Print

[XaRaNn]

Well it's just none of it match what i've read.

Checking the documention for the NTSC filer itself, nowhere is 597 mentionned

QUOTE

The library's horizontal rescaling is too wide by about 3% in order to
allow a much more optimal implementation. This means that a 256 pixel wide
console image should appear as 581 output pixels, but with this library
appears as 602 output pixels. TV aspect ratios probably vary by this much
anyway. If you really need unscaled output, contact me and I'll see about
adding it.

This would seem to suggest that there is no such "SNES tv encoder", and that the TV does take care of the scaling, wich can vary from set to set.

I'm really starting to think that the doubling zsnexbox uses (when drawing unresized blue lines on calibration screen) is probably already the most optimal way to do it.
A plausible explanation for the shimmering would be that the pixel scanlines from the emulated texture do not necessarly match the ones on your television (wich they would if the TV was doing the scaling from the 256x224 output from a real SNES).
Cospefogo already has been able to come up with a way that shows no shimmering on his set, i'm guessing the only way for others to also achieve it is to NOT resize the zsnexbox screen from default, and move it pixel by pixel till you endup with your pixel line right on your tv scanline, then it would look at good as it can.

But like i said were mostly amateurs trying to scrounge up data we do not know much about. Having someone that really understand the underlying technology for our specific case is probably the only way to come up with a clear answer.

[Cospefogo]

QUOTE(XaRaNn @ Oct 4 2006, 06:41 AM)

(...) Cospefogo already has been able to come up with a way that shows no shimmering on his set, i'm guessing the only way for others to also achieve it is to NOT resize the zsnexbox screen from default, and move it pixel by pixel till you endup with your pixel line right on your tv scanline, then it would look at good as it can.

But like i said were mostly amateurs trying to scrounge up data we do not know much about. Having someone that really understand the underlying technology for our specific case is probably the only way to come up with a clear answer.

Thanks XaRaNn for remembering me. I agree in part with your afirmation.
In Xport rsizement sytem, there is no need to go pixel by pixel since we found
a simple way to achieve a correct size adjustment (the minus 2 trick).
This works for any television (CRT only --- I have no access to HDTV, Plasma and LCD monitors)

So, by using the Xport system of coordinates, in 10 seconds you get correct
double size for NES, PCE, SEGA GENESIS, PSX, ATARI, GBA, MASTER SYSTEM and
this coordinates are perfectly usable anywhere, anytime.

They worked on any CRT television I have tried (two models down in my house,
and some in my friends house). XaRaNn, did you try my Zsnexnbox settings on your television?
I am curious to check if my coordinates can work in YOUR television...

If possible, give it a try!

Hardware: Point
Software: Simple 2X
X: -1,599999
Y: -0.640000
Width: 642.449999
Height: 481.140000

Play Sonic Wings. Pay attention to the moving background.
Play on several levels (just restart game and pick other chars)

Now, rezise the height to something else, increase or decrease a little,
something like H: 480.80000 or 481.920000...

Play Sonic Wings again, and make a comparison
between the two settings, taking the moving background as reference.

Cheers,
C.

[Consoleman!]

QUOTE(Timerever @ Oct 4 2006, 03:55 AM)

D'oh, I've 'pseudo' did, byuu is an expert and his emu resolution resolution is 298x224 (597(6)x448). Anyway when/if nes6502 adds meaningfull X/Y coordinates setting the correct aspect ratio will be up to you, if you have doubts you can still scale SNES picture with your own values.
About the 240 lines games I asked someone who's knowlegable of emulation ans he said that it's very unlikely that there any game at all that uses 240, since I've never seen any too and consoleman! didn't specified any particular game that uses this resolution I assume that he misreaded that info somewhere/somehow.

298x224 on a TV screen would require a linear filter to blend the deformed pixels and would still experience shimmering since the pixels won't match up evenly with the scanlines.  Also, the power up boxes (perfect 16x16 pixel squares) in Super Mario Bros. would become rectangles at the 298x224 aspect ratio.  They'd end up 16% wider than they are tall.

What it really comes down to is individual preference.  While some may prefer 298x224 or their own linear resolution, others may prefer to match games up evenly to the scanlines with point filtering.  
To each his own.
The 256x240 number I threw out there was pulled from the SNES page at Wikipedia.  On the NES page however, it's noted that 256x240 wasn't really used for NTSC games (due to overscan), but apparently had an application for PAL games.  

Until we find a resource that confirms actual SNES resolutions used or find an efficient method for measuring game resolutions ourselves, my acting assumption is that they do exist.

I'm gonna grab a light gun for the Xbox.  Anyone have a suggestion?  The one I'm currently looking at is called the LCD TopGun, which works with both the PS2 and the Xbox.  

If only all light guns were of the same quality as the official Dreamcast gun.

[Retroplay]

QUOTE(nes6502 @ Oct 4 2006, 01:25 AM)

For lightgun support you have to set two options:

1) You have to change the controller type to "Super Scope". The default is "joypad".
2) You also have to change the Super Scope Control to "Xbox Lightgun". The default is "Xbox Controller"
You actually can leave them both at those settings and not have to switch ever. So, you don't have to switch the first one back to joypad if you don't want to. You can leave it set to "super scope" all the time. Then just turn the crosshair off. You controller will work for regular games and the Lightgun will work for super scope games.

I completely forgot to check both options, silly me  
Thanks nes.

[Timerever]

QUOTE(Consoleman! @ Oct 4 2006, 07:33 PM)

298x224 on a TV screen would require a linear filter to blend the deformed pixels and would still experience shimmering since the pixels won't match up evenly with the scanlines.  Also, the power up boxes (perfect 16x16 pixel squares) in Super Mario Bros. would become rectangles at the 298x224 aspect ratio.  They'd end up 16% wider than they are tall.

I've got the definitive anwser to this matter, but I won't be posting here, I've passed it directly to nes6502 along with the source from where I got it. He wll then decide what to do with it.

[Consoleman!]

QUOTE(Timerever @ Oct 5 2006, 04:16 AM)

I've got the definitive anwser to this matter, but I won't be posting here, I've passed it directly to nes6502 along with the source from where I got it. He wll then decide what to do with it.

Interesting, but I don't see the need to keep your idea hush-hush, Timerever.  We'll either share your preference for it or we won't, but there's no way of knowing until we actually know what your idea is.

[XaRaNn]

Well great Timrever, if this time you found out a definitive answer to how the signal is being processed on a actual SNES-480i TV system, and a way to effectively replicate this on an emulated system that can't output below 640x480, i sure would like to know and try to understand it, for curiosity's sake if nothing else.

[Sp3eD]

My lightgun that I ordered the day this came out (the same Madcatz one that Nes posted) should be here today so I will post impressions of hot 720p 4:3 forced sidebar action  

[Sp3eD]

Weird.  Gun controls fine through the menus and everything, however in ZsnexBox when I go into the gun calibration screen (test screen and I am running in 720p) the target cursor moves back and forth across the screen quite rapidly (obviously meaning I need to calibrate).  I press A and B to change the screen to the dark blue with the yellow duck, but that is as far as I get.  I press the trigger and nothing happens (and I have to restart the emu to get out).  Thinking it might be the 720p, I change to 480p.  Same thing.

I go into Xports Nes emu and try calibrating.  Same thing, but on his calibration screen I see cordinate numbers that go crazy whenever I point the gun at the TV (they say 0,0 when I am not).  Pulling the trigger does nothing.  I am getting Silent Scope right now to see if it is my guns problem.

TV's a Sony 34XBR960 CRT.

EDIT: I just tried 480i mode in Xports Nes emu and though I still can't get it to aim anywhere close to correct, I was at least able to get through the calibration menu's.  I think I am going to blame my TV on this one :-|

[OLDGAMER2006]

QUOTE(Sp3eD @ Oct 5 2006, 01:53 PM)

Weird.  Gun controls fine through the menus and everything, however in ZsnexBox when I go into the gun calibration screen (test screen and I am running in 720p) the target cursor moves back and forth across the screen quite rapidly (obviously meaning I need to calibrate).  I press A and B to change the screen to the dark blue with the yellow duck, but that is as far as I get.  I press the trigger and nothing happens (and I have to restart the emu to get out).  Thinking it might be the 720p, I change to 480p.  Same thing.

I go into Xports Nes emu and try calibrating.  Same thing, but on his calibration screen I see cordinate numbers that go crazy whenever I point the gun at the TV (they say 0,0 when I am not).  Pulling the trigger does nothing.  I am getting Silent Scope right now to see if it is my guns problem.

TV's a Sony 34XBR960 CRT.

EDIT: I just tried 480i mode in Xports Nes emu and though I still can't get it to aim anywhere close to correct, I was at least able to get through the calibration menu's.  I think I am going to blame my TV on this one :-|

I also have the same exact problem with the lightgun games. I have a madkatz gun also.

[nes6502]

QUOTE(Sp3eD @ Oct 5 2006, 06:53 PM)

Weird.  Gun controls fine through the menus and everything, however in ZsnexBox when I go into the gun calibration screen (test screen and I am running in 720p) the target cursor moves back and forth across the screen quite rapidly (obviously meaning I need to calibrate).  I press A and B to change the screen to the dark blue with the yellow duck, but that is as far as I get.  I press the trigger and nothing happens (and I have to restart the emu to get out).  Thinking it might be the 720p, I change to 480p.  Same thing.

I go into Xports Nes emu and try calibrating.  Same thing, but on his calibration screen I see cordinate numbers that go crazy whenever I point the gun at the TV (they say 0,0 when I am not).  Pulling the trigger does nothing.  I am getting Silent Scope right now to see if it is my guns problem.

TV's a Sony 34XBR960 CRT.

EDIT: I just tried 480i mode in Xports Nes emu and though I still can't get it to aim anywhere close to correct, I was at least able to get through the calibration menu's.  I think I am going to blame my TV on this one :-|

You press Y on the gun or on your controller in port 1 to exit. Is the Lightgun in port 2-4 and a controller in port 1? If you aim at the TV and pull the trigger, the screen should flash and read where on the screen you hit it. Maybe your TV is not reflecting the signal back for some reason, or maybe there is a problem with the Lightgun (what it sounds like)

Have you tried in 480i? That's the only mode I tested in.

[OLDGAMER2006]

QUOTE(nes6502 @ Oct 5 2006, 02:29 PM)

You press Y on the gun or on your controller in port 1 to exit. Is the Lightgun in port 2-4 and a controller in port 1? If you aim at the TV and pull the trigger, the screen should flash and read where on the screen you hit it. Maybe your TV is not reflecting the signal back for some reason, or maybe there is a problem with the Lightgun (what it sounds like)

Have you tried in 480i? That's the only mode I tested in.

I have tryed 1080i and 480i, both dont register anything when im trying to calbarate the gun i get stuck on the screen with the duck. ive tryed all the ports also.

[FireZtein]

I have kind of the same problem with mine lightgun, I have a Sharpshooter 2 from Joytech. When I saw that lightgun support was added for this emulator, I was thrilled to see if this emulator could calibrate my lightgun but sadly no.
First time I went in the calibration screen my crosshair jumps from one place to another on a horizontal line in the middle of the screen. But afterwards when I completed calibration, the crosshair only moves on a vertical line in the middle of the screen. It seems though to follow my movement uppwards and downwards, shooting seems to work perfect too.
I had the same problem a long time age with xsnes9x och the nes emulator and never really figured out what the real problem was.
I have two xbox, both with the 1.4 motherboard. I have tested my lightgun on a friends 1.6 xbox and it works flawless on the exact same tv as well. I read somewhere that the bios could have something to do with the problem, though have I tested several different bioses with no result. I would really appreciate if someone solved this problem. Thanks!

[OLDGAMER2006]

QUOTE(FireZtein @ Oct 5 2006, 02:44 PM)

I have kind of the same problem with mine lightgun, I have a Sharpshooter 2 from Joytech. When I saw that lightgun support was added for this emulator, I was thrilled to see if this emulator could calibrate my lightgun but sadly no.
First time I went in the calibration screen my crosshair jumps from one place to another on a horizontal line in the middle of the screen. But afterwards when I completed calibration, the crosshair only moves on a vertical line in the middle of the screen. It seems though to follow my movement uppwards and downwards, shooting seems to work perfect too.
I had the same problem a long time age with xsnes9x och the nes emulator and never really figured out what the real problem was.
I have two xbox, both with the 1.4 motherboard. I have tested my lightgun on a friends 1.6 xbox and it works flawless on the exact same tv as well. I read somewhere that the bios could have something to do with the problem, though have I tested several different bioses with no result. I would really appreciate if someone solved this problem. Thanks!

Whats wierd bout my problem this gun works with all the other emulators that have lightgun support.

[Sp3eD]

QUOTE(nes6502 @ Oct 5 2006, 07:29 PM)

You press Y on the gun or on your controller in port 1 to exit. Is the Lightgun in port 2-4 and a controller in port 1? If you aim at the TV and pull the trigger, the screen should flash and read where on the screen you hit it. Maybe your TV is not reflecting the signal back for some reason, or maybe there is a problem with the Lightgun (what it sounds like)

Have you tried in 480i? That's the only mode I tested in.

Once I get into the duck calibration screen none of the buttons on either of the controllers (normal in port 1 and gun in 2,3, or 4) work in 480p, 720p modes.  However, I did just try your emu in 480i and had similar luck as I did in Xports emu's (being that it gets through the calibration settings at least, but it still isn't aimming correctly).  I did just try a couple bits of trail and error and found out that 1080i does also indeed work though has the same symptoms of 480i.  Maybe a progressive scan issue.

However just to document exactly what I saw, after calibrating both 480i and 1080i the Y axis worked perfectly.  Odd thing was that when I aimmed steady at the screen (anywhere on it), while the Y axis stayed the same, the X axis in 480i mode went from the right side of the screen to the left side while 1080i went from left to right.  Fairly smoothly I might add.  This pattern repeated as long as I aimmed my gun steady.  When I moved it up or down a bit the curson started at its respective side of the screen and started the left to right (1080i) / right to left (480i) all over again.

Anyway, probably a bit to wordy, but that is what is happening

I don't have a normal 480i TV that I can test as of right now, so the TV being the problem still isn't out of the question.

TV / Xbox specs for referance:
Xbox :  version 1.1
Softmodded with Krayzie's Ndure ver. 1.1.1
Hard Drive upgraded (200 gig)
XBMC 2.0.0 T3CH (FAT version) as main dashboard

TV : Sony 34" XBR960
Xbox hooked through Component AV pack running 720p 95% of the time.

Hope this helps, and I will be more then willing to test any kind of fixes as well as any other 720p/1080i issues if nessisary.

Thanks!
      Sp3eD

QUOTE(OLDGAMER2006 @ Oct 5 2006, 08:01 PM)

Whats wierd bout my problem this gun works with all the other emulators that have lightgun support.

What emu's does it work flawlessly on?  I have only tried ZsnexBox and mednafenxNES version 8.  Did yours work with Xsnes9X?