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[Cospefogo]

Gentlemen,

Since I bought my Xbox and tried the wonderful Xport emulators
(and others of course) I was haunted by a horrible nightmare...
The blur effect on every single pixel on screen even with graphic
filters turned off.

I did plug my real Famicom to the TV, and played Castlevania 3.
After it, played the same on Xbox. The thing was not the same.
It was almost, but the blur suavization ever bothered me.

If you are one of those guys who wants the best fidelity to the
original emulated console, try this stuff I am going to suggest below.

Thanks to some guys here form this community, I did
update my emulators versions (evertyhing was old because
I was running from DVD all the time) directly into the Xbox HD
and got inside the new emulators versions, the little toy called
FLICKERING FILTER option, inside the video config area.

So let's go:

1. Using your MdnafenX_PCE open Super Star Soldier rom.

2. Play it using your filters, with flickering set to 5, soften screen, well
use you regular way of playing roms.

3. Now, set the Flickering filter to ZERO, turn off the soften,
turn off all filters, put Xbox hardware filter in POINT FILTERING.

4. Open your Super Star Soldier again. You will notice that everything
"flickers" on the screen, backgrounds are rendring weird, etc etc.
Can you see the difference? But keep on, we are not done yet...

5. To correct this, and get the resolution to very, very very near
to the original PCE screen, do the following now:

- Go Set Game Screen Size/Position on the video config menu
- Position your screen on X-60 and Y-8
- Put the screen width as 510 and height as 462

It's done. No damaged graphics, no damaged scrolling, no damaged sprites,
and no BLUR AT ALL!! Sharpen pixels! Of course, a little of flickering
can occur on some games, but not that will disturb your game play.

For MednafenX_Nes, NeoGenesis and MekaX, use this:
X-60, Y-18, 510x446 (Which is a double size of NES 256x224 screen minus 2 pixels
on width and height... don't ask me why. It only works this way! If you use
512x448 you will have bad rendering and distorted sharpen backgrounds.)

Remember, to put the Flickering filter in Zero, hardware in Point Filtering and no Soften filters.
I hope that this could be useful for some other person
like me who enjoy The "Old Skool no-bluuur..."

Regards,
Cospefogo.

This post has been edited by Cospefogo: Apr 30 2006, 08:49 PM

[Hyllian]

Hi,

       I figured it out last week, but only tried neogenesis. In my tests I've found that neogenesis is better using 638x446. It's because the original resolution of it is 320x224, so 2*X-2 and 2*Y-2 is equal to 638x446. And the pixels are perfect on both scrollings.

[Cospefogo]

Opa Hyllian!

Thanks for your information about the MegaDrive screen.
You are really right! After few more tests I got my definitive
screen numbers. Here they are:

For MednafenX Nes:
- Flicker Zero
- Point Filtering
- Image filters OFF
- 510x446 (256*2-2 x 224*2-2)

For MednafenX Pce:
- Flicker Zero
- Point Filtering
- Image filters OFF
- 638x462 (320*2-2 x 232*2-2)

For Neogenesis:
- Flicker Zero
- Point Filtering
- Image filters OFF
- 638x446 (320*2-2 x 224*2-2)

I have been trying to find the numbers for MekaX but got nothing good yet.
The image is garbled and pixels distorted. What about you guys?

Long live to the old-skool pixelated screens!
Cospefogo.

[Chron Johnson]

This is what I've been waiting for...it's the -2 thing that's always thrown me.  And who would have guessed Point Filtering did something?  Glad to see you hunkered down and investigated.  I think we need a nice list of systems' native resolutions then it's all downhill from there.  Box art is more easily readable with zero flicker filter and point filtering, for those into such things.  Gives me inspiration to resize my screenshot window to fit the boxes.

Edit: Sega Master System

# Graphics: VDP (Video Display Processor) derived from Texas Instruments TMS9918

    * Up to 32 simultaneous colors available (16 for sprites, 16 for background) from a palette of 64 (can also show 64 simultaneous colors using programming tricks)
    * Screen resolutions 256x192 and 256x224. PAL/SECAM also supports 256x240
    * 8x8 pixel characters, max 488 (due to VRAM space limitation)
    * 8x8 or 8x16 pixel sprites, max 64
    * Horizontal, diagonal, vertical, and partial screen scrolling



This post has been edited by Chron Johnson: May 1 2006, 04:05 AM

[Hyllian]

So, following the same logic for master system:

256*2-2 = 510
192*2-2 = 382

510x382

xSnes9x doesn't show the resolution when you're adjusting the screen. So, It's a bit hard to find the ideal res.

[Cospefogo]

QUOTE(Hyllian @ May 1 2006, 12:14 AM)

So, following the same logic for master system:

256*2-2 = 510
192*2-2 = 382

510x382

xSnes9x doesn't show the resolution when you're adjusting the screen. So, It's a bit hard to find the ideal res.

Thanks Hyllian!
Yes, let's just follow the same logic.
And yes, xSnes9x does not show the resolution information.
I really pray for this feature to be present on the next releases of ZsnesXbox.

And Chron, thanks (again!   ) for the Master System info.
I was about to get in google to hunt for it.

Regards, guys!
It's very nice to know that there are other dudes
out there who love the oldskool at its maximum!

Cospefogo.

[Foe-hammer]

The same could also be done when using HDTV's or computer monitors in HD 720p.  All that would need to be done is multiply it by a larger number....say x3 or x4.

The only problem is that using these set pixel ratios is it will be impossible to fill an entire screen.  So there will be black bars surround the entire image.

[Cospefogo]

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ May 1 2006, 06:36 AM)

The same could also be done when using HDTV's or computer monitors in HD 720p.  All that would need to be done is multiply it by a larger number....say x3 or x4.

The only problem is that using these set pixel ratios is it will be impossible to fill an entire screen.  So there will be black bars surround the entire image.

Hi!

About the black bars --- do you mean in HDTV's or monitors in HD 720p?
Because in my old regular television, only NES has black bars on right and left sides,
because the screen wisth for 2X is 510 (to fill my TV width I need at least 590).

Neogenesis and MednafenX PCE are set on 638 x Y, what fill full horizontally
my TV screen.

Cospefogo.

[Hyllian]

My display is a SDTV, so the flicker filtering is useless. I was used to use Linear Filtering instead of Point Filtering, because the former get rid of the flickering and the laster doesn't. I don't know if it occurs for all SDTVs. Using Linear Filtering I can resize the image to fill all the screen and there's no signs of flickering. The disadvantage is that it looks a bit blurred.

This post has been edited by Hyllian: May 1 2006, 01:47 PM

[Chron Johnson]

What's the deal with my supposedly standard CRT TV and my v1.6 XBox?  NeoGenesis and MednafenX-PCE have about 10 or 20 spare pixels horizontally...like my TV isn't wide enough to take 638 horizontal pixels?  That can't be right...is it because it's one of those nonsense "flat screen" picture tubes?  Do they black out pixels on either side to try to fool me into thinking I have a "flat" tv...or is this related to 1.6's overscan problem, in Linux for example.  Or is everyone's TV too narrow? (doubt it)

Also, I get some pretty heavy moire stuff going on with these settings and Point filtering sometimes...if it's too harsh on the eyes, bilinear filtering at perfectly scaled resolution with zero flicker filter looks pretty pixel-perfect too.

[Cospefogo]

QUOTE(Chron Johnson @ May 1 2006, 06:26 PM)

What's the deal with my supposedly standard CRT TV and my v1.6 XBox?  NeoGenesis and MednafenX-PCE have about 10 or 20 spare pixels horizontally...like my TV isn't wide enough to take 638 horizontal pixels?  That can't be right...is it because it's one of those nonsense "flat screen" picture tubes?  Do they black out pixels on either side to try to fool me into thinking I have a "flat" tv...or is this related to 1.6's overscan problem, in Linux for example.  Or is everyone's TV too narrow? (doubt it)

Also, I get some pretty heavy moire stuff going on with these settings and Point filtering sometimes...if it's too harsh on the eyes, bilinear filtering at perfectly scaled resolution with zero flicker filter looks pretty pixel-perfect too.

Well Chron,

Matter of fact I use also a standard CRT television, a 15'' flatron screen from LG
and I do connect my Xbox using the traditional retail AV cable.

My TV screen is NARROW too!
But, there are a lot of pixels on left and right sides of the screen
who are a "dead game area". I mean, something that actually CAN BE
outside the TV margins without causing any loss on the gameplay.

For example, open Samurais Showdown for Genesis. Align your
and your foe energy's bars to fit exaclty inside your television,
and you will see it will work. On Sonic 1, align the SCORE info very very
near to the left margin of tv screen, and you will see that the game
will keep looking great.

For me, using a old CRT on the most basic screen, this is the only
solution... I think.
(c:

I am super happy with that!

Cospefogo.

[Foe-hammer]

If playing on a pc monitor or HDTV flicker filter is not even an issue.  The best setting for such is hardware 'point filter', and software 'super 2x sai'.  The image is sharp without any blurring, but not so jaggifuly pixelated that it is without any software filters.  When veiwing in high resolutions it is necessary to have some software filtering, because each pixel is EXTREMELY noticable.....more so then one would ever notice with no filters on on a regular 480i TV.

[Chron Johnson]

Yeah I knew as a kid that there was stuff going on just beyond my purview.  Knew it.  Sonic 1 was actually the ROM I used to configure my NeoGenesis screen, so I was happy to see everything look right...but until now I had some suspicion I was getting "ripped off".  Heh.  Have you tried Super Mario Bros 3 with these settings?  Mine has a nast area on the left side of the screen suggesting it wants shrinkage.

This post has been edited by Chron Johnson: May 2 2006, 01:26 AM

[Jonesy_47]

This is what i always do. I set and lock the supposed actual aspect ratio and then size it until i can see everything of importance (i do the sonic score/1-up alignment too). The aspect ratios never seemed off, even on nintendo (which i always used to have a hard time setting up correctly without some games looking sweet while others looked raped).

[Hyllian]

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ May 2 2006, 01:04 AM)

If playing on a pc monitor or HDTV flicker filter is not even an issue.  The best setting for such is hardware 'point filter', and software 'super 2x sai'.  The image is sharp without any blurring, but not so jaggifuly pixelated that it is without any software filters.  When veiwing in high resolutions it is necessary to have some software filtering, because each pixel is EXTREMELY noticable.....more so then one would ever notice with no filters on on a regular 480i TV.

The problem with Super 2xsai is that it deforms the game fonts and some other details. Choose Final Fantasy VI for example, set Super 2xsai and play until the first dialog window, then pay atention to the game fonts. Run again, but now use HQ2x and see the fonts. HQ2x is much better. There are only two ways to not deform the game fonts, firt is using HQ2x and the second is not using any filter.