Post by: tex5535 on May 01, 2003, 09:31:00 AM
Post by: methadone_pretty on May 01, 2003, 09:38:00 AM
Post by: Lowen Na on May 01, 2003, 06:58:00 PM
| QUOTE (tex5535 @ May 1 2003, 06:24 PM) |
| can some please either explain or post a link explaining why you cannot create a ps2 or gc emulator for the xbox. |
First: there is no working PS2 or GCN emulator on any system. There is a PS2 emulator or 3 on PC that can boot the firmware, and run a few homebrew roms, but nothing even close to a retail game.
Second: Current high end desktop PCs are not powerful enough to emulate even with their 3Ghz processors, Gigs of ram, and etc. With that in mind, you should be able to figure out that if a 3Ghz Full power Pentium 4 system with 1GB of ram is not powerful enough to do it, then a system that has a 733 Mhz cripled Pentium 3 processor and 64MB of ram won't even come close.
In order to emulate a system of anytype you have to have another the is multiply time more powerful to do so. To emulate the PS2, you would have to emulate a 294.912Mhz RISC (which is very very very diffrent from the CISC x86 CPU that your Xbox and PC use, so the number 294.912Mhz means nothing when trying to compare them, it is much more powerful than a 294.912 Mhz x86 chip would be) CPU with it's 9 internal vertor units and 2 co-CPUs. That is alot of hardware that we:
A: have little to no documentation.
B: Have to reverse engineer before we can even begin to get a working emulator.
C: that is also just the main CPU
The graphics chip is a 147.456 MHz custom CPU, and the sound is produced with 2 other chip altogether. Plus the I/O controller is the Original PSX main CPU.
As you have to emulate more CPUs at one time, the emulation gets more over head.
I can't give you number as to what speed of computer you would need, as those thing depend on if the emulator was optised or not, and how the CPU cores were writen, etc... But regardless the host system running the emulator would have to be incredibly fast.
Don't belive me. Go look at the requirements for SNES9X. It requires a 486DX4 100 Mhz to run and recomends a Pentium 166. Doesn't look like much? The SNES only had a 3.58Mhz RISC CPU, 8-bit 8 channel sound CPU, and 10Mhz 16 bit graphics chip.
Get the Picture?
*edited because I said the XBOX had a 766 CPU, when it has a 733*
This post has been edited by Lowen Na: May 2 2003, 03:28 PM
Post by: bzchi on May 01, 2003, 07:18:00 PM
Post by: Large Dopant white on May 01, 2003, 07:22:00 PM
| QUOTE (bzchi @ May 2 2003, 04:18 AM) |
| Lowen Na: Excellent post, im glad someone had the energy to write this out for these people |
I agree. It's too damn bad it'll be ignored so yet another newbie can post another "idea" on how to emulate the PS2.
Post by: Jse on May 01, 2003, 08:13:00 PM
"it's like trying to emulate mircrowave on a toaster"
:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P
Post by: Mage on May 01, 2003, 08:36:00 PM
Purchase the ps2linux kit, it comes with the SCEI docs required...
R5900, VU ISA and GS
the only thing it doesn't come with info on is how to directly use the IOP, so that's the only part you'd have to reverse engineer, which ps2dev scene is handling that already.
Post by: pelago on May 02, 2003, 02:58:00 AM
pelago
Post by: Lowen Na on May 02, 2003, 08:24:00 AM
| QUOTE (Mage @ May 2 2003, 05:29 AM) |
| Uh, we have all the info you need to make an emulator... Purchase the ps2linux kit, it comes with the SCEI docs required... R5900, VU ISA and GS the only thing it doesn't come with info on is how to directly use the IOP, so that's the only part you'd have to reverse engineer, which ps2dev scene is handling that already. |
I stand corrected. I didn't know that the PS2 Lunix kit came with such documentation.
That aside, there is still no way that the X-Box can emulate the PS2 anywere close to full speed for the other reasons listed in my first post.
Post by: Scan-C on May 02, 2003, 09:05:00 AM
if you want play ps2 games buy a ps2
Post by: kezzz on May 02, 2003, 09:25:00 AM
Post by: Jse on May 02, 2003, 02:43:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| how many times was this asked?it starts to get annoying! if you want play ps2 games buy a ps2 |
or we could not ps2's suck balls
Post by: tex5535 on May 02, 2003, 02:56:00 PM
Post by: Xeero on May 02, 2003, 02:58:00 PM
| QUOTE (jse @ May 2 2003, 06:36 PM) | ||
or we could not ps2's suck balls |
And how is that a solution for those yearning to play PS2 games on their Xbox? Scan-C was trying to be helpful.
Post by: Xeero on May 02, 2003, 03:00:00 PM
| QUOTE (tex5535 @ May 2 2003, 06:49 PM) |
| Thankyou Lowen Na. sorry if it was asked in the past but i could not find a post on it. I just wanted a link as to why this would not work because i saw this on the "things you must know about the xbox" post and was curious as to why it was imposible from a technical standpoint. Nowhere did i claim that i had a ps2 emulator revelation. You need to ratchet down the flaming. |
No, because this has been asked a hundred times. If you couldn't find a 1,000 hits, you didn't search correctly. Are you going to tell me that posting a newbie question for the 1,001st time after a poor effort searching doesn't merit a flame? Run that by the rest of the members and see what they say.
Post by: Jse on May 02, 2003, 07:44:00 PM
and the xbox is far more powerful than th dc
Post by: Lowen Na on May 03, 2003, 02:34:00 AM
| QUOTE (tex5535 @ May 2 2003, 11:49 PM) |
| Thankyou Lowen Na. sorry if it was asked in the past but i could not find a post on it. I just wanted a link as to why this would not work because i saw this on the "things you must know about the xbox" post and was curious as to why it was imposible from a technical standpoint. Nowhere did i claim that i had a ps2 emulator revelation. You need to ratchet down the flaming. |
What did I have in my post that even comes close to sounding like a flame? That post was most likely the most tame post I have ever posted on these boards.
Post by: jsm on May 03, 2003, 12:02:00 PM
Post by: skforty on May 04, 2003, 01:29:00 AM
Post by: gamemaster14 on May 04, 2003, 01:14:00 PM
Post by: Lowen Na on May 04, 2003, 02:56:00 PM
| QUOTE (gamemaster14 @ May 4 2003, 10:14 PM) |
| For examle Take the Killer Instinct Arcade games. Slower systems can run them on U64EMU just fine but Mame emulates them differently so even on the best systems they run slow as hell. My point is you dont need a super fast system to emulate a game. You just need a good emulator. |
That is a very bad example. U64EMU uses very high level emulation and is only able to emulate 2 games on that hardware (not even sure if there were more game on that hardware or not). The mame emulator is a more low level emulation that is more compatible with mutliple games, and more true to the orginal.
I laymans terms, High level emulation is looking at what needs to be done to get the output of the orginal in a few steps as possible and sacraficing compatiblity. (IE: if a game did not use these CPU instruction, then they are not implemented. If a game did not use more than 3 of the vector units, the other 6 or not implemented) It also will use shortcuts and bypass parts of the emulation that it knows what the outcome will be, or an easier way to get teh out come, but these shortcuts only work on one or two games.
Low Level emulation looks at how the machine really works and tries to recreate it in software, which is done correctly, will have great compatiblity. (IE: Every bit of CPU instruction, and hardware is implenented in software)
What you would end up with if you had a HLE (High Level Emulator) for the PS2, is something that looks and maybe even feels like the orginal, but couls only play a few games (the games that use the limited hardware emulated), and would neef massive changes to the core of the emulator to be able to play anyother games (the games that used hardware that was not emulated).
Regardless, there will still never be a PS2 emulator that can run on the Xbox.
Post by: west17m on May 04, 2003, 03:46:00 PM
my $0.02 USD