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[wimpyRBX]

i do agree emuwriters have to do what they want, but on that note i do hope the emu coders will embrace Xtras project to highten the emu experience.

for us wanting emus to more than just a "supermarioplayer" Xtras project has made a kind of museum/retroarchive feel to the community.. would love to see someone writing something in cowork with this great addition of xtras:)

i'd do it myself, but i lack coding skills to make it.

another approach would be to write emus as simple as possible  and allow commandline start so frontends instead would integrate the xtras..

in the end it boils down to the emu coder(s) choice..

[Mega Man (?)]

Didn't you guys see that nes wrote that he would need to take the code (with madmabs blessing of course) to make things easier...

I took that as, he would be trying to implement the same code into his emu.
no argument.

His FBL synopsis code is built off of a style and approach that mame synopses have had in them for a while (I think) It has nothing to do with what he may do with other emus.

[neoryu]

QUOTE(Mega Man (?) @ Jan 27 2010, 04:38 PM)

Didn't you guys see that nes wrote that he would need to take the code (with madmabs blessing of course) to make things easier...

I took that as, he would be trying to implement the same code into his emu.
no argument.


His FBL synopsis code is built off of a style and approach that mame synopses have had in them for a while (I think) It has nothing to do with what he may do with other emus.

Regardless of whether or not the FBL synopsis code was built off of the style and approach that MAME employs, the simple fact of the matter is, Nes does not have any obligation to include any content from the Xtras project.  He doesn't have to even put a synopsis into his emu at all, whether it's his own or one designed by someone else.  His port will still be great.  

My point is, his app is his app.  It will play NES games, it will have a very nice GUI that's fully featured in ways that affect how well the games actually play, and the GUI will more than likely be easily skinnable.  That is all that really matters for some of us.  I trust his judgment on what to do with his port.  It will, quite simply, kick loads of ass based on his track record.  

Again, there's absolutely no offense intended for anyone involved with the Xtras or any other Xbox development in any way.  I am aware that it has obviously taken a hell of a lot of time invested from RX, Madmab, and a multitude of helpers.  The contribution is valued, but it should not be indirectly "forced" onto every developer in every case.  

I share XTecuterX73's sentiments.  Everyone's contribution is of great benefit to the community.  If users want Xtras content in every app, then perhaps they should use the Xtras emulators exclusively.  Every app does not need that content. If nes takes the Xtras synopsis - then fine.  If he doesn't - then it will still be fine.  A port of Nestopia from him would be very nice either way.

[neoryu]

QUOTE(ressurectionx @ Jan 27 2010, 04:31 PM)

I'm sure he did it beautifully and the end user isn't any the wiser.  It's just that you'd be taking a nearly perfect thing that had many hundreds of hours of work put into it and having to figure out a way to break it up and do it completely differently.  If it can be done, and there is a desire for somebody to put in the effort, by all means do it.  You have my blessing 100%. I will not be a part of it though because I will not spend any more time on something I believe to be perfect already. If the synopsis is added and it's implemented like it is in FBL, then NES is going to need the communities help to get it working.  I can't imagine that it would take longer to code it to match our synopsis than it would to break everything up to match the FBL synopsis system.

I know I don't code, so I don't get the same respect that NES and Madmab and XPORT and others get around here, but I'm willing to bet at this point that I've put more man hours into the box than anybody else has just to get the coded features working to their full capabilities.  I'm not demanding anything here.  I'm simply suggesting that since the majority of the work has been done already that it should be easier just to build the code around the finished work.

The Xtras project has obviously taken an unbelievable amount of your time RX.  Everyone involved closely with you can more than likely say the same.  But the project is yours, nes6502's projects are his, and so on.  To me it stands out as great that you're so graciously willing to share the Xtras.  But that is not to say that other apps won't be fine without being tailored to accommodate them.  That's where it gets kind of tricky at times.

I know you are very proud of what you have done, but there are developers on the scene who can offer their own beneficial contributions in their way.  Much appreciation to you and I know you will get the credit you deserve for all of that time you spent.  Hopefully you can play some games at some point.  You've been missing out on the focus of classic emulation for a while -- I can't wait until you can play some games and have some fun.

But certainly, you guys can work this out.  It's not really an argument.  Everybody's work can be appreciated.

[wimpyRBX]

Exactly. Every coders choice to include whatever he wants

I atleast hope for retro-minded people that codes stuff in this emuscene will atleast consider to include something like Xtras to bring more to the party(community).

I myself am torn beside having the emulator taking advantage of Xtras or having each emulator doing it. In my head i see Xtras being used in frontends as the best solution and the emulators being as simple as can be when it comes to launching. I tried making a very quick frontend in Windows using the simple commandline launch of MESS emu's, but the emulation in MESS is not at all close to the single system emu's.. so I guess I'll have to wait for the emulationscene to choose whether or not to include Xtras in emu's or create a kickass multi-emu that can be used as a backend for frontends..

That's just my final two cents on the subject matter

[ressurectionx]

I understand all of that, and I'm not arguing with anyone.  I'm just making two points....

1) If the synopsis and the ability to use other Xtras is not implemented, it will be #2 on my list and get a lot less gameplay than the XPORT version gets.  Personally, there are many things I like better about ZSNESXBox, but it doesn't get too much play now on my system since it doesn't do a lot of the things I've been working on with Madmab for the XPORT version.

2) If it is implemented, I suggest building the code around the already established synopsis instead of ripping it apart and spending countless hours reinventing the wheel and then having to go and test to make sure that they all work.  If reinvention is the way to go, I am just stating that I will not be around to work on it or test that it works.



Bottom line is, I will have this emu on my Box either way, and it will be appreciated, but it will only be a backup for me to play games that can't be played on the XPORT version if we can't do anything with the Xtras on it, just like (my favorite emu) ZSNESXBox is now.  This also has to do with the fact that we can't do anything with the Dynamic Skins on ZSNESXBox either.  My greatest desire would be to see Nestopia ported to the XBox in the XPORT format.  Then the only thing making them different would be the list of compatible games, possibly some other features I'm unaware of, and any skins that people make in honor of NES's work.

Here's hoping that NES and Madmab can get together on this and help each other improve their own respective emulators.  





EDIT:  Here's a perfect example of the kind of thing I'm trying to prevent....

run just let me know some info on converting console stuff to work with CoinOPS now that it has console compatibility.  I may have read it wrong, but it seems that we'd have to basically rename all of the roms, videos and any other Xtras to make it work with CoinOPS.  This simply is just not practical and I will not personally be making complete duplicates of my sets to work with another emulator.

If the code was written right in the first place, which I was more than willing to help direct, the Xtras would be available for both systems from a single source.  In this case, the emu is more than capable of handling the media, but since it goes about it in the wrong way, I will not be playing SNES or Genesis from the newest version of CoinOPS.

[nes6502]

QUOTE

1) If the synopsis and the ability to use other Xtras is not implemented, it will be #2 on my list and get a lot less gameplay than the XPORT version gets.  Personally, there are many things I like better about ZSNESXBox, but it doesn't get too much play now on my system since it doesn't do a lot of the things I've been working on with Madmab for the XPORT version.

Then you are not concerned with the games. You are concerned with the GUI primarilly and with the games second. There's nothing wrong with that, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of even running emulators on the Xbox? I don't care how great any GUI is for any emulator, I am going to use the emulator that has the best compoatability, funs fullspeed, and emulates sound the best. It's great to have a virtual museum of information in the GUI, but in the end, the games are what matters most. At least to me. I will never sacrifice emulation quality over bells and whitsles.

The same rule applies to Nestopia. There is no contest between Nestopia and ANY other NES emulator (perhaps Nintendulator) for accuracy. Not to mention, from my early tests, it seems to be running far faster than Mednafen does on the Xbox. For example, I can't get many FDS games to run fullspeed with Mednafen. Nestopia can run them all fullspeed with Scale3X or the NTSC filter in high definition.

If I release a port of Nestopia for the Xbox, will it be the new "king on the block"? No. I will never add Light gun support, cheat searching, rumbles, Xport's video display system, etc.... I will likely never add the Madmab additions because it's not ethical. Unlike some, I don't thrive on stealing the best the community has to offer to inflate my ego. This is why I said it would "compliment" mednafen. It would give users more games in the end.

If people don't use it, that's ok too. This is all just for fun. I think people forget that and get too caught up in which emulator is the best, why doesn't emulator 1 have all the features of emulator 2 and vice versa.

As far as  other projects, I have no interest in:

N64 - The latest sources are allready ported on the Xbox.
Mugen - (I will never have interest in that)
MAME - (Never going to happen. I don't have a year of my life to devote to that. It would take a year to port it properlly)
PSX emulation - (the best avaialbe sources are allready ported to the Xbox)
Saturn - (It would only run at 10 FPS. What's the point? No-one would ever use it)
Atari Jaguar - (It would only run at 10 FPS. What's the point? No-one would ever use it)
3DO -  (It would only run at 10 FPS. What's the point? No-one would ever use it)
Changing the hardware of the Xbox to output a low resolution. Do you understand that could damage a user's Xbox and TV?



 

[waal]

Why Nestopia wouldn't support the No-Intro sets or any other collection ?
And I don't see how the Xtras' game selection can forbid to use Famicom/NES or alternative versions because they already include many. And if some were missing, then people could add them at will. They could even load their own dumps... We're not talking about "frozen" generated lists through datfiles like with FBL, Coinops, Mame or whatever arcade emu... We're not even talking of the content of these collections. You talk like people involved with xtras on various systems are not interested by the games themselves. In fact, they are. It's just they also wish to have the most complete retrogaming experience with adding informations and stuff. If it's not a priority regarding the current development then so be it.
And for your info, roms' CRC can be added to synopsis files wherever they come from. And those from No-Intro are already in.

But now we should talk about having the best NES emu on the XBOX and what it can offer. Because that's a very good news, because FDS games should work better, because colors will look better etc... I hope this port will be as good as ZsnesXbox.

I wished Magic Engine to be open source, too... Sadly it's not the case.

This post has been edited by waal: Yesterday, 12:59 AM

[madmab]

I'm a little confused about what all the concern is about.  An NES emulator is an NES emulator it's gonna support whatever ROMs you throw it's way.  Unlike FBALegens, or coinops which rely on specific ROM sets with specific CRC's.  The synopsis or the Xtra's have NOTHING to do with that.  They pretty much function like add-ons.

In fact the Synopsis can be edited to add in CRC's.  Like Nes6502 pointed out earlier in the thread (for those who bother reading).  The synopsis relies on the CRC so no matter WHAT the name of the ROM is the synopsis will recognize it.  Whether you use the Goodsets, the no-intro sets, the Tosec sets, or even the Xtra's.  If a CRC is not present all one needs to do is go in the synopsis and add it.  Piece of cake.

Adding in the synopsis and getting it working would probably be a 5-10 minute job for Nes6502.

It's not rocket science guys....      

[neoryu]

QUOTE(madmab @ Jan 28 2010, 08:06 PM)

I'm a little confused about what all the concern is about.  An NES emulator is an NES emulator it's gonna support whatever ROMs you throw it's way.  Unlike FBALegens, or coinops which rely on specific ROM sets with specific CRC's.  The synopsis or the Xtra's have NOTHING to do with that.  They pretty much function like add-ons.

In fact the Synopsis can be edited to add in CRC's.  Like Nes6502 pointed out earlier in the thread (for those who bother reading).  The synopsis relies on the CRC so no matter WHAT the name of the ROM is the synopsis will recognize it.  Whether you use the Goodsets, the no-intro sets, the Tosec sets, or even the Xtra's.  If a CRC is not present all one needs to do is go in the synopsis and add it.  Piece of cake.

Adding in the synopsis and getting it working would probably be a 5-10 minute job for Nes6502.

It's not rocket science guys....      

Thanks madmab.  This cleared up the one reservation I had about importing the code.  No problems here.

[waal]

And I think PC Engine would deserve a better sound emulation on XBOX.

[XTecuterX73]

QUOTE(madmab @ Jan 28 2010, 08:06 PM)

I'm a little confused about what all the concern is about.  An NES emulator is an NES emulator it's gonna support whatever ROMs you throw it's way.  Unlike FBALegens, or coinops which rely on specific ROM sets with specific CRC's.  The synopsis or the Xtra's have NOTHING to do with that.  They pretty much function like add-ons.

In fact the Synopsis can be edited to add in CRC's.  Like Nes6502 pointed out earlier in the thread (for those who bother reading).  The synopsis relies on the CRC so no matter WHAT the name of the ROM is the synopsis will recognize it.  Whether you use the Goodsets, the no-intro sets, the Tosec sets, or even the Xtra's.  If a CRC is not present all one needs to do is go in the synopsis and add it.  Piece of cake.

Adding in the synopsis and getting it working would probably be a 5-10 minute job for Nes6502.

It's not rocket science guys....      

you guys are making madmab mad lmao just kidding  

[waal]

QUOTE(neoryu @ Jan 29 2010, 02:17 AM)

Thanks madmab.  This cleared up the one reservation I had about importing the code.  No problems here.

Already told ya about the file selection and the synopsis.

[cbagy]

For me the way NES6502 built FBL seemed the way to go.
Its accurate and allowed for other features.
Easily re-skinned, add your own videos and/or screenshots etc.
Not bogged down with useless novelty features.
Oh did i mention it plays games pretty well.
Looks good, plays good. What more do you want.

PS. I don't even play the NES so my opinion is pretty redundant
as another quality emulator won't make me like the games.


Damn no edit feature  

PSS. Any port's have to be healthy for the scene. Choice is good.

[madmab]

Novelty features?  Just how does a feature that YOU happen to not like bog down an emulator?

You people never cease to dissapoint me..  

If you don't like the damn feature then just don't use it and shut your yap about it.  It's not gonna kill you if it is there..

You rail on other people about suggesting features because you just don't happen to like them.  Yet have no problem railing on the people who make those features for making them.  Talk about a double standard.

Never have I heard a bunch of whiners in my life...

sheesh..