Topic: Zsnexbox 2.99b2 (Read 481 times)

AtomicShroom · « **Reply #30 on:** February 01, 2007, 07:58:00 PM »

QUOTE(enderandrew @ Feb 1 2007, 07:50 PM)

Actually a dev with tech specs and a dev kit insists it can't display below 480i. You insist based solely on your opinion of how the picture looks that it is 240i.

I think your eyes don't trump a dev kit and official specs. I think that is pretty ridiculous. Until you can get proof that the Wii can do 240 lines natively, we should stop yammering about it.

Well that dev is wrong and/or his tech specs are incomplete or inaccurate. Or Nintendo decided that only them would be able to use 240p and lock devs out of using it. You should get a Wii and see for yourself. It really does output 240p. So much that some newer TVs in Europe are unable to display Virtual Console games, because they don't understand the weird-ass signal that is being sent to them.

See here, for example: http://www.rllmukfor...p;mode=threaded

dre74 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 01, 2007, 08:42:00 PM »

This is homebrew emulation it is not suppose to be exact if you want exact then play your snes or what ever older console you want. Nes has put a lot of time and effort for free so that you can enjoy old school games on your xbox, so enjoy them even if it isn't perfect.

-{TETSUO}- · « **Reply #32 on:** February 02, 2007, 02:05:00 AM »

Finally discovered this wonderful emulator last night. It is very polished and obviously has had a lot of work poured into it.
My only problem is Yoshi's Island is refusing to boot. It works under xsnes9x but not zsnexbox.
Do I need to play with the myriad of settings to get it to boot or is it a lost cause at the moment?

Andrew_Roy · « **Reply #33 on:** February 02, 2007, 04:15:00 AM »

QUOTE(enderandrew @ Feb 2 2007, 01:50 AM)

Actually a dev with tech specs and a dev kit insists it can't display below 480i. You insist based solely on your opinion of how the picture looks that it is 240i.

I think your eyes don't trump a dev kit and official specs. I think that is pretty ridiculous. Until you can get proof that the Wii can do 240 lines natively, we should stop yammering about it.

Well, what dev are you talking about? Is it the one that from the last thread who said he was a dev? Because if that's who you're talking about, the only proof that he is a dev that I've seen is him claiming to be one.

Now granted this is not absolute proof and I do not have the means to prove it myself but besides all of the PAL people having problems, this guy also seems pretty convinced about what the wii can do.

http://222b.livejour...com/144560.html

nes6502 · « **Reply #34 on:** February 02, 2007, 05:19:00 AM »

QUOTE(-{TETSUO}- @ Feb 2 2007, 10:12 AM)

Finally discovered this wonderful emulator last night. It is very polished and obviously has had a lot of work poured into it.
My only problem is Yoshi's Island is refusing to boot. It works under xsnes9x but not zsnexbox.
Do I need to play with the myriad of settings to get it to boot or is it a lost cause at the moment?

Yoshi's Island plays perfetly with no special settings. Sounds like you have a corrupt rom or it doesn'tt have a file extension (ZsnexBox only supports games with proper file extensions). What exactly happens when you run the game? Have you verified it's a good ROM? All my versions of Yoshi's Island work flawlessly.

devlkore · « **Reply #35 on:** February 02, 2007, 11:57:00 AM »

QUOTE(Nemo1985X @ Feb 2 2007, 01:26 PM)

If the image is in color & fits within the bounds of my monitor... I'm happy

I second that, screw perfect original resolution output, I prefer the filtered classiness of the Xbox emus, the only option I wish was in all of 'em was original aspect ratio lock.

LA!

Your mums.

enderandrew · « **Reply #36 on:** February 02, 2007, 01:58:00 PM »

QUOTE(AtomicShroom @ Feb 2 2007, 04:05 AM)

Well that dev is wrong and/or his tech specs are incomplete or inaccurate. Or Nintendo decided that only them would be able to use 240p and lock devs out of using it. You should get a Wii and see for yourself. It really does output 240p. So much that some newer TVs in Europe are unable to display Virtual Console games, because they don't understand the weird-ass signal that is being sent to them.

See here, for example: http://www.rllmukfor...p;mode=threaded

That thread has no proof about native 240i resolutions. It says that upscaling a Wii signal can cause problems. Those are apples and oranges.

neoryu · « **Reply #37 on:** February 03, 2007, 07:42:00 PM »

You mean to tell me I can't run this emu of a DVD? My PC ethernet port is busted and I am loading emus off DVD's at the moment. Can it be done with this one?

nes6502 · « **Reply #38 on:** February 03, 2007, 08:23:00 PM »

QUOTE(neoryu @ Feb 4 2007, 03:49 AM)

You mean to tell me I can't run this emu of a DVD?

Please take the time to actually read the release notes that come with the emulator or at least read the thread (i.e. this one) that you are responding to.

QUOTE

If you want to run from the DVD, then you must edit the Path.ini to reflect where on your Xbox the needed directories are. They MUST exist on your Xbox (i.e. you must create them) or ZsnexBox will hang when it loads.

neoryu · « **Reply #39 on:** February 04, 2007, 09:24:00 AM »

Sorry for the STUPID question nes6502. I typed that after reading only a few sentences in the topic- a kneejerk reaction. You have done great work on this emu and your previous releases were already too good.

nes6502 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 04, 2007, 12:47:00 PM »

QUOTE(neoryu @ Feb 4 2007, 05:31 PM)

Sorry for the STUPID question nes6502. I typed that after reading only a few sentences in the topic- a kneejerk reaction. You have done great work on this emu and your previous releases were already too good.

No problem and thanks. Glad you like the emulator.

nes6502 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 05, 2007, 08:22:00 AM »

QUOTE(bd2003 @ Feb 5 2007, 04:09 PM)

Any chance the controller lag will be fixed?

I saw this issue was previously discussed, but was generally ignored as being in the user's head. But it isnt. It's a real problem, that is there in all games, but far more noticible in some than others. SMW, and tetris attack are much more difficult to play as a result.

Setting up the three side by side in SMW, the snes was dead on, snes9x had a bit of lag, and zsnes had noticible lag. (100-200ms maybe).

My guess as to the source of it is a combination of analog buttons, controller polling, and buffering settings.

If znexbox uses triple buffering, thats the immediate culprit. Double buffering still gives a wee bit of lag - the only sure fire fix would be to give an option to disable vsync. I'd imagine it's fairly easy - it's in the PC version, and it could even be just an .ini setting, but I'd take a little bit of tearing over the controller lag.

There could also be an issue with having to push the analog buttons ALL the way in, or the rate at which input is checked.

As I've said numerous times before:

"Until someone provides me with a direct comparison between the same game using the PC version and Xbox version, then there is nothing to fix".

I also offered a beta version to any that wanted to test a few weeks ago (with instructions using previous versions of ZsnexBox), and noone took me up on it. People just seem content on saying it "feels" this way or the other yet they provide ZERO evidence or game comparisons between the PC and Xbox version.

You can say it "feels" laggy, sluggish, unresponsive all you like, but please keep this in mind.

I don't see ANY of this. Game responses are instant for me in all games. So as far as I'm concerned (and until someone provides some actual game PC/Xbox comparisons) it's all in your mind and currently working as perfect as it could be.

Not trying to sound harsh, but I can't fix a problem that to me doesn't exist.

nes6502 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 05, 2007, 09:20:00 AM »

QUOTE(bd2003 @ Feb 5 2007, 04:49 PM)

Isnt that what I just did though? The lag is nonexistent on a real snes, as well as the PC zsnes with v-sync disabled. Which is why I'm curious as to the type of buffering zsnexbox is using - the lag on the pc version with triple buffering enabled is pretty much exactly the same as the xbox version.

For what its worth, I'm willing to personally test anything you can come up with in order to fix it - it's really spoiling my enjoyment of certain games that absolutely rely on perfect timing. I guarantee you this is not in my head. The lag is very small, but its enough to throw you off, yet go unnoticible by those who arent familar with *exactly* how the snes responded - it seems more important to me to absolutely 100% nail the emulation before working on extraneous features like music players/skins.

So, on the PC version the only way to eliminate the lag is to disable Vsync (i.e. the lag is present on the PC version)? Do any of the other options affect it?

nes6502 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 05, 2007, 10:04:00 AM »

QUOTE(bd2003 @ Feb 5 2007, 05:30 PM)

I havent tested it with double buffering, as I usually game with vsync off, but triple buffering introduces a lag in zsnes, as it does in *any* application that uses it. It's just a problem inherent in drawing three frames ahead - the response to any input will always be three frames behind.

I'd imagine introducing an .ini option to disable vsync would be trivial. If you could do that, I could certainly test it and let you know the results.

What kind of buffering does zsnexbox use? Double or triple?

Double buffering with Vsync. PM me your contact information.

nes6502 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 05, 2007, 02:25:00 PM »

QUOTE(bd2003 @ Feb 5 2007, 10:14 PM)

Alright, I'll be awaiting your response.

The double buffering/v-sync should cause a small amount of lag - I'm unfamiliar with how the original SNES output is, but if it does not use double buffering in the same way, that could be one source of lag.

There is also the analog threshold issue - the original snes buttons had very little travel and resistance, and felt digital, whereas the xbox controller is analog and mushy. I'd think it'd be best to set the threshold a hair above null, so the input is caught asap.

And at 60fps, the controller should be polled at least once every 16ms.

I'm also unsure as to where the input code lies in the zsnes codepath, but it seems to me if it's anywhere but the very front it's probably not in the most optimal place.

Unless there are any other steps between the zsnes code and the display, I can't see where else there is a problem.

I know you can't see this difference, but trust me, this is not in my head. I would like to see this fixed so badly. LMK whatever else I can do.

The input code polls every 1ms. It was set at 8ms until 2.99b2. Also, the buttons are allready at the tightest threshold to avoid picking up crosstalk from other buttons. I go any lower, and when a user presses "X" it could register "X", "Y" and "A", etc....

The Xbox controller requires you to push the buttons 1/3 to halfway down before it sends a "button pressed" messge (which is what all my Xbox controllers do), and I can't do anything about that.

I could try turning off Vsync but I suspect that will provide a lot of ugly tearing.

Author Topic: Zsnexbox 2.99b2 (Read 481 times)