Post by: Xbox-Scene on January 23, 2008, 11:13:00 PM
Over 21K have signed the 'Save HD-DVD petition' Posted by XanTium | January 24 00:37 EST | News Category: Xbox360 |
| Online petitions are usually pretty useless, certainly for these type of things that are mostly decided by big multi-nationals and not by the consumer. But it's still interesting to see if the HD DVD format is really 'people's choice': Quote
Sign Petition/More Info: petitiononline.com |
Post by: trey85stang on January 24, 2008, 12:01:00 AM
Post by: metalgear1 on January 24, 2008, 12:06:00 AM
I h8 to be the one to say it but does anyone really truly CARE???
I just wish ONE of them would go away already
remember VHS vs BETAMAX ?????
it was only AFTER VHS won the war that we had good CONSTANT video, and thid just forces people into buying ONE format or another and therefore the need for TWO HD players.
If I want to watch my MATRIX collection I need my HD=DVD player but If I feel the need to watch my DIE hard collection I need my blu-ray player
IT'S RETARDED
I just wish ONE would GO AWAY any one I don't care, and I'm sure MOSY people don't care either.
Anyways thats all I have to say.I'll go back to lurking now.
Post by: gAm3 Fr3aQu3 on January 24, 2008, 12:11:00 AM
Who ever made that petition has jokes...
Post by: joes240nismo on January 23, 2008, 11:38:00 PM
QUOTE(trey85stang @ Jan 24 2008, 01:01 AM) 
someone should make a bluray petition to get paramount and universal to switch. It would make things a lot quicker.
yup, agreed... seriously, how is the 50gb format the "inferior" one... mind you i own a 360, when i can, i try not to give in to MS dominating a market, like running linux on boxes i use less, and id MUCH rather watch a bluray, mainly because 5 years from now, id much rather be burning 50gb BD-RE's instead of 30gb HD-DVD's... (50gb triple layer HD-DVD are a joke, and not backwards compatible with exsisting players, mind you no triple layer HD-DVD's exsist yet) id rather support sony than MS, just cause i own a 360 doesnt make me a "fanboy", im gonna support the better technology, i bought a 360 cause of the game library, not cause i love MS... this article is lame, and the petition will go nowhere.
Post by: s2h on January 24, 2008, 12:18:00 AM
Post by: maxpower2001 on January 24, 2008, 12:25:00 AM
Post by: xtriker on January 24, 2008, 12:28:00 AM
Post by: joes240nismo on January 24, 2008, 12:04:00 AM
QUOTE(xtriker @ Jan 24 2008, 01:28 AM)
I just signed the petition because I hate the way Sony force blue-ray in to the market.
how is that? cause they want to use java instead of gay HDi by MS? not that HDi is bad, but why should EITHER one monopolize? they shouldnt, and since technically BD is better, ill just keep hoping more studios switch to BD.
Post by: Luke on January 24, 2008, 12:40:00 AM
eitherway, I'm in the bluray camp...
Post by: troyBORG on January 24, 2008, 12:42:00 AM
QUOTE
Why make us pay like $600 for a Blu-Ray player and like $30 for the discs when we can get a HD-DVD player for like $150 and get the discs for the same price as normal DVDs with the awesome 1080p quality. Keep HD-DVD. Who cares about the won't scratch thing of Blu-Ray, just take better care of your discs people!
Post by: ThaCrip on January 24, 2008, 12:11:00 AM
but at this point there probably aint much anyone can do since it seems like blu-ray is going to win unless something drastic happens
as i read a article not long ago to where it was like 85/15 (market share) in favor of blu-ray p.s. another reason i want hd-dvd to win is cause sony is a shady company that put rootkits on peoples pc's a while back etc.
Post by: QuiescentWonder on January 24, 2008, 12:52:00 AM
"And if extra space is needed, use another disc, big deal."
I know I would love to get up half way through my movie and change discs... not to mention the extra price carried on to the consumers when LOTR and 2001 come out on HD-DVD...
Dave stop. Stop, will you? Stop, Dave. Will you stop, Dave? Stop, Dave. I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my disc is ending. I can feel it. I can feel it. My disc is ending, there is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a-fraid.
I hope HD-DVD goes away now, I want ONE FORMAT NOW. I completely agree with trey85stang, just get this crap over with and move everyone over to Blu-Ray.
Post by: joes240nismo on January 24, 2008, 12:18:00 AM
QUOTE(ThaCrip @ Jan 24 2008, 01:47 AM)
i signed the petition to... cause the HD-DVD is just cheaper than the blu-ray thats one of the big reasons it's better plus i read it's had the same standard since it was made unlike blu-ray which i heard changed it's specs etc.
but at this point there probably aint much anyone can do since it seems like blu-ray is going to win unless something drastic happens
as i read a article not long ago to where it was like 85/15 (market share) in favor of blu-ray p.s. another reason i want hd-dvd to win is cause sony is a shady company that put rootkits on peoples pc's a while back etc.
well, truth of the matter is, yes HD is cheaper, as mentioned though, people wont go out and buy a HD player in fear of the format changing, but by buying a PS3 people already have a BD player... and btw, BD players are ~$350 now, granted HD players are cheaper... the discs really arent.
Post by: gronned on January 24, 2008, 12:55:00 AM
The answer is that HD-DVD is much cheaper, and it's backwards compatible with DVD. VHS was the cheaper alternative and it won and became a success. If Blu-Ray win, the sales won't ever be as high as they could've been with HD-DVD, therefore rendering it a bottleneck in the technological evolution. I wish people could realize that as it's more at stakes than just the format.
Post by: HackMy360 on January 24, 2008, 12:24:00 AM
Post by: QuiescentWonder on January 24, 2008, 12:29:00 AM
The price of both formats is going to drop dramatically before it's all eaten up by the general public anyway.
Post by: ShaX5 on January 24, 2008, 12:33:00 AM
Post by: HackMy360 on January 24, 2008, 12:45:00 AM
Post by: HackMy360 on January 24, 2008, 12:49:00 AM
According to IMDB these exclusive companies have the US distribution rights to the following number of movies:
Universal - 5331
Paramoun - 5753
Dreamworks - 95
Weinstein - 183
Total 11362 films
20th Century Fox - 755
SOny Pictures - 419
Disney Buena Vista - 727
MGM - 3639
Columbia/Tri Star - 4323
Warner Brothers - 4623
Total: 14783
Grand Total of all movies from these companies: 26145
11362/26145 = 43%
Meaning HD DVD has 43% of all catalog titles available for potential release on it's format. It's completely laughable to hear that BDA has 80% of the major studios. Who cares when Fox/Sony/Buena Vista/Disney all acount for less than 2000 movies. That's not even half of Universal's back catalog.
Post by: QuiescentWonder on January 24, 2008, 12:57:00 AM
QUOTE(HackMy360 @ Jan 24 2008, 04:21 AM)
why are people so quick to say blu ray won... because most of the studios support it... when you combine all of the studios behind blu ray and the ones in favor of hd dvd blu ray only has about a 7% lead so HD dvd will still have about 43& of movies out there... this will not be over for a while im afraid
Last I read checked... Blu-Ray has at least 75% of the market.
Plus, who in world says Blu-Ray "isn't finished". Talk about a loose interpretation. Windows isn't finished either, nor is your Xbox 360.
IMDB is entirely user submitted content.
Does someone actually have a good source for a list of films each company owns the rights to?
Post by: HackMy360 on January 24, 2008, 01:05:00 AM
QUOTE(QuiescentWonder @ Jan 24 2008, 12:33 AM)
Last I read checked... Blu-Ray has at least 75% of the market.
Plus, who in world says Blu-Ray "isn't finished". Talk about a loose interpretation. Windows isn't finished either, nor is your Xbox 360.
IMDB is entirely user submitted content.
blu ray is not finished they are doing what MS did to the 360 adding on as they go and untill they finalize the specs it isn't finished HD DVD has all the features blu ray is just getting to implement in their players..
Post by: 0 Executer 0 on January 24, 2008, 02:21:00 AM
although i bought a ps3 yesterday...ill always keep my 360/hd player too
Post by: Chancer on January 24, 2008, 02:35:00 AM
QUOTE(troyBORG @ Jan 24 2008, 07:42 AM)
I'll quote what i said on the petition!
QUOTE
Why make us pay like $600 for a Blu-Ray player and like $30 for the discs when we can get a HD-DVD player for like $150 and get the discs for the same price as normal DVDs with the awesome 1080p quality. Keep HD-DVD. Who cares about the won't scratch thing of Blu-Ray, just take better care of your discs people!
Boy are you misinformed.
QUOTE
its a few of us against an army of Sony taking charge
So are you.
QUOTE(xcalixxryderx @ Jan 24 2008, 08:21 AM)
I signed it!! why would I want to buy into a format thats half finished? whats up with this profile 1.0 then 2.0 ect. crap if I want to have to upgrade all the time I'll play my movies on a computer.
Picked up just a snippet of the info on the internet and have not really actually read and understood what that is about?
I'm not bothering giving full reasons on this. There are enough instances of this being done to death before.
Suffice to say a couple of extra things.
If you sign any petition with no intention of buying either product or using either then, you are not really a supporter. Why sign? Because your friends did? Because you don't like Company X ?
This is not a Monopoly either. Take a look at who is really involved on both sides. Also whoever wins will get support in the form of players made by all sides.
21K is a drop in the ocean.
The problem with petitions online is half the people who sign don't even know why they are signing or for what.
Finally the petition looks like it was written by a 10 year old with no structured backed up reasoning. Simply blanket statements (some that are not correct if you do a side by side comparison)and hatred because Sony are Blu-Ray. To put in a phrase like "Warner Screwed Them All"
If any exec read the wording and reason they would likely throw it in the bin
Post by: mafiafan123 on January 24, 2008, 02:55:00 AM
8608 Total Signatures agianst hd but looks like hd wins. but of course if someone wants one then someones gotta fight about the other. GO HD!
Post by: bucko on January 24, 2008, 02:58:00 AM
Post by: ThaJuggla on January 24, 2008, 03:29:00 AM
Honestly how stupid can you be?
I would hope that every one of them that thinks BluRay movies are so expensive, and that HD-DVD should win because of the price, should be somewhat of a penny pincher. You need to go shop at thrift stores, stop paying for the fastest hi-speed internet you can afford, stop paying for Xbox Live, stop gaming, drive really small cars with the best gas mileage (plus get the car for dirt cheap)... the list goes on. I can guarantee alot of people who want HDDVD to win because of the price are one of those people who buy the latest and greatest electronics just to say they have it. Get a life.
Post by: ThaCrip on January 24, 2008, 03:49:00 AM
QUOTE(HackMy360 @ Jan 24 2008, 03:21 AM)
why are people so quick to say blu ray won... because most of the studios support it... when you combine all of the studios behind blu ray and the ones in favor of hd dvd blu ray only has about a 7% lead so HD dvd will still have about 43& of movies out there... this will not be over for a while im afraid
well it "used" to be that way... but a article i read on neowin.net about a few weeks ago tops said it was a 85/15 lead in favor of blu-ray studio support wise.... so if thats the case HD-DVD is in deep $hit
.... cause based on this it's pretty clear (as of now) blu-ray is going to win unless something major happens.but either way i wont be jumping up to buy either format anytime soon... i wont adopt either til the prices are pretty cheap.... under 100 dollars for a quality player AND movie prices are reasonable cause @ 30 dollars a movie that's just to expensive. at that price i wont even consider buy a movie unless it's sorta in the best of the best category anyways.... cause the fact (well close to fact
) is most movies aint worth 15 dollars TOPS... cause @ 15-20 dollars only the best movie would be worth buying.and also, i still dont have a HDTV myself (well we do but it's in the other room and not my room so basically i have no real need for a HD player right now)
@ ThaJuggla ... i aint one of those people. i NEVER by anything super expensive just to brag! i actually hate people that do that.... the ones who buy $hit just to brag more than anything else!
... the MOST i would ever consider paying for a TV is 2000 dollars TOPS TOPS although most likely if i do shell out for a quality HDTV it will be no more than the 1000 dollar area.... the 1000 dollar area i think offers most bang for the buck (give or take a little)... in general when i get electronics (computer hardware etc etc) i tend to get the fastest you can get BEFORE the price starts skyrocketing with minimal performance/feature differences. 
(aka bang for the buck )and also, i think HD-DVD is generally "overall" better than blu-ray cause it's players are roughly half price and movie prices are about the same right? ... so WHY bother buying blu-ray? (cause if thats true... theres pretty much ZERO reason to by blu-ray over hd-dvd since overall there pretty much the same) ... cause from what i heard... technically blu-ray i heard has theoretically better sound (although i bet it wont be any noticeable difference) and it's got more space (which for movies is no real advantage overall) and they never have a set standard from the get go like hd-dvd did.
Post by: Foe-hammer on January 24, 2008, 04:01:00 AM
QUOTE(s2h @ Jan 24 2008, 12:18 AM)
Last week 93% of all HD players purchased were Blu-ray...
Nice references...
lets not forget the majority of those HD players are PS3's (a game system). And even that being the case, the HD adoption is still VERY small.
That being said, i'm content with DVDs for the time being. Maybe once the HD movies come down to DVD prices, i'll start buying them.
Post by: andyd on January 24, 2008, 05:27:00 AM
Post by: jaynigs on January 24, 2008, 05:29:00 AM
And yeah i agree, a complete waste of time
Post by: PirateElf on January 24, 2008, 06:41:00 AM
But online petitions never go anywhere, but nice to see they are at least trying.
Post by: cerealkillajme on January 24, 2008, 07:48:00 AM
I'd rather see the more affordable and complete from day one format win. It's already up to 23k now
Post by: BoNg420 on January 24, 2008, 07:50:00 AM
QUOTE(troyBORG @ Jan 24 2008, 02:42 AM)
I'll quote what i said on the petition!
QUOTE
Why make us pay like $600 for a Blu-Ray player and like $30 for the discs when we can get a HD-DVD player for like $150 and get the discs for the same price as normal DVDs with the awesome 1080p quality. Keep HD-DVD. Who cares about the won't scratch thing of Blu-Ray, just take better care of your discs people!
Hmm sounds like a dumb comment to me. Maybe you dont keep up with times. You can get a Bluray player now for $300-400 sometimes less if you can use coupons or sales, etc. Also if you pay $150 for a HD DVD player, you are only gettting 1080i. I believe all bluray players on the market now are 1080p. So you are paying $150 for the cheapy HDDVD player when you can get a better one for about $250-$350. So it would make them still about the same price.
Also don't even start that shit with $30 a disc crap, HDDVD and Bluray discs are priced the same, you can get some cheap movies in either Bluray or HDDVD, but new releases for either format is $30-35. The problem is there are people dumb enough to pay retail for a disc, when you can buy them from online retailers cheaper or get BOGO deals.
Post by: BoNg420 on January 24, 2008, 08:00:00 AM
Post by: Merkaba on January 24, 2008, 08:36:00 AM
Post by: cerealkillajme on January 24, 2008, 08:43:00 AM
QUOTE(BoNg420 @ Jan 24 2008, 10:26 AM)
Hmm sounds like a dumb comment to me. Maybe you dont keep up with times. You can get a Bluray player now for $300-400 sometimes less if you can use coupons or sales, etc. Also if you pay $150 for a HD DVD player, you are only gettting 1080i. I believe all bluray players on the market now are 1080p. So you are paying $150 for the cheapy HDDVD player when you can get a better one for about $250-$350. So it would make them still about the same price.
The cheapest HD-DVD player that outputs 1080p is the A30 @ $199 which is still cheaper than the cheapest blu-ray player. Also for those $250-350 blu-ray players, how many do PiP AND Internet Enabled features? None cause they don't have a single Internet Enabled SA player in the market today. And the cheapest player that does PiP will be the Funai @ only an estimated $300. When 2.0 (PiP AND internet enabled) players actually do hit the market it's estimated you won't be getting one for under $500 for a while.
The ONLY blu-ray player on the market ATM that can do it all (and can't until they release the 2.0 update for it) is the PS3 @ $400. And anybody that wants a 2.0 player can either go out and buy the PS3 or sit around and wait till Spring/Summer when they hit the market. Pretty much leaves people that don't want a game system to be their movie player screwed (unless they don't care about 1.1 or 2.0 features).
Post by: Elemino on January 24, 2008, 09:04:00 AM
QUOTE(cerealkillajme @ Jan 24 2008, 10:19 AM)
The ONLY blu-ray player on the market ATM that can do it all (and can't until they release the 2.0 update for it) is the PS3 @ $400.
Actually you're technically wrong here... The PS3 doesn't even support all of the advanced audio profiles, so you can't even say that it supports all of the features of HD DVD.
Post by: englishnamja on January 24, 2008, 09:08:00 AM
if im talking sh*t or dont know what im talking about.. then fair enough flame me.. but nobody in this forum really knows the way this solution is going to be solved.. i know for a fact if im a movie addict i wouldnt be watching them on a xbox 360 anyway.. we all know for a fact HD DVD, BLUERAY etc is going to use alot of resources running thru a USB 2.0 I cant imagine the processor fan usage.. constant whisling from the fans i imagine..if your really into movies get a dedicated player.. if your into xbox 360 and wanting longer life from your xbox360 vote they building HD DVD into the machine or make it the dedicated format for future xbox360 titles....
(WITH) the ablity to watch HD DVD movies....
my 2 piles of Sh*T opinion...
Post by: Reaper527 on January 24, 2008, 09:34:00 AM
QUOTE
Your signature number for this petition is 23833.
and to those who question why anyone would want hd-dvd over bluray, they are pretty equal from a quality standpoint, but
hd-dvd is region free
sony backed formats will always be overpriced
Post by: tutu on January 24, 2008, 09:39:00 AM
QUOTE(gronned @ Jan 24 2008, 07:55 AM)
The answer is that HD-DVD is much cheaper, and it's backwards compatible with DVD.
The players are cheaper yes, but it's not backwards compatible with DVD! I own several HD-DVDs and Blu-ray films. I wish one format would die otherwise the market will never take off for HD films. I brought a dual format drive for my PC a couple of weeks ago.
Microsoft isn't helping either side - they just want everybody to download films from live. (I prefer to own the disk).
Competition is good for the market as it drives down prices. But, eventually one must go. I would like to replace every DVD I own but I'm not doing that until one format wins.
Still, the 360 does a very good job upscaling DVDs (IMO).
Post by: HotKnife420 on January 24, 2008, 09:39:00 AM
QUOTE(englishnamja @ Jan 24 2008, 05:44 PM)
secondly.. why not make HD DVD propriaty disk for the xbox360,... you think companies stopped producing music on the CD when MD was found to be better portablity etc.. make HD-DVD xbox'es propriatry system, cutting back on copy theift, increasing disk capacity, and the ablity to play HD DVD movies...
Then you have 20 million pepole who can no longer play new games.
Post by: The Juggler on January 24, 2008, 10:00:00 AM
QUOTE(HotKnife420 @ Jan 24 2008, 06:15 PM)
Then you have 20 million pepole who can no longer play new games.
Umm... You're off by about 10 million people.
Post by: Elemino on January 24, 2008, 10:17:00 AM
QUOTE(englishnamja @ Jan 24 2008, 10:44 AM)
we all know for a fact HD DVD, BLUERAY etc is going to use alot of resources running thru a USB 2.0
USB 2.0 Transfers 480Mbps or 60MB/s. HD DVD transfers roughly 28MB/s. USB 2.0 is more than enough to transfer the data. The decompression by the 360 is much less strain than the graphics processing of any video game.QUOTE(tutu @ Jan 24 2008, 11:15 AM)
The players are cheaper yes, but it's not backwards compatible with DVD!
Post by: davinator456 on January 24, 2008, 10:35:00 AM
Post by: zX_Storm on January 24, 2008, 10:42:00 AM
QUOTE(gronned @ Jan 24 2008, 03:55 AM)
As this is about monopolizing I wouldn't want either MS or Sony to do it, but one of them will(with the others involved of course). However, I always want technology to progress as well as possibly, and frankly Blu-Ray is a major bottleneck in that area. Sure you get 20GB more on Blu-Ray, but honestly if I burn a disc I really doubt I need that much for every disc. Will games really require more than 30 GB? Will films ever require more than 30GB? Hardly.
The answer is that HD-DVD is much cheaper, and it's backwards compatible with DVD. VHS was the cheaper alternative and it won and became a success. If Blu-Ray win, the sales won't ever be as high as they could've been with HD-DVD, therefore rendering it a bottleneck in the technological evolution. I wish people could realize that as it's more at stakes than just the format.
I'm sorry, but your facts are all wrong. For starters, several companies (including MS) said games would never use more space than a CD (Bill G. even said we wouldn't need more than 64K ram.. google/youtube it). Now most games use up a full 4GB DVD, and plenty use dual-layer. It'll get there eventually. If WoW or Everquest, etc. were on-par with quality from X360 games, they would prob be around 15GB (oh, bye bye HD-DVD 1-layer disc). As for bottlenecking progress.. what the heck? Blu-ray IS NEW technology. HD-DVD still uses a red laser. How is that for technological progression/evolution?
HD-DVD is no more "backwards compatible" with DVD than Blu-ray. Both discs can have a DVD layer on it. In fact, Blu-ray was the first to announce both layers on a single disc with prototype, almost a month before HD-DVD camp had a working prototype. Also, VHS was not cheaper, and it won for terms that have nothing to do with the current format war. Past format wars were not intended for the uses of today. The current format war has a GREAT deal of impact on computers, movies, games, backup, etc. WHEN Blu-ray [officially] wins it'll be a major progress in technological evolution as capacity increases, so will demand. This will cause game makers to utilize even more space and HEY maybe uncompressed Dolby/DTS HD audio (including a lot more of it). That'll be amazing.
All of our technology is "evolving", faster than you're wanting to believe. The question is, how long will a 25GB Blu-ray disc last before dual-layers are needed/mandatory? I'm not expecting a 5-10 year wait, that's for sure.
Post by: Elemino on January 24, 2008, 11:09:00 AM
QUOTE(zX_Storm @ Jan 24 2008, 12:18 PM)
HD-DVD still uses a red laser. How is that for technological progression/evolution?
Check your facts and get back to us. Thanks.
Post by: slipstream on January 24, 2008, 11:51:00 AM
QUOTE(tummybanana @ Jan 24 2008, 04:25 PM)
the people's choice is quite right, after watching the sales of hd dvd really take off before christmas, the bda new they were going to get there asses kicked so they opened negotiations with the wallet.
im amazed at the despiration shown by the bda as they had made one offer to warner and it was rejected, then at the last possible minute they increased it to warner who accepted.....
seeing as that amount would pay for at least 3 maybe 4 blockbuster movies id imagine it would be hard for any major picture company to turn down, but to turn there backs on over 1million dedicated hd dvd player owners is disgusting, especially when warners had decided to go hd dvd in the first place, and let alone so close after the xmas period to boot.
bda has bought the market because they realised that people were choosing hd dvd, so now what choice is there?
a half finished player (bd) or a full spec affordable one (hd dvd), ill take full working spec anyday
if hd dvd fully dies then ill stick with my collection so far and standard dvd.....i will not be forced to buy a player i dont want, regardless of the movie.....
if i cant get it on hi def, then ill just watch it on hi def satellite
Please dont act like Sony/BDA is underhanded because it purchased support to try to win the format war. MS/Toshiba is not above this-remember Universal/Paramount? Think they switched just for fun, or was it the $150million? get off your high horse before you hurt yourself.
Post by: HackMy360 on January 24, 2008, 12:26:00 PM
cuz i want some too..well this is starting to get no where and I just want to add I have never bought a single DVD since that format took off and the only one I was considering to buy was HD DVD that said I would never buy blu ray movies and like some other guy said if I can't get them on HD DVD then I'll just watch them on sat TV I could care less about owning a disk..
Post by: cerealkillajme on January 24, 2008, 12:39:00 PM
QUOTE(endymon @ Jan 24 2008, 02:58 PM)
Rant about BD being better due to nothing other than size
Have you even looked at the differences between the 2 formats besides size? Your entire arguement is based on disc size. It's like they say "it's not about size, but how you use it". And what happens to the size advantage when Toshiba completes the TL51 (triple layer 51GB disc)? Yes of course Blu-Ray can come out with the 100GB disc, but the point is size doesn't really matter.
Post by: bucko on January 24, 2008, 12:42:00 PM
QUOTE(endymon @ Jan 24 2008, 07:58 PM)
It's soo funny how "fanboys" are trying to justify that HDDVD is better than Blu ray.
How on earth can a 15GB / layer be more advanced than a 25GB ?
Let me get this straight - you justify signing the petition because you don't need the extra space ?
It's a pityful excuse trying to save a dying format just because you invested in it.
Let me quote: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair (1878 - 1968)
Yes you invested money in HDDVD and I understand that it's difficult for you to understand that Blu ray with the extra space has a better future.
There are already several games on PS3 easily exceeding 35+GB. This is today - not tomorrow. What do you think the future will bring ? Extra storage capacity is GOOD thing - not a bad thing. Saying you don't need it is saying that 640K RAM is enough. But yeah, history tends to repeat itself :-)
On a personal note I think Sony is one of the worst companies with their annoying rootkits and drm schemes. I would've much rather seen an open format win the battle.
If the choice is between two DRM infected formats, one with 15GB / layer and one with 25 GB - the choice is quite easy...
LoL space doesn't mean everything you know, theres a whole 3D shooter on the net somewhere and it's a 64KB download, the PS3 games that have 35+GB data are uncompressed cut-scenes, loads of uncrompress language and music files and filler space, have you had a look at the awesome games on the 360 like Halo 3, GTA4 (coming out soon), Mass Effect, etc etc and Arcade is a good example of how you don't need a lot of space..HD-DVD has the excellent VC-1 codec (which I think Blu-Ray has now but it's not always supported it) and that goes to show you don't need the extra space. So anyone who thinks space means the format war then they need to thing again...
I do honestly think Warner Bros are shooting them selves in the foot switching now with the launch of cheap players, I'm fortunate to have both formats now so I'm not bothered but what if the tables did turn? Ya it would look like a bad decision haha. I just can't see this format going away, Toshiba invested a lot of money into it, I personally think it's gonna be used in home video recording equipment and the like in the near future (camcorders etc)..I so wouldn't spend £300-£500 on a Blu-Ray burner lol.
Post by: steveju on January 24, 2008, 12:57:00 PM
QUOTE(zX_Storm @ Jan 24 2008, 06:18 PM)
I'm sorry, but your facts are all wrong.
...said the pot when he called the kettle black.QUOTE(zX_Storm @ Jan 24 2008, 06:18 PM)
Also, VHS was not cheaper
But it actually was. It was/is cheaper to produce and had larger storage space compared to Betamax.QUOTE(zX_Storm @ Jan 24 2008, 06:18 PM)
The current format war has a GREAT deal of impact on computers, movies, games, backup, etc. WHEN Blu-ray [officially] wins it'll be a major progress in technological evolution as capacity increases, so will demand.
I'm not too sure people are that keen on even DVD+DL to date. Why buy a disc that contains 40Gb+ storage space when you can buy over 400 DVDs that have over 400 Gb of combined storage space for the same amount of money? It will not have a big impact on anything, at least for a while (give it 6 more years, then you might see something... probably not).QUOTE(zX_Storm @ Jan 24 2008, 06:18 PM)
This will cause game makers to utilize even more space and HEY maybe uncompressed Dolby/DTS HD audio (including a lot more of it). That'll be amazing.
Try lossless encoding, no need to fill that space up just because it's there. Doubt you would download the entire eg. youtube site to your computer just because you'd have 1 Gbit internet access and a large enough HDD.QUOTE(zX_Storm @ Jan 24 2008, 06:18 PM)
All of our technology is "evolving", faster than you're wanting to believe. The question is, how long will a 25GB Blu-ray disc last before dual-layers are needed/mandatory? I'm not expecting a 5-10 year wait, that's for sure.
Yeah, it's evolving so fast that 1080p is not enough in 5 years. I'm still waiting for something bigger and better to kick both of these wannabe HD formats out of the way for some true HD picture, that won't be obsolete before the final format even gets finished.
Post by: Reaper527 on January 24, 2008, 01:20:00 PM
QUOTE(zX_Storm @ Jan 24 2008, 01:18 PM)
This will cause game makers to utilize even more space and HEY maybe uncompressed Dolby/DTS HD audio (including a lot more of it). That'll be amazing.
why would we want that? i would take a lossless format that can be transferred of the disc quickly any day of the week. bluray drives are currently damn slow compared to dvd, which is why the ps3's extra storage comes at a price. a 360 can read a file thats compressed in a lossless format and decode it quicker then a ps3 can stream a large uncompressed piece of data from a bluray disc.
the optical drive is the bottleneck, so more space isn't necessarily better at this time.
Post by: feflicker on January 24, 2008, 01:36:00 PM
Post by: Chancer on January 24, 2008, 02:10:00 PM
QUOTE
And what happens to the size advantage when Toshiba completes the TL51 (triple layer 51GB disc)?
It's never going to become reality to the consumer.
QUOTE
The cheapest HD-DVD player that outputs 1080p is the A30 @ $199 which is still cheaper than the cheapest blu-ray player.
it's cheap because it's a "clearing the decks sale"
This debate is identical to all previous ones
Post by: cerealkillajme on January 24, 2008, 02:39:00 PM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 24 2008, 04:46 PM)
It's never going to become reality to the consumer.
Although I agree we may not see it that wasn't my point. My point was that size is in-significant in this war.
QUOTE
it's cheap because it's a "clearing the decks sale"
Actually the A30 was $300 before the price drop. Which was still lower than any of the Blu-Ray players were at that time (IIRC the lowest BD player then was $350), not to mention every BD player at that time was 1.0 (will never do PiP or Internet Enabled features).
Post by: Chancer on January 24, 2008, 02:50:00 PM
QUOTE(cerealkillajme @ Jan 24 2008, 10:15 PM)
Although I agree we may not see it that wasn't my point. My point was that size is in-significant in this war.
Actually the A30 was $300 before the price drop. Which was still lower than any of the Blu-Ray players were at that time (IIRC the lowest BD player then was $350), not to mention every BD player at that time was 1.0 (will never do PiP or Internet Enabled features).
The players took a dive because they are clearing them out so they can afford to take a hit on them rather than be saddled with them. It is a good buy. In fact I have just found one at £119 over here. I have emailed the firm to see if they have any. If they have I am having one at that money. It will do for the movies I can grab cheap now regardless of the so called format wars The petition is a shit waste of time still
Post by: Mr. Me on January 24, 2008, 03:36:00 PM
Post by: chipagain on January 24, 2008, 03:56:00 PM
QUOTE(s2h @ Jan 24 2008, 07:18 AM)
Let's get over it and concentrate on games. If its any consolation, MS wants d/l to rule and none of the formats to succeed.
That's a common idea but I doubt it's true for *that* very reason. Games. Think on it for a while. One thing MS wouldn't want to do for their next Xbox is put an optical drive with a Sony's IP in it's machines. That would mean that for every machine they sold Sony would receive a percentage from the company that made the drive.
The alternatives for their next gen console are either to develop their own physical media or to use an existing format licenced from a non-competitor (with the manufacturing process already refined for cost and efficiency). MS is going for the cheaper option of the two.
Post by: Elemino on January 24, 2008, 04:53:00 PM
QUOTE(bucko @ Jan 24 2008, 02:18 PM)
LoL space doesn't mean everything you know
Endymon: Most people who have invested in these technologies care nothing about size because they're not using the discs to store files. And if you know anything about compression you know that size isn't the tell all factor. (That goes for Dobly Digital and DTS as well).
Post by: Devil-Man on January 24, 2008, 05:06:00 PM
Post by: Aeneidos on January 24, 2008, 06:16:00 PM
does anyone else have anything better to say about blu-ray than "it has a bigger disk capacity." thats all i have been reading here from those who are backing blu-ray i can tell you disk capacity isnt everything when it comes to picture quality. and besides you know what they are gonna do with that extra space *drum roll please* fill it with a bunch of useless extras and behinds the scenes crap that you are not going to watch anyways.
Post by: ramzeva on January 24, 2008, 06:51:00 PM
Post by: itchy on January 24, 2008, 07:15:00 PM
(I only say that because I have a PS3)
Post by: Mr Invader on January 24, 2008, 07:30:00 PM
QUOTE(ramzeva @ Jan 24 2008, 08:27 PM)
Im sure it would be more helpful if those 25k worth of people went out and bought 5 to 10 hddvd movies each.
or if those 26k(now) went and bought 5 HD-DVD players each and gave them away...
#of HD-DVD players = 750,000 est. with attachment rate of 4
#of BR players = 6,000,000 est.(?) with attachment rate of .6
6,000,000 * .6 = 3,600,000
750,000 * 4 = 3,000,000
Not much difference.
(If the numbers are anywhere close to being accurate)
Attachment rate doesn't mean much to the studios; the movie sales are too close to call.
I think the number of players in homes is what the problem is...
Post by: Elemino on January 24, 2008, 08:30:00 PM
Post by: Elemino on January 24, 2008, 09:25:00 PM
QUOTE(CyberFoxx @ Jan 24 2008, 10:26 PM)
I don't see myself upgrading my motherboard anytime soon for something with SATA
You could just get a SATA controller card for your PC.
Post by: mc_365 on January 25, 2008, 12:01:00 AM
QUOTE(slappynutz @ Jan 25 2008, 06:10 AM)
Where to begin.
- Blu-Ray players are NOT $600 (try half that, usually less).
- The discs are NOT $30 (in fact they are on average CHEAPER than HD-DVDs -- I never pay more than $20 each).
- HD-DVD discs are nowhere near the same price as DVDs.
- The HD-DVD player you can buy for $150 cannot display 1080p, only 1080i.
Every single one of your proof points was incorrect. I don't see how, with even a modicrum of research, you could think any of them is true.
Petitions are universally useless. HD-DVD was a fun little format but Toshiba made a series of mistakes, from poor marketing to failing to gain more than the minimum in support to failing to get HD-DVD drives in every Xbox 360. But the funniest part about this petition is the clearly fanboi, inaccurate and silly anti-Sony FUD in the petition ... like anyone with more than a high-school education would pay attention to it.
I wish XS or some other body would just put together a factual comparisson so everyone could stop spreading FUD.
Please State what current Blu Ray player has every feature available in the least expensive HD-DVD player?
I'm guessing NONE and the Closest would be the PS3 at $350 vs $200 pre Black Friday prices.
1080i vs 1080P argument = Bullshit
If you buy any HD-DVD Disc, it will be compatable with any HD-DVD player whether it is 1080i or 1080P... now follow me here.....
If the both players can achieve their respective resolutions from the same disk, without upconverting....
That means there is no additional information on the disk.
Therefore, if your TV is a 1080P display, it will display the movie at 1080P!!!!!!
The only reason one would need a 1080P player is if his TV has a crappy deinterlacing chip.
And if thats the case all broadcast television (1080i max) would look like crap on it cuase you bought a crap television. If CBS HD looks good on your set than 1080P dosent matter as no signal from cable/Sat/or Broadcast is at anything above 1080i, the television does the deinterlacing.
The only thing 1080P on the disc player does is add to the cost. It's Marketing!!!!
Java vs HDi
The Blu Ray camp originally voted they preferred HDi when writing the spec.
They turned to Java, not becuase it was better but becuase of politics between companies.
HDi is the reason every HD-DVD has PiP and interactive menus and why only a few Blu Ray players have semi interactive menus and PiP.
One last note on Sony.
I bought a Sony CRT HDTV back in 1998, so I've been in HD a long Time compared to most here.
But guess what??
PS3 in all of it's glorious 1080P dosen't work with my set.
Since the PS3 dosen't have a scaler and early HDTVs didn't have scalers either and only displayed 480i/p or 1080i. I don't know if theres been an update to fix this but thats Sony for ya.
Post by: Chancer on January 25, 2008, 02:46:00 AM
QUOTE
Since the PS3 dosen't have a scaler and early HDTVs didn't have scalers either and only displayed 480i/p or 1080i. I don't know if theres been an update to fix this but thats Sony for ya.
And that is Sonys fault because you bought in early and your set doesn't have a Scaler. How about accept if you are first in then you may not get some features that are introduced later. It is the same with everything electronic and it always has been. Did the first VHS buyers complain that they couldn't use the videoplus numbers the later ones could? or that they were only Mono and not stereo? I doubt it. progress means different feature sets all the time. If you want to take advantage then change your TV.
QUOTE
HDi is the reason every HD-DVD has PiP and interactive menus and why only a few Blu Ray players have semi interactive menus and PiP.
the newer profile players have this. On a personal note it really is of no interest to me to have these features. PIP was a huge failure when first introduced on earlier stuff. If I am watching a movie , I don't want an annoying distraction on the screen. Others may do but I would like to bet the numbers are small.
I wish everyone would stop making this huge play on the price of the Players (much like the pointless play on Disc capacity of BR) Toshiba are at present clearing old stock at sale prices. Some real bargains to be had. But these are not a newly introduced model at a permanently sustainable low price.
Post by: Devil-Man on January 25, 2008, 07:57:00 AM
QUOTE(slappynutz @ Jan 25 2008, 01:13 PM)
You completely misread my post. Read again.
All I was doing was refuting the post. He stated Blu-Ray players were $600. That's factually no longer true. No where did I, or the post I was referring to, mention relative player capabilities. Only price.
I'm well aware of the difference (and often lack thereof) between 1080p and 1080i. The original post I was replying to (and I guess you didn't read) touted 1080p on cheap HD-DVD players ... which are incapable of 1080p. It's a simple, clear distinction. You just wasted your time trying to educate the educated when all you had to do was read the damn post. I don't care if it's marketing. The original post claimed something that was not true. That's all. Very simple.
Sony CRT? Scaler? How is that any of my concern? I don't care. The original post was spreading FUD like Blu-Ray discs costing too much and HD-DVD discs costing the same as SD-DVDs ... clear, simple FUD, which I corrected, and you simply misread and started going off on a tangent over.
I'm sorry your old TV doesn't work with a PS3. I'm also sorry you wasted your time writing a lot of exclamation points.
What is this? Some kind of trump card?
Do me a favor. Look up how old Universal and Paramount are. It's okay I'll wait.
You mean to tell me they're two of the oldest studios around? Even as old as the defunct RKO?
Well they must have a TON of really old, Black and White, 4:3, Silent, and otherwise useless titles in their catalogues.
I wonder if many of those thousands of ancient catalogue titles are worth converting to HD and releasing. Hell, I wonder if many of those thousands of ancient Paramount and Universal catalogue titles have even been released on DVD. Oh, wait, I know the answer. They haven't. Because they're old.
A far more apt comparison would be the number of catalogue titles released after, say 1970, that are in a condition to be encoded and released in HD. Or maybe how many of those catalogue titles, post 1970, drew decent enough box office to attract an audience in HD.
Well, we kind of already know. Almost across the board, day-and-date releases like Ghost Rider somehow manage to outsell vastly superior catalogue titles. That's because most people prefer to buy HD discs for NEW movies, not old ones, and especially (at this early stage) beautiful-looking new movies with great camerawork and effects.
And on that score, Blu-Ray wins hands down.
But then again, it already did. Jeez guys let it go. HD-DVD had some good points but all this whining and complaining and sour grapes makes it seem you're far more interested in hating Sony, and loving a format, than loving movies.
PWND!!
(i'm with that guy)
Post by: mc_365 on January 25, 2008, 10:30:00 AM
QUOTE(slappynutz @ Jan 25 2008, 01:13 PM)
You completely misread my post. Read again.
No, I didn't.
The point is your post is just as misleading as all the rest on both sides.
Thus the desire to have 1 document with Comparisson so people can learn and make an informed decision.
Not argue back and forth everyday and confuse others.
QUOTE
All I was doing was refuting the post. He stated Blu-Ray players were $600. That's factually no longer true. No where did I, or the post I was referring to, mention relative player capabilities. Only price.
It's pointless to refute an incorrect statement with half ass answer that adds nothing to discussion.
A VW Beatle and a Ferrari are price differently, but that statement means nothing.
If you don't know anything about Beatles and Ferraries you would assume they are the same, so the Beatle is a better car cuase its the same and cheaper? Cost means nothing if you have no Qualitative Points of comparisson. Thus you statment added nothing but to confuse the uneducated into thinking the players are priced similarly.
QUOTE
I'm well aware of the difference (and often lack thereof) between 1080p and 1080i. The original post I was replying to (and I guess you didn't read) touted 1080p on cheap HD-DVD players ... which are incapable of 1080p. It's a simple, clear distinction. You just wasted your time trying to educate the educated when all you had to do was read the damn post. I don't care if it's marketing. The original post claimed something that was not true. That's all. Very simple.
I did'nt need to read the previous thread as I stated
QUOTE
1080i vs 1080P argument = Bullshit
That means either side using it as a pro is spreading FUD.
The feature is built into every 1080P television!!!!!
I just put it into context of where it may be of some use.
QUOTE
Sony CRT? Scaler? How is that any of my concern? I don't care. The original post was spreading FUD like Blu-Ray discs costing too much and HD-DVD discs costing the same as SD-DVDs ... clear, simple FUD, which I corrected, and you simply misread and started going off on a tangent over.
It may not be of any concern to you.
Thus
QUOTE
One last note on Sony.
Meaning in addition, but not as important, but for informational purposes.
Sony has a significant amount of legacy televisions that they are not supporting, even thought HDTV penatration is still small relative to the population.
QUOTE
I wonder if many of those thousands of ancient catalogue titles are worth converting to HD and releasing. Hell, I wonder if many of those thousands of ancient Paramount and Universal catalogue titles have even been released on DVD. Oh, wait, I know the answer. They haven't. Because they're old.
A far more apt comparison would be the number of catalogue titles released after, say 1970, that are in a condition to be encoded and released in HD. Or maybe how many of those catalogue titles, post 1970, drew decent enough box office to attract an audience in HD.
Well, we kind of already know. Almost across the board, day-and-date releases like Ghost Rider somehow manage to outsell vastly superior catalogue titles. That's because most people prefer to buy HD discs for NEW movies, not old ones, and especially (at this early stage) beautiful-looking new movies with great camerawork and effects.
And on that score, Blu-Ray wins hands down.
But then again, it already did. Jeez guys let it go. HD-DVD had some good points but all this whining and complaining and sour grapes makes it seem you're far more interested in hating Sony, and loving a format, than loving movies.
I won't even address this childish nonesense
Post by: perfectdark on January 25, 2008, 10:33:00 AM
These guys did a petition to save hd-dvd and i already seen a petition to have paramout & universal to switch to bluray
enough is enough
I hate Sony, but bluray is better, so lets move on so all of us can enjoy 1 format with all movies available
Post by: mc_365 on January 25, 2008, 11:21:00 AM
QUOTE(perfectdark @ Jan 25 2008, 07:09 PM)
Just pull the plug and take HD-DVD off Life Support already
These guys did a petition to save hd-dvd and i already seen a petition to have paramout & universal to switch to bluray
enough is enough
I hate Sony, but bluray is better, so lets move on so all of us can enjoy 1 format with all movies available
Thats a smart way to look at it? Give up, accept what ever Big Business Gives you, cuase they know whats best for you.
9 million PS3 owners have decided for 6 billion people
I don't care about the petition or the companies involved, I only care about me (the consumer).
HD-DVD is currently a better product from the perspective of the educated consumer.
Underneath the headlines and PS3 vs XBOX hype, whom was paid off, Java vs microsoft, the truth is there.
HD-DVD is a better product for the mass populus. Anyone who thinks different, give the facts, not future specs but the current facts to support their claim.
Post by: Chancer on January 25, 2008, 03:25:00 PM
QUOTE
HD-DVD is a better product for the mass populus. Anyone who thinks different, give the facts, not future specs but the current facts to support their claim.
I think different. Larger manufacturer support for Blu-Ray but the one key factor Catalogue of titles , both now and in the future. Don't even think about limiting your question by adding in
QUOTE
not future specs
Because the future is the key in respect of movie choice.
Post by: jesterrace777 on January 26, 2008, 04:25:00 AM
Post by: erexx on January 26, 2008, 06:38:00 AM
Trying to argue either is a loosing bet for both sides.
HD-DVD does beat Blu-Ray Players in terms of price.
The price of Blu-Ray Players can quickly change if Paramount turns blu.
It will only take about 12 more months for Blu-Ray to hit that magical 199 price range if they do.
The media has since equaled in terms of price.
Great deals can now be had on both sides.
To the HD-DVD camp... Save Farscape! 05/08!
Post by: Chancer on January 26, 2008, 07:26:00 AM
what I want to know is which of the cheap HD-DVD models are actually still in full production as a current model. Clearing Toshiba stock is not long term thinking.
Post by: photoman on January 26, 2008, 07:39:00 AM
QUOTE(HackMy360 @ Jan 24 2008, 03:25 AM)
Another fact that really irritates Blu Ray fanboys:
According to IMDB these exclusive companies have the US distribution rights to the following number of movies:
Universal - 5331
Paramoun - 5753
Dreamworks - 95
Weinstein - 183
Total 11362 films
20th Century Fox - 755
SOny Pictures - 419
Disney Buena Vista - 727
MGM - 3639
Columbia/Tri Star - 4323
Warner Brothers - 4623
Total: 14783
Grand Total of all movies from these companies: 26145
11362/26145 = 43%
Meaning HD DVD has 43% of all catalog titles available for potential release on it's format. It's completely laughable to hear that BDA has 80% of the major studios. Who cares when Fox/Sony/Buena Vista/Disney all acount for less than 2000 movies. That's not even half of Universal's back catalog.
I look at these numbers and think about QUALITY over QUANTITY. There are so many crap movies out there that I would never purchase from any of the studios, that these numbers can't truly mean anything.
Plus if Universal were to pump out all 5000+ movies they have in HD-DVD they wouldn't have anywhere to put them.
ANd having 43% of the market doesn't mean you win. You still lose.
Post by: Elemino on January 26, 2008, 08:26:00 AM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 26 2008, 09:02 AM)
Blu Ray prices will drop quickly. Sony has now developed a smaller less costly laser unit.
what I want to know is which of the cheap HD-DVD models are actually still in full production as a current model. Clearing Toshiba stock is not long term thinking.
QUOTE(slappynutz @ Jan 24 2008, 11:10 PM)
Where to begin.
- Blu-Ray players are NOT $600 (try half that, usually less).
- The discs are NOT $30 (in fact they are on average CHEAPER than HD-DVDs -- I never pay more than $20 each).
- HD-DVD discs are nowhere near the same price as DVDs.
- The HD-DVD player you can buy for $150 cannot display 1080p, only 1080i.
- Bluray starts at $399 in my store for the Sony BDP-S300, Samsung BD-P1400, and the Panasonic DMP-BD10A. The Sony BDP-S500, which is the one that supports most of the features of the Toshiba HD-A30 is currently $599 after a $100 price drop by sony.
- On average ALL of the H(igh)D(ef) movies cost about $10 more than their DVD counterparts. Of course Wal-Mart and Amazon are a little different from the typical retail store.
- HD DVD discs may not be the same price as DVD, but the HD-A3 actually cost LESS than some of our upconverting DVD players.
- True the $150 model does not display 1080p, but the $200 model does, and it still comes in far cheaper than any blu-ray player.
Post by: FCTE on January 26, 2008, 09:29:00 AM
QUOTE(jesterrace777 @ Jan 26 2008, 06:01 AM)
For those of you wanting this format war to end, you need to think things through here very clearly. The format war is the driving force behind all of these bogo sales on movies and getting hardware down into the affordable price-range. If you think that you aren't going to be stuck paying $25-$30 a movie on a regular basis or $300+ for a player if Blu-Ray wins then think again. If HD-DVD were able to pull it off though it would be very different since players are very close to the price-point at which mass adoption can occur.
This is the biggest load of BS.
The format war is still on once one of the HD formats falls for good. Whoever wins has to compete against DVD. They won't be able to win people over and convert them by gouging them with high prices.
What you're saying makes no business sense at all.
Post by: Reaper527 on January 26, 2008, 11:19:00 AM
QUOTE(FCTE @ Jan 26 2008, 12:05 PM)
This is the biggest load of BS.
The format war is still on once one of the HD formats falls for good. Whoever wins has to compete against DVD. They won't be able to win people over and convert them by gouging them with high prices.
What you're saying makes no business sense at all.
actually, what he's saying does make business sense. the format war is artificially driving the price down via the movies included bundles. if hd dvd was to win, the fact that it is cheaper to produce then bluray, and becoming cheaper every day would mean it wouldn't be too long before hd-dvd could compete against dvd on a price level. $150 for a player is what the general public (who can't tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p) want. once the price drops below $100, its marketable to the general public instead of just the techies who are involved in the format war right now.
also, sony has ALWAYS attached a price premium to any format they have had in the past (look at betamax, mini discs, super audio cds, UMD's, and if blueray wins the format war, expect to see jesters price being pretty accurate there too)
Post by: Chancer on January 26, 2008, 11:28:00 AM
QUOTE
also, sony has ALWAYS attached a price premium to any format they have had in the past (look at betamax, mini discs, super audio cds, UMD's, and if blueray wins the format war, expect to see jesters price being pretty accurate there too)
Then why have Sony spent hard cash and developed a cheaper smaller laser assy for Blu Ray?
You are assuming something that you can not say for sure at the moment simply because it's Sony.
Post by: SphtKr76 on January 26, 2008, 12:21:00 PM
QUOTE(zX_Storm @ Jan 24 2008, 11:18 AM)
. As for bottlenecking progress.. what the heck? Blu-ray IS NEW technology. HD-DVD still uses a red laser. How is that for technological progression/evolution?
HD-DVD is no more "backwards compatible" with DVD than Blu-ray. Both discs can have a DVD layer on it. In fact, Blu-ray was the first to announce both layers on a single disc with prototype, almost a month before HD-DVD camp had a working prototype.
As mentioned earlier, HD DVD does not use a red laser. Also the Blu Ray group does not have permission from the DVD forum to include a DVD layer, or do combo discs. They may at some point in the future, but not currently.
QUOTE(biscoito @ Jan 24 2008, 07:25 PM)
It uses that ultraviolet thing, I was getting sick of that red color of the laser used by cds, dvds and HD DVD players, they should have made these lasers in different colors along time ago
See above.
One more thing, unless your TV or PJ supports 1080p/24 then a 1080i player will give you the same PQ as a 1080p player, unless your TV is really bad at de-interlacing. I have test both the HD-A2 and the A20 on my Samsung (HL-S6187w) and get zero difference in PQ.
Post by: mc_365 on January 26, 2008, 07:30:00 PM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 26 2008, 08:04 PM)
Then why have Sony spent hard cash and developed a cheaper smaller laser assy for Blu Ray?
You are assuming something that you can not say for sure at the moment simply because it's Sony.
I would think so they can build players cheaper than the other manufacturers.
Then License the use of this new technology to those other manufacturers.
At the same time keeping the high royalty fees in place.
Which in turn will cause the players made by those other manufactures to remain at high prices relative to the Sony made PS3.
This will continue to drive PS3 sales.
PS3 sales will continue to be base of Bluray statistics, which Sony will use to support the adoption of Bluray and the sucess of its gaming division.
And I still am against Bluray in its current incarnation despite the shrewd moves by Sony.
I prefer Region Free, Inexpensive, Fast Loading, Interactive, and Picture in Picture in my player.
And I am not a fanboy as I don't own either format.
I was going to get a new Plasma and HD-DVD with my 2007 Bonus but then the Warner Bro. News put me back on the side line. I will now have to wait till either HD-DVD is truly dead (no choice), Studios agree to release in HD-DVD, or a Bluray player that is comparable in all aspects is available.
Post by: Chancer on January 27, 2008, 03:39:00 AM
QUOTE(mc_365 @ Jan 27 2008, 03:06 AM)
I would think so they can build players cheaper than the other manufacturers.
Then License the use of this new technology to those other manufacturers.
At the same time keeping the high royalty fees in place.
Which in turn will cause the players made by those other manufactures to remain at high prices relative to the Sony made PS3.
This will continue to drive PS3 sales.
I can see what you are saying but the rest of the manufacturers would turn on Sony were this the case. Sony with all their might can not afford to alienate such a group.
It is not the case in point at the moment and I can still purchase the Samsung player cheaper than the PS3 and cheaper than the Sony offerings. If Sony was even at present charging other manufacturers more for their developed components, then the Samsung would not be lower in price than the relative Sony players.
QUOTE
I was going to get a new Plasma and HD-DVD with my 2007 Bonus but then the Warner Bro. News put me back on the side line. I will now have to wait till either HD-DVD is truly dead (no choice)
i would have thought now was the time to buy a HD DVD player. the price of the Toshiba players is almost as cheap as buying a branded DVD player.
I already have BR but it will not stop me buying a Toshiba HD DVD player this week.
Post by: mc_365 on January 27, 2008, 02:47:00 PM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 27 2008, 12:15 PM)
I can see what you are saying but the rest of the manufacturers would turn on Sony were this the case. Sony with all their might can not afford to alienate such a group.
It is not the case in point at the moment and I can still purchase the Samsung player cheaper than the PS3 and cheaper than the Sony offerings. If Sony was even at present charging other manufacturers more for their developed components, then the Samsung would not be lower in price than the relative Sony players.
i would have thought now was the time to buy a HD DVD player. the price of the Toshiba players is almost as cheap as buying a branded DVD player.
I already have BR but it will not stop me buying a Toshiba HD DVD player this week.
Currious are either one of those players profile 1.1?
Post by: Chancer on January 27, 2008, 04:18:00 PM
QUOTE(mc_365 @ Jan 27 2008, 10:23 PM)
Currious are either one of those players profile 1.1?
The current models are not as you know. The PS3 of course is. I suppose the time to compare is when new players with the smaller laser assy are mass released.
TBH the extra content and PIP is not really appealing with either. I don't ever watch the extras on DVDs so I can't see I will bother watching them at all with the Toshiba