nullified it with his experience. In any case, I never brought up TVs.
And no need to keep insisting on the merits of HD-DVD lol. No one cares at this point.
Post by: biga55 on January 07, 2008, 04:15:00 PM
The forum isn't letting me edit my post so let me add...
My point was that Sony has succeeded with formats like CDs and DVDs (even if Toshiba is largely responsible for that one, the PS2 largely helped usher in DVDs in Japan and perhaps elsewhere). I just wanted to know what your point was in replying to my post but all you did was continue on about how Sony sucks and HDDVD is awesome. Not once did I start saying what a great, humble company Sony was, or tout BR's technical superiority. That's why I say you are a fanboy. I don't know if the TV comments were brought up in response to me but I never talked about TVs either. I am not after a flame war, just a clear objective discussion (fat chance here lol) so I hope that's clear enough for you.
Post by: xcalixxryderx on January 07, 2008, 04:17:00 PM
Post by: Elemino on January 07, 2008, 04:27:00 PM
QUOTE(biga55 @ Jan 7 2008, 05:15 PM)
@elemino
The forum isn't letting me edit my post so let me add...
My point was that Sony has succeeded with formats like CDs and DVDs (even if Toshiba is largely responsible for that one, the PS2 largely helped usher in DVDs in Japan and perhaps elsewhere). I just wanted to know what your point was in replying to my post but all you did was continue on about how Sony sucks and HDDVD is awesome. Not once did I start saying what a great, humble company Sony was, or tout BR's technical superiority. That's why I say you are a fanboy. I don't know if the TV comments were brought up in response to me but I never talked about TVs either. I am not after a flame war, just a clear objective discussion (fat chance here lol) so I hope that's clear enough for you.
The TV's were in response to another person's post. I was actually responding to a few people in a couple of those. I don't really think his post nullified anything though, those companies can choose to handle broken TV's however they choose. I'm just saying, out of the 150 TVs in my store, the majority of them with problems are Sony. Be it the 40S3000 with a line in the middle of the screen, the Projection model that makes everyone look like an ogre cuz it's so green, or the 52W3000 that had the left half of the screen loose verticle sink after it warmed up where the right side was just fine. (There are more) I never forget the bottom line... business is business and the point for ANY of these companies is TO MAKE MONEY Period. The problem is Toshiba didn't have a plan as good as Sony's. Oh well... Either way, wait a couple of years and the prevailing player will sell for about $100 at Wal-Mart... You'll probably be able to get an Emersson for $50, and it will probably play both formats. (Remember DVD-RAM? We still have recorders and players for them)
QUOTE(xcalixxryderx @ Jan 7 2008, 05:17 PM)
Why is it that all the people that have been saying they support hd-dvd since the beginning are so quick to jump ship over this story? seems exactly what the blu-ray camp is hoping for. Im sure hd-dvd made some good sales over the holidays. And with the price drops if you're already in the market for an upconverting dvd player why not go for hd-dvd? And I dont hate Sony I just don't have much respect for a company who treats their consumers like trash. I know Microsoft is mainly behind drm wich is bad enough but the sony root kits was taking it a lil too far. And what about Mini disc players whats the point of selling them and later on saying that ripping you're cds is wrong what else was a Md player good for?
The problem is if 95% of movie companies decide we can only do bluray now, HD DVD is pretty much dead. WB is a huge company to lose in the format war, and NLC is a big one itself. If they see that people begin buying more bluray players, they start making more bluray movies. People see more bluray movies so they start buying more bluray players... and the snowball continues. You're not going to stay onboard with the technology that has a tiny market share... remember Business is Business and the point of these companies is TO MAKE MONEY. $$$
PS. Microsoft is just as bad as Sony. They only extended the warranties because the problems were giving the Xbox 360 a bad name. Now that we have this super extended warranty, it doesn't really make the news anymore.
Post by: FirestormZero on January 07, 2008, 05:10:00 PM
DVD quality is really good. Blu-ray and HD-DVD just aren't that much different. It's not like the leap from vhs to dvd was.
I really don't need that jump.
If average joe has shown us anything, it's that average joe doesn't like either blu ray or hd-dvd... and really doesn't care or see an advantage.
$23,700,000,000 dollars in the total movie sales.
$300,000,000 = Blue ray/Hd-dvd
They are at what? barely 1%.
Noooo oneee caaaaresss guise. We're really happy with dvds. They do a great job. I would never give anyone a bluray or an hddvd as a gift, and to be honest, the quality difference is just not there.
Until we get 3d holographic televisions, this is just an obvious ploy to change hardware so that we all have to buy new things again, except this time, there are no real advantages.
Post by: Elemino on January 07, 2008, 06:20:00 PM
QUOTE(FirestormZero @ Jan 7 2008, 06:10 PM)
Frankly, I find both of these formats completely useless and unnecessary.
Post by: FirestormZero on January 07, 2008, 07:21:00 PM
Seriously guys, those extra few dots per square inch are not important. They mostly reveal source defects anyways.
I see Blu ray being only a luxury videophile brat toy for the next four or five years. The consumer has spoken by not speaking and not buying any of this nonsense. HD-DVD? Blu Ray? We don't care. We're buying dvds, because they work, we like them, they have extra features, and there's only so much the human eye can notice, and at the end of the day, explosions look really similar to one another anyways, and the flaws of people are much more visable (and thus less romanticized/attractive) on bluray/hd-dvd.
Besides, these things are dinosaurs anyways, the next medium is called download. Because all this disk nonsense is 20th century anyways.
Enjoy your overpriced boxes.
<3 FirestormZero
Post by: xcalixxryderx on January 07, 2008, 08:23:00 PM
Post by: a94cobra on January 07, 2008, 08:43:00 PM
But I can't agree on the other. There is a huge difference in the HD format when you get something recorded or broadcast in true HD. It is so awesome.
Post by: Elemino on January 07, 2008, 11:01:00 PM
QUOTE(xcalixxryderx @ Jan 7 2008, 09:23 PM)
How do you not see a difference ?? ya sure it would be over kill to use hd-dvd\blu-ray on a standard def crt but on my 50 inch plasma I can see plenty of difference even when watching from across the room.
If you haven't seen the difference, you haven't seen HD yet. (Or you need to have your eyes checked)
Post by: Chancer on January 08, 2008, 04:38:00 AM
QUOTE
The TV's were in response to another person's post. I was actually responding to a few people in a couple of those. I don't really think his post nullified anything though, those companies can choose to handle broken TV's however they choose.
Your comments are based on the stock in your BB shop. I don't understand the bit in bold??
Over the last 27 years I can put together accurate breakdown figures for TVs and I can tell you that Sony and Panasonic suffer the least. Samsung are very high up the list. We do In warranty repair for all the companies you mentioned, so my observations are not based on simply out of warranty customers who choose to use our service. I also have dealer access to technical bulletins and modifications to incorrect initial design. Sharp are one of the worst for this.
Not that the reliability of Tv sets really has anything to do with anything.
The points mostly being made in here seem to be taking a stance against Companies rather than relevant technology or film/hardware availability and popularity.
Another myth to be dispelled is the fact that the bigger the TV the better the quality of the output picture. The suggestion that a 26" Tv shows a worse quality picture than a 50" or bigger is technically incorrect.
Post by: Elemino on January 08, 2008, 10:35:00 AM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 8 2008, 05:38 AM)
Another myth to be dispelled is the fact that the bigger the TV the better the quality of the output picture. The suggestion that a 26" Tv shows a worse quality picture than a 50" or bigger is technically incorrect.
Who said that? I never once saw anyone say that. The fact of the matter is bigger TV's need higher resolution to correct problems and poor picture quality that came along with stretching a picture made for a 20" TV set (which is what the original designers of TV had in mind). I personally stated the picture quality of a TV made in the early 90's is not going to have the same picture quality of an HDTV made today. I also said that Bluray and HD DVD are not going to matter as much if you have a 20" TV set. I wrapped it all into one simple statement though."What are you watching, an 18 year old 20inch TV?"
Bigger TV's only give you a better picture if they have a higher resolution. Now, having a bigger TV can make things seem more life like because the people aren't 3 inches tall on a 65" TV. I know, I upgraded from a 27" Toshiba I bought in October 2001 to play my Xbox 1 on. It didn't even support progressive scan.
Post by: Chancer on January 08, 2008, 10:26:00 AM
QUOTE(Elemino @ Jan 8 2008, 05:35 PM)
Basically I was saying neither of us has the full picture or can give a full picture..
I have access via the various viewdata systems to returns and fault numbers from more than just the service department I run. Log onto one of the viewdata systems with your dealer code and have a look at allsorts of interesting stats.
QUOTE(Elemino @ Jan 8 2008, 05:35 PM)
Who said that? I never once saw anyone say that.
then why the emphasis on screen size like it made a difference then. You could have merely said you need a HDTV to see the benefit. Your post reads like the size of the HDTV is a factor.
QUOTE(Elemino @ Jan 8 2008, 05:35 PM)
"What are you watching, an 18 year old 20inch TV?"
Who Me? I am watching a 14 inch monochrome set with valves. I don't like colour it strains your eyes.
QUOTE(Elemino @ Jan 8 2008, 05:35 PM)
Bigger TV's only give you a better picture if they have a higher resolution.
There you go again. the picture on any size HDTV will be better than any size SDTV. 1080P on a 65" HDTV is not better quality than on a 32" HDTV. I think that is where I came in
Post by: Molten Universe on January 08, 2008, 11:54:00 AM
My point is (finally I know) that until EVERYONE owns a HD tv this format war isn't really fair considering the percentage of people who can tell the difference with their HD tvs is smaller than the people who can't with SD.
But even if everyone did own a HD tv, it still would be a harder adoption than it was to adopt DVD, because obviously there are to formats now (thats what makes it a war
)Anywho we all have our opinion and we will all enjoy what we want to, stop the BS arguing and chill out by watching whatever format you chose
Post by: Elemino on February 02, 2020, 05:41:00 PM
You're right. The Idea of HDTV wasn't introduced until the late 90's. DVD's had been out long before then. The bad news is how many people still own SDTVs. The good news is that just about any flatpanel TV you buy now is HD... unless you go to Wal-Mart to buy it. In my store every flat panel regardless of size (15 inches and up) is atleast 720p. So if you buy a brand new TV, chances are you can take advantage of a higher resolution considering the big thing on DVD was 480p (480 lines of resolution) up from standard definition's 480i (they call it EDTV).
Chancer
You're obviously just trying to find an argument, because I explained that stuff already. Screen size does matter, 480i was originally made for 20inch TVs. 720 was originally made for larger TVs. 1080 was originally made for TVs larger than 50 inches, although it can be found on a lot of TVs 40 inches and up (and Sharp has a 32 inch model). Why would you not know you need an HDTV to see the difference??? BD & HD DVD are for HDTV. If I have to tell you that, you're in the wrong debate. Still, I'll go back and tell you one more time... If you have a TV below 46 inches YOU DON'T NEED 1080p. If you have a TV below 32 inches you CAN'T get 1080p. If you have a 32 inch that is 1080p it's a Sharp Aquos.
The question wasn't for you. So...
Lastly, I don't know how you took my statement you quoted, but I'll say it one more time slowly.
Bigger TV's only give you a better picture IF they have a HIGHER resolution.
That "higher" means it isn't running the same resolution as the 32inch, and for the most part they don't. 32 inch TV's generally come in 720p format, and 65 inch TV's generally come in 1080p. But I was saying a 65 inch TV will not look better than a 32 inch (a value you inserted) SDTV unless you increase the resolution of the 65.... in other words comparing why you need HDTV in a 65 inch, verses my original size of 20 inches, and why a 20 inch TV does not.
This post has been edited by Elemino: Yesterday, 01:50 AM
Post by: GuntherMP5 on January 08, 2008, 06:08:00 PM
QUOTE(FirestormZero @ Jan 7 2008, 07:10 PM)
Frankly, I find both of these formats completely useless and unnecessary.
DVD quality is really good. Blu-ray and HD-DVD just aren't that much different. It's not like the leap from vhs to dvd was.
What? DVD's look like crap on a an HDTV, I don't even know if they still make SD TV's. It's like watching regular SD channels on an HDTV you have to watch HD channels for a good picture.
Even an upscaling OPPO might make a DVD look better but it's NO WAY NEAR the clarity of a Blue Ray or HD DVD . I just need it becuase alot of the early 70's CULT Classics are not released on any HD format, hell 1/6th of my DVD's are not released on DVD for that matter.
You are crazy or blind, if you think that HD ( whatever format ) is not much different than SD from a DVD.
I suppose listening to a movie from the TV speakers sounds the same as 7.1 digital, Crazy I say!!!!!
Just Crazy!!!!
Post by: Chancer on January 09, 2008, 07:53:00 AM
QUOTE
Why would you not know you need an HDTV to see the difference??? BD & HD DVD are for HDTV. If I have to tell you that, you're in the wrong debate.
I have read your post over and over and still do not get what you are actually trying to say. seems like you are waffling. You seem to be quoting the above as if I have turned round and said there is no difference between DVd and BR & HD-DVD.
I was actually replying to your statements on who makes the best TV sets and the fact you quoted the size of your TV like it made it better quality than smaller HDTVs.
You have now decided to start talking about size and Full HD. Not that the fact it is 1080i or 1080P is any different size wise. simply progressive or interlaced scan.
QUOTE
32 inch TV's generally come in 720p format
Which shop do you work in? Your 32" don't all support 1080i?
QUOTE
If you have a TV below 32 inches you CAN'T get 1080p.
Sharp 22" & Sharp26"
Soyo 24" & 32"
Last post on this as even I am bored with it now.
Post by: biga55 on February 03, 2020, 05:02:00 PM
QUOTE(Elemino @ Jan 8 2008, 07:41 PM) 
If you have a TV below 32 inches you CAN'T get 1080p.
Whaaaa????
I guess you don't know about the 1900x1200 panels that are 24 inches (or even less)? While you can argue that they aren't "TVs" but monitors, there are models that have component inputs as well as HDMI. Either way it kind of kills your argument that high resolutions are only for large TVs.
EDIT: I posted before I saw the end of chancer's post.
This post has been edited by biga55: Today, 01:03 AM
Post by: thor99 on January 10, 2008, 08:25:00 AM