Post by: XanTium on November 22, 2006, 07:47:00 PM
Post by: Nosf3ratu on November 22, 2006, 07:56:00 PM
Post by: AdoptedDeV on November 22, 2006, 08:27:00 PM
I dont hate all white things, just white consoles
:cheers:
This post has been edited by AdoptedDeV: Nov 23 2006, 04:28 AM
Post by: shotgunsteve on November 22, 2006, 08:48:00 PM
Post by: Eraser77 on November 22, 2006, 09:16:00 PM
I need a better hdtv before I get the hd dvd addon.
Post by: masterxbox1000 on November 22, 2006, 09:34:00 PM
Post by: Anubis-MG on November 22, 2006, 10:08:00 PM
I only have 4 HD-DVD's as of now but I will be getting more soon...
Post by: sinister slipknot on November 22, 2006, 09:54:00 PM
Post by: few on November 22, 2006, 10:40:00 PM
For now.
Post by: lowendfrequency on November 22, 2006, 10:45:00 PM
Post by: flattspott on November 22, 2006, 11:12:00 PM
Post by: master4best on November 23, 2006, 01:24:00 AM
QUOTE(few @ Nov 23 2006, 10:11 AM) 
No HDTV=no HD-DVD necessity.
For now.
same here...
Post by: jcdenton2003 on November 23, 2006, 03:22:00 AM
Post by: ThaCrip on November 23, 2006, 05:18:00 AM
Post by: LumpKin666 on November 23, 2006, 06:00:00 AM
Post by: penguin318 on November 23, 2006, 06:23:00 AM
my girlfirend managed to get it for $180 CDN with tax
now i gotta get a collention of HD-dvd's started
Post by: moddingswede on November 23, 2006, 09:18:00 AM
Post by: Suspend on November 23, 2006, 11:53:00 AM
Post by: bobbyblaze on November 23, 2006, 12:01:00 PM
simple as that.
this device gives you a high def picture but no high-def sound. Really wanted one before I knew this but I'll get a proper stand alone. Anyone with a decent sound system with either HDMI or (more likely) 5.1 analogue sound inputs should do the same.
Post by: sabbath_dude on November 23, 2006, 01:22:00 PM
. Not really taken in by all the HD hype so just saving my money.
Post by: brispet1 on November 23, 2006, 04:33:00 PM
I couldn't pass this thing up... must say no regrets at all, only problem is you can see some of the actress' bad
skin problems a little too well
Post by: highbomber on November 23, 2006, 07:53:00 PM
QUOTE(masterxbox1000 @ Nov 23 2006, 05:05 AM)
I love the HD-DVD player. Even as I type this my dad is watching MI3. The detail you get is just amazing. You could never buy a more quality product.
You could never buy a more quality product AND for under $300.
Post by: signal2noise on November 23, 2006, 10:30:00 PM
Until I can rip the new formats this incremental upgrade in quality ain't worth the price.
Post by: Monkey106 on November 24, 2006, 01:02:00 AM
Post by: shadowfire36 on November 24, 2006, 07:52:00 AM
QUOTE(ThaCrip @ Nov 23 2006, 12:49 PM)
i voted "NO (other reasons)" ... cause as of now they just aint worth buying cause the differances will be minimal to none (in image quality) unless u got a super fancy HDTV... plus i think the biggest competition of hd-dvd/blu-ray is the standard dvd format itself since there aint no major leaps forward from standard dvd to say hd-dvd/blu-ray like there was from VHS to DVD... this is main reason i dont think the public will adapt to hd-dvd/blu-ray anytime soon... plus i think it will be many years (atleast 2-3years+) before the "average joe" will actually get a HDTV cause of prices are still overall to high ... so until that happens i dont think bluray or hddvd is even worth bothering with.... plus not to mention we dont even have a clear winner between the two format either.. and prices are still to high for them.
one of these must appy to you
1- your blind
2-your broke
3-your not very smart
4-your old
cause i went to best buy and look at all 3 next to each other on dispaly
hddvd and blue ray are both amazing compared to dry ass dvd
i laughed at my dad cause when dvd 1st came out, he said -theres no difference between vhs and dvd until he came to my house and i showed him the difference .
blue ray is has a very small advantage to its counterpart hddvd but its so unnoticeible to the nacked eye we cant tell the difference unless your trained to noticed it..
as for me i learned my lesson with laserdisc & dvd +r/-r burners - i will never spend the money until it is consider the standard .
the only thing saving sony is that blue-ray is the ps3 standard medium
but i think really hddvd will win if microsoft truly acquires capcom inc.
Post by: ILLusions0fGrander on November 24, 2006, 12:49:00 PM
im not ready to restart my collection when there hasnt been a really good movie in years.
Post by: avatar1976 on November 24, 2006, 03:35:00 PM
Quote from Teamxbox:
=====================================================================
However, rather than producing a Dolby TRUE HD or Dolby Digital Plus surround sound, the audio is mixed down to Dolby Digital 5.1 with the Xbox 360 HD-DVD.
=====================================================================
Read the whole review here: http://hardware.team...-DVD-Player/p4/
Post by: THDVL on November 24, 2006, 05:47:00 PM
To all you who cant find one. Just order it off amazon.. Thats where I got mine as all retail stores around my area are sold out and will be for awhile.
Post by: aross6 on November 24, 2006, 06:40:00 PM
Post by: WildMonkeys on November 24, 2006, 07:26:00 PM
QUOTE(shadowfire36 @ Nov 24 2006, 09:59 AM)
one of these must appy to you
1- your blind
2-your broke
3-your not very smart
4-your old
cause i went to best buy and look at all 3 next to each other on dispaly
hddvd and blue ray are both amazing compared to dry ass dvd
i laughed at my dad cause when dvd 1st came out, he said -theres no difference between vhs and dvd until he came to my house and i showed him the difference .
blue ray is has a very small advantage to its counterpart hddvd but its so unnoticeible to the nacked eye we cant tell the difference unless your trained to noticed it..
as for me i learned my lesson with laserdisc & dvd +r/-r burners - i will never spend the money until it is consider the standard .
the only thing saving sony is that blue-ray is the ps3 standard medium
but i think really hddvd will win if microsoft truly acquires capcom inc.
As a matter affect I heard from one of Major Nelson's podcast some time ago that MS's codecs allowed for better quality, and maybe it's just that I want to agree with them, but my own personal experience tells me that HD-DVD produces slightly better quality (a little brighter, more lifely) and I'm pretty sure they were close to the same tv (they were both sony lcds)
Post by: suppository on November 25, 2006, 12:00:00 AM
Post by: Zaxx on November 25, 2006, 05:13:00 AM
And for you guys who say not everybody will have a HD-TV... it's just a matter of time. And the the people who have so clearly been fooled into buying just a 720p/1080i TV... it's just sad really, that the market can trick everyone so easy.
Note: From Sweden, so sorry for any spelling probs.
Post by: Zoopster on November 25, 2006, 07:12:00 AM
For right now though, $200 is as cheap as you can get for HD movie viewing, and that makes the Microsoft player a good purchase to get you by. Some of you may be concerned by the fact that the 360 doesn't have HDMI, but I wouldn't be. The movie studios are not going to enable Image Constraint Token on any discs for awhile yet, not until the players are in wide availability and HDTV's are common in households. By then, the next XBox will probably be out already. So relax.
Post by: Zoopster on November 25, 2006, 08:43:00 AM
1. Video quality is better on HD DVD/Blu-Ray.
As far as I have observed, that is false. Both formats use the same 3 video codecs (AVC H.264, MPEG2-HD, and VC-1). Both formats also support the same audio codecs (Dolby Digital (AC3), Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, and DTS-HD). Both formats put a cap on the data rate of the disc during single speed movie playback, at around 29.4 Mbps. If a studio (like Warner Bros) releases a movie on both formats, it's a sure bet they used the same source video when encoding for both formats. There is no discernible difference in picture or audio quality.
2. Blu-Ray is superior technology to HD DVD.
Spec-wise, Blu-Ray media can hold more data than HD DVD can (about 25 GB for a single layer release, vs about 15 GB for HD DVD). But Blu-Ray has a couple of significant disadvantages. One, it's new and largely untried technology. The physical disc size may be the same as standard DVD, but everything else about it is significantly diifferent. In contrast, HD DVD has many similarities to existing DVD tech, and authors have had little trouble adapting their methods and equipment for it. Two, Blu-Ray is alot more expensive and time-consuming to produce, at least for now. The tools for HD DVD production are more robust at the moment.
3. Movies look better on Blu-Ray than HD DVD because the discs hold more.
In actuality, that will only have the biggest effect in the short term. As stated above, the single speed data rate is 29.4 Mbps for both formats (which includes all video and audio streams). That puts the file size of a standard 120 minute movie at around 25 GB if max bandwidth is used throughout (unlikely, since most production discs use variable bitrate encoding, not constant bitrate). Both formats can already handle content that size.
Presently, most hi-def releases currently on both formats use MPEG2-HD encoding, which has the worst image quality of the 3 supported codecs. As a result, authors have to encode at pretty much the max bitrate all the time, to compensate for the inadequacies of the standard. However, usage of MPEG2 will soon start to decline.
Some HD DVD releases are now using Microsoft's VC-1 standard, which achieves much better compression while still retaining image quality. As a result, movie file sizes are smaller, well within the limits of both formats. Microsoft has been aggressively developing and perfecting the VC-1 standard, and you can expect many more HD DVD releases to start using it in the near term. To my knowledge there are no Blu-Ray releases that use it, for political reasons as much as anything else, even though it is supported.
But everyone is really waiting for H.264 AVC to take off (right now there are both encoding and decoding problems preventing its widespread use). That standard achieves the best compression of all, and the image quality is very, very good (much better and more lifelike than MPEG2, you'll see). So while an AVC presentation can be encoded to use the maximum amount of disc space, it's very unlikely an author will do this. The image quality is THAT good, and increasing the avg bitrate would not improve it appreciably. So therefore the amount of disc space used by the main feature will drop again, and the size advantage that BD has over HD DVD will be reduced still further.
Where Blu-Ray will have the biggest advantage is in video-based extras, which HD DVD can compensate for by simply including a second disc. But while both formats contain advanced interactivity features (specialized menus, scene selection, etc), the methods used are quite different. HD DVD uses iHD, which is largely a markup-based language similar to XML. Full interactive programming can be achieved by a programmer skilled in markup languages like XML, JavaScript, VBScript, etc, and the files themselves (being text-based) are pretty small. Blu-Ray on the other hand relies on BD-J, which is a Java-based language that requires a compiler to generate the binary files (these tend to be a bit bigger).
4. More studios support the Blu-Ray format. More studios means more movies.
Not necessarily. The main signatories for Blu-Ray are:
a. Twentieth Century Fox
b. Buena Vista (Disney, Touchstone, et al)
c. Sony
d. Warner Bros (recently joined)
e. Paramount Pictures (recently joined)
The main supporters of HD DVD are:
a. Warner Bros (and by affiliation, New Line as well)
b. Universal
c. Paramount Pictures
d. Lion's Gate
There are a lot of studios on the fence still, but lets start with these. Currently, Warner Bros owns almost 30% of the current-generation DVD market. That's right, ONE studio has about a third of all DVD sales. While they have released some Blu-Ray titles, the majority of their releases are on HD DVD right now. Universal owns almost 10% of the DVD market themselves. They they are only releasing titles on HD DVD at the moment.
Conversely, studios like Twentieth Century Fox have more bona fide system sellers in their catalog (Star Wars, anyone?), even though they don't sell nearly as many DVD's as Warner does.
So anyway, stop bickering. It's still way too early in the game. In fact the game hasn't even started yet. My advice is to watch the next 12 months carefully, because at least 2 things will happen:
a. The manufacturing problems plaguing HD DVD and Blu-Ray hardware will be sorted out, and more units will become available. It's hard to predict who will win a format war when neither side has many troops in the field yet. In the next year, more players will be out, prices will fall, and more movies will be available. Then we will see.
b. The prices on HDTV's will also fall sharply. As of a week or two ago, a major manufacturer announced that they were now able to produce 58" LCD panels with an acceptable QC failure rate. That means that the prices on smaller screen LCD panels will start to fall steeply (much of the high cost of very large screen displays is due to high failure rates during manufacturing). You should be able to get an LCD television of 46-50" for less than $2000 in the coming year. This downward price trend will put pressure on plasma TV makers to cut their prices as well.
Once more players are out, and more people have HDTV's in their homes, we will finally get the chance to see what direction the format war will go. Until then, it can't be predicted so don't even try. Sorry for the length of the post.
Post by: sillykaos on November 25, 2006, 01:51:00 PM
Post by: psychoace on November 25, 2006, 05:33:00 PM
QUOTE(Zoopster @ Nov 25 2006, 04:50 PM)
I see a lot a guessing and speculation about the advantages/disadvantages of the two formats in here. I work on development tools for HD DVD production (another division in my company works on the Blu-Ray side), so maybe it would be best if someone who knows what's going on "clears the air" a bit...
1. Video quality is better on HD DVD/Blu-Ray.
As far as I have observed, that is false. Both formats use the same 3 video codecs (AVC H.264, MPEG2-HD, and VC-1). Both formats also support the same audio codecs (Dolby Digital (AC3), Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, and DTS-HD). Both formats put a cap on the data rate of the disc during single speed movie playback, at around 29.4 Mbps. If a studio (like Warner Bros) releases a movie on both formats, it's a sure bet they used the same source video when encoding for both formats. There is no discernible difference in picture or audio quality.
2. Blu-Ray is superior technology to HD DVD.
Spec-wise, Blu-Ray media can hold more data than HD DVD can (about 25 GB for a single layer release, vs about 15 GB for HD DVD). But Blu-Ray has a couple of significant disadvantages. One, it's new and largely untried technology. The physical disc size may be the same as standard DVD, but everything else about it is significantly diifferent. In contrast, HD DVD has many similarities to existing DVD tech, and authors have had little trouble adapting their methods and equipment for it. Two, Blu-Ray is alot more expensive and time-consuming to produce, at least for now. The tools for HD DVD production are more robust at the moment.
3. Movies look better on Blu-Ray than HD DVD because the discs hold more.
In actuality, that will only have the biggest effect in the short term. As stated above, the single speed data rate is 29.4 Mbps for both formats (which includes all video and audio streams). That puts the file size of a standard 120 minute movie at around 25 GB if max bandwidth is used throughout (unlikely, since most production discs use variable bitrate encoding, not constant bitrate). Both formats can already handle content that size.
Presently, most hi-def releases currently on both formats use MPEG2-HD encoding, which has the worst image quality of the 3 supported codecs. As a result, authors have to encode at pretty much the max bitrate all the time, to compensate for the inadequacies of the standard. However, usage of MPEG2 will soon start to decline.
Some HD DVD releases are now using Microsoft's VC-1 standard, which achieves much better compression while still retaining image quality. As a result, movie file sizes are smaller, well within the limits of both formats. Microsoft has been aggressively developing and perfecting the VC-1 standard, and you can expect many more HD DVD releases to start using it in the near term. To my knowledge there are no Blu-Ray releases that use it, for political reasons as much as anything else, even though it is supported.
But everyone is really waiting for H.264 AVC to take off (right now there are both encoding and decoding problems preventing its widespread use). That standard achieves the best compression of all, and the image quality is very, very good (much better and more lifelike than MPEG2, you'll see). So while an AVC presentation can be encoded to use the maximum amount of disc space, it's very unlikely an author will do this. The image quality is THAT good, and increasing the avg bitrate would not improve it appreciably. So therefore the amount of disc space used by the main feature will drop again, and the size advantage that BD has over HD DVD will be reduced still further.
Where Blu-Ray will have the biggest advantage is in video-based extras, which HD DVD can compensate for by simply including a second disc. But while both formats contain advanced interactivity features (specialized menus, scene selection, etc), the methods used are quite different. HD DVD uses iHD, which is largely a markup-based language similar to XML. Full interactive programming can be achieved by a programmer skilled in markup languages like XML, JavaScript, VBScript, etc, and the files themselves (being text-based) are pretty small. Blu-Ray on the other hand relies on BD-J, which is a Java-based language that requires a compiler to generate the binary files (these tend to be a bit bigger).
4. More studios support the Blu-Ray format. More studios means more movies.
Not necessarily. The main signatories for Blu-Ray are:
a. Twentieth Century Fox
b. Buena Vista (Disney, Touchstone, et al)
c. Sony
d. Warner Bros (recently joined)
e. Paramount Pictures (recently joined)
The main supporters of HD DVD are:
a. Warner Bros (and by affiliation, New Line as well)
b. Universal
c. Paramount Pictures
d. Lion's Gate
There are a lot of studios on the fence still, but lets start with these. Currently, Warner Bros owns almost 30% of the current-generation DVD market. That's right, ONE studio has about a third of all DVD sales. While they have released some Blu-Ray titles, the majority of their releases are on HD DVD right now. Universal owns almost 10% of the DVD market themselves. They they are only releasing titles on HD DVD at the moment.
Conversely, studios like Twentieth Century Fox have more bona fide system sellers in their catalog (Star Wars, anyone?), even though they don't sell nearly as many DVD's as Warner does.
So anyway, stop bickering. It's still way too early in the game. In fact the game hasn't even started yet. My advice is to watch the next 12 months carefully, because at least 2 things will happen:
a. The manufacturing problems plaguing HD DVD and Blu-Ray hardware will be sorted out, and more units will become available. It's hard to predict who will win a format war when neither side has many troops in the field yet. In the next year, more players will be out, prices will fall, and more movies will be available. Then we will see.
b. The prices on HDTV's will also fall sharply. As of a week or two ago, a major manufacturer announced that they were now able to produce 58" LCD panels with an acceptable QC failure rate. That means that the prices on smaller screen LCD panels will start to fall steeply (much of the high cost of very large screen displays is due to high failure rates during manufacturing). You should be able to get an LCD television of 46-50" for less than $2000 in the coming year. This downward price trend will put pressure on plasma TV makers to cut their prices as well.
Once more players are out, and more people have HDTV's in their homes, we will finally get the chance to see what direction the format war will go. Until then, it can't be predicted so don't even try. Sorry for the length of the post.
Actually I looked and your list states Lion Gates is HD-DVD but it's actually Blu Ray hugger. I wish it was HD-DVD though cause they are going to release Resaviour Dogs for Blu ray and Behind Enemy Lines. It sucks balls that there is such a crappy war. Just give me my movies damnit. Then Sony owns Fifth Element , Kung Fu Hustle, Lord of War, Talladega nights and Underworld so I really want Blu Ray but I have an xbox 360 so 700 bucks is just out of the question right now. I will probably end up owning a lot of movies in both formats by the time this is all blown over.
Post by: sp00ge on November 25, 2006, 08:44:00 PM
Post by: psychoace on November 25, 2006, 10:11:00 PM
QUOTE(sp00ge @ Nov 26 2006, 04:51 AM)
I'm still confused over the HDMI issue... Does it come with one? If not, is the picture still analog?
No HDMI so yes it's only analog either through Component or VGA although the difference in quality is at most minor.
QUOTE(ILLusions0fGrander @ Nov 24 2006, 08:56 PM)
it would have either been a wii or a HD-DVD player.
im not ready to restart my collection when there hasnt been a really good movie in years.
I still don't see how people think they have to restart their collection just because it's a new format. I understand if it was like going from vhs tapes to dvd's but this is totally different you can still play dvd's on an HD-Dvd player. Vhs can't be played on dvd players so why would you need to restart your collection? Only buy new stuff in HD or movies you think you would enjoy better at such an extreme quality. It's not like anyone is pointing a gun to your head and telling you that in order to be a good little boy/girl you must buy all the movies you have on dvd in HD-dvd/BluRay.
Post by: deadparrot on November 26, 2006, 09:13:00 AM
Post by: Sgt_Yates on November 26, 2006, 11:50:00 AM
So you must choose, at least initially. Until they make an affordable multi-format reader (not cheap or available yet). I still wish they could would allow gameplay from the drive. Then people could use it as a replacement...
I love mine, and if you havent watched a movie in HD 1080i or 1080p, wait to comment...its pretty smooth.
Post by: deadparrot on November 26, 2006, 12:18:00 PM
Post by: oolatin79 on November 26, 2006, 08:07:00 PM
Post by: notguiltystyle on November 27, 2006, 07:33:00 AM
Post by: Zoopster on November 27, 2006, 11:51:00 AM
QUOTE(deadparrot @ Nov 26 2006, 11:25 AM)
You can hardly call DVD+/-R a war. All decent burners/players support them both.
Now they do. But when they first showed up on the market a few years back, you had to choose one or the other because there was no such thing as a burner/player that supported both. Kinda like Blu-Ray vs HD DVD now.
Post by: bhazard on November 27, 2006, 01:24:00 PM
QUOTE(rob61 @ Nov 27 2006, 02:25 PM)
No way... even though I own an XBox 360, Blue Ray is the CLEAR WINNER when it comes to hig rez movies! 1080P is way better than 720P plain and simple.
The xbox360 and hd-dvd add-on both do 1080p just fine. As of now, component will display 1080i, and vga will do 1080p for movies.
Post by: asspop on November 27, 2006, 04:52:00 PM
only thing i dont like is that they need hdmi for it. thats the only complaint that i have.
Post by: atreyu187 on November 28, 2006, 01:44:00 AM
Post by: Boddah on November 28, 2006, 06:29:00 AM
Post by: JustDanMI on November 28, 2006, 06:56:00 AM
Post by: superasshole on November 28, 2006, 09:38:00 AM
REMEMBER VHS AND BETAMAX
beta had a better picture quality, but vhs still won.
How many people are actually gonna trade in their 1080i tv's that they spent a bunch of money on for th 1080p?
not that many. the install base of 1080i is huge while the 1080p is marginal at best.
either one could win, but just wait.
also why replace all the dvd when they would look no better in HD. Some old ones will not get much of an upgrade from going to HD, due to being low quality because they are older movies.
sit wait don't waste money yet
Post by: ben022178 on November 28, 2006, 04:59:00 PM
Post by: Zoopster on November 29, 2006, 07:18:00 AM
The Toshiba HD DVD players currently on the market are not that good. They are EXTREMELY slow (almost a full minute from power on to disc start, even after the f/w upgrade), and have some compliance issues. They're also a lot more expensive. By contrast the X360 player is FAST, and easy to operate.
The same goes for the Samsung Blu-Ray player. Prohibitively priced and slow, it just can't compare to the 360's player.
So really, if you want to get into the HD disc market this year then the 360 add-on is the only way to go.
Post by: []-[]ooDLu[]v[] on November 29, 2006, 05:25:00 PM
Post by: suppository on November 29, 2006, 07:37:00 PM
Post by: Unregistered007 on November 29, 2006, 10:29:00 PM
Post by: bucko on November 30, 2006, 02:27:00 AM
I would like to wait for a clear winner though, and I need to see both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD in action before I decide anyway. I only have a 720p monitor but I'm urging my parents to get a HD-Ready TV at Christmas
.
Post by: compton on November 30, 2006, 06:13:00 AM
Also if i do buy one before the television upgrade, it will probably be used by my pc.
Post by: IntestineMan on November 30, 2006, 10:36:00 AM
Post by: thepissedoffman on November 30, 2006, 11:10:00 AM
Post by: brywalker on November 30, 2006, 10:35:00 PM
I have 2 friends that HAVE purchased it, though (on my recommendation).
Post by: THAbomb82 on December 01, 2006, 10:57:00 AM
When the big sudio's make up there mind to go on this HD trip with one of the players then I will make up my mind..
But for now I'm happy playing my DVD on my 30" HD plasma.....
Post by: Zoopster on December 01, 2006, 12:08:00 PM
So now I am enjoying X360 games and HD DVD playback in full 1080p, and man it looks awesome. I don't recommend VGA at this time... the picture is washed out and too bright, with very poor contrast (known issue I guess). Component is the way to go.
Post by: troyBORG on December 02, 2006, 09:14:00 AM
QUOTE(LumpKin666 @ Nov 23 2006, 06:31 AM)
No - not until they start carrying just the drive for $100 or less. The stupid $200 bundle is a waste.
Look at how much a stand alone HD-DVD player is. And then tell me you don't think this is an awsome price
Post by: SpikeMage on December 03, 2006, 01:54:00 AM
PM me if youve got an extra 42" 1080p laying around.
Post by: sweetsinsemilla on December 03, 2006, 02:03:00 PM
8-layer 200gb discs, bomb.
support next generaTIVE ideas, bomb bomb.
Post by: richto on December 04, 2006, 03:59:00 AM
QUOTE(avatar1976 @ Nov 24 2006, 10:42 PM)
My god, you guys are right, the HDDVD playback downscales the audio to DD5.1 no matter what. WTF???? So this now means standard def DVDs are going to have better audio on the 360 then their HD equivalent Microsoft are you F@&$ING STUPID!!?!? What so those three PPC cores aren't capable of not touching the audio signal and just parsing it through to the fibre optic output.
Quote from Teamxbox:
=====================================================================
However, rather than producing a Dolby TRUE HD or Dolby Digital Plus surround sound, the audio is mixed down to Dolby Digital 5.1 with the Xbox 360 HD-DVD.
=====================================================================
Read the whole review here: http://hardware.team...-DVD-Player/p4/
This is being addressed very shortly in an update that will also include DTS support.
nb - HD DVD is currently outselling Poo Ray 2:1
And the guy who saying Blu Ray is 'slightly better' must be visually impared. The quality of Blu Ray output is noticeably inferior to HD DVD on the current players / movies.
QUOTE(blckwdw1986 @ Nov 30 2006, 12:51 AM)
I have a Panasonic HD Front Projector and regular movies look amazing compared to the 27" JVC tube I had before, especially since my screen is now 72". I am pleased with the 480p movies at the moment, but I would like to see the 360 upconvert/upscale movies to 720p or 1080i. I will be one who waits for the war to be over, my vote is for HD-DVD. Affordable, practical, and usefull. The only problem I see is that the companis backing BD are the more consumer brands and such. We shall see. I don't really care who wins, as long as someone does and the prices drop and movies are widely available.
Why on earth would you need it to upscale? Your Plama / LCD panel is already perfectly suited to upscale movies to the native resolution of your display.
You dont need an external box probably making a worse job of it.
QUOTE(VeNgE_DuDe @ Nov 30 2006, 12:53 PM)
HD-DVD and BLU-RAY as far as set-top players display the same picture in 1080p. The format o the disc is the relivency, not the data that is on it- it is the same. Xbox360 can't show the true HD without 1080p support- which does not work with 360 right now?
HDMI plug is coming for 360, but will it be digital?
Blu-Ray only offers more storage than HD-DVD, and no movie made to date, even fills up a HD-DVD.
I picked the wrong option, I will not get the External player for 360. It's only 500.00 for a Low End PS3 -vs- 800.00 for just a set-top Blu-Ray player = spend the 300.00 more than the HD-DVD player for 360, and get a PS3. You get the Blu-Ray player, plus a game console- win win scenario. Even a set-top HD-DVD player is 400 to 500.00 + 100 = PS3 for me.
Xbox 360 CAN already display 1080P - just get the latest dashboard update that has been out for sometime.
HDMI is ONLY digital. The picture quality is no better than the perfectly adequate component video outputs that you aready have. The only advantage of HDMI is fewer cables. However it adds DRM :-(
Storage wise, HD DVD is the winner -
Dual layer Blu Ray disk = 50GB
Triple layer HD DVD Disk = 45 GB PLUS you get 9 GB of normal DVD on the Flip side = 54 GB....
$500 for a PS3 and you are stuck with a Betamax V2 Poo Ray player and a console with inferior graphics power to the Xbox 360. As can be plainly seen from Ridge Racer / Need For Speed. Not to mention that it runs Linux so you probably need most of the hard disk free for all the security patches it will constantly be downloading...
Post by: STEVEHABS on December 04, 2006, 07:01:00 AM
Post by: richto on December 04, 2006, 08:33:00 AM
QUOTE(STEVEHABS @ Dec 4 2006, 02:08 PM)
richto hd dvd and blue ray titles looks pretty much the same they use the same codecs and are taken from the same master.im guessing you are an hd dvd fanboy/xbox360 fanboy
No they dont - try watching them on the same screen side by side. Blu Ray is a NOTICEABLY worse picture - so quite significantly inferior.
This is largely because BluRay uses an inferior CODEC - MPEG2. Versus VC1 and MPEG4 AVC in HD DVD.
However even when this is not the case, current HD DVD players still outperform Blu Ray as regards picture quality. See http://origin.arstec...60801-7399.html
Occasional compression artifacts and brightness issues also led the site to crown HD DVD the winner. "In our first head-to-head comparison, we found the HD DVD to be superior," wrote Peter Bracke. "The unfortunate cropping of the Blu-ray image, coupled with more noticeable compression artifacts and an overall darker cast, can't compete with the more consistently pleasing presentation of the HD DVD."
See also http://www.hometheat...y_vs_hddvd.html
Not to mention that for the PS3 in particular, Sony has confirmed that the PS3 has no internal scaler as part of its hardware that can upconvert 480p/i or 720p content (whether a standard-def DVD or a PlayStation game) to 1080p/i. That leads to two separate issues. First, if you have a 1080i-only HDTV, it is up to your monitor to upconvert the 480p/i or 720p output from the PS3 to 1080i. Unlike with the Xbox 360. Far more problematic is if you set the PS3 to 1080 mode to interface with your 1080p/i-only monitor, the PS3 can only downconvert 720p content to 480p. There are a wealth of 1080i sets out there that will not accept a 720p signal, so if you are the owner of one of them, you're going to be confined to 480 downconverts of most PS3 launch games, as the vast majority are 720p only. That's a big drawback for the PS3 right out of the gate. Why Sony just didn't build in 1080 upconversion into the console is a bit of a mystery. A fix might be possible via a software update, but as the lack of internal scaling in the PS3 is a hardware issue, that doesn't appear likely.
Post by: emuShelly on December 04, 2006, 05:59:00 PM
Post by: pcrat on December 05, 2006, 12:35:00 PM
im not too picky to make it THAT damn crystal clear.
i will upgrade from hd, when they have a movie that plays in mid air and not on a screen. otherwise hell i will just take a pig old shitola on blueray...
next gen counsole will not use cds. other wise its not the next gen lol duh graphics dont count, we all know there making that part better, what about storage,, no more discs.. thats there whole downfall.
Post by: Zoopster on December 05, 2006, 02:17:00 PM
QUOTE(avatar1976 @ Nov 24 2006, 02:42 PM)
My god, you guys are right, the HDDVD playback downscales the audio to DD5.1 no matter what. WTF???? So this now means standard def DVDs are going to have better audio on the 360 then their HD equivalent Microsoft are you F@&$ING STUPID!!?!? What so those three PPC cores aren't capable of not touching the audio signal and just parsing it through to the fibre optic output.
Quote from Teamxbox:
=====================================================================
However, rather than producing a Dolby TRUE HD or Dolby Digital Plus surround sound, the audio is mixed down to Dolby Digital 5.1 with the Xbox 360 HD-DVD.
=====================================================================
Read the whole review here: http://hardware.team...-DVD-Player/p4/
Optical and co-ax connections can only handle Dolby Digital and DTS audio. You can't pass DD+, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD through an optical connection. Even if you could, no audio receiver would support it. Those audio codecs are only available with an HDMI connector hooked up to a receiver that can decode the sound, which the 360 doesn't have. So the choice for audio output was really Dolby Digital, DTS, or no audio at all. As a previous poster has said, a dash update will allow HD DVD audio to be output as DTS, which should address sound quality somewhat.
I take it you have a top of the line A/V receiver that has HDMI inputs and can decode/play those new audio codecs? I didn't think so. Sit down.
Post by: Zoopster on December 05, 2006, 02:27:00 PM
QUOTE(richto @ Dec 4 2006, 07:40 AM)
No they dont - try watching them on the same screen side by side. Blu Ray is a NOTICEABLY worse picture - so quite significantly inferior.
This is largely because BluRay uses an inferior CODEC - MPEG2. Versus VC1 and MPEG4 AVC in HD DVD.
See my earlier (looong) post. Both Blu-Ray and HD DVD support the same three video codecs. The only issue right now is that Blu-Ray releases are almost entirely MPEG2-HD, while a growing number of HD DVD's are VC-1.
That will change. AVC is also just around the corner for both platforms and that's where the real quality will be seen. However, any comparison right now between releases that aren't even using the same codec is just unfair. I have no doubt (having seen both) that Blu-Ray and HD DVD will both have great picture and sound that will be next to impossible to tell apart from one another. Eventually.
Post by: AngelBallz69 on December 05, 2006, 06:51:00 PM
Post by: Morlok8k on December 06, 2006, 08:28:00 PM
QUOTE(THDVL @ Nov 24 2006, 04:54 PM)
Now I need to find some Hd-dvd pr0n with some hot lesbian action lol!!
while i havent watched HD porn on a HD-DVD or on a BRD, i have seen 1080p lesbian porn straight from the hi-def camera on a PC. close-ups are amazing!
anyways, i plan to get one when more HD-DVDs come out.
Post by: DietWedge on December 07, 2006, 05:21:00 PM
Post by: GuntherMP5 on December 07, 2006, 07:21:00 PM
This should not be flagged or Banned since there really is not a current solution. But you can hook up the 360 to a Windows PC eventually you will be able to decrypt and encode to a WMVHD and it should end up around 4 to 5 GB for Movie Only.( Maybe Less- I didn't really do the math) disk or stream. You could probably do Blue Ray as well but burners are currently over $1K and cheapest media is still $15.
I want a PS3 but really only for the Blue Ray Player. For $200 as a hold me over I recommend that if you have a 1080 TV ( p preferred ) grab one and add HDDVD to your Netflix, It's worth it!
Post by: Foe-hammer on December 09, 2006, 03:45:00 AM
QUOTE(cryptblood1986 @ Nov 24 2006, 07:31 AM)
http://cgi.ebay.ca/N...bayphotohosting
New Toshiba HDA1 HD DVD Player Dolby Digital Plus 1080i even better for $214.50 US
That HD-DVD player on ebay you posted to (stupid that you even posted an auction item) went for $360 US and doesn't even support 1080p. The 360's cost $200 and supports 1080p. So that was a most ridiculous comparison.
QUOTE(Zaxx @ Nov 25 2006, 05:20 AM)
How can you ask a question that's already been answered? And not by some guys oppinion, but by FACTS. Blue Ray is already the CLEAR winner of the two formats. Who wants a HD-DVD that can't output 1080p signal? No.. I don't bother the HD-DVD format... it will be gone before the Blue Ray takes the throne
HD-DVD does support 1080p, and the 360's HD-DVD does too. Some people are still very uninformed, and lack any logic in their discussion.
Post by: trance4jim on December 09, 2006, 05:03:00 PM
I don't need it but it has a great price.Also, the movies are like $19.99 at amazon.
I plan to buy it in the spring when more movies are released.
Everyone with an hdtv must stream wmvhd movies.
When you see Island Fever 3 in hd WoW!
They sell Imax movies in that format right now too.
Post by: Bizquick on December 10, 2006, 11:36:00 PM
Post by: jagermike on December 12, 2006, 08:02:00 AM
Post by: Zoopster on December 12, 2006, 09:03:00 AM
QUOTE(Jish @ Dec 10 2006, 12:02 AM)
I don't know why it is such a big controversy?!? Blu-Ray is, hands down, the better format. It holds more space and it has much faster loading. Sure give it time and things will speed up, but hopefully by that time so will blu-ray, etc.
Faster loading?? What do you base this on? The Toshiba HD DVD player is a slow turd; takes over a minute to power up and play a disc. Incidentally, so does the Samsung Blu-Ray player. That's not because of the format, it's because of the player in both cases. Incidentally, the X360 HD DVD player starts a movie in roughly 10 seconds, or about the same amount of time required to play a standard DVD. The PS3's startup speed is comparable. So that opinion bites the dust.
QUOTE(Jish @ Dec 10 2006, 12:02 AM)
I would never buy the 360 Hd-DVd add-on, unless I could get it for ridiculously cheap............just so I could hack it and use it as a stand-alone. What was MS thinking when they neglected the HDMI cable for the 360, damn proprietary component cables!
Considering the cheapest BD player is the PS3 at $600 (or $800+ on eBay), and the cheapest HD DVD player is $499, I would say $200 for the X360 one is already bordering on the "ridiculously cheap" by comparison. And there is already a way to hook it up to a PC and play HD DVD movies with it. I agree that there should be an HDMI cable for the 360, but I can get 1080p already from the component cables. The Image Constraint Token that reduces HD picture quality on analog connections will not be in use on discs for quite some time to come, and by then the XBox720 will probably be out.
QUOTE(Jish @ Dec 10 2006, 12:02 AM)
Given the fact that one of the biggest pushes for DVD was because the PS2 offered DVD playback, the PS3 should push Blu-Ray quite well.
Face it, PS2 was a really crappy DVD player. There were already very good, affordable DVD players available in 1999 when the PS2 launched, which didn't have the compatibility problems that the PS2 had. IGN used to maintain a list of DVD movies that had problems on PS2 hardware, as well as tracking the various DVD driver updates Sony released to fix the numerous problems (I recall at least 5 offhand). If PS2 had been my primary DVD player back then, it would have made me very chilly to the format until I bought a 'real' DVD player.
QUOTE(Jish @ Dec 10 2006, 12:02 AM)
Sony has a fairly good track record for media:
BetaMax - failed
CD - major success
minidisc - moderately successful in US, very successful in Japan and europe
UMD - probably will fail
ProDuo - success
Also, I'm pretty sure they had a lot to do with DVD development too.
Beta didn't just fail, it failed BIG. A significant portion of the tape-buying public went with Beta because the picture quality was better, and ended up getting burned when it croaked. Although Sony shouldn't bear a lot of the blame for how things turned out, they weren't blameless. The real blame should go to Sony now that they make the choice to proceed with a format war again today, when they should remember how the last one turned out. (I was around back then)
Audio CD was a cooperative venture between Sony and Philips. They share technology, and each company holds several crucial patents. It wasn't an all-Sony thing.
MD disc never caught on in the US. Nobody bought them. They were popular in Japan, less so in Europe. The fact they were recordable was the only positive thing they had going, and that was nullified with the advent of recordable CD. Overall, it was stupid for Sony to introduce a product that competed more or less directly with another of their platforms; but then, that's typical of Sony. They wanted a format that they alone could control, and not share with other companies the way CD is done.
Sony and Toshiba are co-developers of the DVD standard, along with Philips. They share technology for it, and each company controls important patents related to it.
UMD will fail for at least a couple of simple reasons: price, and exclusivity. Who the hell would buy a UMD of a movie for $25-30, which ONLY plays on a PSP, when they can get a DVD version for $15 that plays pretty much everywhere? The DVD will also usually have tons of extras that won't fit on a UMD. Once again, Sony introduces a format intended to compete with one of their own properties (DVD). Very, very stupid; but again, typical Sony. They again are trying to establish a standard that they don't have to share with other companies, and once again it will fail.
So if Sony is indeed responsible for several "successful" formats, it's through no fault of their own.
Post by: xboxuser5 on December 12, 2006, 10:57:00 PM
A. no HD tv to begin with lol
B. I can see my 60" hitachi just fine without HD
C. sony reciever and 10 speaker's rock's the house if needed
D. way to expensive.
E. too soon to tell who will come out on top either blue ray or hd dvd
F. soon they will make a burner for the same price for the pc and then these will be obsolete becuase of their over the top price.
G. more then likely they will have a HD tv/HD dvd player combo tv's like the regular dvd one's already out.
I remeber when the pioneer dvd burner cam out it was $660.00 in the store I got mine for $340.00 and it was a deal 3-4 month's later it was $80.00 or less and obsolete I am sure these will be the same after a few month's I just don't see the extra few thousand dollar clearity here between the player disk and tv like I said I can see and hear my movies fine and still saved alot from staying away from HD stuff I mean yeah it look's great but for a grand or so more it ain't all that better of a picture now lol
Post by: ISOmaniac29 on December 13, 2006, 01:03:00 AM
SONY Blu-ray DVD Burner i got it from newegg for 600bucks and if you ask me blu-ray looks way better
to me then my HD-movies do....i even found blu-ray disks at newegg too got a few of them
but all this blu-ray and hd crap is too expensive if you ask me...
and dvd is fine the way it is i should have probbly stuck with all of that because now im broke
Post by: Bayshido on December 13, 2006, 09:39:00 AM
HD spec 30G FULL HD 8 hours Wat the hell do you want to look ad a film of 8 hours :S
blue even more i think ,, so HD is beter becuase of the cost !!!! or you love to spend more moeny for nothing :S
even so hd blue , we dont need it ,, get a dvd use a divx or xvid it wil fit ,, and use a high motion dedection when encoding for those that complane about macrobloks.
i just like HD just to burn my anime , for noting more
Post by: fullgrown on December 15, 2006, 05:15:00 AM
Post by: phatboy922 on December 15, 2006, 01:31:00 PM
Tom
Post by: Jish on December 19, 2006, 10:12:00 PM
QUOTE(Zoopster @ Dec 12 2006, 10:10 AM)
Faster loading?? What do you base this on? The Toshiba HD DVD player is a slow turd; takes over a minute to power up and play a disc. Incidentally, so does the Samsung Blu-Ray player. That's not because of the format, it's because of the player in both cases. Incidentally, the X360 HD DVD player starts a movie in roughly 10 seconds, or about the same amount of time required to play a standard DVD. The PS3's startup speed is comparable. So that opinion bites the dust.
Considering the cheapest BD player is the PS3 at $600 (or $800+ on eBay), and the cheapest HD DVD player is $499, I would say $200 for the X360 one is already bordering on the "ridiculously cheap" by comparison. And there is already a way to hook it up to a PC and play HD DVD movies with it. I agree that there should be an HDMI cable for the 360, but I can get 1080p already from the component cables. The Image Constraint Token that reduces HD picture quality on analog connections will not be in use on discs for quite some time to come, and by then the XBox720 will probably be out.
Face it, PS2 was a really crappy DVD player. There were already very good, affordable DVD players available in 1999 when the PS2 launched, which didn't have the compatibility problems that the PS2 had. IGN used to maintain a list of DVD movies that had problems on PS2 hardware, as well as tracking the various DVD driver updates Sony released to fix the numerous problems (I recall at least 5 offhand). If PS2 had been my primary DVD player back then, it would have made me very chilly to the format until I bought a 'real' DVD player.
Beta didn't just fail, it failed BIG. A significant portion of the tape-buying public went with Beta because the picture quality was better, and ended up getting burned when it croaked. Although Sony shouldn't bear a lot of the blame for how things turned out, they weren't blameless. The real blame should go to Sony now that they make the choice to proceed with a format war again today, when they should remember how the last one turned out. (I was around back then)
Audio CD was a cooperative venture between Sony and Philips. They share technology, and each company holds several crucial patents. It wasn't an all-Sony thing.
MD disc never caught on in the US. Nobody bought them. They were popular in Japan, less so in Europe. The fact they were recordable was the only positive thing they had going, and that was nullified with the advent of recordable CD. Overall, it was stupid for Sony to introduce a product that competed more or less directly with another of their platforms; but then, that's typical of Sony. They wanted a format that they alone could control, and not share with other companies the way CD is done.
Sony and Toshiba are co-developers of the DVD standard, along with Philips. They share technology for it, and each company controls important patents related to it.
UMD will fail for at least a couple of simple reasons: price, and exclusivity. Who the hell would buy a UMD of a movie for $25-30, which ONLY plays on a PSP, when they can get a DVD version for $15 that plays pretty much everywhere? The DVD will also usually have tons of extras that won't fit on a UMD. Once again, Sony introduces a format intended to compete with one of their own properties (DVD). Very, very stupid; but again, typical Sony. They again are trying to establish a standard that they don't have to share with other companies, and once again it will fail.
So if Sony is indeed responsible for several "successful" formats, it's through no fault of their own.
Well Zoopster, you may have a point with the "plans" with High-definition viewing. But, you have to recognize that there is a REAL difference between an analog signal and digital. Component cables only give a compressed feed, while HDMI gives an uncompressed video feed.
I'm not some little Sony fanboy kid, I'm not just basing my opinion on some current fad. I have worked for 2 VERY top end audio/video cable companies (and I'm not talking about that Monster cable shit people love for some reason). I have seen first hand the capabilities of both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, on many different players, I can also say I honestly think Blu-Ray is the better format. Whether or not Sony markets it well is another story, I was around during the Beta/VHS war also. Out of the 8 or 9 players I actually witnessed, Blu-Ray, at the time, was generally faster loading and better looking.
I've always said that UMD will fail for those same reasons...I honestly think the only way that it will be able to revive itself is if they offer standalone UMD drives/burner and if they lower the damn prices, but it still might be too late for that.
I also think that you are giving much less credit to the mini-disc then it deserves. The mini-disc was not just popular in Japan, it was wildly popular. It would've been stupid to not try and market the mini-disc worldwide. In fact, if it weren't for MP3 players probably would have been popular everywhere. Anyhow, that is neither here or there.
By the way, if you want a tip from someone who ought to know, don't buy high-end HDMI cables, there is virtually no quality difference than a regular cheap brand HDMI. But, if you want hi-fi Audio or Composite/Component cable, make sure it is good quality (Kimber Kable is probably more expensive than what most people would pay....but there are a lot more very expensive cables, and Kimber is pretty fairly priced for good audio).
Post by: prplehz on December 23, 2006, 08:15:00 PM
Post by: Jish on December 23, 2006, 08:30:00 PM
QUOTE(prplehz @ Dec 23 2006, 08:22 PM)
Not to mention many hd-dvds will work in a standard dvd player. It wont play hd in standard player but atleast you can watch it in 480p. I am willing to bet you can't do this with blu-ray. So you could by hd dvds even though you dont have an hddvd player. Then when you get one some day you dont have to start all over with new dvds.
The biggest problem with both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is that they cost twice the amount of a regular DVD. They will go down once they go mainstream, but who cares to buy an HD-DVD now, just because you are eventually going to get one.
Also, I'm not sure you can do that, but if you can do it with HD-DVD's then there is pretty good chance, since they use a very similar laser/wave. My guess is that they will end up making a hybrid device that can play both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.....much like the DVD+R and DVD-R.
Post by: codegamer on January 15, 2007, 02:09:00 PM
i'm fine with my 36" boob tube
Post by: tuna69 on February 10, 2007, 07:28:00 PM