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[nes6502]

QUOTE(hargle @ Sep 25 2006, 05:47 PM)

but that's not very good behaviour for a program to lock up because of a missing directory

It is if the missing folders are required for it to run.

QUOTE

I can see this as being a support headache until it's properly fixed.

There's nothing to fix.  ZsnexBox comes with everything needed for it to run including all directories, files, etc... If the user decides to change the Path.ini to point to some other location, it's their responsibility to make sure that other location "actually exists".

[Joshua Wood]

Much thanks for the custom saves paths. Can't wait for final!

[venis]

hello , im just starting out the emulator runs fine but i got a different question hopefully someone can help me out with: why is it that only certain roms will transfer to my xbox these ones will not for some reason  but my other ones will some examples of roms that will not transfer: 7th Saga, The (U) (!).smc
Adventures Of Batman & Robin, The (U).smc.
there is a whole lot more that wouldnt transfer but any help would be appreciated
thanks

[xystus]

QUOTE(venis @ Sep 27 2006, 09:33 PM)

hello , im just starting out the emulator runs fine but i got a different question hopefully someone can help me out with: why is it that only certain roms will transfer to my xbox these ones will not for some reason  but my other ones will some examples of roms that will not transfer: 7th Saga, The (U) (!).smc
Adventures Of Batman & Robin, The (U).smc.
there is a whole lot more that wouldnt transfer but any help would be appreciated
thanks

Delete the comma's. Then it should work fine.

have fun  

ps. check this as well, before asking any more questions:
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=524593

[venis]

ok you were right about the comma's but what about these names
90 Minutes - European Prime Goal (E) (!).smc
Addams Family - Puggsley's Scavenger Hunt (U).smc
Bass Masters Classic - Pro Edition (U).smc
Battletoads & Double Dragon - The Ultimate Team (U) (!).smc
those are still some more that wouldnt transfer, any ideas what is wrong with the names

[nes6502]

QUOTE(venis @ Sep 27 2006, 09:39 PM)

ok you were right about the comma's but what about these names
90 Minutes - European Prime Goal (E) (!).smc
Addams Family - Puggsley's Scavenger Hunt (U).smc
Bass Masters Classic - Pro Edition (U).smc
Battletoads & Double Dragon - The Ultimate Team (U) (!).smc
those are still some more that wouldnt transfer, any ideas what is wrong with the names

Run all your files through a FATX renamer before transferring them to the Xbox. It will remove illegal characters, shorten names that are too long, etc... There are several listed on the Xbox-scene Xbox tools page.

[lusal]

Your Xbox harddrive file structure format is "FATX"...as such there are file length limitations that must be adhered to.

My best advice to you is this:

Find a renaming program that will alter your "problem roms" names to a format that your xbox likes better.

Also, if memory serves, some dashboards employ an "auto-rename" function that do this for you auto-magically while you're transferring the roms over.  

I might me mistaken on this last point.  Feel free to correct me.

Good Luck!

edit:  Thanks for beating me to the punch, nes6502.  I hardly ever post and now you've made my most recent effort useless.  Why I oughtta!!!  ;-)

[Consoleman!]

As with Xport's emulators, Zsnexbox would benefit a great deal in the graphics department just by allowing the user to set the exact screen resolution.  The current screen res settings are too cryptic and don't state the actual screen resolution.

Since not every game uses the same resolution (Secret of Mana uses hi-res 512x224, for example), it would be useful to be able to customize the resolution on a game to game basis.  The simple way to implement this is to use a global\local setting, where the last accessed local setting defaults as the global setting.  Games that don't yet have a local setting would default to the current global setting.  From your experience with Xport's emus (and your own), I assume you understand how this works, nes.

The biggest reason behind setting the exact resolution is the ability to use Point Filtering.  This outputs the sharpest picture possible, which comes closest to mimicking the original SNES.  The other hardware filters have their uses, but they come at a cost of clarity.

Hardware\software filters would also benefit from a game to game setting as well, as some games don't display correctly with anything more exotic than simple2x, like the eyes on most of the Final Fantasy IV characters, for example.  Their eyes turn into hideous X's with the blending some of the more advanced software filters use.

Your project has really matured since it's humble beginning, nes.  Compared to the first release, the current release seems like another emulator entirely.  While Xport may be the king of the Xbox emu scene, you take the crown as the author most dedicated to perfecting his emulator.  I don't recall anyone updating their emulator with the regularity that you've updated ZsnexBox.

[nes6502]

QUOTE(Consoleman! @ Sep 27 2006, 11:51 PM)

As with Xport's emulators, Zsnexbox would benefit a great deal in the graphics department just by allowing the user to set the exact screen resolution.  The current screen res settings are too cryptic and don't state the actual screen resolution.

Since not every game uses the same resolution (Secret of Mana uses hi-res 512x224, for example), it would be useful to be able to customize the resolution on a game to game basis.  The simple way to implement this is to use a global\local setting, where the last accessed local setting defaults as the global setting.  Games that don't yet have a local setting would default to the current global setting.  From your experience with Xport's emus (and your own), I assume you understand how this works, nes.

The biggest reason behind setting the exact resolution is the ability to use Point Filtering.  This outputs the sharpest picture possible, which comes closest to mimicking the original SNES.  The other hardware filters have their uses, but they come at a cost of clarity.

Hardware\software filters would also benefit from a game to game setting as well, as some games don't display correctly with anything more exotic than simple2x, like the eyes on most of the Final Fantasy IV characters, for example.  Their eyes turn into hideous X's with the blending some of the more advanced software filters use.

Your project has really matured since it's humble beginning, nes.  Compared to the first release, the current release seems like another emulator entirely.  While Xport may be the king of the Xbox emu scene, you take the crown as the author most dedicated to perfecting his emulator.  I don't recall anyone updating their emulator with the regularity that you've updated ZsnexBox.

The screen is drawn to a texture in 3D space. It is not drawn in the context of pixel coordinates as a real SNES is. In fact, it's a 3D world with the camera locked in place and I draw this square (a 640x480 texture)right in front of the camera. On this square, I render the SNES image. If i wanted to, I could add a first person camera and you could move around this 3D world I've created and go behind the screen.

If you resize the texture where the red borders align along the edge of your TV, you will see the SNES rendered image at the original resolution times 2. In other words, 256x224 at 512x448 directly centered in the middle of a 640x480 texture. A real SNES (through the video hardware) could change the resolution of your TV to 256x224 so that is why it fills your entire TV screen. You can't do this on the Xbox. The best you can do is render to a texture and stretch it to fill your entire screen. If you play with it long enough, you can align the image to match up with the scanlines on your TV just as a real SNES would.

I can't make the Xbox render at 256x244. The "minimum" is 640x480. So there is no way for me to render at SNES resolutions to the screen. However, I can render at SNES resolutions to the texture, but there is no point really since, the I need the higher resolution texture for the filters (which double or quadruple the output).

So I render the 256x224 display to a 640x480 texture. The user can do what they want with that texture (resize, move, stretch, etcc..) to try and match up the individual lines with their TV scanlines. But that would be impossible for me to do since all TV's are different. I think you are getting confused and thinkin that other Xport emulators are literally rendering to the screen buffer at specific resolutions. They are not (at least I would assume that 99% are not). They are drawing to a Texture in 3D space and this texture is presented "in your face" to give the illusion that the actual tv pixels are being set directly at some specific resolution.

The numbers I display may be skewed in  what they say, but the underlying mechanics of presenting the screen are no different than Xport's emulators. So, unless I am corrected by another porter (Lantus, Xport, etc..), I am going to continue to assume I am correct, and that the way that is currently done is the best way that can be done.

The only thing that needs to be fixed is the X,Y coordinates displayed. But they are just numbers that don't really mean anything. You don't need my numbers to make a perfect screen. You just have align the image to match your tv scanlines as a real SNES would. If you don't know how a real SNES would render to your TV, then you're just guessing anyway. So, I would reccomend that people just try to make the image fill their screen and it will be about as good as it can be (and perhaps SNES perfect as is)

[Sp3eD]

QUOTE(nes6502 @ Sep 28 2006, 12:24 AM)

If i wanted to, I could add a first person camera and you could move around this 3D world I've created and go behind the screen.

 

New feature for 3.0 confirmed?  

[Consoleman!]

I appreciate the detailed response.  Although, explain this to me, nes:  If the XY coordinates are meaningless as you suggest, how come Point Filtering produces a sharper image than the other hardware filters, but only works properly at the exact XY coordinates in XPort's emulators?  Is it just a mere coincidence, that in some emulators, 256x224 (254x222) and 512x448 (510x446) produce pixel perfect images with no shimmering with Point Filtering enabled?  Set them up just one coordinate off and they'll shimmer because Point Filtering doesn't interpolate the uneven image the way linear filters do.  This also happens to be the main reason many of us prefer Point Filtering, because interpolation introduces an unnecessary layer of blurring that washes out fine details and makes text more difficult to read.

Is adding an XPort-like XY coordinate system all that unreasonable for the final version 3.0?  I consider myself a fairly bright lad, but I've followed your instructions and the "match up the color bars" system that's currently in place simply doesn't produce a pixel perfect image on my TV.  The image always shimmers and is nowhere close to the coordinates it should be at.  I know this for a fact because games running at 512x448 in XPort's emulators run off my screen vertically a slight amount (but perfect horizontally), whereas your color box system attempts to "fit" each game image entirely onto the viewable screen (red box), or suffers from significant clipping both vertically and horizontally (blue box).  These boxes certainly aren't the coordinates I need in order to run Point Filtering properly on my TV.  

As you said yourself, all TV's are different, so what good is a color bar system without XY coordinates if the physical alignment differs from set to set?

For those interested, here's a guide on how to set up some of XPort's emulators properly with Point Filtering:

http://forums.xbox-s...o...509410&st=0

[Timerever]

Oh yeah, yet another clueless 'emulation purist'...
Let's see I never had a SNES but I'll use a Megadrive as an example since it's more a less the same thing.
Even though I lost my MD a few years ago I still remember enough details to make you think twice before claiming accuracy:

- Back then I used to connect my MD to my TV with a RF unit, and the picture has quite blurry, much more than Xbox with whatnot filters, yet when I connected it to a new TV (this was 8 years ago) suddenly the picture was much less blurry even though I was using the exact same MD with the exact same RF unit! So... what's the 'correct' or 'pure' image? The blurry or the less blurry?

- Since I no longer have the MD I'll use the Xbox itself for an example now, when I play Xbox games on my TV (the 'new' one I used MD on the above sentence) I get a 'normal' picture, yet when I plug it to a new TV (this time a 16:9, 100Hz TV) I get a diferent picture, this one is even more sharp and the overall image 'feels' diferent probably because of the 100Hz. Again the correct one is elusive isn't it?

- You'll probably say that you are using the same TV to try both MD/SNES and the Xbox emulator, but still in that case the cables you are using both for Xbox and MD/SNES will be of influence. Also as nes6502 said the video modes are diferent, and so are the rendering methods. Plus and particulary in the case of MD the emulation core might not be accurate, Gens for one does a lot of things that a MD doesn't and produces extra artifacts. Every once in a while someone will popup on Kega forum claiming that Kega is doing something wrong because Gens shows that something in a diferent way and Steve's anwser is always the same: "Gens does it but a real MD doesn't".

- And finally keep in mind that these emulators were meant to be used with a monitor screen and not a TV, for example Gens brightens the Mega Drive pallete a bit because normally monitors are normally setup with less brightness than a TV.


Since I've only played MD on that first old TV that blured everything far too much I'm not getting lousy quality from my Xbox, I'm getting better quality even using anisotropic filtering + superscale2x and filcker filtering level 5! And I've set all these for a specific reason: anisotropic to prevent wierd scrolling background, filcker filter because I don't like flicker and spuerscale because I like shiny graphics
One thing that I don't advise is the soften option, that's too blurry, looks like that old TV over again, but then again in your 'purist' opinion I should activate it to get that good old XL blur of the old days


This was all to say to you and your 'oldskool' 'purist' friends that there's no way to ever recreate completely these consoles, it's a bummer but that's how stuff is. But it's also true that the coordinates on Zsnexbox are really wierd and if you use the blue/red guides to adjust your image you'll be left with either two large horzontal black bars on the left and right of the screen or with a image without black borders on the top and bottom of the screen that IMHO is incorrect aspect ratio. With a vertical resolution of 224 you should have black borders, yet the following the guides eliminates them.

[Consoleman!]

QUOTE(Timerever @ Sep 28 2006, 06:19 AM)

Oh yeah, yet another clueless 'emulation purist'...
Let's see I never had a SNES but I'll use a Megadrive as an example since it's more a less the same thing.
Even though I lost my MD a few years ago I still remember enough details to make you think twice before claiming accuracy
<snipped>

Timerever,

I'm just trying to contribute ideas to improve a project that I've contributed a bit toward since the beginning.  Since you're quick to bash and label me as "clueless," out of curiosity, what have you contributed toward nes' project exactly?  Like all ZsnexBox loving fanatics, I simply want to see ZsnexBox become the best it can be by the time it reaches 3.0.  nes knows this as well as the other posters who know me.

Visually, Point Filtering is an improvement over all of the Linear filters.  When enabled in XPort's emulators, the improvement is noticeable and significant.  The picture is more crisp, the colors are more vivid and the details are more clear.  It eliminates the washed out, muddy picture introduced by Linear filters at the expense of resolution flexibility.

The downside is that PF must be used at fixed multiples of the native resolution or else the image will suffer from shimmering.   Even though Linear filters help deal with the shimmering issue, they too suffer from some degree of shimmer when used with odd pixel dimensions.

For example, stage 1 of Goonies shimmers with Mednafenx unless you run the game at 512x448 (texture resolution).  The Linear filters help some by way of interpolation, but they don't completely correct the problem.  The only way to solve this is to set the game to run at a multiple of it's native resolution.  Now that the shimmer problem is solved, there's no reason to use the Linear filter because the image quality is improved with PF.  With aspect ratio accurate PF, you get a perfect picture with absolutely no shimmering.

I estimate that more time has and will be spent requesting\debating the merits of adding XY coordinates than the time it would take to actually implement it.  It's not a major feature whatsoever, but Point Filtering is essentially useless without it.

[Timerever]

QUOTE

A real SNES (through the video hardware) could change the resolution of your TV to 256x224 so that is why it fills your entire TV screen.

I don't think TV, or at least TV from back then, can change resolutions. What a SNES does is tell the TV to draw 224 lines in even mode I think, so the TV draws:
on the first 16 lines draws nothing (no signal/black)
on line 17 game image line 1
on line 18 a black line (no signal/black, aka scanline)
on line 19 game image line 2
on line 20 a black line (no signal/black, aka scanline)
...
and so on until line 225, than it draw more 16 empty lines.

I don't know if I have the correct figures but it's something along these lines, add or take one line number. So a SNES essencially runs on 224p (224 lines, progressive mode) pseudo-resolution.
The 256 horizontal lines are stretched to fit the display since on a TV the pixels can be rectangular, it's a normal thing used even today, for example on HDTV with 1024x768 resolutions, these HDTVs squash the 1280 horizontal lines into 1024 and are still consdered HD because they have enough vertical lines, regardless of the shape of the horizontal lines.

This all again to say that even if you align everything right you'll still need a software image filter to add the scanlines (since the xbox can't do 224p) and hope that everything just falls into place, that includes matching these first 16 black lines, a hard task since they're... black. That's where the X/Y may help but you can never be too sure that there are indeed exactly 16 black lines on each border.
And when you finally do it will then ruin the SNES hi-res mode, aka 448i, since that mode obviously doesn't have scanlines, all lines even and odd are filled with game image with exceptionof the first and last 16 lines (the borders).
This all is too much trouble IMHO for so little reward.

EDIT: I think this info is right, if there's a passing-by TV signal guru that care to correct anything that I may have got wrong please do so. Thanks in advance.

[Cospefogo]

QUOTE(Consoleman! @ Sep 27 2006, 07:51 PM)

(...) The biggest reason behind setting the exact resolution is the ability to use Point Filtering.  This outputs the sharpest picture possible, which comes closest to mimicking the original SNES.  The other hardware filters have their uses, but they come at a cost of clarity.

Hardware\software filters would also benefit from a game to game setting as well, as some games don't display correctly with anything more exotic than simple2x, like the eyes on most of the Final Fantasy IV characters, for example.  Their eyes turn into hideous X's with the blending some of the more advanced software filters use. (...)

Whoa!
For God's sake, this have been my preach since the first minute I did play a emulator
on Xbox. There are personas who will really give a sh*t for everything I will speak
on my post, but on other hand, I know that there are few lunatics like me out there
who will be active on support (example, mister Consoleman!)

I am videogame collector and enthusiast since my childhood. I am also a pixelart artist
and do that for living (www.pixeltemple.com). Reaching the best fidelity pissible on screen
to the original machines is my goal  on life (well, at least on my Xbox Player life...)

After several tries (and help from few comrades) I was able to reach fascinating results,
at least for MY EYES and MY CRT television while using Xport Emulators.

The BIG issue is --- When you adjust the emulator screen on you television/monitor
you *must* repect the correct pixel/aspect ratio. If the image is composed by 224 pixels
vertically, you will need to double it to 448, there is NO OTHER WAY - pixels are PERFECT SQUARES
and they must be kept as PERFECT SQUARES.

The actual technology on emulators permit us to simple resize the screen to the any
size we may desire --- AND HERE ENTERS the FILTERS --- they mask the distortions
and "polish/clean" that OLD and UGLY pixelated screen.

Yes, the majority of emulator players DON'T LIKE the original screens resolutions.
Everybody nowadays prefer blurred and filtered screens. Some people by real choice,
other people due to their ultra modern televisions and monitors who could display
horrible graphics without the filters. I am tired to listen to people saying --- Oh,
what horrible "squared and pixelated" graphics!!! They are old, they are ugly, etc etc.

Some tricks can give us ALMOST the perfect MIMIC SCREEN. I have been writing
a lot of topics about it, and I am pretty satisfied to the actual configuration of all
my emulators.

Despite of all technical information said by many, you can get a FANTASTIC
PIXELATED screen on your Xport emulators (and of course in Zsnexbox too)
by using some patience, and of course a CRT television.

LCD monitors will ever apply blur on any emulators, due tho their native
sizes (number of pixels horizontally and vertically). You guys who have a
ultra modern LCD television, plug a CLASSIC SNES console and check
by yourselves --- there are interpolation on image, even on a classic
and original hardware.

Where I want to go?
I want to defend the idea that yes --- Correctly resizing of screen and
a tricky combination of filters/video hardware can YES give you
awesome results that are 99% in fidelity with the original consoles.

Why am I writing this here on this topic?
It's just because it could be marvelous to have the same kind of
screen measurement on Zsnexbox Final just like we have on Xport emulators.
(This is the second time I ask for this...) At the moment, my Zsnexbox is
perfectly adjusted to my tastes --- But I took a LOT of time playing with
screenresize feature, and the actual coordinates and the adjustment pattern
did not helped so much. I made everything by "eye".

One tip - Open Mario All Stars. On the select game menu, pay attention
on the ARROW on top, the yellow/orange arrow. The outline (black pixels)
must be in a perfect diagonal shape (like the hills on the Super Mario Bros
screens below.) With the actual resizing method, it's a pain to reach that!

Topic where I have made VIDEO and PICTURES of my Xport tests
http://forums.xbox-s...hlight=Akumajou

Wrong resizing shots






Thanks guys for the attention!!!
Cheers,
Cospefogo.



Hey Nes6502,
What do you think about Vood's thoughts?

QUOTE

I took a look, and though it says it supports 320x200/240 I think maybe is not what we want as the resolution charts info shows 320x240 Pixel double set. I´m not sure about what it means.

Anyway, I think there´s is an alternative hardware solution.

1.- Set the screen size to 2x the original console resolution
2.- Set Xbox resolution to 640x480p
3.- Use a hardware scan divider so the 31khz refresh is divided into 15khz by descarting half of the information, and then resulting in 640x240p which in case or using point filtering would output exactly the same video output as the original console (even real scanlines tongue.gif)

The problem, is, I have no idea about how to build an scan divider. But I´m pretty sure it is possible.

Source:
http://forums.xbox-s...hlight=Akumajou

Conexant Video Encoder

C.