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Author Topic: Opinions On Pal & Ntsc  (Read 227 times)

GogoAckman

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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2004, 11:51:00 AM »

QUOTE (ScHlAuChi @ May 20 2004, 08:16 PM)
@GogoAckman

Highly unlikely that SVideo looks better than RGB cable.

Read this:
http://www.ps2home.co.uk/tv.htm

just test it, svideo looks much clearer and better than scart RGB (who is better than composite, for sure).And without loss of colour (compare composite - RGB if you d ont h ave svideo, you will see the loss I am speaking of).
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Gus Man

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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2004, 12:20:00 PM »

Is Component better than RGB Scart?

EDIT: Since I use composite, does it get rid of NTSC/PAL issues?
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Sauron-Jin

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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2004, 12:37:00 PM »

QUOTE (GogoAckman @ May 20 2004, 07:14 AM)
nope it depends of television, most recent tvs do resize the size onNTSC, only old tvs have black boerders on NTSC, not all TVs support NTSC even with an rgb cable and nearly all new television support ntsc (size and color) without a RGB cable  laugh.gif .

As said, the difference is resolution and refresh rate, and the standard is our (PAL)  tongue.gif .
By the way, when I can, I buy an NTSC console or switch to ntsc (thx xbox), most of PAL games dont support PAL60 (even in xbox) and the speed difference is sensibly noticeable biggrin.gif , so NTSC for me  jester.gif .

Wrong, i was talking for people who has a PAL TV, not a Multisystem TV, if you have a multisystem TV you dont have to worry about this stuff as i have already said in my previous post. of course black borders doesn't appear on multisystem TV's  laugh.gif, and not all cheap TV's are multisystem, only TV's from quality manufacturers (Sony, Phillips, etc...) and some Jap imported models, that make them multisystem to avoid costs in manufacturing and stock redirection between regions. All less than 12 years old TV's supports PAL60 (i only speak for my country at least)

Wrong again, all pal games i have tried, and they aren't a few, supports PAL60 when you select this mode from dashboard. my TV on screen display states this and i myself notice that. so i prefer PAL games because i can play them in 60hz and 720x576

If i had a PS2, I probably would consider using NTSC games on it.
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Sauron-Jin

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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2004, 01:01:00 PM »

QUOTE (tamper @ May 20 2004, 08:12 PM)

I've found that some NTSC games only work properly in NTSC (007:EON for example). They work slightly better in PAL-60, but sometimes not at all in PAL-50. Most NTSC games with FMV seem also to lose A/V sync in PAL-50.

This is true, i'll take Ninja Gaiden NTSC for example:

There are games in both regions that incorporate the code to run in the other region, when you use a debug bios based one (xecuter, evox, etc...) you allow the game to run using the code implemented for the other region, so you can play NTSC games on a PAL running console and viceversa, but some times this code to run in the other region is not finished or complete, and the movies are not encoded at the correct framerate to stay synchronized to the TV standard of the other region, the results of this may vary.

Some games shows slowdowns, other serious tearing effects, and other simply doesn't work.

In my example, Ninja Gaiden NTSC running on PAL console, the result is that the game forces the console to output 50Hz, i think because it hasn't implemented the code for PAL60, the gameplay is a little slower than normal, the movies are jerky and lost sync with gamepad rumble, some subtitles in movies are skipped too.

---------------

To clarify thinks about different cables setups:

Composite Video: three color signals + TV sync signal in the same cable and GND (2 cables).

S-Video: Luminance and chrominance, both with embeded TV sync signal, splitted into two cables with their corresponding GND (4 cables)

RGB (Scart or RCA's): Three independant color signals with sync and their corresponding GND (6 cables)

RGB gives the best quality as it prevents "color bleeding" and keeps the original quality of the colors, it is also cheap and easy to build for everyone, and the most of TV's support this standard. S-Video is the next in the ranking, suffers from a little "color bleeding" but has good contrast and color brightness, is the most difficult to build and is the less supported by TV systems. Composite Video is the worst in quality terms, serious "color bleeding" and standard brightness/contrast quality, but it is the cheapest and the most easy to implement.

The quality you may experience with your TV may be contradictory of what i have said, this is because it depends of how your tv is able to manage the different signals, for example, the TV i'm using to watch my xbox doesn't support S-Video signal, does support RGB but set the brightness too high forcing me to put the brightness down in the TV config. Composite behaves normal, so it may appear that composite gives better quality on this TV, but once you have set up the correct brigtness, you realize that RGB gives much better quality (but all the other channels look too dark), in the case of my other three small TV's, only one of them supports S-Video signal, and all of them supports RGB and composite without any kind of glitch (but they are small sad.gif )

Don't be stupid, do not pay more than $15 for a RGB cable they are not affected in any noticeabily way by poor quality materials (except in extreme cases) as they share the same principles of composite video signal, even they are less affected by long distances than composite.

Hope this will help you.

Cheers  beerchug.gif
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Sauron-Jin

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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2004, 01:27:00 PM »

QUOTE (ScHlAuChi @ May 20 2004, 10:15 PM)
I have Ninja Gaiden NTSC too - works flawless
What u need is the Enigmah VideoModeSelector (get it from the usual places)
With it you can set your Xbox to NTSC and the game will work flawless

I already know that, I only was trying to put an example of what ocurrs when you put this game on a pal console without using any region changer program.

Now i have my own copy of Ninja Gaiden PAL, uncensored, at higher res than the NTSC one, and in my mother language.  muhaha.gif


cheers! beerchug.gif
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Gus Man

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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2004, 03:26:00 PM »

QUOTE
component is below Svideo quality wise.


NO, Composite is below Svideo, component is the the RGB colored cables that carry luminance and color difference.  I beleive component is better than RGB scart.
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Prican24

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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2004, 05:02:00 PM »

rf adapters are the lower then composite.

now i'm from usa so rgb has no use to me but component cables bring out the best picture as is and also if you got a hdtv to put it in 480p or higher and the picture gets better.

s-video comes right below it in terms of picture quality
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XDelusion

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« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2004, 06:42:00 PM »

I can't afford anything beyond your standard S-Video hook up. Maybe in 10 years I'll migrate.
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Gus Man

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« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2004, 08:41:00 PM »

QUOTE
s-video comes right below it in terms of picture quality


Prican knows what he is talking about, component is the US answer to RGB but it uses less bandwidth, so no, your wrong.
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Sauron-Jin

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« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2004, 06:04:00 AM »

laugh.gif

So the correct names here are:

- Component RGB cable...
- Component YPbPr cable...

QUOTE

component is the US answer to RGB but it uses less bandwidth


RGB IS component connection, RGB exist all over the world (even in the USA)tongue.gif if you are refering to YPbPr when you say "component", it exist all over the world too, but PAL xboxes have it capped from launch time.

QUOTE

component is better than RGB scart


As i said RGB IS component, if you are refering to Component YPbPr, then, yes it is much better than RGB, but requieres an expensive HDTV to work, and only works on NTSC consoles, for people without a HDTV, RGB gives the max quality they could ever get from their console.

Cheers beerchug.gif
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Cathesdus

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« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2004, 08:12:00 AM »

tongue.gif.  Anyways, I have noticed that some emulators actually don't TRULY support PAL60 on an NTSC TV.  Meaning, for instance, I have a PAL version of F Zero and I use the emu xsnes9x.  Even though the emu knows the game is PAL, it still runs it at 60hz, which makes the game run way too damn fast for enjoyment.  It's a lot like playing need for spped underground but with crappy graphics.  Anyways, since I seemed to have turned this into a dual topic, also, I really do feel bad for you in the UK, $5.xx for gas is what it biold down to?  God knows but I believe the UK is a *richer* country I guess you could say.  For instance, what does minimum wage boil down to in the UK?
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