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Author Topic: Opinions On Pal & Ntsc  (Read 226 times)

Cathesdus

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Opinions On Pal & Ntsc
« on: May 19, 2004, 11:22:00 AM »

Lately I've had this big question on my mind.  First off, lets explain what PAL and NTSC differences are to the n00bies out there.  PAL games refresh the screen at 50mhz and NTSC games refresh at 60mhz.  What does this mean?  It means that PAL games don't refresh things on the screen as often, meaning they require less power to run things.  This really has no advantages to them because they're XBOX's are mae to refresh slower than my NTSC box, whereas using emulators, I can EASILY run pal games no problem.  But here are my questions to you PAL and NTSC people:

NTSC People - When you download a PAL rom, do you get pissed our do you not care?

PAL People - When you download an NTSC rom, do you get pissed our do you not care?

I know that every time I download a rom and find out that it's PAL I'm like damnit Europe, why the hell did you have to be different and then I realize that it's not them that's different, it's my capitalist country USA!  Woohoo!  BTW, where I live, gas prices for premium are $2.13 a gallon!  Know why it's so high?  Because we're fighting a war nobody wants to be in!

Sorry...I got a little sidetracked but anyways respond to the questions above.
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VampX

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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2004, 11:40:00 AM »

Pal Person here, and i simply dont care.

the only reason why i prefer NTSC to PAL is because of the romhacks & Savegames that are mostly in NTSC format.

Other then that i truly dont see why anyone would get pissed of downloading PAL stuff.

reminds me of the people i see on the newsgroup where i download mah wrestling stuff, whenever someone posts PAL video's their all like "3YE N33D TEH NtsC!!@##@@#"

Seriously, buy a new TV damn cheapskates.

ok i'll stop ranting now ph34r.gif
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Sauron-Jin

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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2004, 07:56:00 PM »

Well, in the case of emulators doesn't matter really much if you are using pal or ntsc rom, because the emulator is managing the color carrier and screen resolution according to your console configuration. the only problem there would be on PAL systems using a cheap-old-shitty-PAL-TV which doesn't support PAL60 and playing a NTSC rom, then the emulator will be trying to output 60fps and the tv only refreshes at 50hz so game frames lost sync with TV scan and some "tearing" effect is shown (not really a big problem).

When reffering to import native games for xbox (or other console) this isn's as simple, PAL standard is 50Hz 720x576, and NTSC is 60Hz 720x480, and the frequency of the color carrier is different between them. Here in my country at last (Spain) i have yet to see a TV which doesn't support PAL60 (60Hz, 720x576, PAL color carrier), this mode have the best of PAL and NTSC, and it is selectable in MSdashboard and all PAL games support this mode. In the case of PS2 and other consoles, the support of PAL60 mode depends of the game itself, but the most important titles does suport this mode.

Having said this, when a guy with a PAL console on a PAL TV runs a NTSC only game, he only have to use a RGB cable in order to correct the different color carrier of the NTSC standard, and the game will work for sure, because NTSC resolution is lower and screen refresh is the same as PAL60.

When a guy with a NTSC console and NTSC TV is trying to run a PAL only game, he mostly is screwed, PAL refresh rate is lower or the same of NTSC, color carrier is correctible using a RGB cable, but Screen Resolution of the PAL game is higher than the NTSC TV supports. he must use a Multisystem TV, wich are very difficult to find in NTSC countries, if he wants to play his imported game.

Note: the examples above are assuming the games are only able to run on it's intended TV standard so they force you to use a utility to change the TV standard of your xbox console to match the game.

I hope this helps to clarify your doubts about the differences between these TV standards when refering to emulation and native games, and plz excuse my english faults wink.gif

Cheers! beerchug.gif
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Sauron-Jin

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Opinions On Pal & Ntsc
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2004, 08:14:00 PM »

QUOTE (stezo2k @ May 19 2004, 10:10 PM)
With import games, then yes i do get annoyed when some games insist they run in NTSC, my Tv runs NTSC, but the picture quality is nowhere near as good, i'll get a scart lead when i get a chance, trouble is i usually get borders with my ps2 scart.

You will always get those black borders, because NTSC games are lower resolution than PAL standard, so the image take less space on PAL screen, no mater what A/V cable you use. this problem is mostly related to PS2, the xbox auto-scales the image to fill the entire screen.
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GogoAckman

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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2004, 10:14:00 PM »

QUOTE (Sauron-Jin @ May 20 2004, 05:14 AM)
You will always get those black borders, because NTSC games are lower resolution than PAL standard, so the image take less space on PAL screen, no mater what A/V cable you use. this problem is mostly related to PS2, the xbox auto-scales the image to fill the entire screen.

nope it depends of television, most recent tvs do resize the size onNTSC, only old tvs have black boerders on NTSC, not all TVs support NTSC even with an rgb cable and nearly all new television support ntsc (size and color) without a RGB cable  laugh.gif .

As said, the difference is resolution and refresh rate, and the standard is our (PAL)  tongue.gif .
By the way, when I can, I buy an NTSC console or switch to ntsc (thx xbox), most of PAL games dont support PAL60 (even in xbox) and the speed difference is sensibly noticeable biggrin.gif , so NTSC for me  jester.gif .
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XDelusion

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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2004, 11:27:00 PM »

I'm in America, and grew up on an Amiga which had a software base made in Germany, Poland and the like...

...I'm quite adjusted to running PAL apps and games. I don't even notice these things anymore at this point. smile.gif





As for gas...

...natural fuel would be great, but the damn jackass and the elephant are too busy paying each other for hand jobs to allow such a simple move...

...BAN fossil fule, give third world countries a working and pay standard when manufacturing goods for US companies, and only use weapons in defence...

...we lost a few thousand people because of a terrorist attack from some random Afganian in Florida, who was funded by Usama, an invester in the American market.

So why are we bomning Iraq? Oh because they have the oil (and peraps more to our interest) and there dictator tried to kill daddy when he was president.
Humanitarian act my ass.

I guess Repubilcans and Democrats are like PAL and NTSC, I can't tell the difference. Republicrats. I'd rather be me, and keep things simple, use commen sence, and NEVER be ignorant enough to pray to an idea of a messiah that would NEVER bomb a soul. Jesus might have gone a little ballistic in the temples, but he'd never hurt a fly according to the stories I've read about him.
I wonder what Bible Bush and his blind sheep are refering to?
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stevie_mac

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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2004, 11:39:00 PM »

QUOTE (Cathesdus @ May 19 2004, 08:22 PM)
BTW, where I live, gas prices for premium are $2.13 a gallon!  Know why it's so high?  Because we're fighting a war nobody wants to be in!

blink.gif

UK
1 Litre = £0.81 (Approx $1.44)
1 UK Gallon = 4.54609 Litres
1 US Gallon = 3.785 Litres

1 UK Gallon = (0.81 * 4.54609) = £3.6823329
1 US Gallon = (0.81 * 3.785) = £3.06627860583 = Approx $5.46625


For 1 US Gallon, UK pays $5.46625

thats $3.33625 more than you.


Man, time to leave the UK me thinks!

Any how, we all know the governments are sitting on perpetual motion and forcing scientists to say its imposible!  laugh.gif



BTW - Either is good! NTSC / PAL. Both look great on me PLASMA HDTV - so I'm with VampX
QUOTE
Seriously, buy a new TV damn cheapskates.



(hope i got me sums right - or i'll look an even bigger fool!)   wink.gif
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XDelusion

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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2004, 12:58:00 AM »

Looks like we're all screwed. There's always someone who's not happy with 2 Mill in there pocket, or who for some reason, feel it neccessary to fuck the brother man over. Unable to look around him and see what a mind blowing situation reality actually is, only to obsess over what man has created and man can "own".

Who ever said alternative fuels to the publook, and gets away with it, makes the public look like a bunch of dumb ass wipes.
It's like George Carlin said when I saw him in concert," fuck the public". It's the public who keeps voting the Harvard/Yale skulls members over and over, as opposed to one of the other 30 or so people running independantly, the working class man. Either that, or they don't vote at all which is plain dumb, democracy works, but the reason it isn't working is:

A: Most voters have short attention spans, mostly developed from a fast paced, drastically changing, rapidly growing enviroment, one which replaces the Earth with Concrete, gives you a "job status", "healthy enviroments", humanitarian actoins... images, catch frases, opinions, random bits of information, too much to keep up with, only  matched with an even more impossible speed, all constantly fed to us through  TV, Radio, and Clip Notes from the Republicrat, biased, censored news papers. A person who can not concentrate and focus on the simple facts for more than a day or two, need personal re-schooling for simple logic, and of course a sort of rehab for governmental drug attics...
...much of society. There is also too much of a literally mid-evil Orthodoxed Kristian influence in our modern society as well. Rome is not dead, it's just had a "make over" and now plays the role of an entertainer rather than a punisher, though we still like a good mass toture from time to time.

B: Even after all the votes are in, they can still go against the people's popular choice, and elect the other guy. It's true look it up!

C: Votes might be going electronic, as if matters could get worse.

D: There is not and option to vote "No Confidence" for the canidates to make SURE they don't run again next year!

E: Some people don't vote, because they don't care enough to take advantage of the Democracy we live in, or they feel that they can't make a change, or they are lazy.





And now the herbal tea wink.gif  is catching up to me, I'll cut off here. Night.
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GogoAckman

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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2004, 01:12:00 AM »

QUOTE (stezo2k @ May 20 2004, 09:37 AM)
cheers for that info, i'll probably buy a xbox scart lead then smile.gif

as for the Ps2, since ive got the scart for it, i get borders on every game, especially big borders pal games, it only happens on my tv though, every other tv plays all full screen.

Shame really because my standard ps2 lead plays ntsc and pal full screen, but the picture isn't nowhere as crisp on ntsc games.

I just hope this doesn't happen on my xbox, else i'll probably end up getting a new tv to use NTSC games at high quality

you just have a bad scart cable, there is one wire that tells the tv to set on 16/9 mode, I had the same thing, just cut that damn wire biggrin.gif.
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ScHlAuChi

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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2004, 06:14:00 AM »

I prefer PAL (PAL60) for being able to play PAL & NTSC stuff without a prob. Also we get  the best picture quality due to SCART RGB-input, even better than the S-Video stuff.
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jizzlobber

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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2004, 06:54:00 AM »

QUOTE (GogoAckman @ May 20 2004, 06:14 AM)
By the way, when I can, I buy an NTSC console or switch to ntsc (thx xbox), most of PAL games dont support PAL60 (even in xbox) and the speed difference is sensibly noticeable biggrin.gif , so NTSC for me  jester.gif .

most xbox games DO support PAL60

I like PAL because- colours are more vibrant, NTSC is washed out in comparison, anyone with a PAL TV should switch between PAL and NTSC on their xbox to see what I mean... PAL is higher res at 50hz, id a game is optimised for 50hz it looks awesome although there's slightly less frames (not noticeable).

years ago NTSC was better because the games PAL games always suffered a loss in speed, xbox games generally support PAL and it's much better.

oh and PAL PS2 games with 60hz option are NOT PAL! the option simply switches it to NTSC... even tekken4 which said on the box PAL60 is NTSC in 60hz mode, PS2 isn't capable of PAL60.

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desertboy

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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2004, 10:01:00 AM »

QUOTE (jizzlobber @ May 20 2004, 03:54 PM)
most xbox games DO support PAL60

I like PAL because- colours are more vibrant, NTSC is washed out in comparison, anyone with a PAL TV should switch between PAL and NTSC on their xbox to see what I mean... PAL is higher res at 50hz, id a game is optimised for 50hz it looks awesome although there's slightly less frames (not noticeable).



Never the same colour NTSC


As for speed issue compare Wipeout 2097 Pal version to NTSC and you'll notice they run at the same speed. (Higher framerate on NTSC but 1 sec of game time takes you around exactly the same ammount of course) most games companies could never be bothered to optimise their games for the Pal market.

(Wipeout 2097 was programmed in Liverpool UK.)
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GogoAckman

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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2004, 10:35:00 AM »

biggrin.gif , and for the scart thing, I have scart rgb cable and s-video cable, svideo looks way better biggrin.gif with full coulours (while scart have a little too white image (I don t know how to say "un voile sur l image" biggrin.gif)).
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tamper

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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2004, 11:12:00 AM »

QUOTE
Having said this, when a guy with a PAL console on a PAL TV runs a NTSC only game, he only have to use a RGB cable in order to correct the different color carrier of the NTSC standard, and the game will work for sure, because NTSC resolution is lower and screen refresh is the same as PAL60.


I'm not sure this is always true for import XBox games. I've found that some NTSC games only work properly in NTSC (007:EON for example). They work slightly better in PAL-60, but sometimes not at all in PAL-50. Most NTSC games with FMV seem also to lose A/V sync in PAL-50.

As for emulators, I can't say I've ever really bothered to notice whether a ROM is NTSC or PAL, as the emulator makes it all transparent. And until recently, I was running my Xbox through the RF input of a TV so old and shitty it had manual tuning!

t

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ScHlAuChi

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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2004, 11:16:00 AM »

@GogoAckman

Highly unlikely that SVideo looks better than RGB cable.

Read this:
http://www.ps2home.co.uk/tv.htm
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