Print

[Cospefogo]

QUOTE(blargg @ Oct 6 2006, 01:47 PM)

Sure, you'd use point filtering if you're rescaling from 256x223 to 512x446. But if you need to scale to say 581x446, then you'd want to use linear interpolation, which the Xbox should be able to do in hardware. I've never seen this emulator on an Xbox, but I take it that displaying the SNES image as 512x446 results in an image that's not as wide as the SNES would appear when connected to the same TV.

Here's another page I found about getting texels to match up with pixels on screen:

Directly Mapping Texels to Pixels

Thanks Bleargh!
Yes, I am in full agreement with your shiny words! Perfect.
Exactly what happened to me on the first time I adjusted my MednafenX NES.

I double the resolution to 512x448, but despite of the correct size, the screen had
yet 2 single columns and two single rows where it was possible to see the distortion.
Then, by simple inspiration, I resized to 511, and then to 510, and then to 447, and 446
and BINGO. The screat was NEAT and perfect.

BUT --- It was not wide as my original Famicom console.
So I kept trying to increase the horizontal size and for my surprise, when I reached the
640, I got the same result as 512. Just made the MINUS2 trick and BINGO again.
Emulator wide as the original NES, matter of fact, a little more wider.
So I played with the positioning and my screen was adjusted at my taste.
Of course that the TV crops a little on left and right, but as I use to say,
they are "dead area", or overscan areas (don't know if it is a correct term to call!)
They key is --- To not need interpolation, you must be AT 510 (512) or 638 (640).
Or one, or another. No other sizes will work.

Getting back to Zsnexbox --- I really would like to be talking here with solid
numbers as I do for Xport, but I can't. I just can assure you that I found a exactly
horizontal point where the resolution (whatever the values could be) is perfect regarding
no distortion and wide in full horizontal screen. No interpolation needed.

Maybe this is the "second point" (the 638 point) that I found on MednafenX NES.

Thanks for the technical document!
I like to read about this subject!!

Cheers,
C.

[Timerever]

QUOTE(blargg @ Oct 6 2006, 05:58 PM)

Bzzzt! There is no such thing as an NTSC pixel. The only "quantized" aspect of an NTSC signal is a scanline.

My bad explaining, what I meant is that there's a menu item in Photoshop with pixel ratio presets and you can choose one of these to work with. If you create a 200x200 rectangle and then choose a pixel ratio from the menu this square will deform, I assume that Adobe knows what they're doing and these values are correct but then again they've done Illustrator so...

QUOTE(Consoleman! @ Oct 6 2006, 03:59 PM)

The bottom line is that XY coords remains a legitimate request and I'm really growing tired of defending it.

I want it too, did I ever said I didn't?

QUOTE(Cospefogo @ Oct 6 2006, 07:05 PM)

BUT --- It was not wide as my original Famicom console.
So I kept trying to increase the horizontal size and for my surprise, when I reached the
640, I got the same result as 512. Just made the MINUS2 trick and BINGO again.

But that's far more wider than what a real SNES would do, that's how Mega Drive does it and that's the right way to do it AFAIK, but in case you haven't noticed we are talking Nintendo here, and we all know what that means
A real SNES according to blargg is 585 square pixels wide, and you can't resize to this value without interpolation.


But this is getting old, I think this whole issue will fall into place once/if nes6502 adds the X/Y coordinates.

[Cospefogo]

QUOTE(Timerever @ Oct 6 2006, 02:14 PM)

But this is getting old, I think this whole issue will fall into place once/if nes6502 adds the X/Y coordinates.

Agreed!
I think everybody involved on the discussion have already found the
same consensus. Let wait for the new version!!

C.

[Timerever]

QUOTE(Cospefogo @ Oct 6 2006, 07:36 PM)

Agreed!
I think everybody involved on the discussion have already found the
same consensus. Let wait for the new version!!

C.

Providing that nes6502 adds it, he may have been put off by this whole mess
Looking from far to this whole thing, what was supposed to be a simple thing exploded into a big mess involving a bunch of persons and I think this got into this ball of comments simply because we've put Point Filtering resizing, correct aspect ratio and X/Y coordinates into the same boat when they shouldn't be.

- X/Y coordinates are the base to knowing what and how it's bieng displayed on screen
- Point Filtering resizing and correct aspect ratio are simply two methods of displaying the game: one gives sharp pixels the other good aspect ratio.

I for one blame Nintendo for using these wierd resolutions in the first place.

[blargg]

QUOTE(Timerever)

A real SNES according to blargg is 585 square pixels wide, and you can't resize to this value without interpolation.

Argh! A SNES displays 256x223 SNES pixels. SNES pixels are not square. When you say the SNES is 585 pixels wide, whose pixels are you referring to? If you mean "On a system with square pixels, the SNES image should be about 585 pixels wide if it's 446 pixels tall", then fine, otherwise, it's meaningless and just confusing!

Let's say you meant on a system with square pixels and with the image doubled vertically. Has anyone tested whether Xbox pixels are square (at least in the 640x480 mode)? Endless speculation cannot replace actual testing.

QUOTE(Timerever)

I for one blame Nintendo for using these wierd resolutions in the first place.

There's nothing weird about the resolutions, since they're all arbitrary. The SNES horizontal resolution is based on the CPU clock. Other systems that had narrower pixels had awful artifacts because they didn't alter the colorburst phase on each scanline (compare the SMS and even Sega Genesis to a SNES and it has nasty artifacts, columns that are wider than others).

[Khenemet_Heru]

Nes6502, thanks for an awesome emulator! And Neverwill for the art, it's all beautiful!

For my needs, however I was inclined to a more basic, streamlined look, so after much plugging around and whatnot I got a skin together for v2.98. It's a more generic skin, no characters or anything but sleek and sexy, I think. I'd like to upload it for everyone to check out, but before I do, I need to get a guipreview.png of it made, and I don't know how to do that. Any tips? Also, do I post the zip here in the forums or where's your preference?

Not bad for a first post, huh?

I await...
Shadowhawk

[XaRaNn]

QUOTE(Timerever @ Oct 6 2006, 01:41 PM)

Providing that nes6502 adds it, he may have been put off by this whole mess
Looking from far to this whole thing, what was supposed to be a simple thing exploded into a big mess involving a bunch of persons

I, for one, think this is all very constructive, i have and still am trying to learn more, even tho it is all very confusing, with the SNES having non-square pixels, and the possibility that the xbox also has its own, differently-sized, non-square pixels.

Thanks to your initiave we now have an expert on the subject willing to help, and i do sure hope nes6502 doesn't take any of this personally or as any kind of attack against what Zsnexbox is already doing, and instead sees it for what i consider it is, some fans of the SNES, of Zsnes, of the Xbox, and of the software that combines all 3 together, Zsnexbox, trying to get the most out of the emulation experience.

[Mclane]

QUOTE(xystus @ Oct 5 2006, 10:06 PM)

U serious? Shame on you, spoiled lazy fart!

Erm...

Is your Xbox linked to the PC all the time?

Mine isn't, so it's an arse to trawl it in thru the front room to here just to delete 1 file.

Ok, I have a file manager program on the Xbox so I can do it in situ but others may not so its not such a bad idea.

Sooo...nerr....

Edit:...Just saw Nes said no....oh well

[Mclane]

QUOTE(XaRaNn @ Oct 7 2006, 06:42 AM)

Thanks to your initiave we now have an expert on the subject willing to help, and i do sure hope nes6502 doesn't take any of this personally or as any kind of attack against what Zsnexbox is already doing, and instead sees it for what i consider it is, some fans of the SNES, of Zsnes, of the Xbox, and of the software that combines all 3 together, Zsnexbox, trying to get the most out of the emulation experience.

Well said...

Regardless of whether Nes can / wants to or can't add such features I applaud what's been done so far.

I personally would prefer work to be focused on the core side so it's brought more into line with the emulation standards of the PC build - working games wins over visual candy at the moment in my book. Once the build is up to date then I'm sure Nes would look towards the more 'correct' screen handling.

Lastly, lets not forget that all this is done in 'free' time in every sense of the word.

[XaRaNn]

QUOTE(Mclane @ Oct 7 2006, 08:10 AM)

Well said...

Regardless of whether Nes can / wants to or can't add such features I applaud what's been done so far.

I personally would prefer work to be focused on the core side so it's brought more into line with the emulation standards of the PC build - working games wins over visual candy at the moment in my book. Once the build is up to date then I'm sure Nes would look towards the more 'correct' screen handling.

Lastly, lets not forget that all this is done in 'free' time in every sense of the word.

AFAIK, from the latest plan Nes gave us, multicore will be coming with 3.0, wich will come after all UI features are added and finalized. Wich is why if some things are to change, it's now or never.

[nes6502]

When I start multi-core that means ZsnexBox is in "feature lock".

Also, don't all dashboards have a file browser (that let you copy, delete, rename files)?

[Mclane]

QUOTE(XaRaNn @ Oct 7 2006, 02:06 PM)

AFAIK, from the latest plan Nes gave us, multicore will be coming with 3.0, wich will come after all UI features are added and finalized. Wich is why if some things are to change, it's now or never.

Okey dokey..

Seems a long way around for me as the multitude of posts re opinions of the 'true' aspect ratio seem to indicate it could take a long time to finalise it?

Having said that I have not followed the messages regarding that fearure 100% so it may have been decided?

QUOTE(nes6502 @ Oct 7 2006, 02:21 PM)

When I start multi-core that means ZsnexBox is in "feature lock".

Fair enough, hopefully the aspect / screen mode thing gets sorted out soonish as it seems a shame to be missing out on working emualtion for important but not world ending visual candy.

That said, it's none of my business

QUOTE(nes6502 @ Oct 7 2006, 02:21 PM)

Also, don't all dashboards have a file browser (that let you copy, delete, rename files)?

Not sure, never ventured much beyond the original daddy of dashboards myself but I think I saw one in Avalaunch so it's entirely possible.

[devlkore]

I used the emu last night for the first time and I love it.

Rumble, mmm...

I set up damage rumbles for Gundam Wing Endless Duel, OH YEAH!


I can't say enough praises, I'd have your baby, but I'd get arrested







 

[Mclane]

QUOTE(devlkore @ Oct 7 2006, 03:31 PM)

I'd have your baby, but I'd get arrested
 

There's a another reason to avoid Margate

[jcautela]

Hello,

Nes since I got my light gun working in game I tested the games out and all but 2 worked perfectly (yoshi, battle clash, the others).


Tin Star works fine when controller type and lightgun type are set to a joypad, but when lightgun is set for both (superscope option/using a lightgun) it will not pass the games built-in calibration screen with the lightgun trigger or any buttons on light gun.

With a controller the game does not even display the light gun calibration screen and just goes to the main menu; it plays fine with a controller.

Red Star only works with a controller and the emu set to use a controller.  When set to lightgun in zsnexbox nothing happens at the game's main menu; it doesn't detect the lightgun.

Try it for yourself and see they seem to have an emulation problem.

Thanks.